I totally get what you mean by being disappointed with DB as it didn't just turn things around. But we all know that if there was a magic cure to this, then all marriages could be turned around and restored - which is obviously not the case.
I would suggest that when you have some time to reflect - after you move and get your job and get settled - think about what are you specifically attached to about your previous MR? I sense, once you find that, you will be able to figure out how to let it go and not want to go back to your MR.
Do you really want to have a MR with this man who cheated on you, left you twice and has been an a$$ to you? I think that once you get some distance, you will be able to allow your self-respect and self-worth to blossom and realize what a piece of trash your H has been to you. Believe in yourself and who you are what you bring. You deserve better than him. Your daughter deserves a better parent than him.
Let him go! Stop worrying about him. Just worry about you and your daughter.
One of the things that I have been struggling with is self-forgiveness. So, I decided to write out everything that W said I fu$%ed up in the MR, and things that I thought I failed at.
I wrote that list and then next to it I wrote what I was going through at that period in my life - various stages and causes of depression, being unhappy with W but not being able to communicate it, feeling overwhelmed and alone etc.
I put all my failings in their proper context to understand what I could've done better. And I realized that even though I could've done better in some situations, so much of it was because I wasn't happy with myself and mentally unwell. Also, that my W never pushed me to get help or support me and be there for me. Not that your partners are responsible for your wellbeing, but if they know and sense it, then I feel they should be bringing it up and talking to you about it and helping you be better - my W never did that even though she admitted that she knew I was depressed.
Now that I have made this list and put it in it's proper context, I can start practicing self-forgiveness. I also created a list of things that I did well in the MR and how I improved during the MR and after BD. This is to also show myself that I did some frikkin' awesome things in the MR and was a great partner and father to my kids.
I also made a list of qualities and personality traits that I want in a partner. Now I have more clarity on this. I guess I am prepping for D to happen - well, I'm getting closer to the point where I am good to file, but not until end of June.
In other news with W, we had some pleasant text messages yday and today - totally around kids and their issues, but still good. Nothing to read into there, but this is a 180 for me as I just didn't want to have any communications with her. I had a hard time being super pleasant and all of that jazz. I know that I have some vestiges of anger left, but it's slowly going away and I was able to engage in some banter without having any expectations or it going anywhere.
Gotta go pick up some new climbing gear today and I am excited about that. My skill level is moving from intermediate to advanced and the work is paying off getting stronger and technically better every week.
I am doing great folks. Making moves this year and 2018 has shaped up to be good so far.
hey man I just wanted to let you know that I just read your situation from start to finish. What a damn inspiration. Some of your responses in the way that you handled situations are solid gold man I'm going to bookmark your thread for when I'm having a rough day.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Wow! That's a lot of reading. I am glad to hear you found some things to store away for a rainy day, but hopefully a lot of things that you can start doing now. I can't stress how important this community has been for my growth. Way too many people to acknowledge.
I'd recommend reading Joseph9's journey and Benito's journey. Benito's threads were archived, but he still has a thread kicking around that you can find.
This community is amazing. You will hear things here that feel counter intuitive, but know that advice is not given lightly and I have benefited from everyone commenting on my threads, even if I disagreed with them. Gave me lots to think about.
Maika, that's nice you and your wife were able to text about the kids. That'll help a lot and benefit them if you two can continue doing that.
It's great that you're making such a specific intentional effort to forgive yourself. You're an action and goal oriented person and you can see from reading your thread how this mindset has helped propel you forward.
Thanks for the kind words Nicole. Yes, I am trying to actively work through my emotions and issues and translate that into action, not just think and analyze it intellectually. It's helped me immensely in my detachment process and also building self-confidence and self-value. By listing all the things I did well in the MR and my life, I was able to balance out the negative stuff and realize that I am just human. I did the best I could in those circumstances, and that this is not all my fault.
Yes, it's good we can text and be civil with each other. Especially in front of the kids, which is the most important thing for me. I am going to catch up on your thread but I know you've moved and getting settled. Congrats on that and I look forward to hearing about your new work and life with your daughter.
Yo M......I read that one of the signs that indicate if your ready to date or not is if you are no longer angry at your W/H. The same article also indicated that another indication is if you have acknowledged and accepted your role in the relationship and your contribution to the failure of it.
It's good to hear that you are processing your emotions especially for your kids. It will be a huge benefit to them if they see mommy and daddy interacting positively. Especially when it comes to Birthday's, Mothers Day/Fathers Day, etc.
It was my EW's birthday yesterday so I took the girls out shopping so they could get her a few little things to give to her, along with a small cake and a card (they had been asking me for weeks). They asked me what I got her and I told them the presents we got where from all of us.
So she came over to the house and we did the birthday thing for about 20 min and then she left.
I was just happy that I was in a good place emotionally to do this for my girls.
Those are good points J. I don't think I am angry with her and I know that I have acknowledged and accepted by role in the demise of the MR.
But I don't feel like putting any effort for Mothers Day and her birthday. Kids do stuff at school for Mothers day so that's covered. For her bday, I don't feel any reason to do anything. Now, is it because I am angry? I think it's more like she wanted a S, and so that means that I am done and the cord is cut. She's out of my life except where it intersects for the kids.
I do see your point about doing it and what you did for your EW with your girls - you've unlocked the next level of zen detachment I hope to get there some day.
But, I think even though I am not angry, I might have resentment towards W for just throwing everything and not giving it another chance. I thought as a partner, you at least deserve that - but maybe I have unrealistic expectations and you're not entitled to anything in any relationship. Or is that too cynical?
Your W did pretty much the same thing as mine - no second chance for anything. How did you deal with that? Don't you have some resentment over that?
You will get there......outside of sex (I will admit she looked hot last night) I don't feel that I am missing out on anything that my W has to offer. She hasn't changed, she is still the same person, I don't see that her life is so great, I don't see her growing as a person which is why I don't harbor those feelings. I am sad for my kids but that is about it.
If you are really honest with yourself where you truly happy in your MR? Now you might have been willing to stick it out etc. but if your W never changed and didn't want to work on the issues you had would you have filed for D and walked or would you have stuck it out for your kids? I would have stuck it out but knowing what I know now I should have voiced my concerns to her vs just accepting things as is.
Unfortunately no one owes us anything.....I am a firm believer that this happened to me for a reason and I am a better man for it. My EW is the big looser in all of this. She did me a favor as I have learned things that I would have never learned before. I have grown in ways I never thought possible.....
Just remember you don't want marriage 1.0 back you want marriage 2.0 but that means she is willing to do the work as well. That work will probably not be done on your timeline. It might take D to make it happen. It might mean that it takes her to experience some harsh realities of living a dating life. Maybe some dude does her dirty and that causes her to realize that M wasn't that bad after all. By then M has a beautiful lady by his side, has moved on with his life and maybe the prospects of her getting her back don't matter. Maybe M realizes that she is the love of his life and they reunite.
The dating life for a single lady with two young kids can't be that easy......the amount of quality men out there that are available is pretty slim. She is not only dating for herself but she also has to picture that man with her kids as well and trust me you as the children's father will be the barometer. Most dudes are d-bags and at my age most of them look twice their age and have not done the work we have. I had a lady tell me last week I looked 38.....I was like cool I will take it
My own ego tells me that my W will never find anyone better than me. My ego also tells me that she knows better than to introduce some d-bag to me or my kids. That if/when she does she better be able to do it and look me square in the eye with confidence not look the other way or look down. She knows, trust me she knows.
This is how I can have my EW come over to the house so my kids can celebrate her birthday. I know who I am, where I am going and am totally confident and comfortable in that setting. Besides it's my house if she doesn't like it she can get the f out Her name is no longer on the deed This is being true to who I am and for me it shows my strength that I can be in her presence with no expectations and it shows my girls that daddy is not an angry SOB.
I also understand she could have picked up some dude last and they were banging all night long. Whatever......I guarantee you he doesn't have anything on me
O - I hope you can find things that are useful. When my sitch first went down I spent hours on this site every day reading through any material I could to help get me through the dark days and to help make sense of what was transpiring.
I would read stuff from AS, Sandi and ACC....then I would see someone else comment on their posts that hit home to me and then I would go read their posts and dove tail into stuff from many other people from 10 to 15 years ago. It helped me heal.
I didn't save my MR but I was able to save myself and that is more important.
I know things seem dark right now but just know that you will be just fine if you do the work.
You will get there......outside of sex (I will admit she looked hot last night) I don't feel that I am missing out on anything that my W has to offer. She hasn't changed, she is still the same person, I don't see that her life is so great, I don't see her growing as a person which is why I don't harbor those feelings. I am sad for my kids but that is about it.
I concur with you here. Nothing about my W or her life is attractive to me right now. Also, the last few times I have seen her, she hasn't looked that great. she looks tired and worn out. Sad for the kiddos for sure.
