I have officially been DBing for almost 3-years and unbeknownst to me longer than that (apparently she had been unhappy for many years, even claimed she never was happy). My first original sitch post is in my signature block below. My most recent sitch post is http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1736832&page=1#Post1736832, where it was recently suggested that I start reading and posting here.
My W has not walked out of the house yet, but physically, emotionally, sexually, etc. she checked out many years ago. She had an A and then asked for D about 3-years ago. She actually asked for a D a couple times in the years prior to that, but I guess I ignored her. Since I have been DBing these last few years, I thought things were actually getting better since we rarely argued and she never mentioned D, but I should have known better as the physical, social, and sexual realationships are practically non-existent. She just kept making excuses, tired, not feeling well, haven't brushed my teeth, haven't showered, not with the kids around, etc. She kept asking for space, so I would give it to her, not touch her, not talk to her, not approach her for sex, let go out or stay in while I watch the kids. This lack of everything had me finally thinking about leaving because I was giving everything and not getting anything in return which is also the time I started posting again. Then just recently, on my birthday no less, she said she is moving out, getting an apartment, and taking the kids. I said you can go, but you are not taking the kids. She said she is not leaving without them. She had this conversation right in front of them, so my Daughter started screaming don't go daddy, so this ended the conversation. The next day I called a DBing coach.
Funny thing it was our 9th Anniversary and my 39th birthday this past week, so I had planned an evening out on Friday as well. Another funny thing is that my W has three sisters (two older and one younger) that are all going through a D. One more funny thing, an old college friend of mine on facebook and a co-worker are all going through the same thing. What is wrong with our country, culture, and world when D seems so easy and simple for so many?
I was surprised that she was even willing to still go out on Friday after threatening to leave me the night before, but since I had already planned it I said I was going out with or without her since I had already arranged for a sitter, made restaurant and hotel reservations. She was actually probably looking forward to an evening out without the kids anyway and the opportunity to talk to me more about her plans. So we had some good food and a glass of wine. We started with small talk, but went into parenting talk. I used the "Relationship Wheel" or the "Velvet Glove" ideas for improvement provided to me by the DBing coach by rating different things from 1-10 and how to improve. For example starting with parenting we said 5 and to get to 6, we need to be more consistant with our daily routines and discipline...we went into specifics but I won't bore you with those. From there somehow we spun off into relationship talk, which actually I was trying to avoid. It started because she was saying how we are not a Team. Which is not 100% true, but with anything and everything we can always work to be even better. She proceeded to give me basically the same lines from 3-years ago. I need space from you. I don't feel anything in my heart for you. I don't love you. I don't want to do anything for you. I lost it a long time ago. I haven't gotten it back and I don't think I ever will. I am miserable. I am unhappy. I hate coming home while you are there. I prefer to stay at work where I am happy, laughing, having a good time. I feel like a different person at work, then at home. I said then why don't you be that person at work at home. She said she can't. That I drain all the energy from her. You exhaust me. You repulse me. I don't want to be around you. I don't want to see you, touch you, hug you, kiss you, nor even have sex with you anymore. I don't trust you. Early in our marriage, I told you everything that I wanted from you and everything not to do and you did exactly the opposite. [For the record, the wrong or mistakes I made were only that I did not apparently love, hug, and cherish her enough or what she expected for married couples; I did not cheat; I did not beat; I just did not listen nor change fast enough]. She said, You didn't listen then and you are not listening now. She continued to say that I have been doing everything right the last few years, but it is just too late. She said it makes her angry to see me changed now and asked me why didn't I change then. I said my only excuse is that I was young, immature, proud, inexperienced in love and relationships [I had only had a couple of serious relationships. She had been married once already and in another relationship that lasted several years. She apparently knew exactly what she wanted, expected, and tried to teach me, so that I wouldn't make the same mistakes. I obviously failed]. She said she will not continue to be in an unhappy loveless sexless marriage for me nor the kids. She wants me to see a counselor on coping with letting her go. Whether it was right or not, I started by quoting Dr Laura, "Love is a choice, not just a feeling." If she loved me once, she could chose to love me again. This made her very angry and she said I wasn't right in the head indicating that we can't control our feelings or make such choices. So for the remainder of the conversations, she would say I don't feel like it and then quickly say, I chose not to want to be with you. She also said she just doesn't trust me, which is why she doesn't want to even open her heart to me. She said she could not understand how she could be so