she could be like my H, who told me he rather not known any details if I ever did something, it was a surprise to me, miss-have-to-know-it-ALL. When he came back he was starting to ask me if I did stuff when he was away, then stopped abruptly and said "I rather now know, that way I dont' have to think about it, I dont' want to know anything". Not that anything happened, but he's that way.
...but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.
piecing after separation
FF--it's a hard thing to accept the unconditional love. But it's your task now. Each day you will feel more comfortable with it. You deserve it.
Another take on your W now. I think it may be a few things. One, it may be her coping mechanism to just push past the past....to not talk about the pain, the actions, etc. That may be how she deals with things. Only you can figure that out since you know her. Second, it may be that it's been pretty recent that you came back home and it's been a process all the way. She may not be comfortable letting loose on her feelings of the past. Like most of us here, the few times when we DID let our MLC spouse know about the pain they caused us, and talked about it, they ran back into the tunnel again. You also mention that her being quiet and not asking questions is what got you to take another look and come back. She is probably still operating on that same mode.
So, it might take her a while to trust YOU enough to open up, beyond you just telling her that you're open to it. You have to show her now. Maybe you can take the initiative to verbalize some of your actions, and tell her that you understand how it made her feel...and be specific. It grounds your apologies more, and it demonstrates that you really do understand and empathize. That is POWERFUL. Do it slowly....then she may trust that she can talk to you about this without having you run away.
Just as she ws patient with you going through your MLC journey, be patient with her opening up. You were mostly responsible for her shutting down like that. Your patience and actions will be the thing to bring that back.
That being said, I DO think that it IS VERY necessary to talk about things and not just brush it aside and move on. It is essential to moving on. Talk about it, learn and let it go.
You will get there....but it's your job now to pave the road to make it happen.
Be consistent and patient in your efforts to make her feel safe in opening up to you. If she expresses rightful anger...then accept it, humbly and with strength. Let her vent.
FF, Have you ever done something soo stupid infront of a crowd where you just want to crawl up and die. Odds are, you never wanted to talk about that day again...Right? If your wife is like me, which it sounds like she could be, she's probly trying to get on with her life. And the best way to do so is to live in the moment not in the past. When something hurts soo bad, you just want to forget it and move on.
Love is about forgiving. Forgive yourself and time will heal your pain.
As for myself, I deal with my H leaving by not talking about it to my H. I talk to my closest friend, usually after a few drinks. I tend to watch him like a hawk, just in case I get hurt again, but as time has gone on, he has proved himself to be somewhat trustworthy again. I live in todays world. I am blessed to have a second chance, and I am blessed to have a future once again with my soul mate. Out of EVERYTHING I have learnt, I will no longer take love for granted again. It should be an honor to have a partner. (my H had a QLC and left me while preg with 2nd child, as well had a PA when seperated. After 3 months, he returned. That was 1.5 years ago)
Treat your wife like gold. And be patient. I find that every now and then something will come up about the past. We speak quickly about it, then I change the topic. The last thing I want is to remember my pain, or show my pain to a man that will have to live with his actions for the rest of his life. I don't want to rub it in his face. Live and forgive...right
Hope that helps. PLW
I saved my marriage and so can you....Its all about positive thinking...
no Ellie that was not my plan.i posted on my own thread about my life. but it is very hard to come to this place and month after month see the same person swimming in self pity and refusing to get off of her ass and do something else. the posts are all about woe is me. never anything positive. it is sad. so sad.i doubt i am the only one who sees this in her posts but nobody says a word. how is this helping? where is the support, just a there there it will all be Ok and nothing changes.regarless of any one elses opinion and my mlc there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. get some meds or see a shrink or make a change. nobody should live like that. and no my words do not show the empathy I have for this girl but there comes a time when one needs to be real and honest.
I am reposting this as there is no need to hijack barbies thread.my posts to wl are my thoughts my opinions. we are supposed to encourage one another and help each other out of the doom and gloom but when one is so deadset on refusing to budge it makes me angry. to be that age again and have so much of life ahead of you and then to watch it just waste away is heartbreaking.maybe one of these days she might just get it.
I just came across this and will post it here to re-post one of Happy_Agains posts that highlights his story
This is HAPPY AGAIN’s recollection of his MLC.Now that we have it in its entirety I will get Cadet to post it so that it is easily found.