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If you are really honest with yourself where you truly happy in your MR? Now you might have been willing to stick it out etc. but if your W never changed and didn't want to work on the issues you had would you have filed for D and walked or would you have stuck it out for your kids? I would have stuck it out but knowing what I know now I should have voiced my concerns to her vs just accepting things as is.
I know that I wasn't happy, with the knowledge I have now I can honestly say that. But during it, I thought this is what a MR is about - sometimes it's just a slog and you have to get through it. I know I would've stuck it out for the kids and I hope that at some point brought up the issues, but I can't say that for sure. The 'me' now would've for sure, but the 'me' now is such a different guy than who I was a year ago.
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Unfortunately no one owes us anything.....I am a firm believer that this happened to me for a reason and I am a better man for it. My EW is the big looser in all of this. She did me a favor as I have learned things that I would have never learned before. I have grown in ways I never thought possible.....
Yeh I guess that is the stinging realization from all of this - you are not owed $hit. I always operated that way with others but gave W a pass because I never thought she would back out like this. I have definitely grown and improved in leaps and bounds. The only thing is that I think that would've been possible if she had agreed to work on the MR. I had already started IC and was looking deep. We could've done it together, but that's not how the story goes.
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Just remember you don't want marriage 1.0 back you want marriage 2.0 but that means she is willing to do the work as well. That work will probably not be done on your timeline. It might take D to make it happen. It might mean that it takes her to experience some harsh realities of living a dating life. Maybe some dude does her dirty and that causes her to realize that M wasn't that bad after all. By then M has a beautiful lady by his side, has moved on with his life and maybe the prospects of her getting her back don't matter. Maybe M realizes that she is the love of his life and they reunite.
I agree about MR 2.0. I definitely don't want the previous marriage. I know what I want now. I want a smart, athletic, caring, and passionate woman in my life.
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The dating life for a single lady with two young kids can't be that easy......the amount of quality men out there that are available is pretty slim. She is not only dating for herself but she also has to picture that man with her kids as well and trust me you as the children's father will be the barometer. Most dudes are d-bags and at my age most of them look twice their age and have not done the work we have. I had a lady tell me last week I looked 38.....I was like cool I will take it
That I am fairly certain of too - I know where I stand in terms of quality men out there, and I know that she's going to have a hard time finding someone who stands as tall as me in everything. I know my strengths and what i bring, and my game is in the top percentile. Good on you btw for that nice lady attention
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This is how I can have my EW come over to the house so my kids can celebrate her birthday. I know who I am, where I am going and am totally confident and comfortable in that setting.
I totally get the fact you want to be a better role model for the kids and show them that you're not an angry person. But I am wondering if the kids feel that the parents are spending some time together and are they going to get back together? They're so little that I don't think they catch the nuances of what's happening. Also, what do you do down the road when you have a new partner?
But I am wondering if the kids feel that the parents are spending some time together and are they going to get back together?
We really don't spend that much time together. We see each other at kid exchange on Sundays for roughly 5 to 10 min. There is no lingering, just updates on the kids, etc. Outside of that it is the Soccer games on Saturdays and maybe a practice here and there. She did come over for her birthday for about 20 min but that would not have happened had the girls not have been with me for my week.
I did let her know she could come by and pick them up, take them some where to celebrate however she came back and asked if she could just come to the house for a few to celebrate with them. The only reason why she did this was because she had plans to go out with her friends and picking them up and doing something with them would have interfered with that.
I will monitor but I don't think there is enough time spent together to get that impression.
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Also, what do you do down the road when you have a new partner?
I don't think it will continue as they get older. If she gets remarried then I will revisit my role in doing this since their step-father might handle them and the gifts until they are old enough to fend for themselves.
Until that happens/if it happens I do feel that I do have a responsibility to make sure things like this happen. The girls are so in tune to birthdays and they started telling me like 3 weeks ago what they wanted to get mommy. I guess I could have told them "Sorry, it's not happening...mommy and daddy are divorced now and if you want to get her a present she can go buy it herself".....I just didn't think it was right.
More than likely the next person I am with is going to have kids and an EX H so I am sure they will understand and maybe even appreciate my stance on the matter. Maybe my EW doesn't come over to the house as I know that if it was her week I would not have participated it was just the circumstances.
In fact the W and kiddos had dinner on Saturday night with some close family friends and I wasn't invited.
The truth is my girls really don't understand what D is all about and what it entails. They made a comment a few weeks ago that my parents had not seen mommy in quite some time and asked me if they were going to come over and see mommy's new house.
Unfortunately there is more to this that they will be experiencing.
Ahhhh!!! I'm having a hard day today. Yesterday had a bit of a rough day with the kids and they cried and then I cried later in the evening and got it all out. Just something dumb happened and it caused my D unnecessary grief and then my S got sad because his sister was sad and it broke my heart and I held it in to support them. Then I let myself break down last night after they went to bed and still feeling the after effects of it.
This $hit is already hard and then life throws stupid things to make it worse for the kids, even though it was temporary. I just really wished I had someone yesterday to support me and be a partner and share the grief and help me.
And then I was googling stuff and I came across some dumb $hit about how some people think there is a big difference between a single dad and divorced dad - the former being more 'adult' because they have to keep the kids full time rather than the latter. I got so angry because I didn't ask to spend 50% of my time with my kids and like I am some fu$%#ng party animal the rest of the days and living the life. I didn't sign up to be a part time parent and I sure as hell hate it that I don't get to see my kids every day.
Just having a bad day. I miss my kids.
I am just venting. I know I need to dust off and get back up. I am doing that every day. I've had a really strong urge to go and get some smokes today, but that's not going to solve anything. I feel like going on a bender to avoid the pain, but it's still going to be there when I get back from the detour. I know I need to get through it, but I just don't feel like today. I am exhausted. I need someone in whose arms I can just fall into and they can just take me, warts and all, and take care of me. I just need a few days of that.
Sorry M......I have my moments as well so I completely understand. I don't have any magical words of wisdom, at least any new ones :), but just know your not alone.
Oh man! This community has saved me so many times. Sending all you love and hugs as well.
I am taking the day to reset and recalibrate. I've just not let myself feel all the emotions and I gave raws the advice to let it all out, and I guess it helped me give myself permission to do that as well.
I am not grieving W, but the time with my kids and the concept of a family life. I've also just been the support for so many people in my life and been their rock, that I forgot how to fall down and let myself feel everything. I wish I had a rock right now that would take me, but y'all are, and I reached out to some people - which is a 180 for me as I would've never done that in the past. Always was a one-person army.
My anger is coming back up and I am going to put it back into slow burn. W is going to hella regret that she didn't give the family a second chance. F$%k her!!!
My kids deserve better and I am getting back up tomorrow stronger and more focused.
Alright. Feel more settled and determined now. I've been through hell and back with other things in my life and I am ready to tear this $hit apart.
Summer is here and I am already looking good. Time to turn the dial up on this workout and diet and climbing and start crushing all of these goals.
Can't wait for a woman to touch me and realize I am made out of steel, and catch that look on her face. I already got game as a parent and friend and I am hella smart - I know the mix that I bring is going to be hard to compete with and W is always going to compare whatever trash with me.
Time for grit and hardwork and joy in life. My kids are going to see a happy, patient, masculine, and all put together dad. Imma cry my river tonight with some scotch; make my plans; and wake up tomorrow and start living my life for me.
i think were running on the same brainwaves today. This morning was awful for me, had a HUGE cathartic moment earlier today, sobbed and cried like a baby. Had to leave work for a bit. Came back, Then my boss pulled me in his office for a good pep talk.
Man i work with some good people.
I recall looking up at the full moon last night thinking the all too familiar thought as an EMT "Woo, full moon tonight, all the crazies will be out." Seems like the tidal pull have emotions running high across the board today.
We got this dude, I cant wait to get home and SHRED the weight set.
Originally Posted By: Makia
Time for grit and hardwork and joy in life. My kids are going to see a happy, patient, masculine, and all put together dad. Imma cry my river tonight with some scotch; make my plans; and wake up tomorrow and start living my life for me.
Thats what im talking about. Im With you there all day man.
My plan tonight: Gym Sesh, Good healthy dinner, shower, 2x pickleback, then into my books for the night. I have a lot of writing (fictional) to catch up on.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Hey Orange! Yeh, I work with some great people too. My colleague came / supervisor came over to just chit chat - she knows my situation. I just completely broke down and she told me that I had to go home. I needed the time and space and she'd handle whatever needed to get done today. I really needed the day off.
I am just going climbing now and going to send some routes and get back on the horse.
I went and got my next ink appointment scheduled. I was going to wait for a few months before I got it, but I am not anymore. It is something I've been meaning to get for a while and I am going to get it. Got some tats done 2 months ago and I have a full plan to get my sleeve done this year as well.