mean to me and me still want to be with her. I had to ask her if she was seeing or had feelings for someone else, or the same one from before, but she insisted that no. I finally said, no matter what I will not quit, I will never give up, I will do everything within my power to hold on to her and not let her go. But I also said I know I can't control her and if she packs her bags and leaves the house I cannot stop her unless she tries to take the kids. Then she tried to bargan with me for her to take one and for me to keep one and then they can see each other on the weekends. I said that was wrong and unacceptable. I said if she wants to leave, then leave, but the kids need to be together and stay home with me. I used the example of her two sisters, one of which all her kids are on drugs and in and out of school and jail all the time, then other screwed up families and kids that we know affected by separated/divorced parents. Of course she got very angry. She said she didn't care about other families. She only cared about how she was feeling. How she wants to be the happy go lucky person she used to be. That she wasn't going to stay for my feelings or for the benefit of the kids. She started saying that speaking to me was useless, once again I was not listening, and how can I not understand that she feels (or choses to feel) nothing for me and never will. That I should just let her go. Why would I want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me. I said that I chose her as my wife. That I may not have listened to her and have made mistakes in the past, but I have been listening the last few years and I have done everything she has asked of me. That I couldn't imagine being with anyone else, nor her with anyone else, and most especially I do not want anyone else raising our children. We eventually changed the subject back to the topic of "Relationship Wheel" as I said whether she choses to stay or go we will always have to take care of the children together, so what are we going to do to improve parenting the children, renovating the house, family recreation plans (I even suggested that I would take the children myself if she wanted to stay back and have some space, but oddly enough she enthusiastically agreed to three separate family vacations over the next year), spiritual plans (we agreed that we would go and take the children to Sunday School and Church--I already do it now, but she agreed to this time--except only today she didn't go again, although I did with the kids), etc. We came up with one or two plans for each of the topics. Almost all were a joint effort, so I walked away from dinner positive.
We went to the hotel, she said to talk, but as soon as we got there she got undressed and got into bed. She said she wanted to watch a movie. We had some small talk. I started a movie. Then I proceeded to attempt to kiss her. She initially was not receptive as usual, but I practically begged (probably not a good thing to do) since it had been so long, but I figured it ain't happening at home, I am not getting it elsewhere, what do I have to lose to try to get some lovin from my wife since we have the opportunity without interuption. She finally actually kissed me back for just a short passionate kiss unlike over the last year where she usually just pushed me away at my every attempt at tongue. I then talked her into sex convincing her that she could use a good orgasim (this was actually suggested by the DBing coach). I also asked her what she thinks or does about sex since we rarely have it but once every couple of months and even then it is always quick and most of the time in the shower. She said she doesn't ever think about it because of being tired all the time, but she does dream about it sometimes. I asked her if she ever pleasures herself and she said no. I asked her again, if I am not pleasing her is someone else. She said no. I asked her what she thought I was doing since she knows that I have always had a huge sexual appetite. She said she didn't know, but then asked me if when I was on business trips if I thought about being with anyone else. I said no (I probably should have said yes), but I did say that I pleasure myself a lot. She said when and where. I said late at night or in the shower. I asked her if she thought about being with someone else. She said no. So anyway, we actually had some great sex (at least as far as I was concerned). In the heat of passion, she asked me why did I let this happen to us? I said I didn't let anything happen. I guess I was young, immature, and incapable of listening, but now and the last few years I am listening, I understand and I have changed for the better forever. It is up to her now. She didn't respond. She came twice and shortly thereafter fell-asleep. Of course, I wanted more and then tried again in the morning, but she turned me down both times. She said in the morning, I told you I don't want to have sex with you. I said you know you want me. You are just afraid to show it. You are just mean to me in order to justify your feelings and protect your heart. She didn't say anything to that. We got into the shower together and I tried again, but she pushed me away. We went to breakfast together and proceeded to talk about the kids and family. We finally went home and took the kids to an amusement park for the afternoon. I know I was feeling and showing happiness all day, but she sort of lapsed into her normal miserable self. I told her, she should feel happy as she just got laid. She laughed and said is that why you are happy. I said of course it is one of the many reason as I felt we had a great evening. Overall it was a better than average weekend for the first time for a long time. Although, all my future attempts at hugs and kisses the rest of the weekend went unresponded to as usual.
