I have been lurking around the MLC board for weeks and just now ready to post. My link to my sitch is in my signature and I would love for some of you MLC vets to have a read through ...
I guess first of all, I am looking for some confirmation that this is indeed what I'm dealing with - I'm learning lots from the archives and threads about how all MLCs have basic commonalities but can manifest a little differently - and from where I sit it seems pretty text book. He seems to be both in Replay and the early part of Depression which kind of confuses me.
ILYBNILWY - Jan 21 I did all the text book WRONG things that first night - crying, pleading, begging, etc. I started to 'get it' over the next few days. H feels like he's been managed and controlled for our entire lives and he has lost himself in the process and it's my fault (never mind he didn't want to take care of money or any of that stuff). He eventually revealed that he almost left 6 years ago when our D6 was an infant but he decided to stay and do 'whatever it took' to make it work. He never said anything about the level of dissatistaction he was feeling and proceeded to do what he thought I wanted - change himself and give up pieces of himself to a point where he says he no longer recognizes himself. I offer to give him time and space that he says he needs in-house, we continue to have sex and I try to boost his self esteem with I love you's and emails etc. Find out later this is 'pursuing' and pressure. In late Feb he moves out of our bed to the couch and then in early March decides to spend a few nights a week in his brothers basement. We're successfully hiding it all from the kids, generally getting along and no fighting. He insists he is not in love with me anymore, and does not antipate the return of those feelings. More detailed info in my sitch...
"I think I found a place" - late March 2010 I lose it because I didn't even know he was looking, thought he was going to stay at his brothers 1/2 of the time and on the couch the other half. I book a DB coaching session with Cheryl for the next day. She advises me to validate his needs and if he brings it up again to agree with what he needs to do, anything else will be seen as an attempt to control. She says it's ok to let him know I have some valid fears re $ and that I'm not ready to talk to the kids but acknowledge that the decision is his. I do this when he brings it up March 27th and then let it go. On March 28th he lets me know he's decided to not take it and he's going to go to his sisters instead, we're calling it a 'trial but in-house separation'. We're not talking to the kids yet either. I also notice he has stopped wearing his wedding ring and hanging out with old high school friends (a couple of whom are suddenly single) claiming he misses them and the fun-loving guy he used to be (... before I disapproved of almost everything about him ... yada yada yada).
OW/EA discovered April 24, 2010 April 23, 2010 was the one year anniversary of my 4 yr old neices death and we attended the memorial as a family. Got a sitter that night and went back to my parents to hang with my siblings and be together. Had a few drinks and a few laughs and just generally enjoyed being around each other as a family during a hard time. Walked home, and as soon as the sitter left he was on me like crazy. We had fantastic sex and he stayed in the bed (first time in 2 mos). The next day while he's napping I move his sweater and drop his phone and when I pick it up his outgoing text box is still up on the screen and I see a message from him that says "I miss you, I love you ... can't wait to see you tonight." I was so shocked I didn't even go back through them to check anything. I just called the number from my own cell to confirm who I was talking to and sure enough old highschool friend (who I was also friendly with prior to all this and who left her own marriage in Nov). Maintain my cool, take the highroad and go talk to him instead of tearing her a new one! FYI - this controlled, 'responding instead of reacting' person is a total 180 for me and it's taken months of counselling and introspection to get me here, but this new me is here to stay! Have a very calm but long conversation with H about what I found (he's angry about me seeing his phone but I stay cool and don't take the bait). I validate that I even understand the needs he wasn't getting met in our R and I see how this could happen. I tell him that I am most upset at his insistance on needing time and space only to find out that he hasn't been spending it on self reflection but investing in another relationship. I am upset and feel used because of the sex we've been having and although I knew we were doing it without him being able to say "I love you" I did not know there was another person. He insists their R never got past words and kissing and I believe him (when I ask why he says "because that would be wrong" and I have to use all my will power not to laugh, as if everything he's done so far has been 'right'!!!) to be continued ...
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
... on April 28th he had a conversation with OW (apparently initiated by her, but with his agreement) about needing space to sort himself out (seems to me like she initiated the talk but he pursued at least at first). He insists that they can be just friends because they've always been friends and she's part of the social group he hangs around with (I clarified that they USED to be friends not ALWAYS been friends as he hasn't seen any of this crowd in almost 20 years).
