WAW on suicide watch, what now???

[MHL]

I have been reading threads here now for a couple of weeks trying to see if my sitch fits any others. Mine has taken an unusual turn and need guidance as to what to do next.

You can read my thread below, which I just posted in the newcomers section but have been hanging here b/c the posts are more relevant. In short I discovered my WAW second ongoing affair about 2 weeks ago, we are separated and I was trying the LR technique but let her have it when I found out. She promised on Oct 15 that we would not date during separation. I was mad for 2 days then went back to LR and was nice when we would see each other at kid exchange and nice via text, email. I contacted OM’s W (they are separated also, 4 months) OM dropped the bomb on her, EA only, on their 21 anniversary. I met OM’s W 4 days later and told her that my W and her H were definitely having a PA, she was devastated, but not very motivated to work on or save her M. I bought OM’s W a copy of DR and told her she could save her M. On Nov 19 she caught them in the act, walked into the house and confronted them in the bed and even got pics. Said my W never showed her face and let them have it for 10 – 15 minutes. OM’s W called me next morning, Nov 20 to let me know what happened. My W supposedly cut it off with OM that morning and sent me a text, “you win”, we have not spoken in a 8 days prior to that text. In keeping with LR technique, I did not respond even though I knew what was going on, my W did not know that I knew what happened the night before. Later that day my MIL called me saying that W had left a bunch of suicide notes at work and that a friend from W’s work was taking her to meet my W’s sister to take her to the hospital to have her admitted to psych ward. I am not on good terms with SIL but talk to MIL daily and she is on my side. I do not know the content of the notes and neither does MIL.

There will be a family meeting with the doctor at hospital, I evidently am not part of the family, the meeting will be SIL, MIL and W’s aunt. FIL is deceased. If W is released I am not sure what I should do. Obviously if she contacts me I will proceed with caution. Our IC’s are involved but have not helped the M at all. They believe in “fixing the individual” first then the M. Meanwhile our family and M have disintegrated. D13 is fully aware of everything unfortunately but she is very mature for her age, but hates her mother ( I am trying to deal with it separately ) , S9 is obviously affected, I am trying to shield him as much as possible.

Should I reach out if and when she gets out or keep up the no contact, or limited contact and only keep it to the kids, money etc. I truly don’t know how I should handle this, I still love her and I would work on the M if she was willing.

[sandi2]

It is confusing when you have more than one thread going. Would be helpful if you decided which one you wanted to keep. We pretty much scan all the forums, so it will be found.

Should I reach out if and when she gets out or keep up the no contact, or limited contact and only keep it to the kids, money etc. I truly don’t know how I should handle this, I still love her and I would work on the M if she was willing.

It is unfortunate about your W, but let her family deal with it since you were not invited in on the sessions. Whenever there is a S, that is usually how it is seen by the W's family (in many cases).

You may get different opinions on reaching out to her when she gets out of the hospital, but IMHO I think you should wait for her to contact you and see what she has to say. You must be careful and take it very slowly.

I hope you will understand what I am about to say. We are not to take suiside lightly, however, I get suspicious whenever you say that "several" notes were left at the office. That means she wanted somebody to find them. Red flags immediately go up to me b/c it sounds as if she is using that as a gimmick to either get your sympathy and for you to start kissing her a$$.........or she is trying to get her mother, sister, etc. attention so they won't be so hard on her. Do you see what I mean? This would not be the first time this sort of thing has been done.

So remain strong in spite of her being in the hospital. I would suggest that you do not send flowers b/c if this is a gimmick to "work" you or her family in her favor, then she must see that it is not the correct work she needs to be doing. Has she ever done this sort of drama before? People who stoop to this type of drama has to realize it doesn't work to get their way. If it is legit then let her doctor take care of it. After all, she should be too upset to see you now anyway.......right?

Yes, I know you still love her and what I suggest may sound cold hearted to you, but I'm not a cold hearted person. I have been around long enough to see many other couples like you. I have seen men just like you. My H being one of them. I have seen women like your W (even though I've not gotten a full picture of her yet). I bet you are a good man. Do you consider yourself as a "good guy"?

I don't think it would hurt to call your MIL to see how your W is doing. She will tell your W that you called, but it won't be the same as calling your W. When you talk to your MIL, don't get bogged down in talking about the MR with her. Just ask her if she can share what the doctor's prognosis is about your W. If MIL can't, then tell her to let you know if anything changes. Be warm but don't get into long conversations. Remember that she will probably quote you word for word when she sees your W. Don't tell your MIL how much you love your wife and get all emotional, but if MIL comes out and asks you how you feel, then you can tell her that you do not want a D and still want to work on the M. That is all that necessary. You can rest assured that she'll tell your W what you said.