In addition, the DBing Coach said to get my Legal Guns loaded in regards to the children before I essentially give her the ultimatum. I didn't have time for that on Friday, so I avoided any ultimatum languague. Basically, the coach said I need to be less predictable, stop being a door mat, hold my head-high, demand respect, etc.
My Questions to anyone out there for their opinions based on experiences is the following:
1) Do I leave, invite her to leave, or say and do nothing? 2) If she does leave, do I allow her to take the children or do I fight to keep them? 3) If I fight to keep them, what grounds do I have that would be supported by the law? 4) While we are under the same roof, since she is always asking for space from me, how much do I give her if any? Do I initiate conversations in passing or not? Do I attempt to hug and or kiss in passing or not? Do I attempt to have sex or not? 5) I assume that having a friend with benefits or something like that it for sex is not the right thing to do, so is pleasing myself frequently okay or not? 6) I am a gift giver, letter and card writer, and even romantic song singer when I want to be for most all occassions. She is not and doesn't seem to care whether I do this for her or not, so should I keep it up or not? 7) Do I call and text her during the day or not? 8) Do I tell her that I love her on a regular basis like I do with the kids or not? 9) How does one actually be less predicatable when there are kids involved that essentially require a daily routine? 10) In DBing we are supposed to avoid relationship talk and conflict, but my W is constantly critical of me, i.e. how I drive, how I discipline and even play with the children, etc. In this situation should I defend myself or just continue to validate?
No matter what, as calm, cool and collected as I sound in this post, I am still very saddened, hurt, frustrated, angry, and disappointed with the thought of losing my wife, which essentially is the loss and break-down of my family. How does one recover? I can't even imagine playing the field again to find another. I have a difficult time even imagining going on in my job/career as we are both in the same career field, so then I think about quitting. I have thoughts of leaving the state to get away and start anew, but then essentially I am either leaving my children or taking them from their mother. I hope it never comes to this, but even her moving out to an apartment whether temporary or permanent will be embarrassing as if I failed.
I know this is long, so thanks to any of you that take the time to read it. I sort of lay it all out kind of like a journal so that I can remember, reflect, and refer back to.
LTL,Here is what I see. You are pursuing her non-stop. She has told you, she needs some space from you, she doesn't want to ML to you and you keep trying and trying. If I tell ANYONE I don't want to ML to them, then I mean it. It would be disrespectful to try. No wonder your W says you don't listen to her!
From my point of view, you need to stop pursing her. It is NOT Working! Yes, you may get a hug now and them but you know what, she still wants to get away. You need to do things differently before you lose her forever!
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
Ok then, I ask again do I continue to do everything she asks/tells me to do?
Do I support her moving out into an apartment and take the kids with her?
What do I do in the meantime and after she leaves?
I have been doing nothing but giving her space for three years and it hasn't been working. We live in a loveless, sexless, tension filled household, with not even hugs, kisses, nor conversation. She said she is miserable, unhappy, and that I am her kriptonite bringing her down. I figured at this point what do I have to lose. I decided enough is enough and I am trying again for conversation, hugs, kisses, and sex. I guess maybe like you said I have lost her forever. All I have is the shell of the person I once fell madly in love with living under the same roof.
She says she needs to miss me, "if you love someone set them free, and if they truly love you they will come back," or something like that. I am just so afraid that if she walks out that door with our without the kids it will be the end...the end of my family, the end of my career, the end of life as I have known it for over 10 years.
The DBing Coach said to stand-up tall; demand respect; stop apologizing for being me (for being a man); find a father advocate lawyer; don't stop trying for conversation, hugs, kisses, and sex, if she turns me down then "act as if" and go out on the town; try to take her to a marriage enrichment program and or MFT for the benefit of the children; be less predictable; stop being the nice guy; and finally that it can't stay like this. The kids are not safe alone with her or even with her around. I believe I failed to mention earlier that she told me that taking care of the kids is not fun to her. She said that she is not and never will be a typical mother. She said she doesn't like to cook, clean, bathe, play, read, etc with the kids like other mothers. It is not fun to her. She is depressed and on ambian and zoloft. I am not sure why she even wants to take them with her. I know she loves them though.