... on April 29th we had a conversation that very much resembled what I think would look like a 'rock bottom' ... he was very emotional and talked a lot about what he sees when he looks in the mirror and how it is OVER with OW because the relationship with her made him a liar and a cheat (still maintains can be friends). That this was supposed to be an attempt to find himself but now he feels worse than ever. He talked about not being able to let stuff go, and how he was f'd up before he met me. He compared our R to a set of scales and says that everytime we hit a troubled spot the negative side got heavier and the positive side started to evaporate. Talked about no self esteem etc.
... on May 7th H went to a party at a friends place (where OW would be attending - was crashing on friends couch and golfing the next day) but reassured me before he left that I had nothing to worry about that their R was over. Also called me the next morning on the way to golf to touch base and tell me that things were awkward at the party but nothing inappropriate and I had nothing to worry about (very out of character for him). Over that weekend he talks about wanting to be honest and not a liar anymore. He says he's lied for a long time, even about little things, to avoid my reaction to stuff I wouldn't like.
... May 8th I go to my Dad's 60th b'day party and come home with a buzz on. We make out a bit and stop ourselves even though neither really wants to. He sleeps on the couch.
... May 9th (Mothers Day) I wake up when he crawls into beside me and snuggles in. We make out a bit and stop ourselves again (still no real kissing - that stopped around the time he started having feelings for OW). He helps the kids bring me breakfast and then once they are distracted we don't stop ourselves and have sex. Afterwards we both feel bad (him because he can't/won't say I love you - and he assumes me for the same reason - take me 2 days to tell him I was afraid he was thinking about her instead of me, to which he is floored and says No WAY!) I check his phone later in the day - not even sure why - and discover a call to OW - ask him about it and he gets mad 'cause I snooped. He says that at the party on Friday night she was upset because her ex wouldn't give her their daughter on mother's day and he was checking to see if she was ok. I tell him that I am a Mom and understand her being upset, but if they are just friends why hide phone calls? He figured I wouldn't understand. That afternoon I find a Healing Separatin agreement on line and when I go out with guy pal that night I give it to him to read. When I got home that eve we read it together and agree to all of it. It includes emotional and sexual monogamy, no dating, talking about whether or not to continue a sexual relationship, physically separating vs. in house separation and the agreement that we're pushing pause on major decisions to take a time out to work on ourselves before we finalize any major decisons etc. We agree to take it to our MC on the 13th to discuss finer points.
... May 10th he has an appt with his C (typical well meaning but R harming C) and I expect that he will come home to tell me we are formally separating. I decide to be ready and not to fight him on it. I'm ready to agree to sharing the house for the sake of the kids (for the short term) and have figured out my $ and stuff.
... see MC on May 13th and go through agreement, discussion around definition of emotional monogamy (MC also tells him that friendship with OW is high risk and that ending private friendship with her does not mean he has to cut off entire social group and says he should talk about it with his IC where I'm not present and he can speak freely and be very honest with himself and the C, says he is being honest). Decide to talk to the kids on the weekend.
... on May 14th found an email addy I didn't know about and called him on his cell to ask (he was working). He got defensive and said he's had it for a while to use when registering for stuff so he does't have to use his work addy. I said then when you get home can you log in and show me? (remember that at this point he has not recommitted to us, only to working on himself) and he says that won't be necessary (one of his biggest beefs is that he feels controlled and like he's had no privacy or decision making power in his entire adult life). I'm upset and head to McD's with D6 and her cousin to keep busy when phone rings and it's H. He says that he doesn't like the way the conversation went and wants to apologize for his part in it. He didn't want to stew in it all afternoon and he's sorry. He tells me he used the email addy to reply to housing ads when he was looking. H would never had made this call before - WAY out of character.
Hey guys ... nice to see you here Puppy! Totally lost track of time and had to go ... and the suspense never killed anyone right! And really, three epic posts to capture most of the 9 pages in my sitch thread aint' bad!!! Thanks Jack - I know lots don't like long posts but I figure the more info the better!
... continued ...