Again, I can't stress enough how important it is for you to show strength at this time. I know it's hard. If the doctor should think you need to go see your W, then do that, but continue to show a calm spirit of strength & honor.

There is one thing to consider. Her suicide notes may not have anything to do with the condition of her MR. Whenever a person threatens suicide it is b/c they have their minds on themselves and their problems, desires, etc. They aren't thinking about their children, parents, spouse's best interest. It could be that the OM was not doing what she wanted and this was her ploy to get "his" attention. Be careful.

[MHL]

Sandi2,
Sorry about the multiple threads, I am new to online forums and thought that I need to put my sitch there first. Also I have read your responses to other members concerning WAW and what it takes for LBH to be attractive again to WAW, the posts were invaluable, thanks.

I actually agree with you on her wanting attention from someone, OM,me, family, friends, etc. I am okay with not contacting her or trying to read anything into her actions, and I won't be sending any notes, flowers, etc. I still love and care about her but am committed to sticking with the LRT. The feeling of missing her has diminished significantly for me, I would say that I am missing my partner in life. I have the kids and all the responsibilities all on me which IMO i am not doing a bad job, it is my driving force and I have the mindset that I can accomplish more w/o her.

After I kicked her out she/we started seeing Christian C, paid for by our church. We only did IC no JC which I still think was a mistake. Her C only got 1 side of the story and I could tell that when we did have a JC session, her C had a very poor view of me, and was very condiscending when she spoke to me. Her C diagnosed my W as codependent on relationships, ie she needs others to fill her love tank and when i stopped filling her tank she sought that attention elsewhere. I think her C really incouraged her to remain as independent as possible and detach from me further. I think my W took that opportunity to go on the hunt to fill that need again. And yes I think she is in a serious MLC. She started losing weight about 18 months ago and at the point of the first A, she actually looked better than when were originally married. I think she was tired of the responsibilities of raising a family, money , soccer, cooking etc. and the M was on the back burner for sure.

MIL has been very supportive of me, infact over the last 5 weeks my W did not call her b/c MIL was telling her how bad she was messing up her life, family, etc. Anyone that told my W that she was making mistakes, she just cut off all contact. I will not contact MIL too much and will keep it to a minimum and let her know that I don't want a D and want to still work on the M.

My hope is that this is the first stage of remorse for my W, but I will proceed with caution. On a final note I did give my C the boot today. Since starting with them the M has gotten worse not better.

[sandi2]

It's okay about the posts.....just want to try and keep up with your stitch. Anyway, you do a good job in explaining things.

Your W certainly has some type of crises and it sounds as if the married w/children was getting a bit much for her. Losing a good deal of weight has a strong effect on some women. Is she dressing kind of sexy and trying to act younger? That is usually a sign of MLC. Wanting to go back and redo one's life.....like returning to the dating years....that's a big issue and why lots of A's happen. It's not an "excuse" but may explain some of it....if in deed she is in MLC. Some people don't believe in it.

Keeping your conact with MIL down to a minimum is probably wise b/c your W will resent you and her mother. Anyone who is on your side of this stitch will be resented by her. And, FWITW, having her family in your corner doesn't hurt....but it doesn't really help as much as you might originally think. They may try to talk sense into her, but in a way....it is like they are "pursuing" her or pushing her into going back to you, and that's not good. I've been there and I know. She must make this decision on her own and not be talked into it by you or her parents or any C.

BTW, her parents may come to the point that they feel caught in the middle, so you may have to tell them that you understand their position and do not want to come between their R with their D. Keeping a good R with them sure helps where the kids are concerned.

Speaking of C, I am so glad you got rid of that one. There are so many bad ones giving poor advise to couples.

My hope is that this is the first stage of remorse for my W,

I don't know that she "is" remoseful. Did you say that a coworker found her notes about her thoughts of suicide? Did she speak of being remorseful in the notes? If she is doing this for attention, then she is not remorseful....even if she talked like it in the notes. If her family caters to her and she is "working" them.....it is not good. She will try this again some day if she thinks it will work now. But, that is their business in how they react to her. You have to take care of you & the kids.

She will want the man she can't have. She may be wanting some OM that doesn't want her.....or won't leave his W for her, who knows what may be going on. The thing to focus on is that you are working on becoming an attractive person.....and you start by becoming unavailable to her. It may take some time, but it will hit her how she can't crook her little finger and make you start running to her anymore. That will get her curious. She may try a few tricks to see if that will work. (That may even be what she's doing now...who knows.)

