Wayward Wife, my addiction, advice needed

[trumpet]

Hello all,

I'm a 2 week lurker, and now first time poster.
Me: 39
Wife: 39
D:14
S:12
D:7
Married 15 years.

What blew the marriage into pieces: PA 3 years ago, glossed over, then EA started 3 months ago, I found out via sloppy laptop left on - messaging on FaceBook.
What blew the marriage into pieces #2: my pornography addiction.

Bomb Dropped on 10/30/2015.

We're conservative Christians that regularly attend church. I attended a lutheran high school as well. Met in college doing music together.

I've announced my addiction, and am in counseling. No porn anymore for mr. trumpet. Mrs. trumpet has always had big problems with it, and I think ultimately led to a sexless, loveless marriage, where fights were very common.

After the BD, she was unwilling to leave (OM is in another big city 2+ hours away, have met up once, but didn't have sex). We are sharing Master bedroom. She has mentioned that she has no more love for me, and that divorce was the only way to ease her pain, that she's tired of 15 years of crap. The last 2 years I was super-focused to get out of debt, and was heavy-handed at times. We are out of debt except for the mortgage. We did try MC, but it was before the BD. She was apathetic towards it, which makes complete sense now.

Also - wife has Grave's Disease - and had thyroidectomy in June, about when OM, who's going thru a divorce himself, messaged her.. past flame. So, chemical make-up, and now fake thyroid hormones, could play a role in my wife's mental makeup. Also, with a full-time job promotion (more hours, more responsibility), kids activities, my 50+ hour a week job, and her chronic low self-esteem and weight gain put her in vulnerable position.

I have read many of Sandi's posts, as well as Cadet's, and would love to get advice from all of you. What I have done so far:
GAL in motion
Started working out 2+ weeks ago, lost 20lbs already
Making sure I'm dressed better when at home, wearing cologne again.
read books - plan on reading DB/DR book soon
Stay away from wife for most part - using basement, she's upstairs
focused more on the kids - up at 5AM to workout and make lunches for them, hugs/kisses every day
Focused on not escalating any arguments, and not in front of kids, like we used to do.
No texts or phone calls to W, except concerning kid stuff.
Counseling with our pastor, as well as a session with christian MC, and now with Christian counselor for my addiction... this counselor will be weekly.

The addiction makes the situation so, so much more messy.
Since I made major mistakes to put my wife in a position to be so unhappy in the marriage. Her decision to have the PA and EA (with separate people, mind you) are hers alone.

I never felt so alone and so emotionally vexed in the last two weeks. My searches online have come up with 'when he cheats/when she cheats', but in my case, since pornography can be considered a form of cheating on your spouse, what do I do? Thanks for any/all help. I'll be listening for sure.

-trumpet

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Sounds like you dont need my normal welcome post.
If you do want it let me know and I can post it for you.

I am a little busy right now but hopefully you will get some great advice, I will check in again later.

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[trumpet]

Thanks, Cadet.

Wife is very resistant to giving me any information - for example, we're now going to meet with our pastor for a counseling session. He's done marriage retreats all over the US, so I trust him to get us on the right track. He texts me that we should meet. I tell the wife, did Pastor talk with you? All I get is kickback, and then comes over a half hour later, saying she didn't 'talk' with him, she texted him, and that she doesn't know if we're meeting up with him anytime soon. The crafting of the narrative is tough for me to listen to - she is struggling with the pain and guilt over the PA and EA, but is still in the fog from what I can tell. She did say that she'll give it ago until after the holidays, for whatever good that does.

[Ancaire]

Hi Trumpet. I'm so sorry that you find yourself here. You couldn't have found a better place to be in such a lousy time, though.

First thing: Read the book. Divorce Remedy is the newer, updated version of Divorce Busters. Either Will be fine, but reading the book will help you immensely - especially as you start getting advice on the site.

2nd: Study Sandi's 37 Rules as if you are preparing for a quiz. Of those rules, one of the most important for you right now is to believe NOTHING that she says, and only 50% of what she does...and of that, you need only pay attention to positive actions. The things your W is saying sound like standard script. They all seem to say similar things.

You're off to a pretty good start actually. GAL is huge! Takes pressure and focus off scared/hurting spouses and allows you to release that kung-fu grip on W. You want to be pleasant, happy. Calm and strong are two of my favorite words for how to act.

She's still in the house, still willing to give it a go...those are pretty good things to start with.

[trumpet]

Thanks, Ancaire.

DR is going to be on my second order of books - which will be this week. Walking on the treadmill at night while reading - might as well burn some calories while I get my brain in shape!

