By success, i mean when the H has career driven goals and doesnt let anything get in the way of his achieving them. Im sure a large part of that would also be financial success as well.
I 100% agree with you on that. It is about having the drive and having goals and not being deterred by failure because you know failure is part of success and continuously growing from it. I can just say that I will never get to the financial level as my W unless I change industries, but I can be hella successful in what I do.
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I dont think rising the ranks at McD's is going to turn many wives on???
HAHAHAHAHAH! I almost fell outta my chair reading that. Good one EQ. Well you never know.. maybe doing a minimum wage job to stay afloat while hustling at something else gets mad respect from me. I care about the hustle and dedication. If McD is a pit stop to being a CFO, you go flip those burgers good.
Let me say this in another way - Are you ALL IN with what you do and who you are? Are you ALL IN doing it for YOU? If so, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. I know this is a slight deviation from the whole 'respect' discussion, but we constantly here talk about focusing on ourselves to grow. If you had that internal $hit figured out, you've already won. This is a hella painful way to learn that lesson, but we've all lost our way and our identities and the BD is a symptom of that. The only correction is not to undo the past or BD, but to reclaim ourselves. That is the way out.
LH19 has probably one of my most favorite tag lines here and it's from Will Smith - Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life, will come to you. And stay.
So true Maika, that is an extremely painful way to learn that lesson...dont lose yourself in your MR, and keep focused on your goals and success. Im so guilty of that, and thats one of my WWs biggest issues. I tried to be #1 dad, a good husband, but forgot to be succesful in career goals...or in my case to even have them. Wish i had a do over.
Together:20 years M:3 years Me:40 WW:40 S15 A suspected:5/17 AC:5/18 BD:8/18 WW in full blown R w/ OM Still under same roof
It's okay EQ. Don't beat yourself up. One of the most important things I learned in this journey to have self-compassion and learn from the past. I can say that I was exactly similar to you. Excavate your past for the lessons and leave the emotions out of it - it's not easy but comes with time. Once you get there, it's like someone lit a fire inside of you. But self-compassion is equally important. I wrote this on another thread but the other thing I learned is be happy with who you are today. However you know you can do a little better tomorrow. So do that. Over time, these improvements will have an exponential gain.
You do have a chance for a do-over. Life isn't over yet man. Rich Roll overcame addiction and started his ultra endurance career in his 40s. It's only late when you're on your death bed and you look back with regret. I don't want to have any major regrets about what I wanted to do in life and who I wanted to be.
Twofeet - did you ever have a conversation with her about what you were doing was becoming 'expected' and that you were not getting appreciation from her? Did you show her appreciation for what she was doing? And I mean not just deciding how you felt like appreciating her, but asking her how she would like to be appreciated for pulling her weight? If you didn't, it goes back to my point about communication and understanding expectations clearly. Otherwise both of you were engaging in covert contracts.
Ballast also brought a really good point - the expectation of getting something done from the perspective of both people. What was considered timely? For example, my W would consider doing dishes right after dinner as 'timely', where I saw doing it after putting kids to bed as 'timely'. So if I wouldn't get to it right after dinner, she would get annoyed at me. In turn I would get annoyed because she would just do it rather than let me do it before going to bed. I think this is a big piece that needs to be communicated and understood by both people.
Maika,
Yes I had many conversations with her, and her response was a mirror of mine. We both showed each other appreciation, but I think it was often not enough or in the wrong language ie our own LL. Which follows your last point about communication. I know I had covert contracts and it was likely she did as well. There were many other major factors that contributed to where we are at with her D me. However, one theme that keeps revolving in my head especially after IC pulls off blinders, is that we were two married idiots that didn't know how to properly communicate to each other.
