For folks joining in on the action at this point, quick summary:
W walked out in typical BD fashion and then mixed messages for a few months which gave me difficulties in doing DBing. Had a big chat 3 months ago and she said that separation was permanent. Since then I've been basically NC/Dark aside from being proactive on kid communications. No pursuing or asking questions. Took some time to get my head straight but then completely focused on myself and things are getting better.
Nothing eventful has happened in the last little while. I am putting myself back into my work more and getting that going. Also, been consistent with my health goals since beginning of January and will be keeping it up.
I have lots of new things that I want to get into this year, but I am slowly phasing things in and taking time. I have the tendency to be impulsive and when something excites me, I just want to rush into right away. But, I am making sure that my primary goals and new habits get really settled in and I adapt to the new lifestyle before I add more things in.
Stuff that I want to incorporate this year:
1. Woodworking skills (we have a community woodworking shop where they offer courses and little projects. Great way to learn and meet people as well)
2. Learn Spanish Guitar (will have to teach myself, but it will be fun)
3. Join Toastmasters or some public speaking and communications club (I used to be a very confident and engaging speaker many years ago; my self-esteem took a beating and so I have kinda lost that confidence and I want to gain in back)
I am having some trouble sleeping and thoughts do creep up all the time, but I am keeping busy and so that has helped.
I've been fairly tormented lately about my sitch and what W has done and it is taking up a lot of mental space than I'd like. The yo-yo continues. I read a piece on Chump Lady today on emotional affairs and her response to a letter and it kinda sent me over the edge.
I haven't fully recounted or accepted the EA that my W had and what that action meant towards me. I always framed it as possible EA, but when I look back and add the pieces up, it was definitely an EA - coming to accepting that has just kinda pissed me off.
Just the way Chump Lady framed her response to it made me finally realize how damaging what W did was to me and I am overcome by disgust and a real sense of betrayal.
I just need a bit of a breather. I love coming here every day and being immersed in this community, but I need a serious break. I think coming here every day just keeps everything in my mind and I have recently just been thinking about her and the sitch a lot more than I'd really like to. I have learned so much here and I have the tools and mindset to move on.
I need some space to think about where I see myself in 10, 20, 30 years and what kind of life I envision for myself. And then work backwards to figure out what logical steps I need to take. Especially for my career.
Some anger came back today and I have learned enough now to channel it towards motivation and lighting a fire under my a$$. I also worked out today which helped.
I have a hard time believing right now that I can find a path towards building trust with W considering all the damage that's been done. I am not making any decisions about anything right now, but I am just kinda done. I don't know how I can do something positive with W with the lying and deception from her part.
I truly hope no one here feels discouraged by my post. I just need a bit more 'me' time and figure out some large questions about the future. I know it won't be completely figured out, but I need a roadmap to something.
On a positive note - completely consistent with my diet, meds, reading, working out, climbing etc. for the last couple of weeks. That has been awesome and I feel really good that I have been able to motivate myself to continue working towards my goals.
Thanks everyone for so much support and wisdom. I wouldn't have made it this far without y'all.
I will be back after a much needed hiatus. Will definitely come back and post an update if something unique happens, but I doubt much is going to shift in the sitch as it stands.
Thanks Nicole. All the best to you as you move towards a healthier and calmer 2018. I hope to check back on you in a little while and see your updates.
J9 - I feel good to go for D right now. I dunno. I know AS says that once you feel done, give it a few months and then see if you feel the same. I think I am there. Stay healthy and safe and positive. Will pop back in a little while. Have my IC tomorrow so it's good timing for me to figure out some stuff.
Dude.....I have went back and forth as well. I have seen my W the past 2 days during kid exchange since my oldest is stick and I am working from home and she is not even close. I am re-reading DR to see if I can pull some inspiration from it to continue on. The problem is that the first Chapter is the D trap
I am happy with who I am, I am more aware of my pitfalls as a partner however most of this is on her. I have got my mojo back. The truth is I am a simple man, give me my kids, let me hit the gym, get a lift in and play basketball, meet some guys out for a few beers once in a while and I am good (also include some light reading). I don't need a bunch of extra $hit in my life to make me happy. It's who I am and I am good with that.
Anyways, I hear you man. I pray for clarity daily and for guidance with my decisons.
Thanks LH for the redirect. Yes, JRUSS's post is words to live by. My colleague is keen to set me up with a friend of hers for a date - I told her now is not the right time. But, she showed me a pic of her and I am looking forward to spending some time with other women with my full mojo back. There is an ocean out there and for men like us who have worked their a$$es off to be better human beings, we will attract great people who will want to be with us, whether as friends or romantic partners.
LH - what you wrote there just hit me super hard: "never will I convince someone to be with me". I am going to live by that motto.
I took a break from the boards myself, and it seems to have helped me.
I think there is definite catharsis in these boards and insight into healing. But coming here every day was also a constant reminder of what had happened.
I decided to take a break from the boards, and things went through the roof, once I stopped /trying/ to heal and just actually did things heal.
Transmission issues are gone, I've met someone who I have extremely intense chemistry with I have had multiple women contact me and ask me if I am available for a particular set of skills I have. I've gotten back to a healthier living style My nerve issues appear to have mostly subsided, and regained most function in my arm again.
I guess my point is, don't be a stranger, but taking a break is definitely a positive for me.
Totally wish we could talk outside the boards, since you and I seem to be very much alike, personality wise.
Best of luck brother
Married 9: Together 11 M:37 W:35 S:2 D:7 Bomb dropped 6/3/2017 W moved out 7/1/2017 Separation Filed: 8/1/2017 Modified to Divorce: 8/21/2017 Divorced: 10/5/2017
Thanks for popping back in J. After your last update I figured you were out livin' the life and making the best of it - and you have and that's fantastic.
Yeh, I've been lurking a bit here and there, but I am taking a serious break from the boards as of this weekend.
Good to hear your issues are resolved and you are finding good things and people in life. Yes, I'm sure we would get along just great offline.
I am living a much better life physically and it's just the mental healing that has taken a bit of a hit lately. I love this board but just need some more space and do some more GAL and put things into action.
Will check in periodically and I am sure you will too.
Haven’t been on the boards much, but still lurking here and there. Nothing much has changed in my sitch, when it comes to W. It feels like we’re settling into some pattern of kid exchanges and communications that are strictly on a need-to-know basis. I have no idea what she’s doing, and I don’t inquire or have any general interest anymore.
I am getting more and more detached every day and focusing on my goals exclusively. After months of trying to quit smoking and just going through the motions, I finally quit over a week ago. As most ex-smokers know, I am not out of the woods just yet, but I am quite confident on my ability to exercise self-control and I have put in the mental work to help me fight a war. I did have my mind play amazing tricks on me in the last few days, but I was able to stand my ground and not give in. I am really proud of this accomplishment. This was my first goal to get done. Now onto the rest. Still working out and now my blood pressure is dropping into good digits and so is the blood sugar.
One of the main things that propelled me to get through the first 72 hours of my quit, when the physical withdrawal symptoms are the worst, is that I wanted to start my transformation badly. Like really bad. Like I would almost cut my limb off for it. And this goes with the DB philosophy of creating those long lasting changes within yourself. I knew that my first step was going to be me quitting smoking, and the rest will follow because I could put in the hard work.
I have this insatiable kind of hunger in me now that wants to take life by the ball$ and make this transformation happen. Not for her or any one else, but just for me. I won’t life just happen to me any more.
There are no magic answers to help you heal yourself. There is so much pain and anguish on this board, and it’s so visceral because we can all feel so much empathy for each other. Without this community, I don’t know where I would’ve been in my journey.
I know we try and comfort and motivate each other through different sayings and thoughtful messages and I have a ton of those one liners to share, just like most of you. But life is complex and there has to be a balance of many things, some of it being kinda contradictory or working against each other. But, I found that the following things have helped me immensely and finding a balance with them. It’s like a recipe but you can adjust the dose to get it just right for you:
GAL / PMA / self – trust/compassion/awareness/control/discipline / sitting with discomfort and pain / understanding, naming, and processing emotions
I am sure there’s tons that can be added to that.
One of the few things that I have understood for myself from DBing and all of this is how much reliance I had in my W and our plans together for the future. I am sure it can be said that MR is an exercise in reliance on each other and that we should fully expect that from our partners. I understand that, but this has made me acutely aware of how much I cannot afford to rely on anyone else in the future. Maybe this is too cynical, but I just don’t know how else to see it. I am not in financial ruin or anything, but I am not in the greatest place to start building a strong financial future for myself or the kids. There’s only two options – reduce expenses or increase income. I am working on both.
Anyways, just in a place where I simply cannot afford to rely on anyone else for anything. My desire to be with W is diminishing rapidly every day and I really don’t know if I will ever be able to trust and rely on her if wants to recon. I know that’s not a problem I have currently and no need to obsess over it, but the trust is gone.
Taking personal accountability and ownership for everything. Figuring out which parts I let happen and which were not just my fault. Definitely changing things up for the former and learning how to deal with the latter better.
The best thing DB has given me is cultivating that hunger for transformation. When I put that in high gear to quit smoking, it gave me that drive and motivation and unbeatable feeling of being invincible – something I haven’t felt in a very very long time. Just get to that place and ride it and sustain it.
I want to be a better man and person come 2019. I want to look back at 2018 and see that I didn’t waste my time and I put in the hard work for what mattered to me.
Her may, congrats on quiting smoking! It is a habit I have never picked up but I heard quiting is extremely difficult. I have also heard that when people quit they gain a bunch of weight. Hopefully you can lay off those home cooked meals!
I am happy to see that you are progressing and growing as a person. It is also awesome that you are doing it for yourself and not some ploy to attract your W back.
My W and I have been in that pattern for quite some time. Brief interaction at kid exchanges and sometimes none at all during the week. I did question myself from time to time if I am doing the right things and maybe should I reach out more but when I thought about BD and everything that she told me it stopped me in my tracks.
The sad reality IMO is that the longer the separation goes on and everyone gets used to their new life the chance of RECON becomes less. Everyone gets adjusted to this new way of life and things just sort of happen.
I definitely don't want to rely on anyone for anything however I also know I don't want to live my life being jaded, scared to love again and fearful of opening up and being vulnerable in another R. I need to figure out how to strike that balance so I am not in a constant mode of detachment with 1 foot always out the door. Maybe being that way is part of the attraction????
Either way it sounds like you are truly on the path to change in all aspects of your life. It is also great to see that your post is more about you than recon with your W. Either way you have won my friend.
Congrats on the quitting smoking! I watched my parents try to quit for decades before they finally managed it. It is brutal! Stay strong on that for sure!
Me: Mid 40s W : Early 40s M:11 T:13 S, D, both 7-10 BD : 11/2017 Separation : 1/18
Her may, congrats on quiting smoking! It is a habit I have never picked up but I heard quiting is extremely difficult. I have also heard that when people quit they gain a bunch of weight.
Thanks man! Yeah it is a tough habit to kick, but a couple of weeks out you wonder why you ever did it. But it's tough to get to a mental place where you can successfully quit. I probably had at least a couple of dozen failed attempts before this one. I did put on a few pounds, but I gave myself permission to just eat whatever (within reason) and not worry about meeting my diet plans for the first week of quitting smoking.
I just picked up a skipping rope and cardio training starts on Monday with the strength work out.
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My W and I have been in that pattern for quite some time. Brief interaction at kid exchanges and sometimes none at all during the week. I did question myself from time to time if I am doing the right things and maybe should I reach out more but when I thought about BD and everything that she told me it stopped me in my tracks
I read what you wrote about the pursuit and distance on your thread. I think it's to give the LBS a serious break to gain some mental and emotional sanity. Also you've already put yourself out there and she's said no. It's not any different few months down the line. That's why it's all about the LBS to get some space and strength back.
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The sad reality IMO is that the longer the separation goes on and everyone gets used to their new life the chance of RECON becomes less. Everyone gets adjusted to this new way of life and things just sort of happen.
Yeah true. I was reading Sandi talk about the WW feeling loss and how it's a huge part of this process for them to even think about turning around. You'd think that they would feel the loss the same way we do - less time with kids, financial concerns, no partner etc. But they don't and for them the loss will be something else and come on their timeline. So, best to just let go and drop the rope.
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I definitely don't want to rely on anyone for anything however I also know I don't want to live my life being jaded, scared to love again and fearful of opening up and being vulnerable in another R.
True true. I think I am just in self-preservation mode and I've had a reality check about what it means to trust and be able to rely on someone. This has completely shattered all illusions and I know that I am here by myself and have to make things happen. Even if I get in a R, I have to be responsible for my own goals and happiness and I will never outsource any of that to someone else.
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Either way it sounds like you are truly on the path to change in all aspects of your life. It is also great to see that your post is more about you than recon with your W. Either way you have won my friend.
I feel like I've hit a new level of detachment and I can really feel it in how I am so emotionally removed from W and what she does. I am in this really hungry mode where I want to attack this world and get what's mine and make my space and mark known.
Thanks Subitai for your comment. Yeh, quitting is such a beast but once it's done, it's like a new world has opened up. I am enjoying it.
I just picked up a skipping rope and cardio training starts on Monday with the strength work out.
There are quite a few guys at the gym that skip rope in between their sets. Since I play basketball 3 days a week I don't much on my lifting days outside of a brisk walk on the treadmill at the end.
