Quotes found on Divorcebusting (II)

[Ready2Change]

My Original thread has been moved and locked:

Quotes found on Divorcebusting

Here are some more:

Honestly, the first thing you need to do is forgive yourself for your failing M -- the past is the past, and you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time. End of story
-Gone Dancin'

We NEVER leave PEOPLE... We leave situations. Please keep that in mind. She is not leaving YOU she is leaving a situation that she thinks YOU created. Change that situation and take away her reasons for leaving.
-MarcDIsDone

The four stages in general terms include, (1) Reducing negative emotions (2) Reestablishing a relationship (friendship) (3) Realignment of romance (4) Recommitment
- HOPEFULinCALI

Always say less than she does. If she says five words, you say three. Simple declarative sentences get their attention,they knew I was listening
-Gypsy

Real Love is when you expect nothing in return.
-jmw128

Real Love is if you needed your spouse right now could you depend on them.
-jmw128

I would do whatever for her, expecting nothing
-jmw128

It's not how you fall that matters, but how you get up
-Gypsy

Take long walks to think clearly about your future and what goals you need to set
-sandi2

and that at the very best means that we can control our actions, choices, behaviors, etc. Yes, it is hard work because we pretty much have to re-wire ourselves, but I have found that the more you focus on doing this and the more effort you put into it, the easier it becomes
-Gone Dancin'

You start acting like you will be okay no matter what happens
-Gone Dancin'


She is a typical WAS -- completely in selfish mode.
-Gone Dancin'

It almost always takes a major crisis to fully occur before we are able to understand the magnitude of our previous choices, actions, and behaviors.
-Gone Dancin'

"the grass is only greener where you water it"
-cherylanne

Even though you didn't ask for this to happen, the better educated you are on all facets (DR, relationships, Positive Mental Attitude, the divorce process) the better you'll be able to manage this difficult period
-Gypsy


Just assume that you are competing with another woman, but you have the man
-cherylanne

Do things that are positive for you, not just positive for the marriage, and you will get to a good place
- dry_heat

All the space, all the room, all the freedom he wants. Validation, understanding and making positive changes for me as I emerge from a cocoon of a mismanaged marriage
-Gypsy

I take the Divorce Remedy every where I go, and read it over and over. It brings a peace and renewed understanding.
--Gypsy

I'd say find a positive level of interaction so you engage her as long as she's a willing participant in the "fight" - face the anger, irrationality or whatever as long as you do it in a completely detached way, but face it without fear. This way you are still in the game and can listen, learn, relate, improvise.
- fb2

my new theory is to treat anyone who's being unreasonable like a cat. Ignore them long enough and eventually they seek you out
--Gypsy

How will doing X, Y or Z effect my personal well being, long term goal, family.
--Gypsy

A person has their own needs. You don't tell someone what they are because you don't want to make any demands on someone. But you still have these needs, then you get frustrated because you still have them and they aren't being met. Then you resent me because I'm not meeting your needs. Then you feel guilty for resenting me for not meeting your needs that you never told me about in the first place. Which then frustrates you even more for not saying anything for so long. I know it sounds confusing, but the next thing you are caught up in this revolving door of emotions, and none of them are any good
-homegrown

Maybe DBing is like fishing. If you always pulled 'em in, it'd be called 'catching'. Perhaps the image of the patience it takes to fish might help during this time.
--Gypsy

Building up expectations and using H to validate you, make you happy, centering your life around what he does or doesn't do - those are all things under YOUR control that are causing you to get hurt over and over
-NikB


I understand why that you do not wish to be married at this time and this break is a good time for us to work on ourselves.
-HOPEFULinCALI

1) Minimize contact/conflict with WAW - I am doing this well, yet can do better. But I will focus all my strength in minimizing the time spent during our contacts...I do not want to allow for an opportunity of conflict.
2) When communicating with WAW, I will listen more, talk less, be calm, friendly, and confident - once agan no conflict, no awkwardness, or chaos.
3) Be patient and consistent with my GAL, 180's, etc...WAW is very much noticing my changes/actions through 5D - so I definitely want to maintain what I am doing well.
4) Be extremely focused and determined to get to stage 2 - friendship. To know and execute my three goals above will give me a chance.
I very much want to move to Stage 2 of rekindling our friendship. I miss my friend. I will remain focused on this primary goal.
-jmw128

[addie]

Thanks for the quotes. I saw your first thread of quotes as well. It helps to read them all in one place.

[Ready2Change]

Gypsy had a great post!

(I like the fart one!)

It's not about recognition from other.. but about recognizing who I am.

His approval does not define my self worth.

Sentences beginning with 'him', 'he' are outlawed, along with 'poor me' statements.

I am no longer a victim.

I will move out of that comfort zone.

It's easier to be the one left behind when it comes to getting sympathy... but guess what.. that does nothing positive when it comes to living a full and productive life.

I will not feel sorry for myself.

I will accept the unknown, the fear.

I will trust those who are worthy.

I will take chances that lead to positive goals.

I will embrace change, be more flexible, listen without talking.

I will leave the crap where it lands and not carry it with me.

What other people say about me is none of my business.

What I say about others is my choice.

I will spend time on what brings joy, renewal and growth.

I will move to a better place in my life without worrying about should have's, would have's, could have's.

I will let go of how I let his choices disable me.

I will focus on where MY choices will take me.

I will not be perfect, the epitome of anything.

I will be a wonderful woman with heart, grace, soul and farts.

I will accept all of me, even the crap I don't like.

I'll clean my mind, unload the stuff that's been stuffing it. Just let go of the clutter I cling to.

I will remember to smile fo no reason, if only to keep that downturned line by my mouth from getting any deeper.

I will remember to wear sunblock.

I will embrace those who relish who I am, and not worry about the others.

I will not view myself through other people's eyes.

I will listen to what is said to me in love, concern, support, hate, disrespect and will make my own choices.

I will learn to separate my knee jerk reactions of emotions from what is truly good for me.

I will love me.. as wonderful, whacky, imperfect, gooky, sad, happy and however else I might be.

I will love others without the fear of the past crippling me.

I will live my life without the blanket of my fears and insecurities.

I will not scratch the wound.

I will accept and own what is mine and flush the rest.

I will heal, be happy, healthy and grateful for all that life has given and will give me.

And I will never be afraid to..

[Ready2Change]

Some more:

People don't change because they are talked into it. Did you change when she was nagging you? No, it took an action on her part, truly intending to leave you, to make you take action.
-Just_Me

She didn't reach the point of divorce overnight....she won't reach the point of reconciliation overnight either. And she might not ever reach that point...but you can't control that.
-Just_Me

Positive state of mind for those fighting for the marriage:
Write down 10 positive things about your Spouse.
Write down 5 of the happiest moments when you were together.
Write down 3 things you need to work on.
Do this excerise, the reason we focus on the positives that happened and the happy moments that happened is because they already occured, they can't be taken away! We write down three things we need to work on because we can only change and control ourselves, it us up to others to control and change themselves.
-thegoodfight

It is okay to screw up we all do it. It is very good to admit mistakes and correct them. I call this being an adult. Forgive yourself and you will find in time it will make it easier to forgive others also. This is how we grow as human beings.
-thegoodfight

It's time to be brutally honest with yourself -- what have you done wrong in your R, and what behaviors do you believe need to be changed? It seems that everything I've read so far is blame towards your H. H did this, H did that, etc. Ask yourself why he has gone somewhere else to get his needs met (which also means you need to determine what his needs truly are and how you've not met them and why).
- Gone Dancin'

A few things I learned last night in my little on line course...
"the moment you surrender to the worst possible thing that can happen to you, the door opens to the divine"
"the past has no power over the present"
"your repetitive negative emotions are only creating more negative emotions"
"accept the discomfort and the pain for what it is in order to move past it"
-JennyF

I am sure at some point or other you have either thought or said that you would gladly give your life for your W or your kids. Well what you need to do now is not that drastic, so gladly throw yourself into this knowing that you will BOTH come out of this stronger and happier.
-steve477

DONT tell OMs W. Tempting at times I know. But think of it this way. If you tell his W and she leaves him, then he is free to persue your W. Counter productive dont you think!
-steve477

Your W is not in love with him, she is in love with the idea of being in love with him. Remember when you were inlove? Its about how the other person made YOU feel about yourself, it was a good feeling, but it never lasts
-steve477

I think I said the serenity prayer a thousand times.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

I can understand why you backslide. It's hard to maintain your composure when they are spitting venom and vile. My W brings up things that have happened in the past because she does not have anything bad to bring up that I have done since I have changed. They see our changes and get pissed about them at first, add a dose of guilt on their part and they can get real riled during R talks.
- M from Tennessee

AND if you forgive someone...you never use it against them in the future. Think hard about that
-Jack_Three_Beans

but I had kids to become a family, not to be a broken family and seperate holidays and not experience things as a family
-gabbysmom23

[Ready2Change]

In fact, I had an epiphany of sorts last night. I know for certain I will happy again because there are only two possible outcomes:

1. I will repair my marriage and my W and I will never take each other for granted again and our love will be stronger than it ever could have been prior to going through this...OR

2. I will realize my W and I are not right for each other and I will move on and live the life I was meant to have, but could not have realized without going through this process.

[Ready2Change]

I think what a lot of us (not just me) who have been communicating regularly with CBK are seeing in him is he seeks advice, considers it, very often even vocalizes what he KNOWS he should (or shouldn't) do . . . and then he does it anyway. It's not so much he has disagreed with the advice, rather it's a sense of:

"Should I touch the hot stove?"

"No!!!!"

"I know I shouldn't, but maybe it would help me determine the real temperature of the burners."

"No, don't do it -- it will make it worse!"

"OK, I hear you, and I know I shouldn't, but maybe if I just do it once, I will know what I'm dealing with and the stove will know that I'm serious about knowing what its temperature is."

"Please, CBK, you'll only burn your hand!"

"I know you're all saying I shouldn't touch the stove, and I hear you. But last nite, I backslid and I touched the stove again, and this is why . . . "

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

It's not that we don't respect CBK's instincts, and we DAMNED sure respect his EFFORT. He's working his azz off. It's that he's not following his instincts, even when he knows (and vocalizes) that he should.

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

Here are some more:

Unless this is something that you've never done before (ie..send flowers) don't do this. It's pursuing, which the W does NOT want. She knows how you feel. Trust me. Trust that she knows. Anything like this is considered pressure from the LBS and what they are trying to do is process a TON of emotions and they can't when they get things like that from us.
-Neilh23


If you want to meet your W's emotional needs then meet the one that she wants you to meet......detach. Have the strength to be yourself and to let her be herself. This is what real giving is about....she has told you what she wants (space)....give it to her even if you don't want to. Have the courage to let her go....but be her friend if she needs one (Check out the Man-Up thread in MLC by SG....it is probably several pages back now). I doubt seriously if your newly sep W was upset that she only got a card for your Anniversary...I hope you didn't follow it up with flowers. This is a day she is trying to forget....don't pressure her.
-Neilh23

I'm by no means free and clear of all sins; I've caused her secondary infections for sure. However, by seeing her as "not well", I've developed deep compassion and pity for her.
-cotoffgard


"There are two primary choices in life:
to accept conditions as they exist,
or accept the responsibility for changing them."
Denis Waitley
-Mountainman

Great quote I read today:
"You are today where your thoughts have brought you;
you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you."
James Allen
-Mountainman

Here's what I learned:
1) some people can do this flawless and it won't matter
2) some people can't do this and it will matter
3) It takes time and some of these spouses are just gone for good
4) No one can determine which one yours will be
5) Engaging in arguments is BAD
6) Validate and detach (as applicable in each situation)
7) Get a DB coach if you can, if not read this BB and DR(your
not sleeping anyway)
8) If you drink stop...I wouldn't even have a glass of wine
because I knew what would happen (buzzed emotional meltdown
in front of him)
9) Handle yourself appropriately in front of your children, this one is most important...children learn by example..
10)Assuming what they are doing and what is really going on is
way different...I found all this out when he came home..you
are on their minds a lot more than you think. So with that don't you want their thoughts to be either A. See what a controlling Biatch she is or B. Hey, she's totally cool, self sufficient and no pressure. That's what the OP is doing for them so it's your chance to behave the same way.
-sandycay

[Ready2Change]

Expressing Empathy:
1. Be a feeling mirror; "you look sad" "you look angry" "you look scared"
2. Don't therapize
3. Echo feelings back
4. Ask; "how are you feeling now?"
5. Ask; "what was that like for you?"
6. Ask; "if your feelings could speak what would they say?"
7. Don't try to make the person feel better or cheer up or look on the bright side.
8. Collect what they are feeling
9. Compare with your own feelings of the past
10. Communicate back; Say "it hurts doesn't it" or "that would make me angry too".
11. Ask yourself; How would I have to feel to say what this person just said.
12. Say; "I can see your eyes filling with tears, do you want to tell me how you feel?"

[smartcookie]

Nice !

Hugs

ps H is playing his old games.

[Esky94]

(Check out the Man-Up thread in MLC by SG....it is probably several pages back now).

This thread interests me, but I can find it with the search engine. Can you post the link? Thanks.

[Ready2Change]

I was the nat that kept buzzing "pay attention to me." Not only did I annoy him but he also felt the need to swat at me with harsh words. I quit buzzing around him and he has quit swating at me. Lesson learned.I hate that I have had to learn to detach from the one who meant the most to me.

[Ready2Change]

(Check out the Man-Up thread in MLC by SG....it is probably several pages back now).

This thread interests me, but I can find it with the search engine. Can you post the link? Thanks.

Link to Man-up Thread

[Vjd6065]

Thank you for some great quotes sometimes when i feel lost i know i can always find my way agin on this site with such great people

[Ready2Change]

Anytime she talks to you, (if you don't do this already) stop what you're doing, watch her & listen. Ask a question from her last sentence. Make noises like Hm, & really ? nod your head, & smile. You are showing her that you are now a safe person to talk to...Sometime later in the day/evening, just briefly mention that you enjoyed talking with her. .

[Ready2Change]

Make it all about her - SmartCookie

[ndsmhelp]

[quote=Bworl]

You damned well better never let her down again. The heart is a fragile thing.


You understand that you can never go back, right? You understand that even after she has released you from your purgatory, the work is not done? The marriage that you are slowly building will take this same kind of loving attention EVERY day, EVERY minute.


Blessings,

Bill

[Ready2Change]

Here is what is working for me:

1) FORGIVE everything W has done / is doing. This is MY CHOICE. I can choose to resent what she is doing, or let it go and forgive her. This is a huge weight lifted off of me. What she chooses is HER choice. It is MY CHOICE how I let it affect me.

2) PATIENCE - My understanding is there are 4 stages that every couple goes through. W is in stage 3. I have put my need from W completely hold. I want to give to W unconditionally for the rest of the relationship. I have faith that W will have a change in heart. I am not her enemy.

Stage 1 : ROMANTIC LOVE - Both partners ignore all the BAD in the other partner and see only the GOOD.

Stage 2 : POWER STRUGGLE - Each partner "keeps score" and resentment builds up.

Stage 3 : DISPARE - Both partners are unhappy with R. One partner cracks and wants out.

Stage 4 : TOGETHER AT LAST - Both partners have forgiven each other for issues of the past. Some people never make it here. If I am patent, I have a better chance of making it to stage 4 with W.

3) PERSONAL GROWTH - During this period away from W, I have been "looking in the mirror" and working on all my issues. I read all I can. I am FIXING all my bad habits. This will need to continue for the rest of my life.......

4) LIVE in the NOW - The past is gone. Remember and learn from it, but I will not let it control me. The future is not here, so I can not worry about that either.

5) Do work : Keep busy taking care of ME, Bills, kids, etc....

6) BALANCE: Find balance in everything. I need time alone, but also need time with kids, as well as interactions with other adults. Rest/Work/Play/Exercise.

7) EMPATHY / VALIDATION : My W has her issues. I can empathize with her, but not take it personally. I can also validate how she is feeling (This shows that I DO CARE).

8) DETACH EMOTIONALLY: It has taken awhile, but I do not let W's emotions affect me. It is my choice to be happy with or without her. If she is angry, I do not let that affect me....

9) self fulfilling prophesy - When I interact with wife, I expect her to be nice. Guess what.....

10) 100% INTENTION : I can control my thoughts, words and actions. I intend on getting to stage 4. Every interaction with W will either bring us closer or push us farther apart. I intend on drawing us closer.

[jonny]

Hey there,
I can't find the 'Man Up' thread that was mentioned... do you know where it is specifically, I looked back through about 20 pages in MLC

Jonny

[Ready2Change]

Hey there,
I can't find the 'Man Up' thread that was mentioned... do you know where it is specifically, I looked back through about 20 pages in MLC

Jonny

In this thread, about 6 posts earlier (Date = 10/14/2008) You will find a link.

[Ready2Change]

Here is one of my post:

Detaching help

It combines a lot of things I have found throughout this website...

[Ready2Change]

H glares at me and says, well I guess your glass really is half-full, isn't it? As if that's an insult. I smiled and said, nope, it's all the way full.

[Esky94]

Thanks for the ManUp link R2C

[Mellenmack]

H glares at me and says, well I guess your glass really is half-full, isn't it? As if that's an insult. I smiled and said, nope, it's all the way full.

lmao..

technically it is all the way full..half of it with milk and half of it with AIR, which is something.

my mom has this on her fridge at home and i like it a lot.

"Today"

"This is the beginning of a new day. I have been given this day to use as I will. I can waste it or use it for good. What I do today is important because I'm exchanging a day of my life for it. When tomorrow comes, this day will be gone forever, leaving in its place whatever I have traded for it. I pledge to myself that it shall be gain, not loss; good, not evil; success, not failure; in order that I shall not regret the price I paid for this day."

Mel

[Ready2Change]

One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it

I am not letting FEAR control my actions anymore. What you FEAR happens. You create it by your actions trying to avoid it.

[Ready2Change]

Your mind is like water. When it is agitated, it becomes difficult to see. If you let it settle, the answer becomes clear.

Clearing my mind of all the "NON TRUTHS" has helped me see things clearly. I stopped making assumptions. I stopped FEARING the future. I stopped worrying about the past. I am exactly where I need to be right now. Every thought and CHOICE I make will affect where I am in the FUTURE.

[Coach]

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter who was MOSTLY at fault. When our spouse decides they've had enough, there is only one thing we can do that has any real chance at being effective in changing the dynamics.

Change ourselves.

Not in to what we think THEY want.

We need to work on changing ourselves into the person we should have always been. Period.

Notice that NDS did not try to fix his wife's problems. He did not try to change her, or even change her mind. He changed himself.

Great advice from BWORL

[Coach]

The main lesson, the most important lesson, I've learned from BDing - and from my friends here is that to love in the most generous way is to give without expecting anything in return...It is, without a doubt, the most difficult kind of love to achieve - but the reward can be so spectacular - in that we love while maintaining a sense of ourselves. What I've found over the last few months is that when we love with entanglements and attachments and expectations - we really isolate our "selves" within a mess of dread, desire, want and confusion. But when we love, truly love, by giving and not attaching ourselves to any consequences of our giving - we are free to be whole...That's comforting - but also terrifying - and also so very sad at times...since how could we possibly be whole on our own when words like "you complete me" resonate so soundly in our cultural pantheon of love? Don't we need another to complete us? Romance would suggest it...but love, in reality, says no...we need to be complete in order to love in the healthiest of ways...and that lesson, getting there, feels impossible sometimes since it involves undoing, brick by brick, the very temples we thought were ourselves - and now we're using those bricks to make a better designed, more stable temple..

Beautifully written by Carlos.

[Coach]

3. Active Listening

. Ignoring distractions.
. Ignoring delivery quirks and focusing on the message.
. Making eye contact.
. Being aware of body language.
. Understanding the speaker's ideas.
. Asking clarifying questions.
. Recognizing the speaker's intent.
. Acknowledging the emotion involved.
. Responding appropriately.
. Remaining engaged even when taking notes.


Tonight H & I communicated. We both were able to take turns talking & take turns actively listening.

We made up.

That's a example of true loving from Cookie.
Listening is such a huge deal.

[Coach]

From JDollie

I said to someone the other day:

"I have become the man I once dreamed of.
I have developed a closeness with my children that I didn't even know was POSSIBLE.
I have become the husband I always wanted to be - loving my W unconditionally.
And, finally, I have learned I can live with out my W."

There is nothing more valuable than knowing you did your best, having an INCREDIBLE relationship with your children, and a clear conscience to go with it.

[ndsmhelp]

...and another from BWORL;

One of the most valuable things that I learned was that it was possible for only ONE spouse to significantly change the dynamics between the two of us.

This happens when we truly allow ourselves to invest enough of ourselves into the future of the relationship that we can accept carrying the load until our spouse slowly but surely begins to change too.

I think that might be a good example of unconditional love.

It has to start with someone. Someone brave enough to put themself aside for a brief time in order to reclaim the two of you.

