Our story

[kolja]

Well, like most of you, I never thought I would be here. But I'm glad a place like this exists.

My wife and I have only known each other for about 2 1/2 years. We've been married 16 months. It moved fast - at the time I had suggested we go a little slower, but this is what she wanted. And to be honest I knew she was the woman I wanted to be with so I went along with her timing - and still don't regret it. It's the second marriage for us both.

Initially after getting married things were good between us. She seemed increasingly unhappy at work - but then, lots of people are. In retrospect, stressed with my job myself, I was not as supportive as I could have been. But when, early last December, she asked if she could quit, I readily agreed in order for her to be happy. And for a few weeks she was - grateful to me in private, and telling everyone what a great husband she had for allowing her not to work.

But soon enough she was unhappy again - only with no job to blame, I was evidently the reason. There were other factors of course. Differing attitudes toward alcohol have had a huge impact - even though we both drank when we dated, as we settled into a more domestic life things got different. I come from a family where mom has a glass or two of wine almost every night; dad has a beer or two, OR a mixed drink or two, most nights. No one ever got out of hand, nothing bad ever happened. This was how I was brought up. But, after we'd been married 5 months, my wife said that although she had tried, she just couldn't get comfortable with it.

She comes from a different background - her birth father left when she was an infant, and as I recall hearing, was a bad drunk. Her mother had some dysfunctional relationships while she was growing up. There was a grandfather who was a bad, and abusive drunk, and her first husband had severe issues with all sorts of substance abuse, was physically abusive, and eventually got another woman pregnant while they were still married. Perhaps due in large part to this sort of experience, what for me was normal, casual enjoyment of a beer or two on a day to day basis (and yes, occasionally a few more) was to her a sign of a problem. After she told me this in January I scaled way back, almost never drinking at home and not going out nearly as much as I used to. But she was already starting to withdraw and withhold affection.

One Friday afternoon in February I suggested we go out that night. She said to go ahead, she wasn't feeling well. I said if that was the case, we could stay in and rent a movie. That's when she said she just didn't want to hang around me. It was a tough pill to swallow, and I was already frustrated by the way things were starting to go, so I went out to dinner myself. No, it wasn't a wicked bender. I had a few beers with dinner and a couple more at another joint - 4-6 over about 5 hours. And got pulled over on the way home.

She was of course not pleased but there was no talk of leaving or divorcing.

In March, she came down to Las Vegas when I was there for work. We had a good time, and were even intimate for the first time since December. But when she looked at our account (joint), she was convinced I had spent too much the REST of the time I was there, and that this was further sign of a problem (after my arrest, I was screened and found to have no sign of a pattern of abuse). I was also to find out MUCH later (9 months later) that an intimate conversation before she made the trip to join me had actually crossed a comfort line for her that she never told me about.

At some point in the late winter and early spring our sporadic sleeping in separate beds (as we tried to find a mattress we BOTH liked - and she doesnt sleep well anyway...) became permanent. After getting back from this trip, she ranted about the money (it didn't put us in extremis or anything, but in retrospect she was justified - I DID spend too much on that trip) and said she had briefly thought about leaving. Note that she never mentioned any other problems other than spending too much on a trip and thinking I had a drinking problem. Although in retrospect, all this time, I was still bringing stress home with me from work and was probably not as emotionally available as I should have especially given all the challenges I seemed to be doing a really good job of inflicting.

Instead of leaving she consented to go to counseling. We had two couples' sessions. In one of them (as well as in a conversation at home), she mentioned she thought she had some depression issues. She was referred to an individual counselor as well - and to my knowledge made 2 visits there as well. I DID learn a few of the other things that had been bothering her that I could start to work on, at least.

In late May I was sent to Alaska to help run an exercise. We seemed to keep in touch alright, though I was to find out she thought I STILL spent too much going out to eat there, even though I thought I had scaled it back. I was home for all of two days (during which I was criticized for my Alaska spending) before being sent to Italy for a deployment related to the non-war in Libya that only rarely made the news. We kept in touch fairly well, with only one disagreement coming over a new lawn mower we bought that I didn't think we needed.

When I got home (having missed our first anniversary), I asked if she had kept up with her individual counseling and she said she had only gone a couple times. I asked if she wanted to resume couples counseling and, despite the fact the first visit at least made what I thought was a noticeable improvement, she said she didn't think it had made any difference.