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I think it's to give the LBS a serious break to gain some mental and emotional sanity. Also you've already put yourself out there and she's said no.
That is why I have no regrets about doing it. Getting out of her swim lane really helped my sanity, strength and confidence. She just never pulled closer or showed a interest. I am ok with that.
I also don't try to see it as her loss or think about her having regrets. That very well might never happen and she could be the happiest she has ever been. Thinking about her having regrets, etc. is all about pumping up my ego and I don't need that. People change, it is what it is.
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But they don't and for them the loss will be something else and come on their timeline. So, best to just let go and drop the rope.
I agree, you never know what that loss will be, when it will happen or even if it will happen. We can't worry about it. If my W experiences regret or that WTF did I do moment it more than likely will have nothing to do with me, it won't occur until after the D is over and by that time it will probably be too late.
IMO most of the WAW are going to have to experience OM before this happens.
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Even if I get in a R, I have to be responsible for my own goals and happiness and I will never outsource any of that to someone else.
I agree
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I am in this really hungry mode where I want to attack this world and get what's mine and make my space and mark known.
There are quite a few guys at the gym that skip rope in between their sets. Since I play basketball 3 days a week I don't much on my lifting days outside of a brisk walk on the treadmill at the end.
I have always enjoyed skipping rope as my cardio. I prefer it over running and other cardio exercises. But if you're playing ball, then you don't need to worry about doing extra cardio. I might start playing a sport in the summer - need time for lungs to clear out and not overtax the heart.
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I also don't try to see it as her loss or think about her having regrets. That very well might never happen and she could be the happiest she has ever been. Thinking about her having regrets, etc. is all about pumping up my ego and I don't need that. People change, it is what it is
I agree about wanting to see her suffering loss and feeling regret. Both will come at some point, and it might have nothing to do with you. But, I do agree about this being a boost to your own ego. Part of me really wants to see that, but then I realize that the regret and loss is still going to be pain for her. So, all I can do is be sympathetic to her pain from afar. But I am still using some of the "she's going to regret leaving me" to fuel my transformation and DBing lol. Channeling anger productively.
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IMO most of the WAW are going to have to experience OM before this happens.
You're probably right. I see my W being in the wilderness for a long time and then OM, and then we see what happens. Or she's got OM already and we'll see what happens.
But I am still using some of the "she's going to regret leaving me" to fuel my transformation and DBing lol. Channeling anger productively.
LOL.....I have done a little bit of that myself. Not the regret part but my initial anger in general combined with what she told me at BD has definitely motivated me to get out of bed in the morning and has also helped me have some pretty intense work outs!
I stepped away from these boards for a little while to gather my thoughts and just focus on stuff IRL. Nothing has changed in the sitch with W. Just wanted to write out some thoughts as a way of processing them.
I have been inching closer to the decision of not wanting to recon and file for D. I can’t file for D until summer technically, so it’s not like I am going out the door to do it. I haven’t run out of patience or the little hope that I had put away. I believe that I will not be able to overcome the betrayal and what she has done. And rather than putting my energies in trying to revive a new MR, I am better off moving forward with my life and be with someone who will love me, respect me, and support me, and call me out on my bull$hit. With what I know of my W – high anxiety; sexual hang-ups; bad communication; unable to manage conflict – I just know that unless she does some serious IC and work on herself, she won’t be overcoming any of that. And I don’t think she has what it takes to do that. And I won’t go back to a R where those are still major issues with her.
The other issue that I have been grappling with is the problem of ‘who files for D’? I know that it is a very personal choice and what I have to say is not a judgment on anyone here. When I came here, my thinking was that I didn’t want a D and would do whatever it took to at least get a shot at recon. Even when I stabilized, I still didn’t want a D. So, I started to dig into why that was. First, I didn’t want her to ever be able to say that “look, I was right. He did want a D”. She’s justified whatever she’s done by thinking that I didn’t want to be with her and that I would see that over time – this is not true for me. So, I didn’t want to file for D for her to think she was right. Second, I believe that our issues are resolvable and it could’ve been addressed through counselling – which she has staunchly refused. So, with her being in the driver’s seat in all of this, I thought I would continue DBing, and give her a D if she wants to follow through – I think this is a very admirable stance and position to take, but I am not sure if I can do that anymore.
With DBing, the focus has to be on the LBS and getting through the BD tornado, observe and evaluate the wreckage, start rebuilding the foundation and then the rest of the house – can’t be the same old house. Your hope is then that the other person will come and help you build this new house. But, if they don’t, then you at least have something that can withstand whatever is thrown at it next. I am working on precisely that right now.
I am also tired acting ‘as if’ and seeing her, even though it’s very infrequent. I don’t see an attractive confident woman in her; I see a weak cowardly woman who took the cheap way out. I really don’t see anything in her now that I’d want aside from nostalgia and keeping the family unit intact. I do have anger and hurt and resentment over the betrayal. We LBS’s are expected to work all that $hit out through IC and self-improvement – which is definitely a good thing – but in acting pleasant, chill, and whatever with the WW/WH is like an exercise in delegitimizing your feelings. They f#cKin shattered everything and blew it all up and the LBSs are just supposed to find some inner fortitude and be pleasant? I see that as an exercise in extreme restraint and undermining your feelings. OTOH, I do see acting that way and faking it until making it as a powerful way of taking control over yourself and not letting the other person dictate your feelings and behaviours. I guess I am just at a place where I don’t have any gray space left in me to act in a certain way. I am going to be who I am now and she should see the clusterf*ck crater she set off with the nuclear BD and the hurt and pain she has caused. I am not going to put it in her face, but I am not going to suppress my feelings. This means that if I can’t be pleasant and chill with her, then I just remove myself from that interaction.
I will file for D because I have my own self-respect and dignity. I will file for D because I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t fully love me I will file for D because I deserve a better partner I will file for D because I am no longer afraid of being by myself
I need a herculean effort on her part for me to change this course. I am not keeping the road paved any more – I won’t erode it, but I am not maintaining it. I need to see her break from her cowardly ways and show me that I matter. There is time – at least six months – for her to show me something different. If not, I will file. I don’t care if it makes her think she was right about whatever. The only real DB philosophy that I will continue is NC/staying dark and self-improvement. I am done with her, but as AS says, give it a few more months and see if you still feel that way. The hourglass has started.
LH: Yeah, whatever fear that was there is completely gone. As for D, I still have time, but I know that the biggest fear that I had about it - that W would think her wanting a S was the right thing to do and I would come around to that thinking - is completely gone. I truly don't care at this point what she thinks. I'll do the D because it's for me.
J dawg: I have been a bit frustrated, but more about why I am doing what. I want things to have a purpose behind them and my stand about not wanting to be the one to file D was driven so much by emotion. I feel like not wanting a D for me just continues a path of devaluing myself - why should I keep standing for someone who has no interest in being with me or values me? I was trying to find the reasons that made sense to me. And none of them do. Just trying to come to a place of deep understanding about myself so that I can make informed decisions.
There is time – at least six months – for her to show me something different. If not, I will file. I don’t care if it makes her think she was right about whatever. The only real DB philosophy that I will continue is NC/staying dark and self-improvement. I am done with her, but as AS says, give it a few more months and see if you still feel that way. The hourglass has started.
I agree that if come six months from now you feel the same way, then you should file. You would have been physically separated for a year, and if the W is not making any indications toward Recon, and you have been able to grow and detach, then you'll be ready. I also don't want the D, but now that my W has filed, I must do everything possible for my kids and my best interests. Sometimes this causes me to do things that will anger my W or make it less likely we will ever recon, but that is the nature of the D process.
I felt like that standing for the MR and not being the one that files for D was the more superior position, and I got attracted to that 'superior' position rather than examining why I didn't want to file for D. When I did the examination, I couldn't think of a good reason. I don't care if it angers W or hurts some unknown factors for recon. If she wanted a different outcome, she's had every single day since the S to do something about it.
M....ok I get it now. I can tell you from my experience you are probably more ready to file than what you think you are and while I didn't initiate it I am happy and looking forward to being divorced.
I felt the same things you did towards the end, questioning why, how long, etc. IMO I don't think you can completely 100% detach while in limbo due to that ounce of hope you are holding on to. On the flip side while detachment is good for us (the LBS) I could feel my W gradually slipping away more and more each day as the separation continued and the distance grew.
It is a personal decision so I can't advise you on what to do other than to make sure you are at peace. I got to the point to where I was at peace with any outcome. If you are at peace then you have clarity.
I don't regret standing, I am thankful for the time my W gave me and I am thankful that she didn't rush into filing.
I know it's a hard decision but don't be scared. There is peace on the other side.
File for D because it is the best for you. And as your L advises.
In some sitches early filing is vital and in others in makes no difference.
To your future and those of your kids.
Cards, chest close any order.
You are no longer a couple, it's your interests that determine your future. A wayward like the G can play games with D filing, and you can lose control.
Extreme self care includes paying the bills and having money in retirement.
Just saying
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Yeah one of my biggest issues was with me being the one who initiated the D. But as I see it, I am basically living D without the formal paperwork. W and I don't talk beyond kids. I am completely NC/dark with her and vice versa.
She did send me a couple of random texts recently centered around the kids, but it was stuff that wasn't important. Kinda like, hey this happened and D is grumpy today. And I responded with something pleasant and chill and no response back. Weird, but don't care why she was doing that.
100% detachment is hard when there is this ambiguity, you're right. I've also felt that the situation has just been eroding over time.
I am at peace but I can't file for another 4 months is a bit annoying. But maybe I need the full 12 months to pass to have as much certainty as I would need.
I am with you about not regretting to stand. I think it was important to do that so that decisions aren't made purely out of emotion or impatience. But I am at a place where I feel a lot more stable and I am looking ahead. And I need a really good reason to continue to stand, which I don't have right now.
I also don't think I have it in the tank to go through piecing because I know that it has to include serious IC for W for a long time. That is something she will very likely not do. So, I know what my decision would be at that point. Because I know this I am thinking ahead.
I wish her the best, but I'm almost to the place of being done.
M....I agree and can tell you I felt everything that you are currently feeling. I think it made easier with no proof of OM to stand but in the end and even now when I see her there is nothing there for me emotionally.
I was prepared to stand for a year. It would have been hard to continue without any movement on her part. If the general rule is 1 mth for every year of MR then I would think you will know what to do after the year is over.
I wish nothing but the best for her, I hope she is happy and healthy. TBH the D process has been very easy so far. My W and I have agreed on everything. L costs will be very minimal so I am grateful that we have been able to maintain a respectful relationship for each other throughout the process.
J - when you see your W now, does she even look like her past self? I see my W and wonder what the hell happened? I see her and she's nothing like her past self.
There is no proof of OM, but I have a very hard time believing that there isn't one. But, it's not even worth my time to investigate that or let it occupy my mental space.
I am still angry. It's like she's completely erased the past and is someone new and different. When I see that, standing for the MR just looks so pathetic.
She looks like herself I just don't see any spark in her eyes, any pep in her step, she just seems very flat to me. I don't see any excitement or compassion, everything appears superficial. Obviously I don't see her out with her friends and partying or on a daily basis so I try not to read much into it.
I have a few moments here and there but I do not experience anger on a regular basis and when I see her I don't feel angry either. I am confident with who I am and what I brought to the MR, her loss, she is a fool.
I feel some sadness at times but if I am real honest with myself she was a pretty crappy spouse. Truthfully I am better for it. I don't say that from a place of anger I say it from a place of confidence and out of respect for myself knowing that I sacrificed too much of myself and got little in return.
People change some for the better others for worse. It is what it is and there is nothing you can do about it. Lately I have been thinking about life experiences and if you live long enough you will experience good times and bad times, happy times and sad times. If I reflect on my life the happy times far outweigh the sad times and the good in my life drastically out numbers the bad. I truly am blessed and M so are you.
She looks really fake and superficial now. Like she’s trying really hard to show she’s all put together and successful modern woman - single mom with a demanding career. It looks forced.
I’m angry because of the following things and I don’t know how to get out of it:
1. Rejection and my hurt ego. 2. Being thrown and disposed like garbage 3. Seeing her looking all put together. Even though I can tell it’s forced, I’m bothered by her looking like everything is all fine.
I think its a lot to do with my ego and rejection. I need to get over this. Not sure how to do it.
She looks really fake and superficial now. Like she’s trying really hard to show she’s all put together and successful modern woman - single mom with a demanding career. It looks forced.
She looks that way because she is. She is trying on the new lifestyle like new clothes. They don't fit yet.it's unfamiliar to you but it is how she wants to be.
I’m angry because of the following things and I don’t know how to get out of it:
Let me tell you of a technique called reframing. The first step is what would it be if was OK? The second step is to imagine the opposite and then to consider using the replacement as your tool.
1. Rejection
What if it was ok to be rejected? What if being rejected meant opening the door to new things? What if this new W was a better W? What if this W wasn't what you needed or wanted?
and my hurt ego.
What if I said get over it already? What if I said it was ok to have a hurt ego, it was creating real shift?
2. Being thrown and disposed like garbage
What if that was ok? What if instead it was recycling? There is a lot of money in garbage. Someone once skipped a Hockney picture, lucky finder of that picture. What if one persons garbage is another's treasure?
