One month down, zero casualties

[Raine]

1st - [url=www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2354190]Completely heartbroken by husband's MLC[/url]
2nd - Rinse, repeat, replay
3rd - Here we go loopty loo. Here we go loopty li.
4th - Crazy little thing called MLC
5th - Back home, for all the wrong reasons

I did it. I survived a whole month with H back in the house. No arguments, no relationship talk, no pursuit, not much of anything. But our friendship is growing a lot. H is making huge improvements as a father. He is still very much a teenager most times. Still two bags packed in the master closet. His car is locked at all times with his keys on him. Lots of space, and yet a lot of more time together too. We just aren't joined at the hip like we were pre-BD. I feel very comfortable around him, and I sense he feels the same about me. He does feel safe.

Catching up from the last thread:

AJ, I think my H has become more self centered the last few years. He was never this extreme. I do think he would do just about anything for me right now, but I would have to ask. It is very interesting to me that he does talk about me so much and the only people he will tell that we are separated (or whatever it is we are) is those he wants to hook up with. All these single guy friends he has, none of them know we've been separated. There have been times recently when people have asked me about one of my projects, and he will jump in and tell them all about it.

This whole things has really changed me. I don't have the same kind of feelings or thoughts anymore of, "oh wow that guy is really good looking," or fantasy thoughts. I have a really hard time with that--and I'm kind of upset by that too. It's not fair that I can have innocent thoughts without feeling sick about it on another level. Before everything was innocent and fun, and I would have no problem talking about it with H or anyone. Now it's those feelings and thoughts are practically sacred and I only want to have them in a fully committed relationship. I still can't believe I've been cheated on. That kind of thing happens to other people. It would never happen to me.

T2 - I'm having a hard time as well keeping my convo in check. Too many things are feeling normal and comfortable. He is also bringing up intimate things in the past between us, and I have a really hard time with that. Those are the times I have a hard time keeping it light and just joking back with him, and not starting to cry.

Like I said to AJ, I do see the NPD tendencies being there, and they reached an all time high, but they are weaker now, and have continued to dim down this month. You're right, there never was a guarantee, but I sure thought I was an exception to that rule. I feel like my innocents has been ripped from me, and it makes me sad.

I do see the "acting upon desires before it is too late" with H. This too has been something he has said for a very long, but before it was a joke. Too much truth in jokes.

I do think that my H struggles with the idea of me being able to forgive him too, and perhaps because of the self loathing, he doesn't want me to either. I'm realizing I can't be in a relationship without full disclosure. It's just not going to work after going through all of this. I am okay to accept that full disclosure may be a long time in the future, but I just feel like it will always be there, haunting me if it's not out in the open and laid to rest.

snodderly, he is a complete teenager. His room is a disaster. He keeps the master areas alright, but his room has stuff all over the place. It's not just a pile of clothes, there are odds and ends clothes all over the room. He stays up until all hours and sleeps until noon. He has times where he is a more grown up and helpful and times he is back to teenager and oblivious. "Lots of time to bake"...ugh! Well, at least he is in the oven right...near the oven? He's in the house where the oven is...right?

I'm letting him talk. Some things are hard, like when he starts asking questions about "us" and our past. I feel like he is fishing, and me saying positive things at that moment is total pursuing on my part. Listening I can do. Tap dancing around a question about intimacy in the past has caught me off guard.

I don't see him leaving either. He is very comfortable and safe. He does not talk about moving out, and does talk about future plans together.


Okay I'm going to pass out. I will get caught up with the rest of you amazing people tomorrow.

[job]

Raine,
As I have advised T2 and rH, this is the hardest part of the journey when they return home and continue their journey in mlc. It takes a lot of time for them to grow up. Keep in mind, that it took quite a while for them to go into mlc and it will take that much and probably a bit more for them to reverse the action and return to being mature individuals.