I believe I deserve to be treated better than this. I agree that I've made mistakes in the past. I have not been the perfect husband. I have not always been as sensitive, caring, compassionate, cherishing, etc. as she wanted or expected me to be and I am actually sorry for that, because I truly am a romantic and would do anything for her. I work and pray hard everyday to be a better man, a better person, a better husband, and better father. I wrote her letters, I sang her songs, I gave her gifts, we traveled the world. I never abused her in anyway. I have done nothing wrong. She is a miserable unhappy person and it is not my fault. She doesn't deserve to be with the kids. I am concerned for their well-being. I need her to be the kind of woman she was before when we first met, when we dated, and early in our marriage. She would be a fool to leave me, the man that has put-up with her all these years, the loving cherishing husband and father of our children.
I see a lot of anger in your post. I don't blame you but your anger is not good for YOU.
Words like, 'I did nothing wrong.. She doesn't deserve to be with her kids.' Of course, we all contributed to the breakdown of our M. Every parent deserves to be with their kids unless there is serious abuse going on.
Words like,'I need her to be the kind of woman she was before..' These are wishlists. You NEED her to be a certain way??? That is A LOT OF PRESSURE TO PUT ON SOMEONE!!
Do you see why she is running away from you right now? No one wants to be under that kind of pressure in a loving relationship. Life is hard as it is with work, illness, obligations, kids, schedules. To have your partner 'need to you be a certain way' maybe is too much for your wife. She is trying to tell you that. I know you don't want to hear it but you have to start to ACCEPT things.
I know you don't want to let go, but you do have to accept some truths right now. It doesn't mean you give up or necessarily agree with everything she is doing. That is not what I mean at all. But AT THIS POINT, she is decided to leave. She has started to withdraw big time. Chasing after her and demanding physical affection is NOT going to work!! Demanding your wife to ML to you WILL not make her want to come back to you. Ask yourself, are you asking her to ML to you so that you will have some short-term loving and affection from her or do you think it will really turn her around and make her want to stay?? Truthfully!
You have come to a point where DEMANDING your husbandly hugs and kisses is useless for your M. You have to face it. Now, you must decide, do you want to save your M, or do you just want to get some before she leaves once and for all. Because, to me, from my point of view, you are doing a very good job of the later.
I doubt when DB coach said to stand up to her and act like a man, she meant for you to pester her into s*x. I really really doubt it. What she probably meant is to stand your ground verbally as in 'I understand how you could feel this way, but I am against D' and then leave it at that. Don't let her throw you out of your own home, don't let her take your kids away without visitation, that sort of thing. Not to throw yourself on her!!
I understand that men need physical affection to feel loved. I totally understand but please analyze what you are doing, it is not working so please stop. Not forcing yourself on her doesn't equal to 'being a nice guy', it's just common courtesy not to force her into doing something she is definitely not comfortable with. Again and again you have described on this BB that she has not felt like it, told her she was not in the mood and you still went ahead. THAT is not listening.
You think she respects you when you force affection from her? No way. She doesn't respect you. She wants to get away. So you need to detach, man.
Stop pursuing now. She is telling you she needs to get away. There is no way you can stop her from leaving. The 180 here is say that you understand her feelings and LET HER LEAVE. Yes, you have taking a huge chance here. She may not come back. You have to ACCEPT that. But if you continue to chase her down, I will guarantee you she WILL NOT come back. So your odds are to let her leave now in hopes that she will leave the door open and in future consider a reconciliation. Do you understand me now?
If not, I will be happy to clarify.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
LTL, I really sympathise with your sitch here. I was in a very similar, loveless, sexless, hugless, etcless M. I too didn't know what I was doing wrong and I kept trying things to bring the spark back. That's actually how I discovered MWD. I found her book 'The Sex Starved Marriage' on Amazon and ordered it to try and improve our sex lives. Unfortunately for my W the problems went much deeper than that and it wasn't something a quick orgasm could fix.