3. Seeing her looking all put together.
What if it was great she was all together? Suppose she fell apart into drugs and prostitution Instead? How would that make your life difficult in 5 years? If she becomes successful won't that be better for you financially? Isn't this Ok and better than a dead beat?
Even though I can tell it’s forced, I’m bothered by her looking like everything is all fine.
What if it was ok? What if feeling fine was the better choice?
I think its a lot to do with my ego and rejection.
I need to get over this.
Can we drop the word need please? You don't need to do anything. Instead use the word choose as it creates opportunity and choice. Self talk? Try this instead.....
I choose to get over this quickly and easily. I choose to see my STBXW as a healthy thriving person in her own right as that is best for us all. I choose to accept that W has the right to a happy healthy life and I choose to know that is in every one's best interest especially mine and my finances. I can not like or enjoy it, but I can choose to accept it.
Not sure how to do it.
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I would start by changing your self talk, and begin to move you to your goals.
You do have goals?
What are they?
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
It's good to hear your updates even though I wish your news would be about your wife returning, begging to reconcile and do anything it takes. The only thing I can think of, that may not fit well here, is to question Divorce Busters before you make your final choice. It's what we're all following, but if it hasn't brought you any results after all these many months, then you don't have much left to lose. You could always try asking your wife out to a coffee shop just to talk. You could tell her she looks beautiful. You could buy her a nice gift. Anything to break-the-ice and create an opening to re-connect without any pressure seems worthwhile to me. She's still your wife. Perhaps she thinks you're doing so great because you look great and she's trying to do the same. There's no way though this isn't affecting her. She must be thinking and feeling a lot of things about what's happened. If you have absolutely nothing else left to lose I think a goodwill gesture or two is how I'd proceed...
NicoleR, Maika tried something like you are suggesting above (back in September 2017 I believe...called it an experiment) and was told no, that the separation was permanent. Since then, she hasn't showed much, if any, movement toward R or that she might be regretting her decision or having second thoughts, so not sure why he would set himself up for that kind of disappointment again (or give her the satisfaction of knowing that he is still attached and wanting her back). Plus, it sets him back if she feels the same way as at BD, or so says the advice on here.
Maika, I do recall however that before Christmas you were gonna try extending yourself just a little, maybe try swallowing your pride (and anger) in certain situations to see if things might thaw somewhat and allow her to see the changes you've made by doing the odd family activity together...not pursuing but just accepting an invitation here and there or suggesting she join you and the kids in an activity.
Did that not work? Or did something happen recently? I get the sense something must have happened (OM suspicions?) because you seem to have got to the end of the rope rather suddenly. Or perhaps your patience has just run out?
Thanks everyone for the responses. I will try and address everyone’s comments. I quit smoking 2 weeks ago. I have some friends who overcame alcoholism and they were told that they would have a rush of emotions come back and they would be able to feel a lot more than they did before. I don’t know if that is similar when you quit smoking, but I feel like a wave of emotions have come up. I smoked to hold down my emotions and it was a mechanism to deal with my stress – smoking didn’t help with it, but it helped me to distract from it. Now I don’t have that distraction and so I have to figure out how to handle my thoughts and emotions.
J9: I am feeling kinda insecure I think. I see her put together and smiling and seeming like she has her $hit together (even though her appearance feels forced), and wonder how the hell she’s okay with all of this? I know she had a headstart with her initiating BD, but it looks like she’s moved on to a different life and has completely erased her past. At least this is my perception. She has a new fabulous friends, a high powered degree program that she’s in, and going places in the world and being some successful executive, while I am trying to just stabilize and figure out how to improve my career and finances and life. I feel like I am so behind her and I don’t see any improvement in my finances for at least 12 months. It just looks like she’s doing super great and that I was dead weight and garbage and now that she’s rid of me, she is living her life fully. As if I was holding her back – which I wasn’t. If anything, I supported and pushed her for her career and education goals. Anyways, just feel like I am left behind in the dust.
Vanilla: Thanks for that lesson on self-talk and reframing. You’re absolutely right. I need to do this to be able to move towards a positive mental space. You asked me about my goals. Here they are:
1. Quit Smoking – Done (Just over 2 weeks now since I quit) 2. Become healthy – I am working out and indoor climbing 3. Improve my financial situation and career – I need to spend time to figure this out. I am getting a small promotion soon, but I need to increase my income 4. Become mentally and emotionally stable and stronger – doing IC and being more reflective 5. Become less controlling – been doing good with this, especially during my time with kids 6. Reading/Writing – it’s coming along slowly; it dropped quite a bit because I decided to put all my energies and focus into quitting smoking. I needed all my strength for that, but now I can focus on other things 7. Getting my blood sugars/blood pressure under control – I am doing pretty good with this now and eating better
Nicole: I really appreciate your feedback. I know what you mean about going against DBing and trying something else if DB isn’t working. The last time I did it, she crushed me. I hated how I felt after that, but I knew that I had to do it to get clarity. I got clarity, but nothing else. I know that she wasn’t the best partner for me and I can’t take her back as is. So, if I do something to put myself out there, I am just going to get crushed again. I also don’t want her to think that I am waiting on her – which I am not anymore, but the door hasn’t closed completely. I’ll think about giving her a genuine compliment, but asking her for coffee or giving a gift is not going to work for me. I truly appreciate your feedback thought. Seems like we’re stuck figuring out how to do get a good response from our partners.
Slater: I definitely kept the mindset of swallowing my pride and being more positive around her, but she hasn’t invited me for any family activity at all. So, there hasn’t been anything for me to accept from her, and I am not sure if I want to invite her along to something at this point. But maybe I need to do that to see how she responds to it. She had told me that it would be nice to hang out sometime, and I had told her, okay, let me know. Nothing after that. She hasn’t initiated anything. There is nothing to give me hard suspicions about OM, but I find it hard to believe that she hasn’t gone out on more dates and maybe done more than that.
I don’t know why I am at the end of my rope so suddenly. My patience has kinda run out and I don’t know if I can just hang around. I know that patience is key, but I am feeling a bit down. I need to pick myself up. I will stick to the 12 months as I had originally planned, but I don’t know how much more I can do after that.
I’ve had a few nice interactions with some women lately and the attention has been nice. I became acutely aware of how vulnerable I was and that I could’ve done something that would’ve crossed the line. It did occur to me, but I was self-aware enough to not push it. I know that I just needed some human connection where someone was interested in me and who I was, and not necessarily romantically. It was just so nice to have someone spend time with you and be interested in you. I realized that I need that in my life. I want to meet new people and find someone who values me for who I am.
I just know that I am really emotionally vulnerable right now and my libido is also messing with my rational thinking. I am going to avoid putting myself in situations where I am going to test myself. I am just wanting to have a connection with someone else – not because that validates me, but I have been really missing it.
Thanks for that lesson on self-talk and reframing. You’re absolutely right.
I need to do this to be able to move towards a positive mental space.
so you chose to ignore!
You asked me about my goals. Here they are:
These aren't goals but wishes! The exercise one is sort of okish...
Goals require the following to be effective...
Specific Positive Actionable Time and date Achievable Current Full of passion Capable of visualisation
1. Quit Smoking – Done (Just over 2 weeks now since I quit)
Quiting something isnt a goal. Its an action. The goal is always the positive. Quitting is negative.
I am an enthusiastic non smoker, today my heart and my health improves daily.
2. Become healthy – I am working out and indoor climbing
I am healthier each day and I am passionate about working out 3 times a week. One of my new fun activities is indoor climbing and I do this once a week to improve my strength and agility.
3. Improve my financial situation and career – I need to spend time to figure this out. I am getting a small promotion soon, but I needto increase my income
oh dear! Really! There is that dreaded word again! It's your favourite word? It's in your posts everywhere on the board.. using it creates resistance, remember that time you needed to do your homework? Using need creates a real barrier, it is a weasel word goes in the bin along with the word try...
this.....
I chose to focus on my finances and today I cheerfully work on my career. I happily accept a well deserved promotion and I am taking X course and discussing opportunities with my boss by seeking monthly feedback....or whatever it is you are doing
4. Become mentally and emotionally stable and stronger – doing IC and being more reflective
I haven't a clue what this means or how it can be measured. IC once a month? Keeping a journal every day? This is pie in the sky.
5. Become less controlling – been doing good with this, especially during my time with kids
This isn't a GOAL! It is a non goal. What would less controlling be like?
I allow my children to state their opinions every day and I allow them their own views. I actively seeking to talk to each child twice a week and I validate their choices......
6. Reading/Writing – it’s coming along slowly; it dropped quite a bit because I decided to put all my energies and focus into quitting smoking. I needed all my strength for that, but now I can focus on other things
Then this shouldn't be on your list.
7. Getting my blood sugars/blood pressure under control – I am doing pretty good with this now and eating better
How, deadlines, actions....
------------------ I kick started your goals but they are just samples. Can I suggest you rewrite these as goals?
Let's have something you can work towards which is measurable and gets you to where you want to go.
Over to you
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Haha! Thanks for that. I am attentive to language but for some reason I still chose those words. A good reflection of not really being able to reframe and approach it differently. So, the 2x4 on that was good. Now onto the goals. Let's do a retry.
1. To be a committed ex-smoker on a daily basis so that I can keep climbing and being physically healthy.
2. I am improving my physical and mental health each day by working out at least 3 times a week, and going indoor climbing at least 2 times a week, with improved results in strength, agility, and focus.
3. I aim to make improvements in my career in the next 12 months by taking on a larger role on my team, identifying new skill sets and finding opportunities to learn them, and develop a 2-5 year plan for career development and increasing earnings.
4. I am committed to improving my relationship with my children by listening and validating their feelings, and giving them space to participate in decision-making on some things that affect them.
5. I am committed to reading/writing at least once a week. My aim is to finish a short story and send it out for publication by June of this year.
6. I am committed to improving my blood sugars/blood pressure by testing my blood and BP every day, taking the medications as needed, and creating a weekly menu with healthy food and cooking with passion and commitment.
7. I am committed to improving my mental and emotional well being by engaging in reframing my thoughts, understanding and processing emotions, taking a wider perspective, and having self-compassion and gratitude on a daily basis.
M.....I am sorry your are feeling the way that you do. It does appear that you are feeling insecure and something about your perception of your W has really struck a chord with you. Dig deep and determine why that really is.
I understand your desire and/or need to make more money to provide for your children/yourself. I also understand how that could make you more confident and secure in your future. Just know that it won't fix all of your problems. I make more than double what my W does and I am still in this situation.
Let me ask you this. You have often indicated that your W would have to make a bunch of changes and in your response to Nicole you even indicate that you know she wasn't the best partner for you. If that is the case why does it all matter? Maybe this is happening exactly the way it should be and your next R will be with someone who just loves M for M.
What values as a man do bring to a relationship? What are the good qualities about M that you can draw strength and confidence from? You deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you. Who wants to be with M whether he is making 50k per year or 100k per year.
Hang in there....keep your head held high. Appreciate all that you have and walk around with confidence. Maybe your not where you want to be in life or have the career that you had hoped for but IMO there is something to be said for those individuals who are happy, secure and confident with whatever they are doing or the situation they are in. If you flip burgers be the happiest, most confident and secure burger flipper ever.
I explored this deep with my IC when I had the same feelings you do. I felt like I wasn't smart enough, good enough, that I was not complex enough, that I needed to be more muilt-demensional and do a bunch of things that I wasn't interested in doing just to check a box or to win her back. I was struggling. Then a light switch went off in my head and I said F-that. I am who I am and I like what I like and if that isn't good enough for her (now) then I am not the one for her. I am a happy person. My IC told me that people chase happiness their entire lives and have never finf it and if you have found it you have something that many people would love to have. True contentment.
Truth is M people change. You stick to who you are, do you. Change some stuff if you want because you want to do it for yourself. Find your happiness h$ll maybe you already have and you just don't realize it .
Hey J! Thanks man for the thoughtful comments. Just been thinking about it today for a bit.
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It does appear that you are feeling insecure and something about your perception of your W has really struck a chord with you. Dig deep and determine why that really is
I saw her last weekend over a kid activity. She's all done up now, when previously she never cared too much about it. I mean her hair and makeup and it was just too much. Like she was hiding who she is and it was just overdone. Also, I saw a pic of her on SM and she looked very happy and a completely different person. That really bothered me.
I think it reinforced the feelings of being disposable and being discarded like I was garbage. I didn't even mean enough for her to even try. Tried to get away from me as fast as possible, like I was the plague. How can she be happy and putting on this completely new lifestyle? Like the past didn't matter at all. As if she has shed some old skin and moving on to the next thing. I guess I am just feeling really devalued and unworthy of even getting another chance.
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You have often indicated that your W would have to make a bunch of changes and in your response to Nicole you even indicate that you know she wasn't the best partner for you.
Yeah completely. All the issues that I can think of and how she was a crappy spouse to me are definitely true. But, I also believe that all those things are workable and we can figure them out. There wasn't anything that was such a deal breaker that I would not consider working on 'us'. Everything she had an issue with me, I could say that right back at her and so I know that she wasn't the best partner for me. But, it wasn't all broken.
Quote:
If that is the case why does it all matter?
I really don't know man. I don't know why I am so bothered and W taking so much mental real estate. I think it must have to do with my ego and being rejected. She even said to me that I am amazing, but still booted my a$$ to the curb. I guess not amazing enough. I don't know why I am emotionally wrecked lately, but I want it to go away.
