Determined now as I move forward..

[Dtrmned]

Link to old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=61659&Number=2817178#Post2817178

I wanted to update everyone. I am finding that longer periods between updates are helping me greatly to not obsess. This does not mean that I am not still watching the roller coaster in front of me.

First. I want to thank everyone on this forum for EVERYTHING! It has truly been a godsend as some days this was my only outlet and the input was so unselfish in trying to help save my MR but always having me focus on saving myself.

As mentioned before, I am going to continue to DB throughout this but as the days to by I am more and more resigned that my marriage is over. I am discovering things that I never dreamed my wife was capable of and these are things that have been happening for years.

What has happened this past several days:

We are way more distant. W is out looking for places, talking to management companies and trying to get her stuff together. She has told me that she is intent on this and she will let me know when she is moving. I just validated and I did tell her (since I believe this) that I think it is a good idea. It is time for a physical separation. It is the only way that she can experience life without me and also the only way for me to really have some space to allow myself to be myself.
It is difficult to be in a home with someone who loathes your very presence.

She tries to manipulate constantly with being mean, kind, passing guilt, anything that might help what she wants to accomplish at that moment. She is actively on dating sites. I would estimate she has been on 2-3 coffee dates in the last couple of weeks. I call a coffee date when you only have an hour or so before you have to be somewhere (pick up the kids, etc.) It is during the day. And you are a little made up but not "dressed to kill" kind of late night rendezvous thing.

She came to me 2 nights ago and said "I think it is time we started sleeping separately". I did not give her time to expand too much on that and immediately told her that she is more than welcome to move to the guest room. I know this will shock all of you, but she was amazed and flabbergasted that I would ask HER to move. She even said the term "you need to man up". I brushed it off and just said "This is our marital bedroom. If you are done with our marriage, it is only fair that you are the one to move." We talked for a little while longer as the belabored her position but I did not waiver. She huffed off saying she had to go wash some sheets. I didn't say a word and went on with my evening. She came down and watched tv with me for a little while then we went up. I am truly still working on my NGS as I was unsure if I should go help her make her bed. I even walked half way down the hall 3 times. I did not do it. I did get her pillows and other stuff out for her and laid it on the end of our (now presently my) bed. She came in and angrily said "you could have at least helped me". She then saw her pillows and said "That is the exact LEAST you could have done". I didn't take the bait and let her go.

Things are progressively getting worse and I informed my A of this and trying to speed them up to get everything drawn up. I personally believe that if I can get her into a settlement conference before she moves it will be better.

MOST DISTURBING THING EVER!! She had a bunch of papers laying on the table downstairs. I didn't know they were hers or the kids. I was cleaning up and went to put them up. There was a list of properties she was looking at and the contact #'s. There was another sheet that has really opened my eyes. It was a page of things she was going to tell the management company regarding her position, plans, etc. and how she would accomplish paying her rent. I read it and also took a picture of it since I think it is such a HUGE thing. I cannot tell anyone about this except my A (which I sent a copy to this morning as it was just yesterday evening I saw this) since this is such an eye opening thing for anyone that knows her. She states in the letter that she will be working 2 jobs. Funny. I think the judge and the Disability people will be interested in this! I don't know if this is fluff to get the place, but it is in her writing and the fact that it is 2 jobs is very important. She also said she doesn't have quite a year working yet. REALLY? When do you work and how do you get paid since our family has seen none of this? She also said she has a bank account with enough money in there to cover rent for a year. WOW. Do I feel like a person who has just been used. She can work and she has been hiding money for her "escape". It seems I have been duped by the one person I entrusted my heart and soul to for a good number of years. For someone who claimed to love me and has tried to convince me she is a good person I am finding this very hard to swallow. But I am. I am just thankful that I now have a copy of the letter for the D proceedings. She also put in there that she expects child support and alimony. You will have 2 jobs. Why do you need either? I will argue and may be able to prove it should go the other way. Probably won't on the other way part, but with this I don't think with this page of notes that she can play the disabled victim with the judge too much.

It is just a matter of time. I have an appt with my A tomorrow and hoping to get everything agreed and filed by the end of the month to start the waiting period. I would rather file quicker rather than later now.

I am kind of excited to see her try to work 2 jobs during a week the kids are with her and one of them is sick (not wishing my kids to be sick, just throwing stuff out there), the other one has activities and she is having a hard health week.