[Ready2Change]

I feel this is valuable, so I will post it here:

Sorry about your current state of the R. Have FAITH that it will get better. Remember that it only takes ONE PERSON (YOU) to change the dynamics of a relationship. This process has taught me PATIENCE. I have learned how to truly FORGIVE others. I can feel EMPATHY for others (WIFE). When others (WIFE) PROJECT there garbage (Anger etc....) on me, I have learned not to reflect it back, rather I LISTEN and VALIDATE. I have accepted that everyone needs to walk their own path, and right now, my W is walking her path without me. My happiness is not dependent on anyone but ME. Passing out what I want to receive is working great. The more KINDNESS I pass out, the more I receive.

I ask these questions many times a day:
1) Is what I am about to do or say going to draw this person (spouse) closer or push them farther away? Make your choice wisely.
2) Is the decision I am about to make in the best interest of my kids? If it is, then the decision is good for ME.
3) Has this method worked in the past? If not, do something different, maybe a 180....

[Ready2Change]

This post is a good read.....

[DrHemlock]

Ready -- good pull! I hadn't seen that one, but now that I've read it I'm going to second your endorsement. Mandatory reading for all new DB'ers and everyone else who's losing sight of the road ahead.

To quote that great philosopher, Rocky Balboa, "it ain't about how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get it and keep moving forward."

[ndsmhelp]

From Coach....

Think of the ball as your relationship now. You want to keep the ball in play, keep your W wanting to play and you controlling your play to the best of your ability. Get your groove back. You can't control your opponent but you can control yourself.

[Coach]

Puppy Wisdom.

What you have to start to wrap your head around is that there are ways to be a man, and to "fight for" your marriage without fighting WITH, your wife, nor appeasing her either.

There are ways to fight and not pursue.

I was given a very simple rule to follow, by another poster on these very boards, and it served me well:

Rather than worrying about how my wife would react to something, and how her reaction would make ME feel (my normal nature -- very enmeshed and co-dependent, and a big conflict-avoider), I instead asked myself:

"What is the RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation? What would God Himself have me do, if He were standing right in front of me?"

And then I'd do that. And if I found that I didn't have the COURAGE to do that, I prayed for the courage. And if I didn't have the PATIENCE,, or the LOVE to do it, I prayed for that.

And I prayed for wisdom and discernment every morning, and for God to send people across my path to help me do the right thing.

And I was amazed that He always did.

You can do this.

Puppy

[Coach]

SMW hits one out of the park.

I took a deep breath to keep from crying, and said, “DH, I am willing to make every effort to work things out between us. I believe, in my heart that with hard work and help from God, we can make this marriage work and be even better than it was before. But, I am realistic enough to know that I can not control what you do and say, I can only control me. But know this, I will fight you tooth and nail to protect my kids from living with the pain and hurt and sense of abandonment I have lived with for the past 25 years. He said, I know you will. I said know this, too. As much as I want us to work things out, I will not live in a marriage with three people. The kids and I will get along without you and I am prepared to cut you out of our lives to protect them from being hurt any more than they already have been. There will always be a place in our lives for you, but we have to get on with our lives for now.

[Travis]

Travis' post moved to his own thread. Please respond to him there.

[Ready2Change]

"Really, that's interesting.
I will take it into consideration.
Ok, hmmm.
That's something to think about.
Really?
I'm sorry you feel that way.
Possibly, but I need to see what my L thinks first.
I will need time to think about all this.
Have a nice weekend!"

[Coach]

I read a quote that said it best "EXPECTATIONS ARE PREMEDITATED RESENTMENT". It's ok to have healthy expectations, but in a R to expect our partners to do something without telling them is called "mind-reading" and I've yet to see that work.

[Coach]

Great poem passed on by MsMel :

To let go does not mean to stop caring,
it means I can't do it for someone else.

To let go is not to cut myself off,
it's the realization I can't control another.

To let go is not to enable,
but allow learning from natural consequences.

To let go is to admit powerlessness, which means
the outcome is not in my hands.

To let go is not to try to change or blame another,
it's to make the most of myself.

To let go is not to care for,
but to care about.

To let go is not to fix,
but to be supportive.

To let go is not to judge,
but to allow another to be a human being.

To let go is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes,
but to allow others to affect their destinies.

To let go is not to be protective,
it's to permit another to face reality.

To let go is not to deny,
but to accept.

To let go is not to nag, scold or argue,
but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.

To let go is not to adjust everything to my desires,
but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.

To let go is not to criticize or regulate anybody,
but to try to become what I dream I can be.

To let go is not to regret the past,
but to grow and live for the future.

To let go is to fear less and love more

[Ready2Change]

I know it's not easy to put the focus back on oneself - it took me a long, long time - and I was helped along the most by just a couple simple words written by Coach - those words were: wasted energy.

[Coach]

More insight from Carlos.

My mistake...and I think it's a common one...was to think that I could "save my marriage" through the DB techniques. I could not do that...all I could do - and for this I am grateful for having found the site and the books - was save myself. It took me many, many months to come to terms with the idea of saving myself - and allowing B to travel her journey on her own - but once I did, I understood so much more about what it means to be detached and what it means to love someone in a healthy way.

[lost&confused]

I ask these questions many times a day:
1) Is what I am about to do or say going to draw this person (spouse) closer or push them farther away? Make your choice wisely.
2) Is the decision I am about to make in the best interest of my kids? If it is, then the decision is good for ME.
3) Has this method worked in the past? If not, do something different, maybe a 180....

[/quote]

Thank you so much for this. I'm new here and I've not had any responses to my post, but I've gained so much from everything I've read.

Something happened that upset me today and I thought of this. Numbers 1 & 3 in particular. Number one made me keep my mouth shut, which appears to be disturbing him. LOL! And, number three made me realize that I've been doing the same thing over and over again and, of course, I'm getting the same results.

Thanks again. Keep the quotes coming!

[Ready2Change]

25YearsMLC words of wisdom

[Ready2Change]

– 90 yrs young – a columnist in Ohio.

"To celebrate growing older, I once wrote the 45 lessons life taught me... It is the most-requested column I've ever written. My odometer rolled over to 90 in August, so here is the column once more:


1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.
2. When in doubt, just take the next small step.
3. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone...
4. Your job won't take care of you when you are sick. Your friends and parents will. Stay in touch.
5. Pay off your credit cards every month.
6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree.
7. Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone.
8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.
9. Save for retirement starting with your first pay check.
10. When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.
11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.
12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.
13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about.
14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.
15. Everything can change in the blink of an eye. But don't worry; God never blinks.
16. Take a deep breath. It calms the mind.
17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.
18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger.
19. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.
20. When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take no for an answer.
21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion. Today is special.
22. Over prepare, then go with the flow.
23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple.
24. The most important sex organ is the brain.
25. No one is in charge of your happiness but you.
26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words ’In five years, will this matter?'
27. Always choose life.
28. Forgive everyone everything.
29. What other people think of you is none of your business.
30. Time heals almost everything. Give time time.
31. However good or bad a situation is, it will change.
32. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.
33. Believe in miracles.
34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.
35. Don't audit life. Show up and make the most of it now.
36. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young.
37. Your children get only one childhood.
38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.
39. Get outside every day. Miracles are waiting everywhere.
40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else’s, we’d grab ours back.
41. Envy is a waste of time. You already have all you need.
42. The best is yet to come.
43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up.
44. Yield.
45. Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift.

[Coach]

From SmileyPerson

As just about everyone else has already said, you're doing quite well, though you may not know it. For me, the key to unlocking the process was the thing @aliveandkicking referred to -- this notion that in some sense I'm already divorced because the marriage that I had, the one that started 18 years ago, is over. It ended the day I was told ILYBNILWY, etc. Now that's somewhat against the internal logic of the DB principles, but it worked for me.

I've come to this place where I simply live my life as if the past is past and my current situation is my current situation. In other words, I accept the "brutal reality" of the present.

The one theme I notice recurring in your posts is your focus on WAH and what he wants / needs / does / thinks / etc. And that's pretty typical -- I know I was there. "Should I move away or stay here to be around for H?" What I've found helpful is to frame questions like that as: "Is it better for me to move or stay here to be around for H?" where "better" is defined as "better GIVEN THAT I AM ALREADY DIVORCED."

That, too, was part of it for me; accepting -- not recognizing, not knowing, but affirmatively accepting -- that I am absolutely powerless over WAW. She will make her decisions based upon her evaluations and her needs. While it is true that I can, at least theoretically, influence her evaluations by GAL'ing, etc., at the end of the day she will decide X if she wants X. So I needed to make MY decisions for MY life based on MY evaluations and MY needs -- not hers.

Some have challenged the logic of my process because they suggest it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. After all, the purpose -- at least, the "ultimate" purpose -- of Divorce-Busting is to "Save Your Marriage."

I see the validity of that challenge, but I'm willing to accept the risk because one fact is incontestable -- WAW does not want to be married to me as I am, as our marriage was, at this time. So I grew weary of swimming against that tide. Perhaps -- perhaps -- she might want to be married to me as I am becoming, but that too is beyond my control.

What I understand is that what I was doing wasn't working, either during or after. SO that had to change.

You've got a number of things to cope with. Until you're 100% traveldane, H is pretty unlikely to want to "come back" to someone who was, say, only 50% traveldane. But to get to 100%, I think it's useful to consider that there are some doors you have to go through alone. There are times in our lives when we're not meant to be with anyone but ourselves.

That, too, was difficult for me to get my head around. It was The Fear that had me in its grasp -- I was running. Running from everything. Fearful that any given thing I would do would "ruin it" and be the "final straw."

Until it dawned on me one day that it had already been ruined! That the final straw had already been stacked! How much worse could it get?

And when I stopped being afraid, things got better. Not "marriage" things, mind you -- me things. Which was something else I finally got my head around.

I was not my marriage.

My marriage was not me.

I was part of a marriage; my marriage was part of me. But there's a Whole Lotta Smiley's Person to go around (the line forms on the left, ladies ), and like the Cameron character in Ferris Bueller's Day Off says, "I am not going to sit on my a** as the events that affect me unfold to determine the course of my life. I'm going to take a stand." I took a stand to recognize that my getting married didn't make my life "start," and my getting divorced won't make my life "end."

Now do I hope that my marriage doesn't end? Of course. But hope is not a plan. I have to have a plan in the event it does end. Because WAW had a plan, didn't she?

In your sitch it doesn't sound so much like WAH has a plan. More like he's flailing away in The Darkness. And as much as you'd like to Bring The Light, it's not yours to bring. HE needs to find his way out of The Darkness.

And if he's lucky, he'll find you there on the other side.

But the Luck will be his, not yours, because you will have created The Light.

[Ready2Change]

Journaling

Someone very close to me just reminded me that it is so important to not lose one's perspective. I am starting to think that perspective is the key to a lot of the doors in my life that seem to remain closed to me. I use the word "seem" intentionally...I think they may not be closed at all. Actually, I think there may not even be any doors there at all.

I am constantly telling others not to get too close to their own situations, to take a few steps back so they can see what they are doing and how they get in their own way. Time to heed my own words.

I realized something today - I admit that to everyone who knows me, this would sound so daft, as it would have been so obvoius to them and even to me in a sense - I have an intense need to control anything and anyone that has the potential to hurt me. Okay, this I have always known. Here is the thing I realized today...I am going to get hurt again, and again and again and I am not always going to see it coming and I am not always going to be able to prevent it and if I do not stop trying to do so, I am going to hurt myself far more than would the thing I am trying to prevent.

I am limiting myself and the things and people in my life when I try to control them. Worse, I am allowing myself to live in fear. Here is how I do it and I am a master at it. I let down my guard long enough to let something or someone new into my life, just long enough for it or him or her to matter to me, just close enough so that if I were to lose it, it would really hurt. That's when the fear starts and rather than acknowledging the feeling and just letting it be and pass, I turn all of my attention to it. I bring all of my intellect to bear on ways to prevent the thing I fear from coming to pass. In so doing, ironically, I set in motion the very things most likely to cause the thing I fear to happen. I do this not because I want the thing to happen, I do this because I am convinced it will happen no matter what I do, so I make it happen under my control. Doing this creates for me the illusion that I have spared myself some pain. But I am so, so wrong.

Back to perspective. As I was saying, I was advised to take a step back and get a little perspective on what it is I have been doing. Here is what I see from a few feet back...the reason my behavior is so harmful is because it prevents me from living in and enjoying what I have in the present. I have a lot to be happy about right this very minute. Living in and accepting that all I have is this present moment has been a hard lesson for me to learn. Enjoying something is the very thing that triggers my need to control its loss. Problem is, to engage in that behavior is to assume it will be lost, then, acting on a potentially faulty assumption, set in motion the course to actually lose it. So dumb.

I am writing this to remind myself that this journey we have all undertaken on these boards is to save ourselves (and for some their marriages - no longer the case for me). It is so easy to start believing we are done working on ourselves. We are never done...there is always more we can do.

Thanks for reading this.

Veronica V.

[Ready2Change]

Greetings, PC;

The best way to utilize these forums is to think of us as an on-line "support group," and then tell us your story, as if you were sitting down in front of a group of friends and telling them what happened. How did the relationship begin? What were the early days of your marriage like? How did having children affect your relationship? How did it deteriorate into its current state? You'll start to get good, practical advice when the helpful folks here have as many of the details as possible....paragraphs and pages of them.

So far, we don't have much to go on, and therefore can't give very good advice. All I can suggest to you, from what you've shared is:

(1) Begin a Get-a-Life (GAL) campaign.

If you're depressed and just hanging around in the house, you need to start investing a lot more time and energy on YOURSELF. Improve yourself physically (weight, fitness, health, hair, clothes, etc.); improve yourself mentally (pursue interests, hobbies, sports --> NOT watching TV); improve yourself socially (go out with friends, join a new club or two, sign up for a course or a class -- get out of the house!). There are other ideas and suggestions about GAL activities that can be found on this website.

(2) Read and research your situation.

Pick up a copy of Michele's Divorce Remedy and really study it. Pick up a copy of John Gray's old classic Men are Mars and Women are from Venus, and start educating yourself on the sometimes *stark* differences between men and women and how they interract in relationships. If arguments and unresolved conflicts were a mainstay of your marriage, then pick up a copy of John Gottman's The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, and study that. Once you have a good notion of (a) where you made mistakes in your marriage, and (b) what you can change about yourself that will make you a better partner in the future, then start applying what you have read and learned in small, easy to maintain and monitor steps.

The only person you can change in your marriage is YOURSELF, so that is where you begin. Let your wife do what she's going to do, for now. Take advantage of the break to improve and work on yourself, and your relationship skills.

-- Bagheera.

[Ready2Change]

Next time he starts criticizing you on the phone, say "I refuse to listen to your criticism of me. This conversation is over." click.

[Ready2Change]

Coach's 2009 Game Plan

After reviewing last year, where I started and where I ended up I need to plan for improvement in '09. DBing works because the work is all about you - doesn't matter how it turns out. If you need hope then know that if I can be a "success story" then you have the possibility also.
This time last year was awful. I was not at home over the holidays. We were both very frustrated and nothing improved until after I got D papers and she moved out in July. We did not have to deal with the OP issue (thank God)on either side. I have come to learn she missed me and was struggling inside like I was. Looking back I can see some signs of this but at the time the negative emotions (anger, fear, frustration) blinded me. If you think you can't go on because the heartache is killing you - it get's better and things get better in a quantum leap when the true giving begins. You can hang on one more day but take a step for the better for yourself while doing it. So here are my three resolutions (changes for the better)
1 - make it all about her
I remember reading this and the guys were debating the women whether this was healthy or productive. I struggled with this idea. But I am learning if you make it about her, it's like voting for Pedro - all of your dreams will come true. All this means is "true giving," if she needs it then it is my duty and privilege to provide it for her. Not what I need but her needs. I am not losing myself in this, I feel better than ever about me. It is healthy and productive, she is happier because she is getting the love she needs. I have no expectations in return, it's my responsibilty as her husband. Love your neighbor (spouse) as yourself.
2 - Be not afraid. Part of working on myself was "killing snakes on the brain." Thoughts that held me back or kept me from giving for fear of rejection. I have started risking more of the inner me and it is paying off. I have read it here as well: "fear knocked on the door, faith answered and no one was there." Faith - in God, my wife, and myself.
3- Continuous Improvement
Physically, mentally, emotionally and spirtually
Physical goals - workout 3xwk, run 4xwk, train for next marathon in fall
Mentally - I constantly am at work here: books, clinics, on-line info, feedback, church, friends etc.
Emotionally - listen better (this has been a great change for me that I still need to work on) , learn from feedback, let my thoughts and feelings out to my beloved, communicate in healthy ways, and don't hold onto negative thoughts or stress - get it out.
Spiritually - be grateful for my blessings, love God, keep my family engaged in prayer

Cheers
Coach

ps You can handle it.

[Gardener]

The WA's are more conflicted than we can imagine. Let them work on their own crossword puzzles. You work on you.Got it?

[Ready2Change]

Interesting read

[Ready2Change]

She needs you now and will every day. Not when you feel comfortable. She now thinks she has lost you too and you are confirming that. You are making YOUR PAIN more important than comforting and reassuring her that you ARE in her life NOW and always will be. Your job now is to reassure your d of your love and unwavering presence in HER LIFE...stop whining and man up to being a good father. Worry about your W a lot less and your d a lot more. Now.

[mac-ct]

A poem written in a few minutes for my WAW. No idea which forum this should be on - if any!

In this instant

You could be here warm in my arms instead of alone on the end of a couch.
You could be talking to me instead of listening to others.
You could be doing what you want instead of being told what to do.
You could be laughing with friends instead of them listening to your sadness.
You could be warm in our bed instead of alone in yours and cold.
You could be waking up to a smile instead of looking in the mirror and wondering if this day will ever end.
You could be helping where you can in your own home instead of feeling you need to repay a debt.
You could put a smile on peoples faces instead of a frown of concern.
You could be watching rugby and cricket instead if football!
You could be on the Internet instead of stuck in the dark.
You could enjoy a rainbow instead of wishing the rain would end.
You could listen to gentle snoring instead of wondering why it was so quiet!
You could listen to sad music with a smile instead of thinking it was written about you.
You could be using the phone instead of waiting for a call.
You could be looking forward to arriving home instead of dreading the arrival at someone elses.
You could be driving our car instead of waiting for a lift.
You could be making love instead of wondering if you'll ever find it again.
And you could see the love in my eyes instead of nothing you see now.
You could choose to stay and make a difference instead of feeling forced away.
You could choose to cry tears of joy instead of tears of hurt.

You could change all of this in the blink of an eye or the flap of a butterfly wing if you choose.

Listen to your heart and friends.
You have so many that you don't listen to but instead you talk at them about things past.

Look to the future.

Listen to them and your heart.

Time is on our side.

[healthydad]

Inspirational post from VeronicaV.

The day he left, I was on the floor, sobbing like I never have in my life and after a while, something inside of me clicked and I found myself telling myself to stand up, just stand up - so I did. Looking back, I know in that moment that I decided to survive. I kept on crying and did for months and months, but the standing up, picking myself up - alone - getting up off of the floor, showed me that I had made the decision to fight to get my happiness back...and I have.

[VeronicaV]

Brilliant advice from Carlos (Healthydad)...

"From all that you've said, it didn't seem to me like you should be dark when it comes to your W - that's very much an extreme response to an extreme situation - and so if you still have some possibilities of communication, by all means, keep them open - just do so with a perspective shift - talking with her as an exercise in listening, rather than wanting to be heard - and remembering that if she's sharing anything with you about why she's unhappy that you should not disagree with her or argue with her - sometimes what she might say is clear as day to her - sometimes it comes from her own pain and confusion - and either way - listening, being there to listen - and not to solve, interfere or question her is a way to express your detached, healthy love without imposing your will on her in any way."

If we could all just remember to love this unselfishly it would be a much better world. Thank you, Carlos.

[Eskimo Nell]

Counseling first, then we'll talk about divorce if that doesn't work. "Well it won't! I want out! I want a D!" I would say "I understand. You've explained this to me before and again, I would like counseling so I can be as sure as you." Infuriated him. I told him "This conversation is old, you always get so upset, so maybe you should stop bringing it up?" Eventually, he did.

From 'Stonger' ... which has helped me greatly. I am adapting it to fit several situations, not just D talk ...

[Ready2Change]

Like my cute little guy Yoda said... "Do or do not. There is no try."

The point here is that it is a conscious decision. A choice you have to make. And until you make that choice, you will continue spinning your wheels.

