Short story: Wife admitted to a 1 year affair a couple of months ago. Said she didn't know what she wanted to do...and asked for time and space. After about 2 weeks of being an emotional mess I stopped myself. I realize what she does is out of my control and I started focusing on me in a big way. Then I discovered this site and realized I was already doing a lot of the actions advised on here...and started doing many more from what I read. Things at home were actually going along fine...even though I know whe continues to see the A partner. Fast forward to now... wife tells me that she has ended the affair for good and wants to work on marriage. She has since gone into complete silence toward me. Asking for time to grieve and for me to leave her alone while she copes with this. I understand the emotions she is feeling as I believe she was in a very limerent relationship. What do I do now? I hate seeing her sad...it's my instinct to try and comfort and help. Do I just continue on with the actions that got me to this point...or is there another action while she grieves the end of the A?? As I type this questions...I think the answer becomes evident...but would be nice to hear from others who have "been there". Thanks in advance.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
You give her the time and space she is asking for and you listen and validate when she talks to you. What are your ages? Kids and how many? How long have you been married? Who is the affair partner?
This sounds promising but as a long time member of this board I have found that things don't usually turn around that easily. Only time will tell.
Short story: Wife admitted to a 1 year affair a couple of months ago. Said she didn't know what she wanted to do...and asked for time and space. After about 2 weeks of being an emotional mess I stopped myself. I realize what she does is out of my control and I started focusing on me in a big way. Then I discovered this site and realized I was already doing a lot of the actions advised on here...and started doing many more from what I read. Things at home were actually going along fine...even though I know whe continues to see the A partner. Fast forward to now... wife tells me that she has ended the affair for good and wants to work on marriage. She has since gone into complete silence toward me. Asking for time to grieve and for me to leave her alone while she copes with this. I understand the emotions she is feeling as I believe she was in a very limerent relationship. What do I do now? I hate seeing her sad...it's my instinct to try and comfort and help. Do I just continue on with the actions that got me to this point...or is there another action while she grieves the end of the A?? As I type this questions...I think the answer becomes evident...but would be nice to hear from others who have "been there". Thanks in advance.
After my W's EA in 2005 she went through a deep depression/sadness at the loss of the AP. All I could do is work on me, my 180s, detach, and GAL. I doubled down on detaching and GAL at the time, and let her work through her emotions.
One word of caution, she eventually reached back out to the AP. I think it was one last "is it really over" moment. Do not be surprised if she does this. This is nothing less than a break up, so the usual break up emotions come into play.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Welcome to the forum DC. You need your time too. Time to change yourself. Time is a key factor in all our sitches. Your W needs to come clean from her waywardness. And that takes time and self discovery. I was on her position some time ago. She needs to be free of AP addiction. So be prepared for high and low cycles of any kind of behavior. Can you control that? No, it’s her inner journey so you must let her free and work on yourself.
Has she shown any kind of regrets? Who ended the AP? Why?
Keep reading DC, keep learning. There’s a long road ahead. Start walking.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
You can work on yourself, take care of your children, etc, but the best thing you can do for her and your MR right now is to respect what she told you. She has to process/get through whatever she is going through by herself.
Yep, don't "comfort" her. She should be comforting you. She betrayed you. Has she been offering any help to you to make you believe she really ended it and wants to fully commit to your marriage?
How old are you two, how long have you been married, any kids, etc, religious, etc?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thanks so much for the quick responses! I'm sure you already know...but hearing from others that have been there is an amazing comfort. I'm very impressed with the number of you who have already replied...very, very helpful and comforting. I'll try to answer all the questions here:
We both have kids from previous marriages...none together. Most are grown and out of the house...a couple of her kids remain at home with us. We have been together for 6 years...married nearly 4. The AP was a co worker at a small job she had. She quit the job immeadiately after admitting to the A.
I'm expecting her to reach back out to the AP. She claims she made the decision to end it for all the good in our marriage and she felt we would both regret if we didn't try everything. I had been giving her ZERO pressure or suggestions to end it. I had completely stepped back and never even spoke of it unless she did. She has always claimed to be still deeply in love with me throughout the affair and she has never acted any other way - besides the obvious. She has shown a lot of regret thoughout the process. Not sure how much I believe is real.
I do believe she ended it. I don't have confidence that it will stick. She told the AP to never contact her but stopped short of blocking numbers or disconnecting on FB. I imagine he is trying. She told me he blamed me for her decision?? and was mad at me?? But I really don't care how he feels.
The only thing she offered to help be believe anything had changed (besides telling me) was when she recenlty worked late. This is normally when she would disappear for periods of time. She told me to come to her office, to call her, to check her online time card, etc. She was asking what she has to do to help me feel any small amount of trust to start moving forward. She has said she needs to grieve over this alone before she can work on our marriage. Everything I have read on limerence has her affair checking every box. Her affair partner has never been married, and lives with his parents (at 40+ years of age). She told me he's a financial mess and has a dead end job. My wife and I are well know in our community and share a similar purpose. We do a lot of work with children and families together. If our marriage ended, so would all of that. We have close relationships with all our kids and family. We are financially stable and if she walked away, that would put much more of a burden on her in all those areas. (I've met with my atty) For her not to see all of that is illogical...thus limerent. IMO.