I understand that it's easy to get disheartened from comments like that. I can only ask you to not dwell on them. People who are truly content and happy in their lives do not write posts that are meant to hurt others. Only people who are hurting and insecure in their own lives have the urgency to drag others down in order to make themselves feel better for a short period of time. You know how much you love your children and you are the only one who judges your own participation. Not someone else who knows nothing about you.
Happy 1st of May
lc (I need to change my nickname... -_-)
In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced 2 young kids new relationship
You should change your name haha. But everytime I see you, I think of L as in Bluwave's signature - Last night I took an L, but tonight I bounce back. You have bounced back and I am glad to have been there to witness and be a small part of your journey.
I think all my grief got bundled up with the small incident with my kids and I felt like a failure and trying to hold it all together. It felt like I was building a dam, but it broke last night and it all came pouring out.
I've always held my emotions and pain in since I was a child. Lots of childhood trauma that hardwired me to that, and it's really hard for me to turn that around. So, I know that I had my emotions put away and I thought I had dealt with my grief, but I don't think I did.
So, that grief came out last night and today at work where I just broke down. I've not lost my composure in front of someone in a very long time and today I just couldn't keep it in and push it down. I think it was really good it came out. I feel more clear now and determined. I know it's going to be up and down and by no means this is the end of all the grief, but I have to figure out ways to let my emotions out. I don't deliberately suppress them, but that's what happens and I don't know how to change that up. I will have to talk to my IC about it.
I am feeling more positive and grounded now after going through a hell night and morning.
Maika, Sounds like you had a rough day, but are in a much better place now. I hope it stays with you. This is alot easier when you have the mindset to grab life by the balls and be the best you can be. I wish you luck...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Thanks mtb for your kind words. I am almost close to a year out from BD, and there are still some rough days. So, I'd counsel all newcomers to take a HUGE step back, slow down, and assess what's happening - emotionally, physically, and mentally. This is a long haul and it takes some serious self-work, GAL, and introspection to get to a better place.
I am already way stronger than I was and I have made huge improvements, but there will be specific things based on everyone's personalities that will be one of the main mountains to climb. For me, it has been emotional regulation and learning how to be productive with them.
I thought I was over that hump, but I clearly am not. Just booked an IC appt to help me figure this out. This is digging really deep and learning how to be better.
The day is better now for sure, but last night and this morning were horrendous.
My other issue is the anger - and I have identified it comes from my ego and how it has dealt with this rejection. Not just being rejected by the other person, but rejected so abruptly without being given a chance to prove myself. To prove that I am worthy of this relationship. I realized along this journey how much of this is about W's own issues and when I got out of the LBS fog, I realized that almost all her complaints had no real basis in reality - she rationalized things to justify her decision. The things where she was correct, I have taken that to the chin and am working to improve. Especially communications, conflict management, and not being a NGS. Other things like sex life can't be resolved with her obviously, but I know that so much of it was her personal body image issues and feeling that sex was shameful and taboo, and never getting over that. On my end, I realized I wasn't happy with the sex life and I want more, which she never provided. I could've spoken up more about it, but I had gotten shut down so many times before that I just also shut down and suppressed the issues.
Anyways, what I have realized over this journey is that you can intellectually get to DBing and understand it, but emotionally, you need the time for your heart to catch up with your mind. Some people can do it quicker than others, but it still takes quite some time. My emotions are still not caught up and I am creating environments and contexts around me to assist my heart to get over the rejection and ego.
I am just going climbing now and going to send some routes and get back on the horse.
I went and got my next ink appointment scheduled. I was going to wait for a few months before I got it, but I am not anymore. It is something I've been meaning to get for a while and I am going to get it. Got some tats done 2 months ago and I have a full plan to get my sleeve done this year as well.
I am super pumped!
Great minds! Ive been waiting to finish my sleeve forever. i find the act of getting inked cathartic and ive said since all this BS began i needed to get under the gun. Money is a B right now but ill make it happen soon.
I was supposed to go climbing on Sunday but got rained out, plenty of summer to go!
Me you and reframe should plan a trip to climb sometime.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Haha yeh! I've been indoor climbing exclusively - started 9 months ago. I aim to get out this summer though and do it outdoors, which is what I've always wanted.
I've had a number of tat ideas swirling for a long time, but I just didn't go and get them done. Well, now I am. I just got two small ones done, and I am getting a medium sized one done in 2 weeks, and then it's on to the sleeve - which I plan to get done by the end of the year. I need to find a good artist and honing the design will probably take a long time. I have some ideas, but I need the artist to bring it to life.
I'd love to go climbing with you and reframe. I don't live in the US and not sure where you're at.
My climbing plans got crapped on today as my buddy wasn't able to make it. I didn't want to go do auto belays lol.
Money is definitely an issue and so I have to space things out and find creative ways to GAL that doesn't cost much. I am super into financing and budgeting now and so I keep a good track to ensure I am not slipping in too much debt.
Excited for life and getting abs of steel and sending 5.10d routes by the end of this year
I havent climbed outside in about 2 years, Id say IM AT ABOUT 5.8/9 right now, but i also havent gone to the gym since the vast majority of my gym efforts either, so i may be better.
Im from Northeast US. lots of good outdoor climbs here.
good luck finding your artist M!
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Hmmm... I am a bit north of the border, but not an impossible drive for a climbing excursion for a few days. Well, I need to practice first and then we might be able to plan something. I can't remember where reframe is located.
I didn't want to hijack bluwaves thread. And i am really not familiar with your story or what happened between your ex and yourself.
My use of the word "bad" is pretty simplified. And it makes me think of how we tell our kids, "you are not bad. Your behavior is"
Maybe a better word is sh!tty. As in "my ex is a pretty sh!tty" person. And i am not gonna sit their and come up with explanations for it like foo issues, or maybe he was dropped on his head. Because it doesn't matter.
I think a person capable of lying, betraying, cheating, stealing to/from their own family has to be sh!tty. These actions are pretty black and white no? It's not like there is a gray moral ethical issue they are forced to make a decision about like "hey I'm gonna steal some bread so my kid can eat" .
It's not like they are inflicting trauma on enemies or opponents. They are pulling this sh!t on their family!!!!! That's the ultimate crime.
They made hard core decisions to expose their partners to stds, spend family money on drugs, maybe some lesser core decisions of inflicting some of the worst emotional trauma onto the person that devoted their life to them, humiliate their own flesh....etc, etc.
They are sh!t at the core. I really feel like that.
[quote=JujuB It's not like they are inflicting trauma on enemies or opponents. They are pulling this sh!t on their family!!!!! That's the ultimate crime.
They made hard core decisions to expose their partners to stds, spend family money on drugs, maybe some lesser core decisions of inflicting some of the worst emotional trauma onto the person that devoted their life to them, humiliate their own flesh....etc, etc.
They are sh!t at the core. I really feel like that. [/quote]
Thank you. Another one for the motivation board.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
Yeh, my story isn't anything unique. W dropped BD after 10 years of marriage. No prior discussion with me about what her problems were and what she was feeling. There were maybe some subtle hints, but I'd have to do some mental gymnastics or be a telepath to have figured out what she was thinking. We bought a new house, everything was getting settled and I felt stable for our kids and us, and she blew everything to smithereens. We sold the house, moved into our own places, and she said that this 'separation is permanent' when I temp checked her because I was tired of living in ambiguity. She pulled some cake-eating on me and I allowed it because I was in a panic and I hadn't come to DB yet. It's ten months now and no signs of any change on her part. I highly doubt that will change and we are heading to divorce land. Kids are heavily impacted, and obviously I was devastated and left to pick up the pieces of this.
So, I am by no means a WW/WH/WAS apologist. I have strong remnants of anger that I am processing through a slow burn.
I appreciate your clarification about them being $hitty people rather than bad. Anyways, semantics don't matter here now because your point is well taken and I fully co-sign it and agree with it.
Yeh there were x, y, and z reasons for whatever they did, but I am not wholly sympathetic with it because most of us have x, y, z that we're dealing with and don't allow those reasons to blow $hit up. I guess the point that you're making circles the idea that there were other choices, which they didn't take or seriously consider or actually put all the work in it.
I agree with 25's assessment in Blu's thread that Blu's situation is the best case scenario, and that is not a credit to DBing because Blu has admitted over and over again that she was a crappy DBer for a long time. There has to be a genuine change in the other person and that they value the family enough to work through this stuff and actually build something stronger.
Like many here, I was all game for building something stronger together. I admitted my faults - which were not separation or BD worthy by a long shot - and took active steps to address them, and still doing it. They didn't.
So yeh, they're $hitty people and now we're left to deal with this mess.
And let's not forget the supreme mental energy required on their part when they set up a double life (otherwise known as tripod) existence. That takes some doing.
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Neffer - thanks for the kind words. I feel like I have unlocked the next level in the DB detachment game and ascending to a higher plane of existence. I feel a lot better after that emotional outpouring. All good in the hood.
