Sandi's Reflections - Part 2

[SoTorn]

Sandi. I am currently in a WW situation. Wife seems to have had a MLC and then went WW. A was an EA until about two months ago and went to PA. When this happened she completely withdrew, moved upstairs. Told me it was over. She led me to believe it was my fault etc. Then I confirmed A was a PA on November 1st. Now she says "Why do you love me? This isnt fixable! Its your fault! I want a D!"

I am very early in my stitch. However, I am GAL, 180 etc. I moved half of savings into my name, got my own checking account, changed my direct deposit etc. Bought myself some new clothes because I lost a ton of weight. I had to use my CC to hire a PI to find out. So CC balance went up. I am not wearing my ring, no texting, talking, pursuing. She kept giving me a hard time about things like if she still had some control. I had to write to her and tell her that she has no control, my actions are my own, how she made me feel and I am done. I advised she can move on if she wants because I am. I advised that I will not file for D. I don't believe in filing for D. I just can't do it. Maybe in the future, but not right now.

I removed all of the pictures from the house of us and put them in her closet, not to hurt her, but because I don't want to see them and I am not her H right now. I have been GAL. She is not contacting me at all and ignores me as well at home. I believe she is still speaking with OM and is "mad" that I interrupted her fantasy. I know he is pursing her still. I caught her right when she went off the deep end into the relationship with OM. He is older, married, has children and grand children. The only way she would have a future with him is if she just gave up everything including her children.

That being said. Should I move out? I want to move out with my kids, but I don't want her to go bat sh*t crazy if I do that. She needs to see consequences. So far the consequences are the children being affected by her withdraw from them emotionally, and them not wanting to live with her and with me completely detaching. It hasnt been long, but I really don't want to live in the same house as her and she will not leave.

I am in a conundrum. If I leave, I will probably have to take legal action such as filing. If I don't, she may not get the consequence she needs and will have her cake and eat it too for as long as she can. I know its early, and I will wait a little while. I want her to see that she isnt welcome at my families homes for the holidays. So she will be alone or with her very small family.

My BIL knows we are having issues but doesnt know specifically what. He actually sees how she is acting so he assumes its on her end. The way she has been acting, everyone notices that its her. This is rough, but the waves of sadness are getting further and further apart.

[SteveLW]

I know this is for sandi, but no, do not move out. Ask her to. She isn't obligated to (under most jurisdictions) but she is the one cheating, why would you leave?

I am very early in my stitch. However, I am GAL, 180 etc. I moved half of savings into my name, got my own checking account, changed my direct deposit etc. Bought myself some new clothes because I lost a ton of weight. I had to use my CC to hire a PI to find out. So CC balance went up. I am not wearing my ring, no texting, talking, pursuing. She kept giving me a hard time about things like if she still had some control. I had to write to her and tell her that she has no control, my actions are my own, how she made me feel and I am done. I advised she can move on if she wants because I am. I advised that I will not file for D. I don't believe in filing for D. I just can't do it. Maybe in the future, but not right now.

You don'be believe in filing for D, but you believe in removing your ring? Seems kind of contradictory.

Stay in the house. Make sure you have the MBR. Keep your ring on until you are D'd. Keep doing what you are doing. You can take her cake away without moving out, filing, etc. This paragraph is the problem:

I am in a conundrum. If I leave, I will probably have to take legal action such as filing. If I don't, she may not get the consequence she needs and will have her cake and eat it too for as long as she can. I know its early, and I will wait a little while. I want her to see that she isnt welcome at my families homes for the holidays. So she will be alone or with her very small family.

This tells me you are doing what you are doing TO TRY AND CONTROL HER. "If I don't, she may not get the consequence she needs". Who cares?! You are done right? that is what you told her. That is what you are trying to show her. But are you doing it for you, or to try to "give her consequences". WAWs are notorious for seeing through manipulation attempts. I characterize it as constantly looking over your shoulder to see what her reaction is. That is what people do when they are doing something to elicit a response from someone else.