We were young when we got married and had kids early. I knew it was a mistake, yes I loved her but wasn't ready for marriage. Nothing I ever did was good enough for her so I decided to stop doing it. I feel I was sold a bill of goods, she changed after the kids came and put them first. The sex was boring, and she gained like 30 pounds which made her ugly. She blamed the weight on the antidepressants, I think she was just too lazy to exercise. She was always interfering in everything I did. Wanting to read all of the cell phone bills and ask about the calls to my friend, so what, she didn't care about me.
So now I have my own life, my own space, I see my kids and I give her money that is all I need to do for her. For all of our married life she didn't need me or love me or want me and all of a sudden she can't live without
She just wants to control me again and take over. Well I am finally out of her grasp, we are friendly to each other and polite. There is no hope for this marriage because if I let my guard down she will start again, as it took me years to get the courage to leave I can't go back now. Now she can go and get a job and help to support the family as I can't support her forever. My kids will be OK, I have told them that we love them and I am willing to do anything for them. I am sure they will eventually see the truth that their mother pushed me out of the marriage with her control and anger issues. If only she would have listened years ago it would have worked out for us, now she has made everyone’s life bad because she refused to change.
The last few years have been miserable so I moved out a year ago. She cried and begged and wrote letters saying she was sorry. She even called my friend and interfered with that relationship. She even tried to seduce me, wanted to ML to me, and I turned her down flat.
I just don't want to be controlled anymore I am sick of cowering to her. She took care of everything and I let her which was my mistake, but she wouldn't ever let go of the steering wheel when it was time to hand it over. Sometimes I get so frustrated and even when I know she hasn't done anything wrong I want to prove that she is still the same manipulative B****h she has always been so I push her buttons on purpose. I think she is catching on so she doesn't always react anymore, more manipulation to get me upset even more. She will not let go of me, and I have told her it is over, but she lives in this false hope that maybe I will change my mind. She thinks God will change my heart. Why should I stay if I can't stand her?
I am gone now and have my freedom and at least I get to make my own choices now without her approval. I do love her but I will not let my guard down ever again to her. I told her that she will find someone else and will get over me. I will never again tell her I love her or she will think she has some hope. Wouldn't you know it, now she has lost the weight, and looks great, but she wouldn't do it for me when I asked her to? Besides if she cared why doesn't she ever call me why do I have to be the one to make all of the calls? She used to call non-stop, now I never hear from her unless it is about the kids. It is probably better that way because I don't want her to get any ideas in her head that I want to talk to her. She tries to be so nice, but I can see through that ploy too, eventually she will crack and I am not falling for it. I am just waiting for her to do something underhanded like getting my pay attached or something or harassing me at my job. People just don't change like that, she is only trying to suck me back into her world again. I am a much better person now, I have respect and people like me for myself, and I can come and go as I want to. She would only take that away from me again. Besides if I went back to her if I took a chance she would think she was right and that would make me weak again, and I will not be that man again. Maybe some of you left behind spouses don't get it. There is a reason we left you, do you ever look at yourselves and your own actions or just have continual pity parties about how badly you were treated. Stop acting like you didn't see this coming. I never committed adultery, I didn't steal or lie or use drugs or become an alcoholic or beat my wife.
I went to work every day, I spent time with my children, and I handed over my pay check. All I wanted was to be heard and loved and noticed and to stop being treated like a stranger in my own house. I guess my expectations are this, why should I not feel like the victim? Why does everyone feel sorry for her and the kids?
It was my wife’s job to take care of everything in the house. She had the luxury of staying home with the children that was not the issue. She expected me to buy flowers and romance her but none of my attempts were ever good enough. I finally told her to buy them for herself, she had the check book. She should have bettered herself, got an education or a job instead of living her life through mine. When she offered to get a job it was always something stupid like in a store as a clerk or at Target. My wife is not stupid, but never amounted to anything other than a housewife. She spent the money on the kids and the house, never bought nice things to make herself look good, hardly wore make up, just a real frump. I work with beautiful women and my wife was an embarrassment to me. My words were not abusive, but she didn't get it. I would end up yelling at her because she refused to listen to me. I begged her to change and she refused to. Now she wears the tight jeans and the fancy clothes that are bought with my money but she didn't do it for me and I begged for years. I would have liked to show her off but I was ashamed of how she looked. She used to be beautiful and sexy and she let herself go. I always apologized when she would start crying and I did feel bad for her, but she should have taken a hint.
I thought my telling her that I found her unattractive she would want to go to the gym and make an effort, and yes she did go, but not consistently like I did. We could have worked out together, but she said she was embarrassed to do that in front of me, I did try. She started covering herself up, and never let me see her body anymore because she said I made her feel ugly. That was not my intent. I will admit I probably handled that the wrong way she was never really that fat, but I wanted her to look like she did before. I will apologize for that I will admit when I am wrong.
