Things are going well for me. Some incidents of mild note and other self-reflections. Will expand on it later today when I have some time to post at length.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
No worries Job! I know the speed at which this forum runs.
As I had mentioned in my previous thread, I wouldn't really be posting much on my own thread unless something major happens and if I am moving towards closing this chapter by going the D route. Well, nothing in the overall plan has changed but some minor incidents have happened.
W invited me over for dinner a few nights ago. That was a real turn of events. She has been nothing short of judgmental and her tone over texts has been accusatory about things that didn't happen. It's like going before the court and the jury has already deemed you guilty before you even open your mouth. I just kept to my boundaries about this and didn't take her bait and get into some complicated discussions, which would've also most likely brought up R talks. I am pretty good at not reacting in the moment - texting also helps to calibrate your responses and not just talk from emotion.
She went from a negative tone to sending me cheerful and even 'normal' conversation texts in the span of 2 weeks. I have no idea what happened to mark that change. Then follows the invite for dinner, which I accepted. Not because it would give me a chance to show her the 'new' me - I am way beyond that at this point. I thought it would be a nice change to how we've interacted, and her 'normal' texts kinda primed me to think that we could maybe do this.
Dinner went well and had fun with the kids. When I got to leave, kids got emotional that I was leaving. Especially my youngest one who had a very hard time saying bye and was physically holding on to me. I felt like crap in the moment and kept up a great face and gave her lotsa hugs and kisses and told her that I'd see her soon. My oldest put on a brave face but I could tell he was emotional as well.
I talked to a colleague of mine, who knows all about my sitch. Her advice to me was that I need to talk to her about what is going on - is she wanting to reconcile or this was just like a one off fun dinner. I am also past the point where too much time has passed and I am not so worried about the whole pursuit and pressure thing. But I decided that I am not going to do that unless she gives me another invite. As much as we can have a pleasant interaction, I don't want my kids to be in the line of fire for this. I don't want them to think that there is a possibility of putting the family back together. They've already been through so much and this is just another heartbreak.
So, if another invite comes my way, I am going to straight up talk about what's going on. If she feels pressure or pursuit, that I cannot control anymore. I won't do anything that jeopardizes the kids mental and emotional health. If she's having second thoughts, then that is a conversation I am willing to have to hear her out about it. But I won't play a game. I also want her to come at me direct in some way.
In the few days after the dinner, she has texted me about stuff, but it's been hot and cold and sometimes pleasant and sometimes more businesslike. It's a bit ridiculous. I am way more amused by it and it's not bothering me.
However, I was on the verge of having a talk with her about getting a separation agreement done, and this temporarily complicated the situation. I assessed it all and decided that I am going to have that conversation with her anyways as it is something I need to get done and start the process of closing the chapter. I am waiting for a couple of things to get settled and then will have the talk with her. Most likely by early next month.
The more time has passed, the more I have clarity on what I need from a partner and she has shown no indication that she has put in work to be that person. So, it's a done deal from my end as I see it.
I gave up mind reading a long time ago and I have interest in trying to speculate why her communications lately are hot and cold and she went from straight up adversarial to being more friendly. Don't know what's going on with her and I really don't care at this point. I am ready to move forward with my life and start dating and exploring who's out there. I also found out she's been using a dating app. It didn't catch me by surprise, because I knew she had dipped into it after and around BD, but now I know she's been out on the scene. That info doesn't change anything for me, but I at least know for a fact now.
My personal life is great. I moved recently and am getting my work and finances in order. I haven't paid strong attention tom my health, but that is the main priority now that some other things are settled. I am still working on being assertive and improving my leadership and communication skills. I have a very dominating colleague and they make me feel less skilled and I wonder if my work and skillset is valued. I know that this is just stemming from my insecurities and I need to just hustle and do my job well rather than compare myself to this person. They're not necessarily better than me, but are way more action oriented, and I am more thinking and planning oriented before taking action. So me not taking action all the time on things compared to them makes me feel like I am somehow lesser. I know it's in my head.
My relationship with the kiddos is stellar and improving. I do feel more grounded in life since I honed down my values and acting and reacting in alignment to them. I am also learning more about how to understand self-value and where that comes from. Heard an interview with Melissa Hartwig recently where she breaks it down really well. Gave me a lot more clarity on how to value and love myself.
All in all, life is good and getting better. I am still on the D path and unless something radical happens, I hope to get it all finalized and done by Q1 of 2019.
I am still reading some sitches here and there and will post when I have something to offer. Keep your focus on personal growth, understanding yourself and your values, and do things that bring you joy. Life is so darn short and I don't want to die with regrets.
Thank you for the update my friend M. Glad to read you are the usual wise and centered Maika of all your sitch. The DB force is strong in you M, you are still the DB master.
Good to see you shining bright.
Sending you and the kids a big hug.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I got sad when I read about you leaving dinner and the kids getting worked up. That just stinks to high heaven. So sorry Maika. You even keeled approach seems to be beneficial to you, emotionally speaking.
What are your plans for your health? It seems like you have most facets of life tied down except this.
Sorry to hear you are planning to file, but I hope it brings you what you are looking for.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Over, I used to read Maika posts and get sad just like you. It happened the same when reading Joseph9. But you know what, they have done their homework: they have got into amoafwl so when I read them I see consistency, I see their shining lighthouses. They are fabulous parents, persons having morals and honour. They have fought for their MR and they have come out being a better version of themselves.
So when I read them I see their kids being proud of them. And those feelings are forever into their relations. And that feels good, feels great indeed...
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Maika, your situation and mine kind of seem to be on the same path, and I can relate to a lot of what you've said. I don't think you should have the talk about what is going on in her head yet. You've had a pleasant dinner. I suspect dinner was a lure; don't bite! Maybe she's temp checking. Leave it at dinner for now. You've had a pleasant experience together, let her think about that for a while. If she's having second thoughts, she'll show more interest soon.
Just so you know, I won't go to her house for anything other than what's necessary. I had dinner there once, and it was very hard emotionally. I don't need to put myself through that again. And if your kids are distressed to see mommy and daddy together, and then daddy leave again, it's doubly not worth it.
It's awesome that you've achieved enough distance that you want to move forward with your life. When I got to that point, what worked for me was simply moving the D along. Scheduling mediation helped me achieve some additional distance, and a sense of having some control over the proceedings. Let her see both sides, that you are still the same wonderful, loving man she fell in love with, but you are ready to move forward, and she's at risk of losing you forever. You're not putting pressure on her; you're just giving her what she wants. The phrase, "Look, I don't want this divorce, you do, and not having enough (whatever) is a consequence of your decision," calmly stated, came up a lot. Maybe it will really make her think if she wants it after all.
I realize I'm a bit of a hypocrite in telling you not to bring up reconciliation and asking what she's thinking, having just done so with my W. We are really at the short strokes of finishing a separation agreement, and get along ridiculously well. Just so you know what was going on in MY head, it was more to make sure my conscience was clear knowing that I'd done everything I could to save our M, rather than with any expectation of success. I have no idea if I achieved anything else, but I absolutely achieved a clear conscience.
Just so you know, if you are really at the point where you are ready to move on, depending on how complicated your D will be, there is a HUGE financial incentive to get a signed Separation Agreement before the year's end. Tax law is changing, and if you do not get an Agreement signed before year's end, alimony will no longer be deductable to the payor, which may be a substantial tax hit to you.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
one more quick thing... when I did talk to W, I said I thought we should finish getting divorced, bury the old marriage, and start fresh. Remember, divorce is just a piece of paper.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Good to hear your update. As many of have already commented, your update, like all of your posts, comes across as centered and in-control. You really have reached a good place. Things might not be perfect at work, your W might still be playing games, but there will always be those imperfections or noise to deal with and you are now coming at them from a position of strength.
I agree with you that the most important thing is protecting your kids and making sure that you don't falsely raise their hopes. Your plan of waiting to see if there is another invite seems fair, and if not getting to work on starting the D process seems like it is in order.
I hope your body starts cooperating so that you can get yourself back into the shape you want to be. Are you able to climb yet?
Thanks for sticking around here and helping out us newbies. Your perspective and hard-earned wisdom is invaluable.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Ovr: It's a username here because it means, A Man Only A Fool Would Leave. (Edit: someone already said that, apparently I needed to hit "refresh")
Maika: you are an inspiration. After a rough week, I read through some of your posts and I am starting to develop a new, better, more positive mindset. I hope that a year from now I can be where you are, at least in terms of the way I relate with myself. Best of luck to you as you continue to grow stronger -- into amoafwl.
Last edited by burned; 10/13/1806:49 PM.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
It's good to hear your update. I wonder if your wife invited you over or started to change because she had been in another relationship that ended? Or she's lonely? Or perhaps she feels just a little sorry or guilty but not enough to come out and say it. It's good that you're not letting minor or indirect signals change your plan since obviously those aren't sufficient. I think the response you get from her when you tell her you're ready to file will reveal her feelings much more clearly.
"Look, I don't want this divorce, you do, and not having enough (whatever) is a consequence of your decision
I guess I'm understand your point without the context.
The rest of your post was marvelous. I really like your calm, thoughtful attitude.
When we were in mediation, and she would say something like "but that's not enough alimony for me to enjoy the same lifestyle I currently have!", my response was spoken calmly and compassionately, "I am offering what the state says is fair. Look, I don't want this divorce, you do. Not having enough money is a consequence of your decision."
"But after the children are emancipated, my alimony will go down, and I won't be able to pay my mortgage." "I'm offering what the state says is fair. Look, I don't want this divorce, you do. Not having enough money is a consequence of your decision."
