My H has a history of bailing (or threatening to bail) on our R. He broke up with me about 4-5 times in the 4 years we dated, prior to us moving in together.
When our first child (D16) was almost 5, I got the ILYB speech. He moved out for 3 weeks, then came home. Left again after a month and again came back after a few weeks. On his 3rd attempt to bomb me, I packed up all his clothing while he was at work and kicked him out for 6 months. This time he wanted back right away but I said IC and then MC, or no way. He agreed and moved back in after 6 months of MC.
A year later we were planning our wedding, but a month before during a fight, he again dropped the bomb, claiming I was the wrong person for him and he didn't love me enough to marry me. He took it back 3 days later and said it was all said in anger. Begged me not to cancel the wedding.
Fast forward 9 years later, I got the bomb in April (life is too short to be unhappy, our M is hopeless, etc), he took it back the next day. Repeat 3 times. I got the 4th bomb again on our Anniversary on August 31. Like clockwork, he is again wanting to R talk (this time I am not participating) and he's back to reading Marriage and Relationship books - SSM and 5LL's. He's in our bedroom right now doing just that...
His Issues (According to our constant R talks lately; initiated by him, usually via text)
*I don't respect him or admire him *I judge him *I forgot our Anniversary one year (or gave him lame cards/gifts) *Not enough sex *Not enough in common (he likes sports, I don't) *Not compatible *I'm a hermit, he's more social *He didn't feel loved or emotionally connected
My Issues:
*Trust (due to constant bombing) *His angry outbursts *Stonewalling after disagreements (he won't speak to me for days/weeks sometimes) *Poor conflict resolution skills (on both our parts) *Not having my back (In-law issues) *His lack of emotional strength and maturity *Drinks too much at home *Socializing to him = drinking too much *Impatient with our kids (at times) *I didn't feel loved or emotionally connected
I wonder if you can ask your "semi-WAS on the seesaw 4forever", if HE could go dark for awhile?
Sheesh...enough already. Sorry but I had to ask...
Believe me, I've thought of it myself as well. However, I'm not sure how he could go "dark" without involving our children. At this point, the kids (S7 and D16) are none the wiser. D16 even sent me a Happy Anniversary text when we were in our room a little too long on our Anniversary, so she obviously had no clue Mommy was getting bombed.
I've protected them by keeping my emotions in check, and also because H takes back (sort of) the bomb the next day (or within the next couple days), so they still sees us being affectionate with each other, cuddling on the couch, hugging in the kitchen, etc.
Do you have at least an internal timeline of how long you can do this endurance test? I think it makes it easier to know that at some point you will not be in limbo no matter what they do.
(It helped me at least. I had a d in high school and knew when she was done 18-24 months later, I would be done too, one way or the other.)
Yes, originally my plan was 15 months, which is when my D16 will graduate from HS. Although at this point, I'm not sure I can last that long with him cycling so rapidly. It's really starting to take it's toll on me physcially. It's like going back to day ONE and feeling all those emotions again. Then having some hope, then it being taken away. Each time, he seems a little more "off" so I'm wondering if he's just slowly building up the courage? Anyway, it's like dying slowly and painfully so I'm not sure I can make it to 15 months anymore.
I actually wonder if YOU making a move would get him out of his fog. Not saying it will, but letting him have power he isn't able to wield in a mature
way, isn't working too well for you or the kids I'd imagine. They need predictability and reliability (and you need a sane partner?)...
I wrote him a letter a couple weeks ago, telling him if I could go back, I would do many things differently, but that I couldn't. And that if he truly thought our M was hopeless and wanted out, then I accepted his decision. I also told him that I needed a strong man and a M built on trust, forgiveness and growth. He said he didn't accept my letter, and went right back to reading relationship books and texting me his issues, and asking to discuss mine.
On September 1st (the day after bomb #4), he again texted me about how he agreed that our old M wasn't good and asked if all the things on my list were dealbreakers. I responded by saying his constant vacillation was slowly killing me and could he please just move out already and be done with it. I said I would be fine eventually. He responded by saying that he bought the men's Relationship ebook, "Hold Onto Your Nuts" and was now reading that, and that it was horrible to think we both felt we weren't loved. So I've given him a clear out twice now and he's still see-sawing like a mad man.
