KGirl - one year later

[KGirl]

Old thread is locked:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...291#Post2515291

Nothing else to say right now but wanted to be ready!

[labug]

Hmm... Bug, I'll have to think on your post on the driving thing some more. I thought about it the whole way home and all I could come up with was: sometimes that's the case, and sometimes it's not, and maybe the key is knowing when it is the case vs. isn't.

I agree, in part.

For example, I work at a university with college students, and a lot of what I do philosophically is about the educational experience, learning life lessons, and holding people accountable for their actions. A student emailed me last week about how she needed 4 very specific classes to graduate but three of them were closed, and wanted to know what I could do to get her into them. I looked at her history and she waited 3 weeks to enroll in classes from when she could have. Had she enrolled 3 weeks ago she would have gotten into all of them. This student has a pretty lengthy history of not doing things until the last minute, asking someone to fix it for her, someone will fix it, but then note "I told the student that in the future people wouldn't be so accommodating when she does not plan ahead." But, every time people accommodated her anyway. We talk a lot about setting students up for adult life after this, and this is in no way being helpful - you can't walk into your primary doctor's office and say "I would like to see the doctor today for my regular exam." Could I have tried to push to get this girl into some of those classes? Possibly. Am I going to? No, this is not something I should be spending my time on. Her failure to plan shouldn't constitute my emergency. But now she's furious and complaining to anyone who will listen that I won't help her. I don't know if that made sense, to summarize: isn't it sometimes appropriate and necessary to enforce consequences? One of my past supervisors said it very well: "In our job, we have the power to take away consequences for people... that doesn't mean we should do it often or regularly."

Absolutely it's necessary to enforce boundaries. The student in your story trampled a (blurry)boundary and expected no consequences. She'd actually been programmed to expect no consequences. Grace is sometimes good but it's no longer grace if it happens over and over. But here's the thing, there doesn't have to be blame and shame. She made a mistake, there are consequences. Done. Her complaining to others or continuing to ask for leniency isn't your problem.

She may learn something from this experience, she may not. Again, not your issue (yes, it may be but I think you get what I mean)

You had boundaries with your H, he continued to ignore those boundaries. You sometimes allowed him to ignore those boundaries. It's not that he's a bad person, or an idiot necessarily, he just doesn't have what it takes to be in a successful R with you (as defined by your needs and your boundaries)

You can blame him for not doing the work to stay married to you but that won't change anything. He can blame you for not being able to accept him just as he is. It's like a revolving door and I don't want you to get stuck there because at some point we have to get to forgiveness.

We're all brought to these life events by decisions we made along the way. Some were good, and some we knew at the time were a little shaky. I think we learn more by taking stock of those decisions and learning what we need to learn to improve our lives rather trying to pin blame on another person.

Does that help?

[labug]

I read this just today. It fits this discussion:
"We either use our limited stories about ourselves and others as grist for the mill to refine us, or we use it to fuel the fire of our despair and misery." Lynn Forrest

[KGirl]

Thank you, bug. Yes, that really does help. Looking back, there were various points where I made decisions, or didn't make decisions when maybe I should have, that lead to this. Hopefully things I can now recognize and not repeat. I think one of the things I said recently in terms of not wanting to repeat this was being with someone who loves me without me having to pressure them.. they want to be with me because they want to be with me. And, if they cross my boundaries, I need to be able to be firm and let them go, instead of thinking "well, I'm so desperate to keep this person I'll just let it slide, even though it's so upsetting to me" and then the distrust just builds and builds to the point where something has to give.

I am meeting H Sunday to sign the filing paperwork and pick up a few things at the house. I'm not sure what, if anything, I need to say. I kind of think nothing at this point. I said my piece on the phone a few weeks ago about how this is not what I want but I won't stand in his way. I don't need to repeat that, I also don't want to have friendly chit-chat. But just thinking about seeing him makes me anxious and puts a knot in my stomach/makes it hard to breathe. I haven't even seen him since.. August, I think? I'm pretty scared, to be honest. I just want this all to go away and be done and not have to see him or talk to him to do it. I suppose I could hire a lawyer to do that but I can't afford to pay someone hundreds of dollars an hour to take paperwork to get signed and photocopied - not being stressed is important but I think I'd rather be anxious and scared than spend thousands of dollars and go into debt. Sigh.

[Maybell]

Kgirl, you've been amazing beyond your years through this process. I'm sorry this is the place where you are but I think you have a tremendous future in front of you. Thank you so much for all the times you've been so kind and helpful. I hope Sunday goes well -- I'll be thinking of you!!!!

[KGirl]

Thanks, Maybell I kept secretly hoping that I would not be one of the ones that ended up D'ed, that I would totally be one of the ones who got back together, it would just take time (because, all those other times he came back, this would just be another one of those times, so I thought.) I guess it's still possible. But con't to hope that isn't really helpful - just makes it harder each time another step happens in that direction. I know people also say it's possible to R after D, but so far all the examples I've seen have involved kids where you have to regularly interact with each other. Hard to imagine that happening when we'll have 0 contact.

[Maybell]

The good news though is that I know a BUNCH of people who married & divorced in their twenties who ended up with very enviable lives by the time I knew them. Those people are all really grounded and firm in what they want, chose their partners very wisely, and have a much more generous attitude towards their spouses, children, and others than people like me who had it too easy early on and are having to learn these lessons later or after a longer, more eventful marriage. In a way you are set for life by having to go through this.

I hope that doesn't sound callous, because I know you're hurting. The silver lining is there, though and I really believe that your growth now will make your life amazing very, very soon.

Hugs to you, KGirl!!

[Lorelai]

Kgirl,

I too am marveled by your strength. I'm very sorry for what you're feeling, but like Maybell said you have a great future ahead of you! I know you're gong to be OK!

[labug]

Thank you, bug. Yes, that really does help. Looking back, there were various points where I made decisions, or didn't make decisions when maybe I should have, that lead to this. Hopefully things I can now recognize and not repeat. I think one of the things I said recently in terms of not wanting to repeat this was being with someone who loves me without me having to pressure them.. they want to be with me because they want to be with me. And, if they cross my boundaries, I need to be able to be firm and let them go, instead of thinking "well, I'm so desperate to keep this person I'll just let it slide, even though it's so upsetting to me" and then the distrust just builds and builds to the point where something has to give.

This is so strong!

You've come so far and it's been tough work. You've had to challenge a lot of your thinking but look where you are today.

You aren't a failure by any means, you're a survivor. And perhaps now you can step out and find the life you're really meant to be living.

Don't stop growing.

((( )))

[KGirl]

Thanks, everyone. Trying to keep those thoughts in mind on days like today where I feel like the opposite. Meeting H at the house later today to sign the filing paperwork and pick up a few things that I had left at the house. Feeling uncertain about whether this is the right thing to do, but not sure that the alternatives are any better. In my state you either file a joint petition to start the filing process (both parties sign, no one is served) or a single petition/summons (where one person has to sign but then the other has to go through the process of being served and then responding to it). It states in the instructions that you use the joint petition when both parties agree the marriage is irretrievably broken, and then I also have to sign and checking saying "this marriage is irretrievably broken." The alternative would be a petition that H would start/sign and then have to be served to me by a sheriff or someone similar. While I don't necessarily agree the marriage is irretrievably broken (maybe the exact terminology is a moot point? I do think there's no going back to what it was before), I also don't want to have to be served paperwork and fall under the "contested" divorce category, either. I had told H that if he was going to do this, I would agree to sign the joint petition but would not do any of the legwork (making copies, turning them in etc.) nor would I pay the filing or attorney fees to review it. Can I still feel personally that I don't agree with this and still sign the joint petition, and just do this as simply as possible from a legal aspect? Or am I going against my own values by doing so? I'm not sure. It's also interesting this is almost exactly (one day off) a year from when this all started - strangely fitting.

[gan]

I don't have a response to your questions above. I just wanted to stop by and wish you well today. All things considered you sound like you are in a strong place and I'm sure you will make the best decision for you.

[jim0987]

What's the downside to contested where you are?

[KGirl]

Jim- the main downside is this first step (the petition/summons). If it is a joint petition/ "uncontested", both of us sign it, and it's considered a joint action. If it is a single petition/"contested", then he is filing a lawsuit against me. I have to be served the paperwork, notify the court I have received it, and then file a response, saying I either agree or that I want the case dismissed (if I say I want it dismissed, it doesn't really matter, he can still move forward and they grant a divorce as long as one person wants it). After that, the steps/paperwork are the same for our situation. We agree on the property settlement/division so we would submit a settlement agreement - you can do that regardless of how the process starts. So really, the downside of not signing the joint petition is A) I'd have to be served (which could be embarassing.. what if a sheriff shows up at my work? and I'll have no idea when it might be coming), B) I have to do additional work to file/mail a response. Right now if I do a joint petition H will make the copies and submit them (so he says, at least. He wants this so I don't see a reason not to believe him).

[KGirl]

Even though it's not really a "joint" decision, filing jointly seems to make more sense, from a business standpoint. Less paperwork, less $ spent, less running around, less contention. I would rather have the business part go smoothly than hold it up because "it's not what I want." And really, at this point... how much do I really want to be married to someone who is moving forward with legally divorcing me?

[jim0987]

The whole legal divorce thing is something that i havent got my head round in terms of what is best to do.

if in the end the only difference is that saying it is joint will save you time, effort and money then its definitely worth considering especially if its no fault.

depending on the difference in paperwork and $ it the 'contested' route might sit more comfortably because it puts all of the emphasis on him and at the same time means you can stand by your principle of not wanting D. you dont have to argue against it and can just accept it but at least then it is him divorcing you (which it is)

in the scheme of things though im not sure whether this is a hill that really matters compared to the fact its what he says he wants in the first place.