"You're being so mean. I want more time with the kids." "Look, I don't want this divorce, you do. I want the kids to stay with me just as badly as you do. Not having as much time with the kids is a consequence of your decision."
"But where will I live?" "I don't know. That's for you to decide. I don't want this divorce, you do. Having to figure that out is a consequence of your decision."
Is that good, or do you need more context?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Thanks everyone for the great feedback and being my personal cheerleaders. This community means so much to me and I am so happy to connect with all of you as we navigate this bonkers phase of our lives. Good news is that there is an end to it and we can learn to live our lives even better.
Nef - Love having you in my corner. Mad hugs and love to you and I hope that you are doing well. I am so moved by your comment about fatherhood. Dang! You making me cry for a change. I also never had a father and I intend to give my children every bit of me and make sure that they got me forever in their corner with immense love.
Ovr - I totally get what you're saying. My journey has felt very long and you can read all up on it if you'd like and have the time. My decision to move towards D has been hard fought and it comes from a position of strength rather than despair or using it as a tactic. I am super good with who I am and what my values are, and I know what I have to offer the world. I have no regrets about my journey and what I have done to save my MR. At some point you have to truly choose yourself, and I am there. Also, don't worry about threadjacking me. I welcome discussion on my thread.
Jim - thanks for sharing the similarities in our sitch's. Yeh, I am leaving that dinner as a pleasant interaction and keeping the course as I have been. There is nothing to be gained from having a talk right now. I will though if there's another invite because I value my kids wellbeing over what happens with me and W. I get you about achieving a clear conscience. I definitely have that. Last time I put it all on the line, which was exactly 12 months ago, she gave me a clear 'NO'. I am not a man that is going to bring it up again. I have my dignity and value and I will not be a second option for anyone. Also appreciate the info about the separation agreement. Will look into it. Love your statement about how you said things to your W about consequences of her actions.
J9 - brotha! You got it right. There is nothing to be gained and I just have to stay the course. I just moved and I finally feel like things are settling in and I am on much stable ground. It's all looking up from here.
Davide - thanks for your kind comments. If my experience can shed some insight for anyone here, I will be eternally grateful to have had the opportunity to do so. I am definitely more grounded mentally and emotionally. I have worked very had to achieve that balance and get centered. W can't shake me no more. I am still not completely healed physically and so haven't been climbing for a good six months now. I am hoping that I can start again by the end of the year. Need to do my PT exercises more diligently and get the show on the road. It's not been great to not being able to climb or workout, but I did gain a newfound love for long walks listening to podcasts and have time for self-reflection. I aim to keep that up. Hope you are doing well and I do keep an eye on your sitch to see how things are going. Stay strong and steady.
burned - thank you for the generous praise. I credit this community almost a 100% for my recovery process and it has helped me more than my talk therapy sessions. I hope that my journey can highlight that there is a much better place coming up ahead. Just put in the work - find where you need more personal growth and tackle them head on, take accountability and ownership of your life, do things that bring you joy, and engage in self-care.
Nicole - it could be any of the reasons you mentioned or something else, I truly don't know and I don't care. I just don't give myself space for speculation and mind reading any more. I am getting on with my life and she does what she does. I will definitely get some idea of where she's at depending on how she responds to the separation agreement. I am not going to accept lukewarm attempts and dumb temp checks. As far as I can see, if she was able to be forthright about the separation and ending the marriage, she has it in her to do the same if she wants a different path to be taken. I am not going to coax it out of her. She's gotta come at me in some direct way and then we'll see. There's just no point in half measures. Life is just too short and I want to make the best of it for me and my kids at this point. If she wants to join the ride, then I need to see a lot lot lot more from her than this.
I know there's a lot of discussion here about patience and the value of standing and its nuances, and I wanted to clarify that I have not run out of patience nor do I not see the value in standing. You have to figure out your values and then make decisions based on that. My decision on moving forward with the separation agreement and then the D is based on knowing what I want from life and a partner. And what I want from a partner is not something W can offer right now. I honestly don't know if she can, even if she does therapy etc. So a part of me also feels that I cannot make her be someone she's not so that I would accept her as a partner. That's not fair to her either. She should find someone who matches her and what she wants and can give. And if she can't make those changes authentically the the recon is going to fail at some point because she won't be able to sustain the changes, or I will see through the facade and walk away.
On a different point, I am also wary of sinking more costs in a recon that may or may not work. I know that there is never a guarantee, but I simply can't put in more work with someone who abandoned me. Abandonment has been a huge theme in my life and I just don't know if I can ever get the trust back. I'd rather just take the losses the way they are and try my luck with someone else who might be a better match for me.
I will keep y'all posted for sure on new developments. Saw her again today and it was fine. Small chit chat about kids and some random stuff.
I am doing really good and looking forward to 2019. It's going to be a helluva year. Can't wait!
Hey everyone! I am going to try and do some periodic updates.
Moved into my new place 2 weeks ago. Been trying to get the small stuff out of the old place and clean it up for the last little while. I finished it all yesterday and so officially I am completely out of that place and done. It feels cathartic and I am enjoying my new place. It's all set up now, with a few things here and there still left that will take some time. Kids are happy and have adjusted well to the new place, which was my biggest goal. Now charting a new path and keep moving forward.
I went out last weekend to a meet up group and it was kinda fun. Putting myself out there and trying to make social connections. I will try out some other groups as well and slowly start filling up my schedule. I am still sidelined with my injury and so it will be a while before I can go back climbing. However, doc okayed me to start doing upper body workouts and so that's starting up again this week. I am excited about that.
Also, eased into my health goals as well recently. I am taking a relaxed approach and making good decisions about my food choices. I also started daily intermittent fasting last week and it's been awesome. Today is the first day where I feel my energy levels are low, but I might also be coming down with a cold. So health goals are slowly coming back on track and I am really happy with where I am and trying to be slightly better the next day.
Things with W are pretty status quo still. It's her big weekend this week - graduation ceremony from her program she finished earlier this year. Her family is here and I guess they're doing a big bash. I guess this is the first big thing where I won't be there. I honestly have no feelings either way for it. I don't feel like I am left out, particularly when I remember that this was her decision to just set me aside and out of her life. All the best to her, but I have no desire to be part of her life.
My work performance evaluation went really well. My boss acknowledge that they were not paying me according to my actual status and responsibility on the team. He and the HR rep are going to make it their top priority in 2019 to rectify that and get around red tape to fast track my title and pay promotion. So, I am pretty happy about that.
Damn Maika, things sound great with the GAL, new apartment, and successes at work. It's important for people to see the "other" type of successful outcome that doesn't include R. Thanks for sharing!
Good luck with the injury, I know how frustrating they can be!
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
That’s a great post Maika, overall rounded development in all spheres of life. I am so glad the kiddos adjusted to your new place, kudos to you for making it their new home. Well not having you at her graduation is her loss, you can only wish her luck and provide support from far. Good luck , keep rocking
Thanks as usual for the comments. I truly appreciate the positive support.
This week has been just quite something for me personally. Handed the keys to the previous place to the landlord and it's finally done with. It felt like a huge closure. That place served as a great base for me to get back on my feet and go through post BD motions. I found my stability and grounding that place and it was a sweet farewell. I thought I'd get emotional, but it didn't turn out that way.
The new place is pretty much fully set up and my mindset has suddenly shifted. Whatever uncertainty I had about the M has dissipated. I feel unbelievably strong and certain now. Like I have just found a reservoir of drive that I didn't know I had. I called the L and booked an appointment next week for a consultation to go over the next steps and what I need to do to get the ball rolling. I have come to a place of zero interest in trying to save the M. I plan on broaching the subject with W after my L consultation and jumpstart the process.
I feel calm and strong. I don't know how else to describe it. Whatever emotions there were about BD and M have finally settled. I don't want anything to do with W anymore and I feel good about the decision. I have never been as ready to D as I am now. This week has just flipped the mental and emotional switch in me.
I am back with a dedicated focus on myself and what I want to achieve. Doing my PT exercises and I am seeing improvements. Slow but steady. I have never been as optimistic about the future as I am now. I feel like I am unbreakable now. I know I have a long journey still ahead of me when it comes to my health and work, but I am feeling determined like never before.
I know the pain and despair of the LBS's that are here. I only write this to show you that down the road, there is something amazing waiting for you - the RECLAIMED YOU! I have just never felt such at peace with myself. Don't get me wrong, I have put in a ton of work for this and had my share of successes and failures. In the past, my failures would've stopped me dead in the tracks. Hell, thinking about potential obstacles was good enough for me to not even start.
I wake up every day with a new found vigor and focus and purpose. As I said, this week has been revolutionary for me. All the things in my mind and heart have finally clicked together and are in symphony. So if anything that can be learned from my journey, don't give up on yourself and your growth and your journey. Life is still ahead of you and it is short.
I know the next steps with W will potentially be difficult, but I am past the point of no return - it's happening whether she likes it or not. I will chronicle the journey here for sure. I am going for the most amicable and non-adversarial approach so that it's just all done. I know what I want and it's stemming from my values, so I know it's the right thing for me.
I am feeling positive and grateful and ready for this part of my life journey. This new place will be full of light, joy, fun, happiness, and perseverance. I know what I want from my life and I am going after it like I have never before.
Thanks Nef! Mad hugs to you and your fam as well. You keep the brilliance alive as well. Life is too short and I have become acutely aware of it now. No sense in wasting it. No regrets.