I have truly dropped the rope. Unless it involves the kids I am not interested in communicating. She is ready for her "new life" to begin and to experience dating again and probably a new partner/s. There are some amazing people out there in the world. We were a great team for a long time. We had a rough few years and even through those I made sure our family was taken care of. I don't wish her any hard times but I am fairly interested to see the fantasy fog collapse and how she will react.

I will continue to DB. If she engages, I will validate. Outside of emergencies (a situation where I deem it an emergency not her) of which I would be there. And of course anything for our kids.

My D is struggling and is in counseling. Things outside of home are affecting her emotionally so much so that she is taking a break from school for a couple of weeks to do a 2 week 8 hour per day group therapy. The issues are so huge I just can't bring myself to say it here. My daughter is my main focus now. I have said that she has very harsh feeling towards me. She has seen me the last several days working diligently to get her the help that she needs. Last night, my W made the sarcastic comment "I'm gonna go up and retire to my bedroom". I said "good night". I had a decent 20-30 min conversation with my daughter and then both my kids came down and we had a snack together and just laughed and chatted. I'm fairly certain that enraged my W. I truly don't care on that. I had a GREAT time with my kids and am so thankful that my daughter and I are having some good conversations. My W constantly is telling me that my daughter still hates me and that she is just faking it. I let that roll off. We spoke again this morning for about 15 minutes. She could just as easily have said she was tired or didn't want to talk. She didn't.

There are a few more "Holy Crap" moments along the way as well.

I feel like we have moved from Jerry Springer to a true 20/20 episode. It is that real.

My head is clear. I am still working out a lot and feeling good. Concentrating on work and my kids. I am concerned about my W's health as well as her weight has dropped drastically and she is now at a weight that the bmi calculator classifies as borderline anorexic. I also have respected her wishes and am not asking about it. If she volunteers (which is the only way I know what her weight is) I listen, validate and may ask a question or two during the validation part.

I guess I could have posted this individually over several days, but I am glad I waited. I am journaling for myself as well. I don't know how much worse this can get prior to her move but I am preparing for it non the less.

Feedback, comments, 2x4's and anything else anyone would like to send me is always greatly appreciated. I can honestly say that even through my mis steps and mistakes that I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I have done everything I could to try and save my MR and keep my family together.

I'll leave the post with this. I have never required that much sleep. Even when my now W and I were dating 20 some odd years ago I would sleep 3-5 hours a night. Last night. In my bed by myself. I slept for 7 and a half hours. When I woke up and look at the time I couldn't believe it. Funny thing was that when I came down stairs (kids were still asleep and it was still dark) my W was already up. We will see how tonight goes. I am still working on myself everyday. The focus is off of her and our MR. I will DB when the opportunity arises but this is not about my kids and me.

[SteveLW]

This is all pretty good stuff. I have just one 2x4 for you but first, well done on standing your ground on the MBR! Very well handled.

On the letter, meh. WAWs and WWS in particular always fantasize about life after D. "I'll work two jobs, have majority custody of the kids, get alimony AND child support........I'll be rolling in dough!" Reality? Yeah right. I'd also take the "I have enough money socked away to pay rent for a year" thing with a grain of salt. Someone as impulsive as her is lucky to be able to squirrel away a few hundred dollars. At most I bet she has $2k. Again, in her fantasy "my life will be wonderful" fog she makes it sound like $20,000.

On top of all of that, property managers, or any creditor for that matter, doesn't take hand-written notes of promises and unconfirmed claims as "colllateral". This just shows what a fog she is really in. "Hey property manager, look how great I am and how much money I have and have access to. Now hand me the keys!" ROFL

Okay the 2x4:

I have truly dropped the rope.

Be very very very careful with grand pronouncements like this. I still see a lot of focus on her and what she is doing in this update for someone that has "truly dropped the rope". I think your statement should be more along the lines of "I am truly trying to drop the rope". Declaring victory too soon opens you up for defeat. Be confident you can drop the rope, but don't claim you have until you REALLY have.

[Dtrmned]

Thanks Steve.
As far as the money goes. She stated in on the page that she has enough money in an account and can send them a screenshot of the balance. That was the big shock. I thought it way different than just "I have enough money so trust me". I just love it as she also put on the top of the letter "Lay it all out for them to know everything". Thinking ahead through negotiations, mediation or even a judge this appears to be fairly straight forward.