Take the focus off of her. Keep it on you. Keep detaching (you are clearly not there yet). Give her the time and space she needs. GAL like a madman. And 180 on any toxic behaviors you may be guilty of.

Relax. Breathe. Take some time. This will resolve itself in time.....its own time. Not yours.

[SoTorn]

I know this is for sandi, but no, do not move out. Ask her to. She isn't obligated to (under most jurisdictions) but she is the one cheating, why would you leave?

I am very early in my stitch. However, I am GAL, 180 etc. I moved half of savings into my name, got my own checking account, changed my direct deposit etc. Bought myself some new clothes because I lost a ton of weight. I had to use my CC to hire a PI to find out. So CC balance went up. I am not wearing my ring, no texting, talking, pursuing. She kept giving me a hard time about things like if she still had some control. I had to write to her and tell her that she has no control, my actions are my own, how she made me feel and I am done. I advised she can move on if she wants because I am. I advised that I will not file for D. I don't believe in filing for D. I just can't do it. Maybe in the future, but not right now.

You don'be believe in filing for D, but you believe in removing your ring? Seems kind of contradictory.

Stay in the house. Make sure you have the MBR. Keep your ring on until you are D'd. Keep doing what you are doing. You can take her cake away without moving out, filing, etc. This paragraph is the problem:

I am in a conundrum. If I leave, I will probably have to take legal action such as filing. If I don't, she may not get the consequence she needs and will have her cake and eat it too for as long as she can. I know its early, and I will wait a little while. I want her to see that she isnt welcome at my families homes for the holidays. So she will be alone or with her very small family.

This tells me you are doing what you are doing TO TRY AND CONTROL HER. "If I don't, she may not get the consequence she needs". Who cares?! You are done right? that is what you told her. That is what you are trying to show her. But are you doing it for you, or to try to "give her consequences". WAWs are notorious for seeing through manipulation attempts. I characterize it as constantly looking over your shoulder to see what her reaction is. That is what people do when they are doing something to elicit a response from someone else.

Take the focus off of her. Keep it on you. Keep detaching (you are clearly not there yet). Give her the time and space she needs. GAL like a madman. And 180 on any toxic behaviors you may be guilty of.

Relax. Breathe. Take some time. This will resolve itself in time.....its own time. Not yours.

Ok, let me rephrase myself. I will not file for divorce. I have not gotten to that point "yet". In the future, when I reach my as of now unknown limit, yes, I will do that. I am not trying to punish her. I just don't want her to think that she can use me as a doormat (while in the house). I am not comfortable wearing my ring right now honestly, it feels like I am being fake, like I am trying to hold onto something that is not true. So I took it off. I honestly don't want to live with her, but I can't make her leave. I would not be filing to punish her, I would have to file or get an attorney or something to protect my rights as a father if I left. That's just a fact with the laws in the state I live in. I can't just take the kids, or just move out alone without putting myself at a legal disadvantage. I would have to actually file for D and submit a parenting plan along with it. That is for my protection, not for her punishment, provided I move out. So for now, I will stay in the house. I am in the MBR so thats good.

I did ask her to leave and she will not. I haven't made any demands or ultimatums. We went to a MC session that was planned before I found out about the A. MC was horrible and one of those "if your unhappy then divorce and be happy" people. I did advise that when she was demanding things of me, that she no longer had the right to do that and asked her to stop. I am absolutely not trying to control her. I understand that she thinks everything is me trying to manipulate her at this point. The actions I have taken recently were just stuff that I did for me. As of right now what she considers toxic is a car that I bought that she initially told me to buy and then got mad when I did. She hates the car but I am not going to make a poor financial decision and just trade it in or sell it, because she will think I am doing that to try and appease her.