I'll re-read Sandi's 37 rules. She broke my trust, and the first time she did it she was very remorseful - that was in Sept. of '14... about 6-9 months after the one night PA. She said she wanted to work on the marriage, but I used the PA as a 'get out of jail' card for my addiction. Now that I'm controlling my addiction, the PA and EA put together made for quite a punch. She's not understanding that I trusted her after the PA, and now I don't... I'm making what they say are 'second order' changes, that will be the way I am the rest of my life. For her, I've just changed up my routine for 2 weeks. She's noticed, but oblivious that I'm working to be a better dad and person. She continues to watch crap reality TV at night, surfing Facebook for hope and inspiration. I'm in another room, reading my Bible or another marriage/self-help book, and staying calm.

While she wants to 'see what happens', her efforts so far leave a lot to be desired. Ugh, so hard to accept - I'm the one that was cheated on, and now I'm doing all the work.

Even the MC before the second BD said that my wife and I were a bit 'flipped' compared to many couples - I'm the one who liked to share, watches non-verbal like a hawk, and expresses love, likes to cuddle, but the wife is typically very reserved on her feelings (many bad boyfriends in her past, including an emotionally abusive one), will not express love very often (almost never grabs my hand, I have to initiate any affection, was against all sex for years as she didn't have any libido and wasn't worth it to her).

I'm only now realizing that I wasn't getting the emotional satisfaction I need in the relationship, as well as the sexual satisfaction that comes out of the emotional connection. Her self-image has always been a huge issue... she was bulimic for months before and after our wedding day (hid that for years on me), and recently found a journal during our courtship - she never told me she had it, and expressed love, lust, and emotions that she never could tell me verbally.

I just always thought that she was just a cold, heartless woman many days, and that I was going to live the rest of my life as a sexless, emotionless relationship partner.

I don't have to accept that outcome now. If we get commitment from my wife, this revelation on my part will need to come out. But... all in time. Telling her right now would be like trying to get a fish to ride a bicycle.

[sandi2]

Hi Trumpet, I hope you'll stick with us and post often. You are learning a lot of new information. If you are reading a lot of marriage help books, you may get confused on the advice you receive. DBing is not your typical M-help, b/c the M is close to D. It needs much, much more than just strategic improvements.

A few months ago I began a thread about the wayward wife. The link to the first thread is on the page of Sandi's rules, if you are interested.

Although wayward wives comes from different walks of life, they have three areas that they always seem to have in common. Those are resentment, disrespect, and rebellion. It often starts with resentment and it continues to build for years. The resentment feeds the disrespect, and eventually you see some form of rebellion in her. Sound familiar?

I doubt any secular counseling at this time is going to turn your M around. For one thing, they won't tell her she is living wrong. They will tell her that everything she feels and does is normal. They are working for your money, and not so much to save her from destruction.

If she is in any type of an A, no kind of MC is going to help her b/c she does not care about saving the M. Her head is wrapped around the OM and the thrill the A brings to her.

Just as the pornography is a terrible addiction, so are affairs. When she decides to end it, she will have to go cold turkey. That's the only way it will work. Then she'll have to go through withdrawal, which may take months before she can pull herself together to work on the M.

The good news is that your M can be saved. It's very hard, and it takes a really long time....but it can be done. I hope you will not share your new information with anyone, b/c these are tools just for you to use. If you were going to play a ballgame, would you show the other team your playbook? Well, that's how to think about DBing. Come here to vent, question, and learn.

Tell me about that basement of yours.

[Cristy]

Hello Trumpet,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

I have to say that you made me laugh out loud when you posted "Telling her right now would be like trying to get a fish to ride a bicycle." I'm glad you are keeping your sense of humor! Sandi is right...traditional MC will be a challenge if she is still involved with OM. In the meantime, you can effect change single handedly by doing something different in a positive way.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[trumpet]

Thanks Sandi and Cristy.

The EA might or might not be going on. Once I exposed it, it went underground at a much deeper level, and my wife got a new iPhone6 (fingerprint ID) so I can't see what is going on now. She SAYS they no longer talk, but like the rules state, I don't believe her.
Yes, I snooped, and once in a while get a sniff of what is going on when she talks to her mom. Mom loves her, but she was part of the problem in her youth, and while Christian, is telling her to divorce me and walk away if her 'baby' is hurt and tired.

While I appreciate that we might be meeting with the pastor/counselor soon, I don't think she's past the withdrawls of the EA. It almost feels too soon, but if she's willing to go, maybe he can jar something loose to begin the MR process.