It kinda [censored] that things have gotten to this point. No one wants that to happen. I wish you the best going forward with everything. Just be prepared for life to try to put you on your butt again, but I think you are ready.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Ovr - yes, it $ucks that it has come to this point. There are no easy choices any more in life. All choices blow, but how you approach them is what matters. What is your mindset like? Unfortunately, life has been an a$$ to me for the majority of my life, so I know what it means to survive. I just choose not to 'survive' anymore, but actually thrive and not let life happen to me.
You only have control over yourself. W took a decision that impacted three other people who had no say in that decision. I am taking ownership, control, and accountability over my life and what W does or does not do has zero impact on it. One of the most important things I have learned throughout this journey to get to the other side is this - I am not waiting for her to do x, y, z... I am waiting for ME. The RECLAIMED ME! The quicker the LBS can truly internalize this fact, the journey becomes more simplified.
I sense some bitterness and anger in your response - I know it's not directed at me, but you're carrying it. I am not one who says get rid of your anger. I believe that you can use your anger towards the path of reclaiming yourself and then transform that into a continuous sense of drive. If you hang onto anger during that process and it doesn't start to transform, then you're just self-destructing at a slow pace. Best thing I read about anger - Anger is a poison one drinks themselves thinking that the other person will die.
I know life will throw more things at me, but unlike the past 'me', the reclaimed 'me' is well equipped. As David Goggins says - "you need to callus your mind; I am not training for a marathon, I am training for life so when I get a phone call in the middle of the night that my mom passed away, I don't fall apart. To grow, you have to suffer." Having gone through so much suffering in my life, I know how true that is. The only thing I didn't do is have the right mindset and understand that I had a say over how I could react to it. Now I do and it feels damn invincible.
To give me perspective, my therapist played a nice trick on me. She asked me to take a mental health survey that focuses on traumatic events that you have experienced since childhood. I took the survey at home and printed the results and took it back to my therapist.
I scored very high on the scale with the trauma that I have experienced since I was 5 years old. Here's the kicker.
According to the results, statistically speaking, I should've been chronically depressed, serious suicidal ideation, addicted to drugs and other substances, unable to hold consistent employment, homeless or living in very marginal settings, in very poor health, unable to function in social settings, and have fractured family relationships.
I am NONE of those things.
I was depressed for a while, but not chronically depressed. I have never contemplated suicide. I have never been addicted to drugs and substances. I am in a great job and I am a high performer. I live modestly, but I am nowhere near being homeless and I have a nice loving home, my health issues are genetic and I mostly have it all under control, I am very sociable and intelligent, and I have strong family relationships.
So, despite everything that has happened to me, I am here alive and well and thriving. I do not need to be a survivor or a victim. What I have overcome and the resilience that I have shown in life is far more important. And that I have accomplished that gave me perspective that BD is something I can overcome and be stronger. I have become and will continue to work hard to be a man only a fool would leave.
It's about mindset, perspective, knowing who you are, what your values are, and aligning all of that in pursuit of your goals and dreams. That's what I am about.
You got it LH. Goggins is the baddest beast alive. That man is such a f#$king inspiration. I have one of his motivational speeches bookmarked. I listen to it every other day and it gives me goosebumps and the wherewithal to keep the drive and fire alive. Embracing the suck every single day and loving it.
I know what you mean about feeling indestructible. It's so intoxicating and empowering. Age ain't no thang man, you still crushing it
I am an angry man!!! Not really, but sometimes I am. A lot of it I "learned" watching my father take out all his insecurities and failures on the people around him. And of course I am still hurt about where my marriage is. But you're right, getting to that mental "sweet spot" where you can be in control of yourself is what it's all about.
My W called me a "dumbass" last night in a mean way, for not pulling out of a driveway faster with a car coming. I could sense it was anger and bitterness like my father always showed. I used to spit a lot of this venom at my W. And I know this venom comes from hurt and pain. So I initially addressed the disrespect, but I didn't hang on to it. Will I tolerate forever? No. But being reactionary doesn't help a thing. Understanding other lashing out has more to do with their own chaos than anything is something I think you and I both "get".
And I really wanted to commiserate with you. Call her bad words, spit, cuss, you know: guy stuff!
So sorry for making my post all about me, I am happy for your progress. The part that stood out the most to me was your decision to no longer just survive, but to thrive. I think that's why you will do well.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Ovr - I'll get back to you with a response later today.
In the meantime, watch the David Goggins interview on Impact Theory (it's an awesome show on youtube). Watch David Goggins interview on the Joe Rogan podcast. If I could get every LBS to follow one person's journey, it would be this man. He's not just an inspiration, but a glimpse into the potential we have as human beings. There is hope for all of us to crush it in life.
Ovr - circling back to your post, yes, we learn so much from our parents consciously and subconsciously and it becomes our own internal pattern without us even realizing it. At least you can see where you're getting your anger from and how it manifests in your interactions with W.
Clearly, figuring out how to manage anger is one of your areas of personal growth. We all have ours that have contributed negatively to our relationships, with mine being having a sense of control over everything. I didn't even realize it until I went back to understand why I was behaving the way I was and what were the roots of that behavior. And then the next step is to unlearn and relearn new healthy behaviors. Not just so that we're good to others, but that we're good to ourselves - taking stress levels down significantly.
But you have to put in serious work. Acknowledging the truth is one thing, but translating that into action to make positive changes is another. You have to get it to it.
I don't know how you addressed your W's disrespect in the car, but you've gotta stop that stuff right in the tracks. There is in no way or shape anyone's talking to me like that. Accuray has an amazing post about this somewhere and I might've copied it in one my threads. If I have time I will go digging one day to find it.
Commiserate here for sure.
Don't worry about taking over my thread to discuss some topics. I am past the panic inducing stage of BD and so I don't post much unless there's something to talk about.
When I started out I didn't know if I was going to make it through and do well. So, don't discount your potential. Everybody can get to the other side. Just takes patience, hard work and some time.
My updates are sparse as things have just settled for me and I am way past the aftermath of the BD and wanting to reconcile the M. I have put the separation agreement process in action and it should be a smooth path. W and I agree on everything and now the L's are just drawing things up and we'll sign it by the end of the month. Right after that I will be filing for D and we should be able to do it jointly and save on L costs. The D process takes a bit of time, but it is just bureaucracy and waiting for it to get firmed up. I don't see any change in course from W. She had the opportunity to talk to me when I put the separation agreement process in action, but I got nothing from her.
It's all good. I wasn't starting all of this up as a temp check tactic. I am done and wanting to close this chapter from a legal point of view. We've been living like we're D for the last 18 months and this is just putting a fine point on it.
I have decided to start dating in 2019, with or without D papers finalized. D is just a procedural thing now.
In the mean time, I have lost 20 pounds over the last 12 weeks and my knee is close to being fully healed. I should be able to start working out fully and climbing by early February. I am super excited.
For the newbies, I am sorry you're here, but you're in the best place here. There is life after all of this and time and internal work will bring you home to yourself. Stay with the DB principles and do the work. It might not save your M, but will definitely save you. I am proof of that. And there are many of us here who are living full and joyous lives.
Dude.....great update! Last night I was home alone (it's my week without the kids), sipping some bourbon, watching Monday Night Football in my house, in complete silence (outside of the dog) and just thought to myself how awesome and blessed I am. Sure their are aspects of it that suck but truthfully my XW was a $hitty a$$ spouse and I deserve so much better. I didn't realize it when I was in the weeds emotionally but looking back this is the best thing that has ever happened to me. I hate paying child support but it is almost worth it
Yeh I feel you on W (XW in your case) being a $hitty a$$ spouse. I just know so clearly what I want and W doesn't have that. I am sure it is vice versa too, but I am still going to be AMOAFWL. I can see she hasn't done the internal work and I am in a different dimension compared to her. I don't want to go back and I am not waiting on years. Life is short and I don't know how much time I have on my hands. I am not wasting it and dwelling on the past.
The only thing that still stings is not seeing my kids every day. But I am really squeezing every moment with them and making sure they're good and we're having fun and spending quality time together. We did the xmas tree last night together and it was so much fun. Grateful for such moments every day with them.
Good to hear it Maika, I guarantee part of her is like WTH, he doesn't even care anymore! And the old saying is "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned", but I think a woman that isn't pursued by someone the woman thinks should be pursuing is even more infuriating.
Good for you on the mental and emotional clarity. I don't agree with divorce, but my morals aren't everyone else's morals and you guys have been apart so long that a formal D won't change much.
I wish you good luck getting back into dating. Are you going to be looking for something serious, casual, or just reliving your early twenties??? If it's reliving the early 20's, well, I'll expect reports on Monday mornings. The guys here can have a laugh while the women here call us immature. It could be great...
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I know after having them for a full week by myself I am ready for a break when the week is over. My X and I are very flexible with each other so if either one of us want them when it is not our week there are no issues. We sit next to each other at all of our kids games, school events, etc. One of the soccer parents commented to me that if they didn't know any better they would have no idea we were Divorced. I mean we don't sit there and chat it up but I want my daughters to feel comfortable around us both when we are together. I don't want it to be awkward for them or make them feel like they have to choose sides.
I know my XW has not done the work either. She went as is from me to another man. I agree also that I am sure it is vice versa with her as well, never wanting to come back however for her sake she does have some work to do on herself and while it is no longer my concern I know she would benefit from it. If I was stronger I would have tapped out along time ago, she might run into a guy that won't put up with her shenanigans and he could tap out like I should have.
Oh well, whatever. As long as my kids are happy (and they appear to be doing great) that is all I am concerned about.
Another success story! Maika it is great to see you happy, healthy and planning for the future. The new posters here should gain strength from you knowing that no matter what their spouses decide, they will be better for it and able to move forward.
