Angry WAH blames me for everything.......

[Calibri]

You said that his parents were very manipulative, and I see that in some ways that is what he is doing. I am not saying he knows that, but he is doing it because it's what he learned to do to handle situations in his life.

I believe him to be manipulative right now. Me, his parents, possibly his IC. I would agree that he may not realize what he's doing, but he started handling this the way he always has. Avoid avoid avoid. Now it's too big to avoid. I believe he's waiting on someone (other than me) to tell him what to do. Because he's never had to handle bailing himself out of a crisis. Someone's always done it for him. Which is why I think (partially) he's stalled where he is.

The whole meltdown is a sign of weaknesses. He put himself in that position because he does not need to confront himself. His insecurities does not allow him to see with clarity, he is in the fog.

I don't know if it's a weakness, per say. But rather he's backed himself into a corner and doesn't know what to do. He revealed to me the other day that him leaving? Not all about me. Rather, he had a revelation that he couldn't keep doing down the path he was going, at the expense of himself. Through his IC he's learned that he's a people pleaser, always put others in front of himself, co-dependent. He's always been someones son, or boyfriend or wife. But he's never been himself. So he's now on the path to discover his "authentic self."

And if he has some issues like Bipolar Disorder or Personality Disorder, then he won't see anything the same way you see it. It would be good to determined that he has or not those kind of mental issues. It makes a world of difference if he is diagnosed and takes the correct medication. He becomes just normal again. The fact that he did start acting this way after his family reunion just show that it could be the trigger for all meltdown.

I don't think he has bipolar, and neither does his IC, my IC, or our doctor. I (along wither everyone else) think he's bottled up way too much [censored] for 31 years, and it finally came spewing out. He's always controlled his anger, controlled his emotions, and I think something "broke" for a lack of better words and it's all coming out. I read something that said people who bottle up their feelings and anger finally reach a trigger point and everything comes out -- and when it does it's usually explosive, destructive and out of left field. I can attest to that. That's been the last three months at my house.

So, I would take a step back and think about the patterns, what you think he is looking for with all this.

I think he wants someone to tell him what to do. Because he has no idea what's going on, because he's never dug deep within himself and identified the issues that he has. Does he want to be less moody and volatile - absolutely. This isn't a walk in the park for him. But if I tried to reframe it from his perspective, I would imagine he's looking for himself in all of this. Which is why the R is not a priority to him. And realistically, I know it shouldn't be. But I don't relish in the thought of him finding himself at the expense of me or our M.

He does not want to be far from you, he trust you and he probably love you. But in the same time, because you are a determined person, you are also a symbol of his failures, his inferiority.

I don't think he wants to be anywhere near me, personally. Just from his actions and his words. But I'm in the middle of the trees and can't see the forest. I do think that I represent his failures and his perceived inferiority.

H has low self esteem from his childhood and dealing with his alcoholic M. I think he never had a chance to develop his self esteem because he was too busy dealing with the volatile nature of his mother, the house he grew up with, being a teen with the weird mother, etc. He's often articulated to me that he wishes that he could be like me, from a confidence standpoint as well as a conflict standpoint. He sees me as someone who has their life together, who doesn't face trials and tribulations (ha!) or if I have conflict, I generally take it head on and solve it. I believe his comparison of himself, to me, has made him feel worse about himself and our relationship. And I've tried to tell him, he can't compare himself to me - it doesn't work that way. But it's just fuel to the fire at this point.

He yelled at me, early on in all this, in a fit of rage, that he never had a voice in our relationship. This is his perception, but it's far from my truth. Any big decisions, I always talked with him about. Every time he has said no, I've respected his wishes. I always sought his input with everything from my own personal matters to our relationship matters. But what I think he's saying, is that he wanted to say more and didn't feel comfortable saying it -- because he was trying to please me. Or be a good husband. Which, I never asked for. He assumed that he had to modify his behavior to make ME happy. He's had a voice, all along, he just hasn't used it or realized until it exploded in his face that he needed to articulate more. For himself, not for me.

Maybe, you need to make it clear to him that you want to work on your M, but going through this hard time in your life made you understand that you had your own problems and have decided to work on making yourself a better person.

I'm going to sound like a bratty teenager. But I've told him this. He doesn't care. Or, I should rephrase this to say -- I've told him this, but I don't know how much of the information other than I was to work on the M he is retaining.

Maybe the best is to have some time and space, and you can even tell him that. That you have been thinking and decide to give yourself some time to work on your own issues.

I'm already getting time and space. He's not in any place where he wants to hear anything, if that makes sense? If I tell him that I'm going to give myself time to work on my own issues, he'll just say "ok" and not initiate conversation -- which is pretty much where we're at right now.

This will make him think. Also will give him some perspective that he is not the only one that struggles during this time.