Quote:
What values as a man do bring to a relationship? What are the good qualities about M that you can draw strength and confidence from? You deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you. Who wants to be with M whether he is making 50k per year or 100k per year.
Definitely. I am trying to make sure I know the value I bring and what are some great things about me.
Quote:
I explored this deep with my IC when I had the same feelings you do.
I think I need to do that with my IC. I haven't felt this terrible since BD and I can't wrap my head around why it is happening now.
Quote:
Change some stuff if you want because you want to do it for yourself.
I got that covered for sure. I plan to keep going with my commitments to myself and changing things up for good.
M.....it does appear to be all about your ego and self-esteem. Do you feel like your missing out on something or that your W is going places and it is a place where you would like to be? Do you feel that your projecting what you want out of life? Maybe these feelings are coming up again because you are inching closer to the 1 yr mark and some finality is starting to set in.
What would she say about you? Look at him he has lost weight, is working out and got new clothes, etc. He isn't the same. Why didn't he do this when we were together? Could she feel that you have moved on as well? Your projecting some and trying to mind read where she is at or how she feels.
I can tell you it has not been all roses for me but I know who I am, what I want and where I am going. Seeing my W happy does not bother me, good for her. When I see her with new clothes on and this seemingly new attitude I don't sweat it. I know deep inside she is still the same person, with the same issues and she hasn't changed a bit. Your W hasn't done the work either, she is still the same, don't be fooled.
Remember she didn't throw you away or discard you. You are the one who didn't chase or pursue so who was the one that really did the dumping? I can tell you that I do not feel that my W was the one that initiated our D. Since I never pursued or chased I feel it is mutual at this point in time. I don't feel that she dumped me but that I dumped her. Maybe I wasn't the one that initially wanted it but my mindset changed. As we were walking out of the courthouse last week, after filing the D paperwork, she looked at me and made a comment about not many people go file their own D that they didn't want and I responded back to her saying "what makes you think I didn't want this?". She looked at me and was speechless.
I like the idea of you exploring this with your IC. Maybe you are cycling some if reality is starting to set in. Maybe you are starting to let go of some of that hope. I know I did a little bit towards the end and I think it is a normal response.
Just remember to validate yourself you don't need anyone else to do it.
Maika, dude, you post with your heart man. You have no compunction about putting on this board how you really feel. Good for you! Even to strangers, that must be hard. Hard to admit your ego is bruised, that she seems to have discarded you without a second thought...all those feelings, wow. I feel more empathy for you than most.
I wonder what your ex would say. Would she tell a different story? Would she say she tried for years but couldn't get through? Maybe, but in my view...having only heard your side...she is a fool, mainly because of your children and their ages. And she's not happy, no way, not buying that. She has to present that image to the world, why do you think that pic was the one chosen for the world to see? She has to know that her life and the lives of her children are going to be a little less full as a result of her decision. And harder still as a result of knowing that you were willing to make an effort, to show her all you've learned and that your family was worth the effort...but she resisted all the same (assuming she doesn't do a 180 in the next few months). That will be very difficult for her to live with as the years go by...and she may look different at times but I've noticed at other times you can catch a glimpse and they are exactly the same person, just older and a little more worn from the experience.
And Joseph9, how do you do it dude? You are the king of DB'ing! You seem to take it all in stride with little or no setbacks, no anger, no regret and no punitive behavior. You also seem to have resigned yourself to it being done, maybe because as you say, she has shown you nothing to suggest she's coming around. She is, by her conduct, done and done. Maybe that makes it easier, because it doesn't seem to bother you in the slightest.
I know we are supposed to be happy for them if they are happy, makes them a better mother (father) and all that, but how do you do it? How do you not harbor some anger that your kids are growing up with each of you only in their lives half-time? The things your kids will now be denied due to financial constraints that would have never been a factor and is not at all their doing.
Don't mean to depress anyone here but these are the realities of young families breaking apart.
The two of you are about on the same timeline, have similar sitches, and are both doing all the right things. I have to think that one or both of you will reconcile (or at least have the opportunity if you want it), but it may be too late for your exes, and for J9's, it may already be too late.
Good luck you two, I hope the best for you and your families.
you are missing the point here. Have you even read DB and DR? The Xs are overcompensating in layman's terms they are putting on a show. Right after a break-up, they feel freed from the shackles of the relationship and they flourish. And just like a peacock they show their feathers to attract a new mate (quite possibly they already have someone in their sights).
They are floating on cloud 9 of their newfound happiness and it takes time for them to realize that their dream is just that, a fantasy. Sooner or later their world starts to cave around them and for the life of them they cannot figure out why.
Also you are still not looking into yourself. You do have to own up to your part in the destruction of marriage. You were not faultless here. And for you to say that your W looks all dolled up, and why she could not at least try to make the M work. Well do I have news for you. Chances are that your W has been "trying" to make it work for at least a couple of years and you were just to stubborn to realize it. In hindsite you will be able to recognize it, to recognize the signs, but you are still early into your sitch. You will come to realize this fact in due time.
You really do need to shift your focus from her and onto you. She has began her journey and you should get going on your, there really is no reason for you to be shuffling your feet (still)...
Haha! Thanks for that. I am attentive to language but for some reason I still chose those words. A good reflection of not really being able to reframe and approach it differently. So, the 2x4 on that was good. Now onto the goals. Let's do a retry.
1. To be a committed ex-smoker on a daily basis so that I can keep climbing and being physically healthy. I reward myself by....
Much better. However it's still a moving away from goal not a towards something goal.
2. I am enjoying improving my physical and mental health and I work out at least 3 times a week, and I going indoor climbing at least 2 times a week, with an increase of 10% in strength, agility, and focus. I buy myself some wonderful fitted clothes to show my new figure.
Terrific! You are getting there
3. I am improving constantly and I determinedly take on more managerial tasks with my team, I clearly identify new skills to learn and enjoy learning them. I have a 2-5 year written plan for career development and as a result I earn 10,000? more by 31 January 2019. I can treat myself and my kids to a fun holiday.
Small fix to add measure, otherwise great goal
4. I am joyously committed to improving my relationship with my children by listening and validating their feelings, and giving them space to participate in decision-making on some things that affect them. I ensure this happens every time they stay overnight? I apologise to my children when I don't follow through and rectify as soon as I can. I am an awesome dad having true connection with my children.
Small fix for accountability
5. I am committed to reading/writing at least once a week. I have a short story ready to send for publication by 1 June 2018.
Great goal
6. I am committed to improving my blood sugars/blood pressure by testing and recording my blood and BP every day, taking the medications as needed, and creating in advance a weekly menu with healthy food and cooking with passion and commitment and I glow with health.
Excellent
7. I am enthusiastically committed to improving my mental and emotional well being by reflectively engaging in reframing my thoughts, understanding and processing emotions, taking a wider perspective, with self-compassion and gratitude in a daily journal?.
How does this list look V?
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Much better, much much better. Get this right as a technique and your world will change radically. Goals can be flexible too, you can add, subtract and don't forget rewards.
Now a suggestion if I may?
Get a pin board and have these on that pin board, add pictures to represent what you want. You can even do a dummy payslip showing the increase in your pay by 1,000 per month. Or add a page from the magazine you want to be published in. Pictures of happy kids and a dad.
Go to it!
You are on your way.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
And Joseph9, how do you do it dude? You are the king of DB'ing! You seem to take it all in stride with little or no setbacks, no anger, no regret and no punitive behavior
S.....I have had my moments. I am not perfect and still struggle from time to time. I will tell you though that I have put in the work. Reading, researching, implementing and self-discovery have been huge for me. I was not a perfect spouse and neither was my W....I don't know anyone who is, you know? We are all flawed, no relationship is perfect and it takes two people to work at it. I was willing, my W was not (maybe she tried to work on it in her own way but didn't include me in the process), her choice, her decision.
I am a kind, caring, loving, giving person. I am an engaged father who loves his D's fiercely and will always be there for them. I am laid back, easy going, I am calm, I do not yell or scream, I am not controlling, I like to laugh and have fun. I could go on and on but my point is that I know who I am and what I have to offer. I have no reason to be angry. Her loss she is a fool.
My issue is that some times I am too laid back, too passive. I got lazy in my MR, took things for granted, we didn't grow together as a couple and unfortunately I didn't realize it soon enough. I was one of those people who thought D would never happen because we had never discussed it before and I didn't know we were having problems until then end. I was naïve but not a bad husband.
I do hate that my W was not willing to work on it and that does cause me some anger from time to time. I have also lost respect for her as well. I am also sad that my children will not get to experience an intact family with M and D taking family trips together but I can't control it. I am determined though to do everything in my power to make sure my D's are well adjusted and have a happy childhood filled with good memories.
Maybe there is a FOG or MLC but maybe those are just terms we have made up to help mitigate the pain because it is easier to use those terms as an excuse than it is to look deep inside ourselves. Truthfully people change, situations change, circumstances change, what you want or value in a MR or R can change to. It is what it is.....$hit happens all the time. Maybe we picked bad spouses, overlooked too much early on or maybe this is happening exactly as it is supposed to. Who knows......either I can get busy living or get busy dying.
It was a shot to the ego early on but when I self-reflect back on who I am as a person and my values I know this is more about her than me. She really is a fool and that helps mitigate my anger, my desire to punish and helps me move forward. Will she ever have regrets. Who knows? My ego will say she will but in reality D happens all the time and people never look back. I would like to think she will but I am not going to stand around and worry about it.
I do understand though for some it is really hard. Especially if you are not proud of yourself, of who you have become or how you have conducted yourself in the MR. I didn't feel like I had a lot to change. Some tweaks here and there but no radical transformations. So for me it was just getting over and processing the punch to the gut. I think the mistake that most people make is that they try to tackle too many things all at once. Start with small goals and work your way up, small bites...don't try to eat the pizza all at once or you will get overwhelmed and when that happens one tends to stay still.
Finally, when I think about who my W is walking away from it helps me be compassionate towards her and also helps me be sincere when I say I hope she finds her happiness. Just because she doesn't want to be with me doesn't mean that I am a bad person or that their is something wrong with me. It just means that for whatever reason I am not who she wants in a spouse but that is not necessarily a reflection on me. I could meet a beautiful women tomorrow that loves me for who I am without changing a thing! I try real hard to not take things personally.
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I have to think that one or both of you will reconcile (or at least have the opportunity if you want it), but it may be too late for your exes, and for J9's, it may already be too late.
If my W ever has a change of heart it won't be until after we are D. The fat lady is warming up those pipes!
J…. I just feel like she left me behind and now her life is all rosy. I know it’s my perception of what’s going on with her, and I believe it is my projection of some things that I want out of life as well. Mostly some more financial success. She always made more than I did, which never bothered me and still doesn’t. In the marriage, I figured that she will always make more than me, and with her taking the financial stability of the family as her responsibility, I could focus on some things for myself and take care of the kids and family related stuff while still having a job. But, now, I recognize that I need to increase my income to be able to save for my retirement and for the kids futures. I feel she’s ahead in all of that and her walking away destroyed all of that.
I like how you reframed the ‘feeling discarded’ train of thought. That’s amazing what you said to her outside the courthouse and her reaction to it. Reading that made me realize that is exactly how I am feeling too – wanting a D because I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t respect, love, or want me for who I am.
I think I am cycling in and out a bit and reality is definitely starting to set in. I went climbing last night and it was a good way to get all of this out. I pushed myself a bit more than I should’ve, but I need to take that anger out. Going again tonight and getting more out of my system.
Slater….. man, one of the things that I had a very hard time with was being vulnerable and more open with people. I am trying to do a 180 on that (slowly)… I didn’t want to go from being a closed person to someone who just vomits out everything. But, I started taking smaller risks with people and letting them in and seeing how it goes. So, I followed the same thing for this board and it has been cathartic and useful for me. Everyone here spends time reflecting on my sitch and providing thoughtful comments.
I have tried really hard to think of the past to see if there were signs that I missed about her state of mind and what she was going through. And I have to say that I can think of some small conversations about things that were tangential, but now when I look back and reflect on them, I think they were hints about her state of mind that I completely missed. But, it was so obtuse that I don’t know how I would’ve picked up on it. We seriously had communication issues.
I know that I will be okay and she will have to live with the fact that she just made the lives of my kids less full and joyous. I don’t know how that option is better than at least trying to work on it. Yeah, the reality of the kids lives drastically different than what I was hoping for and planned.
Vapo….. thanks for the reminder. I have read DB and DR. I don’t mean to get defensive, but I take your 2x4s as sometimes you do need the kick in the a$$ to get back to the basics. I know what I contributed to the marriage breakdown and I have been working on it for a while now. I was doing well emotionally and mentally, and then suddenly fell of the wagon and didn’t understand why. But you’re right, I need to bring my focus back onto me and keep moving forward. I am getting my a$$ in gear 
Vanilla…… Thanks for the edits and fixes. List looks great. I will definitely put this up on a board with what you recommended. Visual cues are so helpful. Reframing… reframing…
Overall, I am happy with who I am and I know where I need to make improvements for myself. I know what I bring to the game! I just need to validate myself more, and practice self-compassion and self-love. J… that last post is MONEY!!! Thanks!