Crushed climbing last night by challenging myself to a harder route. Going climbing outside this weekend and I cannot wait. I am also warming up to the idea of dating - thinking about it is not making me all queasy and weird. So, I am more than good.
Regardless of the pain inflicted upon us, I don't see any reason to hold onto the anger, and I personally devote my time and my future to understand people, including their emotions, better. It's not the ultimate thing I pursue because all things do not have to have a meaning per se - It's just that most of the actions we do are in fact somewhat predictable and universal - and understanding why people do what they do helps us to recover. Every coin has two sides. By understanding, accepting and letting go of the anger no matter what you have experienced is the first real step to a better life afterwards, which shows not only towards your inner circles but in your behavior towards total strangers too.
But I do obviously understand people who are extremely hurt by their long time partners deciding to cheat, lie, manipulate, hurt etc. their own (previously) loved ones. It's something that is really hard to forgive. Ultimately, we are the ones who put the meaning for the actions and we decide how we feel about them. Cheating is a big hit on one's ego and it's hard to understand why anyone would cheat if you are an emotionally stable person who never would do that. However, not all of us are as seen from the behavior our (ex-)spouses have. Understanding that cheating or any of those behaviors is not really related to you, but related to them being emotionally undeveloped. I realize this probably doesn't help, but I got an immense amount of relief when I started to accept things as they are and could see the other side of the coin. I feel that actively using this approach has made me a better person on all social occasions as I tend to analyze the behavior of others more "on-the-fly". Finally, the world goes on and you can either choose to stay angry and dwell on what happened to you or you can decide to use it as a motivation to lead a better life. It is said that those people who go through very traumatic events truly understand what being alive means and they end up being the happiest people around. And I can say that holding anger will just consume you.
I've met a family where a man left his wife of ~30 years to go with his affair partner. This was ten years ago. The man, his ex wife and the affair partner have a lunch 3-4 times a week and they are all friends nowadays. The man and his ex wife goes to sports events or lunch sometimes together too.
In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced 2 young kids new relationship
Yeh neffer - imma climber for life. I wish I had started years ago, but still not late.
LC - the anger bit is about letting it come out over time in a controlled way. I don't think it should be held onto forever and yes it can be detrimental in the long run. But, in the short run, it can be very positive as long as it's not explosive towards others and oneself.
I honestly don't get about the H, ex-W, and affair partner hanging out, with the H and ex-W going to lunch at times. I think it's absurd and degrading for the LBS. I am way more of the 'you're cut from my life' kinda guy, with the only exception being stuff related to kids.
I know that never say never, but I cannot imagine doing that with ex-W. And I don't say that out of spite. I just feel that if i did that i would not be honoring myself and my own self-respect. But, that's me.
Yeh, but as JujuB was saying and what I am saying is that we are all in the same boat to a certain extent and that there are ways to deal with that rather blowing everything up. We all have emotional stuff we need to improve, but we're not going out and just doing $hitty things instead of addressing it.
I know that never say never, but I cannot imagine doing that with ex-W. And I don't say that out of spite. I just feel that if i did that i would not be honoring myself and my own self-respect. But, that's me.
Me too, Maika, me too...
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
I honestly don't get about the H, ex-W, and affair partner hanging out, with the H and ex-W going to lunch at times. I think it's absurd and degrading for the LBS. I am way more of the 'you're cut from my life' kinda guy, with the only exception being stuff related to kids.
I know that never say never, but I cannot imagine doing that with ex-W. And I don't say that out of spite. I just feel that if i did that i would not be honoring myself and my own self-respect. But, that's me.
Never thought this would happen to me ever. I wouldn't even meet OW until after they were married and that was a few years.
However, now my daughter, my ex and his now wife, AP, stepmother to my daughter will have an occasional meal together, sit together at kids events, and he had his sister invite me and our daughter to his sisters superbowl party (I was close with his sister, she didn't mind) and we all hung out.
Now, would I do this if we didn't share a young child? No way. But my daughter was very uncomfortable when we were separate at the same places and I had to show positive communication for her comfort. Now she is comfortable around all of us. I wanted to minimize the effects of having 2 homes, and I believe I've done an excellent job. Sure, I took a bullet for my kid, but I would throw myself in front of a train for her.
This isn't for everyone. But I do suggest it where there is a young kid, who has positive feelings towards all involved. OWW has been in my daughter's life since she was baby. That's her stepmother (I also like her better than my ex, believe or not).
I hear what your saying ginger. My son wants that as well. Everytime he asks me for us to all go some place together, I tell him "no. I dont do things with daddy or your grandma anymore"
I dont think one way is right or wrong. I just know I dont want to put on pretenses. I can't act and pretend like what they did is ok. I won't give them that because ex and his whole family are all about images and secrets and lies but covered up with utensils in the proper spaces, home made birthday cakes for coworkers, immaculate home and luxury car.
I think its because ex's mother pretended like his dad was "out providing" when he really left for years and when he did come back wasnt truly present. I saw how ex turned out with all those lies and cover ups and I wanted my son to see that his dad's actions have consequences.
My son was older then your daughter when ex left and he knew that he left us though. So very different.
hi Maika, you seem to have mastered GAL. do you do it when the kids are with W? do you share them for equal time? How much were they impacted by selling of home and your S?
Hey Arshi - that's a great question. I wouldn't say I have mastered GAL, but I know how important it is and I have been proactive in integrating it in my life.
How you do GAL really depends on your context. Someone without kids can easily go NC, completely dark, and GAL without worrying about being away from kids. If you have kids, depending on their age, and what level of responsibility you have determines a lot too.
For me, I have kids 50% of the time and so I structure my life around that schedule.
When the kids are not with me, I do all the external stuff that I want to do - go climbing, movies, go out for drinks with a friend, and read/write (I am still struggling with the last one a bit as I haven't been managing my time as well as I wanted, but working on it)
When I have the kids, I am completely involved with them, so I don't have personal GAL activities, aside from working out. Getting healthy and working out was hugely important for me as one of my goals, but with my kids schedule, I wasn't able to continue with my gym membership. It was going to be impossible for me to do it. I was fortunately in a position to create a small home gym with everything I needed to start. So, I workout in the evenings after my kids go to bed and that is my GAL when I have them.
On the weekends that I have them, I basically organize the day around activities that they want to do, which depends on the weather as well. Now that summer is here, we spend most of the time outside the home at parks and outdoor activities. I also take them climbing with me on the weekends they're with me and we've created something special that they only share with me, not their mother.
I have created my own system of what I loosely call 'The Law of Shared Needs' - I have outlined what I need in life and what the kids need in life. And both sets of needs are on the same level. If at any point both sets of needs come into conflict, the kids needs trump my needs. But, the way that I have structured my life, that generally doesn't happen. But just as an example - if the kids want to go out and play at a park and I'd rather be a couch potato because I am feeling tired (mostly cuz I am lazy, which I have worked on), then we get up and go out and I don't get to be a lazy bum and put on tv for them to watch.
But, I think that GAL is about getting that space so that you can really exhale and breathe and just have that time for yourself. I don't think it's necessarily how long that time is, but what you do with that time. That's why it's important to identify those pockets of time and then start planning what to do.
Some people also falsely believe that GAL is about spending money and it can get expensive. 25yrsmlc, another poster here, has consistently explained how she GAL'd on a virtually non existent budget. So, finances is just an excuse to not do something for yourself. I spend few hours on the weekend reading a book and I spend zero dollars on it. I can go for a walk and it costs me zero dollars.
You won't be able to figure out the perfect schedule right away and it takes time to tweak it to see how it can best suit your needs.
Start with something easy to do just to get momentum. And then once you experience the emotions of doing something for yourself and meeting your needs, it will snowball.
Your other question - yes, the kids were hugely impacted by the selling of the house and the whole situation in general. I've created a great deal of stability for them and it has also allowed me to grow immensely as a parent and recognize where I was failing and why - I went to IC to help with that which had a great direct impact on my relationship with the kids - we are tighter than ever.
They are still experiencing emotional hardship no doubt - especially my older kid. But I am working with him to talk about stuff more and hopefully be able to take him to a counselor soon to just chat and help him.
There will be impact on the kids, just varies depending on their age. You have to become the strong stable parent, but at the same time learn how to process your own grief and emotions in a private manner so that you are engaging in self-care.
This is not easy, but this is your life and your kids lives and you have no option right now but go forward. Take that and run with it. You will be better for it and it will show on your kids. Kids, and I know from my own, are super sensitive to your own cues and moods. When I was able to let go of my control issues and chill and really be there for them, a huge level of stress and anxiety just dropped for all of us. Kids relaxed and we made our relationship stronger and deeper. It's probably the best thing that has happened to me since BD.
