My dear wife of six years (together nearly 10) is having an EA and +PA with her boss (unclear how far they have gone). Suspected something was happening a few months ago, when she STOPPED talking about her boss, she always loved to talk about how 'great' he was. They had some issue at work where he stopped her from leaving their branch for a better job (career blocking) and it sounds like their friendship crossed the line sometime around then, in October. I began checking her phone and they were sending inappropriate text messages. She caught me looking on Nov 11, I confronted her, she admitted to the EA. She said she was sorry, did not cry that much, and I (of course) said things to her that I should not have said, “you are a home wrecker” (OM is father of two + married) “you’re risking your career” and “you are not thinking about your home and family” (we have an amazing 2.5 YO daughter). I was angry and upset. To my surprise she said she “didn’t know what to do”. She was very unhappy in our marriage.
We immediately started seeing a marriage councilor. We came to agreements, she would continue to work there but STOP the EA (or whatever it really is) even though I said it was a bad idea (to continue working there). She would tell the OM she was stopping. She was not committing to our marriage but was going to “try” and work on it (which know what I know now seems crazy to be okay with). We would make more time together and continue counseling once a week. I quickly took on responsibility for how she was feeling in the marriage and apologized during our first two sessions.
For about a week we had our ups and downs but there were some signs of improvement from her (almost no time on phone). We met with our priest. I met with another (older) couple from church for guidance. Less than two weeks later, after we spent a GREAT (most of) day together preparing for T-Giving, she said she had a work dinner to attend, which she had previously cancelled. I took care of our daughter that night and, she attended the “dinner” and then came home before eleven PM, and got into bed with me.
The following morning, she woke up and rolled over onto to me and held me, which she had not done in a long time. It made me feel positive. We had friends over to the house that night (party day before T-Giving) and as she began to drink, she would stare at me from across our kitchen. At first I thought it was “bedroom” eyes (we had been having sex right up to the confrontation but not since -- had been telling her I was hoping to be intimate again with her so would not loose that). However, the more she looked at me, the she seemed to be mad at me, like she had something to tell me. That night / morning (T-Giving day) I awoke her at 3 AM and asked her where she was the previous night. She told me she was with the OM. She also told me that they weren’t just hugging, but “making out” in his car and gestured to her chest when I asked her where he’s touched her. Then she said it…that she loved him. I had seen the text messages but it was really hard to hear her say it. We discussed / argued (a little) for a bit then I packed a bag and went to a hotel. I told her I could not be around her right now, even if it was Thanksgiving. I saw her the following Sunday at her parents (where she was staying with our D) and we agreed to separate. This was two weeks ago. I began doing research and found some great advice from DB. I bought the book and began reading it. Since we’ve been separated, I’m neck deep in the ‘180 method’ There have been a couple of emails from me, going back to when we separated. Neither email was gushy with pleading and begging to come home. We have spoken on the phone but only when she calls me. She has told me that ‘I can call her too, you know’. I am following the guide to the 180 when on the phone. I have stopped telling her I love her, unless she says it first and I reciprocate. For now, we are taking turns in our house, taking care of our daughter. She is at her parents or I am at my mothers or a friends, when not home. Since we have not been talking much (she’s been calling here and there) and when we do it is not about our situation, so I have no idea how she is or what she doing with the OM. Her friends have told me that she laid out what her life would be like if she were with him. She told her friends that she would wait six to twelve months before introducing anyone to him. I suspect he may make between five or ten times what I do, and I do okay for myself. She currently works full time but (indicated to her friends) that if they were together she would ‘not need to work anymore’.
I love my wife dearly. She is the love of my life. I have told her that I will be with until she divorces me, that these are her decisions and that one will be hers too. So we all understand how I feel, I chose my wife believing she would always be true to me and never do something like this, it was the biggest reason for marrying her. Now I am living in a nightmare because she is doing the one thing I always believed should would not. Understand I have not lived a sheltered life. I have been through and seen many horrific things. Yet this is the worst situation, by far, I have ever been in my life. I am also worried about her, a lot. The decisions she has made are way out of character for her and that makes me concerned. One of our friends even suggests drugs might be involved, which I don’t believe are, but that just shows how shocked everyone, including myself is.
Am I going about this the right way? I don’t want to loose my wife and break up our family. I have been through the DB section about how having a D doesn’t solves any problems in the relationship. We have a child together so there will always be a relationship.
Oh, I almost forgot one of the most interesting parts, my wife informed me (when we discussed intimacy with her OM) that he (told my wife) is a VIRGIN. He has been married for ten years and has two kids. My wife tells me they had their children via IVF assistance. I don’t know what to make of this other than only two possibilities – (1) he is lying to her to get her into bed or (2) there is something seriously wrong with him, if true.