M - Her life is not all rosy and you know that. She hasn't done the work you have.
From a financial standpoint it sounds like your describing what a stay at home spouse might feel. Does that sound accurate? You and your W made choices together that put you (individually) in a job that might have offered you flexibility but not necessarily the income to match but it worked for your situation. Now that this has happened it has put you in a stressed financial situation? Is that causing some of the anger as reality sets in?
Yes.....you need to practice more self-love and constantly remind yourself of your good qualities! Every time I feel weak I remind myself of everything I am blessed to have and also think about what changes my W would need to make and what I was unhappy with. It helps to put my mind at ease.
Her life is not all rosy and you know that. She hasn't done the work you have.
Yeah for sure. She has her uni program going on and so that's either keeping her distracted enough to not think about all of this. When I think of how she will feel 'loss', I don't see it coming to her until her program is over. Again, just speculating. It may never come.
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From a financial standpoint it sounds like your describing what a stay at home spouse might feel. Does that sound accurate? You and your W made choices together that put you (individually) in a job that might have offered you flexibility but not necessarily the income to match but it worked for your situation. Now that this has happened it has put you in a stressed financial situation? Is that causing some of the anger as reality sets in?
Yeah I think you're right. She was always more ambitious than me and I wasn't sure what my career would look like. One of her early jobs allowed for her to create the career path she's on now - to her absolute credit, she totally engineered this path for herself from this entry level position and had the ambition and vision to do it. It's actually quite an amazing thing what she did for her career.
On my side, I got stuck with crap jobs with no advancement. I was also not as ambitious as her and didn't put as much effort into my career path - which definitely contributed to her losing respect for me. I also went through long bouts of depression which didn't help in the career path situation. But, I took jobs with more flexibility or stayed home for long stretches to take care of the kids so that we wouldn't be paying huge money for daycare and raise kids ourselves. So my flexibility created the space for her to go for more gung ho jobs with longer hours and lots of travel - she knew that I had home life taken care of and she never had to worry about that. I thought that was going to be our trade off. She even told me at one point 2 years ago that she is looking forward to becoming so financially secure and raising her income to a really high level so that I could pursue some of my own interests and work that wouldn't pay much.
I guess I am just coming to the rude awakening that the arrangement we had is completely over and I have to pull up my socks to get financially secure. I know I will figure out a way to increase my earning potential, but I am not sure how right now. I need to think seriously about what type of career I want and what I need to do to make my kids futures secure.
I have become a lot more self-compassionate to myself, which has helped in figuring out my goals and processes to get there.
W definitely wasn't a perfect spouse either and we'll see what the future holds.
Yeah man! Gotta pull myself back up. I was there just a little while ago, but cycled through some emotions and hit a brick wall that wrecked me. I am feeling better today and thanks to you and others that have helped me reframe my thinking and also given me good 2x4s to keep focusing on myself.
Sugah mama!!! hahahahhahhaha!!! I'll let her buy me some nice clothes, but after this, no relying on no one
Those moments will be there, emotions will hit you at times but it gets more and more scarce as days go by. You can do it man, just continue concentrating on your own life and ditch her from your mind. Don't worry about things you can't change or have an effect on. Nice to see and read all the support you're getting
In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced 2 young kids new relationship
Thanks for dropping by lcause! Haven't seen you around in a while.
Yes, the advice here is always so spot on and nuanced. I am focusing a lot more on myself and making sure that I don't let up on GAL and all of that. I think I am just also not getting used to the new normal of having kids 50% of the time. When they're not with me, it feels like eternity till I have them back. I really hate that and I don't know if I will ever get used to it. I never signed up for that.
Otherwise, I am doing well. I gotta make moves and be the alchemist of my own life and make $hit happen out of thin air
At the climbing gym, I just cold approached a guy and asked if he was interested in being a climbing partner. He looked like he was alone too and so I thought I'd just go up and ask him.
Got to know him a bit and now we'll be climbing every week. I was friendly and open and took the initiative to go and just talk to someone. I have another climbing partner for a different day of the week and so now I have made 2 friendships. They center around climbing but it's something.
I am going to be more bold and start being more out in the world. Part of me being more vulnerable and open has to translate into action in the outside world. I am taking small steps but I want to meet people and make friendships. I choose to be more social and open.
1. To be a committed ex-smoker on a daily basis so that I can keep climbing and being physically healthy.
2. I am improving my physical and mental health each day by working out at least 3 times a week, and going indoor climbing at least 2 times a week, with improved results in strength, agility, and focus.
3. I aim to make improvements in my career in the next 12 months by taking on a larger role on my team, identifying new skill sets and finding opportunities to learn them, and develop a 2-5 year plan for career development and increasing earnings.
4. I am committed to improving my relationship with my children by listening and validating their feelings, and giving them space to participate in decision-making on some things that affect them.
5. I am committed to reading/writing at least once a week. My aim is to finish a short story and send it out for publication by June of this year.
6. I am committed to improving my blood sugars/blood pressure by testing my blood and BP every day, taking the medications as needed, and creating a weekly menu with healthy food and cooking with passion and commitment.
7. I am committed to improving my mental and emotional well being by engaging in reframing my thoughts, understanding and processing emotions, taking a wider perspective, and having self-compassion and gratitude on a daily basis.
How does this list look V?
I'm not V but I LOVE this list!!! Well done Maika! I would just add to come up with sub-items under those main items so you can better focus on what your objectives and measure results. This isn't for post-BD, it's for life We're all works in progress.
My GF came by last night for Valentine's Day, we had a sexy, romantic, steamy evening the likes of which XW and I never had. I always thought my M was great at the time but I was missing out on some things I didn't know I was missing out on, LOL! I'm signed up for the Crossfit Open again, it starts next week. Will be fun to see how much I've improved since last year. I've been bulking in preparation and several guys at the gym have asked me if I'm on steroids, LOL! What's my point? That you've got an amazing life ahead whether your W stays part of it or not.
Hey AS!! Thanks for stopping by. Been a while, but it's always good to hear your thoughts.
Appreciate the suggestion about coming up with sub-items and measuring results. It is for life for reals.
Life with GF sounds just freakin' awesome. Today being V day, it's easy to feel kinda down. But then reading what you wrote, I started thinking about sex life with W and how it was so sub par and how I truly do not want to go back to that. I need a dynamic partner who is fairly comfortable with their body and loves having fun.
Just thinking about that totally pulled me out of my funk because I don't want a R with W where that hasn't changed. That's a big one for me, in part with other things.
So, thanks for the perspective. I am looking forward to having some awesome time between the sheets with someone way more dynamic.
Good on you for signing up for the Crossfit Open. I just caught the docs on Netflix and man I am hooked. I can't afford right now to join a crossfit gym, but I am working out at home and as soon as my financial situation improves, I am joining one. Not just for the fitness aspect, but also for the community aspect.
Crossfit Games are so inspirational - huge part of how I was able to quit smoking and stay on the wagon. I want to be able to lift and have endurance again. I am rediscovering my athletic self that I had during my teens and early 20s - it's fantastic.
I am looking forward to making my life even more amazing than it is now. I am inching towards a good place and me being an emotional wreck this week was a good reminder of how much mental work and detachment I still need to go through.
I just want to second CrossFit as the way to go. I started in December based on AS's recommendation and I fuching love it. I have worked on in a gym for years by myself with my headphones and it got monotonous.
CrossFit is totally different. It's very sociable and the workouts are different everyday. Other members encourage you to be better. I can already notice the muscles building in my legs that I would not do in the gym because I didn't like working on legs. Now I am forced to and loving the results.
It is a little pricey but is definitely worth it if you can swing it.
Thanks LH! Yeh, I know that I am going to love it and I am definitely going to join. There is one close enough to where I live and the reviews are stellar for the location and the trainers. It's quite a bit out of my financial range right now, but I am planning re jigging some stuff and start in summer.
I saw the docs on the Crossfit games on Netflix too and I knew that this is what I wanted to do. I will never make it to the games, but I want to Crossfit and train hard. I used to be super athletic and I want to get back there.
I am cooking my abs in the kitchen!!! Now need to follow that up with some rigorous workouts
It's pretty great. We've been together 3 years now. It hasn't all been smooth sailing, but overall it's been an awesome experience!
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Today being V day, it's easy to feel kinda down. But then reading what you wrote, I started thinking about sex life with W and how it was so sub par and how I truly do not want to go back to that. I need a dynamic partner who is fairly comfortable with their body and loves having fun.
I don't want to turn the forums X-rated but W and I always had what I thought was a pretty good sexual relationship. But holy cow, the experiences I've had since our D, wow. I mean WOW. I've dated some really beautiful young women that are major pleasers. I've lived every fantasy I ever had as a hormone-raging kid and then some, haha! At first I could scarcely believe these women were attracted to me, I think after BD we tend to feel like no one wants us and we're just pathetic, ugly losers. But once you start to realize there's a whole slew of women that are highly attracted to mature, successful men and you EMBRACE it and OWN it then the world is your oyster. When you do get around to dating I have an important tip for you- not every woman will find you attractive. Maybe you're too short, or too tall, or don't have enough hair, or have too much or whatever. THAT IS NOT REJECTION. It's just a mismatch. Skip her and move on. Too many guys take every mismatch personally and build up all kinds of crazy resentment over nothing. But look at it this way, if you have to meet 10 women to find 1 that is CRAZY for you then who cares what the other 9 think.
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So, thanks for the perspective. I am looking forward to having some awesome time between the sheets with someone way more dynamic.
It will happen when you are ready!
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Not just for the fitness aspect, but also for the community aspect.
Exactly why I recommend it, a few months in you'll have a whole other family. I'm so busy that I don't do much with them outside of the gym, but there are a lot of opportunities for that as well.
Originally Posted By: LH19
I just want to second CrossFit as the way to go. I started in December based on AS's recommendation and I fuching love it. I have worked on in a gym for years by myself with my headphones and it got monotonous.
CrossFit is totally different. It's very sociable and the workouts are different everyday. Other members encourage you to be better. I can already notice the muscles building in my legs that I would not do in the gym because I didn't like working on legs. Now I am forced to and loving the results.
It is a little pricey but is definitely worth it if you can swing it.
Awesome, glad to hear you're enjoying it! Agree with you on the legs, I was never big on doing legs at the gym but you have no choice in xfit, LOL! I was just driving in this morning thinking my work slacks are so tight in the quads/ hamstrings that soon I'll have to start getting tailored pants (I've needed tailored shirts for years). If you didn't sign up for the Open then I highly encourage you to do it, even if you don't think you're ready when next year rolls around you will be, and you'll wish you had the data from this year to compare your progress to.
Regarding the price, just for anyone out there reading this that doesn't know much about xfit, there is a lot of hands-on attention from coaches in the classes. So while it is more expensive than a traditional gym it is cheaper than a personal trainer. And while personal trainers are really just about pushing you to work hard, xfit trainers will coach you in proper form and technique in olympic-style lifting. It's money very well spent in my opinion.
You always come through AS!!!! Thanks for giving me a good glimpse of what is possible on the other side. I am looking forward to getting to a place where I will be ready to venture out in the dating world. Right now I am just focusing on my goals and meeting people and being social.
The pricing for Xfit definitely puts people off initially, but you're right. It is hella cheaper for what you're getting - access to amazing equipment and pro trainers who help you with your form and technique and coaching. It is actually quite a bargain when I calculate how much it would cost for me to get a personal trainer on top of a gym membership. Xfit is definitely worth the price. I would say that it is underpriced for what you're getting.
I am making some financial adjustments soon and joining this xfit gym by summer - there is absolutely no doubt about that. My blood pressure is in range now and that is what I was worried about most - I didn't want to crap out during a workout and end up in emergency. But, now with working out at home and upping my cardio slowly, I am going to be okay.
I am just trying to repair my ego. The negative self talk hasn't been good mentally and I am trying to find out ways to get out of the mental funk. I am doing better, but I need to meet more people and do some more GAL.
You know J, i dunno what it is. I know intellectually that W was a crappy spouse too, and what my value is and what kind of a person I am. But somehow, emotionally, I am just feeling a bit stuck lately. I don't understand why I am kinda hung up. I think it's just my depressive tendencies kicking in and I need to go chat with my IC to figure out strategies to manage it.
I am trying very hard to focus on myself being the prize and not Plan B. I just need to feel better about myself and self affirmations and self compassion needs to happen daily.
Quitting smoking has also created this void. It is getting less and less every day, but it has created a sense of emptiness. I am taking that as par for the course for life after quitting smoking. I just need to fill it up with something positive.
So, my mental funk might also be linked with having taken something out of my life, even though it was a negative thing.
Well hang in there dude....maybe your IC would be best. When I start to feel down I think about who I am and what I have to offer. I also think about what a crappy spouse she was as well. This morning I was running on the treadmill and got stuck in a loop. I cranked up the speed and powered through it, I shifted my mind to focusing on the workout and channeled the anger as I started sprinting and sweating harder.
Hi M, hang in there, the lows during this suck! For me, working out and mindfulness have lessened their impact. They're still there but not at the forefront. Time is our best and worst enemy. For me each day is so slow, overthinking everything but I know with time it will get easier.
Reading about AS's post D shenanigans has certainly lightened my mood!
