For anyone who may be new, there are 4 previous threads on the subject of wayward wives. If you are interested in this subject, I hope you will read those threads, first. My intentions are to help inform LBH'S about the mindset/nature of a wife who appears to become a totally different woman from the one he married. I hope we can inform LBH'S about what works and doesn't work in this new and crazy stitch.
You are invited to ask questions or start a discussion.
Quote:
Hey Sandi,
Could you please make a new thread for LBH (yeah, 303th one) as I don't want to take over your baby and create a new one? All of your other threads are locked so I can't add to any one of them.
I have a wonderful question that I would like to post in your new thread that will most certainly start a new discussion that I think you would have a lot to contribute to for newbie LBHs from your perspective as a former WAW.
I've read a ton of your other posts. I was wondering if you could offer me any insight into my situation? I am working on GAL. I am still talking to her when she initiates contact but as of Monday after she spent the night at home I stopped initiating contact. Not sure if that's the right move or not.
I've read a ton of your other posts. I was wondering if you could offer me any insight into my situation? I am working on GAL. I am still talking to her when she initiates contact but as of Monday after she spent the night at home I stopped initiating contact. Not sure if that's the right move or not.
Saw this comment from a very greenhorn newbie LBH that I think captures the essence of their very thought process.
Originally Posted By: Glove
Needing some concrete advice.. Your work is cut out for you.. Give me a next step. I understand self help (activities / exercise / be happy) but I believe if I do nothing the marriage ends!
The bolded section is where I think a lot of newbie LBHs go awry.
Would you please expand on this process, why it happens frequently, and why this is the faulty thought process in terms of DBing, using your own experience as a former WAW....Sandi?
Cadet,
I am wondering if it would be possible to link up all of the LBHs resources to include this thread in your welcome post?
Edit - Wonka all the threads are linked together and the first post is already linked in the welcome post, at the end of each thread a link takes you to the next thread. I think it is fine the way it is set up for those that want to do the homework. - Cadet
Last edited by Cadet; 08/01/1502:19 PM. Reason: message
Just my thoughts. When most of us LBS's get here its in this very desperate state where we're finally "woken up" to our mistakes in the M. All the mistakes we've ever made hit us in the face and we focus on them, and the faults of our S's are ignored or minimized in our heads. We are blinded by our own faults and trying to fix them thinking that will be the solution, since its the problem right now. Its only logical to think if our actions were the cause of the breakdown of the M, then the only way to save the M is by our actions also. Thus, doing nothing means the M is dead.
All the co-dependency and Mr. Nice guy issues many of us have also play into this mindset. Many times this is before we learn of an A and even if we do know about it we feel responsible at that time. Thinking we made the M so bad it pushed our S into the hands of another. It just takes time to accept the full reality of the situation and know this isn't just about us.
Last edited by Fogg; 07/31/1510:24 PM.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Needing some concrete advice.. Your work is cut out for you.. Give me a next step. I understand self help (activities / exercise / be happy) but I believe if I do nothing the marriage ends!
If you went to live in a foreign country where you did not know the people's language, would you resign to never communicating with them, or would you learn their language? She will not respond to your old language. She has become a foreigner to you. Do you just give up, or are you willing to learn a new language?
It's not a matter of doing nothing. It is a matter of doing what actually works in a stitch with a WW or WAW. It is a matter of looking at this with a different viewpoint. If I tell a newcomer LBH not to even try to talk his way through solving the M problems at this point & time, and not to become Suzie Homemaker, he thinks he's being told to give up.......or he wants to know how long before he can talk his way through it. Yes, I am saying to do none of that type of useless "work" believing that's what it will take to save your M with a WW. You could kill yourself trying to do everything for the little princess, and it would not change the dynamics in the R. She would continue to be a WW.
Fogg gave an excellent POV from the LBH, and based on what we have observed over the years, it describes the majority of LBH'S. They panic, and they do what they believe will work to make things better. They rely on the old technique of talking sense into his W. As one man admitted, "wear her down". The problem is that talking will NOT work on her now. That time frame is long gone.
