Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2

[SemperFi00]

New thread - last one was locked quick. Right at 101 posts...

link to prev threads for background if of interest:

Previous threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=31323

[SemperFi00]

Bringing over from previous thread to continue the discussion.....

You can have these things, companionship, life partner, physical connection and not love the person you're with. Love should never be implied. Nor should anger or pain or frustration. A relationship should be strong enough to hold all those emotions.
So labug this ^^^ is very interesting to me. Always appreciate your comments and the questions you ask.

I agree that a R should be strong enough to handle many different emotions, conversations, actions, etc……. I don’t quite get what a R would look like that had all of those things but there was no love – interested in what that would look like?? Another way to ask the question would be to ask you to describe how you would define/describe love?

For me, love is also about the selfless acts of kindness and caring that a person does because of the feelings they have for someone else.....

Maybe I need to expand my definition a bit though......

You're a very controlled guy, or that's the impression I get from your posting. I could be very wrong. When was the last time you were angry? I don't mean the acting out of anger, I mean you felt anger, let yourself feel it, allowed it to cool and went to the other person and said "Let's talk."

It took me a long time to learn that anger isn't the problem it's how we express it that can be the problem.

Agree that anger is not usually the problem – it is more typically in how a person deals with the anger that can create problems.

When I was younger I had a real problem with how I dealt with anger. I can remember times when I was in jr high and high school being so mad that I would repeatedly hit trees, walls, etc… until my hands would bleed. I can also remember times just out of the military when someone would cut me off driving, give me the wrong food at the drive-thru or say something disrespectful that I would become very confrontational.

Some of this my W was exposed to early in our R (probably 15 or more years ago) but mostly not. Nothing ever physical w/her or the kids but her father was borderline abusive and emotionally dis-engaged from the family so it's a real trigger for her.

I can only think of 1x in the past 5 years or so that there has been any scenario – I slapped a wall in frustration while heading out to my car on the way to work and cracked the drywall. Pressure was caused by a few things: job being relocated to another state, F dying of cancer and W beginning on this “journey”.

So yeah, very aware and controlled about emotions in general – especially anger. Not proud of any of this and I know how ridiculous it sounds when the emotion has subsided and when reading it typed out here.

Have a heavy bag in the basement that I sometimes use to help with the frustration and I also find that regular walks on the treadmill and daily meditation readings help manage the stress level a great deal.

It's even more of a problem when we express it by withdrawing.

Embarrassingly enough have done this also. I have realized that sometimes I was doing it to calm down and other times I was doing it in hope that it would cause a reaction from W. Not a good thing I know and a work in progress..... Haven't done this in quite awhile that I am aware of

Feels at this point like I am at an intervention and should say "....my name is SemperFI and I have been pout free for XXX years"

Will come back to some of your other points a little later....

[labug]

I agree that a R should be strong enough to handle many different emotions, conversations, actions, etc……. I don’t quite get what a R would look like that had all of those things but there was no love – interested in what that would look like?? Another way to ask the question would be to ask you to describe how you would define/describe love?

What would that R look like? Maybe 50% of marriages in America today.

Here's the bottom line-most women (and probably men, too) like to hear that the person they have those things with loves them.

This was one of the problems in my M, we started living like roommates who shared children. We didn't look at each other with love, we didn't honor each other as the person we loved, we each held our resentments and allowed them to build.

The way you express love may not be received as love by your W. The 5LLs is so simple but so powerful. I now make time to those things for my H which mean love to him and I also say it out loud with meaning. Its hard not to feel the power when you look someone in the eye and say "I love you" and mean it.

You wrote about how you used to express anger, thanks, that's difficult to do. What made you change and what were your changes? There is a middle ground between violence and shutting down, would you agree?

[labug]

Definition: Love contains trust, honesty, openness, compassion, intimacy(both physical and emotional), affection, acceptance of the other for just who they are, respect for the needs of the other, patience.

Thanks for making me think about that.

[SemperFi00]

Couple of quick things to journal

Had the opportunity to implement idesa shared in recent discussion on last thread and went golfing on Sunday with neighbors who needed a 4th. Had a good time – W was supportive.

W shared news last night that she had been offered and accepted a full job in the school system starting in the Fall. Increase of $3 an hour, benefits and more hours. Congratulated her several times and told her that I thought it was great. Asked a couple of questions – but not so many as to annoy

Couple of times recently W has taken up for me w/the boys during conversations with them.

Had a teacher/parent conference today for S8 that I made the time to attend by leaving work for a bit - With prev 2 (because she was SAHM I often didn’t go and she updated me in the evening). I wanted to be there because I am an engaged father and I made sure I was actively involved in the conversation and provided input versus just observing. I reminded her about it this morning before leaving for work and then she remembered the appointment and said that someone had called to move it 30 minutes earlier. She didn’t tell me not to go but 2x indicated that she didn’t think it was a big deal if I was there or not – she expected the meeting to be quick.