[claire7]

(((K-Girl)))

[KGirl]

Oh, I did forget to mention that - we live in a no-fault, community property state, so the reasons why or who asks for it will have no bearing on any of the outcomes. In addition, because of the length of time we've been married, if we did contest things the court would look to restore each of us to what we had prior to the M rather than split things evenly (so I would very likely not get any support if our incomes were very disparate, for example - they aren't, so I'm not concerned about that).

[jim0987]

I might have missed it somewhere.

if either way its no fault and all the practicalities mean the joint decision is better for you then i'd guess thats the way to go - especially if it means he is going to do all the work.

Having said that there are many wiser than me who may have a different view.

[KGirl]

Well, off to meet H. I really don't want to go into the house so I'm bringing a clipboard so I can sign outside or in my car Fingers crossed he doesn't say something and I flip out (like.. "This is going to be expensive"..... well, you didn't want to "waste money" on books or counseling, so this should be better, right??)

[zew]

KG, I think it's all kind of moot.

If your state allows no fault, then contested/joint filing really doesn't matter much. Joint filing can move faster, at least here the court schedules those first. Also here, contested has a 6 month waiting period from file date. That can buy some time while the gravity of the whole thing sets in on spouse.

I proposed collaborative D to W, to take open marriage off the table (I cannot live like that). She responded with contested D. It will be much more expensive; another thing out of my control. So, ya, I can say "She started it!", but that is of no solace. Also, I think that 95% of D's end up being presented to the court as "joint" once you come to a settlement (regardless of how they were originally filed), because *nobody* wants to leave things in the hands of the judge.

Something to check - in my state you don't have to be served by a court officer. Spouse (or L) can mail you (your L) the complaint, and you just have to notarize receipt and file it with the court. You save the fee/embarrassment of sending the sheriff out.

depending on the difference in paperwork and $ it the 'contested' route might sit more comfortably because it puts all of the emphasis on him and at the same time means you can stand by your principle of not wanting D. you don't have to argue against it and can just accept it but at least then it is him divorcing you (which it is)

True, but as Jim says, what's that worth? You will always tell people that D was not what you wanted, regardless of the actual form/procedure.

And really, at this point... how much do I really want to be married to someone who is moving forward with legally divorcing me?

I think this sometimes too. But you and I both know that we might feel differently if our spouse rounded the corner and were genuinely ready to do the work. In some aspects, I am glad the D clock is ticking. If she doesn't figure herself out in the next few months, I know I'm ready to move on. So it's less a question of whether I want to be married to her, I do; but I am equally prepared for either outcome and ready for the decision to be made.

-Zew

[KGirl]

I went ahead and signed the paperwork. That was interesting and not really what I was anticipating.. at all... but I'm gonna type it all out and reflect on it later.

So I rang the doorbell, he invited me in, I stayed in the foyer and didn't go anywhere else. He gave me some mail. I gave him a sweatshirt from his sports team back in high school. He gave me a funny look and said "are you sure you don't want this?" Yep, very sure. He can give it to one of his sisters - they are all really into that sport. We took my stuff out to the car. He commented that my car was really cool. Darn right it is

Then I went back inside to sign the actual paperwork. That is where we got into conversation and I don't know if it was good or bad but... I should have stopped myself. He said "I'm really sorry. This is not how I wanted this to end up." So then I had to say "if that's the case.. then why is this how it's ending?" He basically then said he's already told me this, but that there were reasons, and that people don't change so doing counseling/talking about it/whatever wouldn't have done anything. Mainly that I always made him feel "guilty" and was too jealous, and then he felt like he could never do anything and at some point, felt like "why not do whatever she's accusing me of doing, because I'll get accused anyway?" His primary example was when he went to Las Vegas and I told him beforehand "you remember the rules, right?" Out of context that sounds bad. But the context was that for his bachelor party, he told me he had no interest in strip clubs/strippers and wasn't going to do it.. and then went and did it anyway. And when I asked why, he said "well you didn't say explicitly that I couldn't or that you wouldn't like it." So I felt like I had to be explicit from then on. It's this cycle we just couldn't end with each other, at least before, anyway, and he's sure it won't ever change. He also "Even if we did get back together, which isn't really an option, you would hold this over me forever and say I missed two Christmases and two birthdays... you'd never let it go." I said "Well, I guess you won't really have an opportunity to see that things could be different."

I think it was pretty ballsy of him to say that I accused him of things that weren't true, given how he fell for his coworker. He also reiterated that his other big issue is that he's only really been with/dated me and he has always wondered about other people and doesn't think he could ever be happy having just been with one person (so, doesn't that kind of give weight to all of my uneasiness I had about him in certain situations??) Not much I can do about that, I guess. He also said he felt like he acquised to me too much and "lost himself." I said if I could change it, I would, but I can't anymore, all I can do is move forward and try to be the best person I can be.

I noted there were things I wished I could have done differently, too, like enforced my boundaries .. he made a face at that like "what do you mean?" I gave an example of the EA he had w/ this girl online and how I didn't enforce the not talking to her after that and just let it go after he said I couldn't control who he talked to and he can be friends with whoever he wants. He said "Well, I don't really believe I needed to do that, anyway." I said that that was a problem and I want to be with someone who respects my boundaries (didn't say it was or wasn't him.. just "someone").

THEN... for your entertainment (and mine, I guess)..

H says "I was going to ask you something..but I probably shouldn't"
Me: We just talked about how being open and asking for what we want was a problem before.. why not tell me?
H: You're going to say no, anyway.
*I gave a bunch of somewhat ridiculous examples of things he knows I wouldn't do, and he smiled a bit.. then I just stood silently*
H: OK. I wanted to know if you wanted to have s*x one last time.
Me: Umm... well, I would give you a hug and a kiss. But I don't want to have sex with someone unless I'm in a relationship with them.
H: Well, we ARE still married..
Me: Unless you're willing to provide everything else that goes along with that.. then no.
H: I dressed up just for you.
*cue conversation about his new wardrobe, which included black skinny jeans...so not something he would wear before*
H: I would have had a surprise for you.. it's not a tattoo or anything..
Me: Did you get a piercing or something??
H: No. But I did some shaving.
Me: Umm.. ok... but you just said you were morally opposed to doing anything with anyone while you were married.. usually people don't do that kind of stuff unless they think someone will be down there to see it!
H: I know.. you were coming over.. so I thought it might be a possibility.

?!?!?!

How bad is it that I CONSIDERED IT?? You'd think after all this I wouldn't be attracted to the guy. I settled for a hug and a kiss... ok, 3 kisses. He said "If you change your mind, you know where to find me." I said "Same for you." I mean.. this was an issue in our M (he felt rejected too often) but given the circumstances.. sleeping with him would have just gotten my expectations up. Which I told him, and he said "yeah, I wouldn't want you to think anything of it.. it's just been a year now and it's been hard." I don't want to be someone's booty call.

I asked what was next.. he didn't know. He had the filing paperwork but doesn't know what the next steps are, hasn't put a deposit down on the attorney yet.

OK, go ahead and 2x4 me. I told myself no more R talk the last time we spoke. I am not doing a good DB job here. Can I count it a positive that I didn't have sex with him??

I'm still struggling with the idea of letting of things vs. learning from them. Is he right about me holding on to "trangressions" too much, and to what extent? Is it fair for me to have been distrustful at the level I was at? It's hard to say... it's like a chicken or the egg thing. We just kept feeding into each other (not trusting him --> him keeping more from me --> me distrusting him even more --> him keeping even MORE from me). Maybe this really is the only way to end it. I don't know.

[KGirl]

Forgot to add: One of his comments that seemed so bizarre to me was "It's been months.. and I've been OK.. so I think this is the right decision." OK?? Interesting way to make a decision.

[Georgiabelle]

K Girl,

I'm sure this was a difficult meeting for you and understandably so. You've been with your h a very long time and practically grew up (or one of you did:-) with him. I think you did fine. Really. There is nothing wrong with speaking from the heart with honesty and sincerity.

I have to admit I laughed out loud at your h saying he had a surprise for you and did you want to do the sexy times. He just had to toss that out there:-). I understand why it was difficult for you to say no. If I remember correctly, isn't he the only person you've ever been intimate with? That's a big deal. So I certainly understand how difficult it was for you not to consider the offer.

Hang in there! I think you are doing fantabulous!

[Pink17]

Dear young KGirl,

Even though I just made a big mistake of ending up in bed with H I think you respect yourself well.

You are much more then that and deserve much better then what he was offering you. You stood your ground and it a whole new definition of who you are now.

I may look very dark now, but I believe what Maybell said, that you are just 28 y old and have learned a lot more then what I am trying to grasp with almost 50.

Life gave you this opportunity to learn, grow emotionally and spiritually, you went up and down, you did many things in hope to same your M. Your merits are high and you will always fell proud of yourself for being who you are and even more for who you became.

My life took many different turns and I always needed to learn how to deal with each of them. Be patient with yourself, time is the only remedy for this kind of pain.

I have some friends that tough even about suicide, they tough life was over when they went through a D. But today, they say that they are better off. They found a lot of stuff inside themselves that otherwise they would never find.

Like many people say in this board, D is not the answer. You tried to do the hard work for your M, but your H wants to try life. In my opinion, these are the people that will try again and will fail again. They want the easy way out and they create these fantasy that it will be better with someone else.

Blaming you for his failures to fight for something so important as his M/R is just a sign of weaknesses and sooner or later he will learn that lesson. At that point you will be in a better life, in peace with yourself.

My H is doing just that. When things got difficult in his past, he blamed other people. At work, when things don't go his way then he blames everyone else. In our marriage he most blame my lack of affection. Even his R with his kids is not as good, they don't have much to talk about, then he blames that they are always busy with games and friends.

People that choose to blame others for their responsibility won't be happy, one day they need to face this gap on their personality.

You are doing good beautiful, give yourself a chance to cry, scream, bit the pillow, or even put a hammer on the wall. Let all your hurt out, eat a whole pot of ice cream, whatever makes this horrible feeling to get out of your chest and your brain.