He's also asked to have yet another R talk twice in the past two days since the Anniversary bomb, and I've declined so I'm guessing he can sense this bomb drop is not going to go as well as his last 3. That's the only way I can think to take back some power this time, without actually throwing him out. (I saw an L back in April and he did say I could change the locks and ask him to leave if he kept threatening me with D). Again, I'm focused on protecting the kids as long as I can.
That said, the minute he tells the kids (if he ever does) because I've also suggested we tell them when I thought he was serious - he of course decided not to. But if he does, I'm pretty certain, I'm done as this seems to be a character issue as this point (although he has very valid complaints about our M and I do think we BOTH need to make changes). However, I will NOT put our kids through what he's put me through.
Seriously though, what if you took some of your power back?
If you have tried that (i confess being new to your thread) how'd it go?
Yes, my thread is a little long-winded. I still have not mastered the art of summarizing. Hopefully, I've filled you in on the important details though.
Anyway, thanks 25. I look forward to your responses/ideas/suggestions. Anything.
I should also mention that his mom died (at 59) two years ago, and he recently admitted that he has not dealt with it very well. (His excessive drinking and angry outbursts began in the two years since her death.) He's attended two counseling sessions since this admission, and has expressed being very angry to the point of rage over her death, as well as rage over feeling rejected by me.
Admittedly, I was feeling very disconnected due to his drinking and anger and felt unsafe at times, so his feelings of rejection are very valid. (He's never been physically violent though.) Therefore, I do have compassion for him now that he has shared some of his issues. Although, I'm not crazy about he's been handling it all.
He broke down very dramatically last week while watching a TV movie in which the mother died. He was so distraught, he couldn't breathe or talk, and was hyperventilating... so I'm starting to wonder if he's having some sort of crisis (MLC?) because he's definitely not rational at this point.
Also, probably an important fact that I left out of my summary - last year I was considering being a WAW myself. I purchased a book called "Contemplating Divorce" and filled out the questionnaires in the book.
H was snooping one day, unbeknownst to me, and found the book (I thought I hid it well). He read my answers to the questions and they were definitely not kind. He threw this all in my face during a fight (about 6 months later) but apparently had been seething about his discovery for a long time.
I never acted on my WAW feelings because I started reading R books, researching D online, and was leaning towards staying in the M when H dropped the bomb in April.
H said during our conversation the other night that he feels like I'm just going to leave him someday anyway.
Again, this is probably important and it's also why I'm putting up with his vacillation... for now. Because I've been there. Although, I did keep my vacillation to myself and didn't go all drama island about my whole decision process. Though, H did recall that once during a fight, I did say that I was going to leave him when the kids graduated from HS. Not my finest moment.
I had a nice day with the kids. My parents came over earlier for a visit so that was nice too. (They have no idea what's going on, nor do they know what my H is really like, and I know they're going to be horribly disappointed when they out the truth.)
H and I have not spoken to each other or been in the same room since the Anniversary bomb. Our only communication has been via text, but I've ignored all his R related texts, as well as his texts asking to talk about us. Honestly, at this point, I'm not interested in anymore of his R talks, nor am I interested in going over my LIST of what I need in a M one more time because he'll just bomb me again anyway. I'm tired of being duped into believing he's "trying" or that he cares what I want. (I have responded to the texts that involve the kids OR the ones asking if I need anything because I don't want to be completely rude).
Anyway, I'm not sure if it's good DB'ing to be avoiding him since he's usually affectionate and seeks me out after a bomb drop, but I'm feeling very angry right now. I feel like I might snap and say something I will regret, so despite the fact that it feels ridiculous and immature, I'm avoiding.
E, I don't know if what you're doing is a bad thing. I think he needs some space to figure himself out. You need the space to calm your anxiety. You especially needed to do something to change the dynamic.