Yes, your h is definitely in the oven and it appears that he's still waffling from being a teenager and a man. The room says it all. Sounds like a dorm room. LOL! He's going to keep things under lock and key for a while and whatever you do, don't touch his stuff, i.e., attempt to clean up. He needs to feel like it's safe to leave things scattered all over the place. When he does begin the actual settling down and feels he is safe, the bags will be unpacked and put away. For now, they remain the way they are just in case he has to run.

You and your h started out as friends and it appears that's where you are now...friends. Keep dropping the ego kibbles and he will continue to eat them up. You are doing a good job. Keep your expectations at zero at all times and you will need to purchase a few shovels for the patience digging.

Hang in there! I think you are doing great!

[RosaLinda]

You are doing so well Raine, amazingly well. I'm glad to hear you and your H are becoming friends again, and comfortable around each other. 

I get what you mean about "having a hard time as well keeping my convo in check." My H has such long periods of appearing to be his old normal self. You put it perfectly: "Too many things are feeling normal and comfortable" I have to keep reminding myself to do as you do, and just let hm talk, and reply to what he says. Too much initiating of conversation on my part causes him to shut down, and he's more apt to walk away than to reply. 

Snodderly, your advice to Raine was so helpful to me too. Thanks. 

How is the baby doing with the heat?

[nero]

oh man raine -

do you ever describe my H & my feelings & my life now - it's scary when i read a post that generally fits my sitch so much - .

I still can't believe I've been cheated on. That kind of thing happens to other people. It would never happen to me.

like you- I can't believe he's a cheater & this is my life (now).

I think my H has become more self centered the last few years. He was never this extreme. I do think he would do just about anything for me right now, but I would have to ask.

sooo me too - what is up with this self-absorption?

Those are the times I have a hard time keeping it light and just joking back with him, and not starting to cry.

i am busting a gut keeping it lite too - (how can he NOT KNOW HOW HURTFUL (almost everything) is- it's insane to not know every word cuts sometimes- YET maybe that's the INSANITY part of it all- their brains have (temporarily hopefully) lost some of the filters??? (makes the case for type of insanity)

You're right, there never was a guarantee, but I sure thought I was an exception to that rule. I feel like my innocents has been ripped from me, and it makes me sad.

oh man- did you just say that? what else- me too with vengence -

I do see the "acting upon desires before it is too late" with H. This too has been something he has said for a very long, but before it was a joke. Too much truth in jokes.

i have trouble with this one- my h also- BUT who says we all get "to have it all". which he thinks is true - he alone is "entitled" & deserving of happiness of any sort (everyone else in universe - apparently- not so much). it's soooo immature i can hardly swallow it all & not go bonkers.

I am okay to accept that full disclosure may be a long time in the future, but I just feel like it will always be there, haunting me if it's not out in the open and laid to rest.

i need some "bottom line" on that all too. why i need to know & hear it? idk- it's less painful to just be blind - but for some reason i need to know & put a period on it. really KNOW what it was/is - if possible.

you're sounding like you have the wisdom & patience of a saint in what you're accomplishing.


i have trouble conversing when things seem "normal" too - and i can't be normal. maybe i got sloppy in speech (i think this is true) - we lost patience speakng to each other.

i am trying to tidy up my communicatin skills - a good thing.

He has times where he is a more grown up and helpful and times he is back to teenager and oblivious.

he never wanted to put any time into his friends - just me - now he is enjoying all the friendships he/we could have been all those years (i always urged it) but seems to think he can only have "one friend" at a time- (not me btw)

it's so like kids playing - two are great - add another one- trouble & competition.

he has his "own house" (your h's room) - in FL and can't change anything (just like your h's "room" ) . has become all superficially "neat"- guards his space - freakily "tidy" - but doesn't actually clean anything (it's kinda gross) - but needs to have office-like organization.

somehow he can't adjust to living with (me) (he says or anyone) all the time!?? wtf - loss of office - BUT he chose it-

as i'm saying this - he's a child that maybe wants a bitchie mom bossng him around - i'm not much of a nagger - i'm not his mom - i think i like a "strong man" - he always WAS -


i WISH my h would talk - i'm trying hard to engage him and get him talking- he just STOPPED dead a bunch of years ago (REALLY talking) he was/is sharing his day to day life & thoughts with ow- she's sooooo exciting & mysterious (not) - oh well huh?

