Doing the limbo thing (thread 7)

[shodan]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2496087#Post2496087

Link to my previous thread above...

I am speaking with my DB coach later about all of the aforementioned topics and how she would recommend that I proceed.

The past few days have had some ups ad downs. My W can be a little bi-polar,but not in an extreme way. One day, she looks me in the eye, is super friendly and then the next day seems to want to avoid me, does not make eye contact, seems rushed, etc.

We ended up hanging out Monday and Wednesday nights. We had a great time. She expressed her sadness that we are where we are and mentioned that she deserves a lot of the blame for where we are. She agreed that we just did not make each other a priority and did not communicate our needs to each other. She also said she knows that a D would devastate our family.

What frustrates me is that she will outline the issues and will agree that they do not seem insurmountable. But yet she won't get off square one and just commit to working on our M.

I clearly just need to back off.

My other concern is my kids. They both have now said things about how we are behaving as a family. My S8 cried last night and said that everyone was being mean to each other. It broke my heart. I don't think we are overtly mean. My W definitely can be short with everyone (including the kids) and I will show my frustration, which is perceived as being mean.

Finally, a friend of mine thinks my W is depressed. She is just unhappy inside and needs help.

[Drew]

One day, she looks me in the eye, is super friendly and then the next day seems to want to avoid me, does not make eye contact, seems rushed, etc. and I will show my frustration, which is perceived as being mean.

Hate to say it Sho, but that's pretty typical behavior for someone in an active affair.

[Starsky309]

What frustrates me is that she will outline the issues and will agree that they do not seem insurmountable. But yet she won't get off square one and just commit to working on our M.

That's because she is leading with her feelings.

[shodan]

Yup, that is what my DB coach said. Her advice was to back off. While there has been a lot of progress since my situation started in June/July, my W clearly is still not ready to fully commit. She said my motto should be "no pressure" about everything. This will give her the space that she needs/wants while also getting her to miss me more. Like you have said, my W needs to realize that she will lose me. That is very likely why she is not ready to commit yet.

[theoden]

Shodan,

You said:

Like you have said, my W needs to realize that she will lose me. That is very likely why she is not ready to commit yet.

How is your wife going to realize she'll lose you?

You sleep in the same bed, you've been tolerating her affair patiently, have laid down little or no boundaries (except saying you won't live in an open-marriage while you still live in one), and allowed her to pretend she's not in an affair. Maybe I haven't read your full sitch, but have you created a separate bank account, or something to indicate you are readying yourself for a new life without her?

How will your wife miss you more, unless there's some way she feels your absence and feels like you are moving with your life WITH or WITHOUT her? They say GAL and Last Resort Technique probably are a powerful combo in doing that. I personally think it's hard to maintain LRT for months and months -- it's easy to slip and allow your cheating spouse to cake-eat, since you are human, warm-hearted and love your wife.

How is wife feeling you slowly slip away?

How can you not pressure her into re-commiting, while subtly signaling you are moving on?

--Theoden

[shodan]

Theoden,

Great question. You are right that I have done a poor job of showing this. I have met with a few mediators and send my W the notes from those meetings. I had been pushing her to meet with one of them with me, but I have not been able to get our schedules to align.

Besides that, you are right that we share the same bed and the same life due to our kids. I don't want to move out and frankly don't want her to either. I am definitely less available for her (not calling or texting) and do my own thing from time to time. This weekend was tough due to Halloween and my S8's birthday party...I did not want to ruin anything for my kids.

Ultimately, I am trying to be the husband only a fool would leave and acting as if. For example, at the Halloween party we went to on Friday, I was social and fun, getting drinks for other people, etc. Of course, multiple people commented that my W and I were a super cute couple, even though we were near each other only 20% of the party. My W heard these comments.

This week I have a work dinner tonight and then my W is traveling for work Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday (back Thursday night). We will not see each other much this week.