Again, I'm sounding like a bratty teenager -- but he isn't thinking of anyone or anything other than himself right now. Those are his own words. He knows that I'm struggling. But, it's not really making a (from my perception) impact on him. I get "I know this is hard on you, I'm sorry." And that's it.

He is going in circles, buying time so he does not need to face his own issues.

Exactly! And really? Why would he face his issues? What's his motivation? His parents are paying for him to live in a hotel, buying food, paying for his therapy. I have access to his pay check and I'm making sure that the mortgage and bills at our house get paid. I'm making sure the animals are taken care of. All he has to do is go to work and go to his hotel room and EVERYONE ELSE takes care of the messes behind him. While I realize this is not easy for him at all and he's in a dark place --- but, he's got a pretty sweet deal. All of the responsibilities are being handled by someone else, he isn't getting pressure from anyone, he doesn't have to do anything except go to work. And even that's optional. He could quit his job right now and his parents would continue to fund this.

With kind words, and I mean just kind, not kissing his behind, you can let the guard down for a bit and let him see the fragile side of you. You don't need to look needy, but look as a person that had enough. That this whole drama is poisoning your soul.

I don't know how to show him the fragile side? He's been with me 10 years. He's seen my cry and wracked with insecurities. He's seen me struggle with issues, he's seen me absolutely gutted by all of this. And honestly, I don't know if he would believe anything, because he has built me up as the big bad wolf in his head. And when I've tried to show humbleness, or fragility, or how I'm really feeling -- it's met with apathy or ambivalence. And then I get angry. And then we start the cycle round and round again.

I know I need to STFU. And for the most part I've been doing it. But there's only so much that I can sit and bite my tongue before the blood starts pouring out of my mouth and I have to spit it out.

You know that the tough side, the controlling, confronting, being bossy is not working for you. Then, even if you need some time away from him, think about ways that can better approach him. If he calls you, be nice to the point it does not hurt you. And then be off again. You don't want to go dark, but you don't want to suffocate him. There must be a balance.

I've said this in my response to TLEE -- but with communication -- it's now his rules, his way. And I don't know the rules because they change, daily, right along with his moods. He doesn't want to talk if he's tired. Or if he's in a bad mood. Or if he's not feeling it. Or if the sky is blue. He has boundaries in his head but he doesn't articulate them, but gets mad when I step over them -- not on purpose, but rather because I'm not aware of them.

He got mad at me the other day because "we were on the phone longer than he wanted to be." And I finally said, I can't respect a boundary that you don't articulate, and I'm not going to continue to be flogged for something I don't know that I'm doing. He asked me to explain in detail because he was intrigued by the concept. I told him, "I didn't know you didn't want to be on the phone a long time. If you only want to have a 15 minute conversation with me, then you need to say so, rather than think it in your head, and not say it, and then get pissed off at me because the conversation goes longer -- because you haven't stopped it. I can't respect what I don't know."

This was a new concept to him -- but he agreed that it made sense. But now it's back on him.


I agree with almost everything you're saying. I appreciate the suggestions.

I'm frustrated. I'm tired. I am pissed off. I am myself. I don't like walking on eggshells around someone. I can't practice non confrontational conversations with my spouse, if I'm not talking to him.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I'm ready to just go dark and tell him that he can contact me either when he wants to work on the relationship, or when he wants to file for D (which he couldn't do until September of next year).

But I won't do that -- because I'm afraid I'll miss an opportunity. Then again, if he wants to figure this out -- he knows where to find me. At this point - I'm going silent for the week. He can follow up or he can't. Right now, I'm tired of doing the heavy lifting. I can't check up on him and be the bad guy as well. I'm tired of the lopsidedness of what going on. I realize that's DB. But I also realize that I have to live with myself regardless of the outcome.

And right now, for today at least, he's on his own.

[Calibri]

I decide to go dark for the week, take a break from all of this.

H just texted apologizing for not being in contact today, and says he will call on his lunch break tomorrow.

I swear to God, I am in the Twilight Zone.

---

Im ashamed to say that I'm on the fence about taking his call. I want this, so badly, but I am tired. Extremely tired of all this. I realize what I have to do on this phone call. Be upbeat, be humble, be charming, not be pushy/controlling/myself. I'm in a grumpy place right now. And I realize I should stfu and be greatful that he even wants to talk.

I actually can't talk to him because of a work function. Will text him later tonight/tomorrow and let him know. Should I suggest another time or just let him decide if he wants to follow through at a later time.

I'm leaning towards the later.

--
I'm going to eat cookies and go to bed.

[TLEE86]

C,

I'm glad you are taking some time off and going silent at least for a little bit. You sound extremely irritated and frustrated right now and the last thing you want is to be sucked into a conversation when you're already angry. You know right now you will have to do all the heavy lifting, it's not fair in any way but it is what it is.