As I mentioned on my thread to you, detaching has been the BEST thing I've done for myself and the kids. I don't know when it finally *clicked*, but it did, and my life has been better because of it. I think it's been a combo of things...separating, establishing/enforcing some boundaries with H, GAL'ing, etc. I've also been more effective at DB'ing since emotionally detaching. I've learned that when you take the emotion out of a situation (or at least tame the emotions considerably), you are able to make more logical decisions. This has been very tough for me as I'm a VERY emotional and sensitive person, but I feel like I'm doing a great job so far!
In my case, it's definitely been easier to detach because we are separated. I know you are not in favor of being separated, and believe me, I wasn't either! I fought it kicking and screaming (which duh, just drove my H farther away), and I HATED it at first. I was so afraid of what it was going to do to my kids, and I was afraid once my H had physical space he'd NEVER want to come back to me. I admit now that it was definitely needed. The kids are doing great (much better since H and I are working together so well), and H and I are getting along and wanting to spend more time together as a family. I know that the likelihood of divorce is still there and that we may never live as a married couple again, but in the meantime, things are going well. I've become very used to being alone (and liking it!). I'm a very social person, but I've always enjoyed my alone time; when I was single, I always preferred living without a roommate, and now I'm remembering why! So, all in all, separation has been good. It's making him miss me and our life together as a family, and it's allowing me and him some time to focus on what changes must be made in order to reconcile, if that is what we choose to do. If in the end, we divorce but can effectively co-parent together, then that's a lot better than what happens in many divorces.
So, if separation isn't the answer for you, you must find some way to emotionally detach from him while living under the same roof. I'm not sure what the answer is for you since he's typically wanting to talk the R to death. You've lived with the ups and downs and ins and outs for MUCH longer than me, and you deserve better than that. You need to set some boundaries NOW with him. Maybe you need the help of a therapist in deciding what boundaries can be enforced and how you can try to detach while enforcing them.
I know it's hard when no one knows what is going on in your life. I lived quietly about our problems for 2 years before everything came out. Funny thing is, my mother and sisters suspected all along things weren't as rosy as we put out there. My family has been very forgiving of my H (although he may have run out of 2nd chances with them at this point). I give my family the very bare bones of information on what is going on, as I don't think it's a good idea to let them know everything. I, like you, was so afraid of how the truth was going to upset them, but my family has been a wonderful support system for the kids and me when times are tough. You need at least one person in your life you can talk to about things. I know the boards are extremely helpful, too.
The point is, status quo isn't working for you, E. I've been there and I hear myself in your posts. Constantly walking on eggshells, waiting for the next bomb, it stinks! It wears you down emotionally, physically and mentally. You deserve more happiness than that. It's time to change your game plan.
E, I don't know if what you're doing is a bad thing. I think he needs some space to figure himself out. You need the space to calm your anxiety. You especially needed to do something to change the dynamic.
I think you're right, jb. It just felt so counterintuitive and foolish, especially since one of his complaints was that he felt ignored and unloved. However, the distance between us now is of his own doing so I have to stop worrying about what he's thinking.
Besides, after I posted last night, he texted me to say that he didn't know if I thought he was ignoring me or not, but that he wanted me to know that he was avoiding me only because he needed space to educate himself.
So I guess he's NOT thinking that I am avoiding him but that he's avoiding me. Fine by me because this time I'm the one that needs some space.
Originally Posted By: LilaGirl
There is definitely a co-addicted quality to all this - it's a tremendous book.
I don't know how you can stand all the back and forth. I'm exhausted too; I hear ya on that!
I will read the book next (I've got two on the go at the moment). However, I've looked into co-dependency online and did a few of those quizzes on the subject and while I may have co-dependent tendencies, I'm not sure I'm technically co-dependent.
One of my H's complaints was that I haven't been there for him in the last couple years. He said he's felt abandoned and unloved (and his complaints are valid). Yes, now I'm hanging on and trying to fix things, but I was pretty darn close to being a WAW myself, and I have paid little attention to him or our R for some time. It was at the urgency of a friend that I did some reading and started owning my part in the demise of our M. I can't change him but I can start taking a long hard look at my own "stuff" which is what I'm trying to do.
