I don't know where to begin as I feel that I am at my end.
[Is it time to throw in the towel and move on to bigger and better things?]
I have not posted for almost 2-years now.
Check out my history in my link in my signature block below.
I have been DB for what almost 3-years now. The good news is that W has not mentioned the D word for a long time, but she does say things like "how long do I have to suffer," or "how long do I have to be with you," or "I just want to hurt you" from time to time when she is really angry. Most of the time we rarely speak unless it is about the kids. The kids are older now and have become quite difficult. We can't seem to agree on discipline. The W does nothing to assist me with maintaining the household chores, although I am beginning to teach the children to assist, i.e. laundry, dishes, trash-out, house-cleaning, etc. If I don't do it, it usually doesn't get done and unfortunately I am the type that doesn't like messes so I usually let it get really bad in hopes that she will take some initiative, but she rarely does so then I feel as if I am constantly doing it.
We have been sleeping in separate rooms for about a year. Sex is non-existent. I don't even try anymore because when I did I was usually turned down or she made me feel as if she was doing me a favor and it would only be in the shower. This was on average only once a month anyway. I occasionally try to hug and kiss her and tell her that I love her, but even this rare as she never reciprocates. [Should I keep trying to have sex and should I keep trying to hug, kiss, and tell her that I love her or not?]
We have attempted professional counseling, marriage enrichment seminars, date nights, walks in the park, talks about the good times, I constantly revisit Michele's books and CDs, I've acted as if, done a 180, had DB Coach, etc. I believe I have tried it all to no response, reciprocation, or change in my W for going on 3-years now. [Is there anything I haven't tried or that I can still do to save my marriage?]
I believe the only thing that may be keeping her from serving me with divorce papers is the challenge that she knows she will have trying to take care of the kids on her own or the loss of some income that keeps her living large. I think she thinks us being room mates (which is what she calls us sometimes), having whatever it is she wants/needs, and me taking care of the kids is better than her being alone and trying to do it all [She has never said this, but it just my thoughts/opinion - Should I ask her why? What does anyone else think?].
I have definitely been focusing on myself in these last 3-years as I completed a Masters Degree, was promoted in my job, and still work out 3-5 times per week. I have taken up the hobby of face book to stay communicated and socialize with old HS classmates. I find no matter what that most of my time and daily enjoyment is spending time with my children when not at work. I only work on average 9-5, so I see them practically every morning and evening, although on average I travel for a week once a month or so. The only other thing other than for my W to love and cherish me again is to take up my old hobbies of reading books and tinkering/riding motorcycles and Classic Cars. As much as I would like to get into this again, it is an expensive time consuming hobby that may take money and time away from my family that I do not want to compromise.
When speaking to my W about anything, it usually ends up in a critical complaining session about me, i.e. I work too much, I travel too often, I don't spend enough time with the kids, I don't give her enough space, I don't do enough around the house, etc. I just validate by saying I am sorry you feel that way and I will try harder. This really seems to piss her off even more. Her biggest complaint is that she says she feels tired all of the time, that she needs more space, and that the only thing that gives her pleasure or happiness is shopping or taking care of herself, which is what she does a lot of in my opinion. She goes shopping for new clothes almost every weekend, she gets her nails done once a week, she tans and goes to the gym everyday, and gets her hair done at least once a month. She takes time for laser hair removal and facials as well. I give her space every evening so that she is by herself in her room alone watching TV. She even goes out with girlfriends from time to time on weekends and evenings to go shopping [Does all of this seem normal? How much space does she need?]
I only ask for a little love and tenderness from time to time, a hug, a kiss, not necessarily even sex but some gentle affection, touching or something, but I have gotten nothing for many years. [Should I be asking for it and if so how often? If not, will it ever come back?] I feel so lonely, sad, hurt, and depressed over her. I am not unhappy with my life just with our relationship. I have to admit I ponder the idea of pursuing an affair or even worst a call girl. Rest assured I haven't done it yet. I don't want this, but I want and feel I need passion, affection, and human touch. [How do I get this if my W is not willing to give?]
