I've been reading on this forum quite a bit over the last 10 days.....
Not sure how much information I should provide and a bit hesitant to put this on a public forum but I'm in the last resort/nowhere to turn phase.
One wrinkle to our relationship is we work together. Have ever since graduating (met in grad school and married right after graduation). So, we have essentially been around each other day in and day out since we've been married.
W has had infidelity issues. First one started with one of my best friends from high school after about 2 years of marriage. It lasted quite awhile behind my back. OM's wife found emails between the two of them so we had a confrontation, all of us, and they admitted to it. We live in a very small town, my hometown, so there is always a constant reminder of what took place. Small town settings are very hard - everyone knows everyone and everything it seems. At the time, we had our first D and our second D was about 4 weeks old. I obviously wanted to forgive and move on but at the time (ignorantly now that I look back) I felt like it was none of my doing/fault and that she needed the help.
Moving forward, things were ok I guess I would say. We had our S, built our business, etc. Until this year....
Another wrinkle in my sitch, my wife was sexually abused, along with all of her siblings, by her biological father back when she was 3-4 yrs. old. Her mom and future adoptive father NEVER spoke about what happened, never got the kids counseling, etc. They sort of swept it under the rug and tried to move forward as if things never happened. In March, my W got curious about what all took place and so she received all of the case filing documents and went through them along with case filings of victims of her father's afterwards. He's been incarcerated ever since and she found out he is set to be released sometime this year. Unfortunately, I knew she was looking into this, but I didn't ask her what she found, how she was feeling and she never opened up to me about it either. I can clearly point to communication as the ultimate crux of our problems from Day 1.
In May, while I was away on a trip, I find out that my best friend from college's W found my W and my best friend on the couch doing an act I do not even want to explain. It wasn't sex but was more than kissing. She pleaded with me that she had been retraumatized by her findings about her past and that she doesn't have the control to say No, especially when she's been drinking (which they both admit to being pretty drunk when the incident took place). By the time I got home from the trip it had been a week since this incident took place (happened the first night I was gone) and so I had some time to reflect and decided that I was willing to, once again, forgive her and try to move past it. I felt like this situation was different that the previous and her recollection of what took place was more or less him sort of forcing himself on her. He told me he initiated the contact so I trusted what she told me. She told me she always viewed him as more of a brother. They were pretty close because they both likes to run, workout and the like. I told her I am willing to try to move past this but this is the last time.
Her IC sort of confirmed the retraumatzing effect it had on her and that she's never really been able to associate sex as something other than a secret in her life. She was also sexually abused as teen while on a church retreat/trip.
Over the last couple years, I've tried to be more communicative with her. We both read the 5 Love Languages book a couple years ago and found that mine was physical touch. We have had sex regularly but I wouldn't say it is 'intimate'. She almost never initiates any physical affection or intimacy with me and I'll get frustrated by it until finally I'll confront her and tell her how I feel. Never in an argumentative or 'blow up' type conversation but more from a 'this is what I need to feel loved.' type of a way She will make random attempts after each of these conversations but it eventually falls by the wayside after a few days or week.
That brings us to now. Earlier in Sept she told me it was one of her New Year's Resolutions to hike a mountain in Colorado with her brother and that she wants to do this for "her." I was in favor of it so she went out there on Sept 16, was going to hike it with her Brother on Sept 17 and come home. I received a text from her on Sept 17 that said it the hike took a lot longer than expected, was way harder than she expected but she was probably going to miss her flight that was scheduled to depart later that day. I was sort of 'miffed' but was OK with it. She got home the morning of Sept 18 and it was business as usual until I was on her work computer right after lunch on Sept 19 and found pictures of her and OM on this hike together. There were screen shots of messages between the two of them and a picture of him kissing her on the neck. I flipped out and text her to pack her @#$% and get the hell out of my house. She asked where she was suppose to go and I said "you should have thought about that beforehand."
Needless to say, I caved and allowed her to sleep in the basement that night while we sorted things out. It was a high anxiety and high emotional time for both of us. That next morning I couldn't handle it anymore so I went to see a IC for the very first time in my life. The counselor assured me that her characteristics can absolutely be traced back to what happened to her in her childhood and that reopening all those wounds when she did the research earlier this year only exasperated things. That at least felt somewhat good to hear. Over the next day or 2, we talked about how this was going to work. Remember, we work together and have ever since graduation, so she was going to have to get a different job, etc. We talked about those things, child arrangements moving forward, how assets and debts would be split, etc. She saw her IC the day after I saw mine and both of them told us we shouldn't be "signing" anything yet. Just take the time to calm down before making any rash decisions.
Side note: This OM was a guy that was her brother's friend who we had just met over the 4th of July this year. He stayed at our house night and spent the day with us. First time either of us had met him. After he left, she showed me a message he sent to her about how amazing our kids are and what wonderful parents we are and how he just enjoyed hanging out with our family for the day. I thought it was weird and sort of sleazy and she kind of "intimated" that she felt the same. Clearly, that wasn't the case. Looking back, I think what a freaking low-life POS to do that BS.
