Hi folks, here is one thread that didn't become a sticky. It's things about MLC etc. It's From many years ago, and it's very good for Newbies and those wishing to get more understanding etc.
Thanks for these Delboy. I see so much of my W's ongoing behaviors and her rationales for them, it's scary. I sometimes have the urge to print things like this out and send it to W, but I know that will do no good. The old W would have been fascinated, the new W would just ignore it I'm sure. Anyway, thanks again.
Me42 W41 D10,D15 T25 M23 LYBNILWY 09/12 OEA 08/12(?)-ended? 01/13 Sep 01/13 I file 04/13 1rst D hearing 06/13 Currently in mediation
I would like to offer Paddy’s Six Stages of Midlife Crisis, or more appropriately Six Stages of Paddy’s Midlife Crisis.
1. The Happy Marriage (23 years BGZ -before ground zero)
Love, youth, kids, friends, planning for the future. The usual ups and downs, but this seemed to go by so fast that the bumps were not felt, the kids grew older too fast and life was good.
2. The Subconscious Struggle - Part A-No Clue (8-10 years BGZ)
I still perceived myself as being in an overall good situation. There were the usual stressors: work, teenagers, parents, bills, getting older, issues with my wife. I kind of realized I was not quite satisfied with my life, but I could not put my finger on it. Looking back on this time I realize I was not the perfect companion, although at the time I was too focused on my own needs and struggles to see this. I was a Dad, but still wanted to be a kid. I was a husband, but still wanted to be attractive to other women. I was pretty insecure in spite of my successes. I was not totally satisfied, but was restless and completely unaware of the impending disaster.
2. The Subconscious Struggle - Part B -Very Slightly less clueless (0-8 years BGZ)
I was tending to focus more on issues with my spouse as the source for my restlessness. I never thought about leaving, but I began a lot of fantasizing about something different than what I had. I became more involved with exercise, music, coaching my kids (probably as a way to look for some distractions or fulfilment). Still no thoughts of leaving, Loved my wife. Basically I was still clueless.
3. Fantasy Becomes Reality - Ground Zero (Tapers off over about one year)
All repressed frustration in my life seems to feel released when someone I have been fantasizing about shows emotional and physical interest in me. The feeling is overwhelming. I imagine it feels like combining a bath in the fountain of youth, a rush of heroin reaching my brain, and the feeling of getting up on Christmas morning as a child, only better (I have only experienced Christmas morning). I couldn’t stay away from it if my life depended on it. It was a pull so strong that came out of nowhere. It was like falling from the sky, I could only go down. When you are falling, how do you stop falling down and start to fall up?
4. I Can’t Get Off The Train (or some trains do go both ways) (1-2 years post Ground Zero) -I still can’t get off
Confusion, ambivalence. I still loved my wife and my friend of 30 years. I still had the attraction/addiction to the other woman and the fantasy of another life. Back and forth. Cortex vs Limbic system. Brain vs heart. New vs Old. Therapy, depression, suicidal thoughts, anti-depressants. The pain and hurt of my kids and wife. I had no idea what I wanted or needed. I was still mostly blaming my wife for her role in this. If she had just changed, everything would have been different. The pull from the other woman was like a drug (once I have started using I couldn’t stop). I could not be honest with my wife about contact with the other woman.
5. Fasten your seatbelts and prepare for landing. (Is this grand Central or Terrapin Station?) (2 years from Ground Zero to present)
Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Things seem clearer. I see what I have given up and who I have hurt. I take more responsibility. This has been about me more than my wife. I am no longer depressed. I am slowly learning about myself and why this happened. I am continuing psychotherapy and have recently begun spiritual counselling. My wife has been very patient and as understanding as a person can be. Although I try to separate myself from the other woman, I still sometimes break down and contact her and I cannot always be honest about this with my wife. Although I feel like I am learning to be more honest. The fantasy of the other woman is less a fantasy and less addicting. I feel like I want to go back to my wife and family, but I need to know this for sure. I don’t want to hurt them again, and it was also very painful for me. I want to move slowly and be sure I am ready before I commit. I want to act out of wisdom, and not fear or guilt.
6. Stepping onto fertile ground - My feet, don’t fail me now!
I’m not there yet. If it is to be with my wife. It will not be the same as before, it will be better. There will be much happiness and good, but also some sad things. I will be much wiser and I will be a better companion and friend from what I have learned. I hope to be mindful of my partner’s needs and less focused on myself. I hope to work hard to keep my new relationship exciting and romantic.
I will live in the moment and not for the future.
Thanks for listening.
Posted on the Midlife Club Forum in 2003 by forum member Paddy.
Here's another good thread from midlife crisis forum.com
Just thought I would post Tom's excellent advice onto this thread. Tom K
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, the life of a superhero is never easy....
Hurtin in Houston,
Take some consolation in the fact, that this is one of the best places you can come to, to discuss and vent. I guarantee you one thing...NO ONE else will understand what you're going through like the people on this forum will. You can take that to the bank...