Granted she has a career (that she hates and says she is going to retire from next year) where she starts her days early, so she tries to go to bed early. I typically get the kids up, dress them, feed them, pack their lunches, and take them to school. She normally picks them up and brings them home from school. If I am not already home fixing dinner, she goes out and gets take out to feed them. She rarely cooks. After I get home she is off to watch TV and then to bed. I spend the rest of the evening time with the kids on their homework, playing, reading, baths, and then put them to bed. Some may say she is depressed, still going through post-partum, or menopause, but as we have discussed this she refuses to seek help. I personally have suspicions that she is having an affair again, but have no real proof. I know that she takes off a day or so every now and again in the middle of the week from work, but I don't know what she does all day. I work from home sometimes and vary my days between multiple offices, so I am on the road a lot and then home sometimes so I know she does not stay home. I have gone by or called her office on occasion to offer taking her to lunch which is when I find out she is not there. If I ask her where she was or where she is going, her typical response to me in a condescending disrespectful tone is, "what do I care?" She usually follows this with some excuse she is searching for such as I had to pick up something from somewhere or I had to meet someone somewhere of course it is all job related. She doesn't know that I know that her X-husband came to visit her at work and brought her flowers. [Should I be more aggressive and ask her if she is having an affair, why didn't she tell me about the X, and where is she when she is not at work or does this really even matter if I am trying to save my marriage? Highly unlikely that she would admit as she did not admit the first time even when I had proof, so what is the point right?]
Overall, is this all grounds to call it quits and move on or should I stick it out through thick and thin for the benefit of the kids and in hopes that someday she will change? If I do give up this marriage, how do I do it with the kids and all? I want them all the time, but when she threatened divorce many years ago she said she would fight and win because she is the mother custody of the kids and keep me from them as much as possible?]
She is such an angry woman and I just don't know why or what I can do to help her. I still see in her eyes the beautiful woman that I met, fell in love with, and married almost 10 years ago now. Even though she spends so much money on beautification I see her somewhat of an old ugly angry witch that is under some deep dark cloudy spell that I only hope and pray that someday the spell is broken and that the dark clouds clear.
Note most of my friends and support network say I do way more than the average father and husband, especially one that has a career. They all also say it is time for me to cut my losses and move on or they ask me at what point will make that decision. I just feel and keep telling myself, this is the woman of my dreams that I chose and that someday will be that same woman that I fell for. [Am I wrong?]
In addition, I am a Christian, I pray, and go to Church regularly, but I have to say that this situation has challenged my faith to the max to where I am even finding that I am cursing God and considering other options. I sometimes take the children or even go alone as the W stopped going with me some time ago. She used to but just stopped. She said she takes Sunday Church time when I go either by myself or with the kids as another time for her to have alone time or just space away from me.
I believe I am a Great Father and that I could be a Great Husband to her if she would let me!
Looking for answers. Looking for advice.
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to listen and provide feedback.
Well since no one has replied and I am feeling lonely down and out, I will just use this as a journal to post goings on and possibly someone will eventually give me some good advice.
