I wanted to bring this topic back from 2001-2002 when I was a witness to MLC w/a friend. Sting, a former member of this former, witnessed some of my friend's odd behavior as well. I have also included at the bottom an update from earlier this month. I was lucky, if you want to call it that, because I had not only a mlcing h, but also a friend who was going through it at the same time. What I learned from my friend was very informative and I hope this info will help you better understand what the mlcer is dealing w/when it comes to them, as well as their surroundings and interacting w/others.
The interactions began in June of 2001. A confused, hurt and desperate man came to the Newcomers’ board. I began to post to him because I felt that there was something special about his situation. We posted for a while and then we began to correspond off line and then phone calls. I had thought that his wife was having an mlc and walked away, little did I know that the poster was the one that had entered mlc about 3 years earlier and made life difficult for her. Well, as time went by that summer; I finally got to meet this man. He admitted that after the wife had left, he had felt happy and relieved for a very short time. He also admitted that he had enjoyed traveling and really didn't like to return home at the end of the travel. During the first weeks of communicating, I learned quite a bit about this man. He admitted to having taken anger management classes for a while and that things just hadn't been right at home. His sleep pattern was off; he eats one meal a day and drinks tons of coffee and smokes. He admitted that he was feeling very low and depressed. Folks, this man had entered the twilight zone. He was suffering from denial, depression and I do believe anger had already been in the picture for a while. He was also starting in replay. Well, this man was very depressed all summer and into the fall with denial in the picture…front and center. In November, he moved into full fledge anger and was very obsessed about what his wife was doing and w/whom. He had lost control over her and was desperate to have her back home. At this time he was speaking kindly of her and the guilt was eating him alive. Depression was hitting him big time, i.e., up all hours of the night, pacing, on the internet, porno sites, chat rooms and at this time he even thought he had an incurable disease and was in those chat rooms as well. He began to complain about aches and pains and also was very self-conscious of his body. He was beginning to lose more weight, weight that he couldn't afford to lose. His smoking and coffee intake increased and he was starting to spiral downward. He could work for long periods of time. The anger lasted about 6 months. During this time he talked constantly of his wife and was vowing to divorce her. He started to speak negatively about her and said the usual mlc jargon about the marriage. I've been on the receiving end of several of his outbursts and I can assure you that they aren't pretty. What I remember most during these stages was how the depression just took over his body. He couldn't concentrate; he lost interest in everything and was out of touch w/life in general. He couldn't be happy about anything and it was an effort to have a conversation w/me. He had no feelings and he felt numb. He was putting himself down constantly and there were even several conversations about suicide and how he wanted to be buried.
Denial sets the stage for anger, anger sets the stage for replay, replay sets for depression and depression sets the stage for withdrawal. I believe this man was already entering into replay when I came on the scene. He wasn't quite into it, but as time went by, it was becoming evident more and more by the topics of our conversations. In January of 2002, I began to see that things weren't quite right. He began to change personality-wise. He almost had a childlike quality about him. One minute he was up and the next down. The temper tantrums were starting to appear, i.e., just like you were dealing with a two year old child. Sexual jokes began to appear in his conversations, he started talking about relationships more frequently and the calls were shorter and shorter to my home. In the beginning, he was quite open about himself and what he was doing w/his time at the house, now he was becoming very selective in what he was sharing. By this time, it was getting closer to his birthday. He made it a point to remind us that his wife had walked out just before his birthday the year before and he had been cheated out of a birthday party. He shared the fact that he had never had a party in his life. With that in mind, his children and I began to plan his party. It was a huge success and he was very surprised. He sat in the crowded room and told all of us that he had never had a party before and just didn't know what to say or do. It brought tears to my eyes that we had fulfilled one of his replay dreams. He was starting to go back in time. We had several discussions about his childhood and what had happened then. During this time, he began to talk about his body and he had to put some weight back on. He wasn't happy w/the way he looked inside and out. He started talking about how dirty he felt, the guilt and shame he was experiencing and some other things. He began talking about having his eyebrow repaired that had been damaged during an accident in his childhood. He began revisiting