Married 9, Together 16 M:39, W:41, S:11, S:7 BD: 12/3/2017 In house sep: 1/7/2018 EA: March 2017 (ongoing), PA: Yes ______________________________ Attempting to defy gravity, by falling up
Thanks for giving me a good glimpse of what is possible on the other side.
Of course!
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I am looking forward to getting to a place where I will be ready to venture out in the dating world. Right now I am just focusing on my goals and meeting people and being social.
Great focus! That's actually kind of an interim step to preparing yourself for dating, because you have to get past that "husband" mindset first (which is tough after you've been married a long time).
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I am making some financial adjustments soon and joining this xfit gym by summer - there is absolutely no doubt about that. My blood pressure is in range now and that is what I was worried about most - I didn't want to crap out during a workout and end up in emergency.
The workouts can be very, very taxing and there will be men and women there that are way above your skill level. And of course your tendency is to try and keep up with them (or at least mine was!) But just try to keep in mind that none of them started out at that level and scaling workouts back is completely acceptable. Even now having done it almost 2 years I rarely do workouts at the "RX" level. If you start feeling really winded then slow down! Whenever I start thinking I'm lagging too far behind the others I stop and ask myself "but are YOU getting a good workout?" Because that's all that really matters.
As a side note, one of my goals since starting there was to be able to do a bar muscle-up (in Crossfit it's kind of a "holy grail" to be able to do them). I kept trying and failing over and over again. Finally I was like "OK this isn't working, let's get back to basics." So I talked to guys there that could do them and asked for advise, I watched YouTube videos, and I came up with progression exercises. I quit trying to do them and instead worked on progressions in the gym before and after workouts (starting about a month ago). Yesterday one of the coaches opened the gym for a while (no set WOD, you do whatever you want on Sundays) so I went up there and was warming up with some progressions. I felt pretty good so decided to try again and did one so smoothly and easily it left me wondering why I had ever had trouble with them. And once I did one it just clicked in my head, I ended up doing a dozen mixed in with other stuff before I left for the day.
^^^ And I share that because for me that's what DB'ing is too, if what you are doing is not working then stop and go back to basics. Work on the smaller steps first, and then later the big steps won't seem so big after all.
Originally Posted By: Maika
But somehow, emotionally, I am just feeling a bit stuck lately. I don't understand why I am kinda hung up. I think it's just my depressive tendencies kicking in and I need to go chat with my IC to figure out strategies to manage it.
I am trying very hard to focus on myself being the prize and not Plan B. I just need to feel better about myself and self affirmations and self compassion needs to happen daily.
You're about 9 months post-BD now, for me that was just about the time that I started coming to grips with the fact that my M was not just going to "go back to normal" at some point and I was having to come to grips with establishing a "new normal". Part of that is figuring out who you are, what you want, and how you are going to go about that. It's a transition phase and there's a lot of soul-searching and confusion that goes with it. Try not to think of it as "being stuck" but rather as another step in the process of becoming who you will be moving forward.
Whenever I start thinking I'm lagging too far behind the others I stop and ask myself "but are YOU getting a good workout?" Because that's all that really matters.
Yeah totally! My aim with xfit first will be to learn the proper form and execute it well, and then load up over time. I want to be able to do this for many many years to come, so bad form just leads to injuries and then you're toast. I am taking the same approach with my climbing. I tried to go up the skill grades really fast and realized that I was just climbing sloppy and pushing my fingers beyond what they can do right now and risk injury. So, I scaled back massively and adjusted my goals to become a 'good, smart, and technically proficient' climber, rather than one that can climb the hardest grades. The hard grades will come in time and I want to enjoy the process rather than just focus on some outcome.
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You're about 9 months post-BD now, for me that was just about the time that I started coming to grips with the fact that my M was not just going to "go back to normal" at some point and I was having to come to grips with establishing a "new normal". Part of that is figuring out who you are, what you want, and how you are going to go about that. It's a transition phase and there's a lot of soul-searching and confusion that goes with it. Try not to think of it as "being stuck" but rather as another step in the process of becoming who you will be moving forward.
Yeah you're right AS.
I am digging deep right now to understand who I am and what I want, and the process of getting there. I saw W today briefly and I looked at her and thought to myself - do I really want to be with her? It wasn't an immediate yes but a weak maybe.
I think the sitch is heading into D territory slowly, which I am fine with. The growing pains of shedding the 'husband' identity and coming up with a personal identity has definitely been the process right now. I am getting there!
Yeah totally! My aim with xfit first will be to learn the proper form and execute it well, and then load up over time.
Yes, exactly! Heavier weights are a lot easier to lift when your form is dialed in. Try moving heavy weights too soon and you end up doing all kinds of weird cheats that just open you to up to injury.
That said, you'll experience a lot of new aches and pains starting out and have to work through them. I had severe shoulder pain that had me seriously thinking about quitting. I talked to the coaches and started going in earlier and added shoulder mobility to my warmups. A couple months later my shoulders were better than they have been in many years. Same thing happened when I started doing heavier squats and deadlifts, but with my hip joints. I cut back on the weights and eventually worked through it and started adding weight again and am now at new maxes (210% my bodyweight on deadlifts!) and pain-free. It's definitely a balancing act.
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So, I scaled back massively and adjusted my goals to become a 'good, smart, and technically proficient' climber, rather than one that can climb the hardest grades. The hard grades will come in time and I want to enjoy the process rather than just focus on some outcome.
Very cool, I bet that's a blast! Great GAL activity!
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I am digging deep right now to understand who I am and what I want, and the process of getting there. I saw W today briefly and I looked at her and thought to myself - do I really want to be with her? It wasn't an immediate yes but a weak maybe.
That's where I was at your point too. Wasn't sure one way or the other. Now it's a definite "no". For various reasons, that ship has sailed. I still have feelings for my XW and look back fondly on our years together. But recon? Not interested.
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The growing pains of shedding the 'husband' identity and coming up with a personal identity has definitely been the process right now. I am getting there!
I think you are probably doing a lot better than you think you are I know it's tough on you and some days are awful. But you've got a lot of inner strength and character that shows through here and it will carry you through this and you will come out of it as an unstoppable force. That's not a prediction, I know it will happen whether you know it yet or not
I cut back on the weights and eventually worked through it and started adding weight again and am now at new maxes (210% my bodyweight on deadlifts!) and pain-free. It's definitely a balancing act.
That's awesome man. Yeah, my goal would be similar as well. Get the form right, do stretches and make sure take the time for recovery, and keep adding the weight.
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That's where I was at your point too. Wasn't sure one way or the other. Now it's a definite "no". For various reasons, that ship has sailed. I still have feelings for my XW and look back fondly on our years together. But recon? Not interested.
Ha ha! I totally get that. I think I am very close to the 'no' zone and the D territory. I'll explain below.
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I think you are probably doing a lot better than you think you are
I think so too. I had this attractive woman flirt with me this morning as I got my coffee and for the first time I had a relaxed conversation with her. I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong. In the past I would've shut it down, but I am getting more comfortable with the 'husband' identity being shed.
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But you've got a lot of inner strength and character that shows through here and it will carry you through this and you will come out of it as an unstoppable force. That's not a prediction, I know it will happen whether you know it yet or not
Thanks AS! I appreciate the kind feedback. Sometimes it's hard to see if you've gotten stronger and improved, but I know I have and the time to take baby steps and reflect and act has been helpful.
So, in terms of me saying that I am closer to the 'no' & D zone is because I had a short interaction with W today and it didn't go so well. Basically, she's still got the same level of anger as I remember during BD. I hadn't done anything wrong and needed to chat with her about some kid stuff, which she twisted around and made it about something it was not.
I kept my cool and calm and just ended the convo after we finished discussing what it was. Despite NC/dark and giving her all the space in the world, she hasn't even gone down a grade in her anger. She had told me once after BD that it will take years for her to get past all of this.
Every time I've had a conversation with her, which have only been a handful in the past few months, she has always turned them around into something they're not and raged at me in some way.
So, this tells me that she's not taken any accountability for her actions and is still raging and blaming me for everything. I really don't see why I would want to be with her anymore. Today's convo just turned me off even more.
She needs to work through her anger and see someone professionally. She has a host of issues that she needs to deal with and she hasn't. I am not waiting around for years for her to figure this out. I am moving on and doing the best I can for myself and the kids.
I know this takes time, but no change in anger or her approach to conversations. I am just going to not engage over the phone. Keeping it strictly to texting and over serious business that needs to be discussed.
She just comes across as this hateful person who hasn't done anything to be self-critical and hold herself accountable and responsible for her actions. It's just so unattractive and I am done with it.
Dude...you are going to be far from fine you are going to be awesome! You’re a young man with a bright future ahead of you. This is just a blip on the radar of life. To take a quote from Swingers.......You’re so money you don’t even know your money!
I went to the gym this am and saw one of my Ws friends who got D’d last year. She just looked old and broken not high on life at all, no vibrance. Anyway that is how I am starting to view my W and as you continue to grow you will do the same. I feel so far beyond her at this point that I couldn’t imagine going back.
You know J, I already feel pretty good and regaining my personal identity. It has been a process but I am feeling quite good now. I think that emotional wreckage couple of weeks ago was a needed jab for me to not slack off the personal work.
TBH, I am feeling really really good today. I haven't felt like this in a long time. I like the skin I am in and what my values are. I am also feeling quite unaffected by W's raging and all of that.
I see her trying to grow a new skin and persona and it looks really fake. I think I see the type of person she wants to be, but it's quite inauthentic right now and maybe she'll grow into it and be that person. But, right now, I don't want to be with who she is. Also, I don't want to be with a rager who has no self-awareness lol.
I think I am truly seeing that life will be bright. I was trying to fake that but I can genuinely say that I am at a place that is peaceful and zen. I wish W all the best, but I don't want to have any part in what's going on with her. As long as kids are doing well with her, that's all that matters to me.
I was a bit sad to see how she talked to me the other night, just because it showed me that she's not done any personal work and grown. She's still stuck in that anger and rage and blameshifting. So I know she has a long road ahead for her personal recovery. That's why I am done because the path she has to walk is long and I don't think she's going to start on it any time soon. I am not waiting around. Not because I want to start dating, but I want to be in this world in a free way.
I am still sticking to my June timeline so no hasty steps, but I am feeling really good about who I am and what my values are. I wish her happiness and the best, but this is truly her loss. We could've built something new and strong.
but this is truly her loss. We could've built something new and strong.
Good, I am glad to hear you are doing better!
This has probably been the hardest part for me to come to grips with as well so I understand where you are coming from.
I just try to remember that it is more about them than us and just because we wanted a happy family, etc. doesn't mean that she currently values/wants the same thing.
I to think we could have grown together but now when I see her and get past her physical beauty I still see the same individual on the inside that hasn't changed. With all the work I have done I know that I deserve better.
I see her trying to grow a new skin and persona and it looks really fake. I think I see the type of person she wants to be, but it's quite inauthentic right now and maybe she'll grow into it and be that person. But, right now, I don't want to be with who she is. Also, I don't want to be with a rager who has no self-awareness lol.
Maika..... Great post!! This is exactly how I feel with my W. I keep this in my head probably way to much but if I was to meet this new version of my W now would I date or even consider a relationship with her. The answer is no way! wouldn't even give her a second glance, funny(or pathetic) how quickly things change!
This is a lot about her and some about me. The parts about me are resolvable and I have certainly shown the willingness to do it. She didn't show the same or want to do her own work.
I am happy with who I am and and the areas of my life that I have strengthened and will continue to do so.
Dusty - yeah, right now I can't imagine being with her. She's just someone completely different. I don't really recognize her and honestly not sure if I would ever date her if we met now.
Hey folks!! Not much has changed in the sitch with W. Still pretty much NC/dark and moving forward with my life.
After that tumultuous emotional period recently, I've come to a more emotional equilibrium. I feel pretty good and making improvements and working towards my goals. Still smoke free and haven't relapsed - not going to happen.
My perspective on getting a D hasn't changed. I was worried about if I file, then she gets to say that 'he did it and he wanted it' and whatever crap. But, to be honest, I really don't care about that at all anymore. She can use that to prove or disprove whatever theories or ideas she has in her head.
The fact is that if I had done what she did to me, she wouldn't have given recon a second thought. I am referring to the EA that she had around BD. So, why am I trying to revive something that got crushed? It took me a while, but it was because my ego was deeply bruised and hurt, and everything was spinning out of control. I have worked on both and coming to realize that I am worthy of love and compassion, and that I can only control myself and chart my own path.
So, I've been reminding myself of that a lot lately and it's helped with the emotions.
Also, a huge win has been my relationship with the kids. My control issues are pretty much gone with them and I am way more chill and laid back and so are the kids. This has been a super positive thing in the last few months. Just learning to not get riled up about stuff that doesn't really matter and understanding the roots of my control issues. I feel a lot better and more grounded now. Don't feel like I am in survival mode all the time.
Whatever is going on with W, I dunno. But, I know that I cannot take her back with all the issues she has. Also, I have realized that I cannot be with someone who doesn't own up to their $hit and work on it. She hasn't done that. Also, I am not waiting around for her to switch up and make those changes. I wasn't waiting in the first place, but I am not standing for my MR anymore.
I am waiting for my self-imposed 12 months to pass - which will be June this year - and then make the next move. The decision is between filing for D or continue to stand but keep moving forward. I am still feeling good about filing for D, but will see how I feel by June and then make the call.