So, if they can't talk, they act as if they have no clue what else to do. They try to become what they perceive to be the W's idea of a perfect H. They try to do everything she has complained about over the years. Problem is, the time frame has passed for it to be effective. No amount of housework, cooking, laundrying, etc. is going to save the M if she's a WW. She may have told you it was the problem, and at one time it was a portion of it. Presently however, there is a much larger problem and she is not going to tell you what you need to do to turn things around. That's why I am here. I tell you what your W won't.
IMHO, if you have a wayward wife, the LBH has to change the dynamics between the two of them. Otherwise, what he sees as being improvements to becoming a better H is all in vain. It will not change the dynamics and therefore the MR will not survive and/or be healthy.
In trying to get some men to think how they can change the dynamics in the R, it seems to stump them....or they read it as me telling them to give up.
Look at the situation. You have a W who wants to get away from you ASAP. She's done. She feels completely smothered by your presence sucking up her air. Just the sound of your voice over the phone turns her off. (Please don't start saying how she's always contacting you, b/c that is not the same to her. Will talk about that later). She has no good feelings about you, and least of all desire. The respect is gone. You are enemy #1. She is no longer the woman she use to be. She is moving on with whatever makes her feel good in the moment. She is thinking as though she's no longer your W.
Here you are, operating out of fear and pushing. Push, push, push! You pursue with your words, affection, behavior, contacting, etc. You make up excuses, even to yourself, to spend more time with her, or around her. You will do whatever it takes to keep the peace, especially defend yourself. You jump through hoops trying to get her back again. You are thinking like a husband! A scared, pitiful H who is willing to take her sh't as long as she just won't leave you. If this works against you, what can you do? First of all, stop doing and being like the guy in is paragraph!
So, she's running and acting like some girl gone wild, while you are crying, doing flips, and chasing her. You have to change the direction you are going. You become the man she[/u] is chasing. Not the husband......the man. You take your focus off her and she gets interested in you. You start living it up and having a life that does not include her nor based around her schedule, and it starts drawing her attention. You find that attractive guy you once were (or better), and she will be attracted to you. You are not concerned if she sees your changes. You are not concerned about what she does. She sees you moving further away. She gets closer. You continue having a fun and busy lifestyle, while treating her as though she is a nosy neighbor butting into your personal life. She can't control you. She can't bully you. She can't use you.
Are you getting a better idea about changing the dynamics? If the WW believes she is losing her H (he is no longer attracted to her, interested in her, is happy without her, etc.), that has more impact in drawing her back than any of that old stuff you have been doing. If she feels as though the man is dumping her, he suddenly doesn't look so bad.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Great thread. The only thing I will add, as a current LBS, is it will take a couple of months to get the courage/confidence back to do the things sandi2 has said.
It's hard, but you can see things differently when you start. Just don't go back too soon or falling for some of the WAS tricks, otherwise, you'll go back to square one! From experience.
M 45 W 52 SD22 S9 D8 BD 6 April 2015 Not living together 4 Dec 2015
It's hard, but you can see things differently when you start. Just don't go back too soon or falling for some of the WAS tricks, otherwise, you'll go back to square one! From experience.
Thanks for bringing up the subject of tricks. I often refer to the WW's bag of tricks, b/c she will try various ways to keep the LBH under her control. Don't misunderstand and see it as her wanting you for her H........b/c that is not what she wants. She wants to have you available for other reasons (babysitter, source of finances, escort, handyman, BFF, booty call, etc.). In other words, her reasons are all based on her selfishness. Everything she goes after (in connection to the H) is for her advantage only. She may lead him to believe there is still a "chance" for them, but it is only another trick to get something she wants. She butters him like a turkey. She knows he is desperate to have her stay with him, and she gains power from it.
