I had to run some errands, and W texted reminding me to get dog food. I told her I will cause i'm out, then i'll be stopping for lunch. She said she'd meet me. We had lunch for an hour (although I ate next to nothing). I'm kind of upset.
She began by talking about her IC last night, and started with asking me questions about 'who told me what' regarding OM. We've been through this before, but she said she's trying to figure out if she should really be mad at our 'friends' or not. Obviously not what I cared about hearing out of the gate, but I again told her the timeline of what I was told. She again said some of it was BS, but took responsibility for what she'd done. She said her IC told her something along the lines of, 'why did everyone flip out so bad when this blew up? There was nothing physical right?' I couldn't believe an IC would say that, so I said 'she didn't think it was a big deal?' W said that IC did say it was a big deal, but just not something that should destroy 5 relationships (us, and our friends).
She then proceeded to give some disturbing details about her texts w/ OM. Nothing I didn't already assume, but did say she pursued it a little more than him. Also said one night he sent her some 'sexting' type of messages, and she played along for a bit. I about puked on the table. She still maintains he meant nothing, and she hasn't contacted him since the day this blew up, except for a text asking him to delete their texts last week. He never replied. She said she's kind of mad because he put all of this on her, and is pretending to be completely innocent. She said his last reply to her a few weeks ago was about how he was scared to death that I have people everywhere looking for him. I just grinned and said, 'he should be scared'. lol
She said IC asked if we considered MC. W said we've talked about it, but I told W that I want her to be fully committed to it before we go. IC told her 'that's hard, because a lot of MC is determining if there is a committment'. I told her I'm not expecting guaranteed results, just guaranteed effort. W says if she would go, she would do the work and give effort. W also told IC that she's been considering MC for us for the last year, but put it off because it was 'too much work'.
IC said it's really tough to get physical attraction back. W said that she is still very physically attracted to me, but the problem is there is no emotional connection. And she has no idea how to get that back, or if it's even possible. W also very concerned with how my friends and family perceive her now, and how she can't stand the thought of being around any of them because of what they probably think of her. She said they all think she's the villian, but they don't know the whole story about how she felt neglected for years. Add that on top of our original marital problems, PLUS now a huge trust issue, she wonders if it's just way too much stuff to overcome. She's not ruling out trying, she says the 'villian' and trust stuff is entirely her fault, but that's why this is so 'complicated' and will be so much work.
W told IC that she has noticed a lot of great changes in me the last few weeks. Doing more household stuff, spending even more one on one time with son, and most importantly, being nice.
I"m sure there's other stuff I missed or forgot. Essentially, we're in no better shape than before I guess. Much of it she seemed more concerned with relationships with her friends and perceptions people may have of her, then actually our relationship. And despite continuing to take responsiblity for her actions, she did try to justify things, even if a little bit. I really tried my best to validate everything. I mostly listened the whole time, and I didn't argue a single point that she made even though I was fuming about a lot of it.
I do feel really bad that at the end, I did say something like 'if or when you're willing to commit to MC, I think I'd be willing to go also'. I think that's giving her too much power?
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
First, I know the texting with OM man thing was tough. But some ICs and MCs recommend full disclosure. I am undecided on the issue of full disclosure. I think full disclosure can do more harm than good. There is just some things the LBS never needs to know, R or not. But also I can see how it could be cathartic. I think your W's sharing it was to show she is willing to be honest, and also to show how far it went. Overall a positive.
Second, on the emotional connection. This is where MC can be huge. One of our MC's biggest initiatives was to get us to "reconnect". You are right, trying to reconnect is futile UNLESS she is willing to put in the effort. Which at least sounds like she is open too.
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I do feel really bad that at the end, I did say something like 'if or when you're willing to commit to MC, I think I'd be willing to go also'. I think that's giving her too much power?
Nothing wrong with what you said. And no it isn't GIVING her power, it is acknowledging that this is and has always been within her power. In a way that is a good thing because it shows you have no control over her being open to R. Something a lot of people get tripped up on thinking they can control and manipulate. You have recognized this is out of your control and you've let go of that.
I am not seeing a lot negative here. I understand it wasn't comfortable. And I'd also continue to take some of the things she says with a grain of salt. Did the IC really minimize the EA? Or did your W take her words and twist it to make it sound that way. We'll never know. 5 relationships have been destroyed over much less than that before.
Also I want to comment on this for other newbies' sakes:
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W also very concerned with how my friends and family perceive her now, and how she can't stand the thought of being around any of them because of what they probably think of her. She said they all think she's the villian, but they don't know the whole story about how she felt neglected for years. Add that on top of our original marital problems, PLUS now a huge trust issue, she wonders if it's just way too much stuff to overcome. She's not ruling out trying, she says the 'villian' and trust stuff is entirely her fault, but that's why this is so 'complicated' and will be so much work.
This is why I strongly advocate NOT telling others about your sitch. Your family, her family, your friends, her friends, no one else needs to know. Usually the LBS tells others hoping they'll put pressure on the WAS to stay. To shame them into staying and stopping what they are doing. However, that is STILL pressure, and pressure almost always pushes the WAS further away. AND it makes it that much harder for them to eventually comeback for the very reasons your W enumerated.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
First, I know the texting with OM man thing was tough. But some ICs and MCs recommend full disclosure. I am undecided on the issue of full disclosure. I think full disclosure can do more harm than good. There is just some things the LBS never needs to know, R or not. But also I can see how it could be cathartic. I think your W's sharing it was to show she is willing to be honest, and also to show how far it went. Overall a positive.