[are you kidding]

In late May my wife had a death in her family and she has been under a lot of stress,work,home,money.By July "accept if I want to stay with a man that will not change." "I talk for my husband,told to focus on me."What she didn't know is I have wanted to change a lot.Like most men wait until it becomes a crisis. It started she said she was "broken" and "numb" no feeling at all to extreme anger to me,she says terrible things to me,but it would be ok,fortunately "more good than bad."August "hope we get through this too, you're not helping your cause." "I want to be alone."She is showing a lot of signs of a midlife crisis.we are currently seperated she is seeing a counselor I am seeing a counselor,that has a hunch at somepoint this would have happened regardless of who she married after meeting w/ her he said she said i never offered emotional support?, we are not going together,she is seeing someone for her issues me for ours.Late July she said she did love me,i didn't realize i was pushing and it spiraled down hill too quick.we have been seperated for 2 months and our relationship has not gotten anybetter.I am following the last resort techniques and changing myself found out I have ADD working a 40 hr wk vs 65,reading books,phone sessions,focusing on myself and kids.Oh we are currently switching weeks at the house,but she is saying don't worry about her focus on me build a relationship on the kids.Only positive is email about the kids, no texts about us or calls or discussion about us from her or me.Did tell me she is seeing her counselor and her counselor knows everything about me, wife doesn't know, but I have seen this counselor a lot,too,but counselor isn't telling me what my wife says, but she knows my intentions.But I am the only one her tone of voice changes with if she talks to me.She is seeing this counselor to help her find her voice and empower herself and will not take any suggestions from me even as a friend.Ideas would be great.
Is there a difference between a female or males midlife crisis?Or is this a WAW with a lot of built up anger?Can someone tell me what to expect and chances of putting this back together?I have always been committed to her and kids.She has built a relationship with a neighbor who has told me they have a "brother/sister relationship."I do not think they are intimate.He is older,but they do a lot for eachother and talk nonstop,he even offered her his house this week while I have kids.Wife's counselor knows this,too.
HELP!!!
Lived together since 19
Married 15yrs
Both 37
2 children 14yr old g, 11yr old b
all yrs of marriage worked seperate shifts,she handled finances

[Coach]

Then we talked about intimacy, not the physical kind, and she told me to take heart about the verbal/emotional intimacy we've been building.

DB Coach: That's the *real* intimacy in a relationship; not the sex. It's the sharing of your innermost thoughts and feelings, trusting your partner with vulnerabilities, insecurities, warts and all. If you can listen, validate and make him safe sharing those things with you, *thats* intimacy.

[Steve McQueen]

And SP, as for woman, any relationship between a man and a woman which is close and not yet sexual is frightening because as woman we put a lot of emphasis on that form of intimacy.

Sex is a big deal, but most woman can get any man to bed. To engage with a man through language and other non sexual forms of communication and hold his interest is very threatening for any third party involved.

[Ready2Change]

I asked DB coach about this and he said "Which would be better? Being on the trip with W when she doesn't want you there, or not being on the trip, and having her miss you..."

[Ready2Change]

...And I fell into my old patterns.... Why can't I change?

Making personal changes to our thoughts, actions, words and reactions take practice. We do the best we can and continue our commitment for personal growth. Tools such as Forgiveness, Patience, Understanding, Empathy, Boundaries help us change.

[Coach]

Old dogs can learn new tricks:

Hi Belle,

I think you need to use this 90 days to just turn it -- and turn your husband -- over to God. Only He can change his heart, and it sounds like your husband is still all about "me, me, me" and not displaying any deep and meaningful changes or character at this point.

"This is your mess; you need to clean it up" needs to be your mantra, and also "Commit nothing; expect nothing." If he promises you a bunch of changes, or even that he's now BEGUN them (and I suspect that he will, now that you've filed), then just say "That's good; I'm glad you're doing those things, for your own sake." If he asks you anything more specific, I would just say "I'm always open to what God has in store for my life, so I NEVER say 'never,' but for now, I have moved on," and let it lie at that.

One of the saddest and scariest things I ever did was to TRULY give my wife over to God. Oh, I thought I already had, but I hadn't REALLY, and it was one day -- when I was mowing the lawn, of all things! -- that I just gave her over to Him, and so there I was, tears streaming down my face as I continued to mow my lawn in the hot humidity of a Florida summer day.

That was only a few months ago, TWO YEARS after my wife's affair was started (and ended), that I truly "gave it over." It's like I had SAID all the right things, in prayer, to God about turning IT over, but I hadn't truly given HER over, kwim? So suddenly it hits me, who am I to NOT TRUST GOD HIMSELF to take care of her??? What, like I can do a better job of it than HE can?? It was earthly hubris and arrogance of me, and I was convicted for that attitude, and so I just . . . let it go.

Let HER go.

And the thing is, I believe THAT is when, I truly started to get her back, now that I look back on it. Don't get me wrong, I was dead 100% sincere and really WAS letting her go when I prayed it -- it wasn't some "trick" to get her back -- I was done, and was moving on. But now that I look back on the last couple of months, and all of the significant things that have happened in my marriage, I really think that it started that day as I mowed my lawn and just pictured in my spirit me holding my wife in my arms, carrying her, and laying her at the foot of the Cross and saying "You need to take care of her now. I have done the best I could, you KNOW I have, but I just can't do it anymore. Please love her, and take good care of her, and continue to let me know what I should do."

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

I like to figure out the worst possible scenario (outcome), and then visualize myself handling it confidently, and strongly. Once you face down your worst fears, you find you're very well prepared to deal with the medium-sized ones, b/c it almost always turns out to be better than the worst-case scenario you came up with.

[Ready2Change]

This stuff IS difficult -- probably the most difficult (and also counter-intuitive) -- thing you will have ever had to do.

But it should NOT be "perplexing."

In fact, this "script" that we often talk about, can be used to your advantage. In fact, I can help you predict just about everything he's going to do, before he does it. Between me (who knows affairs, and their "scripts") and you (who knows your husband better than anyone on the planet besides himself), don't you think it's very reasonable for us to think we can predict NOW what he will try to do, or what he'll try to NOT to?

I was told this by a parenting seminar guy once, but it applies to wayward marriages, too: the mistakes we make (as parents/LBSs) is that we don't anticipate what our (child/cheating spouse) is likely to do or say, and to PLAN AHEAD OF TIME how we are going to handle it. Instead, we get caught up in the anger of the moment, and we REACT -- usually, poorly, and unproductively.

In fact, not to swing a 2x4 at you, but you've been very reactionary, haven't you?

Well, resolve that that's going to start changing, RIGHT NOW. If you have to, write it out, and rehearse it out loud when you're alone. Write out the script as if it were a play, and you are the playwrite, and write down what your husband is going to say and do, and then practice what YOU are going to say or do to respond to him.

Calmly. Forcefully. With conviction, and great eye contact.

I'm a salesman by trade, and I'm pretty damned good at it, and I'm also very social and not at ALL shy. But when it comes to confrontations, I SUCK AT IT, and this really helped me when I had to do my initial confrontation -- and then my RE-confrontation -- of my wife.

And, if I may be so bold . . . I NAILED THAT SUCKA!!! grin grin

Make TODAY the day you STOP REACTING to him, and HIS agenda. Cuz guess what? HE (and his girlfriend) do NOT have your marriage's -- or your family's -- best interests at heart right now. So why would you let someone who doesn't have its best interests at heart, dictate the rules and timeline?

YOU need to do that. You won't be able to control ALL of it, but you CAN begin to exert some influence, using your husband's own predictability to your advantage.

[Ready2Change]

You do NOT need to tell your kids that you agree with this, and in fact, you shouldn't. "Your mother and I disagree, I do not want a divorce right now, but I accept her decision and we both still love you very much" -- something like that.

I absolutely think you should find out what she told them, but I wouldn't ask leading questions. Just "what did she tell you?", and then listen to what they say. Do not lie to cover up her affair. In difficult times like this for children, they need to know that at least ONE parent will always tell them the truth.

[TrentC]

In response to someone whose WAW was dealing with ending an affair:

One way I've seen it handled (Hope4Us has been really good with this) is to use it as an opportunity to talk about the consequences/dynamics/etc. of infidelity; validating, without enabling. So maybe something like:

"I hate to see you hurting, and I understand you feel partially responsible for his pain. This (notice I didn't say "but") is a consequence of him deciding to have an affair with a married woman, and he's just going to have to work thru it with his family" (or whatever)

[Dudess]

You can stand there like a rock and scream from the mountain top that you're going to stand for your marriage and for what's right but that isn't going to get her attracted to you.

[Eskimo Nell]

"The grass is always greener on the other side till the neighbors dog shits in it. Be the dog".

Sorry - can't remember who posted this but it's a good giggle - and so very true!

[Ready2Change]

Everyday users on this forum will post an unknown number of replies & questions dealing with their relationships & marriages and every post boils down to some variation of...

"What should I do? I've read the other threads on this forum but my situation is unique..."

Bottom line, nothing in this world is new anymore. As much as you think your situation is unique, it really is a variation of quite a few common themes that you see posted & replied to regularly in these forums.

You may have heard the term, "WAS script".
Well "script" implies that the WAS (man or woman) will say & do things that are common for a person that wants to leave a relationship/marriage. My personal favorite is "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore". Impressive that with so many unique marital situations that this particular statement re-occurs on a regular basis.

What else is not unique in many of your situations: TIME.
In most if not all of your respective situations, it has taken months and more probably years for your relationships to get to to their current status. It took alot of time to get to where you are, it took alot of time for the damage to accumulate to a point where your spouse made a decision to leave the relationship and you all have to realize that it's going to take a long time to get your relationship back if that's even a possibility.

Guarantees... there are none. Know this. Accept this.
You can do everything right in your current journey of busting your divorce and still not get your spouse back. There are no guarantees in life. No one knows what tomorrow will bring and you can't predict or control the future. But.... (and you know I like big buts) you all have a chance. As long as your heart beats, as long as you have a spring in your step, a smile on your face and the willingness to improve yourself and be the kind of spouse you would want to have (change begins & ends with the person you stare at in the mirror everyday) then you have a chance, a very good chance - it's not a guarantee but it's better than nothing at all.

You all come here looking for a solution. Years of marital problems, personal neglect, spousal neglect along with countless other issues and you all come here looking for a solution because your spouse has told you in one way or another "I've had enough and I don't want this marriage anymore."

This happened to all of you in one way or another and I don't care how "unique" your situation is, your spouse finally communicated to you in person that they wanted to leave you or they had an affair with another person which pretty much indicates the same thing.

So what prompted you to action? Crisis, fear of loss. It was only when you were faced with losing something that you finally decided to act.

Regardless of how "blind" you might have been during the marriage/relationship, you all had some clues & indicators that your spouse wasn't happy. You just thought you would plug along as you have been doing, thinking that your spouses would get out of their funk eventually and just be loving & caring. Maybe some of you felt that the other spouse had to change because they had "changed" into someone you didn't recognize anymore and you weren't going to fix anything until they fixed it, it was their responsibility, their fault, since they are married, they had an obligation to do something as well. Yes this is all very "unique".

Here is also something "unique".... you all want an answer NOW.
How do I do this? How do I respond when they do this? What is my next move? Should I do this and employ this tactic? What do I say when they do this? My personal favorite: How do I GAL when they've moved away and won't even notice my changes?

Yes you're all very "unique".

You all want to fix your relationships now, something that is also "unique". I want results now, I NEED RESULTS NOW! Read those words, think about the times that you yourself may have even said those things or something similar or even just thought about it. Reflect on how needy you've become, how insecure you've become, how unattractive that behavior really is: ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!

I've said it before, consumerism isn't just alive & well at the shopping malls. It's alive & well in your relationships. I want something new, improved, better, faster, stronger, and I want it NOW! It took years to create the problems that you are a part of but you all want a fix now. The microwave isn't fast enough, the car isn't fast enough, high speed internet isn't fast enough, the computer definitely isn't fast enough and there aren't enough hours in the day. Do any of you recognize the recurring theme here? You all want what you want and you all want it NOW!

Well your marriage isn't a microwave dinner and you aren't going to be able to nuke it and make it ready in 30 seconds. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can start doing the real work which takes time, effort, consistency of action (which builds trust) and the willingness to do things that you haven't done before, something that the "old" you wouldn't have done because the "old" you was boring and not willing to adapt & change.

You want to be efficient at cooking dinner, go for it.
You want to be efficient at work, go for it.
You want to be efficient at doing the laundry and taking care of your homes, go for it.

When it comes to your relationships and repairing the damage that took years to build up and destroy your marriages, there is no 30 second nuke button to hit. The repair process takes time, it takes a long time to heal a heart, it takes a long time to rebuild trust, it takes a long time to fix a relationship because it took a long time to break it.

This is a common fact for you all of you. This process will take time, alot of time. Trying to implement a quick fix will actually slow down your progress - that is the only guarantee I can provide to all of you. Trying to force your relationship to heal at a quicker pace will cause more damage. You will inevitably reveal to your spouse how selfish you are and that the only reason you want to recover this relationship is for you and not for them and they will see through that.

The "BS-meter", all of your WAS's are equipped with this piece of equipment, if you're not sincere in your efforts they will be able to tell and it will erase any progress you've made and even set you back a few steps.

Slow is fast, Fast is slow - tattoo this to your foreheads if you can't remember it.

I can't count how many situations I've read in these various forum posts where the LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you. You are all very "unique" in this respect. You all do this or will do this in your own "unique" ways.

Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.

Rebuild yourself, change yourself for you first. Become a better person for you. Reclaim your individuality. You were an individual before you were a part of this relationship with your WAS. It was your individuality that made you attractive, learn what it is to become you again, enjoy being you, continue pressing forward, personal development is a lifelong process, don't be lazy with yourself, be the best you that you can be.

The repair process is slow, anyone preaching a quick fix does not know what they're talking about.

There are also many methods to possibly accomplish the herculean task of repairing your marriage, "busting your divorce". Many of us will have many ideas on what you can do to accomplish this task. None are guaranteed to work, remember there are no guarantees. But if you fail to act, you are acting to fail and will achieve those results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. So one piece of advice that will be common to all of you, do things differently from what you are doing now and please stop whining and saying "I can't do this", "I can't do that", it's that same attitude that got you into this mess to begin with - you can do it, you just don't want to do it and it's that same attitude that prompted your WAS to leave you.

You all have questions, you all want advice, you all have pain, you all claim to love your spouses but your past actions with them might indicate otherwise, you all want your spouses back - and yet you all claim to have "unique" situations.

Give yourself the time to find those answers to those questions, give yourself time to improve yourself for you first and then your children, don't change for your spouse - that is definitely the wrong thing to do, remember the "BS-meter" that I mentioned previously. Give yourself time to heal from your pain, admit to yourself that if your spouse has hurt you, they may not be able to do anything to rectify that with you, you in the end have the ability to forgive them for what they may have done, that is within your control and that is your choice. Allow them the same courtesy, to heal within their own amount of time, allow them the choice of forgiving you and realize that no one owes you anything.

If you pray to GOD (and if you don't maybe you should but then again, that is YOUR choice), pray for CLARITY so that you have a clear mind that your vision is restored so that you can see clearly enough to know what you want and know what you have to do. Pray for the CONFIDENCE to take action on the choices you make and pray for WISDOM to choose wisely.

Stop praying for a quick fix to your problems, it doesn't exist.
There is no QUICK SOLUTION.

And if you want to truly be "UNIQUE", start by doing things that you normally wouldn't do, start by letting go of the need to control others and realize that you can only control your thoughts & actions. Respect your WAS's decision to leave you, you gave them reason to do so, if you want them back you will need to give them a reason to come back and that doesn't mean calling them and making them feel guilty for their actions. You want the reason they come back to you to be because they want to be with you and you can only promote that kind of feeling in others by making changes in yourself that would allow that kind of environment to exist and know that the changes you make in yourself aren't being done for your spouse, they're being done because you ultimately want to live a great life and you realize how you were living before wasn't great.

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you and especially those of you that feel like doormats in your current situations: Grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself. It’s impossible to truly love yourself & draw self esteem from within if you are letting people walk all over you. Every time you let someone treat you badly your self esteem drops just a little bit. If you can't respect yourself, how can you expect others to respect you, how can you expect others to love you?

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you that happen to unfortunately be in abusive relationships: Love yourself and respect yourself enough to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you - it is one of the toughest lesson's you will ever learn but also the most rewarding.

I wish all of you "unique" db'ers a good day,
hopefully some of you saw yourselves in the examples listed above and hopefully you have some additional clarity into what you are currently doing.

[EJohn]

This is perfect. Just the thing I needed today.

[Ready2Change]

When you do (insert action), I feel (emotion) because (how it specifically makes me feel).

For example, when my daughter makes plans without consulting me and screws up my schedule.

"When you schedule your voice lesson without checking with me, I feel disrespected because what I have planned doesn't seem to matter."

It comes off better than telling her "she's selfish".

[Ready2Change]

I am here to help remind you & others what they came here for in the first place.

This is tough stuff, the kind of stuff that tests your spirit everyday, makes you waffle back & forth, makes you sell yourself out of a marriage one day because the results aren't what you expect compared to the effort you're putting into this and then buy yourself back into your marriage the next day at a price you never wanted to pay.

Don't think for a minute that I don't feel your frustration, your pain, the anxiety, the uncertainty, the longing, the guilt, the pain, the insecurity, the desire, mental anguish and the pain in your heart.

I feel it.

I'm just trying to remind you of what your original goal was.

I'm not here to force you to do anything, in fact you will be successful regardless if you bust this divorce or not, because you will have decided on what path to take that is best for you & your children and you will have the courage to take that path to it's ultimate conclusion, whatever that is.

[JCJ]

posted by 25yearsmlc

If your life were a novel, who would you say is writing yours? How's this chapter going? Is it flowing the way you want your life to flow? Bet not, I bet that lately you have not been the author of your own life's novel ---so how about writing the next word/paragraph/page, chapter and the rest of this book all by yourself? It's time to be the author of your own life and take charge of it.

[TrentC]

At Puppy Dog Tails' suggestion...

I am a very firm believer in the fact that God puts people in our lives for different reasons/at different seasons.

I once told Mac the following and I try to remember it everyday:

"God will send the right people to our life at the right time. We must first let the wrong people walk away. The wrong people will use our weaknesses to stay in our lives. If we don't let the wrong people walk away, we'll miss God's best."

The people here I believe are God's best...

Sent here for different reasons...

Think about it...

We are all basically going through almost the exact same thing, found ourselves losing it all, came upon either the book or the website, connected with one another to then draw strength, faith, empathy, compassion, encouragement, love and friendship and we are all strangers...

We share thoughts, fears, worries, doubts, things that some consider TMI, we laugh, we cry, we mourn, we rejoice...

We help one another out all without ever meeting...

If you don't believe in God, that right there should at least put a seed of doubt in your mind.

[TrentC]

Two in the same day!

Here's another story (called the Picnic Analogy)that helps show what you are trying to do (and I copied this from someone else):

THE PICNIC ANALOGY

Imagine that the WAS is inside an impenetrable castle. WAS is deep inside the castle walls and has no desire to see the outside world. WAS has his/her own world right there inside those cold, stone walls.

Then there's you. You're sitting on the other side of the moat (drawbridge is up, btw). You've got a nice blanket laid out on the cool, green grass, and you're enjoying yourself by having a wonderful picnic all alone. You're absolutely content with this, and aren't even concerned with the castle and the WAS within (in fact, you've got your back to it).

Eventually, WAS gets a little curious about the what's going on outside the castle, and decides to take a peak over the walls. WAS sees you, just sitting there enjoying yourself. He/She is surprised, because previously you had been throwing rocks at the castle, singing and dancing in hopes of getting their attention. WAS is wondering what you're up to, and why you're so content. After a while, WAS decides to lower the drawbridge and join you at your picnic. WAS sits down, and you just act as if -- you're happy, confident, etc. Suddenly, WAS realized where he/she is and what he/she is doing, and it scares the hell out him/her. WAS jumps up and dashes back to the castle for no apparent reason. You however, didn't even budge or flinch. WAS peeks back out to see what you're doing, and notices that you're still sitting in the same place, enjoying yourself without concern. Again, WAS is surprised, and eventually comes out again. This time WAS stays a little longer, but again gets spooked and runs back. However, you're still not deterred from enjoying your picnic. The WAS's visits begin to happen more and more, and they last longer and longer. Once he/she realizes that there is no risk for him/her (i.e. that you won't bring up the R, pursue her, get angry, become needy, etc), WAS begins to reflect on things, and begins questioning his/her choice to go to the castle. In time, WAS decides to bring up the R, and this is when you can discuss it with him/her because WAS is ready and has initiated the talk.

THIS is why it is important to avoid pursuing, because it gives the WAS the opportunity to miss you, reflect, see your changes and strength, etc. So, the next time me or anyone else tells you to just enjoy your picnic, you'll know what it means. This is a term that we used a lot this summer, but it kind of went away. I think it describes the pursuit dynamic perfectly. Don't chase the WAS back into the castle and hold him/her captive by standing outside the walls and trying to get his/her attention. As long as this is the case, it is likely that they'd rather starve themselves in their castle than come out.

[Ready2Change]

Forgiveness does not mean minimizing what he has done. But it does mean letting go of the opportunity to "balance the scales".

[Ready2Change]

I was listening to a radio program "Win at Life" this weekend, and here are two good word definitions:

Patience : waiting with contentment.

Perseverance: Fighting the battle while waiting with contentment.

[Ready2Change]

The choice is yours if you want to keep reacting (interacting) the same way to spouse and getting the same results, or change the way YOU react to spouse and get different results.

[Ready2Change]

Remember, every time you have backed off your wife runs toward you. THIS WORKS. Keep up the activities that WORK. Pursuing her doesn't, rejecting her does. Weird isn't it? ... or as @robx likes to call it: counter-intuitive.

[Ready2Change]

It sounds like you guys have communication issues. Quite frankly, I suspect that's present in just about everyone's situations here (mine included).

It also sounds like your self esteem is not where it should be. It's ok, I was there too. But, it is something you must address. If you are not happy with yourself, there's no way you can be happy with anyone else.

