It was a bunch of things that I neglected. Things that attracted my W to me. Little and big surprises, date nights, day trips, etc. When I met my W, I had things that I did. I liked to fish, hunt, camp, hang out with friends, go on vacations with friends (especially to sporting events). I volunteered a lot (especially for the Special Olympics). By the end of our marriage, I had become a hermit. I started staying home mostly because I felt my W was overburdened because she was a work from home mom
I believe a lot of marriages fail b/c one or both partners stop being the person they were when their spouse fell in love with them. By that, I mean they don't necessarily grow from that point......they just become someone unattractive (and I don't mean just physically). They stop doing the things that fed romance into the relationship. A MR is a living thing, and if it's not nourished, it dies.
When the MR is in trouble, one of the first things many men think is that their W wants help around the house. I'm not saying it wouldn't make a difference, but when a woman is happy in their relationship.....she won't as unhappy about some of those burdens. In other words, if you killed her attraction.....no amount of helping out with chores is going to bring that back. Make sense? Women want to feel loved and romanced. They don't want to be stuck with a dead stump for a H.
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Originally Posted by sandi2
I don't think you have to show your W what a great father you are......since the kids were already the center of your time and attention.
The words that trip me in your quote are, "to be so attractive". Can you be motived to be an attractive individual, apart from fatherhood? Do you understand what I mean? You will always be a father, but you need to find your identity as a man, too.
This is where I'm drowning. Right after BD, I saw my W for one weekend. I did everything wrong. Pleading, doing little things for her, etc. She had no appreciation for this. Now, I understand why. Since late August, I have had a grand total of 5 minutes face-to-face time with my W--just when we meet at the airport when I go visit my girls. I'm unable to validate. I'm unable to show a more attractive side of me. I'm exercising, going out more, volunteering again, getting involved in my faith more. These are things that I'm doing for myself. These are things that might make me more attractive to my W, but she has no way of knowing about these things--except for the occasional post on social media. I feel like I can't even show a more attractive side of me until we live nearby again, and that will be long after the divorce is finalized. I still want to make these changes for me, but I'm at a loss to "show" my W these changes.
You aren't ready to show her changes yet. How do I know? B/c it hasn't sunk into your brain that this is a process that takes personal growth. I promise you if she came back tonight, you would mess up and she'd be gone again before the weekend. Why? B/c you just want to "show her". This is the time to "become". This is your time and space to learn and grow and change yourself into a better man. That's why we tell you to read this and that......so you can store up the knowledge, and grow. These guys that get eager to show the W how they've changed, usually haven't made changes that will stick. And, if the changes aren't going to stick, then those guys will be back on the board later.
Some things, like validation, can be practiced on other people. If you aren't a natural at validating, then it's going to sound really fake to your W. However, you can use this time to practice with your friends, relatives, co-workers, etc. You can also polish your personality, manners, charm, etc. And don't worry, she knows a lot more about you than you think!
Let me tell you a little secret about girls. They can usually spot the "show-off" very easily, and they aren't too impressed with him. I know you don't mean "to show her" in this context, but you'll still come across as trying too hard......which is ALWAYS obvious to a woman. Do you know when your changes will pay off? When you aren't trying to convince her you are worthy of her.
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I think this is the question. I'm slowly getting my mojo back, but there's no chance to show her this. I'm pretty much going with little contact--unless she asks me a direct question. It keeps me sane, but I'm not sure it's the right thing to do in my sitch.
This is how I know you aren't really hearing or trusting in what we are saying. No offense, but you've got to change this mindset of showing her something you've read or changed, b/c that's not what will carry you through this crisis. The majority of newcomer H's think this way when they first arrive, and have to be whacked a few times before their head starts to clear where they can think outside of the box. And, I'll tell you something else about these guys who are busting a gut to show their big changes...….when the WW tells them she's noticed but still doesn't want to reconcile, they are devastated b/c they were so focused on how to get her attention on the improvements that they missed actually "becoming" that man. If you actually become the man.....then you will have what you need to have a good life with, or without, her. In other words, your changes will do the most good when they run deep and are made for you. Am I making sense, or making you crazy? I realize you are looking for some type of connection, b/c you think she won't know or see...…..but I'm telling you if you do this right.....she'll know. There is a time for every thing, and your moment will come when the time is right. In the meantime, get your focus off her seeing you.