Second, on the emotional connection. This is where MC can be huge. One of our MC's biggest initiatives was to get us to "reconnect". You are right, trying to reconnect is futile UNLESS she is willing to put in the effort. Which at least sounds like she is open too.
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I do feel really bad that at the end, I did say something like 'if or when you're willing to commit to MC, I think I'd be willing to go also'. I think that's giving her too much power?
Nothing wrong with what you said. And no it isn't GIVING her power, it is acknowledging that this is and has always been within her power. In a way that is a good thing because it shows you have no control over her being open to R. Something a lot of people get tripped up on thinking they can control and manipulate. You have recognized this is out of your control and you've let go of that.
I am not seeing a lot negative here. I understand it wasn't comfortable. And I'd also continue to take some of the things she says with a grain of salt. Did the IC really minimize the EA? Or did your W take her words and twist it to make it sound that way. We'll never know. 5 relationships have been destroyed over much less than that before.
Also I want to comment on this for other newbies' sakes:
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W also very concerned with how my friends and family perceive her now, and how she can't stand the thought of being around any of them because of what they probably think of her. She said they all think she's the villian, but they don't know the whole story about how she felt neglected for years. Add that on top of our original marital problems, PLUS now a huge trust issue, she wonders if it's just way too much stuff to overcome. She's not ruling out trying, she says the 'villian' and trust stuff is entirely her fault, but that's why this is so 'complicated' and will be so much work.
This is why I strongly advocate NOT telling others about your sitch. Your family, her family, your friends, her friends, no one else needs to know. Usually the LBS tells others hoping they'll put pressure on the WAS to stay. To shame them into staying and stopping what they are doing. However, that is STILL pressure, and pressure almost always pushes the WAS further away. AND it makes it that much harder for them to eventually comeback for the very reasons your W enumerated.
Thanks Steve. I've been hoping you'd reply.
I'll start with the friends/family stuff. I told her last week and again today that I understand why she feels that way. But honestly, and it's the truth, that I've only confided in 2 of my own friends with the whole truth. One of which lives 1500 miles away. Everyone else, I've really only said that we're having M problems. If they pressed, I'd say that we're on the fence about working on it/separating. That being said, I have no idea what my brother and SIL have told my parents, but I again assured her that my parents and family will 'go with' whatever decision I/we make. But, and it wasn't just validating, I really do understand why she'd feel like everyone hates her. The truth is though, nobody really does, and I think all relationships will be repaired in time (I did tell her this too)
I also understand her issues with me not trusting her. When we were dating 15 years ago, I was a pretty jealous person. She brought some of that on herself back then, but I was an immature idiot too. She said that in the 10 years we've been married, she's never had anything close to something like this happen. She also admitted to me and IC that she knows she's in a deep depression now.
I guess (you know me and my negativity, lol) I'm not too optimistic because it's been about 6 weeks now (I know, marathon...), and she still isn't any more sure about wanting to work on our M. I mean, she's more open to it than she was, but she said a few times about how much 'work' it would be, and she's not sure if it's worth it. She's going to continue her IC sessions. I told her that I'm going to continue to not pressure her or initiate R talks, but I'm here if she wants to talk. I also made it clear that I have issues now that I need to deal with (EA stuff).
On another note, she still isn't wearing her wedding ring, which for some reason does bother me. Oh, and she said a few ladies she works with commented to her that, due to our lack of sex this last year, they can't believe I didn't cheat on her. I wanted to say 'because I took my vows seriously', but instead I said something like, 'because 30 minutes of fun/sex was never worth losing my W, son, house, half my money and possessions, my reputation, etc '
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
don't talk about OM. Period. She wants to know something that someone else told you? That's really none of her business. Peole figure these things out on their own a lot of times. If you asked where she was with OM, she would tell you the same. Don't go down that rabbit hole again IMO. It can't be good for you to talk about the OM either, so I'd stop that.
I wouldn't disclose who or how many you've spoken to about your sitch either. Is honesty required from you but not her? Figure out what's right for you with this.
When she went on and on about her IC and everything, just listen and validate her feelings. Don't let her tell lies. That's it.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I didn't bring up OM. That's twice now she asked if there was anything more I'd like to know about it, and both times I said no. What I do know is she hit on him at a concert, they began texting personal/marriage stuff, they started flirting, and there were at least a few inappropriate/sexual texts. This occurred over a 3 week period.
As for friends/family. I'm struggling with knowing her sincere intentions on that a bit. Is she just worried about it because she doesn't want people 'hating' her and wants her BFFs back? Or is it because if we do try to save us, she wants/needs a smooth transition back into their lives? I'm guessing a combination of both. I don't blame her for being paranoid about everyone thinking stuff. I know a ton of people in this town, and have a lot of friends and family.
I think I did do a good job of validating today. A few times today she even looked at me funny when I'd say, 'i don't blame you for feeling that way'. lol.
Steve, or Ovrr, should I text her that I appreciate her honesty today? Or just let the conversation go?
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