I hope you also took Accuray's words to heart. Lot of wisdom in there. Figure your GAL out and come back and let us know.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
Maybe a better word is sh!tty. As in "my ex is a pretty sh!tty" person. And i am not gonna sit their and come up with explanations for it like foo issues, or maybe he was dropped on his head. Because it doesn't matter.
I think a person capable of lying, betraying, cheating, stealing to/from their own family has to be sh!tty. These actions are pretty black and white no? It's not like there is a gray moral ethical issue they are forced to make a decision about like "hey I'm gonna steal some bread so my kid can eat" .
Oh I think there are a whole lot of shades of gray here. My ex for example, I think what it all boiled down to is she changed and no longer wanted to be married. So is she sh!t? She's a great mother to our kids, she's a kind, helpful person, and despite what we went through I still think she is a very selfless person. She did what she did because she felt there was no other path to happiness.
In some other cases people's spouses go through something, call it MLC or whatever but it can be temporary. They do crazy, sh!t things and even hate themselves for it. But eventually they get past it and return to their normal un-sh!t selves. These are the tough cases because you simply don't know if they are going through something temporarily or not. I mean you would never, ever leave your spouse because they got sick, yet that is exactly what this might be- a sort of mental sickness that they will eventually recover from.
In yet other cases there are previously good people who mysteriously turn to sh!t and they never do turn back again, they stay that way for good. That's in direct contrast with the above, because there is no recovery. So you can wait forever for them to "recover" and they never do.
And then there are those cases where the person was sh!t to start with but blinded their spouse-to-be with fake behavior, then once they got married the sh!t began. It wasn't because they changed, it was because they were acting all along and now their true self is showing through.
Part of the challenge in DB'ing is figuring out which you're dealing with, LOL!
My ex is a very sh!tty individual too. He just is. Always has been and always will be, but he is my daughter's father.
There are many shades of gray as AS states. What I do is not for everyone. I would never ever want to see or hear from the guy ever again if it wasn't for D.
So, yes, my ex is total sh!t. he has done sh!tty things. I've just managed to separate our relationship from us as parents to our D. Because I couldn't care anymore if he thinks he was right, wrong, justified, or anything. I just don't care. It's a long time until most get there.
Very well explained Maika. I always learn something when I read your posts, really also liked the "law of shared Needs" concept. I have to GAL and find myself outside of the relationship that has been my world. Every day reading threads on the forum gets me a step closer.
Trying to untangle this BD beast is no joke and once I realized that I had to take full responsibility and accountability of my actions, I knew that I was making a positive change. I've had a crappy life with many issues starting from childhood trauma with tattooed my behavior with survival instincts that I could not shake off. I am now very aware of it and working towards not trying to continuously survive, but actually relax and thrive in my life.
I knew that my priority was my kids, but I also acutely realized that I had to make myself the priority too. One of my failings in the MR and with life in general and other relationships was that I always minimized my needs. After BD I realized that my needs are super important and I had to figure out a way to be a healthy individual with a satisfying life for me to be a good parent. Hence came the 'Law of Shared Needs'.
So I feel much more grounded and because I am feeding my own spirit and pursuing joy in life, I am a way better parent for my kids. I wouldn't have gotten here without DBing and this community.
I wasn't saying that example as something we should do. Each one of us decides how to live their life. However, I just wanted to write that as an example of how uncertain life can be. Neither one of them expected it to happen that way, but they are all happy it is that way now. I don't see myself being friends with OM either, and probably won't be. But if my XW ditches this guy and meets someone else down the line, then I probably don't see any issues with it. This one cut a bit too deep to prevent me from wanting to accept him as a friend, regardless of how my children feel.
My issue comes mainly from calling people sh1t. Maybe you don't mean that as I take it, because during my T sessions and everything I've read about psychology, I've learned that no one is ultimately a bad person. Most of our behavior is related to our past and people can't really change their emotion regulation without actively understanding how they act and seeking for help. I'd call it an illness (it certainly wouldn't hurt to put each one of us to get a few therapy sessions...). Sure, we can all call people whatever we want, but in my opinion that just feels like taping our own self-image back together as a temporary bandaid rather than understanding that our self-image was only seemingly broken, scratched. We don't have to label people to anything, but to understand that they did not have the right tools to regulate or fix their emotions so they did what they thought was the right thing to do to steer their own life towards the path they wanted it to go.
To be clear, I don't defend people for what they do, but I'd rather attack other factors like schools, social stigma on therapy and so on than the individual people. People can't change and fix their behavior unless they really understand why they feel like they do. I am saddened that we all had to endure these feelings, but at the same time I'm certain all of us can heal if we so want, without labels or temporary ego fixes.
In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced 2 young kids new relationship
I knew that my priority was my kids, but I also acutely realized that I had to make myself the priority too. One of my failings in the MR and with life in general and other relationships was that I always minimized my needs. After BD I realized that my needs are super important and I had to figure out a way to be a healthy individual with a satisfying life for me to be a good parent. Hence came the 'Law of Shared Needs'.
So I feel much more grounded and because I am feeding my own spirit and pursuing joy in life, I am a way better parent for my kids. I wouldn't have gotten here without DBing and this community.
M.... well said! Since BD I have realized I did much of the same as you, it was always more important that everyone around me had their needs met while I never focused on myself(trait of the Nice Guy) This is a constant work in progress as I struggle at times to put myself first before my kids. With the warmer weather upon us I have a bunch of things planned for myself to do, this is something I would have never done. More GAL!
dusty - yeah. I think once I realized that it totally changed everything for me. Also allowed me to find a way to achieve balance in life. My life was so unbalanced and tilted towards kids and other people that I was digging myself into the ground. I had no skills to figure out how to meet that balance. This has helped me being able to let go of my controlling tendencies as well because I've been able to balance my somewhat neurotic controlling tendencies and weighing it against what would be the worst consequence if things didn't go according to 'my' plan or the 'right way of doing stuff'. And I realized that the consequences are truly nothing to get worked up about - result in being destressed and less controlling and less anxious.
I saw W today briefly at kids activity and for the first time I didn't have a small pit in my stomach. I've been trying to just pretend and act 'as if' and doing it, but there has always been a small level of anxiousness and uncertainty. Today it was all good. I went and saw my kids and admired what they did and had the regular hello convo with W without feeling anything was gnawing at me slowly from the inside - which I consider quite a victory where I am at emotionally and mentally.
Again, feeling like I've reached a new zone of detachment and self-confidence and self-worth.
Also, I think this is the first time in my life I feel that I am a good looking attractive man. I've had flirty and fun convos with some women lately and it has been quite good for my self-esteem. Not saying I am some stud or something, but I never felt in my life that I was worthy of being loved and someone would be attracted to me. I know now that it isn't true and I know that I look good and I put myself together quite well - I have my own style and aesthetics, I groom well, and I have an outgoing confident personality that is coming out again. I am in a place where I can see that women are noticing that and it's cool. I am not being a narcissist or anything, but I am realizing that I can attract good people and that I am not doing anything for anyone else, but me. I think I am finally in a place where I am coming to terms to loving myself and forgiving myself - not just for the MR, but for stuff that's happened in life that I took the blame and burden for.
Everything is coming together slowly and clicking in the right places. I think for the first time in my life I am truly feeling what happiness and joy can feel like - and that is because I am finally loving myself and who I am and what I bring.
It has been such a journey and I wish I could explain in more detail some of the aspects of my journey, but that would be revealing too much personal information, and I don't want W or someone I know to find me out here and read my DB journey.
All in all, at the core of this, if you can patiently work to find that love for yourself and forgive yourself, the rest is all pancakes and whipped cream and chocolate syrup.
I won't be saving my MR as I see it now, but I am not fazed by it anymore. I want newbies who come here to read my story and see that I am a blazing success - I certainly feel that way and it shows because I am finally coming to be who I am again. There is a good place after the dark tunnel. Saving yourself is never hopeless.
I have a final IC appt booked for later this month and I am also getting my second set of ink done soon. They are going to be cathartic final moments for me to mark the end of the journey of pain and despair. I have timed my ink appt with the one year BD anniversary to mark the finality of this journey. The ink I am getting is very much linked to my journey and the design is going to reflect the path I have taken and where I am going. After that, the whole world is open and I will continue to heal and find my place in this world - stronger, smarter, and happier.
Good for you, man. I'm happy for you. And you're 100% right. Not all success stories end up with getting your spouse back. And it's hard for a lot of us to see that in the beginning..
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
I saw W today briefly at kids activity and for the first time I didn't have a small pit in my stomach. I've been trying to just pretend and act 'as if' and doing it, but there has always been a small level of anxiousness and uncertainty. Today it was all good. I went and saw my kids and admired what they did and had the regular hello convo with W without feeling anything was gnawing at me slowly from the inside - which I consider quite a victory where I am at emotionally and mentally.
Goals. Itll take a long time i think, but, goals.