I will also admit that I am jealous that she doesn't act like she wants me anymore and is moving on, but she still acts like she cares about me and that makes me madder than hell. Is she a martyr? It would be easier to divorce her if she hated me. As for the children, I do love them and I am in their lives as much as I can be. They know I love them and they will understand more when they are older. I am not trying to make you people mad, and in answer to your question I do not know if my wife posts here or not. She has the books, I have seen them at the house. I am not sure at this point why I am still so angry as it is a year since I left her. I do have a life but I don't think she will ever just go away. And yes I do feel guilty. But I cannot undo what I have done I have come too far now and made a life for myself without her in it. I also know she will throw this in my face for the rest of my life and that is not how I want to live anymore.
I wasn't always like that with my wife but she would push and push until I would finally explode. She was the strong one and the only way for me to be stronger was to rip her apart it was the only way to get her to shut her mouth. I have said some bad things to her and she knows I only said them in anger. Now she doesn't respond anymore but I am sure she is seething underneath.
I do admit she wanted us to go to counselling together but I knew it would be another way for her to bash me. She went by herself. My friend never treated me that way my wife did and therefore there was much respect for her. My friend was also unhappy in her marriage and we were able to be a comfort to each other. My friend encouraged me to be happy and that I deserved to be my own person but my wife would never do this. My wife could not understand this concept and kept accusing me of having an affair until I finally left. It was too much stress.
I would return to the marriage if I knew that her changes were real but I have known this woman for a very long time and I doubt she can keep up the act for too much longer. I haven't filed for a divorce because I cannot afford a lawyer right now but I am saving for one. She said she would not fight me on this but she refuses to file. I am angry with her because the whole marriage has been about her and the kids.
I know the concept of this board and I too hate the idea of divorce but I wanted someone to understand that sometimes there are just too many problems to overcome. I am not a bad person I am a realist.
About the books you ask of I know that she is working very hard on trying to win me back but again I do not really understand her reasons for trying when I have told her over and over again the relationship is now dead and the marriage is over. Look I know she has made great strides to change the way she does things and I do enjoy her more but I have seen her when pushed go back to the old ways. I admit I do push her just to see what she will do. That is wrong but I have to know just how sincere she really is.
This woman really destroyed me and IF I were to ever consider changing my mind I would need a guarantee and that my friend is impossible because nobody can do that. My wife was better than me at the finances and she did ask me to help her but it really wasn't my thing. BUT why should I need to ask her for money when I was the one working? I walked around without any money and needed her permission to use the ATM. She decided who got what and how the money was spent. Yes she always gave me what I needed and paid all of the bills there was always food in the house and those things were good but I was not a child. In retrospect I should have been more patient with her. I should have made her feel better about herself but she didn't give me compliments either. I know when I looked good she said nothing. When I asked her about this she said that she didn't want to inflate my ego anymore. I know she was tired and I should have asked about her day but I really didn't want to hear about it. I am being honest I really didn't care to know about this one or that one. I wanted to talk about me and my day.
Now she listens to me and acts like she is interested in what I have to say. The woman actually listens to my suggestions and follows my advice and that makes me even madder.
So many years were wasted because she couldn't grasp this simple thing.
So how would I take steps forward without giving her false hope? I do not want to hurt her but I am still so unsure. I did call my kids last night and asked to speak to my wife. She seemed really happy to hear from me, maybe too happy and it scared me. I don't want to get sucked back in again. But it was nice to have someone ask me about my day and my job and even ask me what I ate for dinner. I miss that part of her. I will admit that she didn't make any of her usual suggestions about my life and she seemed interested in what I had to say.
I had to end the call I suddenly got to feeling really anxious and made an excuse to get off of the phone. I lay awake all night thinking of my family and my wife and how much we have hurt each other in different ways. I pictured her face when I once ripped her to shreds as she was trying to apologize to me, that look still haunts me. I pictured her face when she tried to convince me to have sex with her and how I turned her down flat telling her that I would never touch her again, and how she repulsed me. She sobbed like a baby and I just laughed at her and left. I just don't see how we can get past this point.
Let a man be a man and do his job. Stop doing it for him and bailing him out where is your self-respect? Stop being such an f-ing doormat. I did the same thing because I knew how desperate she was that she would never say NO to me. But she did and she stood firm and I hated her for it but I respected her. She made me stand up and take notice. She in some ways made me feel like a man again and she was also the one who took away my manhood, does any of this make sense to you?
