Going Down Hill 2

[zed]

I have told her before. If you want space you can take it. I don't keep you tied up in the basement. You are free to come and go as you please. I don't believe it is up to me to give intentionally work away from home and leave the house to give you your space.

I have been making a effort to give her space. I by no way follow her around the house. I usually try to take the kids downstairs to play. And when she is playing with the kids I go find something else to do. I have been taking work away from home to give her some space. When I am not working at home I go out 1-2 nights a week to play hockey. I also try to go out with friend once a week. So it should be on her to make her own space as well right?

[GoatGal]

Hey there, zed.

Sorry to read you've been hanging out in the spewing wind by yourself these past days. I know many have been busy with Thanksgiving, etc., so it's been rough.

Just reading part of your sitch, it looks as though you're in a rough spot.
It's hard to say if you really are being stubborn, or--as I suspect--your wife is working really hard into intimidating you into doing what SHE wants you to do and so far it hasn't worked.

So now she's upping the ante, saying the kids will suffer... As if they won't suffer when their mother blows up their family?

This is just my opinion now, but here it is:

I think it's perfectly fair to expect 50/50 custody of YOUR children. At least. That is, if you are in a position with work/finances, to provide a good environment for them.

I also think it's perfectly fair for you to remain in YOUR house, at least for the time being. It sounds as though, if W really wants "space" she can go stay with her mother, right?

You offered to buy another house and do what is called "Nesting" meaning the kids stay put and you and W alternate staying in the home with them. If you can afford it, what is wrong with this setup in your W's mind, do you think?

You are out, GALing, as you should be. As long as you are keeping up with your responsibilities around the home and being the best father you can be, that GALing should be your #1 priority for you to detach.
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So yeah--put on the spew jacket and try and ignore her until more vets chime in here. It really sounds like she's trying to bait you or make you feel guilty for not being the perfect husband in the past, and hope that will cause you to back down, move out, and give her--what--75% custody of the children and the house?

Of course you could have done things better in the marriage.
But let's look at who is doing what NOW. She is breaking up the family. You are trying to keep it together.

Leaving her husband hardly qualifies for "Wife of the Year".
So do not let her push all the guilt onto you for whatever mistakes you might have made in the past.
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I don't recall all of your sitch, but did she repeatedly voice her discontent and/or suggest solutions to her unhappiness? Did you ignore or downplay her concerns?
Those things are all important to see where so much resentment is coming from on her end.

But many times, the LBS are just human. Not perfect, could have done things better, maybe were a$$hats from time to time. But usually the WAS is no saint, either.
You made mistakes, you'll keep from making the same ones in the future, right?

But today, she is spewing like crazy, sounds like.

So I would give her all the space she wants--but SHE needs to be the one to get it for herself. There is no need for you to hide in the bathroom because she doesn't want you around. If that's the case, she can go out, or go into another room.

Try not to respond to anything right now other than to validate what she says.
I would NOT repeat your case any more, that "she needs to give herself space", etc.

Just do what you would normally do and let HER take the actions SHE needs to take.

It's a boundary thing.
You're not supposed to try to control her or make her do anything, but she is trying to do that to you. She doesn't have that power. You don't need to explain it to her again.


The more you allow her to dredge up these subjects over and over and beat them to death, while berating you in the process for not doing what she wants, it weakens your position.

You have stated your case... now let it go.

If she complains, you can say something like: "The children and I are going to watch a movie here in the living room..." If she complains, simply say "You're free to do as you wish. This is what I am going to do."

Yes. She is going to call your assertiveness "pigheaded" and "stubborn". Because it's probably new for you (?)
As long as you are acting in accordance with your values, with compassion, and the best interests of yourself and your children at heart, then you are on the right track.

I'd plan on her increasing her spew as she realizes that she's not getting everything she wants.
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And--not to freak you out---but somebody else on here suggested she may well have OM waiting in the wings. Most women don't jump out of the marriage until they have something else to jump into. Especially if they're in a big hurry to do so.

