Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2

[SemperFi00]

morning everyone. hope all are doing their best under the circumstances that find you here.

- had dinner w/sister and her family last night. nice to be able to do that while in town for business.
- everyone too tired to get Xmas tree which would have been fun so sister and I went gift shopping for my boys and hers. nice to be able to buy gift versus mailing a gift card
- ended up going with #6 in terms of response to last text from W. the more that I though about the less it seemed any response was necessary at this point. called last night to tell everyone good night and she acted like all was fine.

still find myself cycling through a mix of emotions but doing much better at letting them just happen. almost like an outsider looking in and observing if that makes any sense.

if I am being honest, would still like to find some way to connect with W and help her understand that there are other alternatives but at this point I have no expectation that will happen.

don't like the situation I find myself in but trying to keep in mind that I have no idea what the future will bring and that things can always get better!

[labug]

I think that you are referring to my comments below - I could have been more clear in my post. I don't want to seem disparaging at all.

No, my basis for that comment was from reading your sitch all along. It seems that you were very satisfied in your life before the BD and it baffles you that W wasn't. That's a red flag right there that you were so disconnected from each other that you couldn't see her unhappiness and she couldn't share it with you.

It's difficult because you see no need to change anything, she clearly wishes something was different but seems to have not shared that with you and now just wants out.

I know you're in pain about this but you can't fix her and this is about her and her unhappiness.

Refresh my memory, have you had a talk with her about any of this? Would you? And if so what would you say?

[SemperFi00]

Providing additional commentary in response to a couple of your recent posts.

No, my basis for that comment was from reading your sitch all along. It seems that you were very satisfied in your life before the BD and it baffles you that W wasn't. That's a red flag right there that you were so disconnected from each other that you couldn't see her unhappiness and she couldn't share it with you.

Thanks for clarification labug. Couple of other red flags that this comment stirs up – some going all the way back to when we were first dating and engaged:

W statement – “You are the first person I have ever been involved with that I don’t have to take care of….”
- helped raise step brother once her mom and step dad got together,
- best friend in high school got pregnant and the F left – she & friend raised the child;
- after high school she lived with a guy with kids, eventually he moved and she dropped out of college to go with him to take care of him and the kids
W statement – “You are the first person I have ever dated who hasn’t been a loser”
- For a few months her sister was almost always with us to ensure that I didn’t turn out to be another “bad person”
W statement – “I didn’t like you when I first met you. Too arrogant and just out of Marine Corps”
W statement recently – “I will always be thankful to you for giving me my boys”
According to W, F was alcoholic with a temper. At best was emotionally distant, may have been abusive but not sure.

Holy crap~! – combined with the recent observations from my T can’t help but ask the question did she just want someone to take care of her and help her raise a family???? And now she is done?

Not looking for very promising when all written out…………

Tough question: what have you changed about you that will be attractive to the kind of woman you might may be interested in?

- Less critical of others, including inwardly which I have to assume at some point came thru in outward actions
- More patience with kids in general (more engaged with S8, allowing S16 & S18 to be more responsible for their own actions / consequences and develop their potential)
- Helping out more around the house w/o being asked and trying not to over compensate
- Being more timely for appointments/events
- Exercising on a more regular basis
- Being more responsible for myself (errands, meals, laundry, etc…..)
- Better work/life balance (trying to leave work between 5 & 530 most days versus staying until I feel like I am done working – the work will still be there tomorrow)
- Stop being so tight w/$$$$ and worried about college & retirement – already have a fairly sizable nest egg and well paying job – ahead of the game
- Attending Mass more regularly – had been sporadic for a couple of years once S14 started playing football and games were on Sunday morning
- Daily devotional readings at beginning of each morning

Refresh my memory, have you had a talk with her about any of this? Would you?

Yes, have had conversations on a couple of occasions. W either can’t or won’t (not completely sure which) talk or discuss beyond a superficial level. Feels like there is no way that I could understand. 2-3 comments have been somewhat consistent::
- I lost myself in the M and other relationships by trying to always present a perfect image and do for others. Not your fault and I certainly should have told you but wasn’t even sure what was going on myself
- I am not happy being married to you any longer
- I no longer want you to touch me
- I don’t have “M feelings” for you any longer
Trying to get anywhere beyond the comments above generally just results in her shutting down and becoming angry and threatening D.

And if so what would you say?

Something like below is what I would like to say to W now – I am holding off because I don’t think she is currently in receptive spot. Although on the other hand, I am not sure at this point what I have to lose

"W, you are right I don’t understand completely. I can see how unhappy you currently are and that makes me sad. I understand that you have to continue on your own journey and I do not want to get in the way of that. I wish that there were other alternatives that could be considered that would not be be quite so destructive.

I would like to have an engaged R with a “life” partner and ideally I would like that to be with you if possible."