Let's see now...your W will be turning 40 within the year...her child has left home...she's running again to get in shape...she needs to meet Internet man to make her life complete...she's moving out to get some space. All classic MLC symptoms as you undoubtedly have read about. Have you gotten the "I love you, but am not sure if I'm in love with you" speech yet? If not, I bet you will.
Like the others here are telling you, do not blame yourself. If your post is as sincere as it seems, you're probably a real good guy, and have the same flaws as the rest of us. Remind yourself...this is about her, not about you. Don't even blame the internet man. If it wasn't there, it would have been someone at work, or an old friend she met, etc. How they meet them is NOT important. The other person acts as a catalyst, which enables or empowers them to give in to the dissatisfaction they are feeling. You did nothing wrong. You may look back and think "oh, if only I did this or didn't do that, things would be better". Wrong...nada...don't count on it. Trust me...I've done all that soul searching stuff too. Everyone here could have been a "better" spouse, in some sense. Could have done things a little differently in retrospect. But remember this...your W could have been a better spouse too. I'm sure she wasn't flawless.
I hate to tell you this, but more than likely things will get worse before they get better. Not what you want to hear is it? Sorry, I just want to prepare you for what may lay ahead.
MLC is not gender neutral. You'll see many more stories here, of men who have abandoned their spouses and families, than you will of wives who have done the same. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen...just means most of our male brethren don't express their situations in forums like this.
Camille mentioned a few sites you should check out. I encourage you to do so. You will be better prepared to react to your W's problem if you can gain some insight into what she's going through. I, unfortunately, came upon this forum a little too late. My reactions were more of the knee-jerk response, instead of the well thought out responses that MLC'ers need.
John has also made some points you should really pay attention to. He is able to give insights that will enlighten you. Listen to him...he will be brutally honest with you. Read all the posts you can. You will find so many similarities in the stories, you will be astounded! You know that old saying...about finding strength in numbers? Well, you will find strength here as our numbers are growing daily...
Understand that reasoning with your W, will probably get you nowhere. MLC'ers wear blinders, and only see the "truths" they want to see. No matter how strong your defenses are...if they don't want to see it that way, they won't. Don't try to compete with Internet Man...you'll lose. Don't degrade him either...your W will defend him.
We talk a lot here, of detaching with love. That is really what you must learn to do. But you're too soon into this to understand that yet. But it seems to be one of the only actions that as shown to be helpful in situations like yours.
Use your time wisely. Rediscover who you are and what your needs are. Read about relationships and what it takes to improve and/or restore them. Your relationship with your W will never be the same. It just can't... But, it is possible to make it better than it was...I sincerely believe that. It will take a lot of effort from both of you to do it. Your W is not focusing her energy on your relationship right now. Doesn't mean you can't.
Good luck to you, and come back here often
Tom K
Here is the second lesson from Tom. I think this advice is too good to lose amongst other posts.
Tom K
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HIH, I've given you some time to digest yesterdays lesson. I didn't want to overwhelm you on your first day in school. (Lord knows I've scared away Abyssal and KOs Dad already with my brutal honesty) Get out your #2 pencil, and take notes. We obviously have some things to go over.
Yesterday we discussed some generalities today we'll concentrate on specifics. If anyone else wants to sit in here is welcome to do so.
The people in full-blown MLC, make decisions hard and fast. Because the justifications for their decisions are typically weak, they usually refuse to discuss the situation with close friends or loved ones who may attempt to change their minds. This is why they withdraw from that circle of acquaintances, and often develop a support group consisting of people they have only known for a short time. Since the new group does not have intimate knowledge of the MLCer's life, they have no choice but to support and encourage their decisions.
I believe that people in full-blown MLC are in denial. They typically start with the "I love you, but am not in love with you" story. In their minds, this justifies their decisions and actions. However, they soon realize that they are still unhappy, and become more confused. Eventually, they decide that they never loved their spouse, or that they have been unhappy for more years than they originally thought. They start to blame their spouses for their perceived unhappiness. In reality, what they are doing is their own form of detachment. If they believe that their spouse caused their problems, it becomes easier for them to "walk away" from their marriage. They usually refuse to acknowledge any happy or good times in their married life, because it defeats their own reasoning. They may "invent" or blow out of proportion, events that they feel validated their unhappiness in the relationship.
People in full blown MLC, do not want to even consider any options, other than those they have formulated. It seems they have a real need, to convince their spouses of the situation as they see it. When the spouse refuses to accept those views, or offers arguments that seemingly prove those points invalid, the MLCer's become angry. They need to convince their spouse, in order to help convince themselves. This is when their real hurtful behavior starts. If they can create an atmosphere of intense disharmony between themselves and their spouse, it only serves to justify all the decisions they have already made. When the spouse counters with kindness, caring, or compassion, it creates an internal conflict in the MLCer. You see HIH, they need to dislike you and what better way to achieve that, than by getting you to dislike them. It allows them to distance themselves from those people that were so important to them.