So fasten your seatbelt for that possibility.

No need to respond to spewing texts, comments, emails, or anything else. If she communicates with you in a calm, reasonable way, you can engage with her as long as you're not repeating what you've already said. If it requires immediate action on your part.
Aside from that, I'd work hard on being pleasant but busy, busy, busy, being upbeat with your kids and your GALing, and not too interested in her at the moment! Shift your focus to something--anything else--for the next few days.

If your position is she is going to be the one to move out and you want 50/50 custody, then that's the price she pays for leaving the M. If you believe this is right, then stick to your guns.


Hang in there....

--(G)GGG

[zed]

Hey there, zed.


I also think it's perfectly fair for you to remain in YOUR house, at least for the time being. It sounds as though, if W really wants "space" she can go stay with her mother, right?

Yah her mother lives 15 min away. She can live there if she wants. But she says then the kids will have to move. I said the kids don't have to move they can stay with me.

You offered to buy another house and do what is called "Nesting" meaning the kids stay put and you and W alternate staying in the home with them. If you can afford it, what is wrong with this setup in your W's mind, do you think?

This is where the wife said she would not stay in the house anyway. She would now just stay at her mom's. So she wants me to do all the work to buy the house furnish it etc.

I don't recall all of your sitch, but did she repeatedly voice her discontent and/or suggest solutions to her unhappiness? Did you ignore or downplay her concerns?
Those things are all important to see where so much resentment is coming from on her end.

Yah she had depression issues before marriage. Issues with body image. First couple of years I spent a lot time reassuring her and try to help. But after awhile I felt I could not help anymore. I did not know what else to say. She started to go to therapy a bit. W mother suggested her go on anti-depressents. W did not want to and I felt same way and tried to support her in that.
Every 2-3 months she would be sitting crying. I did not know how to fix it anymore and I couldn't deal with it so I started to give her space. "It is what I would have wanted" A day later she would be better. So I thought she was better and was "just having a bad day". Then about a year and a half ago during her crying episodes she would mention "she was not happy" and that we should go to MC. I just chalked it up to her having another bad day. Because sometimes even a week after she would tell me how happy she was with our family. I know realize that she was always hurt and just trying to cheer herself up and put on a brave face.

But many times, the LBS are just human. Not perfect, could have done things better, maybe were a$$hats from time to time. But usually the WAS is no saint, either.
You made mistakes, you'll keep from making the same ones in the future, right?

You are absolutely right.

Thank GG. This is been really hard. I still really love my W. It is hard to think how much pain I must have caused to have her feel this strongly about me.

[zed]

Before GG replied I had already sent this email
I understand you are angry and frustrated. I know that we are not going to agree on everything and at the end we will both feel like we lost out. This is a hard situation. We each have our reasons why we don’t want to leave the house and that is hard.

Didn’t we agree on a parenting schedule last mediation? Still 9 and 5. Days or hours. It doesn’t matter. On days that I work away you have the house all to your self. And on days that I work around home it was 9 hours and 5 hours. Am I wrong on this? I just had to give you something like least 1 hours’ notice.
One of the things I had a question about is something like hockey practice and games. If I take the 2 big kids and you take Tay who’s parenting time is it? Or do we just rotate hockey practice and games.

As for financials. We really don’t need mediator if we want. Other people do it themselves. This is faster and would not cost any money. But for some reason I think you believe that I am hiding stuff from you. I would be more than willing to sit down and talk reasonably about our finances and assets. I believe we both forget what the each person has done and helped with over the last how many years. If you think I will take advantage of you or something you can have your mom or dad there if you feel better about that.
Let me know what you would like to do.

This is what she replied to it

First off, the 9:5 hour thing is retarded. The only reason I somewhat agreed to it was because the mediator was about to LOSE her mind and it was time to get out of there. It's so dumb. I want to be IN SEPARTE households. Right now I want to have a little interaction between us two as possible. According to the 9:5 hour ratio crap, I am living my life from hour to hour to convenience you - as per usual. I'm done living my life strictly around your work. The world does not revolve around you anymore. When we were married you didn't give me a choice - things are different now.