his past and talking about things he had done and where he had been. He expressed many regrets for the things he had done as a young adult. He began searching for old friends on the net, looking at old pictures, etc. Then the running began. He said that he had not had a vacation in quite some time. He began his season in the sun, so to speak. He met up w/an old female friend and they had a week of fun and games at a convention. He's run to noncureable disease socials in other states and right at this moment, he's in another state reliving a part of the past once again and hopefully this time he will learn the lesson so that he won't recycle again. Now, what I have found so very interesting is that there are tale tell signs of the changes in these men. Men who always wore white briefs now select silk colored boxers or colored bikinis. Men who really didn't wear sneakers begin to purchase them, the same goes for jeans or vice versa. They pierce body parts, get tattoos, some will try manscaping; have all kinds of surgeries just to make themselves look better. They change their tastes in women, music, food, lifestyles. They may become slobs or neat freaks. In other words, they become the mirror image of their old selves, i.e., the exact opposite. If they have any type of personality disorders to begin with, they become worse. If they had allergies or phobias prior to mlc, they tend to disappear during the crisis. Everything becomes the opposite in the person. The mood swings are very evident. One thing I have noticed and it's not intentional on my part, is the fact that I always know what my friend is up to when he's away. Two or three days prior to going on a trip, he calls and we chat about him, it's always about him, he begins to leave hints all over the conversation. He can't come right out and tell you what he's doing, but the messages are there. That's why it's so important to really listen and connect the dots. During this time, they lie like professionals and they can't be around you much because of the guilt. I've also noticed now that he's out there traveling all over the place, his depression has lifted and his mood appears to be better. He's not obsessing about the wife as much. It's almost like these guys look at us as their mothers and they know if they tell mom what they are about to do, we'll come down hard on them.
One important thing that I must share w/you. This man lives alone now except for a couple of pets. The children are all gone and yet, he still says he has to leave the house, he can't stay there. The pressure to run is very strong and that's why so many trips are out of town these days. Folks, your spouses aren't running because of you or the children, they are running because of the demons that are trying to get out. He's running hard and fast from the truth. Don't ever think it is you because it's not. This man has now entered into withdrawal. I've noticed that he's not as friendly or close to his neighbors and family these days. Our friendship has drifted apart, but that's okay. I know he knows that I'm around if he needs to talk. I don't call him. I leave him be.
As of late 2002, he's still not divorced and may not be for a while. It appears that he can't get his act together with his lawyer. I've lost count how many he has seen his attorney and changed the separation/divorce paperwork.
During his journey, I have attempted to show this man a safe path. It's been a very hard journey for him and it's not over yet. Unfortunately, at this time, he has given me the impression that he doesn't feel very safe w/me because of what he's doing. That's okay, I understand that he has no control over some of his antics, but what he does have control over is the lying. Friendship isn't based on lies and I can't accept that. I've told him several times that he isn't obligated to tell me who he's in a relationship w/ and it's really none of my business. I'd rather he not tell me anything than to feed me hints and lies. He's not learned the most important lessons of all. They are to learn to trust someone and be truthful, no matter if it hurts.
I am very grateful for the time that I've spent w/my friend. We have learned a lot together and it's very important to just be a friend to them when they are in crisis. They feel less threatened by you if you treat them kindly and just let them come to you to talk. They are so afraid of being judged harshly. They are very fragile during the crisis and it's very important to remember this. If you can learn to be patient, kind, compassionate and understanding, I think your mlcer will be a little more willing to communicate w/you.
Here’s a brief update on my friend as of 2015. He finally relocated back to his original home town and still is lost. He’s not remarried and lives alone. I do hear from him from time to time, but he’s still all over the place as to his life. He’s had some serious health issues that have hospitalized him, but he doesn’t take care of himself, nor does he follow the doctor’s orders. He has told me that he’s made so many mistakes over the years that he now regrets, but knows that he can’t go back and fix them, so he continues to move forward w/his life as a loner and feels that he is ready to cross to the other side when the man upstairs calls him home.
Wow. To sign over your whole life and the next 30 years for 30 minutes of relief, 30 days of fun, 30 hours of irresponsibility...and spend the next 30 years in despair.
