This is my first post as I have been lurking for a few weeks since the bomb was dropped on me.
Short story:
On the evening of Oct 6, 2007, when I was attempting to contact my wife of 9 years at a night club concerning a question about our kids, I innocently found out that my wife has been having many phone conversations with a couple other men she had met at night clubs. I told her to get home so that we can discuss it. She hung up on me. When she came home, I pulled her drunken body out of the car where she had passed out and she hugged me. She was way too drunk to talk so she went to bed. I could not sleep and woke her at 5 am to talk. It was then that she told me that she did not love me anymore and would like a divorce. I have yet to find out what it is that she does not love anymore as less than a year ago we seemed to both be in a loving marriage. Over the past 3 weeks, I have learned that talking to her about our relationship only pushes her away more with anger and that I have gotten her to agree to be in a "Hang Loose" friend only mode relationship. I picked up the "Hang Loose" term on a recent vacation in Hawaii. My wife likes the term a lot.
I believe she is having a mid life crisis as she says she used to party a lot when she was in high school and college and I think she is enjoying getting back into that mode. We still sleep in the same bed but we don’t have any intimacy. I am reading DB and other books along with watching Michele's "Marriage Breakthrough" seminar dvd. But I seem to get my most inspiration (along with depression) from reading the threads on this forum.
Longer story:
I am a computer programmer and met my wife almost exactly 9 years ago from the day of the bomb through a local dating service. She is from Thailand and was here in the USA on an education visa, of which, she had run out of money for school and had stopped going to school for a couple of terms so as to work as a waitress in Thai restaurants which meant that she was possibly over-staying in the USA illegally. We hit it off right away and fell in love. I was certain that she was the lady I had been searching for and she felt the same. The look of joy and love on her face when I gave her the keys to my house made me feel like she was a princess finally getting her prince. We were married one month later in a private ceremony in Vegas. Three months later we had her family come over and had another larger wedding ceremony.
Shortly after our first wedding, I was the one to do all of the leg work so as to get my wife a green card. One of the things we wanted to do while waiting for the green card, was to visit Thailand, however, it was advised that because she was borderline out of status, that it may not be possible that she would be allowed back into the country. Therefore, we decided to wait it out. During this time, her father died suddenly and we took the chance so as to attend the funeral in Thailand. I told myself that if she were denied re-entry to the USA that my deep love for her would cause me to move to Thailand to live with her even though I had a great job and home. Fortunately, she was allowed back into the US.
Over the next couple of years we had 3 miscarraiges and finally gave birth to our son who has turned out to be a very smart and gifted boy. We did not consider too much about having another, but somehow, she got pregnant again and we gave birth to a beautiful daughter.
Our married family life proceeded beautifully. We did many fun trips and activities together and there was much love in our family. As we got our kids through pre-school, my wife who had previously enjoyed working with orphans in Thailand, got very involved as a parent and photographer at the pre-school. After our kids got out of the pre-school, my wife was given a job at that preschool as an assistant teacher. She also started taking classes so as to become certified as a teacher of preschool age children.
She developed a good friendship with one of the teachers within the last couple of years. They like to go out together on the weekend to night clubs. Last Feb, I was getting a bit worried about all of the time my wife was having going out (she dresses up in a sexy manner) and there was one time she went out with single co-workers and came back incredibly drunk which worried me greatly as I don't drink and I fear for her (an others) safety on the road. I stupidly tried to put my foot down and tell her she could not go out. This was met with a lot of resentment from her as she felt I was being like her father who also tried to control her partying (bad schooling) ways in the past. After some fights, I discovered that it was a one time thing with the single girls and that the time she goes out with her teacher friend and husband that they make sure she does not drink too much and keep the predator men at the night clubs away from her. So I apologized and up until now I thought things where hunky dory except for about 2 months ago I get the feeling that my wife does not like intimacy like simple kisses with me as she once did.
Another thing out of the ordinary that I did not observe is that we took separate vacations this year – my wife and daughter to Thailand and me and my son to Hawaii. I was told that my boy has the interest to see Hawaii, which I believe is true so I agreed to it. Even though we had a good time in Hawaii, I called my wife and daughter every day as I felt something was missing.
So on that fateful evening of Oct 6, I could not get her to answer her cell phone and I needed an answer about something the kids wanted, so I went online and looked at her phone records to see if I could correlate the times she goes out with the cell phone number of her teacher friend. I see a number that matches the times and call it and a guy answers who has no idea who the teacher friend is. I then do a reverse number lookup to see it is a guy I do not know - a nurse with liberal politics – we are both conservative. I then see that this number was the first one she called upon arrival back from Thailand and she calls it at times when she is at work or in the evening when I am working out at the YMCA. I also see another number that is called that I don't recognize so I do a reverse lookup on it and see that it is another guy (commercial real estate developer) and the times she calls are the same. I freak out that my wife is having 2 simultaneous affairs and finally she returns my call. I demand that she get her butt home so that we can talk about this apparent problem with our marriage and she said no and hung up on me. It was after she got sobered up that the bomb was dropped on me.