M: 35, EX-W: 3, S:4 All Divorce Proceedings Complete - Oct 18 ----------------------------------------------------- 2nd EX - Was Engaged - Diagnosed BPD 2 Major breakups. 2 Rebounds
mtb - yeah it is hard to see it in the beginning for sure. We are so desperately trying to get control back, and we view that as the other person coming back and getting things status quo.
OrangeK - yeh it takes a long time for sure, and it requires personal work. Time won't magically make that happen. But, in situations with abuse, it complicates things a lot. There's just so much to get through.
Oh I believe in bad people and also in evil. If you want a sober read look to children of the lie by Scott Peck.
The G is evil, I believe that and a very bad man. I truly believe he plotted harm and that he meant what he said 'I would be better off if you were dead' and trust me if you saw the lizard look, the cold snake stare you wouldn't question.
Some of the awful things that happen and are discussed on this board are truly chilling. It requires saying.
In this I am not talking about cheating and wayward behaviour although that is entitled bull crap. I am saying other things, sexual abuse, hitting children, adopting children and abandoning them, not using protection when sleeping around, abandoning pregnant women, falsely accusing their spouse and getting them arrested, theft of marital assets, abandoning kids and seriously gaslighting amoung others. Intending deliberate harm for personal profit. All of these things have been reported on this board.
So yes, there are weak and wayward people and there are those who abuse for pleasure. To extract resources. And it's women and men, gay and straight: ultimately it is intended to destroys lives. This isn't mental illness, fog or crisis; it's evil in action.
In many ways saying, ahhhh it's just their behaviour dodges the question and it keeps those in pain seeking the redemption of the other. If we call it what it is destructive and state that these human doings (not beings) are the children of the lie then we know that we must stop any R and manage our self love. We get away, protect ourselves and our children from it.
M, it has been my delight and pleasure to see you grow and develop, shift of the kind you have shown is one of the most remarkable post traumatic growth sitches here. I just love it, and in my eyes you are an enormous success.
In healing yourself, learning to self love then you place yourself somewhere that this will not happen again and you provide stability for your two precious children. That is brave and inspiring.
And it hasn't been easy. I know this.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
good for you Maika. being a newbie here its hard to understand the journey or the redemption you feel but you sound liberated and ready to take the newer, better path. I truly wish you get the happiness you deserve
V - I agree with you. There are definitely evil people in this world and this board is full of such people who have done horrendous things. Any LBS in a situation with a person like that should just walk away and rebuild their lives IMHO>
Thanks for the kinds words about my journey. It wouldn't have been possible without people like you here. Your assistance in helping me figure out how to approach my goals was really helpful.
I am practicing gratitude on a daily basis and I have two beautiful children who keep me on my toes and are also helping me grow as a person. I do feel like a success because I have clarity and purpose and ways to achieve my goals rather than just being in a depressed paralytic state, which I was before.
Arshi - thanks for your kind words. I cannot imagine being in a situation with such a young child and going through this. Just know that there is happiness and joy and success, and it does not depend on you being able to recon your marriage. Just focus on YOU and how you are able to find those spaces and time pockets to get relief for yourself. Your H is acting out tantrums and sounds emotionally immature - let him go and do his thing. He's going to quickly find out that the world outside is not full of roses.
I saw W today briefly at kids activity and for the first time I didn't have a small pit in my stomach. I've been trying to just pretend and act 'as if' and doing it, but there has always been a small level of anxiousness and uncertainty. Today it was all good. I went and saw my kids and admired what they did and had the regular hello convo with W without feeling anything was gnawing at me slowly from the inside - which I consider quite a victory where I am at emotionally and mentally.
M...... I have had the same issue being around XW since BD. Last week we were both at D12's game, enjoying how great she was doing. XW then came over and stood(close??) next to me and we had a real good talk about mostly kids stuff. I for the first time had zero anxiety while talking to her, i'm not sure what it was this time compared to other times we talked but I was very comfortable with where I'm at and how I now feel about her.
Originally Posted By: Maika
Again, feeling like I've reached a new zone of detachment and self-confidence and self-worth.
This is what I am trying to get to, i've got the detachment down, could still use some tweeking but I'm in a good place here. My IC has been working a bunch with me lately on the my "self worth" I am having trouble with this one. She turned me onto an author, Brene Brown, she has a bunch of Ted Talks along with a handful of books. A lot of her topics deal with vulnerability and shame, for some reason she has really hit home for me. Look her up, her books have been real helpful for me.
Dusty - that's awesome. Such a breakthrough to be able to be comfortable in your own skin around W. I know it's hard as I've been on the same journey. Kudos man!
Thanks for the author recommendation. I will check it out. I've had a realization lately about self-worth that I'd like to share. A while back I made a list of my failures in the MR, as W reported to me, and others that I considered failures. I then put all of them in context of how I was feeling during those times and what life circumstances were. I realized that for many of them I did the best I could with what I had. If I had sought help for my depression earlier on, I would've probably corrected many failures. But lesson learned and IC has been a savior.
On the other side, i also wrote down honestly what my good qualities were. And I was hella happy with what I believe are awesome things that I bring as a person. And I realized that those are things that are attractive to other people, and would be to women. So, I knew at that point that I could be a great friend, partner, father, etc etc.
Doing this exercise, coupled with having some fun harmless interactions with some women and other people, I realized that I wasn't imagining those good qualities about me, and that i truly had them.
So, I went from believing that I was worthy, to trusting myself that I was worthy. That simple distinction is huge. Working on believing meant that I had to constantly, even subconsciously, find evidence that my belief about myself was true. When I switched to trusting my self and that I was worthy, it took my self-worth and self-esteem to a different level. I am no longer trying to prove to others, but more importantly, to myself that I am worthy. I know that I am.
IC has helped me with vulnerability and shame and those are key issues to work through. I am glad your IC is doing that with you. But, try and move from belief to trust. It's like a burden just got off my shoulders. Also, it is giving me natural confidence and honestly, it's exhilarating. I no longer need other people to validate my beliefs about myself. I trust myself and am introspective enough to know that I am not fooling myself.
M.... My IC actually studied with this auther to learn how to apply her techniques in her practice, so a lot of what she preaches resonates with me. After BD I took a real hard look in the mirror to understand what the hell happened to my life and marriage, was there anything I could have done different, better, for some stupid reason my XW convinced me that it was all my fault including her A. It took me a couples months before I had an awakening of sorts, it was my IC who challenged me to create a list much like you did before I started to realize who I was and what I wanted to become.
The first step was becoming healthy physically, I now work out 5/6 days a week, lost almost 70lbs, and I feel amazing! Then the mental work started, I read a bunch of books including the DR, I feel I have some new tools to succeed on my own as a single awesome father! My kids will benefit my much needed change!
I went on a couple dates and I now know that I have a lot to offer, this is something I really questioned a year ago! This site, the DR book, and GAL truly is to save yourself, not your marriage. Without these things I have no idea where we would be at!!!
Keep up with your posts, the make a difference with me!
You summed it up nicely neffer. It is about loving ourselves and having that trust within us.
dusty - sounds like you've done a helluva lotta work man. Losing 70lbs, that's frikkin' awesome. The first that I noticed from the changes was how it had a direct positive impact on my kids and me also transitioning to this version of fatherhood.
I am warming up to the idea of dating and for the first time recently, I don't feel icky about it - I do feel like i am a single person now rather than the husband brain creeping up. I told myself that I would give myself one full year, which will be end of June, before I make any decisions on what's next. I needed that time with myself to figure out so many things and do a full autopsy of life and MR to give me a clear picture of what I should do next. I believe I am getting there now.
Just like your XW, everything wrong was thrown at my feet and W didn't take accountability for anything. It did take me a while to really parse through her complaints and realize that 80% of those were not my fault and it was her own undoing and challenges. The 20% where I went wrong, I owned up to it and started improving myself diligently. I know she hasn't done the same. I wish that she would, but it's not my issue.
I am super grateful to this community and the resources. I don't think I would've been at this place without it. I am looking forward to the Brown TED stuff and the books.
The physical work I have done obviously was jump started by the BD, I literally didn't eat an ounce of food for a month! Then I found this site and it changed my life! Not only has it become my new way of life(eating, working out) but the positive impact on my kids is really starting to pay off, they want to go with me whether it's biking, kayaking, walking, whatever, they want to be with me.
Dating, I did meet someone and went out a few times recently, had a lot of fun but...... I realized that I am not ready. I am not ready to invest the time needed to build anything with anyone and I had to tell her this. She understood as she went through this a few years ago. I have too much stuff I want to do for myself. So tread lightly there.