My W left for out of town for the weekend for work. We had taken the kids to the park together the day before she left, which is rare one that she takes the kids anywhere and secondly that she invites me to come along. So we go and have a good time. During the time to and from we don't even speak to each other. While at the park the kids have a great time playing and once again we rarely speak unless it is about them. If I try to get close to her, she seems to move away. She mentions being cold, so I attempt to warm her up with arm and shoulder rubs. I press my body close to hers and smell her hair. She smells so good and I am so horny for her. I say nothing, but only hope she gets the hint that I need her love and affection. We are there a couple of hours before dark and then go home. We get the kids to bed. She packs to gets ready to depart early in the morning and then we go to bed. I had hoped for some affection, but once again she goes to the other bed in the other room and says nothing. I thought of approaching her and asking for sex while the kids are asleep, but I didn't. [My question now, is should I have said or done more at the park; what do I talk about to avoid conflict; and or should I have attempted sex the night before she left for the business trip?] I know Divorce Busting would indicate that no, that she has to make the first move, but it has been three years and it does not seem to be getting any better. [Do I pursue an actual physical separation or divorce myself?] I am just longing for conversation, attention, and physical affection. I am not an ugly man as I am very physically fit, dress nice, and am approached or looked at whenever and wherever I am with or without my kids, but W doesn't seem to notice or even care (of course she is very physically attractive as well and the same happens for her, which of course leads to my insecurity since she is not giving me the attention and affection that I desire and need so therefore I am concerned that she may be getting it for herself elsewhere.) [What does anything else think that has been through this?]
Would it be appropriate to hire a private detective to investigate to see if she is in fact cheating on me? Is it okay to go behind her and check her phone calls and messaages? Maybe I should just straight out ask her if she is having affair or not? If she admits, do I file for divorce or let it go? I know that since if it was a true fact I would have to utilize the ultimatum method. Once again, I am just concerned for my young children. I don't want someone else to raise them. I want to be able to see them as much as possible. But I wonder if our distance and lack of love and affection is actually negatively affecting them. Originally, my W said her happiness is more important than staying together for the kids, but like I have said she is still here but we are more like roommates and not even friendly getting along roommates as we can't even agree on or compromise with basic household chores let alone taking care of and raising the kids. What to do what to do???
I find that I am spending more time surfing the web for porn and or even looking at Craigslist for call girls, although I am terrified of being arrested for doing something illegal therefore I have not done anything yet. Is it inappropriate to look at porn when a marriage is in turmoil? I keep convincing myself that it is better than actually having an adulterous affair like she had. I guess in the eyes of God it is the same thing, but at least it is not as physically satisfying as a real person. What to do what to do?
I know some would say get a life, but I feel that I do have a good life outside of my marriage. I love my job, I am good at it, and I can spend as much or as little as time working as I want. I work out at a gym as often as I would like, which is on average 3-5 times per week depending on the work schedule. I am involved with my kids activities in and out of school, ie dance class, karate class, homework, playtime, movietime, readingtime, and soccer. I was thinking of enrolling them in some sort of music class next. Ocassionally, I go out after work with friends for dinner or drinks. I surf the net and do facebook in the evenings after everyone is in bed for another outlet to socialize or for entertainment. I read when I want to. The only other thing I desire to do is ride my motorcycle more often or to buy an old classic car to tinker on, drive, and possibly even show. The only challenge I see with personal hobbies is that for anytime that I spend on myself is time I could have spent with my children, so I intend that their time is my priority one. Once again, if I am not working, I am with them, and then after they go to bed is when I do things for myself, otherwise I have to plan datenights, etc. I have also thought about taking a vacation either by myself or with friends, but I am sure the W would frown upon it and I would be concerned for myself that if I had that kind of freedom that I might do something that I could regret. [What does anyone else think that is or may have been in my shoes in a similar situation?]
By the way, I took my W on a datenight a couple of weeks ago to dinner theater. I texted her (because she rarely answers my phone calls) during the week and suggested a datenight. She agreed. Since she doesn't ever plan anything and if I were to ask her, she would say she doesn't care, I set-up a dinner theater date, because I had never done it, although I know that she has and she had said she enjoyed it. So I set-up a babysitter for a Friday evening, dropped the kids off, and we went out. We actually sat next to each other, talked mostly about work (common theme for us as we are in the same business), had a good dinner, and even laughed a little together at the show. After the show, of course I was hoping for a little love and affection, but still got none. It was go home, pick up the kids, pay off the baby sitter, put the kids to bed, and then us to bed in separate rooms. How depressing huh?