After much talking, my wife tells me that the 2 guys are just good friends she met at the night clubs upon approval of her guardian teacher friend and husband. She even admits that one of them is a rabid liberal involved heavily in politics with opposite views than herself. I am led to believe she just likes drinking or talking with them now. However, I tell her that this is so very unhealthy for our relationship as our family life has its daily stresses and I cant compete with new men in her life which might cause her chemical euphoria in the brain when she has talks with them.
Over the next couple of weeks following the bomb, I have tried in vane to talk with her about our relationship, how we can reconcile and her calling other men only to get her more angry at me. At one point the following weekend, as I kept using logic to explain marriage, what our options are and how to be a good person, she became so angry that she started screaming, punching and kicking object. I mostly wanted to find out what it is about me that she does not love anymore, but I also said that her talking with other men is not fair for me in attempting reconciliation. I also found that she was then calling the men from her cell phone through our long distance phone card so as to make it appear that she was not calling their number directly as often. I point this out to her and make a promise to myself and her that I will not look at her phone records again. I think that one of her biggest issues with me is my curiosity of where she is going, who she is talking with or even if someone calls I naturally ask who called. I also believe that there is something in her about her father being strict that I may be reminding her of him. I am backing off and giving her space and time for now.
As for myself, this is all so very painful. This is without a doubt the worst month of my life. I have cried a lot and have had a panicky feeling. I got her to see a marriage counselor together, but that was a disaster as the marriage councelor saw that everything I was doing to work on our relationship was great and said that if my wife cant identify what her problem with me is that there was nothing she could do. My wife even said the words – "I don’t know if I ever loved you" which I know are her in denial of the past. I have seeked out another councelor that uses solution oriented brief therapy so as to be a live coach for myself in helping me GAL. My biggest mistake I think I made in my marriage is to have commited myself too much to my family. I stopped keeping in contact with my best friend and pretty much became friends with my wifes friends. I used to be quite the outdoors man (sailing, skiing, mountain climbing) and have only stayed close to the outdoors through activities I do with the kid like camping and fishing. I basically had the philosophy to sacrifice my needs for that of my family. I did not ever have a problem with that.
I have a slew of relationship books to read, have commited myself to get back in super shape, signed up to learn how to play golf, started some wood working projects (my wife liked a big shoe rack I built this last week), reconnected with my best friend (who went through a divorce 2 years ago) and want to concentrate on my kids. There is not a lot of time because of work and kids, but I am forcing myself to be patient and told my wife that I am willing to wait years for her. I told her I am confident that she wants to be a good person (she says she is bad), but now she says I deserve better. I am doing all I can to show her my deep commitment and love I hold for her and the kids. I also try to write letters for my wife and print articles about relationships that I hope she reads. I know she reads the letters at least. For her, I think she just needs time, but since I have no control of her thought process, it is frustrating. I am currently putting together a photo album collage of pages (40+) of digital pictures from our past life of happiness to give her on our 9 year anniversary next week. It is my hope that this will be something she can reflect upon and see that our life together has been good. Other than that, my case sounds so similar to others on this forum, but yet, I don’t have concrete answers as to why my wife does not love me.
I think I have a good plan and am mostly optimistic but there are times when I am so in doubt that it will work out.
On Halloween, I asked my wife a question how she liked my laying off about pleading and talking of our relationship. She did answer my question but instead re-iterated that she so much wants out of our marriage. She says she hates the whole marriage commitment and feels like there is a chain around her leg. She wants the freedom to go out to dinner with other men.
So since I can see she is serious and might possibly escalate to actually starting divorce proceedings, I suggested that before she does such a thing that it might be better to become seperated.
Also, yesterday (Nov 1) I decided to send an email to her brother in Thailand (who would translate for her mom) explaining our marriage situation. I told him that my wife would probably be angry if she knew that I did this and to use their descretion about talking to her about it.
So this morning my wife calls me on her way to work and she is really pissed off. She asked me if I called her brother and I told her I sent an email explaining our situation. She repeats multiple times "We are DONE"! and hangs up. Apparently, either her brother or mother has called her based upon my email.
I also yesterday setup an appointment for this morning to talk to my father about my situation. He had my mom cheat on him and then get a divorce when I was 17 years old so he knows what I am going through. He is very supportive of me and even said that he would like to talk with my wife and be supportive of her.