There is NO WAY I would ever agree to separate finances without professional help. Going through the mediator is a minimum (I have my doubts that even she knows how to sort out our mess)- I'm pretty sure this will end up with more intervention from a lawyer. It's just a matter of time.The minute you said you were going to try to take the house I knew there was no way we were going to agree. If I let you tell me what was going to be "fair" with the finances I would get [censored]. Guaranteed. I need to look out for my future. You have several ways to secure income - I have nothing at all. Totally starting from scratch with no guarantees of any kind. I don't know what you mean when you say "I believe we both forget what the each person has done and helped with over the last how many years." but if I gave you a chance to explain, I'm pretty sure I would flip my lid bc I am pretty sure YOU have forgotten how I have bent over backwards so that you could do whatever you wanted to get yourself to where WE are financially. I also don't think my mom and dad should be involved at this point for everyone's best interests. I would be willing to discuss it with my lawyer there, but that's about it. If you wanted to do that, I'm game. Also, there is no way in hell we are going to agree on spousal support. Guaranteed. I know for a fact you think I don't deserve anything and I am definitely not rolling over on that one.
Also, the only reason the 9:5 hour thing was brought up was bc you had no place to go when you were working around home. Now that we thought of the office trailer we shouldn't have to worry about that.

So I want to state a boundry saying that I will not reply to any more angry emails. Or should I just keep responding by validating and being strong but not being angry.
I want to tell her that she is the one not doing something we agreed to in mediation.
As for as meeting with her Lawyer. I feel I can do that. I feel confident in myself that I can keep calm and knowledge of the laws that shouldn't screw up to much. But I also want her to know that if she wants to keep spending money on a lawyer that she is the one paying for these added expenses with her part of the settlement.

Any more thoughts?

[zed]

Also is it wrong to feel comfort in how she is totally loosing it right now. For some reason I am really hurt but not mad. I don't feel revengeful for her words. I actually feel pretty calm right now.

[GoatGal]

Zed,

I am taking the liberty of re-posting sandi's advice on another thread that just popped up again on HPoirot's.

You should take this to heart because it's the truth. A painful truth, but you might as well swallow this bitter pill and get it over with.
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Sandi2:
"I can give you a few things to expect. Some may consider this as negative talk, but I see it as preparing you for the reality that will hit. these are just a few random thoughts that come to mind. No particular order, and there are many other things that could be added, but this will start you out.

- She will blame you for all of her unhappiness.
-She will make you out to be the bad guy by rewriting history or whatever she has to do to make herself look justified in having an A and ending the M.
-She will use you for whatever suits her need at that moment.
-She will play on your sympathy, and expect you to feel sorry for her.
-She has a bag of tricks, and will not hesitate in using them in order to accomplish what she wants. Guilt is one of her favorites.
-She will cling to old resentments from the past.
- She will have wide mood swings that are worse than any PMS you've ever witnessed.
-She will do something or say something a little nicer, that will completely throw you off balance.
-She will be deceptive, even when she doesn't have to be.
-She will not be logical. You cannot reason with her.
-She is not the girl you M.
-She does have her head in fantasy clouds. She has a fantasy about OM and their future together.
-She will not hear, nor does she want to listen to anything about working on the M.
-She will not trust your changes to be genuine or to last.
-She may kiss, hug, cuddle, or even have sex with you (depending on the woman), but it does not mean she has had a change of heart, or that it is a good sign of anything.
-She will want to continue some family activities and maintain her position (in name only) as the woman of the family. She does not want to be "replaced", although, she doesn't want you.
-She wants to do things with the family in her time frame and on her conditions, not yours.
-She does not have the best interest of you or her kids at the core of her decisions.
-She will show disrespect for you.
-She is addicted to the thrill of the A.
-She is capable of feeling some guilt, but not in the way you may think she should. She does not feel remorseful for her actions.
-She will probably get worse before getting better.
-She has to experience some kind of loss in order to get out of the fog.
-She cannot be rescued.
-She seems to be insensitive to your pain or the children hurting.
-She must face reality of what she's done.
-She can turn around, but it takes a long time.
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This specifically deals with a WAS in an affair, but it also applies to a WAW even when there is no OP present.
It's a mindset. You become the enemy and they need to justify their actions of leaving the marriage.