Onward and upward Maika!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Great update! I am glad to read that things are going so well for you. I hope you know that it is because YOU did the hard work of letting her go, giving up control, and mostly because you focused on YOU! It's all in your attitude and hard work and not about winning back a (unhealthy) person or marriage! If your spouse isn't also willing to make positive changes in themself and recommit, then there is no M. You get it! We can all learn from you!
You and J9 are shining examples of how well DBing can work and you guys are both success stories that newbies should follow! Newbies, go back and read both of their threads from the start and you will see what I mean. This is how it's done.
M, are you going to join the chats in "Surviving The Big D?" Sometimes I peek over there and feel jealous at how much fun they are having and how active their conversations are!
Keep up the good work, buddy! Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
M, are you going to join the chats in "Surviving The Big D?" Sometimes I peek over there and feel jealous at how much fun they are having and how active their conversations are!
I posted in the last two week about how I've occasionally had pangs of wondering how it would have been if things had turned out differently. I have a friend that has never been married, never even had a steady gf. He is in his late 50s and does whatever he wants. Goes wherever he wants. Buys whatever he wants. I look at that and wonder if I did the right thing in fighting to hard to save my MR. I am happy, but could I have been happier?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
What a great update! It is good to hear that you are in such a strong place that you feel comfortable moving forward with the D. You have been an inspiration to me and many others throughout this process. I know that when I first came on here, I would have considered such a result a failure, but through your wisdom and advice I learned that success is predicated on the progress you make on yourself, not on anything external. You have certainly put in the work, both in taking stock of yourself and making improvements, but also in reaching out and helping others see the path forward.
I'm glad to hear that you are readying yourself to get out there and date again. It's a whole different world from the last time we were out there, and we carry the hard-earned wisdom from this process with us. I have little doubt that you will enjoy success in the dating world. I do look forward to hearing your perspective on that process.
It's also great that you are healing and nearly ready to climb again. Between a minor illness, oral surgery, holidays, and some dating, I have struggled to keep up with my climbing routine over the past two weeks. When I finally made it back to the gym on Sunday it was such an enjoyable experience. It felt so good to be back. I'm sure it will be even sweeter for you given the length of your layoff!
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
I don't see any change in course from W. She had the opportunity to talk to me when I put the separation agreement process in action, but I got nothing from her.
That may still come later, but you probably won't be open to it by then. My ex has just now started reaching out in unexpected ways (don't know if you saw my post elsewhere but she invited me to her mom's for Thanksgiving) but honestly, the old feelings are gone. I still love her and care about her as the mother of my kids and someone I spent many years with, but I can 100% say ILYBINILWY about her. I look at her and I don't see my "wife" anymore. For the longest time I thought this was a temporary thing, call it MLC or whatever, and that my old familiar wife would return, but now I'm convinced she's gone for good. The person she is now has radically different likes/dislikes/memories/attitudes. I'm not saying she is better or worse, just very, very different. The odd thing is I get the sense that the "new" her may be interested in me as more than friends, but I don't share the interest.
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I am done and wanting to close this chapter from a legal point of view. We've been living like we're D for the last 18 months and this is just putting a fine point on it.
I can relate to that, you probably remember me saying that I was the one that ended up pushing the D through. At some point the limbo becomes intolerable and you just want to end it and move on.
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I have decided to start dating in 2019, with or without D papers finalized. D is just a procedural thing now.
Be ready to put your newfound patience to the test, LOL!
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In the mean time, I have lost 20 pounds over the last 12 weeks and my knee is close to being fully healed. I should be able to start working out fully and climbing by early February. I am super excited.
It's good to read your update. It's sad on one hand that your wife's inaction has led you to this point but on the other hand it must be such a relief knowing you can soon move on with your life. It sounds like someone such as yourself will do great in dating and I'm sure some lucky lady will be more than happy to have you!
Thanks everyone for your comments! Yeh, it's been a long road and I am in a really good place.
Ovr I totally understand your take on divorce and I am not here to change anyone's mind about that approach. Let me just elaborate a bit on my path to give some clarity. I did not want a D when BD happened. Heck, I came here instead of rushing to a lawyer because I wanted to save my M. What I have learned through my BD journey is what I need from a partner, and what I settled for in my M. What I need from a partner is not something W can give me - it is just not who she is. When BD happened, i wanted to take a route of working through the muck to build a solid foundation and maybe save the M. Unfortunately, she didn't want to. There's nothing you can do about that. It would take a while for W to address her issues, and I would've held her hand to support her through her journey and she would have done the same for me - that is building something together and being better people for ourselves and each other. She not only didn't change her stance and work on herself, I see that she is emotionally and mentally in a similar place as BD minus the visible anger. One thing that I have learned so vividly throughout all of this is that life is so short. I don't know when my number will be up, and I don't want to waste any of it. W had so many opportunities to change course but didn't. Now I am not willing to spend years trying to repair something that may never be able to get fixed because what I want from a partner is fundamentally different from W. i don't want to live a life of acceptance, when I know that I can live a life of fulfillment and joy. So, that requires the D process to happen so I can mentally close this chapter and continue living my life and being the best me.
J dawg Yeh man I totally feel you. I wish I was stronger and would've brought up the issues years back instead of shutting down and just accepting life the way it was. As much as I see my faults, I have also learned to be compassionate to my old self. I was given a $hit hand by life and the barrage of turds never stopped coming. I was, and still am, resilient and survived through all of it, but not intact and strong. I got beat down and accepted that it was okay to get up and sit in the corner rather than get up and fight the next round. I am not that person anymore and I am better for that. My kids are doing well and my relationship with them has never been stronger. We will see the long term effects of this, but I am going to do everything I can to help them be well adjusted individuals with a support system.
Steve Thanks man! Appreciate the kind words and yes life is onwards upwards and full of joy, laughter, and love.
Blu Thanks for the positive reminder and reinforcement. I know I am here because of me. This community has been an incredible support system, but you can take all the sage wisdom from people and never apply it, and so never actually get yourself out of the muck. I know that when I rest my head, it is me and my mind and that I have to put in the work. No one else is going to do it for me. I was always somewhat proud of my resilience, but now I know that not only am I resilient, I can go up against the hurt and pain and come out improved rather than shutting down. I do pop by 'surviving the D' section often and I will get over there once I am done with the D. They do have a lot more fun
Kiro Good luck in your journey!
Davide Man, you are too kind and generous. I am heartened to know that my journey has been insightful and useful to you. Yeh, i have been a bit apprehensive about the dating world, but my confidence has been building for a while and I feel so completely ready to get out there and date. So, 2019 will be an interesting year. I can't wait to get back on the wall soon, hopefully 4-6 weeks. The injury made me slow down and I see it as a blessing because I was able to go deeper in my inward journey and heal my emotional scars. Best of luck in your path as well. Even if I don't comment often, I am reading your journey and it's wonderful to see where you're at. You've been putting in the work too and it shows.
AS I just don't have any words to tell you how instrumental you've been in my path of rediscovery. There may be one day when my W will want something again with me, but like you said, my cup is completely empty for her outside of her being a mother to my children. Yes, patience in the dating world will be a good place to test my new found skills. Always appreciate you stopping by, even if it's a 2x4.
Nicole Yeh, it's definitely a relief because i know that I am not hanging to a nostalgic view of my past and the M. I really see it for what it was and even though there was a lot of beauty to it, it wasn't what it could've been. I have taken my accountability of how I contributed to that and worked through my problems. I kept the door open, explicitly for W, but she never came. So, I am good with my decision because I know that I tried and stood strong. Once you stop looking at the past through colored glasses, the motivation to still stand became unreasonable to me because I was now not respecting and loving myself. I know the D sounds rough, but I am doing it out of pure love for myself because I know that only by doing that will I be a better person for myself and my kids. I have completely let go of W and any expectations from her. I want her to go on her own path and find her truths and do something with them. I just can't be the person that unpacks that with her. I do wish her the best and hope she finds what she's looking for. Releasing the other person from your expectations and accepting that they have their path to follow is truly liberating.
Nef Mad love and hugs to you too bro. Espero que todo bien contigo y disfrutando esa vida que es maraviollasa.
For all the LBS who got BD'd in 2018 and looking towards the horizon at 2019 and how they will be charging forward, let me offer some words of perspective.
I remember Dec 2017, six months post BD, looking towards 2018 and vowing to make transformations and make 2018 a momentous year for me. I have to say upon reflection, that life decided to kick me hard in the arse to make sure that I was not making surface level changes, but going deeper and doing the hard internal work. All my physical health goals didn't come to fruition due to injuries I sustained in early summer, but that allowed me to take the time to really work hard at understanding myself and open my focus.
I am a helluva better parent, co-worker, and person because of it. So, make your plans for 2019, but create the space for flexibility that not all things will go to plan and be adaptable and flexible, and keep your mindset right.
All the best to everyone! I know people are hurting and I was too a year ago. But against all of that, I have come out to the other side stronger, more grounded, self-aware, and understanding myself at a level I have never before. It will happen for you too - just put in the work and be kind and compassionate towards yourself.
I also want to express my immense gratitude to this community. I wouldn't have made it down this road without all of you. Thank you!
Here's to 2019 - may it be a year of personal reclamation, joy, useful pain to propel growth, emotional fitness, and clarity.
Maika you have been such great support to so many of us here. Like you say the year of BD and time following that is something most of us will never forget as long as we live. Most of our spouses cut and ran instead of standing up for family and values. At least our burden is not as great as theirs to carry. What happens to you maybe fate but what we make of it is our destiny. You can proudly say you have truly changed for the better, stood your grounds and behaved based on your value system and are a great father for your kids. Lots of love to you and the kids, happy holidays and merry Christmas
Thanks Sia! There are of course exceptions, but I agree with you that most of our spouses took the easy way out. It's easier to cut and run. Yes, our burdens are going to be different than theirs and we should own them and move forward. We are not innocent victims in this process and even though this reality is not deserved by the LBS, our contributions to the breakdown need to be understood so that we can become fuller human beings.