The less you speak of your life and what's going on with you, the better. You need to be somewhat mysterious where she is concerned so it will cause you to seem more interesting. It just works that way. Anyone is interesting to people when they don't know everying....right? However, do not ever lie to her.......that is not being mysterious. One can be somewhat vague without lying.

I'm glad you are pouring yourself into taking care of the kids. I'm sure you have your hands full!

[MHL]

Your W certainly has some type of crises and it sounds as if the married w/children was getting a bit much for her. Losing a good deal of weight has a strong effect on some women. Is she dressing kind of sexy and trying to act younger? That is usually a sign of MLC. Wanting to go back and redo one's life.....like returning to the dating years....that's a big issue and why lots of A's happen. It's not an "excuse" but may explain some of it....if in deed she is in MLC. Some people don't believe in it.

Yes, she use to never where low cut shirts, now they are plunging. I hate it because I always wanted her to dress sexier. In addition, the house she is renting a room in she shares with the owner, 57 single lady and other roommate is 25 and beautiful. She started going out with the young roomie and I am sure that being out together knocks 10 years off my W's age. In addition before the distance got to the point where we weren't hardly talking, we went out to a local concert hall. She was like a teenager and she all starry eyed talking to a man and this was right in front of me, I couldn't believe it. We ended up dancing together for a couple of songs, it was the first time I had touched my W in 2 months but unknown to me she was already involved with OM. As I think back on the evening I could tell she was struggling with reliving some good times with me and enjoying herself. The next day in JC she made the "i'm your W, your my H, and we are still M" when I asked for no dating during the separation. I had high hopes after she made that statement.

I do not yet know the sitch with the suicide notes. Waiting to hear from the MIL on this. I had a short conversation with her today but she was with the SIL and W's aunt who don't approve of her contact with me. She knew more than she could say so I may not find anything out for a couple of days. The initial report is that my W told my SIL that she is "very sad" and depressed. I will take the advice of limiting the contact with MIL, she thinks I should move on a forget about her D, but still talks with me and I am realistic with her about the possibility of D. I don't tell her or anyone for that matter that I still want to save my M. All I get is that I am not letting go. I have detatched for the most part but I am not giving up and that is what friends and family don't understand. They see me as being a doormat. I think that is why I started posting on the DB site.

Have to go for now, just got word from MIL that W will be calling to talk to S9 in a little bit. I need to get home to be there for support after. Apparently she is still in the hospital. MIL could not talk or give more info as SIL and W's aunt were with her. I can tell MIL wants to say more but can't, I will have to wait.

[MHL]

Update to my sitch with wife in Hospital for evaluation for suicide notes left with friends. She's at a facility out of town, in her home town with her sister. SIL texted tonight to see if W could speak with S9, of course I made that happen, I stood in the room while he spoke and could hear my W's voice and she seemed to sound good. Tried to get D13 who knows everything and hates her Mom for the lies and breaking up the family. W lied to D13 multiple times about A's. I realize and want my D13 to reconcile with W, I need her help raising the kids no matter what happens, I have been doing it all alone since mid Sept.
Stress got to me tonight, and on the way home from work had to call my Mom for shoulder to cry on, but felt better after.

During texts with SIL before W's conversation with S9 I told her to tell W, I hope she is feeling better, that I respect her wishes, i still do not want a divorce, and I still care about her. I did not say anything about love or missing her, I don't know if SIL told her or not, SIL hates me for being honest w/ D13. SIL thinks D13 should not know anything. I tried to get D13 to at least say hi to her Mom and not say anything else just let Mom talk, D13 would not have any of it. SIL spoke to me briefly after conversation w/ S9. I told her that I am trying to work on D13 to reconcile w/ W. SIL still very angry w/ me but we kept it civil, told her that I did not want to be at odds with her but probably talked to much about sitch with her. I know I need to not talk to her at all, guess that was a backslide.

On great terms with MIL, she called me today and filled me in on what she knew about W. It was limited b/c W will not talk to her much, W knows that she is talking to me and MIL told her early on that she was messing up. SIL and W's aunt look down or even hate MIL for talking to me. MIL defends herself by saying that having a R w/ me is how she will have a R with the kids, she is correct IMHO. MIL law is coming to stay w/ me and kids week before Christmas. S9 still sheilded but is well aware of tension and that Mom is in hospital. Thanks to W's aunt calling counselor at S's school and telling C about W's hospital stay. C thought that S knew and talked openly w/ son about it. I am very mad but did not say anything to SIL tonight, even though SIL is openly mad w/ me b/c I told D13. Guess that makes us even, I definitely took the high road on that one.