Dear Property Manger,
I will be working 2 jobs. I have enough money in the bank to show you I can pay and/or pay you rent in advance for a year. I also have a cosigner.
Thanks,
WAW

So we go to negotiate, mediate or court and she says "I'm disabled and here is my medical file, I can't work" , we get to say, then why are you saying you are already working "the line of I don't have quite a year of employment" and that you are going to add another job? I can see the judge asking "WAW. Why would you be trying to re-open your disability case with an attorney when you have been working and have portrayed yourself to be able to be gainfully employable?".
"And also, if you are able to work, why would you need spousal maintenance?"

Next question would be on the asset side. "WAW, you show on your financial disclosure that you have nothing other than retirement accounts and a few hundred dollars in the bank. This indicated you have an account with a substantial balance that you did not disclose to this court. Please explain."

Again, I will ask my A tomorrow on this. I think we hold this out as long as we need to and then disclose it after she has put in her "claims" against me.

I don't know how her credit is now but when I was doing everything even after the financial collapse we were in the excellent range within 9 months.

I appreciate the 2x4. I also know I will have good and bad days. That if she struggles I will be very tempted to help. When she tries to bait me in, it will be tough depending on the situation to not engage. I am working everyday on this.

[Dtrmned]

Just updating in case anyone was wondering.

Things are progressing quickly towards D. We are scheduled before a mediator in about 10 days. We are trying desperately to settle without attorneys doing their thing on both sides delaying the inevitable and costing a ton of money and aggravation on both sides.

W is still determined to go. She has secured a place and it is just a matter of time. I am doing all I can to hold everything together. I am pleading with my W to just remain in the current home until our daughter is done with her 2-3 week day long therapy. I think it is better for her to not have the transition during this and also, since the times are very close, it is impossible for one parent to take care of both of the kids at drop off or at pick up for school. I guess "plead" would be the wrong word. I would just like her to see the reality of just this part and the short term sacrifice for our daughter. We are talking later this morning.

I want us to mediate, work this out, agree and file together. However if she moves during my D's therapy, I will have no choice but to file and ask for temporary full custody. NOT what I want to do. W have chose a place 30 minutes from our children's school. She will not be able to change them, but the commute is going to be quite an increase for them when she has them. Selfish planning on my W's part, but "not my problem". Just worried about the kids.

Funny. I've been sleeping better since she moved out of the bedroom into the spare room. She's complained every day about her sleep and pain and everything. I guess that it will be good that i won't have to hear it for too much longer.

Still working more and more on GAL. Honestly, just focused on my daughter's issues right now and doing my best to not let everything blow up with the W. Patience and perseverence are key. It has taken a long time, but the "rose colored glasses" through which I viewed my wife are beginning to clear. Having the things you never thought someone that close to you was capable of to just be exposed fully are both empowering and undeniably eye opening. To think that all along I was such a fool. No more.

I leave with this. My family is still in the same home. The clock is ticking and this will be over with in the next few weeks. I am ready to move on and move forward with my life and do all I can to support my kids and have a great time with them. I still love my wife. I believe that I always will. This doesn't mean she will control me, nor will I let her. I am too good a person to be treated the way I have been treated. No one deserved to be used this way.

Happy Friday everyone! Enjoy your day. Kiss your kids! If you have a significant other, hug them dearly!

[Dtrmned]

I had to meet my W for a meeting at one of our kids schools.
It is just weird now. I see her differently. She is pale. Bloodshot eyes. tired. Almost frail. Even weirder (to me) she showed up wearing my jacket. She has close to 100 (or so) coats, jackets, hoodies, etc. Why mine? Just weird to me. And yes, I know it is sad that I notice that and it bothers me. Not detached enough. Definitely.

Good interaction between us at the meeting. We chatted idly and made it through easily. Parted ways and on with my day.

[Dtrmned]

PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS!!

Sandi, Steve, everyone. PLEASE...

All of you know my situation. Difficult as any on this board. No better, no worse.

First. I had a good weekend. Spent a lot of time with my kids and enjoyed all of it!

W is still in the home. She was out of it most of the weekend sleeping most of the entire day both Saturday and Sunday.
She has secured a new place and is slowly moving stuff over there. We are still living in the same house due to our daughter's therapy with is 2-3 weeks long and meets or lets out at the same time our son's school does so it takes both of us to get them around. If not for that, she would be gone now. I would rather my daughter be better and have my W gone than to deal with this. Things almost really blew up to full blown Attorney's last week. My A is really good and actually calmed me down. We should have a mediator scheduled this week or next and my goal is to have a signed plan in place prior to my daughter's completion and reintegration back to school. This is going to be difficult enough for her anyway.