Meeting was quick and informative – glad that I went. Only weird part was that the entire time we were @ the meeting she was bubbly, upbeat, friendly, talkative, engaging me in the conversation, etc…. When walking out to cars afterwards it was like a light was shut off……… Oh well, I don’t think that’s my issue and right now I don’t feel the R is in a place where that can be discussed so typing here instead…..

More later……

[Lifes Twists]

Hi SemperFi,

Good to hear you are being engaged with all things about your children. I feel that part of the WAS view is the other spouse is not involved with the kids. Keep up with the GAL stuff. Its all important for you and your personal growth.

[SemperFi00]

This was one of the problems in my M, we started living like roommates who shared children. We didn't look at each other with love, we didn't honor each other as the person we loved, we each held our resentments and allowed them to build.

Things were/are similar in my situation – although I don’t think that there was significant resentment @ least on my end. I guess because I thought things were going along ok and was content w/where we were at the time. Maybe even a bit complacement and things had fallen into a fairly predictable routine which fits well with my personality – but clearly not for W.

I am a bit worried that there is some resentment beginning to build for me now though because of W’s unwillingness to work on building a new R and the pain that I expect her leaving to cause myself and the boys. Also, from my perception she continues to enjoy the advantages of being in a R w/o doing the work. And yes, I know that’s why she is where she is at now and that I am the one here trying to save the M.

That’s why I don’t like the feeling of resentment when it comes up. Also, a couple of times during this journey I have felt jealousy (and maybe insecurity) for the first time ever in R w/W. Have dealt with it in past relationships just have never felt this way before during M. I know what triggered it and it wasn’t necessarily different behavior for W than how she has always acted – just a different set of circumstances. I shared with her how I was feeling, why I was feeling that way, that I didn’t like feeling that way and then let it go.

I suppose all of this ^^^ contributes to the controlled observation you have accurately made a couple of times – particularly when it comes to emotions.

[SemperFi00]

You wrote about how you used to express anger, thanks, that's difficult to do. What made you change and what were your changes? There is a middle ground between violence and shutting down, would you agree?

Appreciate the comments ^^^ but it is not now all that difficult for me to talk about – I used to get defensive about it though and tell people they were exaggerating. Until I matured a bit, I often rationalized the behaviors as not that big of a deal because any of the physical stuff was directed at inanimate objects and the withdrawing was just childish behavior that wasn’t really effective. Silly right? I know that now……

I changed for a few reasons: always felt guilty & childish after I reacted that way and didn’t like that feeling once I had calmed down, at one point W expressed concern about it and that she wasn’t sure she could stay in R if it continued (can’t recall now if this was before M or in the first couple of years), it wasn’t the example I wanted to show future children and in the end it just wasn’t who I wanted to be anymore.

Yes, agree there is a middle ground. That is where I strive to stay – feeling and understanding the anger but not reacting to it in inappropriate & non-productive ways. Not healthy to keep it all inside and also not healthy to release it the way that a 20-something, military kid chose to express it either!

[SemperFi00]

Definition: Love contains trust, honesty, openness, compassion, intimacy(both physical and emotional), affection, acceptance of the other for just who they are, respect for the needs of the other, patience.

Thanks for making me think about that.

Glad to help!

I like the definition above and it seems to sit well with me. It gets to some of the points that I was trying to make earlier but I really like the phrasing “love contains…….”

[SemperFi00]

And labug you have also asked about times I have felt anger recently…… just a couple of nights ago

Quick recap of events:
- got home from a rough day @ work around 630p (later than my target time from 180ss and later than when I wanted to be home)
- W was on tractor mowing the lawn which was great - unfortunately she had set the blade too low and sheared off two sprinkler heads and scalped the yard in a couple of places. She really enjoys mowing the lawn and had just mowed ours 3-4 days ago so it really didn’t need it yet but she had just finished mowing neighbor’s yard because they were out of town for a funeral
- went inside and found that nothing had been started for dinner and kids were saying they were hungry
- went upstairs to find several loads of laundry on the floor in the bedroom along with windows open while A/C was on

Any one of these events in and of themselves probably would have probably been handled by a “whatever, not all that important” type of approach. The combination (plus current situation) escalated my feelings a bit and I cycled through a feeling that I wanted to yell at W, then thoughts around whether she was intentionally doing some of these things just to aggravate me and eventually would up in a place where I was like “whatever, it’s ridiculous to let these things get me that upset”.

So I closed the windows, started some laundry, thanked my W for mowing the lawn and tested the sprinklers – thankfully they still worked – and the night continued on. This whole cycle probably took about 10-15 minutes.

To be fair though it must not have been completely transparent to W because S18 said something about stopping mowing and W made a comment – something to the effect of “what, you too?”

Ugh – I see that I am still not perfect and have some work remaining…. But the good news is the work is only needed for the rest of this life!