he said once i didn't listen- that may well be fair- idk- he's a lawyer - he grills me constantly- hard to know when i get to hear him - or ask him (he hates questions? & answering - he's said that forever!!) it's such a fine line & thin path to thread my way thru - anyway- like you in life- trying.

i get that stupid one week in four- and then , well, what you've just said- it's amazingly me.

it's slow progress- i am sad all the time and wondering if i can re-connect with this new man- if old one is "still in there" or dead -

just HAD to respond to this amazing post of yours...

xxo good luck- you're doin great it sounds like to me. hoping for best for you.

[TSquared2]

"Lots of time to bake"...ugh! Well, at least he is in the oven right...near the oven? He's in the house where the oven is...right? smile

Ya made me spew my coffee this morning when I read that...you are hilarious!

Not much else to say atm...just that if you are scientifically inclined whatsoever, I highly recommend a labcoat and safety goggles for observing and studying the in-house mlc'er, they can be unpredictable and messy...

T^2

[uRworthy]

Raine, cant you just microwave him already? LOL!

I highly recommend a labcoat and safety goggles for observing and studying the in-house mlc'er, they can be unpredictable and messy...

Ya think, T? That is a nice way to put it.

[AJM]

Raine, as I was reading this, I couldn't help but think you were looking for some positive signs he is trying to make his way back to you. I submit that's an expectation and one that will likely not be met at this time. You're still too close to see the forest but you see lots of trees, right?

He is a piece of work, no doubt. But he's trying to figure it out. That's about all you can say about him at this point. There is nothing else that you can or should read in all of that. Later you'll be able to put the pieces together, but for now it's a single data point in a sea of them.

It is kind of humorous how they act though, yeah? The messy room, the cologne, the crazy tempers... ah the teenage years.



Be patient, Raine.


Peace,
AJ

[Raine]

snodderly, it so true about the leaving his stuff as is. S2 got into H's Father's Day cards and I also noticed a bottle of vitamins that were out, so I put the cards and the vitamins on a high book shelf. He asked me that night if I had moved stuff in his room lol. I said yes and told him why. So apparently there is some organized chaos going on. He is joking around a lot more. Lots of boy humor and he loves that I laugh at him. He had some pretty good ones actually.

Hey Linda you made it to the end of the line! I think you are doing great too! The baby is doing fine with the heat. We stay in and keep it cool and head outside after dinner. I love summer nights. No summer loving, but I'll take playing in the park. And no that is not the next best thing--not even close. Ha!

Nero, I have tried to have it all, a marriage, a family, a career. Having someone in the side is in direction opposition to having it all in my mind. Keep hanging in there! Thank so much for your posts

T^2, yay! I gotcha to spew your coffee! What do I win? There has to be a chart with stickers at least. The scientific observation is the way to go for me too. Anything to keep my emotions out of it.

uR if you have any microwave recipes for this, I am all ears! If anything I'd like to stick his phone in there. Maybe you could make it a nice burial suit after it has been properly nuked.

Hey Mr AJ, to tell you the truth I think I'm just trying to look for any expectation or explaination to keep me ahead of the curve. Already this amount of "connecting" is throwing me off. I think my expectations lean negative. To go from filling out paperwork to meet with a lawyer, to "temporary" move in, to "dating" or rather going to a dating event together, to talks about things 4 months and 12 months from now, all in a months time...things are moving in a fast way for me. I keep getting surprised.

Yes it is so crazy how he acts! His patience is nil and my patience is out of control. I think that's good for him. For example he'll tell me about being ticked at a guy behind him for honking him at a stop sign and him yelling and cussing through the rear view mirror. My reply, "oh man you know what would have been great...just get out of your car, totally calm and be like, 'did you need something? Sorry I thought you needed some help or something. Everything okay?'" At least H was smiling after that. But seriously! So not worth getting upset about the first time, let alone when you repeat the story.

Btw, I did get him some "youthful/teenagery" cologne. Hah!