Then wake up the next day and smell the coffee. Try to be upbeat, smile if you can, feel your freedom, dress well so you feel the power of being a new girl in the block.

We are all here for you, keep posting all your new adventures. You are a beautiful person and have a great future ahead.

((((((((((((((((((((((( KGirl )))))))))))))))))))))))

[KGirl]

GB - yes, it was only ever him. It's something that, like being D'ed, always carries with you and you can never get back (that was a pretty depressing sentence...) This is the person I lost my virginity to. It's hard to think about letting all that go and being with someone else in the future. Ack. I find myself wondering if maybe saying yes might have helped. I mean, it was tempting... he said it wouldn't have changed anything but who really knows? Double ack.

Pink - thank you for all your comments. There were several weeks (maybe even months?) at the beginning of this that I really thought my life was over. Suicide crossed my mind.. I don't know that I would have acted on it, but I did have thoughts like "I can't deal with this. I can't live like this." I think H recognizes that this is going to be a struggle for him. He said that he feels like he'll always be missing something no matter what he does or who he is with. If he ends up dating someone else he'll wonder what it would have been like to stay with me... etc. Not my problem to worry about, I guess.

I'm feeling torn. I feel like there is an opportunity here.. maybe? H had said some things I view as hesitation. He told me that we are really close and it's very comfortable and it's hard to imagine finding that with someone else again. He is obviously attracted to me. He likes talking to me and wants to spend time with me. The main hurdle is he thinks I can't change... well, and that he outright said he doesn't think HE will change, and I think there are some things that have to change (like his wandering "eyes"). I don't know if or what I can do. I worry that if I step off the NC wagon and initiate more conversation/being friendly that I'll get my expectations up and it won't mean anything. But it could also lead to something else. NC has gotten me nowhere. In fact, H has commented that we haven't talked in so long, so it's not like we're really in an R, anyway. I'm not sure what if anything I should do differently now.

We're texting now about various things. He first texted saying that I got makeup all over his shirt when we hugged, but it's OK 'cause he'll wear a coat to the store. I said "well if we hooked up, I would have gotten your hair messed up, then how would you have gone to the store?"
H: Easy - I would wear a hat ; )
Me: True.. touche.
And the conversation continues. Ugh. I don't know if this is what I want or what I should do. I want more than small talk but I don't know if small talk is the start to get me there. I'm tempted to say something like "why don't we try hanging out for a bit and see what happens? what have we got to lose?" :S :S

[KGirl]

I think I am reading wayy too much into the fact that he didn't sign the paperwork beforehand (and pointed that out to me). And then didn't sign it after I signed it. Boy. I am having a rough time tonight with this. It's been awhile since he's occupied my thoughts so much and I've been so distraught. A Sara Barielles song comes to mind: ".. you're neither friend nor foe, though I can't seem to let you go, the one thing that I still know is that you're keeping me down." He just texted me that the sweatshirt I brought him back smells like pumpkins and fall. I don't know if I can handle this if it doesn't go anywhere. I think I may be setting myself up for big-time disappointment here.

[Georgiabelle]

K Girl,

I bet you are dealing with a flood of thoughts and emotions. Just feel them and sit with them. No hurry:)

You will be fine!

[gan]

Deep breaths, KGirl. I think you did great. That exchange was near identical to my BD, minus the booty call request. You handled that especially well!

[labug]

Well, he's accurate that some people never change, he being one of those.

I hope you're feeling better today. About the continued text convo, you know that's a bit like jumping right back on his roller coaster. Only continue if you have no expectations.

((( )))

[Pink17]

KGirl,

I supposed you are very depressed right now. I would be devastated with all this tormenting situations.

My H comes in a house every day in the morning to pick up the kids. It's horrible, I have been hiding every morning because it's somewhat easier to just not see him.

I would say let yourself feel I the distress of the moment, give yourself a chance to be sad. It will allow you to get rid of all this a little faster.

At this time, you need to surround yourself with good girlfriends, things to do, maybe nice things you want to do that you have been postponing. And prepare yourself for more tough times that is coming ahead.

XMas and New Years are approaching and there will be setting backs, even some stomach ache. Try to make the most and don't be alone. Even when you feel that the best is to close the bedroom door and hide, don't let yourself go that path, force yourself to be among other people.

And by the way, what are your GAL activities. I have been trying very hard to get out there and do some things.

In regard of how much to talk to your H, maybe the vets here can say something better, but I would think if and when I get at this point in my M, I would feel some kind of freedom to talk to H. I would not pursue, because you will feel worse then you are feeling now. But if he goes after you, then be his friend.

At this point, even if it is killing you inside, show him you decide to live your life, you are OK with yourself. Try do not have any expectations with him, it would only bring more pain every time you hear him saying that your R is over.

But, I would keep the friendship. When I came to this forum, I read a story about a guy that helped his wife to move in with her new boyfriend. He kept the friendship, he was there for her. With time, her R with the OG started to deteriorate, as expected, and she found comfort and new person he was showing her. Result... they got back together because then they had nothing to lose and they had a better communication since they were friends.

Maybe that's why some couples get back together after the D, because there is nothing more to lose and feel free and you are yourself again.

25 mention in another sitch that two of her family members got together after D, and I know two friends that also got together after the D.

Just don't have your hopes high. Take good care after yourself and give yourself some space and time to process all the pain and discomfort that comes from the D.

I have been preparing myself in some ways and I know there will be nothing that will keep me from the pain. Keep in mind that many girls say that was the most horrible thing they went through but they survived and found peace at some point, and with time and patience they found a life again.

Hope you feel better. Keep in mind you are young, life will smile to you very, very soon.

We all love you a lot here, we are with you all the way, even without a face, you know someone out there is praying for you, cares for you and admire a beautiful person you have became.

Take care sunshine,

(((((((((((((((((((((( KGirl )))))))))))))))))))))))))
Pink

[KGirl]

Aaaargggghhh. No, I still feel pretty awful. Left work early. Having trouble making it through the day sorts of feelings. Seeing him and talking with him just threw me in this tailspin and I feel like I'm starting all over and am so desperate to have him back. Not feeling confident in being alone at all.

I feel like I saw some potential positives or hopeful things, like:
-he obviously finds me attractive still
-he likes spending time with me and talking to me
-he said it'd be hard to find something like we have again and it would take a really long time to know someone that well
-he said this wasn't how he wanted this to end up.

But then there were all the negatives:
-he said people don't change (but yet there were other times where he referenced that people can, like "what I've wanted has changed over time"?)
-he said that he can't be satisfied having only dated one person, he's always going to wonder what else is out there. I can't really do anything about that, unless I'm just so awesome he becomes uninterested in anything else...
-he expressed that he wasn't going to date or do anything physical with anyone while he was still married because he was morally opposed to it, but said it in a way like he was counting down the days until it could happen. Asked me things like "would you come up to me at a bar if I was wearing this jacket?"
-he outright said he wasn't going to change, didn't see a need.

So I start thinking about missing him and being attracted to him and 10+ years of memories and goals and experiences and I don't want to throw that all away. I really want to be able to forgive him and get past this and maybe have something new. But then all the anxieties creep in.. can I really believe him that there hasn't been someone else (I mean there was clearly an emotional thing with his coworker which hurts just as much)? That doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't been trying or scoping things out. He's been traveling a lot for work, who knows what he's been doing. There's so much lost time - I just don't know if I'm capable about not being jealous and anxious about what he's been doing the past 6+ months. Can I really accept him as he is if he doesn't change? I don't think so. Maybe he would change if he saw I could, but maybe not at all. And then I think this would be impossible. And it doesn't matter at all if he refuses to be open to the idea.

I guess this is why I can't talk to him or see him, and why it has to be "all" (or at least trying to make it work) or nothing. The friends thing will keep me on the roller coaster forever. It's like I can't talk to him or see him without getting into a conversation and him being flirty and me getting my hopes up. When we kissed he put his hands around my face and stroked my hair and said "don't cry.. you don't need to cry" and WHY can he do that and then say he wants to be with other people and leave me behind? I asked him if he was happier, then, without me. He didn't know.

[KGirl]

So no, I don't think I can talk or text without expectations that it could lead to something more. Obviously a year later I'm still not far enough away from it to be able to do that. It feels like an addiction - just a little bit won't be enough, I'm either in over my head or I need to quite him cold turkey and stay FAR AWAY.

[Pink17]

Don't do anything on the heat of the moment, obviously you are not in any condition to make decisions right now.

Take your time honey, rest a little bit. Give yourself a chance to be angry, sad.

The D is not easy to digest, but it is not the end of the story. As I understand, you just signed the D. COOL DOWN...a little bit and when you feel better, more reasonable; then think that until the D is definitive there is some things to do.

In my state even if the D is very agreeable it will take no less then 3 months to have it final and signed. And that is if one part doesn't contest anything.

So if it is the case in your state, you got some time to smooth things up.

While waiting for the D procedures, what could you think you would be willing to do?

*** One thing that helps me to put more in perspective about my H is to remember everything I didn't like about him. Like some times he said something mean to me and it hurts, or he ate a salad full of onions, or he just sat there, lazy all day and I was working my A** off.

Somehow my prince becomes an ugly frog.

So sweetie, give yourself a few days off, not H business at this point. When the hardest pain settles down, then start thinking again. Maybe some vet can came to the rescue and give some wise ideas...

We care about you... when are you going to start caring for yourself?

Gazillion Hugs
Pink

[Maybell]

KGirl, I'm sorry that was hard for you but I'm glad it was hard for him. you are amazing! I'm looking forward to watching your next chapters.