I have sought help from so many places and adopted mentors to assist me, including this community.
You have also come a long way and take solace in the fact that it is just going to get better from here. After getting through the immediate effects of BD, everything is an upswing.
Love and hugs to you and your kids. Hope you have a happy holiday season and get some time to rest and have peace of mind.
Your point about our contributions to the breakdown being understood is really important because it's easy to sound and feel like we were abandoned and our spouses were these horrible crazy people but in many cases there were real problems that led to a breakdown. The thing is that those problems could have been fixed if your spouse wanted to work on them with you. Simply packing up and leaving isn't ever the right thing to do unless there's a safety issue. But it's good for us all to see what we did wrong since we'll hopefully have a second chance with someone new someday and we don't want to make the same mistake.
Yes, I completely agree with you that the problems could have been addressed within the partnership. The thing that gets me the most, aside from this co-parent business, is that if that opportunity had been taken, the new relationship could've been way stronger and built on a much solid foundation. Alas, most of us don't get that opportunity in the moment.
I think that packing up and leaving, outside of circumstances of abuse, is the cowardly way out. I know I am making a judgment call there, but I truly feel that what you decide to do when things are going down the drain speaks to your character. In my case I also feel that W did abandon me - no prior notice, no nothing, and then one day BOOM - BD out of nowhere. But I know that the abandonment is 100% about them and not about you. Unfortunately, in my life I've had to face this a number of times from very close family and it was never about me.
The main reason about looking at ourselves is to truly understand who you are as a person. Most relationships, both parties caused the breakdown, even if one person decided to pull the plug abruptly. And if we look at ourselves with brutal honesty and self assess without judging ourselves, then we can chart a new future for ourselves with or without our partners. If I have learned anything from this board and life, it is that.
When people ask here about 'successful' reconciliations (where the relationship was restored and in piecing), the most common and obvious pattern is that the LBS did the following things - took accountability for their shortcomings, engaged in personal growth in professional and personal lives, walked the path of detachment and letting go, reduced contact and demolished any expectations, improved their emotional fitness, and got a life. It is about a complete mindset transformation and then following through with action.
So, that's what needs to happen. Because the outcome will always be you becoming a full human being and reclaiming your life - it's story and future trajectory. It creates empowerment and peace. I have never been at more peace in my life than I am now, and that is no small feat. For the first time in my adult life, I am excited about what my life is going to bring me. I don't recall being like this since I was a kid - full of hope.
This is completely achievable and not only that, it is a way better place to be.
When people ask here about 'successful' reconciliations (where the relationship was restored and in piecing), the most common and obvious pattern is that the LBS did the following things - took accountability for their shortcomings, engaged in personal growth in professional and personal lives, walked the path of detachment and letting go, reduced contact and demolished any expectations, improved their emotional fitness, and got a life. It is about a complete mindset transformation and then following through with action.
So, that's what needs to happen. Because the outcome will always be you becoming a full human being and reclaiming your life - it's story and future trajectory. It creates empowerment and peace. I have never been at more peace in my life than I am now, and that is no small feat. For the first time in my adult life, I am excited about what my life is going to bring me. I don't recall being like this since I was a kid - full of hope.
This is completely achievable and not only that, it is a way better place to be.
This is absolutely great stuff, Maika. Thank you for sharing your story and sticking around to help the rest of us. It is incredibly exciting to see you at the precipice of a new life, ready to dive headlong into whatever life may have in store for you.
May the new year bring many blessings!
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Not having the best start to the day today. Just thought I'd come and journal here for a bit.
Recap: I initiated the separation agreement process and it's been going on. Waiting on documents from exW so that the lawyers can move it along.
This morning, received a long message from exW and she mentioned the D word and how we can move it along without the lawyers and jointly file an uncontested D. Just took my breath away really.
I started the separation agreement process leading towards getting the D done and intellectually worked through it all, but it's taken an emotional hit that I wasn't really expecting. I figured it would sting, but I am just in a bit of an emotional funk right now. I haven't responded back to her yet, but I don't have any objections to her suggestion.
I'm just feeling like a total failure right now - in life and marriage. I just never imagined that I'd be here in my relationship, life, and career - all of it not in an optimal place. I also don't have any family nearby; the closest being a 5 hour flight. Just feeling so alone and lost and without any back-up right now.
Just want to drown my emotions in a bottle right now, but I know it's not going to lead to anything good.
I know intellectually that I am working to turn all of this around - finances, career, my health, social network etc, but it's hard not to feel like I don't have any of my $hit together. Her bringing it up also has flooded me with thoughts of how she's just moved on and probably has someone already and didn't even give me a shred of a chance to make this work. It just really feels awful right now.
Unfortunately, I haven't built up enough calluses on my mind and heart to withstand this as of now. I know I am going to be okay and I have made a ton of progress, but just doesn't feel like that right now. It's a bit gloomy right now.
I'm also feeling a bit angry about all of this. I've just taken so many hits in my life and I just want to give up and stop trying to improve anything and accept that everything is going to suck and I might as well ride this life out until it ends. I am just so tired of being strong - I've had to do that for all my life for everyone else. Where is my cushion that I can fall into and be caught by someone else to take care of me and fold me in with their love? Ahhh!
I know that I am going to get through this. I always do. I am just cut up and raw today.
Sorry to hear about your bad day. It really is like riding the waves, isn't it?
One day I am fine, hoping and believing there might be a chance to reconcile.
Next day I am fine, still full of hope and believing I will move on happily, regardless of outcome...accepting that even after D, a joyful life is possible still.
Then, boom! A bad day of grief, missing the M, and thinking D will be the end of the world.
Nothing to do, is there, other than riding the waves with grace and dignity and a stronger sense of self?
Paco - yeah, I feel you on that for sure. For me, the good days have outnumbered the bad days by a long shot in the last 6 months and so the waves have generally been fairly calm. This just feels like a massive wave came out of nowhere.
Grace, dignity, and a stronger sense of self - absolutely yes. I don't think I will achieve that today and I am going to let myself feel it all instead of running away from it like my instincts are telling me to do.
I am hoping I can find a reservoir of strength from some place today and let it wash over me. A place where there is some love that I can tap into.
I am sorry M.......I can tell you from my experience that every step gets a little easier. When my x told me she wanted to move forward with D I felt the same way. I took another mental hit when she told me she was dating. It happened again when she told me about her BF and yet again when he met my girls. When our D was finalized I stood in front of the judge and cried. I can tell you though that was the last time and every step since then has got a little easier. I have felt gloomy days as well and have my share of times being in a funk. I just keep telling myself that something good has to come of this and it will present itself when the time is right.
Not that any of this helps just know that what you are feeling is completely normal and your time will come. Just be compassionate towards yourself.
Thanks for the perspective J. I just need this to be over with as it feels like I am still hanging by a thread to the past. Even though I have made great strides in detachment, I know getting past the steps of separation and divorce will allow me to unlock other levels of detachment.
I appreciate your words man. Self-compassion is what I am exercising right now. The old me would be beating myself up for the 'failures', but I know that I took serious account of my flaws and life circumstances and did the best I could do with the hand I was dealt. I could've done better, but I can't change the past.
I am embracing the gloominess of today, but I am already feeling better as I have been aware of my emotions and I am feeling them rather than dismissing or burying them. I know I have work to do for my life and I have some sense of control over it.
I just want to be done with this and bring a finality to all of it. I know I need that to just release everything and move ahead with life.
If it’s any consequence your detachment will increase 10 fold once your D is done. I think it’s very common to still be some what attached to the past while in limbo. Just mentally prepare yourself for when your kids meet her BF. That was a fuching kick in the nuts.
This morning, received a long message from exW and she mentioned the D word and how we can move it along without the lawyers and jointly file an uncontested D. Just took my breath away really.
I started the separation agreement process leading towards getting the D done and intellectually worked through it all, but it's taken an emotional hit that I wasn't really expecting. I figured it would sting, but I am just in a bit of an emotional funk right now. I haven't responded back to her yet, but I don't have any objections to her suggestion.
So do you think on some level you were pushing the S through hoping it would wake her up and snap her out of it? I think a lot of us threaten or actually pursue S or D and convince ourselves we're doing it for the right reasons but deep inside we're hoping it will bring them out of the fog. But it never does, it's really just giving them what they want.
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I'm just feeling like a total failure right now - in life and marriage. I just never imagined that I'd be here in my relationship, life, and career - all of it not in an optimal place.
I'm sorry you're feeling down on yourself! You're a great person with a bright future, but I know it doesn't feel that way to you right now.
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Her bringing it up also has flooded me with thoughts of how she's just moved on and probably has someone already and didn't even give me a shred of a chance to make this work. It just really feels awful right now.
Well, you know from your time here that that is just a reflection of how she feels right now. It could change in a week or month or year, the future is unknown. So there's no reason to give up hope unless you choose to.
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I've just taken so many hits in my life and I just want to give up and stop trying to improve anything and accept that everything is going to suck and I might as well ride this life out until it ends.