The pattern you describe in your situation, with H not telling you anything was up for a while, is, sadly, very common. If you read other's situations, you will see that in MANY, if not most.

I know you are probably pretty down right now, but things will get better. I have made some dramatic improvements in my life throughout this process. Things I never would have imagined. Many of the suggestions in DB'ing, and on these boards, will seem counter-intuitive, b/c they are. But, they work. You just have to have faith.

For now, the most important thing is to stop any and all discussion/actions your H might perceive as pursuit by you. Pursuit = pressure, and it will only drive your H away faster. So, while it will be hard, stop. What your H needs most right now is space.

Another suggestion I will give you, and one that everyone here seems to agree on, is DO NOT MOVE OUT of the house. If he moves out, you can't control it, but you stay put, unless there is an issue of physical harm, etc. (which I did not hear in your post).

Also, you should refuse to engage in any discussion with him that turn into him yelling at you. No one deserves that kind of treatment, and it is not productive. If he begins yelling, tell him you very calmly you will not have a yelling match with him and unless he stops yelling, you will walk out. That yelling is disrespectful, and you will no longer tolerate it. If he continues to yell at you, calmly walk out of the room. This should be a boundary issue for you.

Here is a list I found from another poster here early on in my situation, and it has always helped me:

1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.

2. Don't despair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.

3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathysing with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".

4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.

5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own time frame.

6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.

7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.

8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)

9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.

10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.

[Ready2Change]

Originally Posted By: LiveToLearn -Do I start with a romance faze?

No, you go back to a DETACHMENT phase, and then if she ever asks you to take her back again, you do so with BOUNDARIES and CONDITIONS.

[Ready2Change]

Bowtech's Notes

[Ready2Change]

There is someone else...

The biggest clue is that a normal person who didn't have someone else in the picture would say this when you told them you were sorry for your mistakes and want to make them right...

"Well, what do I have to lose? I guess I can give it another chance since he seems so sincere. We do have a history together so I guess I can see if he is serious."

You see? They really have nothing to lose. When there is nobody else they are open to your changes.

Now. When they DON'T want to try, then it is a sure bet that they are emotionally invested somewhere else. Did you ever watch the Tarzan movies? He swings from vine to vine. HOWEVER, he doesn't let go of one vine UNTIL he has the next one in his grasp. He then stops thinking about the vine he just had his security invested in and is now invested in the new vine.

That is how it usually goes with humans.They hang on to the vine that they have with a tight grasp until the next vine is within their grasp. They kinda hold on to both vines at once until they are sure they next vine is secure enough to let go of the last one. If they have no new vine coming at them then they keep swinging on the one they have within their grasp. They don't let go if there is no other vine. Too scary.


This is why you must find out the truth. You can't bust the divorce without all the facts. The reasons she is giving you most certainly don't make sense UNLESS there is someon new.

[Ready2Change]

Remember, when in doubt, say "I don't know how I feel about that; let me think about it and get back to you".

[Ready2Change]

Validate his feelings, "I can see how you feel like ____________ when ____________ . However this is what I really think__________________."

[Ready2Change]

you rather I lay it out and tell you how I see her and the stitch you're in...rather than soft soap it and give you a hug and tell you everything is going to be okay? You can get that from your friends & family. This board is to put the light on the areas you need to see. The fact that it is hard to hear anything negative about your W is b/c you still love her and it's natural to feel that way. She sounds like a tough gal to me.

[Ready2Change]

I guess when he mentioned coming home I just expected him to naturally talk to me about it when he got here.

How'd that work for you?

I would like to know how people who have reconciled after a separation get back into the swing of things???

Communication - validation, listening, empathy, compassion

identifying and dealing with issues - solutions

transparency

avoiding old dysfunctional habits

saying what is on your mind - don't be afraid of what the other might think

boundaries - differentiation

practice true giving - LLs, no expectations

re-committing

That should get you started. You can handle it.

[Ready2Change]

One important note here: do NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, reveal to your husband your source of intel!!

It can work to your strong advantage that he doesn't know what you know, and he doesn't know what you DON'T know . . . ya know??? If/when you decide to confront him, a blanket "Oh, I know all about you and ________ . How incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage and to our family."

Think about that for a few minutes: he knows that you know, but he doesn't know WHAT you know. It's a distinct moment of power, in an often powerless situation.

Puppy

[Steve McQueen]

I taught this might be an important source of reference for those that are hearing some stories that seem too far fetched to be true:

G -

Let's just talk about her NAILS!!!

I'm not sure if you glean this from my posts, but I'm fairly high maintenance (in a cute, subtle, way... LOL), and let me tell you, I have NEVER taken more than an hour and a half at the nail salon.

MORE QUESTIONS:

Does she have acrylic/gel nails? IF SO, they don't need to be "filled" weekly. I get mine done every two weeks, and some women can go three weeks. IF NOT, I can understand a weekly manicure, as "au natural" nails don't hold a manicure longer than a few days, seriously, at best.

NAIL FILL TIME - MAX 1 hour
MANICURE TIME - MAX 45 minutes

And, she has a WEEKLY PEDICURE! Holy crap! She must have some baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad feet! I get a full pedicure about once a month (in the summer!), and every two weeks (in the winter), and a polish change only in between. PEDICURE's LAST!

PEDICURE - MAX 35 minutes

She must have some flippin' commute! Does she do anything else? Waxing? (MAX 30 minutes) Massage? (Depends on service) BOTOX? (15 minutes) Chemical Peels? (45 minutes)

Now, let's talk about color and highlights!!!

Sorry, had to get that all out immediately.

[mindfull]

Steve... LOL!

Oh, sure quote me on something that makes me look ... so ... shallow!

Hope it helps someone!





PS - Cut, Color and Highlights - 2 1/2 hours MAX

[Ready2Change]

Here are links to two good threads:

Detachment Thread


Boundaries Thread

[chatterbug]

The sooner the LBH can start to focus on how he can be a better person (man), the sooner he starts to feel a lot better. His self-esteem begins to grow and his personality takes on a new shine. It does help to get out and socialize, b/c if you don't then all you can think about is the stitch. Look at it this way.....when you are helping yourself...you are helping the M.

Anything Sandi writes is worthy of quoting. That woman can write. She has a great gift. And shares it with us daily. Unconditional Love from Sandi. Its a beautiful thing. Anyone new this site who needs grounding. Look up Sandi2 and read and learn.

[P17]

Going dark is a parallel path. You protect yourself. But at the same time you protect what little love you have left for that person. A small opening in your heart for that day when you both decide to begin a new journey together. They will need that footing more than you. We were betrayed. Remember the following sentance.

1. You know that your lover will make decisions that impact your wellbeing and future without your input. Without dicussion. Without consent.
2. You know that your lover has boundary issues with the opposite sex.
3. You know that your lover has the capacity to become a phycological liar to support these decisions.

This is what we have to forgive. Do not freely give this away. This must be earned. True Remorse for ones actions.

You give this away. And you will have learned nothing. The only gift you gave will be bitterness. By one of you or both.

We were placed on this planet to live a fulfilling life.

Not to carry a torch for the person who lacerated our hearts.

Parallel path.

Its a very basic concept. One I choose to follow. Either way. I am victorious. The choices in this journey are many.

[sgctxok]

I like that. It's not unChristian. Even God has a condition...you must chose Him.

[sgctxok]

Anything Sandi writes is worthy of quoting. That woman can write. She has a great gift. And shares it with us daily. Unconditional Love from Sandi. Its a beautiful thing. Anyone new this site who needs grounding. Look up Sandi2 and read and learn.


I agree. I'm thankful for Sandi.

[Ready2Change]

Sandi, I've been told your advice is helpful.....Please help me with this.....I am struggling and it just might be too late....I need to do everything just right this time as it might be my last chance.....

Well, I was almost a WAW and I was in an EA with OM. My H found out and began to smother me and tell me he loved me, etc. The thing was.....I had wanted him to pay attention to me a long time ago. Now, I felt it was too late. My attention was on OM, and for my H to tell me he loved me was.....well...almost sickening. I know guys hate to hear a woman say that, but I'm trying to get you to see how a person's mind will work when you are pushing yourself on them. You see, I knew that my H was saying "ILY" just to try and make me say it back to him. I hated that! I think your W is saying "ILY" to see if you'll say it back to her...and when you do, then she knows she still has you in her hip pocket.

There's a saying around here about S's who get to have OP and keep everything at home, too. It's called eating cake and your W is eating cake...big time. It is up to you to take the cake away.

As a woman, I can tell you that if my H had dropped me like a hot potato and went looking at other chicks.....I would have probably broke my neck to get his attention back on me. Now...you are in a great position where you are. You are not living with her and you can go out anytime you want to and see whoever you want. Trust me, she'll hear about you going out and if she has any fire left in her bones....she'll start to feel the heat!

I know that you still love your W and you aren't interested in seeing any other woman, but just as it's normal to want what we can't have, it's also good to feel a little bit jealous when we think we don't care about a person.....know what I mean?

Making personal changes about yourself is a very important task, but going out and having a life that makes you more interesting and personable REALLY helps! Always look as sharp as a tack and smell good enough to gobble up! Have a big smile and act as if all is great with the world. That helps to set you up for expanding your social circle and also......(here's the good part) others who see you will tell your W how fantastic you looked and how HAPPY you seem to be!

Do you know that some men are afraid of doing that b/c they are scared their W will think he doesn't want to get back with her? Don't be that man. Trust me......it will work sooooo much better than what you are doing now. B/c, frankly, I don't think what you are doing now is going to work at all.

Okay....the next thing is to stop calling her. I thought it was kind of sad how she had you running around like her little erran boy. Here you thought you were being a really nice guy, weren't you? The truth is that you have to stop being a nice guy to her. She will not appreciate your nice ways. My H was the nicest man on earth and I walked all over him, disprespected him, and sure didn't appreciate or desire him. He was always there for my beck & call. If I wanted him to go across town and get me something special to drink.....he would do it regardless of what time of night it was. Isn't that about the same as you're doing?

A woman must respect a man before she can love him. Your W doesn't respect you or she would not be involved with OM. Don't let her fool you just b/c she's saying, "ILY". You want her to desire you and want to spend the rest of her life with you, right? Okay, so you have to make yourself unavailable to her by means of no contact. Don't call, email, TM, voice mail.....nothing! If she calls you, don't pick the phone up....let it go to voice mail. Then, wait for an hour or two (depending on the time and what it's about) before you return her call. Keep it very brief and you be sure that you end the conversation first (that's important). It's important b/c you are so busy with this great life you are finding and you just don't have time to waste. Get the picture? People are usually drawn to a person who has a busy, exciting, interesting, full life.....and she's no exception. She will be more than a little curious to know what has suddenly come along to cause you to be so distracted.

Detachment....that is a word you hear a lot around the boards. You have to act deatched from your W. It is attractive to her. Yes, I know it seems opposite from what it should...but that is how it works.....and you want to do what works....not what you think should work.

Detachment is an attitude, and at first you have to fake it, but as you go out and start to get involved doing hobbies, sports, whatever you like to do.....you will discover that you can finally begin to breathe without thinking about her. Detachment comes easier to some than others, but if you will keep telling yoursel that she needs you to be unavailable & detached in order to be attractive, I bet you can do it!

What about the times you "have" to see her? Well, then you make sure you are looking good and talking upbeat. Never hang around as if you are waiting to see if she has anything to say......you always be in a hurry and have something planned that you are getting ready to do, go to, or whatever.....but you have better things to do than wait around to see if she has any crumbs to throw your way, right?

So make yourself some plans. Get your newspaper out and see what all is going on around town that you can get involved in. This time of year should have all sorts of things. Be sure you are not home on New Year's Eve. I think I remember that you have a son? Be sure that you tell her that you can't keep him that night b/c you have made plans. If you've been keeping him most weekends (don't know what the arrangements are) you need to let her know in a subtle way that you need weekends free sometimes, too! And, if you should happen to be away some night and she calls......well.........

BTW, you don't reveal to her your plans when you tell her that. Even when she tries to pick it out of you about what you're doing and where you're going......just smile and wave. That makes you mysterious, drives her crazy, and makes her want to be No. 1 in your life. The neat thing about this is that you never lie to her, but you don't have to. All you have to do is keep your information short and vague.

There is more to say, but for now I think you have enough to give you something to think on. Just remember....no contact and don't act mad when you see her. She'll think you are mad, but just smile and wave. Stay upbeat.

Oh......no gifts, okay? Not appropriate.

Talk to you later. Please don't make me sorry I typed my fingers to the bone.

[Ready2Change]

The most important thing I have learned throughout this ordeal is to KNOW yourself. Constant self-analysis and introspection is of paramount importance. Identify the mistakes in your own behavior and correct them. They will help you live a more fulfilled life in the future.

[Ready2Change]

There is no "secret technique". Bits and pieces are spattered all over the board.

For the past three months I've been mining the tactical nuggets found in others situations. It took me a while to recover after the bomb while making the same mistakes every one does.

When I did I saw the situation for what it was ... a war of the minds. I set out the following tasks. Some running concurrent

• Lawyer up, prepare for a nasty divorce and protect my ass-ets.
• Face the worst that could happen (My marriage is dead and I've lost twelve years of my life.)2) Lie low and wait, monitor the "enemy" and gather information
• Build my resources and research alternatives solutions
• Take the laundry list and work on it to improve myself.
• Observe the "enemy" and identify weak spots.
• Discover if there is infidelity. If there is GAME OVER.
• Identify spies and people of influence in W's camp.
• Keep my cards hidden at all times. The left hand must not know what the right hand is doing.
• Plan my attack and execute

With that in mind, I've hinted subtly here and there... Mrs Gno is going to face the sum of all fears if she continues down this path and does not withdraw her forces.

• Loss of her lifestyle as she knows it
• Sense of security
• Financial support
• Loss of her H and friend (already almost gone)
• Loss of stability
• Test of her "moral support" structure (which will fail)

While battles are lost or won in the field, but wars are settle with diplomacy. The grim picture I'm busy painting is my last resort for her to get her head out of the ground. Reality sucks.

[Ready2Change]

It is one thing to outright lie and another to plant seeds of doubt. For everything you do there will be a day of reckoning where you have to explain yourself and convince the other party that they still deserve your trust and respect.

EVERYTHING I am doing in my own sitch is being documented and when the time comes I'll be able to support my actions for the innocent interactions that they are going to be. Its a major exercise in gas-lighting with good intentions.

[Ready2Change]

DBing is about changing the dynamic of your relationship by changing yourself so you are heading in the right direction.

[Ready2Change]

Look Inside one WAW~~~~~ Then and Now

[Ready2Change]

Here is an effective way to get reluctant spouse to counseling:

Spouse,

I understand your desire to keep this process moving forward as quickly as possible. I also understand XYZ and ABC. I have identified a counselor I feel would help give us closure to this difficult time in our lives. I need to do this to move forward. Regardless of the future, I am real certain that I never want to be in this situation again. I need to learn from this experience. The sessions will include co-parenting dialog to assure the least negative effects on our kids. I just need to supply them several different dates that work for us so they can fit us in their schedule.

Thank you for understanding
Me

[12bar]

Geo. Detachment does not mean avoidance. Detachment means you are separate from the outcome. It means you are not controlled by every action your W takes. It means you are fully capable of living your own life regardless of what your W decides to do with hers.

[Ready2Change]

And every chance you get, you listen to her. You let her vent and you validate her reality even if it differs from yours.

[Ready2Change]

The idea is to stop pursuing her altogether, you actually have to move in the opposite direction, she's used to you pursuing, she's used to you wanting to fix this marriage, she's used to you wanting her, now you have to do the opposite.

She wants out of the marriage - you agree.
She tells you that you guys could never work things out - you agree.

YOU don't want to be with anyone that isn't with you by choice (quoting Gucci on this one as it's so important to understand).

She doesn't want to be with you, you get it, you understand, you were foolish for trying to hold on to someone who doesn't want to be with you. You get it now, you don't want to be in this marriage anymore either, why would you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you?

[Ready2Change]

The Plan/Strategy is going to be to create CHAOS in her life. So far she has had you and your family to fall back on financially and for support. Now that her little business is falling apart this may not be as effective because she has already failed in it.

The plan is to cut EVERYTHING off. This is why you need an attorney to see what you can do without legal ramifications. You get your ducks in a row.

I'm not going to spell everything out for you in this post because you're still to eager a beaver. Your counter-attack, when it comes must hit her ALL AT ONCE. You're going to go for the jugular. This may sound vengeful, but it's not. You're going to do this for self-preservation - to protect yourself and your family. This is what a MAN does. He takes care of his own.

The side-effect of this will be to bring her to her knees. You are going to PUSH her into the OM's arms so he can deal with her crisis. You're going to shove reality down their throats in spades. Now OM has the additional tasks of dealing with supporting her financially and emotionally. When that happens usually his type flees. If this happens you leave her to stew in all the crap she has made. This will be difficult because you love her... but if you love her then you need to love her enough to let her grow up and face the consequences of what she has done. Only when she shows true remorse and starts changing for you do you blink. THAT IS THE LONG-TERM STRATEGY.

[Ready2Change]

You draw into your life what you fear. I suggest reading gypsy's words and face your fears head on:

Something I wrote to Frank.. and want to remember..

Here's something I want to share.

If I focus on my greatest fears, they happen.

My greatest fear even during the early years of the marriage was divorce. I never made a wedding album because I was afraid if I did divorce would follow. I didn't want to move out of our sweet tiny house because I knew if we didn't we'd be married for life.

We moved, I put together the album at year nineteen because I asked myself, what was I so afraid of.. even after talking to my former spouse about my wacky fears. But oops.. a divorce happened.

Once I knew my husband was really divorcing me, was gone, finito, arrivederci my greatest fear was financial insecurity. Although we had money in the bank, stocks, bonds I was scared to death and petrified. Guess what happened. The former spouse went nutso testosterone fired his reasonable lawyer, hired a big gun one who sucked down $50,000 in one month and twice as much once by the time the divorce was finalized. Oops.. I got that one too. No financial cushion, no savings, house on the market that's not selling. Ouch.

During this entire process quite a few teenagers my kids know have died in preventable car accidents. Horrible, shocking, heart breaking. The first time it happened I said, "That's a pain I never want to know." The second time it happened, I said the same thing. Now, considering my batting average with great fears, I don't go there. I'm supportive to the families, appreciate all the joys, tangles and angst of my own children and am thankful for all I have.

Why? Because if I focus on my greatest fears, they happen.

Instead of living the fear that you'll lose your children, focus on what is great. Keep that in the forefront of your mind.

The Tolstoy thing in my mind is a compliment. I'd want a frickin' Tolstoy operating on me, looking out for me. But if it bugs you, and you've heard three people make a negative reference to that aspect of your personality.. evaluate it. Maybe it's something you can tweak. There's something about 'threes' and learning.

If you look at the injustices of life, you become and/or are a victim. Even if all your actions are noble and honorable. If you cower at your divorcing spouse's tirades, you're the dog who rolls over and submits. Remember, she's just as miserable as you are. Instead, practice being a cat, turning around and farting in her general direction. (Wait.. do cat's fart?)

You are not a weak man. But you are making your way through a very painful process. And I'm sorry.. the state of New York is just sick financially forcing divorcing couples to live in the same house or risk losing it. Give yourself Frank time.

Next time your divorcing spouse brings out the claws do something different. "I understand why you feel that way." Validate.. yadda yadda. It takes two to fight. Pull the wick from the candle.

State your boundary to your divorcing spouse. If she doesn't respect it, don't reward it. Be the dad first, "Hey kids, let's go play in the other room. I'll be right there." Take the big picture approach, drop the rope. Because all the kids see is you fighting. Hug the kids instead. Tell your divorcing spouse that you understand why she feels this way. That is tough and hard and miserable for everyone. And that it will soon be over and you can each live your separate lives. Tell and accept the truth. Then let it go.

One last thing about the settlement once it's finalized. I started getting unhappy, upset about the final outcome. Then I realized I had no control and that no matter how much I bitched and moaned, nothing would change. So.. I decided that I'd gotten the absolutely best settlement ever. After all, it is what it is.. and when I remember that I did the best I could, and got the best possible, I don't go dipping in the bitter pool full of acidic feelings that eat away at my core.

PMA, baby.. Gypsy style.

[Ready2Change]

If you are trying to reconcile, you need to get a handle on your emotions. Yelling at him and beating him up will get you exactly nowhere. You are projecting a state of anger and insecurity and resentment -- and those are not things that will bring him back.

[Ready2Change]

Coach, thanks for all the words of wisdom. This one stands out:

ps You can handle it.

[chatterbug]

You made your list friend. You made your list.

The thing about all of this is that what we were doing in the past was not working, but we did it anyway. We were blind. Now I at least see lots of choices to the way to deal with things, and then I calmly decide which way I want to RESPOND.

[Ready2Change]

A friend just sent me this. Fits in well w DB, GAL, PMA.