Since we were married, I stopped having my own life so much and my W and S became my whole life. I never realised at the time how much pressure this was putting on my W. Not only was she a young mother, she also had my happiness and wellbeing to be responsible for. This went on for about a year until she finally told me that she's fallen out of love with me. I think if I'm honest it was the respect which went first. She couldn't respect a man who wasn't responsible for his own happiness. I used to think marriage was about two people completing each other. I now see that it's about two happy, complete people complimenting each other. Nobody should be 100% responsible for your emotional state. That's why I believe you should let go. Give your W a chance to find herself and more importantly, give you the chance to find your own happiness and to grow as an individual.
My W walked out in January this year and I really worked hard to detatch. It was incredibly hard at first but I think the separation made it easier. We were very amicable when it came to visitation of our son and we continue to be flexible. At first, I still pursued. I called and texted her to see how she was doing and what she was up to. This was the wrong thing to do. It never improved anything at all. She was completely awkward around me still and I was falling deeper in to misery. Then, I spoke to a DB coach who really helped me to GAL and also on how to act around my W. I stopped the calling and I stopped the texting. When I went to pick up Wee Man, I basically got him and left without trying to make small talk with my W. I went as dark as I possibly could while still sharing parenting duties. It wasn't long before she started asking me what I was up to though. It was as if the roles had been reversed and she couldn't stand not knowing what was going on in my life. Well, since I was doing well at GAL, I told her that I was enjoying myself but kept it all brief. I still don't ask much about what she's up to. Sometimes she tells me anyway which is fine. I no longer plead, beg, or talk about our R. I have a life now that I'm enjoying but I've still not given up on my M.
My DB coach told me that I have to become friends with my W again before anything else can happen. That's what I'm working on now and although it's a slow process, I am seeing progress every now and again. We've shared meals together and she's started to confide in me again (something she never did for the last year). No, my M still isn't fixed but I'm not ready to give up either. Like you, I was in limbo for a long time. Mine was only a year compared to your 3 though. Things never really improved in that time. It's taken separation to start seeing improvements. It isn't always a bad thing. Just bear that in mind.
Kev
Me: 32, Wife: 22 Son: 2 Married: 2 years Separated: January 5th 2009
Sometimes you have to become lost before you can find yourself.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
You will eventually find out she is in an Affair, also she doesn't want you and you keep beggin, give up on sex with her it isn't going to happen
1. Man up face that fact that she has made her choice, don't try to talk compromise, beg or plead let her walk!
2. Get away from the situation legally, Do whatever it takes to do this get a Lawyer NOW!!!!!
3. Close all joint accounts, shut off all monetary support
4. Do don't talk about the marriage at all if she tries to bring it up tell her you be more than willing to talk to her once her relationship with the other man has come to an end, but until then to you "it's like we aren't married anymore" that is how she is viewing the situation
5. Take this time to evaluate what you did wrong in this marriage & try to figure out what you didn't give her (this is a tough one you have to be ready to give yourself a long hard look at you from her point of view) IF YOU CAN'T DO THIS THEN TO RECONCILE WILL BE IMPOSSIABLE
6. Do not support her emotionally, she may call to try to talk about her actions or feel the need to explain. Simply tell her "we live in a free will society & she has free will to do whatever it is she wants to do" then tell her goodbye and hang-up
7. When talking about her treat her as if she is a past relationship, always use past phrases "she was my wife" "she was the love of my life" "she used to live here" remember anybody who sees her will tell her what is going on in your life & how you are doing, & deep down she will want to know, if mutual friends start to tell you what is going on in her life tell them you do not want to hear it (this will make its way back to her & she will get confrontational, don't get into it with her you will not win)
8. DO NOT CALL HER OR INSITATE CONTACT EVEN IF THE KIDS ARE HURT.. YOU MUST NOW BE MOMMIE & DADDY, if you have to arrange to meet to drop off the kids do it at your in-laws or your parents house someone you trust with the kids & someone who would be neutral about the situation! You must show her you don't want or need her. & if a woman can leave & leave her children this is a woman who is selfish and at this point in her life she don't really care about them any way
9. Everything you have ever put on hold or decided not to do because of her, now is the time to do it ! i.e...rearrange the furniture in the home, try golfing, get back to running or something you used to do that you used to enjoy
10. Box up everything that belongs to her or that has her picture. DO THIS NEATLY, DO NOT BREAK ANYTHING then place it in secure storage. If you look at it and it reminds you of her it must go
11. Reconnect with family & old friends, if you feel the need to share tell your family & friends only do not talk to her family & her friends make absolutely no contact, if they initiate it be polite & disconnect the conversation quickly leaving them with the impression that this is the best thing their daughter, sister, friend has ever done for you. If they ask questions tell them to talk to her. You cannot win these people over they will pick her side so no matter what & she has all ready thrown you under the bus to them anyway!