[Sotto]

"You sleep in the same bed, you've been tolerating her affair patiently, have laid down little or no boundaries (except saying you won't live in an open-marriage while you still live in one), and allowed her to pretend she's not in an affair."

Shodan, I agree with Theoden here. You say that you are trying to be the husband only a fool would leave. But I don't think you are dealing with the fundamental issue here - what you will and will not tolerate in your R. What are your boundaries? At what point will you actually implement the "I won't live in an open M" boundary that you say you have?

I think you are giving messages to your W that it's okay to disrespect your M and not act in the best interests of you, your R and your kids - that you will still share a bed, be loving and accept the A continuing without making fundamental changes in your M.

I worry for you that you are actually making yourself into the husband "only a fool would stay with." I'm sorry if that sounds harsh.

But above all, your W needs to respect you, and your current approach/stance doesn't demonstrate self respect. See the Chump Lady website - are you doing the 'pick me' dance? I don't think acting social and fun at a party is going to 'cut it' whilst you aren't dealing with this fundamental boundary issue. And if you do set a boundary, your W may not like it, and it will upset the "apple cart" but she'll sure as heck respect it.

You say "we share the same bed and the same life 'due to our kids.' I don't want to move out" - but that just sounds like a weak excuse to me....

One thing I try and remember is that 'who I am' during this process is actually more important than the R. At the end of this, you need to feel happy that you have been the person you want to be in your life going forwards. Not just buried your own needs and interests to try and save your M. Good marriages should be based on equality.

Please forgive any harshness. I know this is hard, but I do think you need to face this issue....

[Anaru]

Seeing a lot of parallels in this thread to my own situation.
I am at the point of:
- moving up to the attic to sleep
- separating bank accounts (moving my salary to my own account, removing overdraft facility from the joint account)

Right now we are kind of passing each other in the house, not saying much. I am initiating contact less and less (falling off the wagon occasionally) while being friendly and open
Older 2 sons are away as much as they can be either at school or at their girlfriends

Having a plan and having support from others to implement it helps. Sharing the true nature of the situation with my sons also helps my resolve - as it is also about protecting them.

[shodan]

Thank you to everyone for their feedback. I really do appreciate it. I am thinking about what I want to do now. I know that my W needs to end the A before we can work on our M. I think she ended it but could still be in contact with him. Therefore, the "addiction" still has its fangs in her.

As everyone has stated, she needs to feel that she is losing me. She has stated that to me directly (e.g., "I know being in limbo is not fair and that I risk you being fed up and just leaving me.") But I need to make my actions back up my words. How I plan to do this, without moving out, is to be much less available to her. I need to make sure that our paths do not cross and that I am out for work or fun when she is at home.

Ultimately, I am going to take any and all pressure off of her and give her space.

[shodan]

I should have added that I did speak with my W last night while she was traveling for work and she admitted to the A, albeit only an EA.

We somehow got into a discussion of our R and I mentioned that we need full trust and honestly before we can work on our R. I told her that I know what has been going on with her and the OM, that it was disrespectful and damaging to our M and our family. I said that even if we don't stay married, we will be tied at the hip for the rest of our lives due to our kids, birthday parties, holidays, graduations, grandkids, etc. Therefore, it is in our best interest to be honest with each other no matter what the outcome of our M.

She of course denied everything at first but then finally admitted to a very serious EA with him. She said he was there for her when she was so unhappy. She said that I was not around (I was at martial arts two nights per week) and that he was there for her. She told me that she knows this was a bad thing for our marriage, was sorry that she did it and that she should never have gone there (she claims they are not in contact). But she also said that it may be a signal that our M is not working if she found it appropriate to seek solace outside of our M.

Do I think it was an EA only? No. I am 99.99% confident it was physical. Not sure that it really matters actually...an EA is equally damaging to a M.

so the positive outcome is that she "admitted" to it. But clearly she is not in the place of wanting NC, wanting to give me full transparency and wanting to work in our M at all costs.