[vossy]

KGirl, you and I have such similar stories so I am always drawn to your thread, but I haven't been around in a while. When I read about your meet up to sign the papers, I see a glimmer of hope, although perhaps I shouldn't say that. I think you've done everything right at this point, and you've shown (him and yourself) you can be okay without him. And you ARE going to be okay. I think you've still both got a long road ahead, but your situation sort of strikes me as that "7 year itch" situation, where someone feels like by being married they are "sacrificing" some other potential life. Unfortunately, that [censored] and it hurts. But your H mgiht feel free now to go out there and pursue whatever "life" he feels he was missing, and he might soon find that there's nothing out there. Naturally, you may move on in the meantime, but you just never know..

I hope that actually makes sense but I'm a bit blurry today (literally.. my eye is really blurry, haha).

[TLEE86]

KGirl, I am so sorry you are going through this process but I am always amazed by the grace and class that you handle yourself with when dealing with your H. Even down to your...sex story...ha. I know there's no way I would have said no but that's probably not the right answer. I can't offer too much advice but the only thing I can see is that your H seems very torn between what he wants... He like you said is obviously still very attracted to you and enjoys talking to you, but like you've also mentioned there's a part of him that is simply wondering what else is out there. Unfortunately the only thing you can do is continuing to be the best you possible, which I think you are doing awesome at.

Once he starts exploring he will soon see that the grass is not greener on the other side, and he is losing the best thing that's ever happened to him.

I don't know if this is a stretch but it almost sounds like he respects you enough to not start looking around until you guys are officially divorced, like a lot of WAS Who start looking even while they're still married and that leads to A's. Let your husband run, he'll run outta string soon and I feel like he will soon come back to you once he realizes that there's really nothing else out there.

It's obviously up to you if you can handle communicating with him or not but by being the best you, you will present yourself always as the better option. Keep your head up and again I am really amazed by how well you handle yourself.

Just my thoughts

[KGirl]

Wow.. well thanks, everyone, because I sure don't feel like I'm doing a very good job right now! Opposite of detachment right here, if you want to see what that looks like. Feeling better now that I took the time to cook a dinner, that involved a lot of vegetable chopping. Focusing on the cooking part was helpful, and I felt better about not getting takeout/spending more money that I don't have.

Pink - yes, all I did was sign the filing petition (which he did not even sign before I got there and he had it printed weeks ago). After it's filed (H said he was going to do that Friday) it's a minimum 120 days before the final hearing.

Maybell - heh yes, it wasn't as simple as "here's your stuff and sign this." He was a little teary, he said several times he didn't want it to be like this. He wanted to model clothes for me and tell him what I thought of them and if the pants he bought were too tight because he had to take his friend shopping and he doesn't think his friend has good judgment. AND after all that he didn't get laid. Poor guy.

Vossy - that's pretty much how he laid it out. That by dating since high school he never got to see what else was "out there" and he always wonders if it'd be better or easier or happier with other women. He feels like he missed out on things because we were together (he seemed to say it was more than just dating other people, like missing out on "life"). I do think it's quite possible that he'll get out there and not be any happier, but he'll either be too stubborn and proud to say anything or I'll have moved on and not want anything to do with him, or both. It's hard to imagine being OK with him coming back down the line and saying "OK, I saw what was out there and experimented with that, but now I want you!" Eww.

Tlee- believe me, it was hard to say no. I pondered it in my head for a bit and it really put me on the spot. But ultimately, my standards are that I don't want that with someone I'm not in a relationship with, and clearly there is not one with him. I want it to be about love and respect and being comfortable and trusting someone and it's not any of those things with him right now. He says that due to his morals (I don't even know what to say about that, where were his morals other times?) that he won't do anything with anyone (date, sex, etc.) while we are still married.. but he could very well be out flirting with girls at bars or collecting phone numbers or who knows what that doesn't qualify for him as "immoral." I don't feel like I'm handling myself too well so thank you for the vote of confidence

[labug]

K, could you love your H and be M to him right now, just as he is?

Has he changed in ways that would make him a good partner during the S?

[paul19510]

K, could you love your H and be M to him right now, just as he is?

Has he changed in ways that would make him a good partner during the S?

this is a great question. Kgirl, you ARE growing and changing. We only know him from your words. Is H doing the work? Only YOU will be able to tell.

Also, you provided a small clue above about being happy. You cooked dinner and got involved with that. Can you find more experiences like that to help sooth yourself while this process unfolds?

(((Kgirl)))

[labug]

ed. Has he changed during the S in ways that would make him a good partner?

[KGirl]

We have had so little contact, I really don't know if I can say. If the few interactions we've had are indicative....then I have mixed feelings. He shows some remorse (I dont know if it's genuine or if it's more about his own guilt.) He says he wants to be more direct with requests and needs, which is good. But I haven't really seen anything that shows that he cares about others and is willing to listen to and respect their needs. In our convo it was clear that he still felt that some of the things I had concerns about in the past were unjustified.

But yet, my gut feels hopeful...

[Mozza]

KGirl - This will be no solace to you, but I'll say it anyway. If I was 28 with no kids and my W wanted to separate, I think I'd let it go. It seems like your H has issues that will make it almost impossible for him to have a healthy, long term relationship. I understand how strong the attachment can be, especially as he's been your only boyfriend. You now have the gift of time to look around, while he's finding himself. Put your focus on yourself and then other people.

You might be surprised and pleased to find that commitment is not a problem for some people, that they won't lie to you about stuff that's important. Also, as others have said, you'll enter this new relationship with a great deal of maturity, making it that much better.

Consider all your options.

[claire7]

KGirl... I'm so sorry you are in this situation, and I know how hard it is.

But there is a real chance that someday you will look back on this and think that you were given a true gift. When you first met your H, you were technically still a child. You are quite literally a different person now; you see the world in a different way, you see yourself in a different way. And, at least where I'm from, you are still quite young and have a whole bright future ahead of you.

Who knows... perhaps your paths will cross again. And if he comes back ready for a true commitment you can decide how you feel at that point.

But I have to say honestly... for your H to say now that he feels like he's missed out on something... before you've got kids and have been married for 20 years... is in many ways a blessing. He's right-- he's got some growing to do. Let him do that...and do your own as well... and focus on where you are headed.

((((K-Girl)))

[Calibri]

Hi KGirl,

I too am sorry you're in this situation. But I have to echo what Claire and Mozza have said. With H saying that he's missed out on something -- can you truly feel secure in a R, knowing that he's expressed that sentiment. He does have growing to do -- the best gift for him, and yourself, is to let him do it -- or not. That's up to him.

I can understand almost exactly where you're coming from. I've been with H a third of my life. He's been there for so many things, so many milestones. It's hard to imagine life without him.

You have to do what's best for you. Take time. None of this has to be decided upon today.

[KGirl]

Yes. You all are right. Time to let go. Do I still sense there's a connection there - definitely. But can he give me what I need in a relationship at this point - nope, unless there's a Christmas miracle (don't worry, not holding out hope for that). I think the escalation of commitment theory is hitting me big time: the more time we invest on something, the more we want to justify or keep working to make that thing work, even though if we stopped and looked at it only going forward (ignoring the time we already spent) it may not be the right decision or thing to do. While I'm relatively young, this is an 11+ year relationship. I know of some people that dated for a year or two, spent a year engaged, married for a year or two, then divorced... it just seems so short it's like it doesn't count. I need to do a better job of cutting my attachment to the time so far, and looking at what's happening today, and it's not good.

You all are also right that it will be very hard to trust him if he continues to feel and express that he's missing out on things. I think this is at the heart of why he felt like he was always "guilty until proven innocent" and why I was "too jealous" (his words). I don't think my feelings were unreasonable, but a fairly normal reaction to all of the doubt and questions he created. I found out about the chump lady website (and now I know what Maybell means by the pick-me dance!) and that kind of gave me a kick in the butt. He has shown zero interest in our relationship or making any changes. He still can't understand why I felt the way I felt in the past - he portrays a lot of entitlement ("I'm allowed to be attracted to people, it just happens" "Guys get to go to strip clubs" etc.) I'd be willing to move on "from this day forward" and not dwell on all that past stuff but he hasn't demonstrated any interest in acting differently, because he doesn't think he should have to.

[KGirl]

OK. I might be a complete and total idiot. But now I really need some help so I'm hoping y'all will help me even if I'm an idiot...

In a moment of weakness in thinking I saw some sort of potential, I emailed H yesterday, noting that I had been thinking a lot about our conversation from Sunday (I didn't want to admit it here because I felt dumb and was sure it would go nowhere). I explained that one of my biggest regrets was how I handled his trip to Las Vegas (which kind of was the beginning of the end), even little things like being guarded when he came home instead of being excited. I also went on to say that I don't want to be stuck in the past anymore, I spent too much time. What's done is done, it can't be changed, I would prefer to live in the present going forward. I made a joke about how I felt like the guy in front of Kiera Knightley's door in Love Actually with the signs and then saying "ok.. it's done," and "because it's Christmas", that I wanted to extend an invitation to dinner and just talk (not about our R or us, anything else) and see where it might take us. I specifically said this: "Maybe you'd be surprised. Maybe it's not a good idea because no matter what you'll still have things going on with you where it won't make any difference, or you have no interest in me besides friends. If part 2 is the case, just let me know and I won't ever bother you again. Maybe I'm just confused and misunderstanding everything but it seems like there's potential here."

This was his response:

"Your email made me smile with the Love Actually references and I appreciated your explanation of things. However, I don't want to lead you on or have you get any expectations, but I would be willing to meet for dinner. I'd be free Thursday evening if that works for you.

Let me know."

So... what do I do with that? I thought I made it clear in my email that if he really didn't want anything besides friends then no dinner (but maybe I wasn't clear enough). Do I clarify and reply back "Just to be clear.. if you really don't want anything to happen with us in the future besides friends, then I don't think dinner would be a good idea." Do I just do the dinner and see what happens? Am I being dumb by going "out of order" and not laying out boundaries and making sure he's 100% committed before hanging out with him in a fun way? Does he think this is just a friend dinner and not understand MY email? Or does he get it and while doesn't want to give my hopes up, also want to see where things might lead? Or does he just want to get laid?