The other thing she is pissed off about is that I used the PI to confirm the A and that was some $$$. But its on a card in my name. I will pay it off shortly here. But she has used her CC to buy gifts for the OM and I know. So that is the hypocritical part of her I guess.

Honestly I had already set out on a "bettering" myself path prior to her even starting the EA. She just didnt see it because her focus was on her job and then on the A afterwards. But yes I was in pursuit mode. I was always trying to "fix" things because I was being gas lighted badly. So the biggest change now is that I will just completely detach from her and our marriage. I am a roommate and I will be scarce when she is home, either out with the kids our at the gym or with friends. My will to GAL is strong, even though I am hurt badly.

[SoTorn]

Another question. I have lost a ton of weight. Therefore I have had to buy new clothes. I went to a budget shop and bought new clothes on my CC. About $120. When I got home today the WW immediately, and with a disgusted tone, asked "did you go shopping again?!?"

I felt she was trying to draw me into an argument and therefore just walked off. I am not going to argue or report to her what I am doing. Is that the right approach? I feel it may have been a bit rude but if I would have answered she would have argued 100%. I refuse to argue.

[Phoenix9]

I request that this get stickied. Sandi's insight towards the WW mindset has been priceless for many of us who are dealing with this.

[Cadet]

I request that this get stickied. Sandi's insight towards the WW mindset has been priceless for many of us who are dealing with this.

I suggest that all seven of this series should be read - linked on page one.

Link to the first one is in every first post that I make to every newbie.

[sandi2]

Torn I just saw your posts today. I wrote a rather lengthy response and then had some kind of computer error......and lost it. So, I'll try to shorten this one by saying that it seems you have really been on the ball doing a lot of things that indicate you are moving onward, detaching, GAL, etc.

Can you tell us why your kids are saying they don't want to live with their mother? What are their ages? As I'm sure you know, even with full custody, she would still have them sometimes, and they would still be affected by her emotional detachment from them. As the "sane" parent, you have to do what you can to protect them. Just know that most (not all) WW's will fight to the death to prevent their H from getting full custody. Not b/c she really wants the kids that much, but b/c she doesn't want him to win. So, if you should decide to go for full custody, be prepared to die on that battle hill, b/c there's little chance of returning to a MR with her. You have to do what you think is best for your kids, and with your lawyer's legal advice......always. With the painful emotions you are experiencing, it's easy for it to influence your decisions. How could it not? So, it's good to have an outside source to give advice based on their experience, profession, etc.

In my series of threads about the mindset of the WW, I shared my opinion of how it's better if the father (the head of the family) remains in the marital bedroom and marital home. However, there are some cases where that's not possible. I agree that the WW should experience consequences of her decisions/actions. Even MWD says that in most cases, some type of loss has to be experienced, in order to influence her in the right direction. When she is in open rebellion, having a PA, etc., then the H usually has to make some hard decisions...…..if he wants to have self-respect and hopes to ever have a chance of her respecting him as a man....much less as her H. It may already be past that point with you, IDK. So, whatever you decide about moving, make sure all your ducks are in order, so it won't come back to bite you. IDK if you own your current home, or plan to buy another one...….but please, get legal advice about all of that stuff. We can give you our opinions/advice about the relationship matter, but when it comes to finances and legal matters......get it from the lawyers. And, don't ever trust a WW to do the "right thing" or "be fair".

I am strongly opposed to "in-house" separation, b/c it doesn't work. I've been active on this board for a little over eleven years now, and have never seen one case where it worked. On the other hand, I have seen cases where the couple physically separated and were later able to reconcile. One case on the board happened to be a couple who were both counselors. She was in a PA, even moved to another town, and they shared a little daughter. I'll try to remember to post you the link of the H's thread, b/c it was a success story. The point is that the WW has to believe she's lost/losing her H.....for real. As long as he continues being part of her life, she doesn't really feel the loss. She can tell when it's for real. People say, "Well, you share children, so you'll always be a part of her life". No, you have the same kids, but you don't have to share her life. There's a difference. Make a life for yourself.

