- Great marriage and happy family for over 8 years. - W gets a job as an assitant pre-school teacher and starts going night clubbing with co-workers. - W gets addicted to clubbing and flirting. - W gets genital herpes. She says it was a friends lipstick. I believe her. - I discover she talks a lot with various OM on her cell phone. - I confront W and get "I dont love you" talk. - I beg and pursue stupidly for a month or so. - I seek guidance and support from a counselor, friends and family. This may have been a mistake as too many know for W to come back, however, I would have had a nervous breakdown holding it in. - W has no one that agrees what she is doing is right. - W moves out upon my insistence if she is going to date OM's. The kids stay in the house with me. She apparently moves to stay with co-worker. - I eventually gain strength and happiness in knowing that I will be ok without W. I still dont want a D because of the kids sake. I leave the door to my heart open. - W includes our kids as part of her A with rich OM who happens to be 67. She says she is test driving him to see if he gets along with the kids. I file D because this is so sick and twisted and inappropriate to show kids that permiscuous behavior is ok. - W sees a lawyer, who starts talking her into going after a stake in my ownership of software company (which I had before our marriage) I work at or a portion of any future riches I achieve after the D. This really gets me mad. I talk W into seeing a mediator so as to save us from losing our friendship and lots of legal fees in a D fight. - We start sharing kids as part of a parenting plan we agree on. - W includes co-worker as part of her lie that she was living with co-worker, but instead with OM. Co-worker is furious and feels betrayed. W most likely will lose her job soon. - W finally admits to a "one night stand" which most likely resulted in genital herpes. - W sees her life falling apart and starts to play the victim. - W has still never given any indication other than some hugs and kisses that she wants to save our M. I believe she likes me as the security in her life, but will never love me again. - The door to my heart for my W is closed, locked and the key has been lost. I do not love her anymore and can't see myself loving her deeply again.
W and I had a little argument this morning when she stopped by the house before work. I asked her again that I need her to get our parenting plan file from her lawyer so that we can take it to the mediator. From there, she said crazy things like I have changed, she is going to give me the D I want, everyone including myself is going to have a good laugh at what she has become, etc... I think she wants to say she wants back, but she just does not have it in her to open up.
I ended up writing her a letter saying that we need to not argue and that it was the wrong time to have such a talk. I also told her that it is probably not best for her to be playing the victim card and that regardless of her choices, we need to work together through and after this divorce.
I feel for you. The feeling of being betrayed by the woman you love is about the most painful emotion I have ever experienced. I wish I was able to turn the page on my W & M, move on, and be OK with it all like you seem to. I guess there is no point to my post other than to let you know I have been following your sitch and am thinking about you.
Me45 W35 M6 T8 D16 SD11 D0 Dec 07: Bomb July 08: Busted! Thread
I had some interesting phone calls with W and her best friend last night.
In the first call from W, she was keying off the letter I wrote her yesterday. She said that she had been wanting to talk this weekend about herself returning to our M, but that she can read I have changed and that I am ok moving ahead with the D. I told her to open up and tell my why all of sudden the change of heart. She could not say. She asked what it would take for me to have her back. I told her I need to hear first why she wants back. She would not say as she is stubborn.
I then called her best friend so as to help me figure out my W's motives. The best friend does not approve of what my W has done, however, she does strongly believe that our M can be saved. She told me about some friends of hers that went through a similar problem like ours and saved their M. I kept telling her that I just did not have any love for W anymore and it would be up to W to convince me otherwise. I told her that my family and friends want me to just move on and that I feel that I can find someone better than W. She pleaded with us to wait it out longer - she said that a D is just a piece of paper. She told me to think deeply about what is in my heart.
I called W later in the evening to try and see if she would open up more. It was probably bad timing as the kids were still up, however, she did talk about what has been happening with her mind over the last week. She said that each time she wanted to talk to me seriously about the possibility of coming back, something would happen (ie. her teacher friend getting outraged). She also mentioned that she got some encouragement from another teacher about her seeing a counselor to help in dealing with her inner self. I did not hear anything from her where she indicated that she loved me and that she wanted to return to being a good wife. As far as I can tell, I think that I have been the safety net and now that she has messed up her life so bad, that she wants to come back to me wanting me to fix everything for her.
We may have a face to face talk tonight. I will listen. My feelings now are that I hate getting a D for the fact that it splits the kids time with each of us, it makes it more difficult for one parent at a time to raise the kids, and the financial situation gets hit hard. I miss the family bond we once had. However, I am now the WAH and it would be up to my W to convince me that our M could be reborn. I know that there is a way back, but I dont think she has the strength or couage to do that. I think that it is her culture and pride which prevents her from seeking redemption and admitting she has done wrong. She knows that members of my family will never look at her the same and that she has betrayed my trust.