Cr*p. I was sure he would say no and then I could just wash my hands of it and work on the letting him go part.

[TLEE86]

KGirl, breathe...

Just go to dinner. Have no expectations. Obviously look your best. Don't bring up the R or M, although I'm sure it will come up.

Just enjoy it for what it is, and remember what it's like to laugh with him again. Don't beg or plead, but just be YOU! Just being able to laugh with him and have a good time may make him rethink things himself..but again, be happy you get to see him and enjoy it for what it is

Just my opinion

[SunnyB]

Or does he just want to get laid?

^^^This^^^

KGirl, the way I see it, your H is leading you around by the nose. Because he can. He won't give you what you want, but wants to string you along anyway. And you let him. Give it up, let him go. If he actually decides he wants to give it another try, you won't have to guess. He'll say it plainly.

[KGirl]

Those are the two parts of my brain battling against each other, exactly! The:

"What have you got to lose? No contact hasn't gotten you anywhere. He may be second guessing himself after you signed the paperwork (that he didn't even sign himself!) According to DB we have to do 100% of the work to start with so isn't this just more of that work?"

vs.

"I've put myself out there a lot already. He needs to come back fully committed if he's going to come back. He's said over and over why he's unhappy and that he can't be happy unless he sees what's out there, so even if something did come of this who's to say it will last? I don't have any indication that he's willing to make any changes so I'm just accepting his crumbs by going to dinner."

[Mozza]

I've no final answer for you but a few thoughts.

I think his underwear is telling him to accept your invitation for dinner. I've had this kind of attraction for ex-GF where the available one suddenly becomes forbidden and it's a huge turn on.

I also don't think he's having second thoughts much. It's way too early. On the other hand, he might not be completely sick of you, like many WAS around here, so that's a start.

You'll have to decide where you put your energy. WAS are huge energy drains. They take over our work, relationships, sleep, etc. As I wrote before, there are other men out there that might be more worthy of your time and focus.

This being said, I don't expect WAS to come back fully committed at the outset. They'll have doubts or maybe they won't even be aware of their doubts. You can go there and just have the no-R talks that MWD recommends in her books. After all, this is how she recommends to reconnect. Be fun, look hot and say goodbye at the end of the evening. See if he initiates later.

[claire7]

I think I agree with mozza, But I'm not sure you sound like you can do this with no expectations.

Sounds like you threw your hail mary... and didn't get the result you were hoping for.

I know I'm saying this in a clunky way. .. I don't mean it to sound harsh. But my gut is telling me you haven't really let go. .. what do you think?

If he comes back, don't you want it to be obvious and very clear? He knows where to find you if he wants back in. I'm worried you are setting yourself up to be upset over this dinner. . Or what happens after. ..

I hope I'm making sense. It's really late here. .

[labug]

OK. I might be a complete and total idiot. But now I really need some help so I'm hoping y'all will help me even if I'm an idiot...

In a moment of weakness in thinking I saw some sort of potential, I emailed H yesterday, noting that I had been thinking a lot about our conversation from Sunday (I didn't want to admit it here because I felt dumb and was sure it would go nowhere). I explained that one of my biggest regrets was how I handled his trip to Las Vegas (which kind of was the beginning of the end), even little things like being guarded when he came home instead of being excited. I also went on to say that I don't want to be stuck in the past anymore, I spent too much time. What's done is done, it can't be changed, I would prefer to live in the present going forward. I made a joke about how I felt like the guy in front of Kiera Knightley's door in Love Actually with the signs and then saying "ok.. it's done," and "because it's Christmas", that I wanted to extend an invitation to dinner and just talk (not about our R or us, anything else) and see where it might take us. I specifically said this: "Maybe you'd be surprised. Maybe it's not a good idea because no matter what you'll still have things going on with you where it won't make any difference, or you have no interest in me besides friends. If part 2 is the case, just let me know and I won't ever bother you again. Maybe I'm just confused and misunderstanding everything but it seems like there's potential here."

This was his response:

"Your email made me smile with the Love Actually references and I appreciated your explanation of things. However, I don't want to lead you on or have you get any expectations, but I would be willing to meet for dinner. I'd be free Thursday evening if that works for you.

Let me know."

So... what do I do with that? I thought I made it clear in my email that if he really didn't want anything besides friends then no dinner (but maybe I wasn't clear enough). Do I clarify and reply back "Just to be clear.. if you really don't want anything to happen with us in the future besides friends, then I don't think dinner would be a good idea." Do I just do the dinner and see what happens? Am I being dumb by going "out of order" and not laying out boundaries and making sure he's 100% committed before hanging out with him in a fun way? Does he think this is just a friend dinner and not understand MY email? Or does he get it and while doesn't want to give my hopes up, also want to see where things might lead? Or does he just want to get laid?

Cr*p. I was sure he would say no and then I could just wash my hands of it and work on the letting him go part.

Just gonna mind read here-he thinks you want the sex.

Can you have a R that's purely sexual with him? If you can, go for it.

[paul19510]

Kgirl, I agree with bug. There was another person here last year whose WAS had sex with hermany times after he left. It was very confusing and hurtful. In the end her now XH sort of admitted it really didn't mean much to him and was more a biological/comforting activity than really ML and reconnecting. Ie just hooking up really. Look up a poster named Melissa from last year. If you go to dinner, don't allow yourself to sleep with him afterwards (unless you can do it just for pleasure and not feel hurt....which most of us here can't) .

You are young, strong and ready to take on the world. If he wants you make him work to earn you back. I don't think he will at this moment in time....go out and enjoy the life you have worked hard for. (((Kgirl)))

[labug]

Ahhhh Melissa...

[Georgiabelle]

K Girl,

Great advice from all and some insightful words from Paul. I don't think there is anything wrong with going to dinner-provided you can view it as dinner. Take it at face value.

I have the feeling that you are hoping for more. This is mindreading but i do want to say that I don't think your h has no feelings for you. He would literally have to be a robot not to feel things for you. However, that doesn't mean that he is capable of a healthy R.

I also don't get the impression that you could separate $ex from havin true meaning. Most men can and some women can ( I have no problem separating the two and I haven't been with many people either). You ultimately need to do what you feel is best, although I don't see anything different with him.

Good luck!

[Pink17]

KGirl,

Take it from what happen to me very recently. I went out for dinner with my H and we end up in bed. Although it was gentle and pretty romantic, afterwards I feel I made a mistake allowing that to happen. After that I asked H for time and space because I need it for myself.

Confusion sets in and it's not a good feeling. What you are feeling is perfectly normal, all the rejection you need to digest these days.

But here goes some questions for you to think about:

1.What you think to accomplish with this meeting w/XH?
2.Is this to show your 180s?
3.Are you trying to establish a friendly R with him?
4.Are you prepare for more rejection if it happen?
5.Do you have the desire for one more time intimacy with him?
6.If it happen to have sex, are you prepare to be just that?
7.Do you think he will read it as you are needy, lonely?
8.Do you want some more explanations of why the D happen to you both?
9.If so, do you have the right questions for him?
10.Is this decision out of hurt or out of well tough process?

We know your H by what you tell us here, so it's not so easy to tell if he would be appreciative and understanding with the fact that you are inviting him for dinner. The bottom line is that you know it is you asking him and I just hope you don't feel worse aftermath.

Be careful sunshine, sometimes silence says a lot more then a thousand words.

Will be praying you have wisdom to do the right thing and get to the other side a better you.

((((KGilr)))))
Pink

[stacey9]

You've had some great advice K-Girl.

I have to say in all honesty I would go to dinner and enjoy it. You can show him how awesome you are and what he's missing. But have no expectations whatsoever.

My H has totally and completely moved on. If he showed me a tiny sign that he wanted to meet with me sometime for dinner and a chat I would jump at the chance.

Good luck!

[rd500]

K girl. Please take care This is a dodgy one. Don't let your heart rule your head. ( or other parts) Take care

[labug]

Wow, mention sex and it really brings people out of the woodwork!

[KGirl]

Ha.. that or I just sounded desperate in my plea.

Lots to think about. It's kind of like I threw a hail mary expecting it to not work but at least I could say I left it all on the field... and then it worked, but it put the game into overtime instead of ending it..?? I had thought I was pretty far along on letting go. I had taken a ton of actions I wasn't ready to do earlier when I was holding out hope - purchasing some bigger ticket household items that H got in the property split, changing my address officially with USPS (which he got notifications about and pointed out to me when I saw him Sunday), cancelled a particular insurance he was on, changed my address with work. I was feeling pretty confident about being on the right path. Then we talked and something changed, I don't know what exactly, but he seemed reluctant and hesitant and regretful.

I've been thinking about this obvious gesture thing. I'm conflicted, because I feel like he's not the type of person to make a big grand gesture and wanting that is like wanting a cat to bark. It's something that I (emphasis on I) would like but is not really him and I have to decide if it's a deal breaker or not. I don't think I want it to be, it's not a hill worth dying on... I mean, I was kind of upset with him for awhile after we got engaged because it wasn't big enough or surprising enough. I need to be able to accept the small gestures. It brings to mind a post labug had where her H quietly put his ring back on one day, and she commented that the old labug would have been upset that there wasn't a big ceremony or something like that. Now she could appreciate it for what it was, even if it wasn't grand (or am I way off base in comparing these things?)

