Unsure what's next, what to do.....

[AnotherStander]

Obviously in the meantime, I've expressed that now that I've calmed down after the initial emotional and high anxiety reaction that I believe we can work through this with help from IC, MC, etc.

STOP THAT. Did you read the comments from Steve and LH? They are spot-on. NO R TALKS AT ALL.

She has been essentially unresponsive of her feelings and emotions thus far (as I've posted above) except a week and half ago when she admitted that she still was leaning towards ending things.

Yup and every time you push to talk about it she will just be more resolute that D is the only answer. You've got to pull back and give her time and space.

I'm TRYING not to focus on her continued efforts to get a new job as a sign that this is over but it's very hard

LH said it but I will say it again- this isn't a game of days or weeks. It's many months or even a year or more. She is going to be 100% done for a long, long time. She might change her mind later, but please understand when we all say this is a marathon, we say that because it IS. There's no magic pill that's going to put everything back to normal so please try and quit looking at it like that. She is two feet out the door. You can't reel her back in, you've got to let her go before she might think about coming back. And when I say "let her go" I mean LET HER DECIDE. If she wants to leave then don't stop her, but it's HER choice. Don't kick her out. Same with the bed, she doesn't want to sleep there? That's fine it's her choice. But you sleep there whether she does or not. Don't let her browbeat you into giving up the bed or home or whatever, but don't push her to make choices either. You've got to "open the cage door".

Originally we agreed to share custody 50/50 and basically alternate 2 days with her, 2 days with me, then Fri-Sun with her and vice a versa after that.

My brother had a similar split with his ex and hated it. The kids were constantly on the move and basically living out of backpacks. There was a lot of confusion over when the handoffs were and difficulties coordinating homework and projects. My ex and I did an every other week arrangement. Personally I think it's the way to go. You can do a leisurely handoff each Sunday and discuss upcoming homework and projects during the handoff. I have to travel for work and it's easy to schedule my travel for my off weeks. It's just a lot more convenient, especially if your W moves and isn't nearby. Something to think about.

So my question is, if she ends up sticking to her guns and not wanting to try to work this out, do I let her know that I think the arrangement we sort of pre-agreed to is garbage because of all of the shuffling it is going to do to the kids?

Don't tell her it's garbage, but tell her you'd like to discuss it and then explain to her why you feel like it's going to be very inconvenient for both of you as well as for the kids. If she feels like she can't go a week without seeing them then offer for each of you to have an optional evening anytime during the week to pick up the kids and have dinner with them. This was written into our D agreement although as it turned out we both saw our kids so much at sports events and such on our off weeks that we didn't need it.

#2 maybe if she realizes the effect this will have on the kids and the fact that due to her past actions I've got a pretty good chance at getting full custody, if it comes down to a fight, maybe that will be enough to open her eyes and think twice about being full steam ahead for a D.

Remember what Steve said about pink flamingos? Your W is living in a fantasy land right now where she thinks everything is going to work out perfectly for her. Any attempt you make to "explain" to her how it won't is just going to anger her and make her think you are controlling and manipulative. If she wants 50-50 custody and you go for full then prepare for a long, drawn-out, expensive court battle because I can't imagine she'd ever agree to you having full custody based on your comment that the kids have always come first. And besides, why would you want to deprive your kids of time with their mom? If she's a great mom then they deserve time with her.

I don't want her to come back just for the kids. That sounds miserable for everyone, but if that's enough to give her a nudge in the right direction, I think we can get the help we honestly need to make our relationship grow and end up being better by working with IC, MC and doing a retrouvaille sort of workshop on proper and healthy communications in a marriage.

Am I on to something or on something :-)?!

No you are in denial. I'm sorry, but you really do not have a grasp on what you are up against when dealing with a WAS and you need to learn that or you will keep doing the wrong things. DO NOT TRY TO USE THE KIDS AGAINST HER. Not only will it appear to her as control and manipulation, it IS control and manipulation. Please understand any attempts you make to control her are going to blow up in your face in huge ways. Don't do it. Pull back. Get a life. Give her time and space. Let HER make her choices.

[burned]

I'd like to say this sternly, not because of any expectations, but because I don't want you to go through what I'm going through now:

Do exactly what people here are telling you. They aren't here to mislead people. When you get that awful dying feeling in the pit of your stomach, ignore it. Trust the people here. They have seen the same thing happen over. And over. And over. Your sitch is unique but NOT different.

Want to see what happens when you do it the wrong way? Read my threads. I did the opposite of everything I was supposed to do, for about 4 months. Then I learned about DB, joined the board, and did a bad job of following the advice here, for another month, until I had no other options. It's good to have options. It's not good to be up against a wall. DB gives you options.

Save the big guns for later. MC, IC, workshops, retreats. None of those will work right now. Well, they will work, if what you define as "working" is prolonging your denial and agony.

When they say it's a marathon, they sometimes forget to add that it can be a very long marathon. You don't have control over the outcome but you do have some control over the length of the race.

[Wanted1]

Thanks for all of the input. I said I was approaching her about the R and approaching her with my feelings, etc. before. I haven't done so now since Monday and am not planning on doing it anymore. I am making a conscious effort to avoid falling into the temptations of doing so moving forward.

I am still planning on the joint session we have scheduled for Monday because I do want to know where her head is at so I at least know a little bit more about what I'm dealing with/where her head is at. Like I said, my whole objective in the session will be to validate her feelings.