I am concerned for my children as my W has chosen to live 30 minutes away from their school. She admittedly can't drive at night, and with the time change and shorter days this is going to become increasingly difficult. She can't change their school districts (I checked) and the one she chose to live within is drastically worse than the one they are in (the best in our area by far). Other concern I found out is that her place does not allow pets. We have 2 dogs that our kids absolutely love. One of which has slept with our daughter for the last 6 years. I know they will "cope". I just hate to see that much more of their world come apart.

Now you are all caught up.

First comments:

1- I am letting all of this go. She did a long time ago, it just took me forever to hear it and then a lot longer to actually see it and believe it. Don't get me wrong. This is not easy in the least.

2- I have moved from mourning the loss of my marriage (still happens) to mostly the realization that I will miss my kids so much. The little things. The laughter, the drama, dinners, breakfasts, just having them come sit beside me and watch tv for a little while. Yes they are growing up and more independent and don't need me as much. I just love them. Always will. They will get a little "bump" of excitement with their new move and I hope they enjoy the adventures they will be having that come to them.

3- W is still in her fantasy fog. I believe she has done enough financial moves to last her for at least a year (totally dependent on her spending habits which I fear will increase initially as she is getting her new place laid out). I am not being morbid or mean, but unless she is just waiting for one of her parents to pass so she can inherit something. This will all be chewed up very quickly.


now Questions:

I wish i could say I didn't love my wife. I do and am resigned that i probably always will. I guess the BIG question I have is that based on our history and what has happened. Is there a decent chance that after D that we could get back together? Asking only since I had a dream on Saturday. Vivid dream of me and my wife. I don't know the time period, but we were divorced and it was some time (a few years) down the road. We were just lying and laughing together and then it got intimate. The physical part was great, but it was the mental part. The conversation and words shared between us that both woke me up with a smile and also scared me to death.

Is this possible? or is this just my mind playing another trick and its a pipe dream?

How do you contemplate this while knowing you are going through a D, your marriage is over, and you are starting a new life?

I know we will have some connection due to the kids, but it really won't be that much considering the ease of communication we have these days to avoid actual face to face interaction.

She has systematically over time parted me out of a different part of her life. Now we are this part. I think it has been easier for her (not diminishing) since she has had the cushion of my support through most of it.

Looking for input here to. Is she totally done with our marriage and moved on? Or, is there a realization (or crash) coming when she is actually not with me? I figure there will be a huge euphoric feeling from her initially being "free" or however she would like to word it. She gets to be empowered by leaving.

Just looking for some help and input from you guys out there.
I am much better. I am astonishingly not bitter for the last week or so as well. I do hate what she is doing to our family and still also believe we are better together than apart, but again I am resigned to the reality and only what I can control.

JS

[SteveLW]

Your questions are all common questions that we LBSs go through.

First, is it possible to R? Absolutely. It always is. All but those in the worse situations always have hope of this happening. We have one guy here whose W has come sniffing around after 4 years of being D'd (ItHurts). So yes it can happen. However, you shouldn't have that expectation, and in fact you should just consider that it never will happen. That is what detachment is. Moving on, but having an underlying hope that R could happen one day. Admittedly most LBSs eventually move on and are no longer open to Ring. That is always your choice. If she ever comes back YOU will have the power to decide what happens.

"Looking for input here to. Is she totally done with our marriage and moved on? Or, is there a realization (or crash) coming when she is actually not with me? I figure there will be a huge euphoric feeling from her initially being "free" or however she would like to word it. She gets to be empowered by leaving. "

A lot attempted mindreading going on here. First, we have no idea if she is totally done with the marriage and has moved on. Likely she doesn't even know that! And yes, there is always the chance that once she completes her move she'll after a period of time freak out and wonder what in the world she has done. Again, not idea to know. She may have an euphoric feeling of being free and empowered. Or not.

The problem here is you are too focused on her! What are you going to do to move on once she is gone? How is your GAL going? What are you doing to work on yourself? Leave her alone to own and figure out her own crap. You need to be working on YOU!

"I am resigned to the reality and only what I can control."

Start here. Facing reality is good. But I see you focusing on a lot of things you cannot control. That was my last point. Stop worrying about what she is thinking and feeling. Concentrate on what you are thinking and feeling. Many LBSs think that D is going to be the worst thing possible, and then find out afterward that they are the ones that feel free and empowered! This is what working on you is about. When you detach, 180, and GAL you realize that you are ultimately in control of your happiness. Not her.