I don't want a purely sexual R. I have no intention of that happening if we do dinner. Sex would certainly have meaning for me and I'm not interested in doing it casually, so nope, not going there. I am not going to let my other parts or underwear or whatever rule there ; ) I consider this (and here is where maybe H and I differ, it's hard to tell based on this response) kind of like a first date. You don't know where it will go with the person, but you're checking it out. I could just as easily decide "nope, he's not what I want, still a jerk, at least I confirmed that." Or he could say "sorry, but I'm firm on my decision." Or maybe not. Who knows. So I don't *think* I have expectations, because I know the chances of this changing anything about the path before us are pretty low, but I do have a little hope that it *might*. Or maybe it will help me confirm that what I saw Sunday was just a temporary show to get me in bed and not real. I think I would rather take the opportunity and still having the same outcome (which would be sad, yes, but not anything worse than how it's already been), than to not take it and always wonder what might have happened if I had. I don't know, I'm still undecided. But I will certainly keep you updated if anything happens!

[Maybell]

Somewhere reading this last post of yours I got this image of you from a few months ago when you were frantic about the car and the cat and it just totally contrasted with the you who was writing today. It is really amazing the difference. You were a girl when you moved out and now you sound like a woman. I LOVE it.

Whatever you end up doing, just remember to keep your eye on the prize, which is You who has grown out of this experience. Be sure you treat that awesome lady the way she deserves.

And keep us posted.

[TLEE86]

How did the dinner go?

[KGirl]

Just got back. It was.. a dinner? And that's about it, I guess. But I'm ok. I'm not really sad, not crying, it wasn't anything in either direction.

We were at the restaurant for about two hours... just talked about a bunch of random things (friends, changes in our work, family, things we've been up to, etc.) I talked about some trips I've been on, some arts and crafts classes/projects I've been doing, etc. Besides work, apparently the main thing he's done is spend a ton of time with some game on his phone (whichever one Kate Upton is in the commercials for). He talked for like 15 min. about the game and showed me it on his phone... and told me he spent over $200 on it in less than a month. That is a LOT of money for what he makes. It kind of demonstrated that he's not ready to grow up yet. He apparently played it so much at Thanksgiving that his mom yelled at him for being on his phone all day and not spending time with family. So I felt like I made a good showing of my efforts to get out there and GAL. Him, not so much.

We had one business thing to talk about - I changed my address w/ USPS, but it's hard to say what they decide to do when there's mail addressed to BOTH of us, and they ended up actually forwarding our property tax bill to me instead. I gave it to him and asked him to let me know if there was a shortage from the escrow and I'd send him a check for the difference. He was kind of upset that it went to me.. but what am I supposed to do? Not much of a choice in the matter. He then said "I guess this is why it's important to get your name off of things."

We went out to our cars, and he said "So I was planning on filing the paperwork tomorrow morning, but work is kind of busy, so I don't know." Proceeded to say some things about how he didn't want to lead me on because there is a point one percent [0.1%] chance that he'd change his mind but figured it wouldn't hurt anything to go do dinner so that's why he agreed. And that this was all really hard, but he still didn't think anything would change from what he was unhappy about before. I made a joke from his favorite movie, Dumb and Dumber, and said the line " So you're telling me there's a chance?" (Jim Carrey says that after some girl tells him there's like a one in a million chance she'd go out with him). He said "well I guess but it's very very small."

So his comment about maybe filing the paperwork tomorrow seemed to say he's doing it but doesn't know when. Then as we're walking he said "I don't know, I might wait until I talk to my counselor in January. I'll let you know when or if I file." ??? Now it's an "if"? He sounds confused. He said he's had doubts this whole time but has been working hard to overcome those doubts so he can be confident in his decision, rather than looking into those doubts. Bleh. But you know what, I think that's it. That's enough from me at this point. I told him I wasn't going to reach out again, and to just let me know when he turns it in. We hugged and went to our cars.

So, meh, I dunno. Do I miss him? Yeah, I do. But I wasn't super impressed with some of what he said (between the phone game thing and then he said something about liking to watch "So You Think You Can Dance" and how there are cute girls on there.. hello, you are saying this TO MY FACE?) I don't know that anything's changed, but I looked good, I think I was my best self, and maybe that will leave him something to think about. Maybe it will percolate in his brain for awhile. But he's just really not worth my time and energy given what's up with him right now. I'm just still astonished about this f-ing phone game!! He sure better have the money to pay me for my part of the house, then. Maybe that is a part of me that is not going to change but I don't think I'm crazy for thinking it's unreasonable to be spending so much money on a video game... and he said he's going to keep buying stuff for it because it's worth it (because it "speeds up the game"). Maybe this is why women often date older men instead of ones that are the same age? ; )

[KGirl]

I did clean my bathroom just in case I ended up wanting to invite him over :S But nope, had no interest in doing that. And now I have a clean bathroom!

[Calibri]

Hey, I'd love to have a clean bathroom right now. ;-)

I'm glad you went to dinner and experienced what you experienced. Regardless of the outcome, I think it gave you the answers you were looking for.

And I have to agree with the addiction to the phone game. That's a bit much.

[KGirl]

Can I just say that there was a time where I contemplated spending $0.99 to move past a level on candy crush that I was really stuck on and he told me that was dumb and a waste of money??

He did pay for dinner, so I consider that a positive outcome - free dinner!

There were points where I could feel my anxiety start to rise and I was able to calm down. He was talking about how he's had to spend a lot of time in a city about an hour and a half away the past month or so to help someone in the company with a transfer thing, and it's like 2-3 days a week for several weeks in a row that he stays there. He was telling me a story about how they had some bottles of liquor in the hotel rooms and how it seemed the housekeeping people had stolen them. I started to think "why does he have alcohol? who is he drinking with? what's he doing?" and get anxious. Then I stopped and thought "You know, if I was out doing that with coworkers we'd probably be drinking too!" It's hard for me to not automatically assume something nefarious or hurtful (to me) is happening, but I think I can do it in time.

[paul19510]

Kgirl, sounds like a nice night and it sounds like you got some answers to those questions. I've spoken to my stbxw less and less. Each time I see how limitless she changed and how much I have. I wonder if we were on a blind date...would I ask her out a second time or just keep going. Sounds like you had that kind of time too....

[paul19510]

***little she has changed**** dang autofill...lol

[Mozza]

$200 on a phone game? Pathetic. At the game company, he's probably up there in the top list of suckers. On a PowerPoint, they have a slide called "You wouldn't believe how much people are willing to spend to speed up the game" and they get oohs and aaahs out of it.

I think your WAH did a lot of ridiculous things at this dinner and you did superbly. Talking about pretty girls on TV is one such thing. He was likely trying to get a reaction, perhaps getting you into bed. Psss.

You're in the right place, detaching. Seen from here, without any attachment to this guy, he doesn't seem like a winning ticket, while you show grace and maturity. I understand it's different in reality, but it's enough for me not to give you my usual pep talk about your chances and just to encourage you to get out there and at least see what kind of man there are. Know your options before you bet on this one again.

[claire7]

K-Girl, your strength, and growth over the last bunch of months is screaming through this post. You should feel so proud of yourself! I had my doubts about this dinner, but it sounds like you knocked it out of the park. You go girl.

(((K-girl)))

[KGirl]

I'm not sure why but for some reason his sex request sounds more appealing now...like it's on my mind and I'm tempted to accept :s even though I feel "meh" about him. Maybe feeling less into him makes it seem easier to do?? It's not something I want to do lightly but given his mindset...I don't want to get hurt. But the idea is intriguing. Particularly how he said he had "prepared" and I am pretty curious about that. He's never done that before. Argh.

[Maybell]

KGirl, what Mozza said.

You deserve a winning ticket.

[gan]

Don't venture down this path, KGirl. I'm pretty certain you would regret it later.

[claire7]

^^^ agreed.

[claire7]

Re read what you wrote on page 6 of this thread. That is your answer, I think.

[SunnyB]

I'm not sure why but for some reason his sex request sounds more appealing now...like it's on my mind and I'm tempted to accept :s even though I feel "meh" about him.

KGirl, read this again. Is the "meh" guy who you want to be having sex with? Don't you want to have sex with the guy who you have some excitement about? He's out there, go find him.

[labug]

I'm not sure why but for some reason his sex request sounds more appealing now...like it's on my mind and I'm tempted to accept :s even though I feel "meh" about him. Maybe feeling less into him makes it seem easier to do?? It's not something I want to do lightly but given his mindset...I don't want to get hurt. But the idea is intriguing. Particularly how he said he had "prepared" and I am pretty curious about that. He's never done that before. Argh.

Is it like the drug about which we say "just once more, then I'll quit"?

Codependency is sometimes called relationship addiction. You even said yourself that you it felt like addiction.

I'm not going to say not to, maybe you need to touch that hot stove one more time. If you do, protect yourself both physically and emotionally.

Take care of yourself.

[zew]

Kgirl, guy perspective here.

This lad needs to grow up a little. And he isn't going to move forward if he doesn't feel he's lost anything. And if you have sex with him, why would he think he has to change a thing?

He'll walk away thinking you're ok with the status quo. Knowing that, how does this move the ball forward? My goodness, you're 28! There is so much better out there for you.

[Card29]

KGirl, it's just my two cents, but I also think you would regret this. He is almost certainly doing this just to fulfill his physical urges. Unless you have the same urges and needs, with no implications for affection, real intimacy or commitment, I wouldn't do it.

Just do what is best for YOU. Only you know what that is. If you believe doing that would be a mistake, don't let a little curiosity (or a lingering desperation for the M) pull you in. And not only would it probably negatively affect you (shake up your detachment, possibly make you feel used), it sets a precedent in his mind, too: You are okay enough with this sitch to have sex with him, so everything is rosey in his mind. If you still ideally want the M to be reconciled, I don't think this is a stepping stone towards that, I think it's a barrier that would be built. Now he would not only have to want to restore your M, he would have to choose to give up a ~guy's dream~ (sarcasm), sex -commitment +individual freedom. I say that sarcastically because I don't personally share that dream, but some guys, especially those going through a crisis like your H, do consider that ideal. And you would be giving it to him. Do not expect him to suggest MC when it's over.

[Card29]

Zew, you beat me to it! You said the exact same thing as I was typing my own comment. There you go, KGirl, a consensus from the DB Guy's perspective

[Calibri]

Kgirl, guy perspective here.