I don't know if/when she will approach me if she does get a job offer that she wants to accept. At this point, if she does, I'm going to try to do a 180 and not necessarily congratulate her on it but I'm not going to do what she thinks I would do (and what I want to do at this point) which is be negative about it and tell her all the reasons she shouldn't take that big of a step. I guess I will see how the conversation goes and try to respond accordingly without any negative comments or advice.

[Wanted1]

Quick question re: my upcoming joint session with W, her IC, my IC and me....

My plan, as I said, is to let her do all the talking and validate, validate, validate. But my question is, if she throws out something like "It doesn't seem like you have cared for me for quite a while?" I'm going to validate her by saying something like "I understand that you feel that way" but can I go a step further and just simple ask if she could provide me with some examples as to why she feels that way or is that taking it too far?

I honestly would like to know for the sake of me maybe not seeing the forest through the trees....but if asking for examples isn't advised I won't

[SteveLW]

"And just simple ask if she could provide me with some examples as to why she feels that way or is that taking it too far?"

I see nothing wrong with this. Acknowledge the feeling, then ask for clarity on behaviors from you that contribute to that. This will help inform your 180s moving forward.

[equalzr]

Just so im straight on this, your MC(?) session will include both IC's? If so, is this common and are they advocates for their respective clients or working in tandem to help solve issues? Sorry maybe i missed an explanation for this earlier.

[Wanted1]

Thanks, Steve. Those were my exact thoughts but wanted to be sure I wasn’t missing something.

equalzr, it’s just one session with both of our IC present. They informed us if we continue MC then we will be with a totally different therapist. My W had been seeing her IC a couple times before the latest incident for her issues with her childhood and retraumatizing herself with it earlier this year. We both floated the idea to each of our IC and they both agreed to do this. I think it’s more or less for my W to voice her feelings since she hasn’t as of yet to me. My thought was if my IC is present and hears everything she can help me better moving forward than me trying to recollect what took place in a future session. Another positive I hope that comes from it is my IC can maybe ask her some of the tougher questions that might help hearing the answers too without me being the one asking them. My mentality is going to be let her share and I’ll validate and ask for examples if needed and that’s the extent of what I’m going to contribute.

[equalzr]

Makes sense. Ive always felt its good to know both sides of the story. Are you sure yoir ic asking questions is a good idea, its sort of a surrogate asking for you?

[Wanted1]

Makes sense. Ive always felt its good to know both sides of the story. Are you sure yoir ic asking questions is a good idea, its sort of a surrogate asking for you?

Not sure. Guess maybe it depends on what she asks? Hopefully she’s aware enough to either word the questions correctly so they aren’t seemingly intrusive or she just asks generalities to sort of “bring her up to speed” or to get a better understanding of where Ws head is at. I guess I’m at the mercy of whatever takes place. All I can control is what I say and respond with, which will be validating all day long throughout the session.

[marina7]

Wanted1,

Just wow, I was in tears for you.

I can see your trying so hard and I get it, you love your W.

But now I am more about kids, I am an advocate for kids.
Do you know your kids are hurting, and if you think they to young
to understand, they know more than you think.

I see someone ask you paternity test. I bet that a hard pill to swallow but
you can't believe 50% what they say or do. I am sorry you can't

I get it your mind is everywhere your in survivor mode trying to save your M
I am here to be blunt. Your W is gone you must now worry about kids and you.

I said the same thing if W loses kids she would maybe take her life
I started seeing my kids draining, Tired, and hungry coming back
From W being sick. I needed to put my super hero cape on and stop
Protecting W. I realized I am responsible for 3 little people I got my head
out my a** and focus on my kids.

I basically began GAL with kids, W would yell I need them I would just walk away
I realized my kids could not be her crutch.

You must let go. Let your W go that doesn't mean you stop loving her.

Is hard trust me I would have never thought I would be here writing giving advice
I was once Broken, lost, a broken heart a broken soul. But I am still healing
But is not what I was 1yr ago. I still have my days but one day at a time.

Wanted1- 1st paternity test , but if you know you don't need it because
you love them regardless then don't because you might not like the results.
As a mom of 3 adopted to me that means nothing I love then as mine

Get custody of kids, get them in kids therapy
Financial protect yourself. Be fair to W 50 and 50

Gal and kids. Start living life become there superdad don't
Take that cape off not even when W is around.

Get lots of rest eat well laugh more take care of you because
your babies need you more then ever.

I am going give you advice someone once gave to me.

Why would you want to be with someone who broke you once
and have them put you back together and rebrake you.

Also I was told by my kids therapist,

Therapist you love your kids
M of course
Therapist then why you letting them be abused
M wtf, nobody abuse my kids I protect them. How dare you
Therapist you say you do but you let your W mentally abuse them
M crying how dare you say this to me
Therapist Then protect them your there voices stop
making excuses for W. Stop worrying how she will feel
M it hit me like a truck I needed to hear that, my mind shifted
I realized that day my super hero cape never came off even with
there own mom. I treated W like a stranger because she is a stranger
My own kids don't recognize W behavior.

So please let W go, and remember God has something else plan for you
And your family. And if W is part of God plan then he will make it work
on his time. Let God guide you. Let go and give him all your trouble and pain.

Best wishes and will be following. Stay strong and remember

Is ok to be sad
Is ok to be mad
Is ok to cry
Is ok to be confused
Is ok to be angry
Is ok to not be ok
Remember is ok we are humans we all done mistakes