I am 9 years older than my wife. I am now 44 and she is 35. Again, been together almost ten years and married six this spring. I am the only long-term relationship she has ever had but she had been with several men (aka not a virgin) before we met. Again, please read my background and pass along your insight. I need it. Otherwise I’ve been back to church for a month now and praying she finds her way home and spending time with our daughter, making her the priority. I am taking everything one day at a time, and trying to be patient. I have accepted that this will take a long time, otherwise, it will not be genuine.
Welcome aboard. Read everything you can about a WAW in an A. I can see how one may think drugs are involved, but it is not drugs that has changed her moral character.
An A is highly addicted. Even if she tried to end it, as long as she continues to work with OM, her addiction will continue as well. Have you read the 37 rules? (Not really rules) but may help give you some guidance in 180's.
It sounds as if OM is feeding her a bunch of BS, which is common.
I hope this one post is not the last we hear from you. Send us several to get off moderation. Asking questions will get responses from others.
Let us hear an update.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks for the response. Greatly appreciated. I have read the 37 rules and continue to re-read them. Have been sticking by them like glue since separation, two weeks ago.
The prior post, from 'Cadet' I feel like I have read before on another post? Also, why so negative? I have read quite a few topics and posts since finding the site and want to stay positive. The whole idea of 'detach' and 'GAL' seem like self damage control, and I get that, but whatever happened to being true to wife even if she seems like she has gone off the deep end? I didn't get married to 'detach' at the first sign of trouble. That's what dating is for!
Question on a '180' I did Friday. Wife calls AM to suggest we take 2.5 daughter to Santa that evening. She's not sure if she can go but will let me know. I say 'think that's a great idea' (even though don't really want to spent time with WAW in a crowded mall with our toddler going nuts for all the action -- not a good place to try and test the relationship, the way I see it)
WAW texts @ 2 PM that she 'does not feel great' and wants to try following week. I only text back, 'sure thing'.
A couple hours later, it hit me, when I thought 'whats the right 180 to do here?' WAW has complained, with MC, that I did not help enough with our daughter and it was a problem for our M. I had already volunteered and had D for four nights (3 in a row) that week (180 by me and I love being with D anyhow) so I decide to text her back "do you want me to keep her one more night since you don't feel great?' 'could drop her of to you at your parents sunday before church'. (end texts).
W responded back 'no I miss her will see you tomorrow'. Told her (text) okay and hope you feel better'
Was this an affective 180 or not?
BTW, when she calls, she seem like she is frustrated on the phone w/ me because I let her do the talking and on reciprocate to what she says and lays out. I don't ask her how she is, ect, just following the rules. Is it true the spouse / WAW will get angry or frustrated because I am pulling back and that is actually a good sign because it causes them confusion?
What about the possibility that I going about this wrong? I have been of the mindset that 'I am done talk at my wife, now it will she, she talks (if she wants to) and I listen'. What about the possibility that she's actually caught between myself and the OM, and taking time from BOTH of us to try and figure out what to do? I know she told one of her friends, last week, that (her week) was 'crappy' when it was asked.
What is the '180' here is to reach out to my wife and try to talk to her? Not pleading and begging (have not really done any of that throughout this) but really try to talk and LISTEN to her? I do know that would be hard to do because I only believe half of what she says, and maybe even that is too much credit.
My wife may be totally out of character with all of this but I would still like to think that she's not running into the relationship with the OM. She is not stupid and will try to protect herself. I would like to believe that she's not totally out of her mind. I also have to believe she's questioning what the OM has said to her (aka 'I'm a virgin').
All of this is a stretch, because affairs are addictive, and I feel she wanted to separate to spend more time with OM without having to deal with me at home, about it. But I do still think that my wife will cover her ass and not willingly give into the other relationship without a good reason to do so. I have no idea what is happening with her, since we don't talk about that, so it is SUPER hard to know what to do.
So what's the call here?
She called me this morning, after D went to daycare, to get the update (on daughter). I told her the tree was up and that she could decorate it with our D. I didn't get the tree as a 'brownie point' for wife. I want my D to have a tree for Christmas and that's why I did it. Daughter said "CHRISTMAS TREE" as soon as she saw it, last night, when we came home.
Wednesday AM's is when we have been going to our MC. The last one W came to was two weeks ago. She said she would skip last week, which she did, and 'maybe' come back the following week. I went last week alone, and found it helpful. Is the '180' here to cancel the appointment for tomorrow and tell my W? She told one of her friends that the last time she was going was going to be 'the last time' and that the MC was 'guilting and shaming' her (which is NOT the case. My W probably just feels that way b/c she thinks she is doing something wrong. The MC has been TOTALLY neutral.