She was more withdrawn. With her closest friends or her family she still seemed OK, smiling laughing and all that, but at home she slept in late, stayed up late, and seemed to spend almost all her time just watching TV. She often had migraines. She DID take up horse riding and I was hopeful this would help her happiness. Concerned that the counseling had not helped her depression and that it might be more serious, I once asked if in any point when talking to doctors about her sleep problems she had asked about depression, and she reacted angrily, suggesting that I get counseling myself since I was the one who was all fouled up (she didn't say 'fouled' exactly).

Meanwhile, over the summer, her spending went kind of wild. Shopping, mainly. Eating out with friends. Spending the same amount of money every month that she had gotten so angry at me over when I was in Vegas.

In what I've subsequently learned was a mistake, my response to her distance and occasional hostility was to try to be more affectionate. She even TOLD me that was pushing her away, but it made no sense to me (still intellectually doesn't make a lot of sense to me yet), and was so ingrained - having always been under the impression that you should still be able to kiss your wife goodnight and tell her you love her even if the two of you are mad at each other - that it was hard to turn off.

In late October she made a girls trip to Vegas. She didn't communicate much. In pictures her friend posted, she was out in the clubs without a ring. She posed for pictures with male show dancers, standing closer than she's stood to me for months, smiling like I USED to get to see. Pictures with random dudes at the hotel pool. I don't THINK any physical cheating actually happened but it was tough to see. Especially since she was spending money I was earning.

When she came home, I told her how I felt her doing all this shopping, traveling, partying and publicizing it - posting it for everyone to see when everyone knows she doesn't work - without so much as a 'thanks!' for earning the money to make it all possible was a little disrespectful. We had a bit of a blow out when she came home over the sleeping arrangements, as I had grown tired of my banishment to the guest bedroom.

In late November and early this month I was in Las Vegas again for work. After wishing me a happy birthday on the 30th and telling me we'd celebrate when I got home, on the 5th she emailed to say she wanted a divorce, would be out at the end of the month and gave a brief explanation. The first thing she mentioned was the DUI (which was resolved months ago as reckless driving) and that she still thought drinking was a problem. She then unearthed our intimate discussion from March and suggested that I may not know exactly what I want. She said she hadn't told her family just yet because of the holidays and her sister's upcoming wedding, but that she wanted it to move fast. She said she wouldn't take me to the cleaners, but when I inquired as to how much support she thought she would want, she initially said $1600 a month for a year or $20,000. We talked about that for quite a while - and the demand sounded so outlandish that I consulted an attorney just to wise up on the laws here (at least I'm not THAT exposed to risk if she goes all the way through with this).

When I came home last week, she headed out Saturday, saying she was doing some errands and then was going to stay with a friend. I had my first coaching session with Chuck Monday morning, learned a bit about the last resort technique (the copy of DB I ordered hasn't shown up yet - too bad I couldn't find it as an e-book). He was a great help and I already look forward to the next one. At his suggestion, I put the question of where I would go for the holidays and her sisters wedding in her hands. Turns out I won't be around for either - but I AM going to go visit my folks and sister for Christmas, and am looking forward to that. I've done well at minimizing contact, letting her initiate it, but being polite when she does. She's tried to restart the spousal maintenance argument via email (she prefers to communicate with email or text message), but without passion, argument, or accusations I relayed what my attorney told me - without telling her I'd actually seen an attorney, and suggested she might really want to consult someone to see just how realistic and reasonable her expectations were.

Well, I've rambled a bit. I'm sure the new-person-post-reviewer has their work cut out for them. I've already perused the success stories thread, which was great for refreshing me after the wrenching attorney consultation. I look forward to hearing what you all have to say - I have a few near term questions to throw out to whoever listens and has a couple cents to throw in (at least till I can ask Chuck again). And I definitely look forward to getting my hands on the book!

[brenalim]

You've come to the right place! We are all here to support you!

Are you wanting to save your marriage or are you okay with getting a divorce?

Sounds to me like she is suffering from depression. Depression is tricky... First thing is first... you can't force someone to get help. She has to come to that conclusion on her own. She may have to hit rock bottom before she does. Second thing... Depression is a very selfish disease. She's only going to care about herself and what you are doing that is making her suffer so much. Keep that in mind.

Please don't be insulted, but it does sound like you have a drinking problem. It may have been the way you were raised, or even if you are never out of control, it doesn't mean it's not a problem. 2+ alcoholic drinks a DAY is not the best idea. I'm glad that you recognized that it made her uncomfortable and decided to back off, but I hope that you can do that for yourself. Jobs are stressful but there are better ways to deal with stress than drinking.

You won't be much help to your W if you are not taking care of yourself. Exercise for the stress or talk to your boss about what you can do to make your job more enjoyable.