After talking with my dad, I printed the email exchange between my brother-in-law and myself, plus made a note on a greeting card telling my wife that I have only good intentions when contacting her brother. I told her that I highly respect his advise and that I needed someone else to discuss my problem with that maybe understand her.
I dropped this note/email off at my wifes work and she is still so very angry with me and repeating the "We are DONE!" phrase. She blames me for now her own mom hating her. I try to explain that I dont think I did anything wrong and that I have only good intentions. I then leave quickly before she really erupts.
I am now worried that she is going to do something really irrational after she gets off of work. I fear for my children's emotional safety as I dont think they know what is going on. I really cant understand my wife's anger right now. It does not seem like a person that is supposedly a peaceful Buddhist should act this way.
I have setup an appointment with a divorce lawyer for Monday so as to get educated for a plan B (divorce) if plan A (Divorce Busting) fails. Currently, I am not very optimistic, but feel much better than expected due to support from reading DB and communicating with to my boss, coworker, father and brother/mother-in-law.
I am still going to be seeing a counselor every Wed so as to help myself make changes for myself. I have my 9 year marriage anniversary coming up this next Wed too. Things are not looking too well right now for my relationship with my wife.
I could have told you that contacting her family would backfire. It was a terrible plan, regardless of your motives. You've basically sealed the deal for her. Now that they know, she will be more likely to go through with it.
Start focusing on yourself and your own happiness. For now, she isn't at all interested in a relationship with you. You are better off working on your improvements and making your life complete as though you are already divorced. Yes, get a lawyer and stand for your own rights.
Me
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Basically Kerry, you are still pursuing someone who does not want to be pursued. Calling/Emailing her family members or yours is a sign of desparation for you to have them convince her to come back. Maybe you didn't have any other avenues to go down or people to talk too, but doing that solidified her feelings against you. It goes against all of the DB "rules". Also dropping a note email off to her is the same thing as pleading for her to come back.
Right now she is in a mode of what's good for her only and only she can change that. Definitely stop pursuing her. I know it seems backwards to behave this way now, but it will not make things better for her if you are seen as desparate by her. That only convinces her more to stay away.
You've found a good place to vent here, so please post more of your situation and ask people here for advice on what to do. Many people have been through this exact situation and can help you prevent going down the wrong path.
Take care and I wish you the best.
Me:49 H:47 S: 16 T:27 M:25 My EA: 2001 His PA: 10/2007, 6/2013 Separated, but H still in house
Find your Shambala: a place of peace and happiness.
I agree with Just_Me. You say you are trying to give your W space, but you are putting together a photo album, sending her greeting cards, contacting her family, etc. That is not giving her space. It is only pushing her away. Read and reread DB or DR. There is a whole section on LRT that talks about all of the don'ts.
Don't call, email, or text No love letters No begging or pleading No trying to convince them that they once loved you No trying to convince them of how good things were or can be Don't push reconciliation Don't follow them around the house
There's more but I can't remember them all off the top of my head. Really lay off. Work on yourself. She needs time for the anger to subside. And, if she is indeed going through a MLC, read that section of the book too. You will need an immense amount of patience and let her get it out of her system. There really is no other way. Try to be her friend and in so doing, back off. It sounds like she has a lot of anger and control issues. She needs to figure them out. In the meanwhile really examine your role in this. Not just superficially, but dig really deep and see what was happening. I will tell you what a fellow DBer told me when my H's reaction was similar: It sounds like you may have been doing a lot of pursuing even before the bomb and are doing a lot since. Stop.
My H wouldn't even talk to me - no email, no phone nothing unless it had to do with practical things like bills and half the time that ended up in an argument which meant I really didn't hear from him. I have offered to be his friend even though he says we will not be reconciling (I'm choosing my own path and plan on reconciling). I want to love my way back in and in order to show I truly love him I have to back off. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, and like Michele talks about in her books, it seems counterintuitive. Do you want to do what feels right, but isn't working or do you want to do something that works? It is a question that has started to sink in.
Be patient, post to these boards. Read other people's situations. Reflect. And did I mention, be patient - it is the most important.
Me: 37 H: 35 M: 6 T: 8 2 cats, 1 dog, 0 kids S: 09/10/07 D started 9/21/07 (I stalled) Piecing: 11/9/07
I want to thank Just_me, Pudmuddle snafu and Torchbearer for pointing out how stupid I have been acting. I am committing myself to stop talking to her or writing letters or creating photo albums (which have consumed a huge amount of my evening time). I must STOP my pursuing. It may be too late for the LRT but I am going to follow it to the T from now.