I would suggest you not make or break any appointments for your W. If you want to continue to go longer, then make appointments for yourself. In most cases reported on the board, whenever a third party is involved in the M, the WAW will not attend MC with the same motives as her H. She may attend a few and then cuts out.
Let me try to explain something about the DB board. Usually, by the time a man comes here, his M is in very serious trouble, also, it may shock you to discover how many have a WAW who is involved in some type of inappropriate behavior with another person.
It is admirable that you want to fall back on the "traditional" (for a lack of a better word) thoughts to dealing with marriage problems. I can understand what you mean, however, you have a W who is engaging in a behavior that you will see has & will change her character a great deal. She is not the same girl you married. No doubt, you will not want to accept it, and will want to defend her. It may take a little time before you can see what I am saying.
The fact is, she feels done with the M and with you. You may not have seen the worst, yet, but I think you will. If you read a lot of threads here, you will see many stories of how the W will tell her H that the OM and she are "just friends". Even when the A is discovered, many W's will still deny it. I think you will finally be amazed how much she does not seem like the woman you knew. I only tell you this b/c it sounds as if you want to defend her. Supporting your W in the way you may have originally thought a H should do in times of trouble........may not be effective at this point. You have to be realistic about what she is doing, and what she chose to give up.
She will probably want to keep part of you in her life. Not as a H and maybe not as her lover, but whatever she wants.....it will be in her time and how she wants it. However, she will want OM also. She will not be willing to give him up. At the moment, she wants to make you believe she is confused and needs time to find herself. This is very common to hear. In fact, WAW's in an A say so much like other WAW'S that we call it "script". It is as if they are all reading the same words!
In DBing, you will learn how to deal with your stitch. First of all, you need to learn about what we refer to as detaching. Most newcomers have a difficult time getting our meaning. I will copy another poster's definition of it, b/c I want you to see exactly what it is.
I can tell you from my own experience and from what I have read and studied, a married woman who has OM in her head is like a different category all to herself. The more you try to be close to her, the worse she will treat you. If you do any pursuing, she will pull away. I think many men are surprised to learn everything that is considered pursuing.
One of the hardest things for you will be to not rescue her from the problems due to her own choices. This is tough love.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -
We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures. _________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hello! If you have been a certain way that was damaging to your relationship, unattractive, lazy, or is just something about yourself that this situation opened your eyes to and you'd like to change... those are 180's. They're doing the exact opposite of the unattractive, needy, or weak habits your W expects. That is surprising and creates uncertainty in her, but it is really for you to start improving yourself, for you, for your own life.
So if you have been thoughtless, offering to keep D while your W isn't feeling well, is thoughtful and a good 180.
I don't know if cancelling or not cancelling the counseling appointment qualifies as a 180 of any kind, unless you have a habit of pushing your agenda and not listening to her, and dropping the appointment is a way of acknowledging that she's not ready for marriage counseling, THEN I think it's a 180, I guess. The general consensus around here is when your spouse isn't fully committed to working on your marriage, marriage counseling is a bad idea. It's you pushing your agenda, ignoring what she may want, solidifies in her mind all the reasons she wants to leave, and gives her yet another opportunity to explain them to you. How she feels is how she feels, so if MC causes her to feel shamed and guilty, it's not getting you anywhere no matter whether you feel she's being shamed or not. It's her feeling that is real to her.
One thing you said in your opening post was you know it will take a long time. You are right; be patient. Work on your part of what she's been unhappy in the marriage for, for you, so you're a better partner after this. Show with actions, consistently over time, and she'll believe...words are cheap.
You've been doing well following the rules and not pursuing her. Keep posting and you'll get more help from wiser heads than mine...
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
THANK YOU for all the great feedback. It means a lot to me in this time. Today was a mostly bad day. Work was fine and productive, now at a close friends for the night but spend a lot of time being frustrated with WAW.
Detach. I get it. Sorry for call anyone negative.
I canceled out MC tomorrow and text my WAW. She talked about another day threw out some other times but then I pulled the 180 and said "Forget MC (name). I know better. You don't like her. Sorry for the questions. All set now" It was totally a 180 and the post from 'adinva' is spot on. I have a habit of pushing my agenda.
She called me ten minutes later, told me I have been short with her on the phone and that we are not talking. I told her, I feel like I have been talking AT you and am now just trying to listen. She asked if I would come by the house in two nights after she put our daughter to sleep, since we have not talked and we need to figure out Christmas, etc.
Debating on whether or not to go. It has been easier not seeing and talking to her. This is not a 180, just don't feel like going to her right now.