Lots of typing but good information hopefully……. Thoughts, comments 2x4s welcome………

[Wet]

Semper Fi,

While it was nice for W to let you know the D papers were coming, one option in my state is that you can get the papers directly from your W (or her atty, or anyone else that makes it easier) and then later sign an acknowledgment that you received it.

Her lawyer probably won't like this option, but it is your W's call. When you have a child (ren) around the house, no one likes to have a sheriff at your house serving papers, let alone divorce papers. And don't let her lie about the papers (adoption papers for goodness sake!) So see if she will simply hand you the papers herself, and then let you later sign and return (promptly) the Acknowledgment to her atty. It saves her $$$ having to pay the sheriff to do this, and it lowers your stress level. A win/win for everyone.

[SemperFi00]

Wet, thanks for you comments.

Although she hasn't said anything since I got home last night, my assumption is that she has them somewhere here at the house now.

Maybe not, I just looked at the text again and I guess she doesn't specifically say that. Maybe they will be coming back at some point to deliver again????? Hadn't thought about that as an option.

And I really deplore the idea of lying to children about what is going on........ have been thinking a lot about how to deal with that. I don't want to either directly or indirectly lie about it to S18 who was here - yet I also don't necessarily want to tell them during the holidays.....

I know it is not/was not my choice in timing and that I can't control that - just thinking about the kids and what is best for them.......

Thoughts?

[labug]

As I see it, you're moving into different territory now. She's filed so you need to have your ducks in a row.

This

"W, you are right I don’t understand completely. I can see how unhappy you currently are and that makes me sad. I understand that you have to continue on your own journey and I do not want to get in the way of that.

is a good place to start. Then work together to make this happen in a non-destructive way. DB doesn't mean you lay down and be taken advantage of.

Open a conversation. That's probably a 180 for you.

[labug]

About this

combined with the recent observations from my T can’t help but ask the question did she just want someone to take care of her and help her raise a family???? And now she is done?

Yes!

But I don't think it was a nefarious long-range plan. For most women finding someone who would be a good father is always part of the plan. Did she think "OK, I'll marry this guy, have children with him, adopt his nephew and then dump him"? Highly unlikely. Your W doesn't seem like a conniving person.

IIRC, you might have married her to rescue and take care of her, "father" her. Unless we're really emotionally grounded, most of us marry people who fill a unmet need for us and often our spouses in some way resemble our opposite-sex parent.

Your W has a lot of baggage, as many of us do. Leave her to figure that out.

You can continue working on who you need to be.

[SemperFi00]

As I see it, you're moving into different territory now. She's filed so you need to have your ducks in a row.

This

"W, you are right I don’t understand completely. I can see how unhappy you currently are and that makes me sad. I understand that you have to continue on your own journey and I do not want to get in the way of that.

is a good place to start. Then work together to make this happen in a non-destructive way. DB doesn't mean you lay down and be taken advantage of.

^^^^ is the plan. Let's see how well I can stick to it. The vast majority of the time I want her to be happy - even if that means moving on - and have a great R with the kids. And even some sort of R w/me.

There are times though where I really struggle with that given my deep seated beliefs related to commitment/loyalty/family etc.... At one point she progressed to be on the same page with this but clearly something has happened to change that or something is temporarily block it......

Open a conversation. That's probably a 180 for you.

The whole conversation topic as it relates to our R is one that is very interesting. For many early years, we talked and discussed everything (some things I never would have confided if I had ever thought there was a chance we would have a romantic relationship).

This continued for many years of our M - friends and family often commented about it. Somewhere along the way I guess it slowed way down and since b-date it has been nearly non-existent.

I don't like that but it was what happened and I don't think it was intentional on either part. I guess we just got busy with kids, family, household, career etc.... and figured we would have time together later after the kids were raised...... sad story! I am not angry about the fact that it happened or that feelings changed - like I said before neither of us intended for it to happen, I am frustrated and angry about not doing all we can to move towards developing an engaged R.

The biggest challenge I have right now is my desire to see if we could build something again where we could have that connection and communication...... and balancing that with the fact that W feels is either not possible or would take too much effort.....

[SemperFi00]

Quick recap of the day........

Took car for service at dealership. w asked me to look at car she was interested in. requested style of car she is interested in as courtesy car so she could look at it and test drive.

went as family to get Xmas tree-W's suggestion. Lights and ornaments will be tomorrow. Quickest decision ever on tree and getting it in the stand.

Watched movie at home and ate as family. Very funny movie about fake cops. All laughed and seemed to enjoy.......

All seemed kind of normal except I know she has the papers here at house somewhere. Don't understand how W can ask for my help and suggest family things while also filing for D.

could she really believe that's this how it will be after D?

More tomorrow. Gotta go - very sleepy. Good night all.

[Wet]

Semper Fi,

I think you are amazing. To have a "normal" day with W and your sons with the Divorce papers hanging over your head, shows the sort of strength not many of us have. Keep it up!