It's funny how I remember setting up a datenight about a year or so ago, where I made a similar plan, then took the kids to a sitter and instead of actually going out when I came home she was dressed all sexy, had candles lit, and just wanted to make love. This actually occurred twice in one year over the span of several months. What happend? Why doesn't she want to do this now? Should I ask her why?
Normally when I used to ask her if she loves or misses me, she would straight out say no, so I am sure to never ask because this just hurts deep to the core. Years ago we used to kiss and hug before we left for work in the morning and when we came home in the evening, but now I still try from time to time and only get the pecking kiss back and no hug at all. Darn-it I need hugs! Should I keep trying this or just stop it all together until she initiates it?
Another story to tell, is when we took a family vacation a couple of months ago where we had ample opportunities to be loving and affectionate because plenty of family around to watch the kids so that we could be alone and get plenty of rest, but during a period of two weeks we only had sex once and it was in the morning in the shower...of course I initiated it by asking...wrong thing to do right? It is obvious that she has the power and I am just a follower/pursuer, but what is a man to do when he loves, cherishes, adores, and is extremely attracted to his wife. Just sit back and look at her everyday and do nothing. What to do what to do?
I am obviously a rambler, so I will stop for now as I have stated several examples and asked lots of questions. But one final thought for those that actually read my post, what would you do or have you done that has worked in this game of divorce busting? Thank you.
Ok, this is depressing. Maybe that's why no one answered. Doesn't sound like you have tried Retrouvaille. I highly recommend it. The website is http://www.helpourmarriage.org. Read up on the misery stage of marriage. That's where you are now. And that is where you will stay unless you both make changes. If you go to Retrouvaille, they will show you the way to make changes.
Should you ask for sex? Yes. In the shower. That's the best chance you have of getting it. Should you stop the kisses? Only if you never want another kiss again. Don't you see the pattern? She will not initiate any closeness. If there is to be closeness, you have to initiate it. Will you get it if you ask? I don't know. Will you get it if you don't ask? Nope, not ever.
Try to get her to go with you to Retrouvaille. It cannot make your situation worse. It may not make it much better, but it cannot make it worse.
Wow! Thanks for responding...you don't have to tell me "this is depressing." I am living it. Isn't everyone going through something similar depressing? What is your story or are you just advertising? Never heard of "Retrouvaille" and I will try anything. I just requested information. Thanks again for the referral.
I believe I am willing to make changes. I am not sure that my wife is, but I won't know until I try right? Like I have said before, we have tried three professional and one spiritual counselor over a period of several months during the course of our almost 9-year marriage as well as have attended two separate marriage enrichment program seminars and we were just getting to do another until she backed out. She has said she is not going to spend anymore money on counselors as she feels that they are a waste of our money. Obviously I believe the contray and will continue to push her towards whatever may help/work. I believe I have learned a little either about us or me from each of them, but none of them have had lasting affects, impacts, or changes in the overall scheme of our marriage, so once again I will consider, recommend, and actually try anything at this point so thank you once again for the opportunity to try and learn something new.
I appreicate your advice, but if you look back to the responses to my original post almost 3-years ago, the advice given to me was always to give her space and not try anything unless she initiated, which I have gone back and forth on...this is one of the methods of the divorce busting book, i.e. try to see what works, act as if, etc. Divorce Busting has been the guidelines that I keep going back to and trying everything except the ultimatum, only because I have believed as long as she has not spoke to me about divorce or served me with papers that I am still successfully divorce busting. Except now as time goes on, I just feel miserable and am becoming increasingly concerned about my children.
So if I am hearing you correctly, never give up and always keep trying for dates, hugs, kisses, and sex? She will either reciprocate as I desire or she will push back as she usually does. If she pushes back or asks for space, what do I do, walk away and act like nothing ever happened or do I ask why? I believe usually when she pushes away or tells me she needs space, I automatically and uncontrolably get angry. Sometimes I ask why, make a comment or just say nothing. Then I either walk away in silence, go to my room to cry, satisfy myself, or leave the house for a few hours. Just so you know, her usual responses when I ask why are the following: "I don't love you, I don't like you, I don't feel like it, I just brushed my teeth or just put make up on, etc." Does any of this mean anything?