... on May 15th we were set to talk to the kids and had discussed what Daddy was going to say to them. We ended up spending longer at D6's school (building the new playground) than anticipated, and since I was going out with friends and wouldn't be around to help deal with any potential aftermath we decided to delay talking to them until Sunday afternoon when H returned from golfing. We then planned to take them to a park or something and spend the afternoon as a family. I'm going to copy and paste in how that played out since I typed it in my newcomers thread already:
Originally Posted By: PEImom_of_3
H went golfing Sunday morning with a plan to talk to the kids when he returned. Once he got back, we ate lunch and he disappeared into our (my?) room. He was just laying on the bed looking pensive but I didn't bite, instead I went to have a shower. H was still there when I got out so I got dressed (caught him peeking!) and then sat on the edge of bed. He made small talk and then said that he'd been thinking about what to say to the kids all morning. *Note* this is where I would usually slip in some comment about not needing to tell them blah, blah, blah ... so my 180: I said nothing!* We chatted for a bit about what to say and keeping it light and casual and he looked down (Good! Means he's feeling stuff sometimes - unlike the alien I've been married to for 4 mos!) and then D6 and S4 came into the room. H says he wants to talk to them and they hop up on the bed.
H: Things are going to change a bit around here. D6: Change how? H: Daddy has been having a hard time lately and hasn't been taking care of himself and he needs some grown up alone time to do that. (looks at me as if he wants me to say something ... ) ME: You're doing fine... H: So, because we both love you guys sooooo much, we're going to take turns being here at the house and taking care of you. We're going to have family time too. (both kids are nodding - really this isn't a huge departure for them, we've both come and gone a lot with extra work and social committments etc). Do you guys have questions? S4: How come we have to take swimming lessons? (..... LMAO ... I almost fell off the bed! Was perfect really ... took away tension and gave us a family laugh!) ME: Because we live on an Island (smiling). S4: Oh. H: Any other questions guys? S4: I have a question about taking turns. H: What is it buddy? S4: When we take turns drawing pictures can we each do one? ... anyway ... the kids ran off and played and then I laid back on the bed and started to cry (to my credit I didn't cry while they were there - huge for me!). H laid back on one elbow beside me and then leaned in over me and gave me a bear hug - not one of those "I'm hugging you because I feel guilty hugs" but more of a "I get it, this sucks, I'm sorry you're hurting" hug. He said that he really cares about me and hates to see me hurting and wishes he could just make it stop. I got my tears under control, he asked if I was OK and I said "yeah, actually I am, and I will be ... part of me is relieved to have that over and know that they are ok, better than ok really". I then said "I'm really glad you are finally making yourself a priority and doing what you need to do. You are a great daddy." He said "I hope so" and I said, "I know so. And taking care of you is the best way to keep being a great daddy." He was still on one elbow beside me and hugged me again, then backed off a little bit, looked me in the eye, and kissed me. Tentatively, then backed off and looked me in the eye again and kissed me again. I kissed him back, but also tentatively - following his lead - and didn't let myself cling to it or push for more. I took what he offered. After a couple of minutes he pushed up on his elbows over me and whispered "I still don't know where this is going to go" to which I replied "I know. Me neither.". Then another bear hug. A few minutes later he says "were you surprised I kissed you?" and I said "kinda, but I'm learning to live in the moment and sometimes you have to do what feels right without looking too far ahead or back" ... then I changed the subject and didn't dwell on it (*another 180 for me!).
We took the kids to a park, then to McD's for supper, a quick stop at my parents for a 'big boy' bed for S2 and then home to do the usual Sunday night routine ... baths, snacks and bedtime. H and I had discussed watching a movie and rubbing out some of our sore back and shoulder muscles so we started with the massages and then realized it was getting late. He said he didn't know if he was going to stay up for a movie and I said I was going to head to bed, that I wanted to get an early start on the morning (*another 180 - I would usually use it as an excuse to spend more time with him etc). I said a cheery 'good night' and tucked myself in with HGTV as I heard him head to the basement. A couple of minutes later my cell chirped to indicate a text message so I grabbed my phone and it was H! 'Good night' it said (so backwards - a couple of weeks ago that would have been me sending him messages to try to maintain contact!) ... I texted back 'yes it was ... sweet dreams'. That started an exchange back and forth for 20 or so minutes which started to be full of sexual inuendo so I played along a bit, then said we should get some sleep and signed off with another 'good night'. I wanted to go down there, knew he would welcome it if I initiated but decided to stand my ground instead. Smiled myself to sleep
This morning he came in to wake me (I'd slept through my alarm) and he sat on the edge of the bed. We chatted and then he said that he half expected a visit last night to which I replied "Yeah, I know. But I don't want to be a part of anything that makes you feel bad ... and those stairs run both ways you know". He wants to make decisions by golly he's going to have to make them!