Your point to Ballast was valid in my sitch. Timeliness was important to both of us and while communicated, it is obvious that it was communicated in a way we never understood that importance.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
I was a stay at home mom for about 13 years, so I did everything in the house. That was o.k. at the time because he was gone long hours at work. And he has always taken care of the outside....mowing, trimming, etc. Then when I went back to work full time, H said he would cook 2 days a week. That lasted for about 3 weeks, and it was the same thing pretty much with different seasonings. He fizzled out. He promised to do it, then he didn't do it. That's what grated on my nerves. I don't think helping around the house is unmanly, in fact I would have appreciated at least the offer. It would have told me that he sees I am working hard so he wants to ease my burden out of love. That would have made me feel closer to him.
In more recent times, I felt closest to him when he just kept me company, sharing a glass a wine, and chatting about our day while i was cooking a meal. Those times were rare, and pretty much non-existent in the few months prior to moving out. Those little things that show they notice your burden, or just enjoy your company.
All in all it's all about communication, negotiation, and meeting expectations.
It would have told me that he sees I am working hard so he wants to ease my burden out of love. That would have made me feel closer to him.
In more recent times, I felt closest to him when he just kept me company, sharing a glass a wine, and chatting about our day while i was cooking a meal.
That's exactly what my W repeatedly asked of me. And I failed to deliver. You never realize that the little things end up being the big things...
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Hi Equalzr, thanks for the invite to join the conversation. I've been pretty vocal about men being SAHD's; men coming home from their jobs and then doing all the work at home; and men who have the false idea that when the W is not happy in the MR, it's his clue to wear a Super Husband cape and do EVERYTHING for the little princess. The worst I've heard about is men who work fulltime, and the W does not work, and he does everything (grocery shopping, yard work, cook, clean, laundry......everything) while she is bored stiff b/c she has nothing to do. Then, he wonders why she doesn't respect him as a man and why they have a SSM.
We are speaking mainly in general terms about men losing their W's respect over him doing too much of the domestic work. However, it's difficult for me to not give specifics, b/c every stitch a bit a different. Clear communication and understanding one another's needs and/or expectations is crucial, and the earlier in the M, the better. In other words, when it's just the H & W (before babies come along), and also understand that with time, their situation will change, and that calls for them to be flexible...….or have a MR at risk.
I will be the first to tell men that women can be spoiled, just like a child. Spoiled women can develop expectations rather quickly, and they aren't very appreciative, as their list of demands may tend to grow. (Just for the record, men can be spoiled, too, but we're talking about the W). This affects her level of respect b/c the poor H is trying to appease, but he is actually catering to her by doing whatever she desires. There needs to be a clear line in what is considered chores, what is considered "helping" or "assistance", and what is volunteered. This is where things tend to get out of balance, b/c one of them will see this "activity" as a sign of love. That can lead to more discussion, but for now I'll try to keep it here by saying if the H is doing all the work and leaving nothing for his able bodied W, he is making a big mistake. This quickly places him in a subservient role, rather than being seen as head of the home/family. She begins to feel an entitlement......and superiority. It shows in how she interacts with him. When women have a H who is more than happy to oblige. I think she has to keep her attitude/spirit sweet, loving, and appreciative for everything he does......and the H has to keep her in check!
IMHO, the couple should decide which "chores" each will do. Depending on several things, such as if they both have careers, if they have children, if one is a stay-at-home parent, if one has any health issues, etc., etc. Of course, the ideal situation is where both are working together to take care of their family's needs. However, one spouse may feel they have more of the burden, and problems begin with resentment.
Maybe some couples can have a good MR where the W has a career and the H is a SAHD. I just have not seen any that were successful, b/c of similar reasons I stated previously. She loses attraction for him as a man, when this is a long term setup. Since being on the board, I've seen some young H's who said they thought by doing absolutely everything and not leaving any unfinished work for the W, it proved how much he loved her. Of course, these men had a huge case of NGS......and as a result, had even bigger rotten WW's. As the head of the home, I believe the man has to maintain this balance, and it's up to him to set things aright when his W's attitude shifts. Make sense?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I've seen some young H's who said they thought by doing absolutely everything and not leaving any unfinished work for the W, it proved how much he loved her. Of course, these men had a huge case of NGS......and as a result, had even bigger rotten WW's.