I used to give her flowers, gifts (clothes or jewelry), sing her songs, and write her letters. I stopped, because I noticed she would just let the flowers die, ask me to or return the gifts herself, walk away or ignore my singing, and never respond to my letters or in some cases I have found the envelopes never opened. These are things she used to enjoy when we are dating and the first few years of our marriage. She doesn't tell me what she likes or wants anymore. Should I keep trying to do these things or not?
There's my thread with my story on it. No, I'm not just advertising for Retrouvaille. It changed my marriage from the misery stage to a happy marriage.
As I understand it, there are no hard and fast rules in DB except "do what works." It sounds like what you are doing is not working. It may be hard to convince her to try Retrouvaille, though it sounds like you are both miserable. With 2 young children, spending one weekend of your life trying to make the marriage better for everyone doesn't seem like too big of a commitment.
I am not saying I express uncontrollable anger, just that I feel angry, frustrated, and disappointed and then I usually say nothing and walk away, because when I do say anything she doesn't respond (for example when we were on vacation recently on two separate occassions we had the perfect opportunities to be intimate or even just talk because the kids were being watched by relatives and we were all alone undisturbed, but she chose to sleep--I asked her if you are not talking with me or having sex with me who are you spending time with or having sex with because I find it hard to believe that you can go week after week and month after month without. She refused to even respond, so then in both cases I went for a jog. Funny I brought this up in front of her older sister one of the next days and she used the excuse of being tired. Her sister said she was crazy and that she should of took the opportunity to be with me because she would have and there will always be time for sleep later in life. It was nice to have her sister on my side for a change.); or she says she doesn't want to talk about it, that she wants to be alone, wants space, wants to watch TV, doesn't have time, or tells me just to leave, so that is what I usually do. I leave the area, the house, or just go to another room and do my own thing. I don't see that forcing conversation gets us anywhere other than into ugly arguments, where she says something extremly mean or threatens to hit me. I just say my peace and leave. Then if I ever try to bring it up later, she responds the same. It is as if she is in some sort of denial. She definitely does not respect me.
Right "do what works." I seem to go in circles using the DB rules, where sometimes somethings works for a while and then things change for the worse, so then I go back and try something else again.
I will get the details of Retrouvaille close to my city and approach her about it. Like I have said I will try, but it will be up to her to agree to go.
Thanks again for so far being the only one willing to help.
I checked out your sitch. Wow impressive that you have been together for 30 years. Congratulations. Obviously it has not been easy, but you should be proud that you are both still there working towards the "happily ever after."
Note: I liked your approach of having your son call your H OP. I remember when I busted my wife, I asked her if she thought of our children and what they would think if they knew. She said she didn't do it for or that she wouldn't even stay for the children. She said she did it to make herself happy because she said she deserves to be happy. She also said she did it in hopes that I find out so that it would make divorce easier. I guess I showed her she was wrong. She also angrily said why would we ever tell the children. I said I believe they have the right to know the wrong their mother did and the hurt that it caused daddy, so that possibly we prevent that they ever do the same. I try to live and display a value based life of honor and integrity and want to teach my children the same. I am not sure that my wife feels this way any longer. Of course, our children are very young and would not understand at this age, but if things were not to work out I believe they have a right to know what happened, but if things were to finally become great than it would be water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.
