Admittedly, I struggle with forgiveness. It has been some time now that H has been back (1.5 years) and I have not fully forgiven him yet. Some days I don't even want to. I agree with the quote that it happens in steps. It is not simply a switch that is turned on or off. My process has been rather slow--3 steps forward and 2 steps back.
I don't know what I am so afraid of. I can understand why the sequence of events happened in the deterioration of our M and I can see my part as well. Where I get stuck is simply the betrayal. To be honest, I may come to a point where I move away from this M. That is what my instincts tell me. Not anytime soon, not in the next several years, but some day. I want to know that I stuck it out and tried my best. H is a changed man--a good man, H, and father--but I continue to long for the way I used to feel about him. My heart is forever damaged. How do you forgive someone fully for that?
Sometimes I think coming here and reading/posting prevents me from moving forward and finding more forgiveness. When I read the posters' struggles, pain, and desperation I can't help but want to protect them. I don't feel an emotional trigger, but more a reminder of what I went though and that I allowed this man to destroy me. It took me far too long to let go of him. and pick myself up. It's is taking many of you too long as well!
I wish more posters would stop pining for the person who is hurting them and let go. LET GO. It's your only hope for healing and their only hope for finding themselves and possibly a way back to the M. I feel that so many here are trying to be a lighthouse, a friend, and just waiting, when really they are a door mat with a lost soul.
Maybe I need to go on a DB diet. Maybe that is why folks in piecing go dark from this site. I can see so clearly where folks are going wrong but I feel so powerless. I really admire all of you that keep coming back and helping others for all these years.
Everyone deserves respect, love, and you are ALL valuable. But you cannot look to your M to find yourself or your happiness in life. It comes from within. Even if and when they do come back it will never, ever be the same. The M is dead. The innocence is gone. Only if you both have let go, grieved the end, and learned to love yourself, and only then, can you build something stronger together. I may or may not reach that point, but I am a work in progress.
Blu
Blu, you might find benefit in my follow up post...there is more to he forgiveness thoughts that I have found and reposted...
I sense that you are very hard on yourself...you judge yourself more harshly than you judge your H as I perceive in your story. Is it possible you have looked within for for happiness, respect and love, but missed the process to forgive yourself and rebuild your own self trust. Is it possible that you want to protect those posters here in the community because you see yourself and wish that you could have rescued yourself in those days that you shared you could not get out of your own way?
Your WH did the unthinkable...there is no doubt in that...and I can't pretend to imagine what you went through...but I do not believe that he destroyed you, as you are here today stronger...battle scarred yes, but you are stronger and wiser for the hell you went through...I do beg of you to not give in just yet as you have come so far. But I might challenge you here to take your focus from the thoughts that you are not feeling that "love" that you say you would want to feel for your H in order to save the M, and turn the focus to forgiving yourself. Forgive yourself for getting stuck early on. For not DBing well enough as you share. For putting up with WH and kicking and screaming and...and all the other things that you have not forgiven yourself for. Then get to building up the trust in yourself to do that which you know is right, be strong, and any other things that you may have lost self trust in.
No heart can permanently be damaged...God forbid that be possible...I believe that we choose to keep the wall up around an injured heart, but permanently damaged? I choose not to believe this possible, or forgiveness is not a real thing.
Blu, you are learning and growing and progressing. You are still with your H and family. This counts for something. No matter what the future brings whether it is with your H or not, please promise me...please accept this challenge...turn your focus to you and forgiveness of yourself...then look back and things may or may not look differently...I believe that is why MWD shares that there are marriages that are stronger than ever after an affair...she does not say that all survive it, but those stronger than ever leads me to believe that self forgiveness happened first, because only that true forgiveness and rebuilding of trust could possibly lead to the forgiveness of the WS...IMHO. Just my 2c
Also a couple of quotes that have me to ponder...and maybe ca for you as well.
“I never knew how strong I was until I had to forgive someone who wasn’t sorry, and accept an apology I never received.”