That's why it's so important not to believe anything they say. They don't tell the truth. And that's just the beginning.



---(G)GGG

[GoatGal]

OK. Just read that last bit.

First of all--STOP REPLYING TO THIS STUFF FROM HER.

She is being nasty now "It's retarded"? You have said what you have to say and now it's time to LET IT GO.

No more "explaining" or trying to point out that you mean no harm.
Clearly it hasn't worked yet.
She's got herself worked up and you need to de-escalate. Which means stop engaging.
Period.

Sounds to me that you've actually done some of the things she's wanted, like going the mediator, agreeing to work on the finances, but now she's not getting the results she wants so it's going to continue to spiral out of control here until one of you takes the reins and says: "Whoa!"
And that's not gonna be her.

She has said: "I WANT. I WANT..." She has stated her boundaries clearly and is expecting you to bend to her will.
You have stated yours.

Conversation over for the time being.

This is a lose:lose right now. She's gone into being disrespectful and going back on what you agreed to with the mediator because it's not what SHE "wants".

Well, life ain't fair. Just look at all of us on this board...

You are not responsible for her depression, for not being a therapist, or for her choice to leave the M. You do not have to "help" her, or rescue her from her own actions. If and when the time comes, you can bend over backwards to help her return to the M and to make yourself a better man.

But let's be clear: SHE chose this. There were other options available, if I'm not mistaken.
If it's not unfolding the way she'd anticipated, so it goes.

You continue to be strong and let her spin for awhile.

You don't need to be a jerk or be cold. Just refuse to discuss it further.
At least for several days.

You don't need to explain this any further other than to say: "We agreed on a plan at the mediator's. I'm through discussing it with you for now." And then just walk away and get busy doing something else.


---(G)GGG

[zed]

As suggested I will leave this for today and not give a reply. Maybe reply on Monday. As for now I have been invited to a birthday party. A lot of people I don't know. Usually would not go. But perfect time to meet new people.
Thanks GG for all your help. I always feel like I am so unsure of myself. I keep asking everyone if I'm doing the right thing. Maybe 1 day I will be able to say I did.

[GoatGal]

Zed... you will. It's a learning process and it's really hard for all of us at first.

Don't plan on responding to her on Monday, either.
Perhaps move past the idea that every time she communicates with you, you are obligated to respond.

Go to the party, meet some new people. Get your mind off things. Don't talk about your W--focus on other people and how you can get to know them.

I go places all the time by myself. I've met great people that way.

Have fun!


---(G)GGG

[zed]

I know GG suggested not to reply to any email. But I believe some of the parenting plan needs to be worked out. So this is what I was possibly going to send her on Monday.

The idea of talking was so that we don’t have to continue to spend money on mediator etc. I don’t know how talking with your lawyer will save any money as he will want to be paid as well. That being said I have thought about it and I am fine with meeting with your lawyer once if you think it will help get some of these issue’s resolved. But I will only do this if you agree that all these added expenses for your lawyer, getting a company assesment for amped, extra accounting fees for amped, etc. will be coming out of your part of the settlement. As I do not believe spending money on these are necessary.

I believe that the 9:5 hour thing would not be that bad if you gave it a try. But you are free to have your own opinion. As for the trailer it has merit however I would have to try to find someplace that has 30 amp power and sewer then winterize it when it was my time in the house. But I am not going to stay in the trailer for over 18 days a month. I would be willing to do this if we went to a 7 and 7. Otherwise I believe we should do the 9:5 as we decided in mediation.

Also what is your answer on the hockey/parenting plan question I asked you.

Anybody have any input. Should I send this or just leave it alone