I work with someone who has a spouse with early-onset dementia. It's occurred to me how similar our circumstances are in many ways.
She has moments of clarity and then sinks back into the fog. He desperately wants his wife back, the way she used to be.
He can't say or do anything to stop the process. It's beyond his control. It just is what it is.
Job, is there a way to alter how they view us? As the mom?...or is this just set in stone once the process starts?
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
From what I've observed w/others, no you can't alter the way that they view you. Once the crisis starts, there's nothing you can do to alter any path that they take. The only thing you can do is hope for the best, be the best you can be and if they so wish to have contact w/you, be civil to them. However, if they are acting out like angry brats, then you need to stand your ground and not allow them to walk all over you.
Yes, this particular situation was very sad and it's still sad today. He is a highly intelligent man who has a profitable business that really took a hit when he went under the fog. His employees kept the business afloat for him. Now, he's a lonely, sick man who lives w/his regrets. His former wife has moved on and remarried.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
This is tragic. It makes me feel even more hopeless about my situation. It seems as if this board is full of divorce and destruction. I am inspired by the stories of many LBS' and their lives. This is, by far, the toughest thing I have ever had to endure emotionally. Trying to be rational in the face of such irrational behavior is useless. My children and I have been discarded.
Thank you for sharing but if anyone can give us some more positive stories I would appreciate hearing them.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
Gwen and Heather, I am very sorry that you feel even more hopeless after reading this thread, but it's not to make you feel that way. It is to help the posters better understand what goes through their minds while in crisis, nothing more.
Yes, the board is full of divorce and destruction, but it doesn't mean that your situation won't improve. You have to take from the postings what you can use to help you better understand what your spouse is doing/thinking and leave the rest behind. It is being offered as a tool, i.e., so that you can actually read and see where their thought processes are so messed up.
As T posted, there are a few who have reconciled w/their spouses and I'm sure there are a few more that have reconciled and didn't return to post their progress here. Why? Because it takes a lot of time, effort and patience to reconcile successfully.
Any board that you choose to select that offers advice on MLC, you will discover the destruction is very much the same. Sometimes it's more graphic and detailed than what we would like to read, but it's out there. They, too, have a few that have reconciled, but the number is low because the reconciled poster doesn't return, the lbs has opted to get involved w/someone new, the lbs doesn't want to reconcile or the mlcer doesn't want to put forth the work to fix himself/herself.
However, that doesn't mean your situation will be dire. Your situation could be one of the successful ones, but it's got to play out to the finish before you will know for sure. Don't lose hope. You have to have some faith in yourself and the man upstairs.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
And some DO come out of the MLC fog! Hey...some of us do come out to the other side, ya know. C'mon...give credit where its due. Heather, Gwen...et al...don't despair.
I really didn't mean to be a Debbie Downer but that post was downright tragic. Yes, the reconciled probably don;t post much. Even though it is difficult to read these types of post it is important to be able to understand their viewpoint.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
Wonka, I totally agree w/you. Some do come out of the fog better than ever and if they reconcile, the marriages are better than the "old" ones. But, we also need to remember, that when they exist the crisis, there is also the possibility that some of them will keep some of the traits that they picked up during the crisis. For example, if your spouse was a neat freak, he could very well remain a messy person. If the spouse didn't drink coffee before, well, he/she might now. It all depends upon the individual as to what they will bring or not bring back w/them upon the return to the present.
Each and every crisis is as different as we are as indviduals. Each one plays out differently even though some of the traits and lingo are the same and that's why it's important to let go, drop the rope and live your lives to the fullest. If your mlcer wakes up and wants to reconcile, he/she will have a lot of hard work to do to in order to convince you that it's worth a second chance. You, the lbs, will be the ones that make the decision as to whether you want to reconcile. Again, there is always hope and you do have to have faith in yourself. You have to stay positive, dig deeper for patience and say a whole lot of prayers along the way.
Here are a few additional success stories that I remember: brandnewday, Mr. Bond, Rollercoasterrider, Holly06 and hrm134.
To view some of their threads, you will need to change your setting in the left hand bottom corner to all postings.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