12. Gather all the evidence you can hire a private investigator, you may get divorced, you want as much proof as possible (NEVER EVER TRY TO CONFRONT HER WITH WHAT YOU HAVE OR TALK TO HER ABOUT WHAT SHE IS DOING!)
13. Change your look grow facial hair or shave your hair, be completely different than you look before, get a haircut or grow it long, buy some new clothing get a womans' opinion (not your mom or wife)Buy cologne your wife would hate but you like!
14. Every week try something new or different, take a cooking class, or salsa lessons
15. Do something online, facebook, twitter, poker or chess club do not invite or tell her friends or family
16. Learn to play the guitar or piano
17. Volunteer to help the less fortunate, food bank, homeless shelter, be a "big brother" to a young boy
18. Read, listen & watch anything you can find on Alison Armstrong
Most the WAW say what forces them to wake up is the fact they are faced with what they are about to lose or have lost
Before reconciliation happens she has to be open to it at this time she is not
Last edited by alexjadams; 04/29/0903:44 AM.
WAW 32 ME 38 D11, S9 & D2 Together 10/96 Married 4/2000 Bomb 4/2006 PA1 9/2006 PA2 11/2006 I now know I want out, With my Kids!!!
Told the lawyer that I still love my W, that I am willing and wanting to do whatever it takes to keep my marriage and ultimately my entire family together, and that I have been DBing for over three years. But I also told him that my W has threatened D in the past, and more recently threatened taking the kids, moving out and getting an apartment. I explained that I believed that I was the better, more involved, and responsible parent in raising our children. That my W is a miserable unhappy person that takes anti-depression medication during the day and prescription medication to sleep at night. I felt that my children would not be safe with her. I wanted to know what my options were to keep the kids. He said it is very difficult to petition for 100% custody, but easily we could fight and win 50%. I presume this is better than nothing. He said the retainer is $4,500, a private mediator would cost another couple of thousands, and that it would probably take about 6 months for the Big D to be final. Does this sound about right?
After hearing my entire story, he said a separation would not be effective, that divorce is the way to go, and that I should do the preventive strke before she does to secure the custody of the kids before she walks out the door and then I have to go fight for them after the fact. I said I don't think I will ever be the one to initiate as I expect that if it is ever to happen she would have to be the one. We are still under the same roof. I still believe she and the collective retention of my entire family is worth fighting for. He actually went into MFT mode and said that then I should start living an independent life separate from her. In other words the same as going Dark and GAL. Start doing and planning things as if she already moved out. Change my focus away from her and refocus on the kids and myself. Don't do things she asks me to do, but do those things that I would be doing anyway if she wasn't here. So in other words reenforcing many of the same things in DBing, that even most have commented on these boards, as well as stated by my coach. I believe I am already doing a lot of this, just not to the extreme that he and all of you posting to me suggest.
I spoke with the DB coach today, and she was very pleased with my efforts this past weekend, in sharp contrast to many of the comments I have received in previous posts on this board. After telling her word for word the story just like I posted it here, she was very happy and pleased to hear that I continued on with the dinner and hotel as planned on Friday evening, espcially since my W agreed to go. The fact that I discussed the Relationship Wheel whereas my W agreed to participate in improving our parenting skills, planning vacations together, plannning to go to church together with the kids, planning renovations of the house, etc. In other words my W, who is always physically pushing me away, agreed to do things together, so this was another example or effort of team work where possibly she is wanting, but not admintting to opening her heart back up to me and the idea of us as a family. I am happy and excited that my DB coach was very praiseworthy and proud of my efforts. I went on to tell her about the rest of the evening, all the conversation, the hotel, and even having sex. She said it was all good efforts on my part. She said she is not sure that I should go dark yet, especially if my W still has not moved out and she is still willing to do things together. As many have said, she said as well, stop being predictable.