RE: being vulnerable and showing a softer side

You said that you show him your insecurities and he's seen you cry and all this stuff during your marriage. Maybe that's not what being vulnerable is...I remember you posted a while ago about your IC saying if your H could see how vulnerable you were when you completely opened up and let your guard down and were bawling on your IC couch. Maybe showing your softer side isn't necessarily crying or being understanding and not being "tough." maybe what being vulnerable means for you is to simply open up to him and give him the controls and let him help you for once. Look what happened when you were honest with him about not being able to abide by his boundaries when he doesn't articulate them. He was intrigued and agreed to try it out. Yes The ball is back in his court but isn't that what you wanted? At least to an extent he knows that he has to tell you what his boundaries are in order for you to follow them. You just posted that the other day so I assume you haven't had a chance to try it out yet. Keep being patient and just see how it goes now that you've expressed this concern to him. Give up that control and see what he does.

I read in DB that sometimes some people just set aside a certain time for a specific amount of time every week to just talk... I don't know if this is something you want to suggest to your H? So at least both of you are prepared for a conversation and your husband and you know exactly how long you'll be on the phone for.

Idk if any of this makes sense, sorry if I rambled, I've had a long drive today.

[labug]

Calibri, what does going dark mean to you?

[Calibri]

Labug,

Going dark to mean means no contact, no reaching out, nothing. I was using the time as a mental break and regroup with a beginners mind, stop going down the same path etc.

Thoughts?

[Calibri]

So, I sent H a text message letting him know that I was unable to talk at lunch due to a work function.

No response.

Sent another text later in the day saying I was sorry we wern't able to connect and asked about his day.

No response.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Didn't really hurt that much. Guess I'm getting somewhat better at detaching.

---
I'm open to suggestions, ya'll.

[hope224]

This situation reminds of of my own H. He is similar. He gets mad at me and doesn't contact me and then all of a sudden he misses me and then he texts to see if the baby and I can come stay with him for the weekend. It's bee. That way for months now and I still keep going down the same path. At this point, I don't think that my H with depression has much thoughts of how I feel. It's all about what he is feeling at the moment. In a way, it's really selfish and i am exhausted by his behavior. I keep telling myself I'm not going to see him or visit him anymore but then it's just a vicious cycle of getting mad and texting again, all while reminding me that we are still getting a divorce. I'm just go f to let you know that dealing with a depressed spouse is tiresome. My head hurts from just thinking about him now. I think this marriage of mine may be 95% gone. I just thought of posting because I know exactly how you feel. I guess it's time for me to re-read the dB book and maybe move on?

[Calibri]

. At this point, I don't think that my H with depression has much thoughts of how I feel. It's all about what he is feeling at the moment.

I feel that way, a lot. But I'm trying hard to realize that he has very real pain right now - and that it's altered his life. I feel extremely sad and worried for him. having been depressed before, I know how everything just gets......fuzzy. I try not to take it personally, and most days I'm unsuccessful.

I'm just go f to let you know that dealing with a depressed spouse is tiresome.

Amen to that. I thought I'd be able to navigate the waters as I've suffered from depression before. All of my parents have as well. My grandfather as well. I didn't realize though, how different of an impact it makes on oneself when it's a spouse and not a friend or family member.

My head hurts from just thinking about him now. I think this marriage of mine may be 95% gone. I just thought of posting because I know exactly how you feel. I guess it's time for me to re-read the dB book and maybe move on?

I actually retread DR and the part about depressed spouses. I actually have another book to start reading about dealing with a depressed spouse, once I get motivation to do so. Hugs to you Hope!

[Calibri]

And in news not related to my text message quandary and lack of conversations with h.


I am exhausted from GAL. I've been to the movies with my brother and a friend of his. Last weekend I attended two different work holiday parties. I took my sister to my evening work party, where I spent the majority of the evening dancing to really bad music. I figured, I was there, why not. It was also a good bonding experience with my sister. We have a 12 year age difference and therefore not a solid relationship. That's something I'd like to change. The next day my brother, sister and I went on a holiday tour of historic homes, discovered an amazing local food truck, and did some Christmas shopping.

This weekend I'm judging at a crossfit competition, and making chili. Going out of town for Christmas where there's no cell phone service and spotty internet. Huzzah! A friends going away party is in the works for the Saturday after Christmas.

Add in working full time and crossfit 4x a week (2 new PRs set tonight), and I've had a busy month. Looking for new things to do to occupy time and develop me as a person.

Having trouble sleeping. But my appetite has returned. Need to gradually put the weight lost back on, and not all at once.

Continuing IC. All I can do is listen, reflect and learn.

[labug]

Labug,

Going dark to mean means no contact, no reaching out, nothing. I was using the time as a mental break and regroup with a beginners mind, stop going down the same path etc.

Thoughts?

So stop the contact. If he contacts you be selective about how much of you, you put into the response. I'm not saying be a jerk, just be selective.

If a person really wants to be with another person, no contact won't change that.