I know what I have to offer and what kind of a person I am. What my values and boundaries are, and what I will and will not accept.
I cannot be with someone who is weak, full of anxiety, and has little self-respect and self-love. I know that I had little self-respect and self-love for myself, but I changed that up and gained my confidence and respect back. More than anything, I learned to love who I was for who I am from within, rather than saying that I will love myself when I achieve x or become like this. I learned to love myself with all my strengths and flaws and warts n all.
So, I am in a good place. I am still working out and climbing like a fiend. I am so happy being athletic again. I want to date some fit ladies who are into the same things as me
All in all, everything is really great. I am loving my new life every day now.
Good update M...thanks for catching us up. It sounds like you are doing great and continuing to move forward. The longer your sitch continues the more distant you will grow from your W and you will really start to see her for who she is. It sounds like you are starting to make those realizations. I also felt that the longer it went on the harder it would be recon as well.
I like your confidence, it sounds like you got your swag back!
Hey everyone!! Not much has changed but I had an awesome weekend and lotsa good pick-me-up stuff that has motivated me even more about moving my life forward.
I have a question for anyone who might have experience with this.
W isn't interested in doing MC or even IC for herself, which is none of my concern. What I am looking at is doing a co-parenting counseling or course. Does anyone have experience doing this and how it went? Did it improve your co-parenting?
I found an online course that seems to be great, which I can also do for myself and doesn't have to be with her. The course option seems better so that we don't have to be sitting in the same room together. She's still seething with anger and I don't want to create any interactions where that might just derail some positive efforts.
So, I am thinking of doing the course and also suggesting it to her to do it. Does that classify as pursuing? I just want to do things that will improve the kids lives and also give us skills to handle things better. But, I don't know if this will flame the situation further.
She had after BD mentioned doing a communication or co-parenting counseling, but never followed up on it.
She's just been too angry to even interact with me in person without looking like she wants to beat the crap out of me. I just interact with her pleasantly and calmly - simple Hi Hello stuff. It's been a stretch for her to even manage that type of minimal conversation. The kids are seeing all of this and I feel that it is not optimal for them. So, I want to change it up. i don't care if she's angry or whatever, but I want her to handle that when we have to interact in-person. Now, I don't know how to say that without making the situation worse. Hence, the co-parenting course suggestion - but that also could make the situation worse.
Or I don't do anything about it and just handle myself. I don't know what's the best way to go about this.
Hey M...I have no experience with these classes but IMO if she is still pissed off and angry she probably will not want to hear anything you have to say or suggest. It sounds like she is still in the "I am better than M" phase and still needs more time and space.
Hey J! Yehhh.. she's more like - I am super pissed off at M for everything that went wrong in the MR and it is totally his fault and he is the whole reason for my unhappiness and misery.
I feel like anything I will say or suggest will be taken the wrong way and so that's why I am hesitating to bring it up. But, at the same time, her behaviour is not helping the situation when we have to interact in-person with the kids. The kids are old enough to see the dynamics.
Last time she just avoided me in the public place for as long as possible and then she barely managed to say hi with a glare of death. I was positive and happy and didn't let her anger and mood throw me off my game. But kids saw all of that and I don't think it's helping the situation.
I think I might take the co-parenting course just for myself and see if it is useful for how I parent. But maybe suggesting to her right now is not the best option.
If the kids see that your in-person interactions aren't going well and you are sure it is bad for them, tell her written communication from now on. A simple boundary to protect the kids.
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
So, I am thinking of doing the course and also suggesting it to her to do it. Does that classify as pursuing?
Definitely not pursuing, it's for the kids.
Quote:
But, I don't know if this will flame the situation further.
I can't imagine it would, and if it does that says more about her than you.
Quote:
She had after BD mentioned doing a communication or co-parenting counseling, but never followed up on it.
There's your "in" right there. Tell her that you are following up on her comment that it would be helpful and that you found this class. Tell her you are going to do it and send her the info, but don't invite her to take it or ask her if she's taking it. Leave that up to her.
Michele says in one of her books that while asking out the WAS is pursuit, "inviting" them along to something you are ALREADY doing is not. IE, if you're going to a theme park with the kids you can say "hey we are going to WAS-Land (wouldn't that be a fun theme park, kind of like visiting an asylum ) on Sunday, you are welcome to join if you wish. Then if she says no, you go anyway. And post pics on FB of the great time you had
Why is she angry? well, the short of it is that she thinks that I Am the cause of all her unhappiness and that I held her back and I didn't care etc etc. Sorry, I don't mean to diminish legitimate parts of her anger, but she thinks it's all my fault. I obviously don't agree with that.
The in-person interaction isn't serious or to discuss anything. I see her at kids extra-curricular stuff on the weekends. I choose to be there for my kids and so I have to interact with her, even if it's just basic hi and hello. She's had a hard time doing even that the last few times - but this was specifically related to me standing my ground and not rolling over to her demands. I just reiterated what we had agreed upon and she twisted it around by saying that she interpreted it differently. But, she didn't get her way and so she was pissed - which just added to the giant flame ball of anger that she's already carrying around.
I do most things written, but basic civil and cordial behaviour when I see her in-person. She couldn't manage that the last few times and so she needs to handle her emotions better in front of the kids.
Btw, just following the xfit open workouts and it's bananas lol. hope you're making out alright.
I've RX'd all the workouts, but WOW it's been tough this year! The one last week had so much packed into it and then they throw a 9 minute cap on it, it's like SERIOUSLY GUYS??? This week is the last one and I won't be sorry to see it go, LOL! Last year they saved the longest cap for last, it was 40 minutes. So I suspect they'll do the same this year since all the other ones have been relatively short.
After a lot of progression work I finally did my first bar muscle-up a couple of weeks ago! That's kind of a rite of passage in our box Once I got that first one the light bulb went off and I do them before and/or after every workout now!
Last time she just avoided me in the public place for as long as possible and then she barely managed to say hi with a glare of death.
Dude...my W did the same crap about 1.5 months after BD when I was feeling weak and lacked confidence. She sat there on the edge of a swimming pool taking selfies acting like she was soo much better than me. Showing off to her friends. So I can relate.
It sounds like you handled it much better than I did!
The interesting thing about your W is that she did not start off angry. You guys went out, she was inviting you over for dinner, hanging out etc. Mine was angry and has now started to warm up....yours was being nice to you and is now off the rails.
AS - wow!! Sounds like you've progressed quite a bit. The bar muscle up is definitely quite an achievement. Some of those xfit folks make it look so easy lol. Keep it up! Hopefully I'll be there with you in next year's open.
J9 - Her anger has never really let up since BD and doing NC and giving her space has been good for me cuz I don't need that in my face. But the recent angry responses and silent treatments have been due to me standing up for myself and not letting her push me around on stuff we had agreed upon. She forgot and misinterpreted our agreement and I showed it to her, which she didn't like. But I didn't care because I am not going to be pushed around.
I was cordial and pleasant about it but didn't take crap from her. So, she just lumped her anger about that with everything else. Also seems that she's maybe feeling some loss with the kids being away 50% of the time. Don't know how true it is, but I think some losses are coming to the forefront. I think maybe her fantasy is slowly getting punctured now.
I am doing great and still an ex-smoker Working out and climbing and now slowly adding more things to the mix, which is great.
Congrats on still being an ex-smoker, brother. I wish I could say the same. I will get there slowly.
As far as her anger, you just have to roll with the punches and realize that it isn't you.
xW used to do that to me when she didn't get her way, and I excplicitly called her out on it. "You know, I am just going to point out that you only get mad at me when you don't get your way. I don't do that to you, and I will continue to stand my ground. You can either get mad and throw a fit when you don't get what you want, or we can work together as adults"
Her behavior has since changed when she doesn't get her way.
Married 9: Together 11 M:37 W:35 S:2 D:7 Bomb dropped 6/3/2017 W moved out 7/1/2017 Separation Filed: 8/1/2017 Modified to Divorce: 8/21/2017 Divorced: 10/5/2017
Hey JM!!! Good to see you pop by. hopefully things are going well for you.
Yeah, her anger is all about her and I am not going to stop being assertive and standing up for myself and holding the line to things we agreed upon.
Her texts have improved since I just didn't react to her nonsense. She was baiting me into a fight and I just didn't engage. It's amazing how you can now see when they are being passive aggressive and just trying to get you in a fight.
My non-engagement with all that bull$hit probably sent a message that I won't entertain all of that. Also, I don't need that headache and I have moved on mentally and I truly don't give a crap about how she deals with all of this and reacts to stuff. I got way more awesome stuff to deal with in my life and time is running fast.
I am in a good place mentally and emotionally. Something changed within me and I am feeling way better, calmer, and looking forward to all that life has to offer and going after what I want. She's not in the future picture and I am okay with that.
I am in a good place mentally and emotionally. Something changed within me and I am feeling way better, calmer, and looking forward to all that life has to offer and going after what I want. She's not in the future picture and I am okay with that.
Been reading here and there for a while and seeing the number of new folks joining the forum at a breakneck speed is bittersweet – realization that I am not alone and also sad that so many people are facing these issues.
Things with W are the same. Saw her today briefly and she does not look that great – looks like she’s aged so much in the last six months. Usual simple conversation and brief exchange – polite, pleasant, but formal and businesslike. Still no evidence of an A, but if she’s involved with someone, I just have pity for her as whatever that is, it cannot be a good thing for either party.
I am coming out of the woodwork a bit based on a comment by PsySara on NicoleR’s thread – “I also feel let down by DBing, let’s face it, I could read any self help book to work on myself but I wanted to save my marriage. That didn’t happen and I feel disappointed my children will be from a divorced household.”
You know, that kinda hit me. Of course we can read self-help books to improve ourselves and the mantra – DB can save you, and if it saves your marriage as well it’s a bonus – can start to feel like false advertising as we came here to save our marriage’s as the first priority. But, that’s not what people are finding. Even though I totally understand that sentiment, I find that DB is about stabilizing the LBS and giving them a space to breathe and gain perspective.
I would’ve never even gotten to the self-improvement part of this equation if I hadn’t been able to ground myself through DBing. I was a hot mess after BD and blaming myself for everything and not being able to look at the marriage with objectivity. DBing – no contact, going dark, GAL, self-reflection etc – all of that allowed me to stand on my two feet without falling over. If it wasn’t for that, I have no idea where I would be right now – 9 months post BD going strong and head/emotions straight. DBing allowed me to slow down and recognize that it takes two hands to clap, and that I wasn’t the most horrific person on the planet as I was thinking about myself.
DBing also allowed me to understand that even though my W basically treated me like trash and threw me out like garbage, I had value and that others saw that value in me, but most importantly that I could see that value in myself – that I was capable of receiving love and being loved. That this one person wasn’t going to define my value for me.
And let’s face it – BD is the declaration that the marriage is dead, but it’s been dead for one person for a long time before the pronouncement. And when the LBS realizes that the marriage was a piece of garbage and that they weren’t the only one responsible for its demise, there is no desire for the LBS to go back to that marriage. I certainly hope not a single LBS here will take their partner back just the way they were because you’ve just kicked another can of BD down the road.
As I see it, DBing is about bringing back the genuine spark and desire to be with the other person, and then translating that into a new marriage. But for that, the LBS has to cocoon themselves and fortify themselves to be able to get back to their old self with new and improved features. And it has to be authentic and to be done for themselves without any hope for recon. And then, maybe, just maybe, the other person will see that there is more value in recon than separation/divorce. If that point comes, the LBS then has the option to recon or move ahead in their life without their previous partner.
So, all in all, DBing is about saving marriages and relationships, but not at the cost of the LBS interests. I most certainly would want to have another shot at the marriage, for the sake of my children, and hoping that my W would want to undertake a process to improve herself so that she could be a strong person and a better partner. But, all of that part is out of my control and I could follow Sandi’s rules to the T and there is no guarantee.
I get being disheartened that your partners haven’t turned around back towards you. But, I also have faith that there is a lot more in store for me and my children, and so much of that is in my control. I hope you also get there and feel the same in time.
I would say that I have come to a place where I am a lot more calm and collected than before, and that I am not doing anything as a tactic or strategy to get my W to pay attention to me. I am basically being true to myself and what feels right to me and I have stopped worrying about whether this will have a positive or negative impact with W.
I don’t think my sitch is going to result in recon and I am okay with that. DBing will not give me a chance at another shot at my marriage, but it certainly set me on a good path to find a better partner and also be a better partner as well. I don’t say that as some mantra, but as a true success story. I know the final pages are still to be written on my marriage, but I am more than okay with the ending that I see coming.
I hope that other LBS’s who are disheartened see that there is so much more to gain in life than this one person and what they have done. Our children deserve our stronger selves and I most certainly am not going to let them down, no matter what the other person does. I can tell you that my kids adore me and love spending time with me, and vice versa. Is it the most optimal situation – no, but you can either just keep grieving the loss or take time to process it and double down on your parenting with them and find those moments of joy. I got robbed of 50% of my kids lives and I can’t do $hit about it – plain and simple. You don’t need to learn to accept it and it being a ‘new normal’, but you can figure out how to live with it and take your rage out in productive ways. Yes, take up lifting weights and knock that sucker out.
There are so many success stories here and I hope that people see the spectrum of victories rather than just focusing on whether LBS’s got another shot at their marriage. There are so many amazing LBS’s here, and their partners are absolute fools to have left them.