As I think someone has previously stated, personalities often make a difference in how badly a WW acts. I haven't read your entire story yet, but it sounds like your WW is off and running. Some WW's are bullies. Some are spoiled, and have a sense of entitlement. Some are mean. Most are manipulators. All of them will check the H's emotional attachment temperature (temp check). All of them are angry at the H. All of them feel justified in doing what they do.....and blame the H for it. And, as one of my favorite people use to say...…...all cheaters lie.

Don't know if I addressed anything you wanted to know, but I'll find your thread and post more there.

[SoTorn]

Torn I just saw your posts today. I wrote a rather lengthy response and then had some kind of computer error......and lost it. So, I'll try to shorten this one by saying that it seems you have really been on the ball doing a lot of things that indicate you are moving onward, detaching, GAL, etc.

Can you tell us why your kids are saying they don't want to live with their mother? What are their ages? As I'm sure you know, even with full custody, she would still have them sometimes, and they would still be affected by her emotional detachment from them. As the "sane" parent, you have to do what you can to protect them. Just know that most (not all) WW's will fight to the death to prevent their H from getting full custody. Not b/c she really wants the kids that much, but b/c she doesn't want him to win. So, if you should decide to go for full custody, be prepared to die on that battle hill, b/c there's little chance of returning to a MR with her. You have to do what you think is best for your kids, and with your lawyer's legal advice......always. With the painful emotions you are experiencing, it's easy for it to influence your decisions. How could it not? So, it's good to have an outside source to give advice based on their experience, profession, etc.

In my series of threads about the mindset of the WW, I shared my opinion of how it's better if the father (the head of the family) remains in the marital bedroom and marital home. However, there are some cases where that's not possible. I agree that the WW should experience consequences of her decisions/actions. Even MWD says that in most cases, some type of loss has to be experienced, in order to influence her in the right direction. When she is in open rebellion, having a PA, etc., then the H usually has to make some hard decisions...…..if he wants to have self-respect and hopes to ever have a chance of her respecting him as a man....much less as her H. It may already be past that point with you, IDK. So, whatever you decide about moving, make sure all your ducks are in order, so it won't come back to bite you. IDK if you own your current home, or plan to buy another one...….but please, get legal advice about all of that stuff. We can give you our opinions/advice about the relationship matter, but when it comes to finances and legal matters......get it from the lawyers. And, don't ever trust a WW to do the "right thing" or "be fair".

I am strongly opposed to "in-house" separation, b/c it doesn't work. I've been active on this board for a little over eleven years now, and have never seen one case where it worked. On the other hand, I have seen cases where the couple physically separated and were later able to reconcile. One case on the board happened to be a couple who were both counselors. She was in a PA, even moved to another town, and they shared a little daughter. I'll try to remember to post you the link of the H's thread, b/c it was a success story. The point is that the WW has to believe she's lost/losing her H.....for real. As long as he continues being part of her life, she doesn't really feel the loss. She can tell when it's for real. People say, "Well, you share children, so you'll always be a part of her life". No, you have the same kids, but you don't have to share her life. There's a difference. Make a life for yourself.

As I think someone has previously stated, personalities often make a difference in how badly a WW acts. I haven't read your entire story yet, but it sounds like your WW is off and running. Some WW's are bullies. Some are spoiled, and have a sense of entitlement. Some are mean. Most are manipulators. All of them will check the H's emotional attachment temperature (temp check). All of them are angry at the H. All of them feel justified in doing what they do.....and blame the H for it. And, as one of my favorite people use to say...…...all cheaters lie.

Don't know if I addressed anything you wanted to know, but I'll find your thread and post more there.