Boy do I remember those feelings of just being the world's punching bag! One of the things I learned is my enjoyment of life is not dependent upon being king of the world, or owning a snazzy car, or having a bigger house, or a trophy wife or whatever. I've been very successful in my career and made good money but do you know what some of my happiest moments in life have been? Very simple things. Camping out with friends. Hiking with my kids. Playing pool and sharing a pitcher of beer with a couple of buddies. Sculpting in clay. Sleeping in cuddled with my dog on a Saturday. We make life too complicated, it doesn't have to be. So to hell with your wife, give her a D if that's what she wants. Screw trying to be super successful at work, when you are on your deathbed do you think you'll have ANY regrets that you didn't spend more time at the office or make it farther in your career? If you want to improve something then improve Maika's love of life. Because in the end that's all that matters. Go out and have fun and let the rest fall where it may.
It will just remember it is much easier for a women to find a man in the dating world than it is for a man. It doesn’t mean she has found the right man or a good man but there are no shortages of men looking for sex. Over time your mindset will shift towards hoping that whoever it is that person will be a good role model and positive influence.
It´s ok to feel what you are feeling M. And you know you are not a failure. You have done your long inner voyage. Have some rest now my dear friend, tomorrow will be another day, a better one. And much better will be the next one...
All my love to you and your kids
(((M)))
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
It will just remember it is much easier for a women to find a man in the dating world than it is for a man.
This is an inaccurate statement J. I think you are projecting.
If you are talking about hookups then you are correct. If you are talking about relationships with quality people it is way easier for a man to find a quality woman. A. There are more women available in the dating world, B. Men can typically date all ages where woman are generally required to date at age or older and C. in general there are just more QUALITY women.
I think it is the unexpected waves that smash into us from behind that can hurt us the worst. You know what to do, you know how to save yourself from drowning in them, you know that you are strong and more than capable of getting back up onto your feet. You know all of that from the long journey that you have taken over the last two years.
Find your blessings, find what you do have in your life, what you are grateful for. And then get out and act. Get out of your head and GAL. Turn to those things that feed your body, mind, and soul whether it be friends, or sports, or seeing a great movie. You know the script at this point.
Just ride out this wave of negativity and you know the emotions will subside. You got this!
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Self-compassion is what I am exercising right now. The old me would be beating myself up for the 'failures', but I know that I took serious account of my flaws and life circumstances and did the best I could do with the hand I was dealt. I could've done better, but I can't change the past.
Self-compassion is my biggest goal right now. I so understand the thoughts and feelings you have posted M. I have spent too much time since this started walking down the tunnel of "if only" as I know that there are things my H and I could have done early on to change this outcome if I had only known what he was really going through as opposed to what I thought he was going through. But I didn't so I just did the best I could with the information that I had. Regardless, I was always 100% committed to our marriage, 100% honest and 100% loyal. So, looking back, I have to be okay with the idea that what seemed like the right thing was possibly the wrong thing. And I say "possibly" because it is very possible that even if I had known the truth, we might still have ended up in this place. I like to think we wouldn't have but then again, I will never know. So I have to forgive myself and let it go. I am getting there and you are too. (((HUGS)))
Originally Posted by Joseph9
It will just remember it is much easier for a women to find a man in the dating world than it is for a man. It doesn’t mean she has found the right man or a good man but there are no shortages of men looking for sex.
Really? I always thought it was the other way around. Not the men looking for sex part but the finding a man to date part. I had always thought that because of sheer numbers, it would be much easier for a man to find another woman than vice versa.
As you know my situation and circumstances are similar to yours. We're all human and we need human connections to survive and thrive. I don't know where I'd be without my best friend who is a man even though he lives far away. Do you have any female friends that you trust? Even a female colleague or old friend from school? It's good to know you can make it on your own. It helps you to feel strong and resilient. But sometimes you need to be able to feel weak too, and grieve, and have closeness to someone that you trust. A caring female friend would be a nice cushion for you at this time. Someone to hold your hand and listen. Maybe cook your favorite meal and have a long all-night conversation. If that's not possible you can look forward to dating in the near future and to finding a woman who will love and cherish you all over again. You're much closer now than you were before. It's just hard because we're in such a transitional state right now. I relate to so much of what you're saying. I'll write more later!
Thanks for all the positive vibes folks. I definitely needed it.
AS I didn't pursue the S and D to snap her out and use it as a tactic. I thought I was intellectually and emotionally ready for it. Intellectually I know it's the right move for me, but emotionally, I didn't expect to have a reaction like this. I have played this scenario many times in my head, but it didn't prepare me for when it actually happened today. My whole life flashed before my eyes and all I could was failure, rejection, and struggle. My whole life just felt like I've wasted it. I am feeling better now but it's just adding up so many losses, so many bad decisions, and not being present and self-aware to take life by the reins. You're totally right about increasing love for life and looking at moments that will bring me immense joy, and none of that has to do with my career or my house or material possessions. Thanks for being in my corner as always.
Nef Thanks for the kind words man. Tomorrow will be better yes. Much love as well.
Davide Totally appreciate your words and perspective. You're right - I know I have the tools and wherewithal to not drown and actually find a way to surf the wave. I am actually proud of letting myself feel those intense emotions and coming out the other end rather than running away. I haven't felt this intensely about my sitch since March last year and I at least know that my growth is real.
DV Yeah, self-compassion is so important. I couldn't believe how I used to talk to myself. I wouldn't do that to anyone. The 'if only' game is such a dead end, you're right. Even with all of that, you could've ended up here. There's just so much of my past that I have to completely let go and exercise that forgiveness. Thanks for chiming in.
Nicole Yeh, I did chat with a close female friend of mine. Normally I'd just bottle it all up, but it was good to talk to her. I am planning on having a great evening with my kids and just being in the circle of love with them. This transitional state is just paperwork for me at the moment and I just want to get it done so it feels like there's a sense of finality to it.
I am doing much better now and looking forward to taking it easy this evening. The clouds are slowly scattering and I didn't allow myself to wallow in self-pity and loathing. I went about my day and got my work done and I feel better after letting the emotions have their day. Thanks everyone for giving me perspective and being there for me. I have overcome so many odds in life and I know I am not a failure. Just need to water the garden of self-confidence, value, and love.
Just read a beautiful quote - "forgiveness means giving up hope for a better past". I think this is probably the crux of my struggle. My past is just so riddled with different traumatic events that it has had power over me. This is what I need to let go.
After getting hit by a massive wave, I thought I'd come back and post a quick update.
So, once I got past the emotional downturn, I took a magnifying glass to see why I was so thrown off course for the day. exW's message included the 'D' word, but it was also full of classic emotional manipulation and that combination hit me hard. She got to my insecurities - don't know if she intended to, but it did anyway. The hit to my insecurities sparked where my failures were in the past and my whole life flashed before me with selectively choosing all the bad memories and what I consider to be my previous weaknesses. All of that made me feel really small as a person and whether I was redeemable or not.
I think her message also got to me as it was a demonstrated rejection from her all over again. Abandonment and rejection have been two of the biggest issues I have had to deal with in my life and so she got me right in the sweet spot. I recognize I still have work to do in building my self-value and personal worth.
However, getting past all of that made me realize that I have a lot more growth to go through. And that moment did catalyze massive growth as I was able to get past that hump with a new found understanding of my emotional health and also a recognition that I have made massive strides in my emotional recovery as I didn't beat myself up for days on end and have a 'woe is me' attitude.
I took 24 hours before I responded back to her. And I did that in the most calm and rational way over email and surprisingly her response was measured and not full of vitriol and more emotional manipulation. I have seen glimpses of that from her after the separation and I don't know if my measured response enabled her to do the same.
Anyways, I am back on solid land and grounded. The S and D processes are moving and hopefully should get wrapped by March at the latest. I am just waiting on paperwork from her and once we have that, it should move quickly.
Thanks everyone as usual for being in my corner. I am feeling more unusually calm and centered now.
Just read a beautiful quote - "forgiveness means giving up hope for a better past". I think this is probably the crux of my struggle. My past is just so riddled with different traumatic events that it has had power over me. This is what I need to let go.
Oh my gosh Maika this is such a great quote. Thank you for sharing.
It's amazing how we can grow and then realize how we need to grow even more. It's like the drill sergeant that tells you to do ten more push-ups right when you get to the last one. I guess we'll all keep learning, improving, evolving, and changing for as long as we live but it does feel unsettling during this stage in life when we expected to be enjoying our tine with our spouses and kids, reaping the rewards of having worked hard in our 20's and early 30's, and living a relatively stable life. I was asking you on my thread if you found a different religious path when you left the one you were on? Or if you're just self-guided now? I'm just curious. It seems either way you've been on a path towards transcendence. You sound like a wise person. I feel like many women will be interested in you when you're ready to meet someone new. It doesn't seem like you did anything wrong in your marriage aside from having the usual minor flaws, if any, that we all have. Your wife may be unwilling to recalibrate her thoughts or to see how you have changed but I'm positive your kids will always be proud to have you as their father and everyone who knows you will see your good intentions and the strength you've built from overcoming all these hardships. You seem to be well-balanced and you think rationally. You don't always have to be strong though. We all have times when we struggle but it's nice to see the example you set by sharing what you've learned and realized each time you go through a hardship. I hope things keep getting better and better. The good news is you're still young!
Thanks for popping by. I will check out your latest update. Haven't had a chance to spend time on the forums too much lately. You're right about how much space there is for growth, and I believe it will be a lifelong process of gaining new skills and insights.
About my religious path, I know what my values are and they don't align well with organized religions that we currently have in operation. I did go the atheist route - not the militant kind where I was arguing with people and trying to impose my thinking, but more so for my own personal self.
I am at a place where I don't know what to label myself. But over the last year, I've come to appreciate that there is just so much in this universe that we don't know and I need to exercise some humility. I've had some transcendental experiences that can't be explained away by science and rational thinking. Currently I am at a place where I believe there is something greater out in the universe that can't be explained away neatly and that there is a spiritual or transcendental side to the human experience. There's just no other way I can see it with what I have gone through.