Counseling is important both as a couple and as individuals. I suggest you find an IC to help support you while you're trying to support your depressed wife.

Good luck! Keep us posted!

[kolja]

Thanks, brenalim.

I very much want to save our marriage, and only hope I'm not too late to start doing it PROPERLY instead of the very ineffectual, in fact counterproductive, ways in which I was. I wish I had turned to sites like this one sooner so I wouldn't have pushed her away by trying to be MORE affectionate.

I've changed my drinking habits - both for her AND for me. I no longer keep any in the house, I don't go out as much and when I do don't have nearly as much (and don't even think about driving - for the amount I had to spend on legal fees it's silly not to take a cab; expensive lesson). The advantages for ME have been the amount of money I've saved, the weight I've lost and the amount of OTHER things I get to do with the time.

The good news on the job front is that in September I transferred to a different unit. The job I have no is much less stressful and while I enjoyed all the people in my old unit, the environment here is a much better place for me. It's a HAPPY place to come work and I enjoy being here.

I've always been active physically; swimming 3x a week, lifting 2-3 times a week with some casual running thrown in and bicycling to work even before my drivers license difficulties. It's certainly helped me handle everything, and I think there really is something to be said for what endorphins do for one's mood. I'm actually thinking of doing a half marathon they have here where I live in the spring - I think having that as a personal challenge and goal, independent from the marriage, will be good for me and of course have some health benefit as well. I also make sure that, in addition to the time I spend reading up on improving myself and saving my marriage, I take time out for othere interests and hobbies to clear my mind and refresh myself.

I've gone back to see the counselor who had seen us as a couple, who agreed to see me as an individual. Since she saw us a couple times together I value her perspective and it's been helpful to talk to her. I have an appointment to see her next week to talk over these latest developments.

I'm also educating myself about depression. A friend who has battled through bipolar disorder (and had gone so far to separate before reconciling) recommended "What To Do When Someone You Love is Depressed" so I'm reading that too. I know it will certainly make things difficult but I'm as devoted to my wife (even if I didn't always demonstrate it in a way that she recognized) and as committed to her and the marriage as I was on our wedding day.

[kolja]

Yesterday actually turned out to be a pretty good one for ME (didn't talk to the wife after leaving for work in the morning, and she was gone when I got back).

It was TECHNICALLY a day off from work, but I've got a lot of roles I have to take over and I got a little behind in assuming them with the 2 week trip I was sent on. Still nowhere near as stressful as before, especially once I get up to speed. Since not many folks were around I got a LOT done and feel pretty good about it - and there were a couple other folks in, playing catch up too, so it's not like I was all by my lonesome.

I called the state licensing department to make sure that when my suspension was up and I went in to reinstate I wouldn't have any nasty surprises about a requirement I didn't know about. I was very pleased to find out that once my insurance company files the SR-22 paperwork, all I'll need is to pay the fines and show my military ID (in my state, if you're on active duty, your license never expires) and that's it - no tests or anything like that. Which is good because with 20 years of bad habits I feel like the driving test would be a sketchy experience

Then I went on to call the insurance company, more than a little nervous that they'd drop me. Not only did they not drop me, I don't even have to change my policy - I was already carrying enough coverage to satisfy the requirements and all that. My premium will go up a whopping $2 a month.

I'm VERY relieved that this is all wrapping up so it can stay in the past where it belongs. And since it played such a big part in our marriage problems, it's that much MORE relieving to be leaving it behind me. Who knows, it might even help my wife finally get past it - but of course that's up to here. Either way, its a great thing for me.

To top off my Friday when I got home, my copy of DB had arrived. I read almost half of it last night, underlining and taking notes along the way. It's empowering, enlightening and comforting so far. I'll probably finish the rest of it today.

Today, Saturday, is my wife's sister's bridal shower, and my wife is of course the maid of honor. As I was making myself breakfast I wondered if I should wish her well. There hadn't been any communication between us since Friday morning, when she came back to the house again while I was getting ready to leave for work (she was short when I said hello - probably because I'm not inclined to underwrite her walking away - but said 'you too' when I wished her a good day upon leaving). I wondered whether or not it would be too 'pursuing.' But I went ahead and sent a short TM telling her "Hey I just wanted to say that I hope the shower goes well and you have fun, I know you've worked really hard on it." Almost immediately, she replied 'thanks I appreciate that." I'm glad now that I sent it - it seems to have been a positive interaction and, since I left it at that and have moved on to the rest of my day, I don't THINK it was too pursuing.