This week after Monday-thru today, I tried going dark. Esentially I did not speak to my W at all unless it was in passing about work or kids. I did not attempt to hug, nor kiss nor ML with her all week. I didn't initiate, since she pushed back the last time I tried on Sunday. She of course did not initiate. She did email me proposed dates to plan for or vacations over the next few months. I unpredictablly decided to go out for a drink at 1000 pm at night last night after everyone went to bed. I came home at midnight and didn't even go to bed until 1 am. As soon as I entered the bedroom, she immediately asked me where I had been. I was surprised she was awake at that hour, but I said I was awake so I went out with some friends from work that were already out. She didn't respond and nothing more was said, but I thought it interesting as did the coach that it appears as if she was up thinking and waiting for me or possibly she just woke up and noticed me gone. In other words, for her to ask, she was obviously interested and or concerned that I was gone, which is apparently a good thing if she supposedly doesn't care about me. After talking to the coach today, she said once again don't go dark yet. Avoid relationship talk, do not invite her to leave yet (although if she brings it up, tell her a few things to make her think about what she is doing, but ultimately let her know it is okay to go if that is in fact what she thinks will make her happy because obviously I want her to be happy), continue to work on the relationship wheel, invite/include her in plans, and even attempt a hug, kiss, playful touch, and even sex if the opportunity arises once in a while. Just once again, don't do it when she may expect it. Be unpredicatable.
It was funny that although we hardly spoke this week Monday thru Thursday as I was trying to give her the most space that I can give based of her constant requests, and the fact that I went out last night, I expected that she might come home late or go out late tonight herself. Instead, I came home early whereas she actually was running later than normal especially for a Friday. I was about to walk out the door with the kids to take them to dinner when I decided to text her to tell her. She sent back asking me to wait for her. She walked into the house seeming happy asking about my day, we all went out to eat, we had good conversation about work, kids, and vacation planning again. We actually looked at old pictures of the kids on my phone, told a couple of funny stories and laughed. So is she having a good time with me or no? I attempted to steel way a quick feel and kiss and she actually was receptive for that moment. We later picked up some movies and games from blockbuster, went home, I played games with the kids, then we watched the movie. She said come and get her for the movie, but when I did she was aleady asleep. I thought about leaving the kids to the movie and initiate ML, but thinking about being predicatable and possibly not listening to her I did not. I wonder if I should of. I always think that I get turned down so much why not try because possibly one of those tries may eventually be a yes. But at the same time, I don't want to be predictable, I don't want to seem needy or demanding, or not listening, since she had previously asked for space. I feel like I should just wait for her to initiate, but I fear that may never happen. I am thinking about planning some spontaneous early dinner with friends tomorrow evening, so as not to be predictable. Once again, if she goes fine, if she doesn't find. At least I have plans. As I sit here an type this at 1100 pm at night, I can't help but think about her sexy body layinng in bed all alone. I just want to go up there and ravious her body. Should I? Or should I just lforget about here, let it/her go and refocus on something else?
Give more space or make more effort towards physically contact? That is my daily dilema.
Tried being less predictable this week as suggested by DB Coach.
Planned dinner with friends over the weekend while wife was working and invited her to come along after work. She declined. Went out annyway, but friends cancelled. Wife tired and just went to bed.
Spent day with kids having fun. In a good mood. Wife came home from work in good mood. Stole a kiss and a squeeze on the tush. Appeared receptive. Attempted ML in the middle of the night while kids in bed in their own beds for a change. She flat out turned me down saying no. Got up, got dressed, and went out...tried to make it seem like I was going out clubbing or to a bar, but just went driving around and got something to eat. Came home in the morning and she did not even mention it.
Proceeded to give her space the rest of the weekend and week by not speaking, touching, etc.
Left to go out of town for work. Attempted another kiss and hug. She didn't respond and turned her head away. While gone attempted to call home to speak to kids. Wife didn't even answer the phone but handed it over to kids. Therefore have not spoken to her all week.
Son having trouble in school. Attempted finding a counselor for him to speak with. Requested in an email text for wife to set it up. Still waiting for results.
Have been feeling a lot of empty sad hurtful feelings in my heart and guts. Feel alone. Am concerned that W must be having an affair. Wish she would just leave at this point.