HANDBOOK FOR 2010

Health:
1. Drink plenty of water.
2. Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a beggar.
3. Eat more foods that grow on trees and plants and eat less food that is manufactured in plants...
4. Live with the 3 E's -- Energy, Enthusiasm and Empathy.
5. Make time to pray.
6. Play more games.
7. Read more books than you did in 2009.
8. Sit in silence for at least 10 minutes each day.
9. Sleep for 7 hours.
10. Take a 10-30 minutes walk daily. And while you walk, smile.

Personality:
11. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about.
12 Don't have negative thoughts or things you cannot control. Instead invest your energy in the positive present moment.
13. Don't over do. Keep your limits.
14. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.
15. Don't waste your precious energy on gossip.
16. Dream more while you are awake.
17. Envy is a waste of time. You already have all you need.
18. Forget issues of the past. Don't remind your partner with His/her mistakes of the past. That will ruin your present happiness.
19. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone. Don't hate others.
20. Make peace with your past so it won't spoil the present.
21. No one is in charge of your happiness except you.
22. Realize that life is a school and you are here to learn. Problems are simply part of the curriculum that appear and fade away like algebra class but the lessons you learn will last a lifetime.
23. Smile and laugh more.
24. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree....

Society:
25. Call your family often.
26. Each day give something good to others.
27. Forgive everyone for everything.
28. Spend time w/ people over the age of 70 & under the age of 6.
29. Try to make at least three people smile each day.
30. What other people think of you is none of your business.
31. Your job won't take care of you when you are sick. Your friends will. Stay in touch.

Life:
32. Do the right thing!
33. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.
34. GOD heals everything.
35. However good or bad a situation is, it will change..
36. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up..
37. The best is yet to come.
38. When you awake alive in the morning, thank GOD for it.
39. Your Inner most is always happy. So, be happy.

[Ready2Change]

DETACH: How would you like it if she kept bringing up "divorce him now" sites and books on how to divorce... how to live a life alone without your husband. It would hurt. Let her deal with her emotions and thoughts. The more you cling. The more your hurting yourself. Back-off

You may not regain her love but at least you will regain her respect. Which is the foundation for any future interaction with her.

[Ready2Change]

Two years ago he dropped the bomb and left without looking back.
One year ago the divorce was official.
Today we were in court wrapping up the final piece of marital division.

In this time I've gone from devastated, desolate, struggling, limping, walking, skipping, dancing. The worst is long gone, the best becomes better.

[Ready2Change]

A lot of folks try to work their way backwards through this chain but it doesn't work that way. A woman will not be attracted to a man she doesn't respect and she will never respect a man who has no self-respect. Attraction starts with self-respect, confidence, integrity, etc., therefore, you have to go back to the beginning and focus on yourself and not your W.

It still applies. In fact, it will ALWAYS apply, as it is a Law of the Universe.

[Ready2Change]

You have to be willing to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. Without a crisis/fear of loss, what would make them want you. Here's another newsflash, she has you, you don't have her. You want her, she doesn't want you. She can have you at any time and she knows it. You can't have her at anytime and you know this. Understand this, accept this, and learn to operate from this point of view. Your current way of thinking and approaching this is not doing you any favors: you're taking steps backwards, not forwards.

Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you by choice?

That is what she is saying to you:
"I have the choice to be with you, I know this, I just don't know that I want to be with you."

Read this, understand that this is where your W is right now.

I'll repeat it again,
she has you, she knows this, she can have you at any time that she wants you and it's not terribly exciting for her, especially considering the fact that she's pursuing other men. Look at the dynamic that's in place regarding this, she wants what she can't have, she doesn't want what she does have. You are conquered, easily attainable and human nature dictates that we usually don't appreciate what we have, we usually take it for granted and attribute little value to it. Human nature also dictates that we want what we don't have and we also don't want to be controlled. You are trying to convince her that your marriage is worth saving, even if you say you aren't directly communicating this, you are showing this in your body language, the topics you might discuss, the movies that you watch, etc.

You want to change this, you want to turn this around?

Detach.
Let go.
Drop the rope.
Move on with your life.
Get a life.
Make yourself scarce.
Go out regularly, come home late.
Limit your conversations with her.

Seriously the next conversation you have with her, if I were you I would say something like:
"... I get it, you don't want me anymore, you don't want to be in this relationship anymore, I understand now, I didn't get it before but I get it now and you know what, you're right, I don't want to be here with you either, why would I want to be with someone who doesn't choose to be with me? That's just dumb. You should be with "OM", in fact I think it's a great idea because seriously, I've been lying to myself, this relationship wasn't that great and I wasn't honest with myself, you aren't floating my boat either and maybe it's time I start to find out what it's like to be with other women who want to be with me, in fact I think this is a GREAT IDEA!"

[tangotake2]

[quote]

After having been on this DB path for so doggone long now, I see things differently now. Here's what I would like to add:

1. Work on bringing neutrality to each and every conversation.

2. Choose times and places where you have the best chance of communicating well. For me? I figured out a long time ago that Mr. Wonderful is very receptive to chats (even R chats) when he is in his car on his mobile phone. Now he initiates tough chats with me, and often he is able to do this from his office but the best conversations take place in his car.

3. Leave your emotions at the front door... or on your desk... or somewhere else.

4. Make concrete goals for the communication before you begin.

5. Quit playing the conversation out in your head before you even begin! That will sabotage your efforts to find solutions instead of more problems.

6. See the statements that hurt you as an opportunity to change behaviors, thoughts and actions.

7. Commit to listening and not defending your position.

8. Seek understanding before you ask to be understood. And mean it.

9. Dump the bag of expectations you carry. There is a big chance that you will be disappointed.

10. Try to adopt an attitude of "this is for the best". See your difficulties as a means of getting your prayers answered. You only find value in a rubber band when you apply tension to it.

Betsey

[Ready2Change]

Time to Plan A.

I am going to post something from a very smart person from another forum. The poster's name is pepperband.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

[Coach]

This guy did all the wrong things at first then really dropped the rope and detached. She treated him like dirt while he was pursuing and being a wuss. Once he let her go then she wanted him.

Scarlett: Rhett, Rhett... Rhett, if you go, where shall I go? What shall I do?
Rhett Butler: Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

[chatterbug]

She's not going to send *this* message:

Hi Honey,
You've really seemed independent and together lately. That really has me worried and on edge. Would you have sex with me so that I can reassure myself about my waning hold over you and my overall attractiveness? Would seven be good?

[Ready2Change]

Completely acted like the WAS today. I told her how exciting it is to be able to be free and that I was curious about how different girls would be in bed. Walked around with my shirt off with my new fit body looking great. She questioned how I felt about our relationship. I told her divorce is for the best for both of us. We are going to find happiness in other places than here, and that I didn't want the life that I was living with her. I told her that I had been holding on to reconcilliation because I thought it was best for the kids.
I said that doing that was for the wrong reasons as I should do whats best for me. Which is the D of course.

I continued on through the day with an "as if" attitude.
We talked about her taking off work tomorrow so we could figure out finances, seperate checking ect.. We are also going to work out a way to rent out the place she is living in so she could find another place a farther away. She said it would be too weird with all my new girlfriends coming over.

By the end of the night she had her tongue down my throat ready to go for it. (she hasn't given me one bit real affection in almost 4 months!!) I finally told her she better get home and mabey she needs to take one of her vibes with her.


She also mentioned how she wished we could have caught this sooner because she thinks we could have worked it out, that I am one of the few people that actually understand her..

ADVICE TO ALL... TURN INTO THE WALK AWAY SPOUSE. PEOPLE WANT WHAT THEY CAN'T HAVE AND THEY WANT IT EVEN MORE IF IT IS JUST OUT OF THEIR REACH....

I will now continue to play this game to the fullest to see if I can reach my goal. Wish me luck.

[Kalni]

"Marriage is where you find out who you really, which very often is what makes affairs so attractive"...

"A man may be a fool and not know it, BUT NOT if he is married"...

Marriage is a powerful vehicle to intimacy and that's why people cant handle it and look for "Meaningful secondary relationships"

[TrentC]

I remember my H wanting to hear me tell him that I would put forth effort in getting our M back on track. I felt so frazzled and so discourage.....and very unmotivated to work at a R with him. I hope you can try to realize that every day she is still there....she feels as though she is putting forth all the effort she can muster. I know that may not be enough, but it took me a good while before I could reach that place.

Don't know that I've said this to you or not, but I've told several that I had to get to the place of being willing "to be willing".....and that was a hard step for me. In fact, I think it had to be broken down into tiny baby-steps.

[TrentC]

What to do on [Valentine's Day] depends on what stage you are in. If you are in full blown WAS mode with little to no contact then any gift is pursuing. I like the ideas of doing something with your kids, helping someone else or GAL for you.

The first stage of reconciliation is getting rid of negative feelings. So unless you are having consistent positive interactions then stick with the advice above.

Second stage is becoming friends again. Here I would do something that shows you understand who your spouse is - 5LLs, music they would enjoy, a book, fix something around the house, etc. A gift that shows you have more than a business connection with them. A gift that shows a emotional connection but not romantic. Show them you understand them and that they matter to you.

Third stage is re-igniting the romance. If you are in Newcomers then you aren't here.

For the curious the fourth stage is re-commiting. The is when you both have the marriage you honestly wanted.

[Ready2Change]

Something I wrote about my sitch:
(i have always written poetry, it is very therapeutic for me and helps me process my thoughts and emotions)

The Climb

We walked so many miles
Smiling, side by side
Sometimes the way was soft and smooth
Sometimes it was steep and wild

At times one ran up ahead
Looking down the road
Always to meet up again
Sharing warmth when we were cold

The path then started climbing up
Yet we continued the climb, we two
But the way was hard and we were tired
It was all that we could do

One day I stretched out my hand
To help you in the climb
To find that you were further off
Your hand I could not find

I saw you and I called out
“I’ll throw this rope to you…”
You shook your head and calmly said,
“I’ve got something else to do…”

Uncertainly, I said, “ok”
And waited in that spot
Hoping you would make your way
To the place we had been brought

You didn’t come, so I made my way
I said, “I’ll meet you where you are.”
Try as I might, I would approach
But you would still be far

Then to my complete dismay
I saw you were not alone
You were on a climb with someone else
It was I who was on my own

I saw the danger on your path
In love I tried to warn
I saw you just continue on
I saw you were tired and torn

I knew then I had a choice
I could continue on my climb
Or call you gently back to me
A safe path once more to find

And so, I called out to you
“If you join me once again,
I have the ropes and tools we need
And I will be your friend.”

I waited, then, for you to choose
But loving myself enough
To know I could not wait too long
Or my own path would be too rough

Just as I was about to go
And take the path for me
Your hand reached out and grasped at mine
“I think that now I see”

Together, again, we make our way
The path still wild and steep
Sharing the ropes and lending a hand
The promises to keep

This path is still not easy
We have a long way to go
But together it doesn’t seem so hard
And there are new things that we know

Maybe the path will even out
There is so much we can’t see
We can just take it step by step
And what will be, will be

[Ready2Change]

I'm not pretending that I'm great at this, but sometimes it helps to say to myself "what is happening right now?". I usually find that the intolerable part of my experience isn't what's happening right now, it's my thoughts about the past/future. Then sometimes I can choose to challenge those thoughts.

[Ready2Change]

My H separated ten months ago. His anger is just starting to die down. I say this to let you know you may not get any reaction from him at all for quite a while. Looking back on my sitch, I wish i had focussed less on what H did and said and more on me - it's terribly hard. BUt in essence, if they are in that hostile place, the boundary is best set, IMO, by walking away. Not saying things that they will argue or ignore. Just get the H*** away from his nastiness. Protect yourself. If and when he calms down, he will on his own, not because you told him to. And when and if he does, he'll be able to start taking the earplugs out slowly.

Going dark is for YOU, and not to get a reaction out of HIM. It's like building a little safety cuccoon around yourself. It's like hiding in a trench while the battle ensues overhead. Just wait it out, it sucks, but his ammo will be weakened when he can't hit the target - you. Keep walking away and calming yourself. DOn't y to get him to hear you. There will be time for that later. (Look at me - ten months later!)

[newmama]

from blownaway65:

The standard formula for success seems to be:

Work on yourself for yourself - which you are doing great at
Detach - once again really good
WAS notices the grass is not greener and starts to regret what they have left behind
WAS starts to pursue YOU
You decide if you want or can have WAS back (this will be really hard for me if we get to that point)

There really is no timetable though, that's the hard bit.

[Ready2Change]

Cherish the time with your son NOW!! Do all those things that you always talk about and never seem to find the time to do. Take him out back and throw ball or take him out for an ice cream, anything you can think of to spend as much quality time with him as you can.
Do not make the same mistake I did and wait till he turns 18. You can never get those years back. And it will haunt you worse then anything your wife can ever do.

[Dudess]

"Why doesn't he just let me go, "

its not his job to. ask the question this way.

"why can't i just let him go. "

[The Wifey]

What to do on [Valentine's Day] depends on what stage you are in. If you are in full blown WAS mode with little to no contact then any gift is pursuing. I like the ideas of doing something with your kids, helping someone else or GAL for you.

If you are just friends stick to making cookies and forget the striptease.

Sorry, I just had to throw that out there. (Long story.)

[Coach]

This is from Bridgestone (a LBS with the feelings of a WAW).
The men can learn a lot by really listening to what she is saying. The dynamics of what your wife needs from you is right here. The tests are for her feelings of safety and security. Make sure you are addressing the right issues. When you can learn to stand tall during the "tests" is when the anger starts to go away. Be prepared. Even better lead thru this time. Learn to communicate during the test, change your response to a productive one and understand her anger for what it is.

I will add something here
I fully admit, when I started seeing some of my StBXH changes over a year ago when he got some serious counseling..

I had very very mixed feelings.. relief, fustration, fear, but a LOT of anger.

Logically I wanted him to make those changes and for himself, not just out of compliance and I tried really hard to be supportive of his efforts, encouraging of his changes, empathetic to the emotional carnage IC does in it's first few sessions.

But emotionally, watching him making those changes after YEARS of me asking in direct & not so direct ways to stop the destructive actions and pleading for changes... the resentment I felt was overwhelming at times & I know at times, it came out as anger...

In statements like "oh wait.. I know what's that's like", lots of sarcasm

in tests of his changes.. by baiting him & pushing his buttons

in stonewalling his requests for communication because of my fear of his not being able to handle hearing what I had to say

I'm not excusing my behaviour, it was not pretty at times.. I tried my best to work through my anger in other ways, but it would come through in a ways I stated above. Even when he didn't deserve it and really was 'different' I know I was testing.

Just something to think about.

[chatterbug]

WIN
–verb (used without object)
-to succeed by striving or effort: He applied for a scholarship and won.

–verb (used with object)
-to succeed in reaching (a place, condition, etc.), esp. by great effort: They won the shore through a violent storm.
-to get by effort, as through labor, competition, or conquest: He won his post after years of striving.
-to gain (a prize, fame, etc.).
-to be successful in (a game, battle, etc.).
-to make (one's way), as by effort or ability.
-to attain or reach (a point, goal, etc.).
-to gain (favor, love, consent, etc.), as by qualities or influence.
-to gain the favor, regard, or adherence of.
-to gain the consent or support of; persuade (often fol. by over): The speech won them over to our side.


It doesn't ALWAYS denote an adversarial process!

You WIN every time you do the best thing for you - strive to be the bigger person - influence your own life... You get my idea

T

[Desperateinperth]

Sorry i am new and not sure how to post a help topic?

[Ready2Change]

I've now been hanging about this SSM forum for about 9 months. While I am neither a -really- old timer nor an overly prolific poster, I am starting to see a pattern emerge in all of the various situations presented here, which I thought I would share with you. Feel free to join in this discussion, correct my misconceptions, or add your own observations.

This is written from the standpoint of the High Desire (HD) partner, caught in a sex-starved marriage to a Low Desire (LD) partner, and who comes here looking for a way to repair the relationship and restore the lost intimacy. From what I have observed (both here and in my own situation), this journey encompasses four phases:

Phase 1: Heal Yourself

Many folks come here angry, hurt, frustrated, and bitter, and are desperately seeking a way to improve their spouse. "If only my spouse would turn on to me sexually, I would be happy again," is the common refrain. So the first truth that must be digested is: the only person you can change in your marriage is YOURSELF. You cannot fix your spouse, and cannot wait for them to make you happy. Initially, you need to focus your energies on improving yourself, for yourself.

This means taking care of yourself physically: eating right, dieting if need be, exercising regularly. This means taking care of yourself mentally: putting new energy into your chosen career, picking up old, neglected hobbies again or finding new ones, getting out of the house more, staying active, revitalizing old friendships or making new ones. This also means caring about your appearance and hygiene: adopting more effective or thorough grooming habits, adopting a new hair style, improving your wardrobe, taking time to pamper yourself with trips to the spa or salon. All the while, your background focus should be on appreciating YOURSELF, boosting your own self-confidence and self-image, and placing your own happiness in your own hands.

A side benefit is that all the while, you are also making yourself more attractive to your spouse. They will stop seeing you as that "angry jerk" or "nagging bitch," and start seeing you again as a happy, self-assured person -- an improved version of the person they were originally attracted to. Your spouse will also feel as if a great weight has been lifted from their own shoulders, as you are no longer depending upon them for your happiness. This sets the stage for Phase 2.

Phase 2: Learn to Meet Your Spouses Needs

This phase might be divided into two parts: (a) education and (b) real giving (to use SG's terminology). Sex-starved marriages ALWAYS involve a failure of TWO (2) people to understand and meet the needs of their spouse. It's rarely one-sided, and while the HD spouse who comes here can point to the failure of the LD spouse to meet their need for physical intimacy, it should be taken as a given that this same HD spouse has, in turn, been failing to meet the needs of their LD spouse.

Very often this failure, on both sides, is wrapped up in the frequently profound differences between men and women. People are often so caught up in their own point-of-view that they completely miss the fact that men and women think, talk, act, and response emotionally very differently from each other, and have very different needs with regard to feeling loved and feeling sexual. Therefore, educating oneself about the opposite sex in general, and about your own spouse in particular, is vital toward solving your sex-starved marriage.

Once you start learning what your spouse's true needs are with regard to friendship, love, and intimacy, the next step is to begin meeting those needs: WITHOUT expecting anything in return. You are showing them that you have a (most likely new-found) knowledge of them and what they need to feel loved and supported, and that YOU are willing to meet those needs --> perhaps for the first time in years.

You are proving to your spouse that you have turned over a new leaf and are willing to work hard to improve the relationship. And it has to be seen as an earnest, long-term effort -- not some short term 'fad' in order to get sex -- but a real effort from the heart.

Phase 3: Get Your Spouse on Board

This is, perhaps, the most critical phase of the four listed, and how you go about it is situation dependent. The most crucial aspect of this phase, in my view, is to have completed Phases 1 and 2 FIRST. If you jump the gun, if you still appear to be angry and demanding, if you still appear to be dependent and needy, if you still appear to not understand your partner's needs, or if you still appear to be selfish and only interested in your own needs: you will most likely fail here. Lay the groundwork carefully and properly.

One effective vehicle for approaching this step is to have your spouse read Chapter 1 of The Sex-Starved Marriage. If the stage has been properly set, then your spouse may be receptive and really GET the message and understand what you have been going through. Other spouses may respond well to a request to start counseling or sex therapy together. Still other spouses may requires some form of "kick in the pants," ultimatum, or what have you, to get them moving, but this ought to be a last resort technique, after the above two have not worked.

Every marriage, and every situation is different, so you'll have to decide how best to proceed. Just make sure that you have done your part to 'get on board,' before asking your spouse to do so.

Phase 4: Working Together

At this point, your spouse will need to go through Phases 1 and 2 on their own, following your lead. They have, no doubt, come to the table just as 'damaged' as you once were, and need to spend some time focusing on themselves and their own self-confidence and self-image. After that, they will have their own education to go through in understanding the opposite sex in general, and you and your needs in particular. All of this takes time, love, and patience on your part.

Along the way, you can follow the guidelines laid out in The Sex-Starved Marriage, pick up some other useful self-help relationship books, attend marriage counseling or sex therapy -- whatever it takes to keep the ball rolling forward. Educating yourself and your spouse in sexual techniques and variety is often a part of this stage too -- everyone can always get better in the bedroom. Be prepared for setbacks and stumbles, sudden surges forward followed by weeks of stagnation -- it's all a slow, often unsteady process. In general, expect repairing your relationship to take about 1-2 months for every 1 year of marriage.

Finally, never forget that a successful relationship and sex life requires CONSTANT, daily maintenance. Communicate clearly with your spouse every day. Court your spouse every day. Show your spouse appreciation and thanks every day. Affirm the attractiveness of your spouse, in your eyes, every day. Maintain a high level of emotional intimacy and sexual 'tension' every day. You get the idea.

Marriage is work -- hard work -- but well worth the rewards.

[Coach]

Not a quote from DB but I think it is useful here. I heard this on NPR this morning.

Overcoming Disappointments
In his seventh decade, Kushner wrote Overcoming Life's Disappointments. He says that when people look back on life, they realize that many things they had their hearts set on doing remain incomplete.
"Does that brand your life as a failure? Or can you find the secret ... of failing and not feeling like a failure?" Kushner says. "The difference between a person who has a happy old age and the person who has an unhappy old age is not how successful they were, but it's how much the things they failed at continue to gnaw at them. And no matter what you've achieved, if you're not able to still that little voice of disappointment, you are never going to be happy."
Still, Kushner says, his relationship with God hasn't changed as he has become older.
"My sense is God and I came to an accommodation with each other a couple of decades ago, where he's gotten used to the things that I'm not capable of and I've come to terms with things he's not capable of," Kushner says. "And we care very much about each other."