He cannot afford to listen to her "words" or believe that some sudden change of "friendliness" is a baby step. This is not some signal for him to cave to her feminine wiles. She is a master at manipulation, and you will do well to keep your guard up until you start to see her actions match her words. Until then, do not believe what she says.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
It's hard, but you can see things differently when you start. Just don't go back too soon or falling for some of the WAS tricks, otherwise, you'll go back to square one! From experience.
Thanks for bringing up the subject of tricks. I often refer to the WW's bag of tricks, b/c she will try various ways to keep the LBH under her control. Don't misunderstand and see it as her wanting you for her H........b/c that is not what she wants. She wants to have you available for other reasons (babysitter, source of finances, escort, handyman, BFF, booty call, etc.). In other words, her reasons are all based on her selfishness. Everything she goes after (in connection to the H) is for her advantage only. She may lead him to believe there is still a "chance" for them, but it is only another trick to get something she wants. She butters him like a turkey. She knows he is desperate to have her stay with him, and she gains power from it.
He cannot afford to listen to her "words" or believe that some sudden change of "friendliness" is a baby step. This is not some signal for him to cave to her feminine wiles. She is a master at manipulation, and you will do well to keep your guard up until you start to see her actions match her words. Until then, do not believe what she says.
Yea - keep you as PLAN B, never PLAN A, you dont want to be married to PLAN B. You want to be #1.
"Doesn't she want me to fight for our marriage"? "Won't this just push her further away"? "Won't she think I don't care about her"? "Won't this just push her into the arms of the OM"? "Won't she think I'm rude"? These are questions often asked by newcomers.
If she is a WW, she does not want you to fight to save the M. The H has to accept the fact she has changed. She is not the girl he M. Her mindset is completely different from the woman you have known as your W. No, she doesn't want you trying to save the M, b/c she wants to get away from you and live as single woman. That is what she wants, and the more you fight her, trying to save the M, the worse things will get.
The WW often shows extreme coldness or meanness to her H b/c it is her way of telling him to back away and to not get any ideas that there's still hope for them. She is over him. She has no feelings left. She is doing all she can to discourage any attempts he may be considering. The best thing a LBH could do at this point is not show her how much he cares for her! She does not want him "proving his love".
Another fear of the LBH is pushing her into the arms of OM. There is no shame in anyone having these fears. They are legitimate. The hard fact is that the WW's A may get more intense before it begins to slowly die. Affairs are built on secrets, lies, passion, and emotions. Until cold reality is thrown in the mix, it won't fizzle quickly. Maybe some end within 6 to 9 months, but others can linger much longer. I believe it depends largely on the immediate actions of the LBH. How he reacts to his WW's behavior does have influence.......positive or negative. The way he pushes her further into OM's arms is "to push". He has to go the opposite direction from pushing.
The H can still fight for the M! He just needs to take a different approach from what he may have originally saw as fighting for the M. Most newcomer men see fighting for the M to mean talking her out of leaving and/or giving him another chance. It results in him fighting her........which is not fighting for the M.
The fear of losing his W and family can control the H and cause him to act every way that repulses his WW. We can tell him not to show these behaviors and he'll continue b/c of the fear controlling him. Esentually, that is what pushes her further away. It is not b/c the H stepped back. It is not b/c he detached and GAL. It is not b/c he stopped hovering over her and spending ever free minute around her. It is not b/c he stopped contacting her throughout the day.
"Won't she think I'm rude"? Really!? The H is worried that his wayward wife will think he's being rude? This is an example of how out of kelter the R has been for a long time. The H has to find the man he was designed to be. Women love manly men. That which sets him apart from her. Women may never tell their H what they really want, instead they tell them a bunch of other stuff he wasn't doing. Deep down, she wants that guy that makes her melt all the way down to her toes. What happen to guy? Where did he go? Can he be revived?
By becoming that man, first, then he may have the opportunity to become a better H. If he tries to reverse it, he may see her run for the hills. Sounds crazy? Yeah, but that's the craziness of the WW.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