She explained to me that she had every intention of doing the hike with her brother but when she told the OM she was going to do it he suggested he come along. She then told her brother at the last minute that she felt like she needed to do it alone because her IC told her she needs to focus on her strengths.
In the 10 days or so since all of this, I've seen my IC twice and she's seen hers once. She says in her session after the incidence took place that they still mostly talked about her childhood events and haven't really delved into our M and those issues. She has another session scheduled for this Friday.
I have since prayed hard about this and am willing to try to work out our problems in a healthy manner -- getting MC, IC for the both of us, etc since we've never done that in the past. We've sort of just tried to moved past the incidents on our own and I have been too ignorant to realize that we both need help. She, needless to say, was not sharing with me her thoughts about any of this. Her excuse was "I need to see my IC one more time before I can talk with you about what to do." I finally got her to open up a tiny bit this last Sunday night that she is still leaning towards walking away.
I for the life of me do not understand why she wouldn't want to at least try to work on our M? I feel like I should be the one that is hesitant, not her. I know my sitch is only about 2 weeks along, but I've been trying to become a better version of myself. I've been working out, going to daily mass when I can, etc. I've told her numerous times that I am now in a place or have been awakened to the fact that I probably wasn't there for her emotionally in the beginning stages of our marriage and that is why she turned to my friends and became close with them, I told her I now emphasize with what went on in her childhood and how that screws a person up. I told her know I need to change but also that she needs to change and that our communication issues compounded the problems of her own personal demons she's going to have to work through. She hears it but is pretty much non-responsive. I finally, after about a week of sharing my thoughts and feelings and telling her we CAN work through this, decided to try the DB method. I've been pretty much silent and not reaching out to her unless in absolute necessity re: work, kids, etc. She has come to me with random questions about surface level stuff in the past 2 days but I'm going to continue my DB methods and see where that gets me. Clearly me sharing my thoughts and feelings without anything back didn't work so I might as well try this.
I just don't know if I need to treat her as a WW or a WAS given she has those demons from her childhood in her. At one point she said "I just I hurt everyone I'm around or close to and I'm tired of hurting you constantly." When she told me on Sunday night that she was leaning towards leaving she told me that "God has been present through all of this and that he is speaking to her to go in that direction." I'm not going to argue with her, but since we are both pretty strong Catholics, I think if she stepped away to assess what she said, she would know that God probably wouldn't be telling you to leave if things are able to be worked out. I told her the ironic thing about this is I was planning on talking with her the night I found the evidence and suggest we need to do some MC or something to get us back on track. Too late to the party on my part I guess.
The fact that she won't at least express to me any desire to at least try to work things out is the main struggle for me right now. She did agree to "start with" one MC session and that counseling "is a must" and she stated those things probably a week ago. I also have told her I want to go to Retrouvaille as well but she didn't respond to that.
Any pointers or insight would be greatly appreciated and I can try share more if asked/needed.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I'm trying like hell to quit the pursuit. I've lasted 48 hours which is longer than I have the past 10 days. I had been trying so hard but then I tell myself 'I need to tell her one more thing.' Even she told me she felt suffocated by all of what I was saying to her.
Part of me feels sorry for her as a victim of her circumstances and also sorry that I wasn't there for her in the right way. It pains me to no end that she had this all bottled up inside her and that she didn't trust/feel comfortable with coming to me with how she was feeling once she read through all the crap she went through. Reading through that she said felt like she was reading about somebody else until it hit her that THAT stuff happened to her and her siblings.
I empathize, somewhat, with the fact that she didn't trust coming to me with anything. I have never been a real emotional guy and looking back I now realize we never did communicate in a healthy matter. I sort of brushed things aside and figured they would eventually work themselves out. Clearly that doesn't work. I absolutely understand that now.
I really want to try Retrouvaille. It sounds like the main objective is to teaches couples how to communicate the right way and effectively. I feel as though if we could figure that out, a lot of our issues could be resolved, with of course, her continued work on her own problem and issues that she needs to deal with through an IC which is definitely going to take time.
I'm just so clueless as to why she isn't more open (at this point in time at least) to trying to work through this, which is something we've never done in the past. It would be different if she was going to an IC regularly, or I was seeing someone or if we both had been to MC in the past. We haven't, unfortunately. Before, I was oblivious to the fact that I helped contribute to the strife.
My thought is, we can always call it quits if none of that works and we will both know we tried everything to salvage the M. I just have no clue how to move forward in an effective manner to which she will open her eyes and her heart to at least trying to work through all of our issues.
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
Wow. Exhausting. If I'm counting right that's 3 OM....... that you know of. I seriously hope you've been tested fur STDs.
I'm going to level with you, this is a DBing board but her issues are way beyond DBing. You don't give ages but I'm guessing you're relatively young. I don't give this advice often but I'm going to give it to you: run away and don't look back. Once is a mistake. Twice is a big problem. Three times is a pattern. This is who she is and I am not sure she can ever be faithful. Do you constantly want time be looking over your shoulder? Do you constantly want to be worried about who shes with what's she's doing?
Admit it. After the hiking trip you got suspicious and snooped, didn't you? You'd seen this movie before and you knew something wasn't right. And you were right.