I may have to figure this one out...I do not believe that I will get an apology...I pray that I am wrong, but regardless forgiveness of her has been a goal of mine from the start. Your H has sought out forgiveness and if I recall there has been an apology and action?
“I have learned, that the person I have to ask for forgiveness from the most is: myself. You must love yourself. You have to forgive yourself, everyday, whenever you remember a shortcoming, a flaw, you have to tell yourself "That's just fine". You have to forgive yourself so much, until you don't even see those things anymore. Because that's what love is like.” C. Joybell C. Maybe we don't know what that love is supposed to feel like for another...if we have not showed it to ourself.
Blu, you are a wonderful person. I draw much encouragement and strength from your presence here. You are in my prayers and heart.
Me 46 Former W 46 D19 D7 BD Feb 2016 WAW moves out 4/16/16 D final 6/1/2017
It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
cheesyt, I am so glad that was helpful! Sometimes when we read threads here it begins to all look the same "180, GAL, focus on self, and detachment," and it's completely overwhelming when we are lost and depressed. I know when I used to read here (when H left me), it made sense logically but I didn't know how to do it. When worded differently and even metaphorically it speaks to some of us. I really like the Island analogy. It had me thinking about my own sitch and why at times I may feel stuck. Put simply, I never finished Island 2 when H came back. So I also never fully moved off of Island 1. I keep wanting to revisit it, and sometimes get stuck somewhere in between.
SH, my dear friend, thank you. Your words are so thoughtful, wise, and supportive. I truly appreciate what you wrote and I think I need to retread it several times for it to sink in. It's interesting that you are telling my how hard I am on myself because I was telling you the exact same thing earlier this year. Perhaps it takes one to know one :-)
You are correct tho. I am my own harshest critic and I have heard that my entire adult life. I think it's also helped me to be successful in other areas tho--academically and in my work. So what you are saying is that I need to find forgiveness of myself in order to heal? And that I need to heal my heart in order to move forward in forgiving my H? Then how would you propose I start?
I don't see myself giving up on H or walking away ever. However I know I keep him at arms length, and I do this by doing nothing. My inactions are my actions for slowly continuing detachment. I hadn't thought of myself as stubborn until this sitch In the last couple years. I just can't quite accept what he did. I want to, but that is where I get stuck. Is it the betrayal or is it that I have not healed from the trauma? I have not even shared some of the details that lead up to his A, and it's pretty awful.
He apologizes all the time. He is incredibly remorseful and regretful. He has taken full responsibility, he is committed to doing whatever it takes, and he is also recovering from being the Nice Guy. So he has to walk the fine line of being present and patient but not falling back into being a doormat. His years of Nice Guy (door mat) behavior are one of the things that corroded our M. I lost respect for him and he grew resentful and found me controlling--we were very codependent.
It's interesting because he is naturally good at DB without having read the material or knowing what it means. He doesn't pursue, he is working on himself, he validates, and he is available when I reach out. He is an awesome lighthouse so to speak. Perhaps that's why I won't become a WAS! Perhaps I need to truly and fully move off of island 1 and swim to the light.... Oh man that was cheesy but so true. Lol.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
These are all mutually excclusive. I think you caneed love and not forgive, love and not trust.
Clearly we can trust without love. It isn't an all or nothing choice, you can trust on one thing and not on another.
Love is a choice.
Is forgiveness a choice? Forgiveness is different it is an action.
To forgive I believe we have to amend our belief system. They say to err is human to forgive devine. I belive this, our higher power forgives. It is its job not mine.
I don't think it's necessary to forgive your reformed WH. Maybe he hasn't atoned in the way you need. Perhaps you need more from him?
Sometimes waywards atone in the way that suits them. It has to be to suit you, satisfy you.
Then let it go cleanse and ritualise.
You may never trust wholly again. Once bitten as they say.
All of that is ok.
You can love and you do.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Here's an idea... fall in love with your H again. Love is a choice and you take it every day. Your will power split could save many marriages on this forum. But falling in love again is what you are missing.