You say you are slowly getting your mojo back. That's great. Now, let's talk about b@lls. If you have a WW, she knows how to chew up your b@lls and spit them back in your face. So...…...I suggest you work on growing really big ones, before you attempt much interaction with her. Know what I mean? Nothing and nobody will test you, like a WW can test you.
((hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, i apologize for the thread jack, but I would like your input in my sitch as well. From a former WW, please review, if/when you can the details of my thread and chime in. I have had so many great folks give good advice. Now I am asking you to show me your perspective.
We can't all be alpha males. But guess what, some of us can. All of us can't be dominate males. But guess what, some of us can. Woman desire dominate men. Go read sani's secret again.
Do not answer these questions here. Just think about them. How many ladies did you interact with today? How many of those found you attractive? How can you increase those numbers?
You can stay the same, or grow from this. It is your choice. Your consequences.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Update. I'm doing surprisingly well. I know there will be ups and downs, but a couple of weeks ago (after two months of getting no indication that reconciliation was even a consideration; whatever there was, it was just mind reading) I really started detaching. GALing and 180 have been good for awhile. I stopped following W on social media, and I have minimal contact with W. I realize that I'll be alright without W. I still have the girls, a great job, great family and friends, etc. I've made so many positive changes (weight is at college weight, volunteering a lot, hanging out with family and friends more) that I'm focused on making the changes permanent. Divorce agreement is almost finalized (I think it's fair to both of us, including child custody). It will be filed the week before Thanksgiving. I've always been pretty resilient and comfortable in my own skin. There are a lot of unknowns (mostly regarding future relationships), but I'm trying to focus on the moment.
I wrote myself a manifesto. I refer to it every day.
This season of my life has been tough. Use the pain to become a better man, a better father, and a better Christian. Control what I can control to become that better man every day for the rest of my life.
FAITH. Strengthen my relationship with God. Draw closer to Him. Continue to read the Bible and other Christian resources. Continue with fellowship at work. Regularly attend church. Regularly go on missions trips. (Goal: Join a serving Life Group.)
KINDNESS. Continue to volunteer a lot. Continue random acts of kindness. Always be humble and kind. (Goal: Be kinder when I'm driving.)
FORGIVENESS. Do not be mad at W. She just wants to be happy. I am the one who largely failed her. Forgive her and seek to become her friend.
ATTRACTIVENESS. Always dress nice. Always look nice. Get my swagger back. Get back to being an alpha male. Be confident, upbeat, relaxed, and fun.
RELATIONSHIPS. I avoided the big mistakes in my marriage (abuse, cheating, work/life balance, being a bad parent, etc.), but I made a lot of little mistakes. Identify and improve on the little things I could have done better.
Connectedness. Always treat her as my best friend. Enjoy and appreciate time spent together. Do little and big surprises. Date nights.
Communication. Listen to her, actually hear what she is saying. Learn her love language. Study her. Learn what makes her tick, what her concerns are. Use resources like The Love Dare, Divorce Remedy, etc. to better myself.
Attitude. Don't overreact to nagging. Nagging shows she is still invested in the relationship. Be positive, patient, and forgiving.
FATHERHOOD. Continue to be fully invested in my relationship with my daughters. Continue to use resources to better myself as a father.
LIFESTYLE. Continue to exercise (walking, push-ups, sit-ups, planks, squats) and diet. (Goal: Stay below 165 pounds.) Get eight hours of sleep. Continue to quit chewing. Continue to re-engage with family and friends. Grow my circle of Christian friends.
BE MYSELF. Get back to doing things that I like: Golfing, Outdoors (camping, fishing, hunting), Traveling. (Goal: Visit all 50 states.) (Goal: Visit all 6 habitable continents.)
GROW. Try new things. Become handier around the house. (Goal: Become a better cook.) Go on more mission's trips. Maybe try sky diving.
GOALS Join a serving Life Group. Be kinder when I'm driving. Stay below 165 pounds. Visit all 50 states. Visit all 6 habitable continents. Become a better cook.
MOTTO God has great plans for me. I will survive. I am lovable. I deserve to be loved.