I also wanted to mention that W comes from a disfunctional family herself. I never really knew this, because when I met her she never really even spoke of family. She had indicated that she was not close to them and that she left home at 18 never to turn back. I should have taken this as a warning sign, because right after marriage she took me to meet the family and has been building her relationship with them ever since and especially since having children. I believe building the relationships were her family are good for her and I have always supported her in this, but it seems to have been bad for us as they are a bad negative influence on her. For example her mother had six children from five different men. She married the first one, whom supposedly died, had the second, third, and fourth out of wedlock from two different men, then married a man and had two more children only one was from another man that she had an affair with while being married to the other. In addition, she adopted a seventh child. My W was not raised by her father but by the second husband. She never even met her original father until last year. Every single one of the children have had children out of wedlock except my wife, whom waited to be married to me and I am her second marriage, to have children. Every single one of the siblings have been married and divorced at least once except for one that married the father of the children and is still together; and another is still not married but has a child. Three of the others have been through or are currently going through divorce. My W recognizes the disfuctionality and has even admitted needing counseling, but once again refuses to spend the money on something she feels she already knows the problem. She apparently also went through counseling after her first marriage for herself and has not been back since other than when we tried on four separate occassions where all ended with her saying it was not helping "me." She always places blame back on me. To this day she openly admits to hating her mother for being a bad example, adulterer, liarer, maniupulator, etc. I also see from listening to her speak and seeing her expressions when she talks that she also sees that two of her siblings seem very happy going through divorce and feeds off of that positive energy to possibly justify her actions in making me miserable in hopes that I divorce her. One last thing, her mother even asked me one time why do I stay with her since she is so ugly and mean to me...I am not sure but this may have been a set-up. I didn't bite. I just told her I loved my family too much to initiate a divorce. Divorce is too easy. Marriage and relationships are hard and worth working on and fighting for. I love my wife. I still believe that kind hearted compassionate loving sexual dynamo soul that I met, fell-in-love with and married is still deep within her core just waiting to come out and find me again.
Once again, thanks to all for listening and I hope things continue to be great for you.
Hi, I did not read your entire story but I have read enough to know that your wife is angry b/c of an A that went bad or else she is emotionally involved with a married man who will not leave his wife and she feels trapped in this M with you. That is just the first impression I got from scanning over these posts here. I did not go back and read what you had posted when you were on the board before.
I was an AWAW and had an EA with a man over the Internet. It was not pretty. I was ready to walk out on a M of many, many years. It would have devastated many people if I had done that. But, I was in such a mess emotionally that it was as if I was not "me" any longer. Anyway, I chose to stay in the M b/c of my family and others that would have been affected if I had walked out on my H and went to the OM. So, I was angry for a long time. I did not feel anything for my H, either. I see myself in what you have said about your wife. However, I have been able to move on and with God's help and a lot of prayer, my feelings for my H have been restored. But, I see your W as one who feels "trapped" in a R that she does not want. Either there is another person she wants and can't have, or the other affair did not pan out the way she wanted it to, or she has some other serious issues. Maybe all of it!
If it is not another person she wants and can't have, then it seems to me that a very professional family counselor needs to help the two of you. All the "excuses" she finds to blame you with is just ridiculous and it is a cover up for something else. Until that "something else" is uncovered and dealt with, I'm afraid she is not going to put forth any effort in this R. That is just MHO for whatever it's worth.
Take care, Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow! Thanks for your response. I agree with everything you are saying, but I don't know what to do about it. I have thought the same. I believe she may be stuck on the A that she had 3-years ago that blew up in her face. For all I know they are still seeing each other, although they promoised not to. Or maybe she moved on to someone else. I have no idea. I check the phone records from time to time and have not seen his number, but of course that doesn't mean anything. I wish I did know. I haven't asked for a long time. Should I? When I used to ask her, she of course denied it. Should I hire a private detective or just file for divorce?
Just to tell a story, we were physically split-up for four months after the A (back in the fall in 06) due to work. While she was away we would speak everyday because of the kids. She would actually tell me that she missed the OM, but promised not to speak to him. She would also tell me that she no longer feels anything for me and never will.