However, I suppose I may have overlooked some of his characteristics or lied to myself about what kind of man he was...I'm not sure. I'm still searching.
As far as separation goes, if he pushes for it, I will NOT resist. I've made this clear to him. When pulled this drama, 11 years ago, he was out by my doing on the third bomb. I was pretty done at that point and did not fear separation at all. (I was a bit dramatic about it though and packed up all his clothing while he was at work).
However, admittedly I'm hesitant to push for it this time around. I'm not worried about me -- I've seen an L and I will be just fine financially. Emotionally, that might take more time but I will get there. It's D16 that concerns me. She recently overcame an eating disorder and was in therapy to deal with that, as well as the death of her Grandmother. She also struggles with depression (again this all happened after the death of my MIL). D16 while very bright (honor role, gifted program), is a very sensitive kid and spends far too much time with me (instead of her friends) which worries me. I'm afraid another significant loss in her life will push her over the edge. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for our kids, H would be out by now. I might even be DONE.
As for living with this drama, it's been almost 5 months. Yes, he did it 11 years ago (and while we were dating) but he was in his teens and late 20's so I think I chalked it up to youth and immaturity. However, they were no bombs for almost 9 years of marriage.
Things started to fall apart for us after his mother died. (I think that was probably the trigger). Yes, I had issues with him but I didn't seriously consider leaving until he started drinking too much and acting "angry" all the time. I never connected it to the death of him mother until recently because he never expressed any grief. I did think that was strange that he seemed to just "get over it", considering he was very close to her. Actually, I think that's part of the problem. Their relationship was unhealthy.
E, I am really hesitant to post something about your sitch cause something you posted recently really struck a nerve (not a bad one). So take my post with the understanding that I'm prolly not biased when it comes to this... Just sayin.
First off time and space is good. It helps sift through the BS of what is your truth, his truth, anger, fear, etc. That crap just takes time. Last month..all I could see was all the bad stuff w did to me. This month as football season hits, I'm missing all the good stuff. It is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to go through this but IMO it's absolutely necessary in order for you to figure out how to move forward (not move on). It's a necessity for growth.
That being said. There is one thing that really sticks out to me in regards to your m. You BOTH feel unloved and emotionally disconnected.
Do you know what he does that makes you feel that way and vice versa?
I remember when w told me she wanted a D. I knew it was coming so we did it through our MC who is an imago therapist (I heart imago therapy, it's not unlike DBing). She was crying and she said to me. "I would get mad at you for taking advice from friends and hanging out w/ friends. I figured if you had them, you wouldn't need me.. and then what was I good for"
That broke my heart. At first, I beat myself up for it. How could I have reassured her that what she "felt" was not true?? But I realized that I did everything I could there. Those were her demons, and I couldn't give her the self worth that she needed.
She also told me that she felt unloved because our m was always focused on me. I did all the talking at the dining room table, I always made her feel guilty when she had a ton of work. I also looked at that. And she was right. So I started working on it.
Anytime my w mentioned something, I truly looked into it. If it was her demon, I did my best to reassure her. If it was my own, I confronted it.
As you know.. I'm still getting a D but you know what my w still tells me... that she appreciated how loving I was to her even though she was dropping the D bomb. And I think she truly believes it.
I still continue to look at ways my w felt unloved by me.. and I still work on them. When she is confronted by her demon, I try to reassure her. Unfortunately with limited contact mixed with a ton of feelings, this is hard to do but I told her that I loved her and I do. It's easy to love someone in the good times, it becomes much more difficult when they hurt us or when we have to look in the mirror to see how we hurt them.
So my question to you is.. what are you going to do to address this issue?
Are you willing to spend the time to look? Not just into YOUR feelings, but HIS as well?
Are you able to own up to your part and allow him to own up to his part?
IMHO - if you do, you may find some answers to your list above as well as find some 180s to change the dynamic in your r.
That's my .02
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