The list... I have an actual list that my XW wrote out and gave me of all her complaints of my issues. I have kept this list, it's kind of a dear John letter, of course we know this is what they need to do to convince themselves of their decision. I too went through this "list" and worked my ass off on the things I agreed with. My XW has not put the work in, she saw an IC a couple times last year and that's it. So she must be cured?? lol
dusty - yeh I've done the same. First the weight loss was due to not being able to eat well and sleep either. But, it leveled out and I got in gear and started doing stuff for myself. I am quite sure that I am nowhere ready to invest in someone when I step out into the dating world. I just really miss the intimacy and physical connection as well.
My W still hasn't been to IC and I don't know if she ever will. I think it scares the bejeezus outta her. But, as that is my first requirement if she ever came around, she'll have to get over her fears. But honestly, I don't think it's turning around. I know that she has been in a depression coupled with some really drastic changes in her life in the last 2 years, I think she has classic signs of a MLC. But, it doesn't matter to me because it's not changing my game plan. And what I read from the MLC board, I don't have years to spare for her to go on her journey and come around. I am still young enough to find a partner that would be good to me and meet my needs. Unfortunately for her, the ship is very close to having set sail.
J9 - yeh, end of June/early July is the tentative timeline when either of us can file for D. I've had it on my mind for a while and I am more comfortable with the idea as each day goes by. In some way, I think I need it for taking my mental health and sanity to the next level. W still occupies more mental space than I want her to, and I need the D to feel whole again. I need her to officially be out of my life. I know it's a stupid piece of paper, but I feel that I won't reach my full healing potential until it's done. So, let's see. I haven't scoped out any lawyers yet, but I know a few in town and I might start putting out feelers in June and see. I believe that I am ready. I also don't know if I will fully be able to date and get out there if I am still technically married. Maybe I am just too old fashioned.
M - IMO having just gone through the process, the piece of paper helps more than you think and I did not even think about putting myself out there to date while being separated.
Early on I agree the paper won't help because processing the emotions still has to happen but for me, when she told me she was ready to move forward with the D I did feel a huge weight lifted off of me. I understand where you are coming from.
As far as dating goes, it was my personal preference to not because technically I was still married. So yeah probably old fashioned as well . I also didn't want to be in a situation where I had to explain myself, still married, but separated, blah blah.....I was too self-conscience. I still kind of am just about a month out from it being final.
I have a buddy that I play basketball with tell me that when he first started dating and ladies found out how recent he was from being D'd some of them told him that they were not interested because of where he was at or where they thought he was at mentally. I guess they were looking for something serious and thought he wouldn't be able to provide.
It's good to keep hearing of your progress! Does your wife know about your plan to file after year? I wonder how she'll react when you initiate the process? It'll be interesting to see if that's a wake-up call for her. It's too bad she's drifting along in life without seeking counseling for herself. At minimum you're a good role model for her and an awesome role model for your kids! That's amazing you went through depression because you'd never guess from all of your posts and how you're feeling now!
J9 - Thanks for the post-D perspective. Yeh, I think I am similar to you in that regard. Just won't feel comfortable until D is either in process or done. I understand your buddy's take on post-D dating and how women won't take you seriously. I don't plan on investing too much anyways, but we'll see how the scene is when I am ready. Not sure what's out there right now but I am a bit curious.
Nicole - W doesn't know that I am seriously considering filing. I will look at what are the options and see if we can do it in a way that is quick and clean and less costly. I don't know how she'll react to it, but she had brought up D once just after BD, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. Not sure if she'll initiate it - if she does, even better so that she owns that decision. But, I honestly don't care if she does it or I do it, I am going by what I believe is going to work for me.
About depression, yeh, I have basically been in and out of that type of state for a very long time. I've had many traumatic events in my life since early childhood and I always figured out how to survive since I was 5 years old. Unfortunately, that encoded within me a very particular way to react to adversity and I didn't even recognize that my reactions were destructive for me personally. I minimized myself as much as possible, put my needs and wants aside for everyone else, tried to always play peace-maker, always sought validation from the outside, never believed I was worthy, and so on.
I never even recognized that I was depressed. I had developed the reaction that I was always a survivor and that I could just survive traumatic events by myself. I was also ashamed to ask for help and thought it was weak behavior.
BD brought that into perspective. I recognized that what I had gone through in life was truly traumatic and I had to seek help for it. It wasn't something I could just overcome through sheer will.
So, I started IC, which started helping me ask hard questions and started to unpack all my behaviors and reactions rooted in the trauma, and finding ways to practice actions to overcome them. I am not out of the woods yet, but I am so much more self-aware and I listen to my emotions and thoughts a lot more closely to understand what I am feeling and then maybe why I am feeling it. I process it and then not let it affect how I am reacting to things. Simple example is if I see that I am feeling annoyed at something my kids are doing, I pay attention to that feeling and see if I am actually annoyed at the kids or I am feeling tired, annoyed, upset about something else and just projecting it to what the kids are doing. That allows me to take a step back and self-reflect. Once I recognize that what the kids are doing is not actually annoying, but something else that happened in the day is affecting my mood, I relax and let it go.
Some other things that have helped me greatly is taking accountability for my life and my actions. I always blamed external things for why my life was crappy or why I wasn't getting ahead in life. And yes, there are external events I had no control over and I could just stay in a victim mindset, or recognize that I was a victim of it, but I can make different choices.
My IC told me a couplea things that really helped me. She said that when you're a kid, you have no control and are recipients of whatever is going around you and other adults. So, you should forgive yourself for that time of your life because you had no control. Even in adolescence, you had little control, and so forgive yourself. But, when you reached adulthood and were out in the world, you achieved that control and now can make decisions to positively impact your life. So, now you have to take accountability and stop blaming external events. You can view external stuff as constraints, but what can you do about it in relation to your goals and life.
Once I took that accountability on and started to forgive myself, it was a huge turning point.
The question that I ask myself now is - Not why is this happening to me but, what did I do to allow this to happen to me?
This shift in thinking has totally changed how i look at things. I am no longer a passive recipient of life, but I have agency and I can exercise it and not let people walk over my boundaries.
One other piece that really helped me with my goals and thinking was this article by Benjamin Hardy called 'Willpower doesn't work'. Google it. Very powerful article - he wrote a book about it and it is well researched. Changed the way I look at my goals and decisions.
So I attacked my depression head on and I asked for help. I put in the work for myself. I took responsibility for myself and held myself accountable - instead of me beating myself over and over again for my failures (which I did in the beginning of this process as that was my natural reaction), I slowly started feeling empowered. And with every decision I made I felt that power and control come back in a very positive way.
So, I stopped wallowing in my self-pity and victimhood and realized that I had a lot of power to change my circumstances and meet my goals. And that is precisely what I am doing now. I have my setbacks, but instead of giving up and feeling depressed about it, I let myself feel the failure and disappointment, and then I start planning how I am going to bounce back.
Last week, I had a huge emotional breakdown and I relapsed into smoking. I justified in my head as I am just going to have cheat week. But now I am in the second cheat week and I know that the addict is rearing it's ugly head back. So, I have planned to quit after tomorrow and restart the clock on the quit. The change now is that I believe in myself as I have done it before, but I am also determined to not a small failure control everything and ruin all my progress. I am just mentally stronger now and I know that I have it within me to succeed.
You will read this in the article I mentioned, but one thing stood out to me and I have it on my wall - a quote from Michael Jordan. He was asked how he could be so on top of his game for so many years and train hard.
He said - "I spent a lot of time thinking about what I wanted to do and why. But, after that, once I made the decision, I never thought about it again."
I read that every day and know that I am ready for that mindset.
Haha - just realized it's one year this week since BD! oh boy it's been a long journey. I honestly couldn't have imagined being here in this emotional and mental state a year ago.
Man, the world fell apart, but I picked up the pieces and am putting everything back together - different but better.
Big shout out to everyone here - in particular AS, Sandi, Benito, J9, LH, LC, Blu, TxHubby, Vanilla, Holding, Tread, Rose, CW, Slater, Nicole and many many others. This community is a huge part of why I am here today standing strong.
I am loving life everyday and getting closer to my goals.
M, I had mulitple BD but the first one was a little over a year ago. Never thought I would ever be in this position but I am and I'm dealing with it. Doesn't do me or anyone else(my kids) any good dragging my tail around playing the woe is me card, too much awesome life to live!!
You're updates, I got to say are truly inspirational! I followed along and tried to implement things you were doing because it seemed you had you sh$t together. Keep up the hard work, it will pay of one these days!
Thanks dusty for the kinds words and encouragement. I am just sharing my journey and trying my best to be the best version of myself so that i can look at the man in the mirror and be content. Mentally and emotionally I am hella proud of this man, but physically, I still need to lose some pounds and get those abs of steel lol. I just want to be in better shape and if those abs come with it, i'll be a happy camper.
I've gotten so much inspiration from others here too and I faked holding my $hit together just to get by, and only since about 2 weeks I feel that I actually have my $hit together. It's been a big shift and I am very happy about it.