Maika, that was such a thoughtful and well-written post you wrote. I hope I get a chance to respond tomorrow. You're a great role model. It's helpful to hear your thought process. Thanks for sharing.
M, very good last post. I’m in the first month since moms drop and have been feeling down, reading your post has helped me to pick my head up some. Thanks and take care.
M:26 WAW:26 T:11 M:7 D:3 BD 1 10/16 I love you but not in love BD 2 2/18 I love you but... W moves out 3/18
Let me just say something that I have observed, its first came to me when reviewing a post by Cherry who completely lost her attraction for a WH who became ugly and decompensated. I am referring here to waywards not walkaways. In that scenario, one to Tango really helps. The M that I have seen repaired here have almost exclusively with walkaways, usually W, and the H DB really helps. Sadly many R on this board are with waywards, compulsives and abusives.
It's partly lifestyle, a party lifestyle, alcohol, poor sleep habits, bad food, instability in daily habits such as lack of exercise that causes deterioration in the wayward. It's written all over them.
It's more than that, imagine this:
You have a hole in your soul and you know it. You have caused pain and hurt to those you said you loved and cared for. To justify your new lifestyle then you must rewrite your history, blame the LBS, behave crummy, possibly even lose family and friends. You have the uncertainty of being with a new partner who cheated with you and may likely cheat on you. The sex is addictive but probably unloving. You have affair down, you have to deal with a legal system and are (in most cases) going to be short of funds. This means you might build debt, you may not care now but life builds on you.
You are deteriorating and you know it and really don't care much. You have it covered.
In order to 'get through' then you may cross the Rubicon, your LBS loves you and they are clearly chasing, begging and pleading. Please stay, think of our children, your M, reconsider please, pretty please. Will ya? Makes it safer to have a schmuck or chump to fall back on, heavens they can even be persuaded to leave the MBR and MH. They even leave it to you to do the D, giving you every thing you want. What's not to like? If they don't you can blame, press buttons, threaten, intimidate and lie.
Your life is a lie from first thing in the morning to last thing at night. The A (or As) is in the open so no double life, you BD. The manipulation starts, you need resources to continue your awful lifestyle.
Then change, your LBS stays in the MBR and MH, they start to move on. They get fit, eat healthy, relate better to the kids, go out, dress better, eat better. Generally get their stuff together.
You are deteriorating and the LBS is getting detached. You rage and manipulate, you test and you decide and you may not care. Bravado.
You look in the mirror and decide the person looking back is not you. But it is the truth and you deny.
You either get your act together or you don't care because you are disordered or you have gone too far or you simply haven't gone far enough.
Your LBS files, they use the LRT technique, they may even start going no contact. They are angry, they go through the Kubler Ross cycle. You might persuade them you want to R when secretly hiding your old behaviours. The cycle may start again.
Eventually the LBS reaches disgust and at that point they are gone. There is no going back, even if you wanted to. Doesn't matter to you, that's what you think, you get a new partner and try to rebuild. The ex is paying but it's all down hill for you.
I always believe at the end of the day it's the LBS has the choice.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Great post Maika!! I just wanted to add something, not to you so much because clearly you "get it" but to newer people here who may read some of the negative comments about DB'ing and get discouraged:
Originally Posted By: Maika
I am coming out of the woodwork a bit based on a comment by PsySara on NicoleR’s thread – “I also feel let down by DBing, let’s face it, I could read any self help book to work on myself but I wanted to save my marriage. That didn’t happen and I feel disappointed my children will be from a divorced household.”
Yeah, I get that. The biggest problem with ANY marriage saving approach is typically the LBS doesn't begin applying it until it is very, very late in the game. If we knew about DB'ing before then many of us could have turned things around before we ever got close to being BD'd. But once a WAS is to the point of BD, it is a monumental task to turn them around. But if the point is that DB'ing is a failure if you don't save your M, then I would say this- what about your next R or M? Do you really think this is your last one? I've been dating my GF for 3 years and got a mini BD not too long ago. We started talking and I was shocked to hear a lot of the same things my ex said after BD (she didn't feel good enough for me, felt I was too critical, did not give her reassurances about the R, etc.) Seems I got a little complacent and fell into old habits. But here is the difference this time- I SAW THE WARNING SIGNS RIGHT AWAY. As soon as I heard her say these things my attitude wasn't to tune it out and write it off as "nagging" like I would have before. I swung into full-blown DB'ing mode. I listened, I validated, I gave her time and space. The result was it brought us closer than ever before. We opened up to each other and really shared our thoughts and feelings. We reconned without ever really breaking up.
And besides that, you never know what the future holds. There's my friend I mention now and then that remarried his ex 10 years after their divorce. So when someone here says DB'ing "failed" them, I say come back in 10 years when you are remarried to your ex or saving your next R and tell me if you still think DB'ing is a failure
I wanted to add one small post about the ultimate fate of a wayward.
Once again from the waywards perspective.
You have lied and cheat and manipulated. You have misused your body and mind, possibly with substances or alcohol or smoking or compulsions.
You are truly empty and have poor cognitive functions, your wits, health and looks are declining. You may have a damaged liver, kidneys, lungs and likely poor health with serious amyloid deposits.
Cognitive function starts to decline, because you are emotionally dysregulated and can't self sooth then starting to be unpleasant to be around.
Keeping your mask on takes lots of energy, you may persuade some folks although because you always move on in your life, your friendships aren't deep or meaningful. If you have a partner then communication is likely to be poor.
As you are impulsive then you spend money to buy company and items you think you need to maintain your veneer. It's hard work as you get older and you get weak. You never really had any true interests of your own, being a chameleon you adopted those of each partner. Your R are shallow like your affect. Your children likely don't love or like you, they see how you treated the other parent, how you had affairs, how you abandoned and they feel that too.
Your behaviour leaves you without the peace of spirituality and you age poorly, you see this as weakness. You can't maintain your health.
Statistically because of your choices you are likely to get dementia and degenerative diseases which you do not suffer well. You don't know how. Even if you have really been vain and looked after your physical health, mentally the stress of pretending to be some one you aren't takes its toll. You can't keep the lies together.
You are most likely to commit suicide, end up in a hostel (if male) and on benefits, having not saved for your pension.
Your LBS being very fond of DB, being authentic but damaged temporarily by you, has grown, takes extreme care of themselves. Is loved by their children with family and friends. They are active, positive, optimistic and recovered.
The LBS knows a healthy R from an unhealthy one, has an equal loving partner in life. They grow and have a good old age, dying with their higher spirit connected and in peace with themselves. Of course their fins were damaged but they recovered through determination and hard work. They have sufficient and they have love of self, with their higher spirit and those around them. Living an enriched life.
So Karma was there all along.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks everyone for adding more to this conversation. V - you paint quite the picture and it is truly sad to see that this can be the fate for many of the wayward folks. It's interesting to see that you have seen most recons happen with walkaways rather than waywards - I remember somewhere Michele talking about how turning the ship around with walkaways was so much harder.
The other thing I wanted to add, a point which I've seen AS make many times - DB is probably one of your best chances to turn things around in your MR. You saw that begging pleading and all of that didn't work and actually created more disrespect and nonsense for the LBS.
If you didn't try DB, what else did you have in mind to try and save your MR? At least DB gives you a good chance to get your MR a second new and improved life, and on top it gives the LBS a real opportunity for personal growth.
And do you honestly want to go back to the same person who walked out on you / cheated on you?
So, I don't know the success rate for DBing, if you measure success as only reconciliations. But I can't imagine it being any worse than anything else out there.
So, I think I am reaching a place of loving detachment. Something interesting happened.
I was dropping off the kids at W's today and she messaged me to let her know when we were leaving - which at first glance I thought was odd. Why would she want to know when we left my place? I was going to be at her place in a certain time window that she knew about. Instead of getting annoyed by it I decided to just investigate my feelings and thoughts with curiosity.
Some things that came to my mind:
1. Maybe she needs to clean up all the wine bottles and beer cans from a party last night so it's all clean for the kids. 2. She needs to kick out the guy who stayed over night before we get there. 3. She needs to have a quick morning sex session before the kids get there. 4. She's become super time organized and needs to know exactly when we'll be at her doorstep to plan her day accordingly.
I couldn't think of any other options, but I am sure doodler will if he ever gets to this. I just kinda laughed at all those thoughts and asked myself why it would bother me? I asked myself if I was ready to jump in bed with her and the answer to that was a clear no. So, if she's bangin' some dude, why should I care if it happened last night or if there was some quickie action going on before we got there. So what if she partied last night.
Anyways, the point of this is that I just realized that I am not actually annoyed about this anymore as it's her own life and she can do what she wants. I know my boundaries and that's good enough.
After this thought process, I just chuckled to myself and went about my day. Still not sure why she send me that message, and it doesn't matter.
If I was totally detached, I wouldn't have gone through this mental process, so I know I still have some ways to go. But, not being sucked into mind reading games and being calm and cool has provided a great relief.
Turning things around with walkaways can be harder for the LBS. That's because the LBS has to look deeply at themselves, which requires a lot of work, IC and possibly FOO work. Trouble is on this board the walkaway is just about to runaway. I always think a wayward has a Plan A and Plan B. The walkaway usually has no plan but running.
When a spouse is wayward, the behaviour is such that it is possibly very little to do with the LBS. Of course we can own our side of the street. But often the LBS is perfectly ok, some tidying and acknowledging, growth. Dealing with a wayward is tough going and will certainly test the LBS and cause great pain.
Dealing with your own stuff and DB is under the LBS control. Wayward stuff never is. Walkaways are determined but rational and hurting from the loss. You can't have your old R or M, but new ones can be created. Walkaways will acknowledge their role, waywards know but blame. The unrepentant wayward is a pathetic creature even if willful and raging.
I haven't been into the dark morrass of the MLC forum because I don't believe in MLC. But those lads and lasses hang on for dear life, hoping for change working on themselves.
My M wasn't sex less either and there are no kids.
And no one should stay in an abusive R or M in my view that's never curable. It's dangerous and exceedingly damaging. That was my sitch, severe abuse by a dedicated destructive malevolent wayward who was and still is compulsive. He has reached almost alcoholic deterioration with an OW9 who is in Italy. Might be OW10 in timbuctu for all I care. He is to get another lump sum from me which will send him into the pit of hell of destruction.
I am very clear on it, on this board I can count few M repaired with a wayward. There are more repaired with a walkaway, at one stage I tracked 100 peeps, I chose those who had at least 1.5 threads. The majority I tracked 85% did not repair at all (or disappeared). At least 8% were abuse sitches or mental illness. There were two who I considered to be abusive themselves in that number.
I stopped tracking when my own sitch exploded.
I am a walkaway not a wayward, but I DB my sitch until the abuse escalated beyond my ability to cope. I was targeted by a conman, nothing I could have done would have made any difference.
DB did save my life, concentrating on those principles held me together. Am I unhappy my M wasn't saved? Of course I stand for M I still do, I believed in my vows. Saving my M was my goal when I came here, instead DB saved me.
V
Last edited by Cadet; 04/02/1804:33 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Maika, your thread was already so far from the first page I got to this last and now I'm so late going to bed. I wanted to say though that your DB story isn't over. I'm starting to think it takes many years to know how a story ends. There's no way your wife won't stop and re-think her decision someday. Maybe you'll already be re-married or in a new relationship or not interested.
I do agree that if begging and pleading doesn't work then DB is the only other option. Probably most people eventually detach and move on anyway, but it seems like DB is meant to be used immediately before divorce happens so the context in which the techniques are practiced is specific.
I guess what I expected from DB, and why I selected it, is to stop a divorce from happening. That's why it's called what it is. That's great it's also a self-help book and helps people to embark on a journey of personal growth. It's probably not the book I'd choose for that purpose, but it does a good job of laying out a clear list of actions to take right at the time when you need them.
I've been feeling disappointed with DB, but I want to read the threads about the success stories and also wait to see what happens with my marriage. To some degree DB may have thwarted the divorce my husband threatened. By doing a better job of following DB more recently the situation is now better. In the fall I was seriously ill and just eating was extremely painful so I was limited in what I could do. Now that I'm getting better I can focus more on the other stuff....so who knows. It would appear to my husband that I've done a 180 and that I've changed, but I myself know that I have a long way to go. Privately I still go through a lot of stages of thinking every day. I'd rank my situation as among the worst since this is the second time my husband left and we barely talk. There are so many posting here who still share a bed with their spouse, live with them, go to counseling with them....there's so much more potential in those situations than in the ones where the spouse is totally physically and emotionally gone. At least that's how I see it.
I need to refresh myself on what a wayward vs. a walkaway is. I haven't picked up the book lately.
Maika, regardless of anything you're in good shape now. You've worked hard and you're seeing the results. It seems once you get on an upward trajectory the benefits are almost exponential because each accomplishment builds on the rest. I hope things keep going well for you and you get through the divorce, if that needs to happen, so you can be free to possibly date and re-marry someday.
Last edited by Cadet; 04/04/1811:24 PM. Reason: Start a new thread message
I know it's tough on you and some days are awful. But you've got a lot of inner strength and character that shows through here and it will carry you through this and you will come out of it as an unstoppable force. That's not a prediction, I know it will happen whether you know it yet or not 