Background: The OM, whom was a friend of mine, is a Doctor and my W, always wanted to be a Doctor. The OMW is a Physician's Assistant (PA) in the same Doctor's office. My W is now wanting to go to school to be PA. She is angry with me for not supporting her. The truth is I do support her. But one, why should I and two, It's know wonder why I shouldn't support her or that she should think that I shouldn't support her when we add this all together. It makes me think that my W is hoping to replace the OMW someday. Once again is she missing him, thinking about him, or mabye still seeing him. Should I ask her about all of this?
More Background: When I busted them, I found a letter the OM wrote my W. Instead of approaching him or her, I went to the Doctor's office and approached his wife first. His wife took me to meet him and we approached him together. Obviously they were devastated, but last I heard they were still together. I used to speak to her for a few months after, but as my wife and I did go to a professional counselor for a while the counselor suggested I stop. I did and have not spoken to OM's wife for over 2-years. I have been wanting to contact her just to see if they are still together or not. Should I contact her?
My W stopped going to the counselor and to this day refuses professional counseling. She says things like she knows what her problems are; that she accepts them; that she is not going to spend good money for a counselor to tell her what she already knows. Although she likes to constantly criticize me and tell me that I need a counselor. I don't deny that I do and I did, but I no longer felt comfortable going alone. It's like walking on egg shells in this house as far as when and what to speak to my W about or even how to speak to, play with, take care of, and or discipline the children.
Once again, should I stick it our or should I go?
I want to stay to be with my children, but I feel so sad, lonely, and believe I deserve better.
Hi, I am sorry you are having such a rough time. I know you have been divorcebusting...but have you talked to one of our coaches? They really are experts in finding the best way to approach your partner at this time of your situation. There are a couple of sessions still available today or Sat. I know you would benefit greatly. Take good care.
Karen, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 karen@divorcebusting.com
Give me a call if you'd like to schedule an appointment to speak with a Divorce Busting® Coach.
Actually I have spoken to two of your coaches. Once back in 2006 after I had learned of my W's A. Then about a year later I tried again. My experience is that if I pay for three sessions, the first session is spent telling my story/history/situation. The second session is developing a plan. And the third is discussing if the plan worked or not. In both cases, I did not notice long term results. The first approach was to give my W space, focus on myself, and eventually she would pay attention or come back to me. Short of moving out of the house, I have given her all the space she could ever desire. As far as focussing on myself, I do anything and everything that I desire short of dating other women (which I honestly believe at this point I am just waiting for the perfect opportunity for this) and I am completly happy with myself. It would seem none of this has worked. The second approach was to change me in order to get her attention, i.e. changed my hair style, clothes, and take up a new hobby and or do something outrageous that I typically wouldn't do such as Karaoke. I did all this, colored my hair, bought new clothes, took up dance lessons, and went to Karoke bars and even brought a machine home to use with the kids and at parties. Although it did spark some immediate interest from her as far as why I was doing it, but eventually she didn't seem to care. Then eventually I got bored with maintaining the hair, clothes, dance lessons and or even going out to Karoke alone. She did not want to pay for a sitter for the kids and go with me.
The worst thing is we live under the same roof raising our children, but we don't sleep in the same bed; we don't hug, kiss, nor have sex; we rarely talk unless it is about the kids or work. I just miss having deep personal conversations with her, holding her, touching her, passionately hugging and kissing her, and of course making love with her...all those things that were so great that we did so much of the first few years of dating and early in our marriage. Why do these things have to change? Why is life, love, and God so cruel to us humans?
Regardless, I have honestly been thinking about calling another DB coach again only because I feel so alone, lost, dazed, and confused; don't really know how to approach my W anymore; and don't want to start, go to, or pay for another professional counselor. I may try another marriage enrichment seminar or even the Retro that was recommended to me earlier in this thread, but I obviously need to coordinate the dates and ensure my W is willing to go.
I may call you during the day, today, Saturday. Thanks.