I feel like a million bucks. I haven't had a bad day since last Monday. I had an epiphany on that day. I was talking to my cousin, who is like a sister to me. I told her that I had withdrawn from W and, to a lesser extent, the girls. She said "no, you withdrew from yourself." I realized she was right. I stopped doing the things that I liked to do. I lost connection with the people that I love. I stopped being me. I stopped growing. As difficult as this has been, I feel invigorated. I feel like I'm back to my old self, but a better version of the old me. It was the kick in the pants that I needed to stop sleepwalking through life. Deep down I know things are going to be alright. I'm becoming AMOAFWL.
Do I have hope? I don't have expectations that my W and I will reconcile, but I have hope that the woman in my next relationship will get a great version of me. I have hope that my life will be kick ass. The last few weekends with my girls gave me a sense of relief. I was fully invested. We had a great time. I know that my relationship with my girls will be top notch because I won't let it be anything other than that.
In some ways being apart made my sitch suck. The fact that we've had to fast track the divorce wasn't advantageous. However, it has allowed me to finally detach. The GAL, 180, detach was awesome advice. Not for getting my W back (although it's the only chance I had), but to allow me to get through this. I have always been pretty resilient, and I almost feel guilty that I'm doing so well emotionally, but there are plenty of positives to take from this. I've become awesome again. My relationship with my girls is better. I've reconnected with family and friends. I'm volunteering at least once/week. The divorce agreement was completely fair. I have a good support system. I have an awesome job that will allow me to travel a lot with my girls (and I'll have them most weekends). I'm in great shape. I'm cooking actual meals. I'm becoming self-reliant again.
GAL tonight is having an old friend over. GAL on Sunday will be going to another old friend's house to play board games. Unfortunately, tomorrow will be dedicated to cleaning the house ahead of a open house on Sunday.
That hope will make your more attractive to your W. She, and others, will sense or feel the difference in you.
Your progress is great. Have you had any contact with W lately?
At this point I don't care all that much if I become attractive to my W again. I've become attractive to myself--as weird as that sounds. I like where I am at.
W texts and calls me all of the time, but that's mostly to do with the divorce filing and logistics in seeing the girls. I don't start text threads. I never call. If she asks a question, I respond, but I usually make her wait. I'm still doing well.
This weekend I will be deer hunting in the Badlands of North Dakota. I'm really looking forward to it--although we've lost most of the old timers that used to hunt with us. Today is the 7th anniversary of the last time I hunted with my Dad. His friend who hunted with us died last year. Two other old timers have gotten too blind to hunt. Another old timer had back surgery. This year it will just be five of us. My Mom is the only old timer left. The other three are younger than me (children of other old timers).
Next week W is filing for divorce. They say it takes 1-3 months to process... depending on case load. I'll have the girls for Thanksgiving this year.
I have gotten to the point where I'm pretty close to fully detached. Continue to GAL and 180. I know my story is boring and doesn't get a lot of replies, but I have gotten a lot of wisdom here that has helped me through this. I appreciate the insight I have been given. Thank you all!
Confession: my name is not really Harvey
P.S. I went a stretch of five days in a row where I cooked myself actual meals. Stuff like pork chops and home cooked soup with a grilled cheese thrown in. That may be the longest stretch of my life--as I'd eat out a lot before I met my W.
Harvey - I don't think your thread is boring at all. I read it with interest and marvel at the leaps and bounds you are making. You are doing remarkably well.
Five days of cooking home cooked meals. I don't even manage that and I love to cook
Originally Posted by harvey
m At this point I don't care all that much if I become attractive to my W again. I've become attractive to myself--as weird as that sounds. I like where I am at.
Not weird at all. I look in the mirror sometimes and feel exactly the same way. Though, I still make the extra effort when I know he will see me which is pretty much every day. I guess I still have some ways before I am properly detached.
Originally Posted by harvey
W texts and calls me all of the time, but that's mostly to do with the divorce filing and logistics in seeing the girls. I don't start text threads. I never call. If she asks a question, I respond, but I usually make her wait. I'm still doing well.
You should treat her like anyone else. Fully detached means not playing games. But, again, you are closer to being detached that me
In anywise, I think you are doing exceptionally well.