[Ready2Change]

All of you know my situation.

Not me. I will give you my general advise.

She has secured a new place and is slowly moving stuff over there. We are still living in the same house due to our daughter's therapy with is 2-3 weeks long and meets or lets out at the same time our son's school does so it takes both of us to get them around.

Do you have a 50/50 parenting plan in place? If not, that is where I would focus your energy.

I am concerned for my children as my W has chosen to live 30 minutes away from their school. She admittedly can't drive at night, and with the time change and shorter days this is going to become increasingly difficult.

Bring up your concerns with W and ask her what her plan is.

[AnotherStander]

I am concerned for my children as my W has chosen to live 30 minutes away from their school. She admittedly can't drive at night, and with the time change and shorter days this is going to become increasingly difficult. She can't change their school districts (I checked) and the one she chose to live within is drastically worse than the one they are in (the best in our area by far). Other concern I found out is that her place does not allow pets. We have 2 dogs that our kids absolutely love. One of which has slept with our daughter for the last 6 years. I know they will "cope". I just hate to see that much more of their world come apart.

OK, well first let me say that this is what separation and divorce is all about. Life is changing for both of you. What I'm hearing from you is a lot of panic and fear about the future. Here's the thing, you don't know what the future holds. Things will probably be inconvenient, maybe VERY inconvenient. But that's part of it. You're no longer a family living in one home. All you can do is roll with it, and don't let your W steamroll you into making her own bad choices YOUR inconveniences.

I will miss my kids so much. The little things. The laughter, the drama, dinners, breakfasts, just having them come sit beside me and watch tv for a little while.

Why are you talking like those things are all going away? You do still have 50% custody, correct? A lot of people find that when they have less custody, they value it more and make better use of it. And when you don't have the kids, well that's your time to double or triple down on GAL.

3- W is still in her fantasy fog. I believe she has done enough financial moves to last her for at least a year (totally dependent on her spending habits which I fear will increase initially as she is getting her new place laid out).

Why is that YOUR fear? You have got to let her go!! I remember having the same thoughts about my ex. Figured there was no way she could manage her finances properly. Thought she might come crawling back after failing miserably on her own. Well guess what, 6 years later she still has her job, she has her own home, has a newer car, still buys gifts for the kids, does some traveling here and there. She is doing just fine without me, and your W probably will too.

I guess the BIG question I have is that based on our history and what has happened. Is there a decent chance that after D that we could get back together?

The chances are very small. Why? Because by the time she looks back, YOU will have moved on. It happens a lot- the LBS becomes the WAS.

Looking for input here to. Is she totally done with our marriage and moved on?

Yes. She thinks that change of heart is permanent, but it may or may not be. Only time will tell.

Or, is there a realization (or crash) coming when she is actually not with me?

Highly unlikely. She will probably enjoy being alone even if it's financially difficult.

I do hate what she is doing to our family

Don't blame, because blaming leads to resentment. If you were to ask her I'm sure she would say this is all your fault. This is why most locales have gone to "no-fault" divorces. Nearly every one is a case of "he said, she said".

[Dtrmned]

Thanks everyone!
Yes. I am still way to attached to "her" outcome. Going to see an IC to help me through this stuff.
Going to fake it until I make it as best I can. I know for a fact I will be alright. I believe she will be as well. I just wanted better for us. For our family. I am pushing forward to a light that will shine on my life soon. I just want to get there. I want it quick but am cautious to make sure I do it right. The final settlement will be one that lasts for years. So long term not short term. W took a nap this morning from around 9 to 2ish. Only reason I know is my daughter texted me asking to pick something up that they were going to get.

I am writing these things down in a journal. I don't ever want to use the information I have. I am wanting an amicable agreement but I don't see her agreeing to anything near what I could do.

I wish I could blink my eyes and this would be done. I am so over this pain and anguish. WHY?

All of the advice was heard. Even though I hate this. I don't want it to happen. And I hate losing my family. There is absolutely NOTHING I can do about it. Period. The ONLY thing I can do is control how I react. Despite what she has said and currently believes, I know I am a good man and a good father. I also know I was a husband that most would only dream of and a happy home for many, many years.

Lastly, just going through this I have learned to treasure each and every moment with my kids. I did before, but it means so much more now.