This lad needs to grow up a little. And he isn't going to move forward if he doesn't feel he's lost anything. And if you have sex with him, why would he think he has to change a thing?

He'll walk away thinking you're ok with the status quo. Knowing that, how does this move the ball forward? My goodness, you're 28! There is so much better out there for you.

Agreed. If he's shown you little (if any) change, and you have sex with him -- what's going to change?? IMO, he's told you that he's not going to do anything. He threw out a booty call. Not "let's work on this" - a booty call.

Obviously, you have to do what you feel is best -- but I can't help but say run the other way. IMO (again), it sends the wrong message to him. That he can do whatever he wants -- and you're ok with it -- enough to sleep with him. No. No. No.

[KGirl]

Noted, all! I think my "other parts" were speaking a little too loudly in the middle of the night last night If this was a first date I'd be thinking "hmm.. he didn't seem that interested in me.. and he seems a little too into video games. Maybe I'll wait and see if he asks me out again." Honestly, the game thing is a huge red flag to me of things not changing for him. He has identified himself as an "addictive personality," and it goes back for as long as I've known him. In college and high school, it was online poker (like at the level of being up until 3am and not studying). After college it became video games. Then fantasy sports (multiple leagues, for almost every sport you can do fantasy sports for. I forget what he said last about how many leagues he's in for football alone.. 9?? And he managed 2 or 3 of them. It got to the point where we had friends over and he forgot he had a draft.. instead of putting it on auto-pick, he left me to entertain our friends and went to his computer for 3 hours to do the draft.) Then it was club soccer for awhile. Now it's stuff with his iphone. He just gets all consumed by these activities. I don't think that's what I want in a partner anymore. I want someone who can do lots of different things and their schedule doesn't revolve around some sort of online activity or game. Who actually has time to spend with me on the weeknights. Who isn't glued to their phone or computer. I did not hear from him today so I'm guessing he did not file the paperwork.

On the bright side, I have super great coworkers who planned a surprise "party" for me for my birthday (which is Sunday but no one will be around on Monday), complete with a balloon delivery, cake, and ice cream! Just the thing I needed before winter break starts.

[zew]

sounds more like "addicted personality".

I don't know KGirl, none of us can tell you how to live, and it's likely not helpful for me to say this, but if I were 28 with no kids, I'd be half way across the country by now, missing out on this wonderful opportunity for self improvement that my W has given me.

Kudos to you; you must be in this for what you are getting out of it in terms of self improvement. Or, you recall a time when your H was at his best, and he didn't have all these issues, and you truly believe he will aspire to that again.

[KGirl]

There were better times, and I think that may be in there somewhere... maybe he'll aspire to that again, maybe he won't, I don't know. I also took my marriage vows very seriously. We were together for a long time. I pretty much did the exact opposite of being halfway across the country - I moved to an apartment less than a mile away I like this area and the stores and things to do, it's convenient for getting to work, and I wasn't going to let the fact that he's still here stop me from staying.

H and I agreed he'd come to my parking lot for me to sign our escrow check on his way out of town... at 8:30am. On a Saturday. No way I'm getting dressed and showered for this and looking my best! He'll just have to see me in a hat and sweatpants like he's seen me on many other weekends in the past

[KGirl]

I just realized WHY he's going out of town - his extended family Christmas is today. A little sad but I'm not really that sad. On the positive side, I don't have to listen to all the drama and gossip that usually goes on. Last year H said I was "sick." I'm guessing this year if people don't already know, the truth will come up. Sick two years in a row would be quite a coincidence!

[Pink17]

Hi KGirl,

I am sorry you are going through this whole situation. As much as I think I am detaching from my H, every time it comes to talk about D, my stomach hurts and I feel really sad.

Sometimes I even wonder why, if there is a lot of things I also did not like in my M.

I think you are doing great for such major event in your life, it seems easy to think that you can just go out there and find a perfect match. Well, we say that the WAS is having some fantasies in their minds and that the grass is not always green on the other side of the fence. It is for us too, it hard to go out there and be open for another R.

To tell the truth, I been out dancing, and didn't want to even talk to a guy. I felt like betraying my H, or worse, felt a little disgusted about other man. I don't know maybe it is time that will allow to see again.

But, contrary then many of us, you are out baby, and being young has some benefits. You also don't have children and that is a lot too. Give yourself time to recover and when you feel you can try again then you will.

One thing is for sure, you should be very proud of yourself, at least we all are. The way you handle this whole situation was grace is a lot for someone at your age. Congrats girl!

In my opinion I would think that you really need to concentrate all your efforts on yourself now. Your H is determined to do whatever he put in his mind, and I think that maybe you continue to move on as you are doing, then he may question if it is the right decision.

Somehow we value what we lose.

Hope things get better and better for you and you find some peace inside your heart.

Hugs
Pink

[KGirl]

Thanks, pink. I hear you on the "why are we still here if there were a lot of things that were frustrating about our M?" I remember in September 2013 (couple of months before BD) writing H a very difficult email, that I never sent, stating that I was unhappy with several things (lack of openness, preferring to spend time with friends than with me and how he'd openly say he'd rather hang out with them, as a few examples) and how if he couldn't make some changes, I didn't know if this would work long-term. Funny how after BD I forgot I was that unhappy at one point and thought our M was so awesome and how dare he leave it??

I know there are other people out there I could have a future with. It's hard to let go of the comfort and knowledge you have of someone after knowing them for so long.. it will take several years to get to that point again. I can think of two or three people off the top of my head who have told me before "if things don't work out with H... let me know." So I must be somewhat attractive (we'll go with "cute") and interesting and likeable Those particular people are married now so I will not be letting them know, but there's got to be more out there! I don't feel comfortable dating (or that I'll attract the right type of people) until I am D'ed, which is going to be beginning of May at the earliest now, if H actually files in early January. Still nothing from him.. it would be pretty DB-y (the other DB) of him to let me know today that he did it on Friday, given what today is (below).

Because of our more recent interactions I keep finding myself looking to my phone for a text or an email from him... grrr. Need to find more things to do, I guess. I have this week off for work and no real plans except for today and then Christmas day so I need to get creative, or perhaps make a day trip somewhere. Today is my birthday and I'm looking forward to all the messages and facebook posts - the ones so far have been pretty great. One of my closest friends, who is moving back to my state in January, said "you've been to h*ll and back this year, but still managed to handle it all with grace, poise, strength, and courage." I wonder if I'll get any messages from H. Last year to my confusion he actually gave me a gift that he ordered after BD O_o so who knows.

[labug]

What's one thing you're going to do in the New Year that's just about you?

Take a dance class?

Learn to make cheese?(Wisc girl)

Codependents Anonymous?

Join a discussion group?

Book discussion group?

[KGirl]

I would like to go on some sort of trip even if it's just a weekend. Not sure where yet. I will be going to Sanibel Island, FL for spring break with my mom and sisters so that should be fun but would also like to do something else on my own. There is a spa resort about a hour away I thought about going to this week but now I am helping a friend with wedding dress shopping so... maybe in January sometime? A year-round heated outdoor soaking pool sounds nice in January if I don't freeze into/out of it My friends had a book group but it kind of fell by the wayside... maybe we can start that again. I have thought about some type of support group, either CA or a divorce support group (maybe that's not enough about myself, though?) We do have quite a few non-credit con't education courses where I work, and I took a couple this fall, so more in spring would be fun. I have some crocheting projects from college (!!) that I never finished - that might be fun to get back into. And.. in high school I played the flute and was very good. Went back home in the summers and played for the municipal band. Haven't played in years, though. Maybe I've still got some skills left.

For today, I'll focus on watching the packers, and getting ready for my night out for my b-day Sister and I are doing dinner and then afterwards I sent a very open and large invitation to almost everyone I know who lives here to meet up for drinks in the bar part. Looking forward to seeing who comes and if nothing else I know I won't be alone because my sis is my designated driver

[Georgiabelle]

Just practice your discount double check dance today. Sanibel Island is lovely:-)

[Card29]

KGirl...the Packers? I think I know what needs to go to the top of your 180 list

[KGirl]

Card, they're America's team now, c'mon! Badgers, Packers, Brewers, in that order. Bucks I guess I'll take if I have to root for a basketball team ; )

[Pink17]

KGirl,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU SUNSHINE!

You sound like a really fun girl to hang with. I would love to join you for a celebration. Well, my thoughts will be with you.

Have fun, lots of it. Be careful you don't drink too much. The pain is still there and is very easy to get into the bottle to get a little freedom from the bad feelings. Been there, done that.

Don't worry about dating, other guys, etc. time needs to go by and when you are ready, you will know.

Your GAL activities are very good. Keeping busy.

Again, have a wonderful BDay, you deserve.

FELIZ ANIVERSARIO!
Pink

[claire7]

Happy birthday K-girl!!

[Georgiabelle]

Happy Birthday! I hope this year will be filled with hope, love and prosperity. December birthdays rule (said fellow December birthday celebrationist-and no, I don't think that's a word:)

Enjoy!

[Card29]

Card, they're America's team now, c'mon! Badgers, Packers, Brewers, in that order. Bucks I guess I'll take if I have to root for a basketball team ; )

gah, no denying that I guess.