She really has done her homework and she is not going to get me to respond in a negative way to my diatribe. Something tells me the woman both protests too much. I admit that when I began posting here it was because I had many issues that needed to be dealt with, and I am still working on them. I am making steps forward to my family. I am not going to pretend that my wife was perfect and I was the (censored]. She had many issues throughout our marriage that she refused to acknowledge. And yes she has changed a lot but I am still cautious as I do not want to go back the darkness. And just for your information I am seriously considering asking my wife if she would like to go to marriage counselling with me to see if there is anything that we can salvage from the wreckage. I am not going around spreading my negativity anymore and I am sorry if you feel that way.
You admit yourself on your posts that you are unhappy but why are you unhappy really? You also have a lot of anger and hostility about the situation you are in. A situation you have no control over a situation you have chosen to accept. We could work together if you like I think we are both on opposite sides of the coin
I knew that someone was going to ask about the stages and they are pretty accurate to a point. The depression is the worst part of it all to realize that life isn't all it is supposed to be and to look at everything you have done wrong and all of the people that have been hurt and to know that you did all that. About being happy that is a crock of [censored]. I thought I would be happy but I never was truly happy. Knowing that the reasons I left my family were simply stupid and childish. How can anyone be happy knowing that their family is suffering and going without and that their children are crying and your wife is crying and that everyone around knows what an [censored] you are? How can anyone truly be happy when they have completely [censored] up everything for the sake of making a statement or getting a piece of ass on the side.
It isn't worth it none of it has been worth it. The guilt consumes me daily and no matter what I do it will always be there knowing that I was a SOB who walked away and deserted my family for what…. Nothing. I got my space and my freedom and I eat alone and sleep alone. I do not give a [censored] if you think your husband is happy he is not and is only lying to you and himself and to anyone who will listen. I have money and there is nothing I can buy to make up for what I have done to my family.
No I am not divorced neither of us have filed. My wife still wears her rings I don't wear mine, my wife has it in a safe place for me. Her weight loss had nothing to do with my changing my mind, but it is nice to see her looking so good. I have never stopped thinking about my wife, the good the bad and the ugly. Yes I now think of ML to her often but have not done anything about it. I left home about 13 months or so ago. I did tell my wife before I left what I needed but I was ignored over and over again. The OW wanted more than I was willing to give let’s leave it at that.
Summary from Happy Again
There is so much I want to say but have no idea where to begin.so things might be a little out of order but I will try to keep things into perspective. So much of what happened to me and the things that went on in my head i have yet to understand. It just seemed that I started feeling very dissatisfied with my life.so much responsibility to care for the wife and kids and mortgages and my company. I wanted some time just for myself without feeling pressured.
When my dad died it was almost like something clicked in my head that I needed to act NOW. Life was too short and this was going to have to be my time or else I was going to die young just like my dad without ever having done anything with my life. Allie (his wife) is so sensible and she began to annoy me. The things she said would grate on my nerves. For some stupid reason she did make sense but this was not the time for making sense or for logic. I bought a condo without her knowing so I could have a place to go and be alone. I needed my space without her frills and flowers everywhere. I began to go there to do my work but also began to sleep over at times. I never had a PA. I went to classmates.com and found some old high school friends. I also found my ex-girlfriend from high school. We began emailing and then im-ing.it was all so superficial and so so stupid.at first it was like we were back in high school catching up and talking about our mutual friends. Then she began getting more personal and I trusted her. She was going through the same dissatisfaction in her life with her husband. We fed off of each other’s misery and each time I would be at home I began to feel the need to get out as fast as I could. Only my friend understood what i was going through. Allie was too preoccupied with the kids and the house to notice how miserable I was. Or so I thought.
Looking back at everything I never gave Allie a chance to understand. I just assumed she wouldn’t; like what I said. My wife is so sensible and predictable. She is a good woman and I don’t think I wanted her to tell me that I was being foolish or what I was doing was wrong. I made a huge mess of things by turning everything around in my head and I began blaming Allie for everything wrong in my life.
I began to get nasty with her. Find excuses to yell at the poor woman. Every time my friend would piss me off I took it out on my wife. I couldn’t let my friend know the [censored] in my head after all she thought I was a really nice guy and couldn’t understand why Allie didn’t appreciate me or take the time to understand me. I lied and I can see how much worse I made things by making up excuses to call my friend just to have someone to talk to. My biggest regret is that I refused to let Allie into my life. I didn’t want her to rearrange it but I did want her to understand it.
The DB thread is now purged – so further postings are unavailable. Happy Again did reconcile with his wife….and thus became HAPPY AGAIN!