It matters how you handle it.

Cheers

[Coach]

Replace the mind-reading, fear and catastrophising with goals/solutions. Go from victim to empowered. This is how to handle it.

Hi all
Context: I panicked when he said we need to have a talk. And we do need to. But because it came from him, and because I didn’t know which aspect of what we need to talk about he meant, and because it was with a stern and serious face, and because I react to anyone’s displeasure with blinding dread and worst-thoughts scenario, I was already a wreck before he walked out the door. I thought my day was wrecked, as I would now spend the whole of it ruminating and stressing about the conversation to come, the make or break of it. I was already disintegrating into a mess, thinking about what he might say, how I might react, how I might feel, which was all my DBing resolve was dissolving into a puddle of fright and head-spinning incompetence. No amount of telling myself that I would be ok no matter what happened would relieve it.

Solution: And then I did something different. I stopped playing conversations in my head, thinking about what I would say/might say/ in response to whatever he might say. I didn’t even try and distract myself, knowing that I would still be obsessing, and working myself up in the process. Instead I came to the computer, sat down and wrote out my goals. What I wanted for the future. I wrote it in detail, what I would see, what I wanted to have happen and why. In half an hour, my anxiety and being a victim to the situation totally reversed. Instead of worrying about what I might say in response to whatever he put forward, I knew what I would say, because I was now firmly grounded in my goals, what I wanted. This then gave me the confidence, courage and words, so that I knew what I would be saying. I was now no longer afraid of any conversation, or even confrontation, if it came to that.

A few people have remarked that when I talk about my relationship and what I wanted, it was about us, about him, never about me. I have been so focused on placating and caring for him, his feelings, the relationship, that I didn’t even know I was doing this to the extent that my goals and needs had taken a back seat. And this was making me weak and a victim to whatever was going on.

DB talks about it, but I urge anyone that if you haven’t sat down and written out your goals, and in positive terms (ie what you want to have happen, not what you don’t want), to do it. It can totally give you back your power and make you feel less of a victim and potentially reactive rather than proactive, to your spouse or the situation.

[Coach]

From a old-timer returning - Steady.

It intrigues me to see that detachment comes at it's own time. For some it comes sooner, others later, and for some, not at all. It seemed to just creep up on me one day. As I look back now it was a process that seemed to always be marching forward - sometimes in big leaps that were noticeable and sometimes in microscopic steps which I didn't even see at all.

I wish there was some magic words or ritual that I could give all the new people here so they can get the level of detachment that's necessary for each of their situations.

Perhaps we each need to go through the suffering that brings that detachment on its own. Maybe the point of detachment is the lesson that pulls us out of a codependent need to cling to another person. I certainly know the sitch's provide us all an opportunity to awaken to life itself. Most of us were asleep and were awoken by a bomb...but I count us as the lucky ones. Imagine those people who get bombed but still don't wake up.

At least here you have the opportunity to grow, to learn, to mature into an adult who can look a mess in the eye and put your nose to the grindstone. Moving even though at times you feel like you are frozen in amber.

Find ways to bring detachment to yourself.

[Coach]

It always amazes me that they consider their illicit affair partner to be their "soulmate," and their relationship "one for the ages," and yet they will go to ANY lengths to lie about it and keep it a secret from everyone!

If it's so special, why not SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS??

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

RW,

I'm going to tackle some of your post above.

I have been cheated on, abandoned, and betrayed by the man I love and have been faithful to for over twenty years.

Yes. And you are hurting.

And, despite the fact that I still love him deeply,

Yes you do.

he really "feels nothing" for me.

That's a lie. He feels for you and loves you. Those "feelings" are there. They are clouded and covered at the moment, but they are there.

It is most likely his depression that is causing this.

It is. But don't look at the depression... look at the reasons for the depression. This man has not only betrayed you but he has betrayed himself. He broke his vows. This has caused him to question himself and his very core. He is questioning his ability to make sound choices. He is questioning 1000 other things. He needs to rationalize what he has done. He perceives himself as a complete failure to you - his W, his family, his finances... and whatever else.

But, somehow he "felt" for her... very intensely.

That is true. He did. If he denies this to you he would be lying. He cared for her -- note the PAST tense of this. Something you're going to come to terms with is this: IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. He got suckered in by his lust and by being manipulated.

at some point I may not be able to live with that. I don't know.

Then you will make a decision when that point comes. It is understandable and yes, the truth is... you don't know. Don't waste time and energy on the unknown. Use your abilities on the known and on what you have control over.

Don't I deserve to know what it is like to have a man passionately fight for me, want me, adore me?

Yes you do. Right now your man is wounded. How can you expect a wounded man to get up and fight? You can't, not even the army expects this. You wait for him to heal so he can get up and fight again.

Am I just a stupid hopeless romantic? Am I unrealistic?

I don't think so. You sound like a woman who knows what she wants.

As a matter of fact, I am now starting to look forward to a break from him and the intensity of all this. GAL time!

Yes, yes and yes. Take a break. Concentrate on you for a while.

I'll get back to you on that other stuff but wanted to tackle this first.

[Ready2Change]

...Well, we could all use some good news right? So I have some....Largely due to the perspective shift Gno has been helping me work on for some time now, I approached H very differently last night. I gave him a hug and told him "I am sorry I didn't see or hear how much you were struggling with things before the A. I am sorry for my part in why you were feeling lonely." H hugged me back very tightly and told me he appreciated that so much....I wanted to share this because I think my validating of where he was at, and approaching him with compassion and love, opened up a level of emotional intimacy for him that was very important. I needed that perspective shift to happen first... thanks Gno!

[Ready2Change]

Good things come to those who have the confidence to be involved instead of waiting to be invited.

[Ready2Change]

Left Behind. Truth.

I stand before you. One betrayed person speaking to another. Though you cannot hear my voice speaking the words to you. I whisper them in your ears as you read the words I have written upon this electronic canvas. As you know I was betrayed in July emotionally. Physically in August. I speak this for it is the truth. I am not ashamed of betrayal. I am no less a person than those who have not experienced the gut wrenching pain of betrayal. Those whose hearts are not covered with deep wounds. Whose depths remain uncharted. Yet I heal and the scars have formed. They crisscross across my heart. But it still beats with passion, with love, with care , with hope, with strength, with courage, with determination, with purpose, with endurance, and with innocence. My heart beats strong. My soul , mind , heart and spirit were not destroyed. They were not taken from me by such a selfish and determined act of cruelty. For my vows and morals were the pillars that stood against the storm. I retreated and weathered the storm. These is the truth that I speak to myself......

I am betrayed
I am healing
I am strong
I am abound with inner strength
I believe in myself
I am a kind and caring person
I am working every day at improving myself
I am hopeful about my future
I am in control of the present
I am at peace with that I cannot control
I am at peace with the past
I am proud of my actions
I am not afraid of my thoughts
I am not afraid of my actions
I am not afraid of speaking my thoughts
I am not afraid of acting
I speak the truth
I speak openly when needed
I listen when needed
I listen because what is said to me is important
I listen because I enjoy what you say to me
I listen because I wish to learn
I will have a full and happy life
I have grace
I have strength of character
I smile with my eyes
I have self worth
I believe in myself
I have endurance
I have persistence
I have a purpose
I have strength
I have determination
I have courage
I have clarity
For I am truthful to myself
I know now that I will fall in love again
because I know I can love again
I know now that I will love again
because I can trust again
I know now that I can trust again
because I was granted the gift of unconditional love.

My life is now.

These thoughts were about I. But I could take your name and place it there. And the truth would be spoken. Interchangeable. Equal. Respect. Truth.

[Ready2Change]

I was an emotional wreck, devastated by what was going on... but I did not let that show to H. I counted on the support here to help me through that.

The point is to do things differently than what you were doing... it obviously wasn't working.

These things are counter-intuitive, but your best chance of turning things around. If you are like most of us here, you will find a strength within yourself you didn't even know you had.

[Dudess]

I decided to live life like I believed that Jesus had my back and like I was truly blessed. I turned up my happy. I got giddy and delerious with my life. And I got sexy back. And somebody seems to have noticed

[Ready2Change]

It seems to really boil down to:

If someone wants to leave, let them leave. Don't hold on. Move forward. Improve yourself. Don't try to control anything. Say Yes to whatever happens. Keep the focus on yourself. Want what you want, but don't be attached to a particular outcome. Live life.

[Ready2Change]

To make it easier to find them later...

* Improving Assertive Behavior
* Building Trust
* Handling Insecurity
* Stress Reduction
* Self-Affirmations
* Improving Listening Skills
* Self-Esteem
* Handling Forgiving and Forgetting
* Letting Go Uncontrollables and Unchangables
* Overcoming Perfectionism
* Developing Detachment
* Eliminating Manipulation
* Developing Patience
* Eliminating Passive Aggressiveness
* Handling Intimacy
* Stages of the Loss Process
* Handling Fear of Rejection

I couldn't find these on the site:

* What is Low Self Esteem?
* Overview of Critical Thinking
* Handling Fear of Guilt

And a few I wanted to add to the list...

* Handling Resentment
* Handling Forgiving and Forgetting
* Goal-Setting in Relationships
* Overcoming the Role of Victim or Martyr

[brenalim]

Pain beats regret every day of the week and twice on Sundays

[steady]

Pain is unavoidable, but suffering is optional.

[Ready2Change]

Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.

[Steve McQueen]

for the archives

There's an old Polish proverb which says, "Sometimes a man must first walk with the gophers, before he can fly with the flying squirrels."

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

there are so many things I could say but in the end,
crisis & fear of loss motivates people to action,
it's a little sad that this is usually the only thing that motivates people to move to action but when you accept reality for what it is, you have to accept human nature for what it is and when you can just accept it instead of trying to rationalize it with your morals and ethics, you will find just as I have found in my own situation that fighting reality moves you backwards, not forwards so just accept reality and use it, reality works because it's reality and everything else isn't

[Ready2Change]

See this struggle too much here not to address it.

Too many people here are fighting a emotional battle with their WAS. You have to realise that your logic will not change their feelings whether there is a A or not. Your words won't do it, your telling your WAS how sorry you are, how you will change, rubbing her feet, and pleading. These things reinforce how they already feel about you. To change the way they feel about you, you must change the way they think about you.

How do you do that? Most of us vets give the same advice in different words. The easiest and very productive way of changing the way your WAS thinks about you is to - agree with them (validate), drop the rope (let them go), and GAL (take care of yourself, become interesting). When somone comes in my office and is upset about their account the easiest way for me to calm them down is to agree with them. Now they can't be mad at me because we are on the same side of the table. If I try to tell them why they shouldn't be upset (logic) how are they going to respond?

Visualise the drop the rope analogy. Your WAS is running away and your R is the rope holding them back so the more you pull (pursue) the more they resist. Because the rope is causing emotional pain and you are the source of it. Who is going to be the one to change? (Last time I googled the "runback spouse" I got no hits.) So drop the rope - let them go, try something different, 180, walkaway - whatever you want to call it. Your own emotions (fear) keep you from letting go of the rope. (What if they don't come back?) It's not all in your control people. If you want to be a chick magnet make sure you a facing the right way otherwise you become a chick repellant.

Study up on the dynamics of relationships, marriage, attraction, and affairs. The DBing techniques are not unique to busting a divorce. The DB advice is about healthy relationships and loving yourself.

Understand what and why your WAS feels the way they do and think about how you can change their thinking about you. TEA - thought proceeds emotion and emotion proceeds action. Change your thoughts, open your mind, challenge your beliefs, try something different, look at how you see yourself, and detach. Get ahead of your WAS on the detachment curve and now you can lead.

This board has lots of different personalities and styles. None of us is going to give out advise that is designed to see you fail. We wouldn't be here if we didn't care or understand the struggle you are encountering. The advise is roughly the same regardless of the source. Remember your situation is unique just like everyone else.

Handle it by getting your thoughts squared away. What are my goals? How will I achieve those goals? Then monitor the results. Focus on solutions. I promise that if you get your thoughts in the right place you will be a success.

Cheers

[FindingMyVoice]

She said she doesn't want to be dependent on you.

You said that "SUGGESTS" to you that....

In other words, you haven't asked her why she feels that way. You seemed concerned about responding to her positively. All you really have to do to respond to her positively in conversation right now is say things like "Oh, I see", and "Yes, I understand". Then ask her MORE questions.

WHY does she feel like she has no hope? WHY does she worry about losing family, friends etc? Then listen. At some point, you will ask a question that will get her talking for a long time and she will expound upon WHY she feels the way she does.

Let her talk about stuff for a while, then leave her alone. Talking about it, then space to feel things out is how women process. Men process over a beer. Don't make her process stuff like a man, allow her to do it like a woman. You can help her in that process.

[Ready2Change]

Not sure where this gets posted but had to say a huge thank you to DVB and my coach for helping me hang in there and turning my marriage around. My husband left 2 years ago in the midst of a midlife crisis, saying he would never be back and with another woman in the picture. I have been fighting for my marriage ever since and have always believed we could make it work and always believed he was worth fighting for. Many, many times I have slipped backwards and felt like giving up, but my coach, my friends and my faith kept me going. Two weeks ago he finally said he wanted to try and make our marriage work again, and is moving back. I know we have a long way to go, but we are both positive and trying, and I really feel that we might just make it this time. I am so very happy.
To all those people out there who are still fighting, have faith and keep following the advice that Michele and her team have given us. It really does work and it's all worth it when it does. Good luck and best wishes x

[any chance?]

This post is probably on here a dozen times, but it just meant something to me tonight, and I thank Robx for the insight. Came here through the efforts of Piano. Thank you very much.Sorry this one is long, but I find it very useful, especially when I am consumed by pain or obsessing about strategies and how to "fix" my relationship. It's one from Robx.
Everyday users on this forum will post an unknown number of replies & questions dealing with their relationships & marriages and every post boils down to some variation of...

"What should I do? I've read the other threads on this forum but my situation is unique..."

Bottom line, nothing in this world is new anymore. As much as you think your situation is unique, it really is a variation of quite a few common themes that you see posted & replied to regularly in these forums.

You may have heard the term, "WAS script".
Well "script" implies that the WAS (man or woman) will say & do things that are common for a person that wants to leave a relationship/marriage. My personal favorite is "I love you but I'm not in love with you anymore". Impressive that with so many unique marital situations that this particular statement re-occurs on a regular basis.

What else is not unique in many of your situations: TIME.
In most if not all of your respective situations, it has taken months and more probably years for your relationships to get to to their current status. It took alot of time to get to where you are, it took alot of time for the damage to accumulate to a point where your spouse made a decision to leave the relationship and you all have to realize that it's going to take a long time to get your relationship back if that's even a possibility.

Guarantees... there are none. Know this. Accept this.
You can do everything right in your current journey of busting your divorce and still not get your spouse back. There are no guarantees in life. No one knows what tomorrow will bring and you can't predict or control the future. But.... (and you know I like big buts) you all have a chance. As long as your heart beats, as long as you have a spring in your step, a smile on your face and the willingness to improve yourself and be the kind of spouse you would want to have (change begins & ends with the person you stare at in the mirror everyday) then you have a chance, a very good chance - it's not a guarantee but it's better than nothing at all.

You all come here looking for a solution. Years of marital problems, personal neglect, spousal neglect along with countless other issues and you all come here looking for a solution because your spouse has told you in one way or another "I've had enough and I don't want this marriage anymore."

This happened to all of you in one way or another and I don't care how "unique" your situation is, your spouse finally communicated to you in person that they wanted to leave you or they had an affair with another person which pretty much indicates the same thing.

So what prompted you to action? Crisis, fear of loss. It was only when you were faced with losing something that you finally decided to act.

Regardless of how "blind" you might have been during the marriage/relationship, you all had some clues & indicators that your spouse wasn't happy. You just thought you would plug along as you have been doing, thinking that your spouses would get out of their funk eventually and just be loving & caring. Maybe some of you felt that the other spouse had to change because they had "changed" into someone you didn't recognize anymore and you weren't going to fix anything until they fixed it, it was their responsibility, their fault, since they are married, they had an obligation to do something as well. Yes this is all very "unique".

Here is also something "unique".... you all want an answer NOW.
How do I do this? How do I respond when they do this? What is my next move? Should I do this and employ this tactic? What do I say when they do this? My personal favorite: How do I GAL when they've moved away and won't even notice my changes?

Yes you're all very "unique".

You all want to fix your relationships now, something that is also "unique". I want results now, I NEED RESULTS NOW! Read those words, think about the times that you yourself may have even said those things or something similar or even just thought about it. Reflect on how needy you've become, how insecure you've become, how unattractive that behavior really is: ME, ME, ME, ME, ME!

I've said it before, consumerism isn't just alive & well at the shopping malls. It's alive & well in your relationships. I want something new, improved, better, faster, stronger, and I want it NOW! It took years to create the problems that you are a part of but you all want a fix now. The microwave isn't fast enough, the car isn't fast enough, high speed internet isn't fast enough, the computer definitely isn't fast enough and there aren't enough hours in the day. Do any of you recognize the recurring theme here? You all want what you want and you all want it NOW!

Well your marriage isn't a microwave dinner and you aren't going to be able to nuke it and make it ready in 30 seconds. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can start doing the real work which takes time, effort, consistency of action (which builds trust) and the willingness to do things that you haven't done before, something that the "old" you wouldn't have done because the "old" you was boring and not willing to adapt & change.

You want to be efficient at cooking dinner, go for it.
You want to be efficient at work, go for it.
You want to be efficient at doing the laundry and taking care of your homes, go for it.

When it comes to your relationships and repairing the damage that took years to build up and destroy your marriages, there is no 30 second nuke button to hit. The repair process takes time, it takes a long time to heal a heart, it takes a long time to rebuild trust, it takes a long time to fix a relationship because it took a long time to break it.

This is a common fact for you all of you. This process will take time, alot of time. Trying to implement a quick fix will actually slow down your progress - that is the only guarantee I can provide to all of you. Trying to force your relationship to heal at a quicker pace will cause more damage. You will inevitably reveal to your spouse how selfish you are and that the only reason you want to recover this relationship is for you and not for them and they will see through that.

The "BS-meter", all of your WAS's are equipped with this piece of equipment, if you're not sincere in your efforts they will be able to tell and it will erase any progress you've made and even set you back a few steps.

Slow is fast, Fast is slow - tattoo this to your foreheads if you can't remember it.

I can't count how many situations I've read in these various forum posts where the LBS is making real progress, their WAS is warming up to them again, calling them, interacting, communicating, smiling, spending more time, doing things together, emailing, texting, etc. And after 1 or 2 days/weeks, the LBS figures it's time to press the WAS for marriage counselling or talking about the relationship and reconciliation. It took a few years to damage your relationship but you figure after a few weeks of peaceful interactions with your WAS that it's time to force them to make a decision about reconciling with you. You are all very "unique" in this respect. You all do this or will do this in your own "unique" ways.

Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.

Rebuild yourself, change yourself for you first. Become a better person for you. Reclaim your individuality. You were an individual before you were a part of this relationship with your WAS. It was your individuality that made you attractive, learn what it is to become you again, enjoy being you, continue pressing forward, personal development is a lifelong process, don't be lazy with yourself, be the best you that you can be.

The repair process is slow, anyone preaching a quick fix does not know what they're talking about.

There are also many methods to possibly accomplish the herculean task of repairing your marriage, "busting your divorce". Many of us will have many ideas on what you can do to accomplish this task. None are guaranteed to work, remember there are no guarantees. But if you fail to act, you are acting to fail and will achieve those results. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. So one piece of advice that will be common to all of you, do things differently from what you are doing now and please stop whining and saying "I can't do this", "I can't do that", it's that same attitude that got you into this mess to begin with - you can do it, you just don't want to do it and it's that same attitude that prompted your WAS to leave you.

You all have questions, you all want advice, you all have pain, you all claim to love your spouses but your past actions with them might indicate otherwise, you all want your spouses back - and yet you all claim to have "unique" situations.

Give yourself the time to find those answers to those questions, give yourself time to improve yourself for you first and then your children, don't change for your spouse - that is definitely the wrong thing to do, remember the "BS-meter" that I mentioned previously. Give yourself time to heal from your pain, admit to yourself that if your spouse has hurt you, they may not be able to do anything to rectify that with you, you in the end have the ability to forgive them for what they may have done, that is within your control and that is your choice. Allow them the same courtesy, to heal within their own amount of time, allow them the choice of forgiving you and realize that no one owes you anything.

If you pray to GOD (and if you don't maybe you should but then again, that is YOUR choice), pray for CLARITY so that you have a clear mind that your vision is restored so that you can see clearly enough to know what you want and know what you have to do. Pray for the CONFIDENCE to take action on the choices you make and pray for WISDOM to choose wisely.

Stop praying for a quick fix to your problems, it doesn't exist.
There is no QUICK SOLUTION.