Aside: do you watch Parks and Rec? If not, this might be your favorite 9 seconds of the series: no, badgers

[KGirl]

Aww.. thanks, everyone! I'm actually having a tough time with how this day way went, I'm not sure if it's my lack of communication, or other people's attention to detail. I sent a bunch of people a facebook message saying that I'd be at X place at 7pm until about 9ish, "for drinks and hanging out." X place is a restaurant/bar and it's pretty equally split between eating and drinking. I didn't want to try to arrange an actual dinner because of their reservation policy and needing an exact number and everyone to be there at the same time, so was eating dinner w/ my sister at 6pm, then thinking I'd meet everyone in the bar part at 7pm. I thought that saying "drinks and hanging out" was clear enough that we weren't doing a sit down dinner. Well, my sister was late picking me up, we were just finishing at 7pm, and then two couples show up and say "oh, I thought we were eating dinner at 7?" So it was kind of an awkward evening because they had to get a different table and eat dinner (when my intention was just for us to hang out in the bar area and get drinks), then we joined up once everyone got their food at a bigger table and had drinks. Sigh... maybe I was clear enough and they didn't clarify. A different person did message me in advance and say "are we doing dinner, or just drinks?" so it seems I was confusing. Boo. Oh well. 4 beers in and I guess I don't care too much though I'll probably feel bad in the morning.

H's family (two sisters, nieces, nephew, and mom) sent me a happy birthday snapchat but unfortunately I didn't realize what it was, clicked on it when I was talking with others, and missed most of it!

[KGirl]

Sooo then I just had to text H and explain what happened and ask what he thought about it, and we had some back and forth about how some of these particular friends tend to assume things and aren't very good at reading details. I have not-so-good self control in the area of not contacting H lately, apparently, but am not sure yet how to remedy it. Then after I text something he texts back "That's good, and good night." Now I feel totally shot down.. I know I shouldn't.. because it's 10:40pm here and he probably has to work tomorrow.. but ugh.. I feel like I've been there for him when it's been important to him and now he's not. I'm feeling this moreso today because of all the recent contact we had, plus it's my birthday, plus the 1 year into BD brings up a lot of memories of when this started last X-mas time, plus it's the holidays. Oh yeah, and those drinks. Must institute calendar and be be strict about no contact for some set period of time!

[KGirl]

LOL Card - that is a regularly shared clip amongst my facebook friends. And yes, I DID go there for undergrad and grad school.. and I work there so it's a triple whammy.

[labug]

I would like to go on some sort of trip even if it's just a weekend. Not sure where yet. I will be going to Sanibel Island, FL for spring break with my mom and sisters so that should be fun but would also like to do something else on my own. There is a spa resort about a hour away I thought about going to this week but now I am helping a friend with wedding dress shopping so... maybe in January sometime? A year-round heated outdoor soaking pool sounds nice in January if I don't freeze into/out of it My friends had a book group but it kind of fell by the wayside... maybe we can start that again. I have thought about some type of support group, either CA or a divorce support group (maybe that's not enough about myself, though?) We do have quite a few non-credit con't education courses where I work, and I took a couple this fall, so more in spring would be fun. I have some crocheting projects from college (!!) that I never finished - that might be fun to get back into. And.. in high school I played the flute and was very good. Went back home in the summers and played for the municipal band. Haven't played in years, though. Maybe I've still got some skills left.

For today, I'll focus on watching the packers, and getting ready for my night out for my b-day Sister and I are doing dinner and then afterwards I sent a very open and large invitation to almost everyone I know who lives here to meet up for drinks in the bar part. Looking forward to seeing who comes and if nothing else I know I won't be alone because my sis is my designated driver

I forgot to tell you Happy Birthday!

Also, I was trying to think of activities that got you in new situations with new people, male and female. Crocheting is great but it's pretty insular.

Check out some volunteer opportunities.

[labug]

Aww.. thanks, everyone! I'm actually having a tough time with how this day way went, I'm not sure if it's my lack of communication, or other people's attention to detail. I sent a bunch of people a facebook message saying that I'd be at X place at 7pm until about 9ish, "for drinks and hanging out." X place is a restaurant/bar and it's pretty equally split between eating and drinking. I didn't want to try to arrange an actual dinner because of their reservation policy and needing an exact number and everyone to be there at the same time, so was eating dinner w/ my sister at 6pm, then thinking I'd meet everyone in the bar part at 7pm. I thought that saying "drinks and hanging out" was clear enough that we weren't doing a sit down dinner. Well, my sister was late picking me up, we were just finishing at 7pm, and then two couples show up and say "oh, I thought we were eating dinner at 7?" So it was kind of an awkward evening because they had to get a different table and eat dinner (when my intention was just for us to hang out in the bar area and get drinks), then we joined up once everyone got their food at a bigger table and had drinks. Sigh... maybe I was clear enough and they didn't clarify. A different person did message me in advance and say "are we doing dinner, or just drinks?" so it seems I was confusing. Boo. Oh well. 4 beers in and I guess I don't care too much though I'll probably feel bad in the morning.

H's family (two sisters, nieces, nephew, and mom) sent me a happy birthday snapchat but unfortunately I didn't realize what it was, clicked on it when I was talking with others, and missed most of it!

You're not responsible for other people and their choices.

It turned out fine, right?

[KGirl]

It did turn out OK, I think (my friends seemed perturbed but they will eventually forget about it). When we were there a different friend (the one who had explicitly asked beforehand what the plans were) said something like "people are here and at least they showed up, so that's good! Who cares if they're eating or what time or whatever." And she was just totally nonchalant about it and really felt like it didn't matter. I really don't know how some people can have that attitude... and I can't... I instead get really anxious about it and feeling badly that I screwed things up. How do I get there?? Maybe now that I'm a year older it will come more easily The people who I well who are more laid-back and less stressed about things are quite a bit older than me.

Good call on the crocheting! I struggle with trying to find things to do on my downtime that are people-oriented just because my job is so people-oriented, and as an introvert sometimes I need some time to recharge on my own. Being surrounded by more people is not at the top of my interest list but I could push myself to do that. Challenge is finding something more useful or meaningful when doing that (and not spending so much time on the internet or watching tv).

[Pink17]

Hi KGirl,

You can't and you probably don't want to go that path of controlling again. Lose it for good. You have been learning some stuff here, so used the knowledge to your benefit. Don't be anxious that you can't control, instead just let go and don't be anxious at all.

I know it is not easy, but I think you need to work on detaching in a very serious way now. It will make you feel better and you will be able to manage your life for yourself to enjoy it.

For me, it is hard do not call, text or contact my H in anyway. I don't even know why. I think about him, get all the ups and downs when I see or talk to him, but I refuse to go after him.

I am not the one the checked out of the M, he is. So, if he wants to find me he knows where.

And, at the beginning of my sitch I was struggling with GAL activities, balance and self steam, but as time went by I feel better every day. My mentor is Labug, I love her way of seeing life and the choices she made when she was where we are now.

It has helped me and is helping me to look up to someone that manage to survive all the drama. And she even got the big prize.

Just and idea: Maybe you want to go back and do another GAL list. Review your goal as in your new situation now.

And try to detach as much as you can. It helps you the most and maybe will help your sitch. Believe me, the more you transform, the more attractive you become, and eventually your H will know about.

Don't worry about him, he will need to fight his own demons for awhile, then routine will set in again and he may end up empty, what is the case most of the time when you are looking to tackle the world of adventures.

Take good care after yourself, you are the most important right now.

Hugs!
Pink

[Card29]

KGirl, it will just take practice and time. I don't think it will come about naturally with age, but I think the hardest part is what you just did: Identify your weakness. To me, if you posted "Meet at 7:00 for drinks and hanging out", that is plenty clear enough that you're just hanging out. That is where your responsibility ended, to clearly (enough) communicate the plan since you were arranging it. And even if you flubbed something in the invite (wrong time, location, etc.), as labug said, you're not responsible for other people's choices, and especially not their emotions. So they couldn't have ordered some finger food and ate at the bar? Or even order a sit-down plate of food and eat at the bar while everyone is around? There were plenty of healthier options for them other than pouting and straying from the group.

Maybe you can agree with that, but then the question is how do you become okay with it in the moment, next time something like that happens? I feel like there are wiser people here who could give better advice. But it seems like it simply takes time, introspection, working towards responsibility for your own actions and emotions and working away from feeling responsible for other people's emotions.

It sounded like a great time!

[Mozza]

KGirl - I've a slightly different take. I think the 7 pm time is what caused the confusion. Several people were confused, so it's worth considering that it's not about "taking responsibility for other people's choices" but about learning and getting better at organizing these events. I know I've gotten better over time.

One thing that I do better is to have an ironclad plan. My message would now include a mention that there will be no dinner. Also, I would confirm on the side with a few close friends and say "5-6 of us will be having drinks after dinner at X". This will create momentum. Another solution is to pick a place with better reservation policy that accommodates your type of event.

No need to stress about it. Live and learn. We all do.

[KGirl]

Certainly things I could improve up on in the future. I've been reluctant to plan events or even have people over because I'm always worried something will go wrong (and I really shouldn't be.. I'm generally speaking a very detail-oriented person), so this has kind of set me back in the confidence department. I'll start a new thread with the rest of my thoughts!

[Card29]

Was it really that bad? I guess I just get the impression that a couple of people were a little perturbed, but generally it was a success. Is that not how you feel?

[KGirl]

Well... 7 people in all came. 2 were my sister and fiance, who were 15 min late picking up to go to dinner which threw everything off (so we were still in a booth eating at 7 when I wanted to be in the bar area to greet people when they came in). 4 other people came in at 7 and saw we were eating and expressed confusion about how we were starting at 7, and I said "oh, I'm sorry, we were supposed to be done eating by now and hang out at the bar, we'll be done in a few minutes!" and they said "well we thought we were eating so we'll get a table and eat." And then one other person showed up at 7 but knew we were not eating. So most of them were perturbed :S then it got confusing because when I was done eating, we got up and stood around the table the others were at, which made the waitstaff cranky and they asked us if we could move to a different, bigger table. So then the other 4 people had to move all their food and whatnot to another table. Not the greatest birthday event. I think the time did throw people - one of the couples said "well, it's 7 o'clock so we assumed we'd be eating?" I usually eat dinner much earlier so didn't think of it.

[Card29]

I see. Live and learn, I guess. Don't let it stop you from organizing something else in the near future if you feel inclined! That would be the real tragedy. On to your new thread now