... May 17 was my first night away and it was rough. I should have had something planned to do but I didn't and I spent too much time being angry about not being able to go home. Tuesday was better as I had plans and then Wed was my first night alone with them, but since it was S5's b'day H came home for supper with us. I was with them on Thurs night and spent Fri night at my Moms. Saturday I got groceries for the family b'day party on Sunday and landed at the house around 2pm to drop them off before we went to his b'day party with daycare friends (H had been sending short texts or making quick calls all week - I had been really careful to not make initial contact - and during one conversation invited me to travel to the b'day party together). Saturday was great (H left after the party), and he called from the golf course on Sunday to say it was a slow round and he'd be along to help get ready for the party as soon as he could (out of character). He seemed really uncomfortable at the party (expected that though as all my extended family was there too) and although I was looking forward to watching LOST together, his grouching and complaining about his stomach started to get on my nerves (turns out he spent Sat night at a friends place having a few drinks - then I find out that this friend and her boyfriend are amicably parting ways due to school and job geographic realities - and all I can think of is 'doesn't he have any friends, especially female friends, in stable relationships!!!'). I decided to not let his mood ruin mine and I enjoyed the finale anyway.
... May 24 (yesterday) was a holiday and H golfed in the am (MY idea a couple of weeks ago - total 180 there - two rounds in one weekend!) and once he got home we set up the kids slippy slider in the front yard for them to play on. We were watching them when H says to me 'dare you!' and - another total 180 - I go for it, fully dressed! Laughed our butts off, H ended up doing it too, and I even went a couple of times. We left the kids to play and went in to get dried off, and well, you can guess where we ended up after peeling off soaking wet clothes ... a person can only handle so much you know! Afterwards he seemed like he was going to say something all relationship-y (I know that's not a word) so I kept it light, cracked a joke and got up and went to check on the kids. He did make some comment about 'good for PEI' for letting loose and having fun. Later in the afternoon, he said something like 'I had no intention of doing that' to which I said 'me neither, no worries, we lived in the moment' or something like that. Around supper time I went to town and then to my mom's for the night. This evening as I was leaving my day-job I realized I didn't have any shoes to wear to my business meeting so I called H to let him know I was going to drop by to pick up a pair and he invited me to come right then and stay for supper and see the kids, so I said I couldn't stay long as I had plans but I appreciated the offer and would love a quick visit. So I did.
Ok ... there it is ... in all it's long-winded glory
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
So, how am I doing? Is he in Replay or Depression or both? What do y'all think?
I printed several of the archived threads today and have started reading through them ...
My laptop is about to die, so I'm signing off ... can't wait to hear from everyone - I've been getting great advice over in Newcomers but I thought it would be good to get in here for some specific MLC info too!
Peace, PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready. I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This is my new and improved list of links.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Remember that in the stages of MLC it does NOT go 1,2,3,4,5,6 but can get all mixed up and repeat itself and have more than one stage at once. Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
As far as what stage he is in. If the OW is still present he is in Replay.
But lets not worry about him. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. GAL. Detach. Use the time that your H has given you as a gift to start to work on yourself.
Hi OP! I actually saw your welcome post on someone else's thread and have started printing and reading all of the resources ... so thanks!
I am GAL, detachment is coming along and I'm really working 180s and acting AS IF (not that I don't have low moments or hard days, they're just getting easier to spot coming and last a lot less time now!). I have done a huge amount of work on myself, and, as I said on the Feeding the White Dog thread, I am in a place where I am actually grateful for the growth opportunity - I am NOT the same person I was when this all started. My IC says she is astounded at my ability to assimilate information and the changes and growth I've experienced, but I know that I am nowhere near done ... in fact, I now know that I will never be near done! I am a work in progress
Peace, PEI
Holding onto anger to punish someone else, is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes ~ 25yearsmlc
Welcome to the boards. You will meet a lot of great people here.
And we have fun sometimes too as you can see...
You will get GREAT advice here. I know it seems important that you figure out whether H is in MLC and what stage but I would encourage you not to get too caught up in a label.
The process here is what is important and that doesn't change with your H being MLC or not MLC because it is all about YOU.
Read the stuff OP left for you and keep posting here and people will find you ...
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
Thanks Jack - I know lots don't like long posts but I figure the more info the better!