She might be very happy and chatty with me for a few minutes about work/life when we see each other at night (we both work), and I just try to practice validation with her. The next minute she'll kick off a sarcastic remark (grew up extremely sarcastic) that is meant to inflict harm on me. I've tried to remain silent, or asking 'was that comment was meant to hurt me?' or telling her 'those words hurt', but her apologies after the fact are half-hearted and insulting. She's become a boss at her workplace in the last 6 months too, so a lot more demands on her time have made a change in her.

She's often had to yell at the kids to get things accomplished; often, I speak a soft word, and they'll do what I ask them to do. I was a middle-level teacher for 5 years, so I have learned more patience, and seem to get more respect from my kids. They have seen the disrespect and resentment from my wife towards me, but so far they are respectful of me. It does bug my wife, and has for a while. Now that I see it for what it is, it's unacceptable to me, but I haven't told her that yet - I can tell it would go over like a lead balloon.

Sandi - yes, the disrespect, rebellion (she's gotten drunk in front of the kids 3 times in the past year, which never happened before, including smoking, which she quit almost 20 years ago), and resentment were things I've lived with for years, and have only gotten more severe in the last 3 years. Her Grave's disease made the relationship go on a backburner for a while, and a bit of respect came back as I helped her through it, but now that she's feeling better, it came back with a vengance.

More than once she's asked 'Didn't you see this coming?'... well, no, I didn't. I accepted the relationship in it's broken state, and thought it would get better with time.

[sandi2]

They have seen the disrespect and resentment from my wife towards me, but so far they are respectful of me. It does bug my wife, and has for a while. Now that I see it for what it is, it's unacceptable to me, but I haven't told her that yet - I can tell it would go over like a lead balloon.

The kids learn how to treat their future spouse by watching their parents. The girls will treat their future H the way they see their mom treating you. Your son will learn how to deal with a wayward wife, by watching how you deal with this. Of course, we hope he won't have a WW, but have you noticed how many threads on the board are about WW's?

So, tell me, do you know why she resents you? In other words, you know she is resentful, but do you know what caused it?

What about disrespecting you? Does she roll her eyes, talk to you through the kids...."Tell your daddy so & so", when you are sitting right there? Does she say things in a disrespectful tone? How about in front of other? Does she put you down or make you the butt of a joke? It is especially damaging in front of the kids for one parent to put down the other one in their presence. Of course, the A is the epitome of disrespect.

I understand how a woman's health can hinder a relationship. Although it takes a lot of patience and compassion, it should not be an excuse for doing what your W is doing. I hope that doesn't sound too cold. I was actually experiencing quite a bit of health issues myself, when I had an A. FWIW, I had no libido for years, but guess what I discovered? Doctors have something to help with that problem.

While I appreciate that we might be meeting with the pastor/counselor soon, I don't think she's past the withdrawls of the EA.

It took me months to get past it. I would go to church and act as though everything was fine, but God knew my heart and life wasn't fine. In fact, that played a big part in me making a decision based on doing what was right, instead of doing what I felt. I stayed in my M, but it was a couple of years before I began to feel better toward my H.

The next minute she'll kick off a sarcastic remark (grew up extremely sarcastic) that is meant to inflict harm on me. I've tried to remain silent, or asking 'was that comment was meant to hurt me?' or telling her 'those words hurt', but her apologies after the fact are half-hearted and insulting. She's become a boss at her workplace in the last 6 months too, so a lot more demands on her time have made a change in her.

First, let me just say that I understand how stress can affect a person. People are affected differently. Let me also say that she can learn how to help with the stress without being nasty. I'll bet she knows who she can and who she can't talk to that manner.

Do not be silent when she insults you are says anything to show disrespect (including sarcasm and tone of voice). Stop everything and deal with it. As long as you stay silent, she will get worse. If a woman knows she can say anything nasty to her H and he just takes it.....her disrespect for him will worsen. You do not have to see how ugly you can be, but do call her attention to it and let her know you don't appreciate it. If she pays no attention and continues, then you need to consider how to react that would get the message across to her, "Whenever I say sarcastic or insulting things to my H, this is what happens". It's called a boundary, and it is to protect your feelings. You have to be the one to do the action when or if she dishonors your personal boundary.

More than once she's asked 'Didn't you see this coming?'... well, no, I didn't. I accepted the relationship in it's broken state, and thought it would get better with time.

It's very frustrating for many women. It causes a lot of anger and more resentment b/c they feel the H just has his head in the sand so he didn't see anything......much less do anything about it.

Just don't take the blame for her A. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior/actions.