I know I am on the path to my goals and it's the best anyone can ask of themselves. I am putting in the work and not letting life happen to me anymore. It's such an empowering feeling to take charge of your life and know that you have the ability to make those changes others just dream about.
I know I am a better man than I was a year ago. Just a few minutes ago a younger person on my staff thanked me for my mentorship and it was such a great feeling. I don't think I would've been able to do that a year ago.
It is paying dividends and I am being patient and compassionate towards myself. Turning this ship will take time, but I have my hands on the wheel now.
Well I am officially D d living in the same house sleeping in the same bed and still having sex lol. She closes next week but wants to stay and not tell the kids until school is over. I think I am ok with it because it would be less stress for them and whats another month.
Rumor has hit that she has experienced bouts of sadness but I havent seen it.
Im ready for the next chapter of my life, everything is awesome right now in my life except for the one part of it.
Doing Crossfit, training for a half marathon just got a promotion and thinking about a motorcycle.
As with many situations I think shell want me back at some point but like many it will most likely be too late.
I went through hell but came out on the other side. Im a better man for it and will try to pay it forward and keep on keeping on lol!
Last edited by Cadet; 05/11/1801:25 PM. Reason: restored post
Well I am officially D d living in the same house sleeping in the same bed and still having sex lol. She closes next week but wants to stay and not tell the kids until school is over. I think I am ok with it because it would be less stress for them and whats another month.
Rumor has hit that she has experienced bouts of sadness but I havent seen it.
Im ready for the next chapter of my life, everything is awesome right now in my life except for the one part of it.
Doing Crossfit, training for a half marathon just got a promotion and thinking about a motorcycle.
As with many situations I think shell want me back at some point but like many it will most likely be too late.
I went through hell but came out on the other side. Im a better man for it and will try to pay it forward and keep on keeping on lol!
Stop using contractions and your posts will appear.
Interesting......how did u handle when it was official? Do your kids have any clue what is going on? I have not seen any sadness from my W either, but I am sure they will experience it at some point. No OM has appeared on the scene yet and I agree at some point I feel my W will want to come back as well. I am moving closer to dating again, today it has been 1 month since it was official.
Have you been training long for the 1/2? My ex ran marathons and it always amazed me how someone could run that long. What do you think about? I still hit the gym 6 days a week but havent had the desire to do anythIng like that yet. Makes me think?
Do you have experience with riding a motorcycle? My dad always had them when I was growing up.
Last edited by Cadet; 05/13/1801:51 PM. Reason: restored post
Well i guess that didn't work. LH when was the D final? How you holding up? Are you mentally prepared to tell the kids? Do they have any idea? If my EW has experienced sadness she has not shown it to me. I always hoped and thought she would wake the F up but I have now accepted that it won't happen for quite some time if ever.
My EW was a marathon runner, I could never understand what she thought about while running for that long. What do you do to keep your mind occupied? Have you ever owned a motorcycle before? My step-dad always owned them when I was young, the seem so dangerous these days.
When do you think you will put yourself out there again?
Hopefully you are at peace. D day was rough for me emotionally, I remember feelingso defeated and emotionally drained. I can so vididly remember telling the kids. I supposed it is something you will never forget. When we sat them down they thought it was to tell them where our vacation was going to be. Needless to say they were shocked and our youngest asked if it was going to be forever. It crushed me.
Fast forward a year and everything has become a new norm. The girls are happy and adjusted which tells me that I did something right. I had them all day today as the EW didn't come get them until about an hour ago. Had flowers for her and got some gifts for her from the girls. Needless to say this has all become BAU.
You were a beacon of hope in my darkest days and I will be eternally grateful.
Dude you made me drop a tear for the first time in a long time.
Thatwhat is so great about this forum.
I just watched an episode of californiacation. I am always struck by how Hank looks feels about Karen. I didn't have that look and feel for my wife. I loved her but not in that way.
Maybe she could feel that and wants and needs more.
I am at peace because I am a believer in everything happens for a reason and nothing truly lasts forever. Someday we will know why. Just not right now.
I am still a work in progress and am just tryin to get a little better everyday.
Your a great man and a great father so do not ever lose sight of that.
I am just amazed at your fortitude LH - you being able to DB and just move on with life with your W basically still in your life like an-almost-wife, with the extracurricular activities to boot. I don't know how you did it man.
Not sure how I am going to feel when D comes around, but for some reason today I really felt like I wanted it to be over with. This D kinda needs to happen now because I am in a place where I need that as a last step to the MR chapter and I can continue on my path towards healing.
Trying to get a little better every day as well. Kids went with W today and they were excited about it, which made me happy as I never want them to think they have to side with either parent.
I am a bit behind some of my goals and I've realized that I am not putting my full 100% because I am afraid of failure. Part of it is also I am not believing in myself fully. So, that's my thing I am tackling right now and figuring out how to give everything to my work, personal goals, and just not worry about failure. Also looking at failure as a good thing because it is a learning experience.
However, I am not beating myself over the head about being behind my goals - more self compassion than I had before. But I am also thinking of all the goals that I have had amazing progress on to balance out what I haven't fully achieved yet. So, that's a victory too - having a positive mindset and getting up after falling down.
Ha! Well I seem to have that effect on the men around here. You, Nef and maybe some others! Hopefully I will have the same effect on the ladies
Thanks for the kind words you are a good man as well. I can tell that by how you have handled letting your W stay in the house. You don't talk about yourself too much but that shows the character that you have or that you are continuing to build.
Ah...Hank Moody. I used to have that feeling for my EW but I lost it along the way. We grew apart. Honestly though IMO Karen felt the same way about Hank but he just kept on fuching it up. I hate it but it happened and while I was in the middle of it I couldn't see the forest through the trees to recognize it before it was too late.
I will always love my EW. I don't want to be her erand boy and the guy she calls when her toilets are clogged but if [censored] hits the fan I will be there. Even though she is on her journey and we are no longer together I will be rooting for her from a distance.
Even though she is on her journey and we are no longer together I will be rooting for her from a distance.
That is such a great perspective. If it comes to that, I would love to get there with my W.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
M - Goals, no goals IMO as long as you are happy and content that is the most important thing.
You have been at this for a long time. You are probably more ready for D than you realize and probably more importantly ready for some closure. IMO you can DB your rear off but as long as you are technically still married it is hard to completely move on 100%. Maybe if you were doing this for years but in our timeframes.
I am just amazed at your fortitude LH - you being able to DB and just move on with life with your W basically still in your life like an-almost-wife, with the extracurricular activities to boot. I don't know how you did it man.
Not sure how I am going to feel when D comes around, but for some reason today I really felt like I wanted it to be over with. This D kinda needs to happen now because I am in a place where I need that as a last step to the MR chapter and I can continue on my path towards healing.
Trying to get a little better every day as well. Kids went with W today and they were excited about it, which made me happy as I never want them to think they have to side with either parent.
I am a bit behind some of my goals and I've realized that I am not putting my full 100% because I am afraid of failure. Part of it is also I am not believing in myself fully. So, that's my thing I am tackling right now and figuring out how to give everything to my work, personal goals, and just not worry about failure. Also looking at failure as a good thing because it is a learning experience.
However, I am not beating myself over the head about being behind my goals - more self compassion than I had before. But I am also thinking of all the goals that I have had amazing progress on to balance out what I haven't fully achieved yet. So, that's a victory too - having a positive mindset and getting up after falling down.
OK goals.
Let's reframe this.
There is a next step to goals and that's review.
Resisting doing something on a goal has meaning. It is important.
1. It shouldn't be on there and it doesn't fit now (even if it was great) drop it as a goal
2. It is not for now but for later. Shelve it and review next time.
3. You are Resisting the goal, you can do but aren't. If the item is anot essential then this has to explored. Why don't you want to do it? What is getting in the way? Is it resolvable? Is there a part you can do are not Resisting.
4. The goal is too big. Break it down into smaller doable steps.
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OK some examples from my own goals
1. I desperately wanted to get fit, I added walking to my goals including a meet up walking club. I am very fair and I have a neuroma in my left foot. I dropped this goal and replaced it with spinning.
2. I want to learn Portuguese but am currently studying law, so I deferred this goal.
3. I want to lose weight. I lost a lot then lost motivation. Why? The extra weight was serving as a barrier to a new R, so it was doing something positive for me. Once I faced that I set myself a smaller goal of losing smaller amounts and I know I can stop at any time. It's slower but I am moving to my goal.
4. My business was in very bad shape after the G left. Four years on its floating but not thriving yet. It will be rebounded. So moving to surviving, floating (profit), and then onwards to thriving has had to be done in smaller chunks.
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Hope that helps.
I review my annual goals on my birthday, some goals are now just ticking over, such as clearing the junk and repairs. Next will be improving.
V
Last edited by Cadet; 05/14/1812:55 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
getting stronger and technically better every week. 