Good luck in whatever you decide. If you decide to give it another try make sure she does the work and gets the help to be right. Or you are setting yourself up for BD 4.
Last edited by Steve85; 10/02/1810:14 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Affair timeline is: OM1 - sneaking for 1 year, and that happened when marriage was 2 years old? OM2 - this year, one time only that you know of? OM3 - a couple weeks ago?
Your W clearly has boundary issues. She clearly needs help for her very unfortunate abuse. She cannot have male friends, and you apparently can't either (if they were friends you could trust them). She cannot or will not, for the life of her, tell the truth.
My advice to you is to get to the gym, start lifting weights like a maniac, become a man's man, and work on your wolf stare. Take some boxing classes, MMA, anything. What do you do for fun? This woman doesn't respect you, these guys don't either. I've been a rough and tumble guy at times in my life, and I confronted the OM in my sitch, he stood behind his mother and told me about how I'm lucky his dad wasn't there. I laughed and smelled a little female dog right then and there. Well at least he knows if he sees me he better go the other way. Have you ever been in a fight, do you play sports, have brothers?
If your W wants to walk away from this, I say let her. She has so many issues and it's going to require a huge commitment from her to sort through them. She treats you like hell.
I'm a Catholic too, but I wouldn't call your W a "strong Catholic". She seems to not care about any of it. Harder for you to see, standing at ground zero over there.
You soften on her a lot. That isn't good. You have a pattern of caving. Do a 180 there. Or live with someone running roughshod over you forever. Read No More Mr Nice Guy.
Definitely quit pursuing. Unleash your rational mind. Why chase a woman who doesn't want you? This goes back to my advice on becoming a man's man. You don't respect yourself, she doesn't respect you, these "friends" don't respect you. Everyone is crapping on you. STOP EVERYTHING! Go and be a man! Find yourself right now and quit being miserable! My blood is boiling over here. She doesn't feel too sorry for you, right? So quit feeling sorry for her! This last paragraph is how you open all of the eyes.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I ordered the DR book yesterday. Should be here tomorrow. I will definitely check out No More Mr. Nice Guy. Appreciate that suggestion.
I've played sports all my life. Watch a lot of sports, hunt, fish, golf, scuba dive, spearfish and the like.
I'm not trying to make excuses for my "friends" and I hate to be so blunt about it, but both of them are married to women that most men wouldn't find "attractive." On the flip side, my W is VERY attractive. From an idiotic guy's point of view, if they are with someone who isn't that attractive and someone incredibly better looking than what they have starts befriending them, I think they decided to think with their nether region instead of their brains. But, I agree, great "friends" I had!
No STD test, because the 2nd OM wasn't intercourse. His face was down you know where when the OM's W caught them. I haven't had any PC with my W since prior to this last OM.
I've been working out. Can hardly eat a thing so when you combine the two, I've lost about 10lbs in 2 weeks. I've always wanted to lose weight but as you all know I wouldn't suggest this as the preferred weight loss plan....
She still isn't shedding any light on what her thoughts and feeling are. She said she wants to run everything by her IC first. Then she rambled on about how every other time in our M when we talk about stuff, I manipulate her into my way of thinking and she ends up caving to what I want, and she wants to be strong this time to decide for herself without getting scared and just agreeing with what I have to say, yada, yada, yada. I can't for the life of me understand where that's coming from, but I validated her thoughts by telling her I understand that she thinks that. I honestly feel like its more her rewriting history to justify why she won't tell me anything than anything else, but I just let it go....
M: 34 W:34 D:7 D:6 S:3
M: 9.5 years T: 12
OM found & BD (by me): 9/19/18 IHS begins W informs me she's moving out: 11/28/18 W files: 12/21/18 D Final: 2/25/19
I hope you realize how strong you are for dealing with this situation the way you are. Many people would break into pieces. You, my friend, are still fighting.
Let's use that strength to get you healing and back on your feet.
Here is what you need to do:
I - Detach. She needs to own and work on her $hit. Your W's actions are not yours to deal with. That is her battle she needs to figure it out for herself. You have your hands full as it is.
II - Work on what you can control...YOURSELF. You and your child's well-being depends on you being the best and strongest. You have control of that. Embrace it and strengthen the crap out of it. The term GAL is used constantly. Get A Life. Go out. Have fun with your friends. Pray. Take up a hobby. Spend quality time and make awesome memories with your child. Join a support group. Keep your mind positively occupied
III - Seek help Find a good IC to talk to about your issues with your situation. Venting to an IC helps with the pain, even it it's temporary. You will get good advice and guidelines that will serve you well as you embark on this journey. Journaling here is a good way to let out some steam.
IV - Keep your hopes up It will get better. You WILL be a better man, father, friend, son, and Husband coming out of this (whether it's with your current partner or someone else).
I and II are the most important. I hope that you are already doing those steps in one form or another.
I would also work on III as quickly as you can. The faster you can start the healing process, the sooner you can move forward.
We're here for you.
Last edited by pain18; 10/04/1805:23 AM. Reason: I can't grammar.