And if you want to truly be "UNIQUE", start by doing things that you normally wouldn't do, start by letting go of the need to control others and realize that you can only control your thoughts & actions. Respect your WAS's decision to leave you, you gave them reason to do so, if you want them back you will need to give them a reason to come back and that doesn't mean calling them and making them feel guilty for their actions. You want the reason they come back to you to be because they want to be with you and you can only promote that kind of feeling in others by making changes in yourself that would allow that kind of environment to exist and know that the changes you make in yourself aren't being done for your spouse, they're being done because you ultimately want to live a great life and you realize how you were living before wasn't great.

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you and especially those of you that feel like doormats in your current situations: Grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself. It’s impossible to truly love yourself & draw self esteem from within if you are letting people walk all over you. Every time you let someone treat you badly your self esteem drops just a little bit. If you can't respect yourself, how can you expect others to respect you, how can you expect others to love you?

If you want to be "unique", and this is for all of you that happen to unfortunately be in abusive relationships: Love yourself and respect yourself enough to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you - it is one of the toughest lesson's you will ever learn but also the most rewarding.

I wish all of you "unique" db'ers a good day,
hopefully some of you saw yourselves in the examples listed above and hopefully you have some additional clarity into what you are currently doing

[Steve McQueen]

Women are like crock pots, men are microwaves.

[Ready2Change]

Hello All!
I'll try to make this as brief as possible - after reading through a lot of this forum, I've discovered that my situation isn't all that different than a lot of people. Good to not feel so alone!

Married 16 yrs, 2 children - 17 and 12. Good marriage most of the time, lots of good memories, some bad ones, mostly me though...I use to be an angry person.

Past few years I began to sink into a heavy depression and started drinking heavily, emotionally neglecting/taking advantage/not respecting my wife and/or family. She built one hell of a wall around her heart, a wall against me....and because of me. Basically detached herself emotionally from me after trying for YEARS to straighten me out. In all of this, I still loved her dearly but didn't show it. I was a mess.
She gave up finally and became a WAW....from what I've read here that's the best description I could find.

Fast FWD to last year, marriage was falling apart...I was drinking like crazy, numb to everything, depressed....she ran into an old boyfriend at her class reunion, at the time I was drinking and neglecting her the heaviest. They began a one-sided EA...I say one-sided because he's gay - but my wife fell in love with him. Different state, so no PA. I didn't see any signs at all until she flat out told me, and said she felt guilty about it and didn't want to hide it...she wanted our relationship to open up. It was then that everything hit me like a train and I was knocked out of that fog I was in.
She was planning on leaving me she said, the only thing keeping us together was the kids at the time. She was going to leave me this coming summer. I went through ALL the emotions, pain, you name it within the span of a few weeks.
FFWD a bit - I realized what I was doing, I wanted to keep my lovely wife and start this marriage over....I stopped drinking and began getting myself together...did all the wrong things at first; begged her, cried, puppydog following her around the house, smothered her, etc. MAN I didn everything a man is NOT supposed to do which kept pushing her further away!
She decided that she wasn't actually in love with this friend of hers, but that he was there when I wasn't - he listened, talked, did everything I was supposed to be doing - which she REAALLY needed at the time. True. I don't know if he ever knew how my wife felt, I've asked and she's told me that it was all her and that he knew nothing. I spied a bit, and that seems to be true....wanted to learn trust, I stopped spying and refuse to do it again - at this point I have no reason to.

Anyway, FFWD to today - I'm a changed person in many different ways, I have stopped smothering her and given her space, stopped 'doting' on her, showed her real love and support, etc. etc. etc. got a life somewhat, lost 25 lbs, got all 'muscular', started my art career up again and I'm much like the man she married in all ways...except that I'm much more 'learned' about relationships....women....marriage...love...trust...anything and everything I have read over the months, and she has said to me 'I don't even know you now! lol!' - and in a good way. We don't talk about the marriage right now, at her request, she has worked on her anger and resentment towards me and it's better...but still there, I can tell sometimes....we get along better than we ever have...we laugh, my moods are almost always 100% awesome which always rubs off on here when we talk, have coffee, etc. we hug each other, nice kisses - quick on the lips or cheek, but sex and intimacy almost non-existent right now, but I don't push it because it makes her angry when I do....she has said 'let me come to you' in the past, and that's what I'm doing. I flirt a little, give her compliments and say dirty stuff to here now and then which gets a cute 'look' from her...I'm showing patience like NEVER before, many many actions and fewer words, and it seems she's SLOWLY opening up to me again and it's only been about 5-6 months since I freaked out, broke down, cried and begged....up until that time, we had frequent and great sex even when she was pissed and me and even when she thought she was in love with someone else. I'm guessing those breakdowns turned her off to me physically, sexually? but that's just from reading a little bit and a guess - I'm not an expert at this! I've caught her recently though, looking at me and my muscles when I'm walking around the house shirtless, hugging me a 'little' tighter,....we look into each other's eyes when we talk now, something we didn't do before. And finally, the other day she went out of town with her mother...and emailed me a reminder to pick up our son...and in it she said 'Have a Super Day! I love you!!!' which is something I haven't heard or she has written to me in a LONG time! My heart stopped and I was in a trance all day...I wanted more of course, but I held back and just tried to be a friend that day. She'll go from that though, to seeming a bit cold to me. Sort of one step FWD, one step back.
Any suggestions? Am I on the right track? I love this woman to death and will work and wait as long as I have to for her to decide on what she wants - one way or another. It seems like since I've started respecting her wishes, giving her space and listening to her when she comes to me to talk, leaving her alone when she wants to be left alone...things like that have started to make a difference. This based on the fact that months ago she was AFRAID of me, didn't trust me AT ALL, wanted to leave, was so angry at me I couldn't hug or talk to her AT ALL and we came inches from splitting up, and holy crap I don't blame her. I was bad.
The 'today' me is more me than has ever been me and I love me! Me is awesome.
Something else - I've halted or reduced I should say - texting and emails to maybe 1 or 2 a day, and almost always something funny or just something nice to her. I guess I have this overwhelming fear that if I'm not there AGAIN, like I wasn't last summer, then things will go backwards....so I'm a bit leary of halting all communication, acting like I've moved on, etc. like I've read here in this forum. I'll do whatever it takes though - I'm just not a good actor ha!
Wrong? Right? I appreciate all help and suggestions!
Am I on the right for love again?

[Ready2Change]

But where I fell far short was in not meeting the emotional needs she had in the way SHE needed them , as opposed to what I thought she needed.

[Ready2Change]

Don't get me wrong,
I felt like you did in the beginning,
I think we all go through that,
that is fear of loss, that is crisis, "what if...",
it's ok to feel what you're feeling - heck those feelings are your's, you own them, but you need to realize why you feel this way. You're afraid of something that hasn't happened yet, in essence, you're afraid of what tomorrow may bring and my advice would be to turn that into your 180, look forward to what tomorrow may bring, you may be surprised at the good things that may come your way still.

Every day is a chance to do better than the previous,
even if it's only in a small way, over time, even the tiniest of changes add up to something significant in size.

You focus on having a great day today and an awesome weekend

[Ready2Change]

How to Display Strength AND Loving

[Ready2Change]

Great post to read from Britt54:

Britt54

[Ready2Change]

Move forward with a meaningful life on your own.

Any man who would leave his wife alone at an appointment where she might be finding out she has cancer...well...this is no kind of man.

There are NO excuses for him. If anyone tells you there are, they are wrong.

Marriage is not to be a ball and chain. It is not to be an albatross around your neck that drags you to the bottom of the deepest ocean.

You do not have to divorce to be apart from this man and reclaim your life. Fact is, putting the focus on "divorce" or "not divorce" should not really be the point right now.

You need to LIVE.

You need to get out from under the oppression.

Your husband is a three time loser. And I agree that him signing away the rights to a child is a CLEAR sign of his character and nature.


I do believe that people can change. But this man would almost have to re-invent himself just to be classified human.


Get away. Get far away. And tell him why. We should take our steps with confidence and integrity. Don't run without a word. Tell him why. Let him know the many pains he has brought, the way he has emptied your soul and sucked the life out of you. Tell him that you cannot live like you are dead any longer.


You've been alone for 16 years. You may find that by leaving you will become LESS lonely.


Blessings,

Bill

[Ready2Change]

Welcome to this board.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This is my new and improved list of links.

I would start with the detach link.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

The link for the resources:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1


Doormat tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Why they run:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=67406&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...6668#Post526668

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Remember that in the stages of MLC it does NOT go 1,2,3,4,5,6
but can get all mixed up and repeat itself and have more than one stage at once.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

As far as what stage he is in. If the OW is still present he is in Replay.

But lets not worry about him. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
GAL.
Detach.
Use the time that your H has given you as a gift to
start to work on yourself.

[NorthStar]

Dear all

I have been returning to read your words/posts daily, and they are giving me such courage, inspiration and comfort. My H separated from me in March 2010 having signaled his intention to do so last September 2009 - the day before his 51st birthday. Unfortunately I didn't discover Michele's book (or this site) until after he had left. I am committed to trying to build a friendship with him and applying all the wisdom that others have gained - and are generously sharing - when dealing with MLC.

Yesterday was a good night as he returned to spend an evening meal with myself and two of the children (S14 S16). The alien didn't appear for a couple of hours and I think I handled it okay - remaining calm and not retaliating. Even when he went to the front door, I didn't follow, just called out a cheery goodbye from the kitchen. A first for me.

This is the first time I've written a post, but just wanted to introduce myself and say an enormous thank you to all of you who have become such an important part of my life. The gift you give by sharing your experiences is the light at the end of a very dark tunnel. Thank you.
_________________________________
Me 51
H 51
S 20
S 16
S 14
M 25 yrs
Bomb dropped Sept 2009
Separated March 2010

[Ready2Change]

And if she says go back to the past? Remember, she feels as though I have had multiple emotional affairs! I haven't, but did not use good judgment nor was as respectful of her boundaries as I darn well should have been! Sorry, not sugarcoating my role in all this mess!

Confounded to W: "I'm as frustrated about our past as you are and I know how you feel. Neither one of us can change the past, and I am focused on a better future. Please tell me how I can show you going forward that I am a faithful husband with integrity."
Greek

[Gnosis]

If it helps anyone out there, my W literally told me that it was when I really pulled away from her, and she had to face the prospect of life without me, that she really turned around.

The same story over and over again with WAW's.

[Ready2Change]

radar is up, watching closely, frankly still in shock over this whole thing, I never saw it coming ...not like this anyway.

None of us did. But it's how you DEAL with it that will define your character.

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

AP10,

Never ask a wayward spouse to make contact with their affair partner for the purpose of telling them that they can no longer have contact with their affair partner.

Nor, should you ever ACCEPT them wanting to talk to them "one last time," for "closure."

Instead, have him write a no-contact letter, the content of which is to be approved by YOU, and the letter should be mailed/delivered by you (so that nothing is added or taken away from it), followed by a thorough TRANSPARENCY PLAN (new cellphone and e-mail addresses, login/passwords provided to you, cellphone kept out in the open, etc.).

Your firm stand is good, but don't ask HIM to go deliver it to her. Have it be in the form of a letter (there are some good examples in Harley's books or on the marriage builders website).

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

If you learn NOTHING ELSE from this whole ordeal, learn this:

In every situation, rather than operate from a basis of "How will she will react if I do thus-and-such? Will she be mad? How will her reaction make ME feel?", and replace it with

"What is The Right Thing to Do in this situation? What would God Himself have me do, if He were standing right in front of me?" . . . and then let any bluster from your wife, as a result, be just that: BLUSTER.

It's very liberating when you finally learn to do that, and realize . . . I'm still standing.

[Ready2Change]

I ask her what is wrong and if she wants to talk, but she just says nothnig is wrong. I know her and I know that looks she has, and somethign is wrong.

Classic DAM. That's how us guys talk to each other.

Try this next time. Stop everything, focus on her, make eye contact, have open body language, speak calmly and listen carefully to her.

"I can feel that something is bothering you. How can I help you right now?"

Being compassionate, listening, validating, and respecting her wishes will go a long way.

H(compassionate tone): "How are you?"
W: "fine" (listen to her TONE).
H(compassionate tone): "You (look/sound) (upset/sad/tired/irritated.....)

[Ready2Change]

she is like that because she's insecure,
to make herself feel more secure, she has to make you feel bad because if she can make you feel bad, she make herself feel better, people with low self-esteem are notorious for this, they have to put on that hard bitchy exterior to make people believe they're tough but they're not,

and she uses whatever tactics she's used in the past that worked on you but they don't work anymore do they ;-)

When she acts all bitchy towards you, just smile confidently and ask her with a grin, "is there anything else I can do for you today princess? I'm a busy man and don't have a lot of time for your crap behavior, if you can't be respectful towards me, I can't waste any of more of my VALUABLE time" and smile and then walk away.

Don't tolerate her crap behavior and for pete's sake, DON'T REWARD her crap behavior with her attention, when you stop paying attention to her when she's "bitchy" and you make a habit of not tolerating this crap, you will eventually send a clear message to her, you have respect for yourself, enough respect to let go of the people in your life that don't value you or the relationship they have with you.

It's called setting boundaries, you decide how you let people treat you. If you allow them to treat you poorly, I bet you that they will, if you respect yourself and stop allowing people to act like this toward you, eventually they'll get the msg and stop - trust me, it works, it may not be an overnight transformation but it works!

[Ready2Change]

Your roadmap...

Be a HAPPY MAN... Repeat.. Be a HAPPY MAN...
Life is good.. Enjoy life. Be and act happy.


CONSISTENT, SILENT changes you have needed to make.
Don't say a word to her about those changes. Just make them.

Little things that you can do. Do them and don't mention them.

EXAMPLES...
Do you pick up after yourself? If not, then start doing it.

Hand her the remote to the TV. "Here honey, find something you want to watch.. (HAPPILY)

Walk up behind her when she is at the kitchen sink and give her a QUICK 5 or 10 second back rub and then whisper in her ear, "I just want you to know I love you"... then walk away as if you stopped by to rub her on your way to taking out the garbage or on your way to go mow the lawn.. (short, quick, then walk away)


When was the last time you took her car on your day off and filled it with gas, checked the oil, checked the air pressure, had it washed, etc?... (and said nothing when you brought it back) HAPPILY...

LITTLE THINGS....LITTLE THINGS.... THOUGHTFUL THINGS...

THOSE are the things that women notice in your situation that doesn't come across as pressure. THOUGHTFUL without being smothering.....


Give your DAUGHTER some extra money to go shopping with your wife. You DAUGHTER,not your wife. Do this when your wife isn't around. Just tell your daughter that you are proud of her and just wanted to let her know and to spend it as she wishes... (say nothing to your wife about this).....


THOSE are the types of things that wives respond to when in your type of situation. SILENT. Consistent. Do not bring up the things you do. Just do them.

That is a start. No relationship talk. Men are doers. Don't worry. She will notice.

Thanks.

One needs to be careful on this site with that type of advice.

After all.. One size does not fit all..


I shouldn't have to,but I better clarify to Slip...

Don't do all of these things in one night okay?

Keep up your own hobby's and interests. HAPPILY.

Just learn to be observant and learn to be THOUGHTFUL..

Winning her back won't be all about flowers, romantic dates, gifts and cards... It will be more about the little things that gain her respect and then the other things like flowers and stuff will work their way in. Thoughtful things that you do that you don't mention to her.

[Ready2Change]

Questions:

1. What do you mean by "reacts in a negative way"?
2. Help me understand a little more about "if she is having an affair, she will not like if I do any of those things"

The information that I was giving was advice to put some new sparks in a boring M, and "if" she is not in an A.....she will like the new you and the attention you give her. She will be happy and I'm sure you won't have trouble realizing it. However, if she is involved emotionally or physically with another man, she will see the new attention as "smothering" her. She will be turned off by flowers/gifts and she will not really want to have special dates or trips, etc. Negative response is when she is not pleased with your attempts at reviving the R.

Some women can continue to have sex with their H even when they are in an A with OM. Some women can chat with their OM, get all hot & bottered, then want to have sex. So.....they go to bed with the H.

If your W does not act very happy at your changes aNd especially any pursuing behaviors, then it is a huge red flag that an A is in progress.

[Ready2Change]

Suggested Books Thread

[Ready2Change]

There's a line between being a responsible adult and taking on a parenting role for your spouse that you keep crossing, and it just isn't healthy.

[Ready2Change]

Very wise words:

She's not attracted to you. She's bored. She wants something to look forward to. It's important to plan things and make them fun and interesting. Make yourself attractive to your wife. Lead.

This is attractive to a woman. She wants to know all about your day - especially tough things you deal with. Men want to forget about the BS while women need to know about your drama. They need to know that if things get tough then you can handle it. My wife told me she didn't think I was tough. I went to The Citadel, flew in Desert Storm, have started teams, manage my own practice and have three kids. I have dealt with adversity but since I didn't share it with her she didn't feel I was tough. I shielded her from my misery, it's not healthy in a marriage. When your wife feels she is part of why you do what you do then all your dreams will come true.

[Ready2Change]

...and just kept singing "Hokey Pokey" in my head so I did not break down....

[Coach]

These are from Coach Wooden:

Do not mistake activity for achievement.

Make each day your masterpiece.

Become the best you are capable of becoming.

You cannot live a perfect day without doing something for another without thought of something in return.

Be more concerned with your character than your reputation.

Happiness begins where selfishness ends.

[Ready2Change]

you are still trying to make it your way (fixing).

Just ask, "How can I help you?" Then she can answer with exactly what she wants. She gets what she wants and you then are on your way to getting what you want.

[Ready2Change]

My W seems a little confused by me walking away from T, and even a bit bothered by it because she said she doesn't want to work on the M and I reacted by killing T.

She doesn't want to work on the M so you canceled T and she is confused and bothered. Amazing what happens when you agree with a WAS and drop the rope. poof there goes the tension.

[Ready2Change]

Am I stupid for still thinking he will wake up and realize this is all a mistake? Is there anything I can do or should I just give up and move on? I don't want to give up.

You are not stupid, that's #1. You are hoping - and that's a good sign in that you are still forward thinking, as opposed to lost in the past. However, tweak that a bit and remove him from your thoughts of tomorrow. Tomorrow is about YOU and what YOU are going to do with the rest of YOUR life - without him. Face the divorce. It happened, it's awful, you didn't want it... you got it. What will you do with the new life you've just been handed? Pretty exciting when you think of it!
Greek

[Ready2Change]

Here's a story I learned here to help me understand my wife better:

You are having a big BBQ at your house on Saturday and you are busy on the grill and your wife is in the kitchen. All the guys come out and stand around you and drink a beer while you do all the grilling. In the kitchen your wife is making a salad while all the other women jump in and finish putting out the rest of the food, filling glasses, and making sure the table is ready. What are the conversations like at the grill vs in the kitchen?

If another man came up to you while you were grilling and started to help how would that go over? If the other women just watched your wife what would she say? It's a insult to a man to help another man without being invited, it's insulting to a woman not to help because there is work to be done. Ever get a dirty look while you are watching a game and your wife is cleaning?

Intuitively the men and women know how to act around each other, it's when our spouse needs help in a way that is best for them we struggle. Women want your support, listen to them and don't try to fix things for them. Men want to be in charge, fix problems, get things done and say as little as possible.

You have to be aware of what she really is telling you. Treating and speaking to your wife like she is a man is counterproductive. Do what works. Be a cat whisperer.

[Ready2Change]

The 800 pound gorilla isn't really there unless you let it be. If she wants to talk then be available but ler her come to you. Her silence is her problem. You playing and loving on your kids is how you create emotional connection without talking.

She will be attracted to you if you ignore the gorilla and keep being loving, interesting, fun, and confident.

[Ready2Change]

She has mentioned a few times that reconcillation after our dvorce is not out of the question.

TRANSLATION: "Play nice legally, and don't fight me on what I want, and MAYBE I'll consider getting back together with you at some point in the future."

No one's saying to be "hurtful" or "ugly," Resilient. What we ARE saying is, PROTECT YOUR INTERESTS.

Divorce, sadly, is a BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Look out for you kids first, yourself second, and your wife third -- in that order.

Stay civil and courteous, and let the lawyers handle the details.



Puppy

Maybe "hates my guts" is one of the stages. I think its a denial thing. It was mentioned that anger allows someone to feel empowered, where they would feel guilt or shame instead. We all know with anger people tear things up.

Yep. All the more reason to use the standard of "What is The Right Thing to Do in This Situation?" instead of "Will This Make Her Angry? How will her Anger Make ME Feel??"

If they're going to hate you anyway, you may as well do THE RIGHT THING!

Puppy

[Ready2Change]

How in the world can the WAW want me to stand up to her, when every time I do she gets even more pissed ?

She wants you to be able to stand up to her anger, rage, crying, fits, and emotions. She wants to be able to push and see if you are solid. She wants you to not be emotional (doesn't mean you aren't empathetic, compassionate or listening) when she is so there is balance.

How can she want me to fight for her when she just screamed at me the other day to MOVE ON !

She doesn't understand why you would want a woman who is living with another man. She can't believe you are pursuing her. She really wants you to move on so she can respect you.