Sandi,

I dont know if you have read my threads all the way through. I appreciate your responses. I'll give an update. So this stitch actually started about three years ago. I can admit, I was not a great husband. I have always worked hard, contributed etc. However I had some serious issues with communication and just outright not working with my WW on resolving issues. Three years ago WW said "I love you H, but if you dont better yourself and work on changes, I'm out"
.
When WW told me that I made a HUGE effort to get my sh*t together. I honestly made some very significant changes. I became more attentive, practiced listening to understand etc. I went through a lot of counseling. I got to the understanding that a better me, with me being happy with myself would make a better H and parent.

It worked well, my career flourished, my relationship with my kids got very strong. For a short time my WW did notice and we were actually getting along much better. Than 1.5 years ago, my WW got a promotion under her current AP.

At the time, WW wasnt focused on an A, she was just focused on herself. I noticed that she wmstarted being a WAW. Just subtle changes here and there. But then about 6 months after her promotion she pulled away hard. This is where the kids not wanting to live with her comes in. WW got very bitter, resentful about everything at home, completely withdrew emotionally from the kids and I. The kids saw this and over time lost trust with WW.

I believe when WW started traveling a ton more and withdrew emotionally from the family is when the EA started. The kids tried to maintain a bond and she literally stonewalled them at every chance. WW destroyed her relationship with her kids. Then BD happened and she kept lying to them and trying to paint me in a bad light. Since the kids came to rely on me 100% of the time for everything, they see right through her lies. They still love her but they do not trust her.

Therein lies the conundrum. I am in an IHS. Although I noticed my WW coming back towards me a little bit, I dont believe that she is "getting" the hunt that I'm done. Of course I still love her and would reconcile. I'm just done feeling like a doormat. So my option is to move out. But if I do I will have to file for a D most likely.
.
It's not that I would file for full custody. My D16 gets to decide where the two minor children live. So WW would be fighting against D16s decision and not mine. If i leave WW will probably start traveling to see OM again, which she was doing g sbout 80% of the time. So regardless, even though i would get the kids either full time or a majority of the time, i feel WW would make our lives hell and that it would make it nearly impossible to reconcile.

I have noticed WW has been around me more when i am home. She used to completely avoid me. Now she stays downstairs with me, she eats at the table with me. She is back to asking me where in going, where I have been etc. Shes worried about what my family thinks. This is all stuff she literally stopped doing and now is doing again.

For now i think I'll just stay in my home in the MBR. I am detached completely and GAL full tilt. I'm cordial to her. I have been treating her like a roommate. She literally asked me if "i was ok with this situation ". I reaffirmed that I do not live in an open marriage and that she knows my feelings about the affair. But otherwise I'm fine. She asked me why I dont want to leave and move on. I told her that I already moved on. I know just words, but she sees it. She was stunned when I said I was fine and that I moved on.

WW is going nuts that I'm not showing any of my previous behaviors. No more pleading, begging, jealousy, asking where she is or was, asking who shes talking to or texting etc. I'm actually seeing some of these behaviors in her which is odd. She constantly asks where I am now and where I an going. She was goi g to make dinner the other night and I started to leave. She asked where I was going. I just said "out" and she replied "well I never know when you are leaving or where you are going or how long you will be gone anymore because you dont tell me anymore, so it's hard for me to plan things like dinner"

[SoTorn]

WW sent me a horrible text this morning pretty much pointing out every one of my failures in the last 20 years, twisting them to be way more extreme than they were and stating that is why she is doing what she is doing.

[sandi2]

WW's are very resentful toward the H. They will rewrite history and make it sound as if they were treated terribly, had to sacrifice happiness, etc. It's a way they try to justify what they are doing currently. She knows having an affair is wrong, but she'll try to justify it by making you out to be the bad guy.

Don't acknowledge her text. She's baiting you into a fight. You know the truth, and you won't make her change her mind or admit how it really was.

I suggest you stop responding to any texts that does not ask a direct question about the kids. You can tell when she is on a rampage, so don't get hooked by responding.