As you know, MLCer's cannot recognize what is happening to them. They believe they are still the same people they have always been, and that they are merely taking control of their lives. They often feel that they are the victims, not the spouses they left behind. HIH, you mentioned your dogs as being the babies your W and you cherished. You're hoping she'll miss them, and I'm sure she will. However, she is going to rationalize that you "need" them more than she does. She will feel she is doing the noble thing, by leaving them in your care, to give you comfort. She's proving to herself that she is a good person, and overlooking the fact that her other actions are inconsistent with that view.
Next week, we will discuss what you need to do for yourself. In the meantime, forget about the personal ads. Talk like that merely cheapens the love you have for your W. Two wrongs never equal a right, okay? Use the weekend for the personal hibernation you were talking about. Think about the good aspects of your married life, and prepare yourself for a journey you did not choose to take. We're going to help you every step of the way. Tom K
Lesson #3 from Tom K. Hope you don't mind me posting your messages onto this thread Tom, but I feel they are excellent advice.
Tom K
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HiH, I hope you're ready for lesson #3. So far, you seem to be keeping up nicely. It is very important for your own recovery, to understand as much as you can about MLCer's and what drives them. Why? Because then, you will truly see that this is all about them, and not really about you. Oh sure, you are impacted by their decisions and actions. But they don't really see it that way. You are merely a speed-bump in their journey to glorious expectations. They definitely think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. They don't realize that the grass is greener where you water it!
One thing you MUST come to understand is that the MLCer's believe their choices are the right ones. They have come to believe that they are doing nothing wrong. They have convinced themselves that there are no other options. Haven't you read numerous posts on this forum, about spouses who just walk away from a 10, 15, 20, or 25-year marriage, and refuse to make any attempt to save it? From the accounts of the spouses left behind, they usually felt that they had a good marriage, a good relationship, and had seen no indication of any real problems. Why won't the MLCer at least make an attempt to restore what once was? HiH, you could go back and review your notes from lessons #1 & #2 to find the answer, but I'll save you the trouble. The people in full-blown MLC are consumed with themselves, their happiness is of paramount importance to them. Everything and everyone else in the world plays second fiddle to their needs. But,(and this is a very important but), the MLCer's will not admit this to anyone including themselves. If they did, they couldn't see themselves as the victim. If they admitted this, then they might have to consider that they are making a mistake. Their own self-image could be destroyed and they will NOT take that chance.
Everyone has a perception in their own mind, of the kind of person they believe themselves to be. No one wants to believe, or be told, that the self-image they have is not correct. This is when rationalizing starts to take precedence over truth. Example: Have you ever received more change back than you were owed from a store clerk? What is the right thing to do in that situation? Advise the clerk of the mistake and refund the incorrect change right? Keeping the money instead, is actually dishonest, and akin to thievery. However, many of us (myself included) start using rationalization to not return the money. I've been overcharged before, so this balances it out. The amount of money is negligible, and the store won't miss it as much as I will. I shop here so often, this store owes me for my patronage etc. People who perceive themselves as honest and upright, use this type of rationalizing to justify their actions, and not damage their self image. They truly convince themselves, that what they have done is acceptable even though, they know that stealing is wrong. Now I know, that my example doesn't even come close to comparing with the choices our MLCer's make. It wasn't intended to. Its the theory that is important here, to understand how an MLCer can do all the things they do, and seem so oblivious to the pain and hurt it causes those of us left behind.
HiH, if you can now understand better, your Wife's choices and actions, then you are halfway home. Now comes the hard part, understanding yourself. Determining what is the motivating force behind your actions and decisions. It obviously makes no sense for any of us to love someone who doesn't love us back, right? Then why do so many of us make the decision to continue to love a person like that? Camille explained it very well on another thread. Losing the love and/or companionship of a spouse, rips at your very being. It creates a void in your world, which initially seems impossible to fill. Eventually, other things that are important to you can begin to fill that void. Whether it's children, or pets, or work, or activities, or whatever, with time, the void you feel lessens. You must rediscover, what is important to you. I don't mean sit down and draw up a list in 15-20 minutes. You must search for the answers, and let them reveal themselves to you.
Have you ever seen the movie City Slickers? Before he croaks, Jack Palance tells Billy Crystal that he knows the secret to life, and he holds up a finger to signify that there is one thing, and one thing only. Crystal takes the rest of the movie, to figure out, that the one thing is different for everybody! What I'm trying to tell you HiH, is that your answers will be different than mine. The important things in your life are exclusive to you. They may be similar to others, but not exactly the same. Only you can determine what things are so important to you that they can help fill your void.
This is why reading is important. This is why going out with friends, or joining clubs, or pursuing hobbies is so important. You have to experience life, with all its ups and downs, in order to discover what is important to you. Typically, we spouses left behind discover that we have suppressed part of ourselves during our married life. Now you must determine what your needs and wants are. Focusing solely on your W and her actions, preclude you from doing so. This is why we preach detachment; not to be confused with abandonment. This is your time my friend, your time to let your answers reveal themselves to you. Understand your W, and by all means, learn to understand yourself.