[Raine]

More catchup...

TVS: The mixing of normal (even better than normal) with him still holding onto OW is really difficult. That's when I start having doubts, until I think back to previous events. I hope that he is feeling the difference between being in the home vs on his own. Being here has seemed to have a major positive impact on the way he is feeling. But, that is hard to say. I didn't really see him the 7 months prior and when I did, he could have been completely different with me vs not me. I guess there is no denying those times when he was so depressed he never left his room for days. That is another reason I don't see him leaving. He has experienced life on his own, and I don't think it was all too great for him.

If we took OW out of the equation, I think there would just be another OW or also with my H, single guy friends who are immature for them to text. I think there is a need for constant contact from somewhere, something that makes them feel needed and important.

The toe comment was interesting to me too, because I got them done before the concert, and this is him just commenting on them, several days later. Also it was when we were sitting at a table...like he looked down and under the table? I dunno. Funny.

mizjjd, I get the need for distance too. That's why this is really hard right now...this balancing act of being there for him as his safe person, yet protecting myself and my boundaries. The numerous other women is a hard to get out of my mind too. I feel for you. Hang in there!


T^2: OW5, the EA doesn't seem to be too much different than the rest of the eager beavers. They all are saying "how high" when he says jump. But another thing that sets her apart besides my disdain is she is a total slut. I wouldn't be surprised if that is a factor. I hope that remains. I'm pretty grossed out at the thought of this one. That would be a pretty heavy straw.

I've wondered if he is doing these connection things to keep me roped in. It all just feels like a test. The losing what he can't commit to is right on target with my impressions of him, and not just with me. He has to keep all of them on a bit of a leash, just in case. Just in case at some point that's what he really wants and he hasn't burned that bridge. Thanks T for all your great insights. And yes, my toes are amazing. They made it through the MLC darkness and fog, they are that brilliant!

uRw: Those guidelines haven't helped me much, other than I can relate what he is doing at the moment to one of them, which helps my rational with this being MLC. But he is all over the map and always has been. I kept wanting to know, what is this and does any of this have any significance, because he is marching to his own mlc drum, yet it all relates to someone. Your post helped me a lot, in that I can see now I'm not imagining things. It is possible for him to move closer to me, yet still keep a hold of his safety blankets. I'm glad that I have had pretty strict, non-verbalized boundaries. It's all or nothing with me.

So quick update: H had his game night tonight, but left quite early. Usually I think he would only do this to go and see someone...but no, he came home early. He said he came home because he was hoping he could play a game with me. I was taking care of the baby though, and so the older boys went to hang out with him. So yes, this is hard. It's hard because he is reaching out, but his is not dropping any of the other ropes. I don't like the feeling that I'm just one of several ropes he is holding. I'm getting it. I am getting why this is the hardest part. Yuck!

[nero]

hiya raine -

you are sure sounding pretty darn "together" today - so yay you. i find it hard too - the interacting "normally" while i know he has ow (and possibly others) out there. keeping that other life all there - having his pick of what life he wants which day.

i want to say - grow up PICK ONE. I feel like you i think- all or nothin.

yet - here i am - riding along - accepting both and wondering if all he thinks is "oh boy- i can do anything - everybody wonts good ole me?) i hope it's not the message i'm sending - this is fine and dandy forever?

mwd says "don't say anything twice -if you've said it before- he's heard it". i've been doing good with that- not having any r discussions. remaining calm- more gal (but liking it less)

this morning 3 yrs of "coldness - i couldn't fathom" and 2 yrs of knowing exactly what's going on- feels like 1,000.

you are juggling a heck of alot and doing great & sound mentally strong too. yay

thanks for sharing your life here- it does help - i agree - to be able to check in and hear someone else say they're having the same things going on- their h is doing the same dopey things.

idk- i sure hope - well, now that i type that- i don't even want to talk about hope now. i guess we're not supposed to have one expectation in the world.

ta da- squelch that little hope guy.

i hope today is a good one for you & me & everyone too - lots of gal & detachment to get us thru.

xxo