This afternoon, she drove to my work and we talked in her van (she screamed irrationally / I was calm). She says by emailing her brother and mother that I have destroyed her life. I pointed out that it was really she that was responsible because it is her actions that is destroying her life. She says she is going to disappear because she is such a bad person and that she wants nothing and the kids are to be with me. She says that she was willing to stay at home this Friday and play video games as a family, but now all that is changed. I wish she had expressed that before because all I heard from her on Halloween night was that she was seeking a divorce. She is so irrational. The email to her brother/mother was such a bad ideas as I did not realize that her mother would call her up and scold her.
Because she seems to be in such a self destruct state right now, I have changed the combination on the safe where she has her guns stored. As long as she does not want to go shooting, what she does not know wont make her mad.
Tonight, as she was getting all dressed up to hit the nightclubs, I told her that only she can bring herself happiness and that I want to know if I she is hanging around here at all this next week as I need to schedule the kids. She does not care and said she is going out to really F#$% U@ her life now.
I have an appointment with a lawyer on Monday to become educated. I have a friend that went through a divorce and said that he regrets not getting it done quick because the longer it drags out the more money the lawyer and wife got. My wife currently wants nothing and does not even appear to want the kids. That could change in time. She has real anger issues and appears like her mind has been taken over by outer space aliens.
Meanwhile, as I now appear to be the only parent of 2 kids with quite a few activities (piano/ukelelee/violin lessons, Chinese class, swim lessons, school and cub scouts), it looks like the things I was planning for myself to GAL are being put on hold as I will have no time for anything other than work and taking care of my kids. I do plan to do lots of activities together with my kids that we all find fun. However, my wife can sure mess things up if she desires.
This afternoon, she drove to my work and we talked in her van (she screamed irrationally / I was calm). She says by emailing her brother and mother that I have destroyed her life. I pointed out that it was really she that was responsible because it is her actions that is destroying her life. She says she is going to disappear because she is such a bad person and that she wants nothing and the kids are to be with me. She says that she was willing to stay at home this Friday and play video games as a family, but now all that is changed. I wish she had expressed that before because all I heard from her on Halloween night was that she was seeking a divorce. She is so irrational. The email to her brother/mother was such a bad ideas as I did not realize that her mother would call her up and scold her.
Her needs, expectations and plans will change one day to the next. Don't be surprised if one day she tells you're an incapable father and she doesn't trust you with the kids... Part of their MO is going up and down and through all kinds of crazy emotions.
It sounds like she's pretty isolated right now. She doesn't want to deal with her family, with you - Nothing you can do about that. Give her space and let her do what she is doing. The more you fight, the harder she will pull away. Next time she is going out at night just be "Cool - Have a good time" and leave it at that. She doesn't want to hear that she brought this on herself (because, lets face it, it's not true - She has credible reasons for wanting to bail, I'm sure), nor does she believe that she can control her own happiness, because right now she's pretty miserable and lost.
Focus on your kids - I'm in a similar position, in that it's really hard to do much because I seem to end up with our D most of the time. But, I figured out that if I take D to daycare an hour earlier, I can get to the gym at work pretty quickly. D and I go out places together in the evening, either to eat or just to do stuff.
You'll notice how attractive to everyone a doting father with his children is. I'm sure you don't want that kind of attention right now, but it might be helpful to build some positive relationships and make some extra friends.
Ever thought about telling W that you're going out for the night, and leaving her to watch the kids? She might fight it, but there is probably a good time down the road when she is less angry that you can basically get out for a while and let her see what it is like looking after them. My W can't handle looking after D on her own right now. She always brings up excuses for me to hang out with them when it is her day with D.
Just don't try to over think anything. Once you've been doing this for a few months you'll realize that good things happen, and bad things happen, and unless you happened to do something stupid to push her away, the ups and downs don't have a whole lot to do with you at all.
I have dedicated myself to concentrate on my kids now and leave my wife alone unless she initiates the conversation.
I have a coworker who plays in a band and he suggested that I go out to see him play this Saturday. I am not certain whether my WAW will be resonable in staying home on a Sat so I may not press it yet.
Sorry that you find yourself here. But as you can already see, there is much support here for you. Everything that everyone here has told you is sound advice. Its very hard not chase and to work on you at first, but it will get easier. Its also very necessary to keep yourself from going crazy. So hang in there and keep on working on you.
You are so right about plans changing day to day. After her saying yesterday "We are done" and going out on the town to do whatever, she comes home at 2:00 am. She helps the kids get ready in the morning and do their homework and ends up going with the kids and I to watch "The Bee Movie". I do see her having various phone conversations in Thai either with her Thai friends or family. She then is going over to her coworker teachers house/out on the town and may spend the night there if she is too drunk. It is not bothering me that much of her going out now, but I wonder what she is plotting as this coworker is maybe the only person that agrees with her.