[gunny]

Hello kolja,
Thank you for posting on my thread. Your sitch is far from hopeless, but it will take work. If you havent already, take the time to read as many threads on here as possible, there is a great deal of knowledge and hard won experience here that will be indispensable. Keep your ears and mind open, and you will do well. Good luck!

[brenalim]

How is it going Kolja? Have you gotten your hands on the book yet?

From you last post... it sound like you are doing all the right things thus far. You should be proud of yourself. Change is never easy.

Your wife is very lucky to have you. Don't forget that!

Keep us posted on new happenings!

[kolja]

Gunny-
Yours is one of many that I follow! (I was actually trained by a couple of Gunnys back in the day...)

Brenalim- the book was in my mailbox when i got home Friday night. I read it (and underlined, and took notes) in about 24 hours, including sleeping in a little on Saturday, doing laundry and dishes, and a few other things around the house.

[Some Day]

Welcome kolja. I have benefitted immensely from Chuck's coaching as well. That, along as my interaction here with other people in the same sitch have saved my sanity on countless days and have given me the strenght to continue down this DB patch. I wish you the best.

[Some Day]

sorry for the typos! Type too fast!

[kolja]

Can't remember if I posted this over the weekend, but on Saturday I debated whether or not to wish my wife well with her sister's bridal shower. I finally decided to go ahead and do it, saying "Hey, I hope the shower goes well and that you have a good time, I know you've worked really hard at it." She replied "Thanks, I appreciate it." It was our only communication all weekend but I feel pretty decent about it. Meanwhile I finihsed "Divorce Busting."

Yesterday (Monday), she contacted me out of the blue to see if I was at work. I said I was, and she said OK. I'm not TOO sure what all that was about, other than she probably wanted to swing by without having to worry about running into me. That was it, though, as I kept up with not-pursuing.

This morning, I had another session over the phone with Chuck. He seems to think I'm in on the right track, in a decent place, which is good to hear coming from someone with his experience and perspective. Once I got to work, I coincidentally enough had a text message from the wife. She asked when I was headed cross-state to visit my folks and sister, and also asked if I was going to get a lawyer or if I thought we could get this done without one.

I told her my travel plans, then said I had HOPED we could proceed without lawyers (though the truth is we're pretty far apart on what would be fair and reasonable in terms of spousal maintenance - and I of course still hope it won't ACTUALLY come to that anyway). I also answered her questions about my travel plans.

All she said was she agreed about hoping we could do without lawyers, and then DROPPED the subject entirely, going on to say that my visit home would be short but she was glad I would be able to see my family. I said the visit would be short because I would be able to get my license back on the 27th and wanted to be back for that, plus I had a lot going on (but all generally good) at work. She said she was glad about the license AND work, and I went on to tell her that having the insurance company file the liability paperwork the state requires is only increasing the premium by $2 a month - we both agreed that was great news.

Considering the role my alcohol-scented legal-scrape played in our problems I feel like it's a pretty big milestone. I feel good about letting her know about it, and doing so without any kind of "see, things are getting better, why don't you stick around?" chicanery. All in all it seemed like a positive interaction.

I also find it interesting that for as sure she says she is about her decision, she only brought it up once last week, and today was the first time since Thursday she mentioned it. She SAYS she wants it to move fast, but doesn't APPEAR to be doing much about it. She says she plans to have all her stuff out of the house by the end of the month, but aside from initially packing a bag for her friend's house, there hasn't been much progress in her personal property migrating out of our house. Unless of course she's just planning on rolling up with a U-Haul some day and spending a couple days loading it up... But in the mean time, her laptop is still sitting on the living room coffee table. While I'm certainly not TRYING to play mind-reader, it IS an interesting thing to notice - and even Chuck said it was a POTENTIALLY positive sign.

But right now I'm still focusing on me. The time alone, and much-needed-jolt, coupled with the books I've read and threads I've read here have helped me do some introspection. Aside from the big reasons she mentioned in her email a couple weeks ago, I know I often came off in a condesceding and disrespectful way. It was hard for me to grasp at the time, because the patterns were so ingrained I didn't even really notice them. But, in having to be conscious of how I react to this new situation I'm in, I've had the opportunity to look at how I relate not just to her but many other people around me - and I can see how people could get that impression. I'm learning that a conversation with someone isn't ALWAYS an invitation to share my opinion on something (TV shows and music for example, where my wife and I have some differing tastes), and even my opinion IS solicited, there's more delicate ways to put it that don't make it sound, however unintentionally, that I'm judging the other person - no matter who it is.

Sorry if anyhting here is duplicated - lots of reading, thinking, and talking things over lately and I'm honestly not sure what I've already written and is waiting in the queue! Thanks for looking and offering input, though...