I don't know if we have benevolent alien overlords in another dimension who are marveling at the human world, but I believe there is a greater energy force out there. I would say that I have experienced it and still do when I engage in meditation specifically.
I will never participate in an organized religion because the values don't match up to me and I would rather stay honest and true to my values than compromise. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, but I will have lived my life based on my truth rather than being told what the truth is. I have deeply explored the organized religions and having participated in at least 2 of them, I know that they are not my path to follow.
I am happy with how I have evolved as a parent and look forward to continue that path of growth. I know that I am in a minority of fathers out there who can handle their $hit well. For my marriage, I believe I just let my depression hollow me out and that led to the degradation of the relationship from my end. I am back to myself now and I know that what I have to offer is tremendous and look forward to sharing my life with someone who also meets my needs in a partnership. I am just slightly younger than you so we're not far off.
Things are way better and I feel so much stronger after the latest emotional episode. It's like I have unlocked the next level in the detachment game.
I'll check out your update soon. Hope you and your daughter are doing well.
However, getting past all of that made me realize that I have a lot more growth to go through. And that moment did catalyze massive growth as I was able to get past that hump with a new found understanding of my emotional health and also a recognition that I have made massive strides in my emotional recovery as I didn't beat myself up for days on end and have a 'woe is me' attitude.
I think this is the key. Recognize the growth that you have made (and important part of self-compassion), while remaining aware that there is always room for further growth. You are clearly well along the path, but it never ends.
Stay strong!
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
M - I think we all need something or someone to believe in. Whatever that means to the individual then more power to you!
You know my best friend was going through marital issues the same time as us. His wife ended up staying and he openly admits how lucky he is. He was in the same boat, got the same reasons from her that we all essentially got however she chose to stay, fight though it, and now (according to him) they are better than ever.
After he got his wake up call he dove deep into all the self-help books that we have has well. The difference between him and us was his wife and her desire to not break up their family and kids (which are the same age as ours). She was done, done, and more done. She had moved out and was living with her mom. He has a great job, lives in a million dollar house, in shape, outwardly has many things going for him that we would all be envious of but he was in the same boat as us with a W who wanted nothing to do with him, she was repulsed.
My point is that this is more of a reflection of your W and really less to do about you. Everyone in a relationship has their problems it's just some choose to stay and work through the issues while others choose to bail. I asked her why she chose to stay and she said the thought of rebuilding her life from scratch with a new man who doesn't know her desires, wants, and needs seemed exhausting to her. She also said she couldn't do it to her kids either and she realized there were no guarantees with any other man either. She also said while on a flight she had a random encounter with a pastor/priest that helped her work through what she was experiencing.
My best friend is no different than anyone of us.........he just got lucky.
J - you're totally right. This is so much of a reflection of who exW is than me. Your buddy by all accounts had all the markers of what we would call 'success' but his W still walked out. Good on her to reflect on her decision that went just beyond her and to other people and look at the larger picture. And that also goes to the point of how you could DB perfectly and they spouse still wouldn't come back - so much of that is on that spouse rather than the LBS.
I'm good with everything and I've let go. I've done much much work on personal growth and I see exW still in the same emotional and mental space during BD. Anger has lessened but she hasn't faced herself, her fears, her shortcomings, and is still a hostage to her insecurities. I can't have her back like that. And if she's seeking a true relationship with real connection, she's gotta work on her $hit. I don't know if she ever will, or if it will be too late for her by that time. A crisis is also an opportunity - I took that as an opportunity and I am better off for it.
Just remember M it is all relative to the women and her expectations. Yes, he had all the markers but his W didn't know anything different. Hell, they both have the same job and essentially have the same salary. To her it wasn't about the money, or their house, or their stuff, or their vacations, etc. it was about how she felt. None of it mattered to her. I have known my best friend since 1st grade, good dude, parents are still married, he is easy going, laid back, never been arrested, great job, jacked, no emotional issues, baggage, etc. but his wife was done.
Now he is has dove in deep on the whole Blue Pill vs Red Pill discussion and he realized that by being so Blue Pill he killed the attraction. Most women don't give a second chance, he was lucky that he got one and he knows it.
Most women only care if you can financially support yourself, emotionally stable, a good father, etc.. You don't have to be a millionaire or make 6 figures to attract beautiful women. Being comfortable and confident around them is 1/2 the battle. You should read the Rational Male it is a really good read.
I don't discredit anyone on this board that got their wives or their husbands to return. IMO though it is more about the person leaving than it is about the LBS and their DBing efforts. Sure it puts you in the best possible position but it still all falls on the person who wanted out.
Yeah I agree that it is all about the person leaving, aside from circumstances of abuse which changes the context. I haven't heard of the Rational Male. I will check it out. I still have to check out the hold ya nuts book too lol.
It really all boils down to attraction and all of us did enough things wrong to kill the attraction in our marriages. Once the spouse leaving gets that mental image and thought in their mind it is almost impossible to turn it around.
Hey Maika (Joseph), good to see you guys still here, updating and moving on with your lives (with children, particularly younger, it can be difficult to detach as encouraged here). I'm curious if you guys and other vets (Sandi, AS, Chris73) feel as though the real contrition and humility that a WW must demonstrate before R also applies to a WAW? Or is that expectation of a WAW not necessary. I can't recall each of your sitches, or even if your exes are with new OM's now (if not right a BD) but my ex was for sure a WAW and although she has had at least one quasi-serious relationship in the 2.5 years since BD (April 2016), didn't work out though, nobody has been introduced to the kids, (they would have said something), which I find odd...that she hasn't yet fully moved on with another serious relationship. She is quite attractive and has a good career but also very busy with work and mother of three children under the age of 10. Meanwhile, she has been hot and cold with me, kinda all over the place really, currently cold for the past couple months (after about 4 or 5 months of daily contact/some family things together) so I'm back to NC for my own well being.
I'm curious if you guys and other vets (Sandi, AS, Chris73) feel as though the real contrition and humility that a WW must demonstrate before R also applies to a WAW?
I will give you my opinion. IMO the only difference between a WAW and a WW are one of two things. Opportunity or values. The bottom line is in both are not happy in their current relationships and perceive that there is something better out there that will make them happy. A strong woman with values will walk away from a perceived unhappy relationship while a weak woman will latch on to another opportunity prior to walking away.
With three young kids your w is going to find it difficult to find the fantasy suitable mate she is looking for regardless of her looks. That's just the reality of it. I read a profile of an attractive girl on a dating site that read "single mom of three young children, now everyone don't line up at once".
At 2.5 years my guess is if your W was going to look back it would be at the 2 year mark. She was probably temp checking you and based on your interactions realized she has more time because she could tell your still waiting on her. Trust me they know.
S - I suppose it could be different but in either case I think the WW or WAW would need to do some work on themselves to be a better partner in the future and to understand why they did what they did. The work might be different but work would still need to be done.
My X runs hot and cold as well. I just don't engage unless it has something to do with the kids.
I'm curious if you guys and other vets (Sandi, AS, Chris73) feel as though the real contrition and humility that a WW must demonstrate before R also applies to a WAW?
That's a very interesting question. I would say it largely depends on what the situation was in the WAW leaving. Sometimes (often?) the WAW's have perfectly reasonable reasons for leaving. I take issue with the WAY that they usually leave, which seemingly comes out of nowhere and with no notice. But they usually felt very abandoned and lonely leading up to BD because of the way they were treated in the M. So what we preach here is doing 180's on our problems and work on ourselves to make ourselves attractive to them again, and to try and build a new R with them rather than go back to the old one. So if they are attracted back it's not because they realized the error of their ways, it's because they fall in love again with H2.0. So I would say that yes there should hopefully be an apology in there somewhere, maybe not for leaving but for the way they left. But not the same level of repentance that a WW would owe her H.
My ex also runs hot and cold and I've largely just ignored it. I am pretty much NC aside from the kids. We have had some more communications recently to sort out the S and D legal processes. About the WAW question, I agree with what LH, J, and AS have said. Even if there were legitimate reasons of not being valued in the MR etc for the WAW leaving, they also contributed to that dynamic in some way. It is not the LBS's fault 100%. So, I would need to see the WAW take accountability of what they did to bring the MR to where it degraded, and also remorse and contrition about the way they went about it - BD and that abrupt severing of the relationship. There were other options that could've been pursued but were never entertained.
My prime thing is that both sides need to take accountability. With a WW, there's more to the story for sure. But without that accountability and humility, there's nothing to entertain.
LH, Joseph, AS and Maika -- thanks for your thoughts, all good advice...unlike me, you guys have this all figured out it would seem. I think the vacillation we see is best ignored and if indeed it's just periodic temperature checking, the running cold that follows is probably because the hot doesn't elicit the reaction they perhaps wanted to unequivocally confirm "still available", if that makes sense (I'm careful not to engage in anything that resembles relationship talk or pursuit through compliments or otherwise). I still remember Maika's "test" at the 6 month mark and how he vowed never again because he didn't like how it left him feeling when W said she still felt the same way. That was a good cautionary tale, no need to give them that satisfaction without something from them that leaves no doubt how they will respond.
I do believe that although the expected contrition and humility may not be the same for the WAW, they all make it obvious if and when they want to R and anything short of that is temperature checking (for reasons that are known only to them, no good comes from trying to mind read). And again, when they don't get the reaction they expected or perhaps wanted, i.e. attention, they get kinda pouty.