As a start, I think she would have to promise to never go out to night clubs without me again. No girls night out either. She has shown that she cant be trusted. Also, she would have to severe ties with all the OM she had met in the bars, including the one she is living with now. She would need to go to a personal counselor, marriage counseling, Retrouville, watch Michelle's "Keeping the love Alive" dvd, and read R books. She will need to learn to open up to me and not keep secrets to herself. She will need to try and patch up her relationship with her mother and brother. Most of all, she needs to convince me that our family and myself are the most important thing in her life.
It would take quite a while to rebuild by love for her and I dont know if it can be done. She will need to change. She will need to show me that she wants to do something with her life and that she can make herself happy on her own. The biggest hurdle she faces now is that I know that there are much better ladies out there that I can fall in love with. She needs to be one of those ladies that a man would consider a keeper.
We all went to the Cub Scout Blue and Gold dinner tonight. I think W actually enjoyed it as they had a cool chinese dragon dance. One big thing I noticed tonight was that she was wearing the big diamond ring I bought her a couple years after we got married. Afterwards, when we got back to my house, she did not have time to do the talk she wanted as she needed to get the kids back to OM's house and to bed. She said that OM was out doing stuff with his granddaughter so she could not come back to talk. We had a big hug and kiss at the door. It was a good night doing things as a family again. I kind of forgot that we are going through a D.
Sounds like a nice night. I fantasize about the first kiss with W - I'm jealous!
You sound resolute in your feelings about wanting to go ahead with D, though if the tables were turned would you have taken that night as a baby step back to R/M? Maybe if you looked at your list of things W would need to do for you to take her back. Those are a lot of pretty monumental requirements. But pick a few easy steps that would bring her in that direction, and just ask if she would do it? The most neglected chapter in DR, I believe, is the one about asking for what you want. If she succeeds, then think about what the next step would be, and the next, and so on. Then gauge whether that is enough for you to keep your family together.
I'm no pro at all this, just my thoughts. I am thinking about you.
Me45 W35 M6 T8 D16 SD11 D0 Dec 07: Bomb July 08: Busted! Thread
What an interesting turn of events.. now your WAW is interested in returning home and you're not sure if you want her. That's amazing. Well only you know what's best for you and your kids (which your kids are gorgeous).. I'm sure you will weigh the options and come to the right conclusion for everyone...
It is nice for a LBS like me to see that your W is making comments about wanting to come home.. It gives some hope.
It would take quite a while to rebuild by love for her and I dont know if it can be done. She will need to change. She will need to show me that she wants to do something with her life and that she can make herself happy on her own. The biggest hurdle she faces now is that I know that there are much better ladies out there that I can fall in love with. She needs to be one of those ladies that a man would consider a keeper.
Your W is obviously in a position where she really needs to show you that she wants back in the M - I'd say first step would be to move out of OM's place and find somewhere of her own... Kind of stupid that she asks about reconciliation, then has to go back to OM's house to put the kids to bed.
Sounds like you've raised the bar quite a way and your W is just smacking her head off it right now I've chewed over the same thoughts a lot in the last month or so - I certainly have not experienced the same hurt and distrust as you, but in many ways my W is a 'known', where as someone new might have just as many stupid problems that they're not dealing with.
W just called this morning asking if I wanted to spend time together today as a family. I declined as I have too many other things I needed to get done and I just need some time to myself.
I dont know what she is thinking now. Does she want back for convenience and to save her face or because she loves me? She had told me on Friday that she returned a lot of the things that were bought for the kids rooms at OM's place. She also did not know how she was going to pay OM back for the furniture he had bought the kids. I get the feeling she thinks that she can just move back with me and everything will be as it once was.
I believe that if one were to talk to couples who have long (50 year) M's, a lot may say that they had at least one big problem in their M, and that after getting over it, they were able to get to stage 5 which Michelle talks about in the marriage map. However, my grandparents were M'd for over 50 years and towards the end they sure seemed to hate each other with quite a passion.
I agree with BritInOH that my W is a 'known' and we do have a history together. There is a lot of good in my W and we have had a lot of fun times together. Finding someone new for me is going to have its own pains and frustrations. I dated a lot of women before I found W, and I suspect the same would be true now. I never had any doubt in my mind when I decided to marry W. I figure that if I find someone else, and am sure she is the right one, I at least will have the advantage this time that she will be older and past any MLC stage of her life.
I am keeping an open mind for now and will let W know that she needs to convince me why she thinks our M will succeed.
W stopped by this morning before we both went to work. We had another long embrace with kisses. There still is something between us, but I dont know what it is.
I reminded her that this Wed we are seeing a mediator to negotiate and finalize our D papers and asked her what she thought. She said she had talked to her best friend and now thinks she should move to an apartment so as to live on her own for a while. Oh joy, that means that I will be paying spousal support, but that will proably lower the child support. We will see what the mediator recommends.
I've chewed over the same thoughts a lot in the last month or so - I certainly have not experienced the same hurt and distrust as you, but in many ways my W is a 'known', where as someone new might have just as many stupid problems that they're not dealing with.