MIL did know that W is scared of me and does not want me know when she is returning to town, but wants to see S9 when she returns??? MIL law also let me know that W is in group session w/ addicts, I think this confirms my fear that she is a sex addict or addicted to men giving her attention, same thing. That is hard for me but I do not know for sure and she has only been out of the house since Aug 25 and the distance did not start until end of Sept. She met OM first week of Oct. MIL also said that W admited lying to her Christian C here, also that the doctors and C at hospital got her to write down on her plan for recovery "NO MEN" to find a hobby and to not go out any more. SIL and W's aunt called her co-workers to ask that they not ask her to go out anymore. Don't know if W will stick with it but I can't worry about only focus on me, kids and GAL. I figure if I can get D13 to reconcile with W that our contact will increase and hopefully she will start to notice changes in me. MIL also said W stated she wants D. MIL told her that she never told me. W always said, "if I had to make a decision today that it would be over, but is putting in God's hands". Luckily we live in state where you can not file for D until you have been separated 1 year. 9 months left.

Going to stick with not initiating any contact until W contacts me which will be to see S9. Also made a list of things to do to GAL.

[sandi2]

They see me as being a doormat.

Do you feel like a doormat?

I figure if I can get D13 to reconcile with W that our contact will increase and hopefully she will start to notice changes in me.

Okay, listen carefully b/c you are doing what almost every single LBS does at first. You are still wanting to "fix" the stitch. You are trying to control things by forcing your D13 to mend the R with her mom, then mom will be in a better mood to see your changes. That isn't the way it is suppose to be.

If you told your 13 yr old what her mother has been doing with more than one man.....don't you think she needs to be allowed time to process this the best way she can and some space to try and figure out her own feelings about her mother? Now she has to deal with the fact her mom could be suicidal. She has been given too much to deal with. Kids that age ....well, it's hard. I don't think she should be pushed into R with her mother until she's had more time and wants to talk to her mom. If she's pushed into a R, she will only push her anger down within and it will come back out later in a very bad way. Another thing, if your D13 goes too long without wanting to talk to mom, she probably needs some guidance herself.

You need to stop thinking about if your W is going to notice your changes. I can tell you that if that is the case.....your 180's won't last once you've R b/c you were not doing them for you....you were using it as a ploy to get your W back. Make the needed changes for yourself! Let me tell you something.....those 180's are not even attractive to her if you are not doing them for yourself, b/c she'll see right through them. It's all about "attitude". Think about it.

I believe you probably should just go dark and allow her to heal while she is in the hospital. If the doctors think she really is sex addicted, then don't you feel that she needs to attend the session or groups or whatever to get stronger before entering back into a MR with you?

You have stated your concern with her family. That may need to be enough for now. Anymore will be too pushy. Give them space. You can allow phone calls where the children are concerned, but you need to keep the distance. Keep working on your emotional detachment.

[MHL]

Sandi,
No I don't feel like a doormat. I know she knows what she did is wrong but wants to be happy more than doing what is right. I understand about doing the the 180's for myself but it is hard not to think about the possibility of us getting back together. I feel like I need to keep the door open in my mind so if she starts to change or show interest I will be receptive. I guess I am afraid of total detatchment b/c I might not want her back or even want to work on the R if she starts to come around.

My daughter has a great C at school and she checks on my D daily. I will give her the space and time she needs and have decided to not talk about my W with her anymore unless she wants to. At some point she made need more specialized help but she had such a bad experience during JC with my W that I am not sure if she will agree to return. D13 is more concerned w lies Mom told to her about other men and promises not to do it anymore also to break it off with the current OM.

It will be 2 weeks this Sunday since we talked. I am comitted to not contacting her until she contacts me about visiting with S9. I will just keep it basic, when, where, how etc. I will also back off the family also, I know talking to them is like talking with W.

Thanks for the advice on the 180's, will try to get the mindset that it is for me.

[sandi2]

Okay.....good deal. I know it's hard, but you can do this.

[MHL]

Thanks for the confidence Sandi, I got started this morning with a workout, I lost 70 pounds through this whole thing and at 6' 3" , 165 pounds doesn't look great. I only thought about her once or twice during the workout. Early on in the storm after I found out about the first A, I couldn't do it b/c of all the negative feelings that it drummed up.

I have a plan in place for the holiday weekend so that I will be busy and have plenty of people to call if I get down. I am not worried about trying to contact her or her family, just worried about getting down about the loss of my partner in life. Its not that I miss her so much, I miss the idea having someone else to help and support as you raise your kids, take on challenges, celebrate success and share life's experiences. Sometimes the feeling of being all alone is overwhelming. Luckily my Dad and his wife #3 will be here to help and see the kids.

In very similar ways I think my W and I have hit rock bottom in this whole ordeal but we can't recover together. We have to do so as individuals on our own.

Happy Thanksgiving