That's why she says this:

" Just being in the same room with you enrages me "

You stand up to her by stating boundaries, protecting yourself and loving the kids. You don't put up with CB.

"I have decided I won't share you with another man. I will talk to my lawyer about how to handle the kids. I will box up the rest of your stuff and put in the garage." Then you go dark. You have fun with the kids. You GAL, you go out, you have fun. You will be watched.

If she starts to argue with you then just agree with her. "You are right, I see how you feel. It's not working for me either." That's how you stop the drama.

[Ready2Change]

When she seeks out your company, that's progress.

When she starts to comment on differences in you, completely unsolicited, that's progress. Act casual about them.

When she flirts with you at all, that's progress. Flirt back, a little, but be coy.

When she starts asking you questions about your life, particularly digging for info about you possibly dating, that's progress. Be vague in response, regardless of the truth.

When she starts to own her part, that's progress. Tell her how much you appreciate her saying it, and own some fault of yours in response. These are healing moments.

When she starts making physical contact with you, completely unsolicited, that's progress. Do not reciprocate at all at first.

When she invites you to do things with her alone, or with her and the kids, that's progress. Accept some, but not all of her invitations.

When she starts acting annoyed or hurt that you're doing fun things with the kids without her, that's progress.

If you are working on yourself, you are not spinning your wheels. If you are trying to "fix" your R, you are spinning your wheels, until she wants to "fix" it too.

[Ready2Change]

She is involved with another man. Let her go. Let them have each other. Pack her up and move her OUT. Time for her to go.

You're hurt and who wouldn't be but I promise you, when you look back on this time in your life, you'll want to feel proud of how you handled yourself - like a man, not like a boy. Right now, you are acting like a boy who can't live without this cake-eating girl. She is not acting like a woman, btw. More like a teenager lying to her daddy and hiding herself. Women don't do that - girls do. As long as you put up with it, she'll do it.

Step up. Be a man.

Greek

[Ready2Change]

As you may know, I was almost a WAW myself. Had my hand on the doorknob. A woman doesn't actually have to leave in order to be the WAW. It is what is in her heart. When her heart is closed to her own H....then she is considered a walk away. She has emotionally left her M.

I have read enough of your posts to see that you are a nice guy. So, this is where it has to stop. Does that surprise you to read this? There is a book that has been suggested to many, many men to read. It's called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". There is a website that tells more. You need to read it. It isn't a shame to be a good person...or even to be nice, but it is a shame to kiss your W's a$$, and sadly...that is what most nice guys do.

Nice guys try to do whatever they can to make the W happy and basically just to keep her off his back. If he has to swallow his pride and choke back a few words in order to keep the peace....then he does. But guess what that makes him? He becomes increasingly passive as time goes by. In the meantime, his W begins to lose respect for him. She can talk down to him....and he takes it, instead of putting her in her place. She bosses him around and he says, "Yes dear" and quietly does what he's told. He will do the housework, babysit while she goes out, give up his friends, anything just to keep her off his case.

Well, guess what? It doesn't work. She continues to get worse! She screams and bullies and throws fits.....and wonders how far she can push him before he'll stand up to her. She wipes her feet on him b/c his behavior says he is a doormat.

Do you think she respects him? No way! He is nothing like the man she fell in love with. She begins to despise "this" person he's become. And sex? She has lost any sexual attraction for him. Why? B/c she has lost all respect for him as a man.

You see, a woman cannot feel sexual attraction for her H if she cannot respect him as a man.

Women are not sexually attracted nor do they respect a passive man. I am not sure how it works, but I think God just wired us that way. I do know that whenever a woman can degrade a man and get away with it....then she has nothing but disgust for him.

So what am I saying? I'm saying that all this stuff you've been doing is not working....that's what I'm saying. She doesn't want you b/c you are pursuing her all the time. She is disrespecting you by having an A. You "asked" her if she wanted you to move out. That was a bad decision, but it's done. Don't go crawling back. If you go back....you walk in as the head of that home and take your rightful place.

Okay, so if you are still with me.....I want you to stop making contacts unless it is regarding your son. (Is this her child?) No email, TM, calls, etc. Whenever you do this...it is pursuing. The more the LBH pursues the WAW...the more he pushes her away. You may not understand how that works....but you don't have to understand. Just believe it! So are you ready to stop the chasing?

Set up a child visitation schedule so that each of you will know who is suppose to do what with him. Do not allow her to use the child as her "tool" to get her way about things. If she is out on the town, don't be at her place babysitting. She needs to wait until it's your turn to keep him, see what I'm saying?

Another good book to read is "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. This is when you really have to man-up and use tough love. She will not come around with you being all "sweet & nice". I know you said she was a good person.....but she has committed adultery. It may not have been a PA yet....but she committed emotional adultery and for a woman....that's greater. With women, emotions are what it's all about.

You on the other hand, will have to keep your emotions under control, especially in front of her. No breaking down and crying. No more telling her that she's hurt your feelings. (I know what you said about trying to open up about things like that, but that needs to wait until the M is on solid ground again.) If you feel the need to cry, you get off by yourself....don't do it in front of her.

A WAW needs to see her H being a strong, confident man who is able to lead his family through the toughest of times. She needs someone who is capable of providing for her and her children. She wants a man who will protect her & her family. These are the things you need to allow to shine through your actions and speech.

You need to think about boundaries and what would be the "deal breaker" in your M. What would you tell her that you couldn't live with? Boundaries are not ultimatums. I'll give you the link to read the excellent post about that. She will need to respect your boundaries or suffer the consequences, so think about what that would be also.

Come to the board before you act on any major decisions b/c your mind is tired and you're hurting emotionally. When a person acts on emotions, it's often the wrong thing to do. You can get great advice here on the board. Your thread was a bit slow at getting started, but sometimes it just takes time. Don't give up and continue to post often.

Here's the thread regarding boundaries:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1859179#Post1859179

Okay, so back off the pursuit. When you do see or speak to your W you keep a calm spirit. You do not act cold to her. Don't confuse what I am telling you. Detaching does not mean to treat her badly or to be cold hearted. It means that you are not chasing her. You are unavailable to her and her needs. You don't go running if her toilet overflows, or if she's had a bad day, or calls you in tears. You are a "busy" man. You don't have time right then to assist her. (BTW, always have a back-up plan to use.)

Never lie to her, but it's not her business to know every detail of your life. You don't have to tell her who you are going to see, what you have been doing, etc.

If you pull away from her...it will draw her closer to you. If you try to rope her in...she will resist and push away.

If she thought you did not want her, it would turn her interest around and she'd forget about OM. But as long as she knows you are drooling at the mouth for her, then she's not interested. Know what I mean?

[Ready2Change]

Hello All....many/most of you won't remember me. But I used to be on here pretty much everyday, all day. I got so much help and hope and support here...it really was my life line during a very very dark time.

Quick background, H left November 2008. He had an EA turned PA. She leaves and goes off into the sunset without him.

We have a four year old son together.

Update...We are divorced. We finalized in April.

But the reason I'm here is to tell you, I'm fantastic. I will also tell you, fight for your marriage. I am so very very glad I did. I'm so glad I GALed my a$$ off and survived this. I'm so glad I can tell my child Mommy fought with all her heart and soul for her marriage...and not because of my son...it was mostly for me and my H.

So let me take you back over the last 7 months.

November 2009. It's about the middle of the month before Thanksgiving. It's basically one year since H left. I'm talking to my hysterical Korean mother that I love more than life. We're talking about nothing really, just idle chit chat, like the weather and blah blah blah. Out of nowhere she says "Do you want to know why I hate H?" Shocked me because it was out of the blue and said with true venom. I said "Sure." She says that she hated him because her daughter now sounds sad. "For the first time in my life, you sound so sad. And it's in your voice. I don't think I could look at you right now because it might make me kill him." She went on to say that her favorite thing about me was the life in me, the happiness. And now, it was all gone. She said "You almost sound dead."

Well, that just about killed me. I was heart broken. My mother is the hardest working woman I know. She's the strongest woman I know. She's the best woman I know. I'm so proud of her and to be her daughter. I love the parts of me I know I've gotten from her.

So that was the start of my "come to the light" moment. I thought and thought and thought and thought for the next week or so. When it was done, I had come to the realization I had to move on. So I did.

I really went out and lived. I really looked at my son. I reconnected with friends. I hit the exercise hard and changed my diet. I got a new hair do. Got involved in some other projects in and out of work. I volunteer now. Etc, etc, etc.

Mind you, I did many of these things before as I was fighting for my marriage. But this time, I really did it. It wasn't just motion, this involved my new heart and new outlook. I was ready.

December 2009. My H notices these vast changes in me. Plus I'm no longer really hanging out with him. I'm not talking about stuff related to us, AT ALL. Matter of fact, I'm avoiding it. This month, I make love to him. For the last time. It was sad and wonderful at the same time. I really closed that chapter in my life...the one where I fought for my marriage.

January 2010. Life is better. More clear. I'm talking with my lawyer about what I need and want and really in my heart, trying to be fair and honest. Not trying to screw him. I start telling people at work. I take off my rings.

February 2010. I publicly change my name back to my maiden name. I decided to do this because H and I have very public jobs and as I was telling people we were divorcing many were so happy for me because they knew he had been cheating on me. It was amazing how liberating all of that was for me. I know many of want to keep this quiet and as you're fighting for your marriages, you should. But I want you to know, if it comes to this point for you, you can do it. People are wonderful and supportive.

March 2010. I tell H we can finalize later in the year. This would behoove us financially but from now on I wanted him to be clear I considered the marriage over and done and I was ready to move on with my life. He asked "What does that mean? Are you bleeping someone now?" No, that's not what it meant, but it did mean I was moving on and open to meeting new people and doing new things. I was ready for a life that did not include him except as our S's father.

End of March/April 2010. H starts to freak out. It was hard to watch and deal with. For so long all I wanted was for him to come home and say "I'm here. I love you and let's work this out. Let's be happy and married. I can do this. I can commit here to you and our family." When it happened, it was the worst thing I could imagine. I wanted to cry, hit him, scream, hug him....all of the above. But more than anything...I wanted him to shut up and leave.

He gets mad and pushes to finalize. He didn't believe I would sign until his lawyer called and said I had signed.

He continued to try to come home. He then pulled back and just tried to have sex with me. Neither has happened.

Basically folks, I came to realize...he would do it again. I once asked during his freak out "Will you go to counseling?" He said no. I don't know how we could have moved forward and worked on this without help. I do know in my heart he would do this again. And then my S would be older and truly understand what was happening and again, I would be heart broken. Maybe even worse.

MW does say in Divorce Remedy that IF you get divorced, you will survive. She even says there would be many people gasping and maybe even angry with her for saying that, but she's right and I'm glad she did say it.

Bottom line....listen to what you read in that book. Take it to heart. Oddly enough, it was when I truly gave up H wanted to come home. That's why you detach and live your life. By the time H wanted to come home though I really had changed and moved on.

Today. Today we are getting along. He still tries to be intimate which just makes me laugh. Every now and then he'll say something along the lines of getting back together and I say "I'll never say never but I can tell you...it ain't happening right now! You still have some growing up to do." And I do mean that.

Never give up hope but don't stop living either. Please please please take care of you and make sure you are happy. I know it's so dark right now you can't even imagine. I do remember those days. I remember them so well I can't believe I'm where I am now, but I promise you, you will be ok. One way or another.

[Ready2Change]

Friends~

You didn't really think you could get rid of me that easy did you?

I have been here, mostly reading, I may drop a line here or there, however that is about it.

Not much has changed in my sitch, however I have changed by leaps and bounds since I first came onto this board...

Wednesday, the lawyer will be officially hired.

H has hired one as well and has taken to bullying tactics in order for me to give him the D his way.

I have seen more lawyers in the past 16 months than I ever wanted to see, now I have settled on the best one I could hire.

It is bound to get uglier before it gets better so I am preparing myself for that.

I have a fantastic support system in place which includes a few DB members as well.

If you would have told me a year ago, I would be in this place, happier, healthier and looking forward to what the day brings, I would have called you a liar.

By removing myself from "limbo" I was able to finally start healing myself, I still have bad days however they are becoming further and further apart.

"Dropping the rope" was the best thing I ever did, I just wish it hadn't taken me so long...

Yet I think and see how much healthier time has made me...Mentally, physically and most important, spiritually...

I am now on the road to becoming a minister with my ultimate goal being a Pastor ~ ME!!

I have learned so much in the past year...Some beliefs have been re-enforced, some have been altered and some have dropped.

The most important lesson I have learned?

I am a beautiful woman who has much more self-worth than I gave myself credit for.

I have strength I never knew even existed...

I am no longer a doormat ~ That was the most important lesson for me to learn...

I have a mind, I have feelings and I have an opinion...

None of those are stiffled any longer.

To the newcomers, two things for you...

Time really is a wonderful healer...

Limbo is something you allow yourself to be put into...

The same person who put you into limbo is the same one that can take you out ~ You.

((((((Hugs))))))

I will be around.

[Ready2Change]

In the meantime if I did decide to date would that be a bad thing? I miss the company of a woman, and well I feel like if one came along some dating could be enjoyable.

Don't look for band-aids or distractions. It is time for you to look in the mirror.

[Ready2Change]

Becoming mysterious isn't your answer here.

Your ANSWER is to validate HER. You are trying to validate everything she does and says EXCEPT THE ONE AND MOST IMPORTANT THING... That is that she WANTS OUT..

Every time she says she is done and wants out, you always tell her that isn't what you want. That is NOT validating her and what she wants.

If she wants out and you say you love her then you should love her enough to allow her to leave and allow her to divorce you.

There is only ONE way to validate her that works in these situations....

It goes like this... "WS, I have been doing some thinking and here is what I have decided. I NOW realize that you really don't want this marriage or me anymore. I realize that what I have done in the past has destroyed any chance of you ever loving me again. I now realize that I have been trying to keep you and get you to love me back with making some changes that should have been made a long time ago. I now realize that no matter how much I try and no matter how much I wanted this to work that your mind is made up and your feelings are not going to change. I now AGREE that it is too late and that we can not make this work. I will no longer make an effort to try to save this marriage. We need to decide how we are going to separate our things such as the house, the money, etc... I think it would be best if you moved out. Your dad should have your place ready shortly and I think it would be best if you moved there while we take care of the divorce process. Don't worry about me and my parents and the house. I will handle it. I am sorry that I haven't been paying attention to how badly you wanted out, but after this weekend it really hit me that it isn't going to work and that you are RIGHT."


And THEN you start going out and doing things like you started to yesterday.. Acting mysterious BEFORE telling and showing her you FINALLY get it is a waste of time. It will be more productive for you AFTER you give her the I am letting go for good speech. It is YOUR letting go that could turn her around. IT isn't going to turn around ever, if you don't let go. NEVER. It will NEVER turn around UNTIL you let go and agree with her. If you agree with her stance then and only then do you have a chance.

[Ready2Change]

Women are ATTRACTED to men with EMOTIONAL STRENGTH... strength in times of stress. Strong when all around them is crumbling.. THAT is the strength she will respond to.

To get there you don't need to understand what your WAW is thinking but understand what she is feeling. Why your actions are making her feel the way she does. Confidence, poise, and self-control are actions you take as a man that make a woman feel attracted to you and safe in your presence. Doesn't mean you don't have fear but have the courage to handle it the right way. You have to be emotionally strong to lead like this.

Use what currently works, understand what doesn't work and why you keep doing it anyway, find a new behavior, try it and keep it if it works. This works for me - Thoughts proceed Emotion and emotion proceeds Action -TEA. Your woman needs to know her man can control his emotions to take the right action when needed. This is a primal instinct that is hardwired in us.

Changing my beliefs, changes my thoughts, which in turn changes my emotions and ultimately changes the actions I take.

[Ready2Change]

It is much easier once the LBS realizes they are worth way more than what is in front of them, accept what has become, take note that this is the only life you get, drop the rope and move on.

[Ready2Change]

Just stopping in to post one last time in this particular section of these forums as I cannot foresee what the following weeks hold in store for me. I do look forward to them with open eyes now and a different perspective then when I first came here. I am ready now for any outcome be it the end of one thing or the beginning of another.

I am also not going to link to my past stitches as they are exactly that. The past, I cannot change the past, and I will not dwell there as I will never go back to being the same person. I guess you could say I have become “Enlightened” from what I have read in these very forums and reading Divorce Busting 3 times now. (Plus countless other books)

Would like to leave one bit of advice for any newcomer who may read this and are going through the whirlwind of a marriage gone wrong, you will have many questions and will try so many things and await an outcome.

But in my personal opinion only, you will fail at all advice given here if you do not reach the point that you truly believe in your mind, body and soul that this is not the end of the world. You have to come to the point were you are willing to accept everything and anything that comes your way and have the self confidence that you can and will over come.
There is a quote somewhere in this forum that goes roughly like this “A soldier cannot do his job until he realizes he is already dead”. For me that is the one saying that has stuck in my mind since day one. And yes like many here, I half assed attempted much of the advice given in this forum and from DB and waited to see changes in my spouse. WRONG WRONG WRONG

You cannot change someone, they can only do that. You have to change yourself and BELIEVE in these changes. You have to be these changes and live them. I have heard many say that the “teachings” and advice in these forums are “faking”. Well I can tell you now that if you are “faking” you will fail miserably at trying to save your marriage.

My example: I have always wanted to be a professional photographer. But I let fear of circumstances in my marriage stop me from pursuing this. 4 weeks ago I bought a top end camera and a couple really sweet lenses to go with it. I made some phone calls to my local Parks and Recreation and now I have so many calls coming in for me to shoot various events I have almost everyday booked with something to do I love. You would not believe how much peace and happiness this has brought to me. It’s like the sun is shining through the clouds for the first time in months, maybe years. I have become a much more relaxed, even tempered, smiling, open and caring person you would ever want to meet. Did it piss my wife off when I went out and dropped all that cash on a new camera? Of course it did. But what is she going to do? Divorce me? LoL wait till she sees what I am bringing home from Murphy’s camera today after work.

But the key here is over these past few weeks I began to do much inner soul searching and realized what I had been doing wrong. (Thinking is much easier when you have some peace in your life, believe me.) I did not believe that I was a better person. I was waiting for changes in my wife instead of focusing on changes inside myself.
So in closing, this is what has worked for me. I read through DB 3 times until I fully understood what was being told there. I read dozens if not hundreds of posts in these forums.
I began to follow the advice but I was still not getting the point and I was not getting anywhere and started to fall into that black hole that I started at.
Only when I began to truly believe in myself and find inner peace with what was going on in my life have a truly reached what I feel what is success.
Will this save my marriage? I do not know. But regardless of the outcome I am now prepared for tomorrow and could really care less about yesterday.
I do apologize for such the long post, but if it helps one person here then I have accomplished something.

P.S. Thank you all who have taken the time to help me through the dark times and given so much advice and support, I truly appreciate it and will be following it now the way I should have been 6 months ago.

[Ready2Change]

Setting Them Free Thread

[Ready2Change]

A Note to all Newcomers, Piecers and those Currently Suffering from the Hell that is Infidelity:

You would be wise, indeed, to do a search of Hope4Us's past posts, and study his entire volume of work. If MulesQB's is the best example I can think of of a marriage that ENDED, nevertheless, being successfully DB'd, then Hope4Us's is the best example that I've ever seen here on a successfully-RECONCILED marriage. The best mix of tough stance exposure, combined with an unrelenting patience in the face of a formerly wayward spouse's initial stubbornness and unrepentance.

Mulesqb
Hope4Us

You can't go wrong to study those two guys. They truly embody "Strength and Honor" in their DBing.

All my best to you and your wife, H4U. And may I add -- with apologies to my old friend Hairdog --

. . . "lucky bastard."

Puppy

Hope4US posts

H4US first post

MulesQB posts

MuleQB first post

[Ready2Change]

I'm going to give my experience as to what worked on me and got my attention. I was the cheater in my marriage by the way. I was full into an affair and "in love".

My wife exposed to everyone. Her family, my family, our friends not the kids though). This didn't immediately stop me but it blew the fantasy off our affair and started me thinking about things that I hadn't really considered, like my kids.

After some initial pursuing, she stopped. She even handed me the cleaning supplies I needed so I could move into one of our rentals. She agreed that this OW was probably my soul-mate and dropped the rope. Reality was beginning to set in.

At this point, OW and I decided the affair was wrong, and would hurt innocent children so we broke it off. It was very difficult. I felt like my life and dreams were ending. My grieving process lasted about as long as the affair, which was short as my wife found out fairly early.

I've read that the grieving process lasts about as long as the affair lasts, so you can see the importance of busting the affair as early as possible.

Some things she did to get my feelings back for her - First, she dropped the rope. I wasn't as important as I thought I was. This was a blow to my ego and surprised me.

She didn't wallow in front of me or the kids. Any pain she felt, she did it in private. Once again, a blow to my ego.

She didn't drop the ball with the kids, or her job.

She went out and got some things done. New hairstyle, straightened her hair. New (sexy but classy) wardrobe, shoes, nails done, make up, etc. She was hot, confident and she showed it by her actions and attitude.

She started getting made up and going out on her own. Not recommending it, but going dancing, clubbing, some drinking. More wild. She took control of herself and the situation.

This turned my feelings around 180.