And LH, yes, working on the wrong side of 40 with two or three young children makes for a shallow dating pool...and not just for women, although I expect it's harder for them in part because a lot of men will pretend to be interested in order to get some...shoplifting the pootie, lol (Jerry Maguire).
S.....I would continue to do your thing. Early on I was told that if my Xw wants to recon she will make it very clear and there will be no questions. Hang in there!
Also.....I don’t know if I have it all figured out but what I discovered through this process is my own value and self worth. My best friend and I talk every day through text about various topics about being a man that helps me stay on course. In many ways he had become my Miagi, my guru, my therapist. For me having him in my circle as another man I can confide in has been invaluable.
Yeah I think that the contrition and remorse from a WAW looks different than a WW, but I believe that they will make it clear if they want to recon. If they want you to mind read, drop small hints, etc etc, that is not satisfactory to me. I want proper communication and transparency - I do not want to play a guessing game or mind reading cheeseless tunnels. It's just not worth my time. This is my stance - if they were able to be straight up in communications about BD, they can do the same for recon. I won't take anything less as the person I would want to be with can handle conflict and figure out how to approach it in a mature fashion with a level of directness.
The hot and cold can be many things. It could be small temp checks and then withdrawal, or their mood, or feeling angry, guilty etc etc. There's just no way to determine the reason without directly asking, which is a waste of time. So, that's why it's best to let it slide off your back and continue your thing. I think your NC strategy sounds on point.
Have you dated? Are you thinking of dating? The thing I am wondering is if you're still hanging on to the MR by a small thread. It's been quite some time now. I hope you're truly moving on and creating a new life for yourself that doesn't have her in any measure.
btw J - I am really glad to hear about your friendship. I am sorely missing that right now. Some good male friendships with other men who are also in a growth mindset and engaged in personal growth. I just don't know anyone around here for that. I tried joining a dad's club in town and it was full of men, probably unhappily married and don't know, who were just chugging along in their lives. No sign of any men who knew how to handle their $hit. It [censored]. I think we would be good friends outside of here. Well, maybe we can find a way to connect outside of here at some point.
Yeah M I am extremely lucky that both of us are on the same journey. We have known each other since the 1st grade so it is very easy for us.
I have also played basketball with the same group of guys for around 15 years and we sit around and chat about stuff after we are done playing. One guy is a local judge in town, the other is doctor, one guy went through a D and online dating so he gives me advice as well (he also just got engaged). We have a group text list that we joke and kid around with each other when we are not playing and every now and then will meet up for drinks. Maybe once a quarter.
Since you enjoy rock climbing maybe there are local groups in town or through the gym that you could join? Maybe if you go at the same time every day the same guys will be there? When I started playing basketball with these guys it all happened because I went to the gym at 5 am one morning and I saw a group of guys playing. I walked into the gym, one of them came over and asked me if I played, I told him I did and the rest is history. You do have to put yourself out there a bit but I found that it was easy because it was something I enjoyed doing and I was interested in.
Even at the gym when I am lifting I see the same guys so in between sets I will make small talk etc. One guy his daughter was on my oldests soccer team so there is a connection, another guy has a daughter that goes to the same school as mine so that helped as well. Those guys also have friends at the gym so then they introduce you to them and it just kind of happens.
It does require you to open up though once you get comfortable. I did not know my best friend was going through marital issues and I have known him for over 35 years. I opened up to him about mine first and then it just took off from there. You would probably be shocked at the number of guys that are impacted but you know us males we don't like to talk about our feelings a lot. My point is that if you meet some people and open up you might be shocked at what you find and what friendships you could form. Just no that you might have to be the one to open up first.
Men need other men to be around and discuss men stuff with.
You're absolutely right.. I kinda started that at the climbing gym last year, but with me being injured and unable to go back yet, those friendships kinda died out. They were just beginning and so I need to put myself out there more when I get back. Hopefully next month
I know there are probably tons of guys who are going through these issues but don't talk about it. Once you open up, I am sure the stories start filtering. Thanks for the reminder to open up and I know that will create opportunities for friendships. Men do need other men to talk stuff with.
Hey guys! It´s summer here so it´s hard to get to the forum daily. I´m sorry. Lot of pressure at work.
Don´t get too much into generalization. A couple is a group of two...both partners should be accounted for MR failures. Even when abuse occurs but this is another topic.
Agree with all.
Originally Posted by LH19
I will give you my opinion. IMO the only difference between a WAW and a WW are one of two things. Opportunity or values. The bottom line is in both are not happy in their current relationships and perceive that there is something better out there that will make them happy.
^^^^ Yesssss
I will add some items...unclosed childhood related topics, MLCs, predator people, financial struggles, there´s a lot to add.
Originally Posted by Maika
My prime thing is that both sides need to take accountability. With a WW, there's more to the story for sure. But without that accountability and humility, there's nothing to entertain.
Add some respect and honesty too.
Lot of hugs for you and the kids M!!!!!!
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
You on point Nef - respect, honesty, accountability, humility.... stir that all together in a pot and now we're cooking. hugs and love to you too. hope life is sunny
LH, Joseph, AS and Maika -- thanks for your thoughts, all good advice...unlike me, you guys have this all figured out it would seem. I think the vacillation we see is best ignored and if indeed it's just periodic temperature checking, the running cold that follows is probably because the hot doesn't elicit the reaction they perhaps wanted to unequivocally confirm "still available", if that makes sense (I'm careful not to engage in anything that resembles relationship talk or pursuit through compliments or otherwise). I still remember Maika's "test" at the 6 month mark and how he vowed never again because he didn't like how it left him feeling when W said she still felt the same way. That was a good cautionary tale, no need to give them that satisfaction without something from them that leaves no doubt how they will respond.
I do believe that although the expected contrition and humility may not be the same for the WAW, they all make it obvious if and when they want to R and anything short of that is temperature checking (for reasons that are known only to them, no good comes from trying to mind read). And again, when they don't get the reaction they expected or perhaps wanted, i.e. attention, they get kinda pouty.
And LH, yes, working on the wrong side of 40 with two or three young children makes for a shallow dating pool...and not just for women, although I expect it's harder for them in part because a lot of men will pretend to be interested in order to get some...shoplifting the pootie, lol (Jerry Maguire).
Dont think of yourself on the wrong side of 40. I am 38. One of my goals has been met and that was to get from 265lbs to 185lbs. Im actually at 177lbs now. The dating pool grows exponentially when you are a healthy and fit older man. For example, I met a very nice 25 year old woman who I enjoy talking to.
She is also drop dead gorgeous and has a degree so she can hold an intelligent conversation with me for more than a few minutes. If/when you are at the point where you are moving on completely and looking for a woman, you will have zero issues finding one. I also have three kids. I get propositioned for dates almost daily now at work which is very new to me. But I sure as hell enjoy the attention!
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Dont think of yourself on the wrong side of 40. I am 38. One of my goals has been met and that was to get from 265lbs to 185lbs. Im actually at 177lbs now. The dating pool grows exponentially when you are a healthy and fit older man. For example, I met a very nice 25 year old woman who I enjoy talking to.
Congrats on getting fit, nice work!
Totally agree on the dating prospects. Men can date their age or younger or much younger. Young women tend to see older men as mature, mysterious and sophisticated even if they are not Brad Pitt. Some young men feel that way about older women, but it's more the exception rather than the rule whereas it is very common for young women to think that way about older men. Most here know my GF is half my age, I can tell you that age is not the roadblock you might think it would be. We get along great and have a lot of common interests, many more than I did with my ex in fact. We've been dating for years and neither of us even thinks about the age gap anymore. Sometimes when we're out we'll get some lingering looks, it's usually then that I'm reminded that we're an "unconventional" couple Of course she always has crazy colors in her hair and we both have a lot of ink so that might have something to do with it too.
Anyway ST is spot on that men have a ton of dating prospects out there. If you are kind, considerate, hold doors open for your date, open the car door for her, pick up the tab without saying a word, dress nicely and don't live for the next release of Call of Duty then you'll have your pick of younger women if you so choose.
(Sorry to continue the hijacking of your thread, Maika)
I definitely agree that there seem to be more dating prospects out there for men over 40 than women in the same age range, especially for men who are reasonably intelligent, reasonably fit, and considerate. However, I don't know about such wide age gaps - dating people a decade or two younger than you? It just seems to me that those women are at such a different part of their lives. I am sure that this is colored by the fact that my W was 8 years younger than me, and that she definitely felt like she missed out on a large part of her independent, young-adult life. She moved out of her parents' home and directly into an apartment with me and was married by age 25 while most of her friends remained (or still remain) single for many more years. That clearly played a part in her unhappiness in the MR and her ultimate decision to leave it.
I am sure there are exceptions but I think the huge difference in life experiences makes it hard for me to connect with anyone a decade younger. Sure there is some mystery or aura in being the older, more experience man, but that fades quickly once you establish a level of intimacy.
I am (eventually) looking for someone I can settle down with and start a family with, and that pool is not nearly as deep, especially when looking among women within a decade of my own age. The vast majority who are available are already divorced with kids (and generally don't want any more) or have no desire to start a family (otherwise they would have already.) Of course, I live in a smaller sized city with some pretty conservative values, and I'm sure in a more cosmopolitan place it would be easier since there is much more of a culture of remaining single longer.
W 34 Me 42 Married 7 years together 8 0 kids 1 beloved dog BD 4/6/2018 I moved out 4/7/2018 I moved back in alone 8/05/2018 I file 3/06/2019 D official 5/7/2019
Please start a new thread and link the two threads together. Thanks!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Of course she always has crazy colors in her hair and we both have a lot of ink so that might have something to do with it too.