Your heart yearns to fall in love with him, but you don't know how you can trust him again. Who cares if you can trust him, you want to be with him, you are with him, so fall. Fall in love with him with all of your heart.
Only when you surrender your heart, will you surrender the pain. And if you're looking for trust, trust God. Humans err, God does not.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
V, thank you for this. Love, I do. Trust, I am. Forgiveness is where I get stuck. Most things in my life fall into place as I come to understand them. I can dissect and process until I reach understanding. I get it now--I see what happened, but it's the acceptance that gets me. Can I accept what happened if I am not able to forgive. And without those, I don't know if I can have the kind if relationship with H that I want. I want so much more than what I have. While I may never feel the way I used to about him, I still need something as good. Or better.
DDJ, I agree love is a choice. I choose each day to be with H. I try to love him each day as well. But to fall in love again--well how do you suggest I do that? Surrender my heart, but how? I would be a fool if I didn't learn a lesson here--and that he or anyone else can hurt me--anyone can hurt us if we let them-- and really, we can only rely on ourselves in life. I will never need another person.
I read so many threads here about waywards and I find myself more and more thinking that I want the LBS to let them go and move on! Love yourself and value yourself enough to know you deserve better. People keep toting how much they believe in marriage and family, but don't we all? You've got to believe in yourself first! Even if they do come around---they have got to WANT to be with you and they have got to CHANGE their ways. Sitting and waiting or trying to love them is not what brings people back. Love yourself.
My H has done all and more and I still have to heal my own heart and find forgiveness. So please listen to me and start now. Let them go.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I have learned the lesson that anyone can hurt me, I never ever thought this would happen but it did. I agree that I don't NEED another person and I can only rely on myself.
I don't know why all of us LBS don't value ourselves more, when I think about why I want my W to come back I am seeing the person I married, not the person that did this to me. She could come back if she WANTED but obviously she doesn't .....I need to do a better job of letting go....I'm getting there....
Thanks Blu...once again great post!!!
W:42 M:48 T:9 yrs M:1yr BD: Feb 2016 EA Confirmed: Feb 2016/PA July 2016 D: Feb 2017
Hawk, you are doing a great job! One of the reasons I started posting is because I struggled the entire time H was gone. It took me a looonnnnggg time to really let go and start imagining a life without him. When I started to do that is when he realized he was losing me. He was correct and he would have lost me. But he did a fast 180. More important than that, I freed my mind up from so many toxins!
Keep on keepin on! As you move on and get stronger she will realize what a fool she is. Or she won't. If she's doesn't, then one day you will be grateful and attract someone that can truly appreciate and love you the way you deserve. It's a win-win for you either way! So simple it's hard to get :-)
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
It matters to you a great deal. Your belief appears to be forgiveness is ESSENTIAL? I ask if that is your belief?
So I ask what does forgiveness mean to you?
What does it not mean?
To me forgiveness isn't essential. That's my belief.
And it is not necessary to forget either. Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting. You may never forget.
Is there bitterness, the need for revenge, are you living in some type of harmony?
Can I recommend the Jeanne Safer book on forgiveness. This book changed my world.
I have no anger, I didn't understand why I had no anger. Surely I should have anger, the thought consumed me that I could not heal unless I had anger. Then I knew, I had let go of the need for revenge, I had let it go. I just wanted the Giggalo gone, he hasn't asked for forgiveness. He keeps on coming like the Terminator. For money, still I have let him go and although there is damage it's my issue.
I have let go of the need to forgive. That need has gone. I don't need to forgive him. I have let go of the damaging feelings of revenge and bitterness. It's happened, I can't undo it and I thank God I found out quickly otherwise the damage would have been greater. I have no need to forgive to live in peace. I wish him well I truly do. I hope things work for him although I suspect they won't.
Consider, have you forgiven but are still holding on to memories? Do you think if you can't forget you haven't forgiven?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