I think that answers any questions...and then some! Seriously, just reading this posts and realizing how many have already been through this before is so calming and empowering. I have only confided this journey in one other person. I, for the first time in a long time, don't feel completely alone. Thank you!
Great advice and suggestions...I will read and re-read. Some great quotes too... "long road ahead so start walking".
Yes leave her be. She is grieving OM, which is patently unfair to you and your M and honestly ridiculous behavior for a married woman. Unfortunately you've got to bear it until she recovers. Since she expressed interest in WORKING on the M, then after she gets over it I would highly recommend you seek out MC. There are reasons she had an A to begin with and you have to start working through those issues to have a chance of future success in the M. Good luck and keep posting!
Oh...and CADET. Thanks for the initial post and the links. I will read them all. Nice to have a starting place with an organized group of articles. Thanks.
Oh...and CADET. Thanks for the initial post and the links. I will read them all. Nice to have a starting place with an organized group of articles. Thanks.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Oh...and CADET. Thanks for the initial post and the links. I will read them all. Nice to have a starting place with an organized group of articles. Thanks.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
More great advice. Had not thought of that. Thanks again.
This site helped me navigate my sitch when I divorced back in 2009. Been living as blended family with my lady since 11. Her D(16) lives with us full time, I have 2 kids(16,18) going back and forth weekly with their mother. My oldest(19) is away at college.
My 2 cents:
Forgiveness on your part is key for your personal growth. Remove blame from your thought process. Focus on your personal growth. Reflect back on what your role was in the end of your first marriage. Reflect back on your part off the issues that lead your current wife to stray. Decide what changes you would like to make to your behavior and belief systems. Come up with a plan and execute the plan.
Read as much as you can here. One thing I highly recommend is researching Non-negotiables and coming up with the list.
Things you need to do are counter-intuitive.
My first question:
1) how did you find out about A?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Forgiveness on your part is key for your personal growth. Remove blame from your thought process. Focus on your personal growth. Reflect back on what your role was in the end of your first marriage. Reflect back on your part off the issues that lead your current wife to stray. Decide what changes you would like to make to your behavior and belief systems. Come up with a plan and execute the plan.
Read as much as you can here. One thing I highly recommend is researching Non-negotiables and coming up with the list.
Thanks Ready2Change! Good advice. I haven't looked that far back yet...still working on (hopefully) getting past the affair. I'm not sure I can...but I'm willing to try so I don't regret hasty decisions later.
Can you tell me more about "non-negotiables"? What exactly do you mean?
To answer your question: I had a feeling about the affair and confronted her. She admitted to it.
One word of caution, she eventually reached back out to the AP. I think it was one last "is it really over" moment. Do not be surprised if she does this. This is nothing less than a break up, so the usual break up emotions come into play.
Steve85 - quick question. How did you respond when you found out she went reached back out to the AP? Like I said, I'm almost expecting it. I could see myself throwing in the towel at that point.
Can you tell me more about "non-negotiables"? What exactly do you mean?
These are the deal breakers for you. You express these to your W when she is begging you to take her back. Timing is very important.
Most start like this:
Confident H:"W, I am not sure how I feel about what you have just said. If I were to conciser staying married to you, at the MINIMUM I would insist on:
1) Zero contact with OM. 2) Full transparency. Phone password, Email passwords, FB passwords. Full access to phone anytime. 3) IC . . . 7)
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
How did you respond when you found out she went reached back out to the AP? Like I said, I'm almost expecting it. I could see myself throwing in the towel at that point.
Be prepared for it. As soon as you get proof:
H:"W, you know what, I think our relationship has run it's course. You are obviously in love with someone else and I think it is best if we pack up your stuff so you can be with him. I will get the D paperwork started so we can both get on with our lives"
This is where the begging and crying may happen.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Ready@Change... Thanks for the responses. I do like your no-nonsense approach to giving answers and advice. To clarify the 2 statements that don't line up. She claimed to end the affair one day....and then asked for "time to grieve". We still live in the same house...but communication has been very minimal. Silence was the wrong word...COLD would have been a better choice.
I just got done reading a whole bunch of Sandi's post about WW...great stuff. Boy do I have a lot to learn! UGH!
Question for now: Which one of the DB books should I read first??
Been doing a decent job of the 180's and the rules from here...with an occasional hiccup or moment of weakness. Wife said she ended affair last week. Since then she's been very, very distant. This follows a period of about 8 weeks of her being "not sure' which direction she wanted to go. We were actually functioning much better and closer BEFORE she ended the affair.
Been reading all the links provided and got educated on the "nice guy syndrome" or whatever Sandi calls it. I'm guilty. I look back at the last 4 communications from my W... 1. Can you pick up milk. 2. Can you stop by and pay that bill. 3. Can you go to (step sons) meeting at school tomorrow. 4. Can you drive (other step son) to concert.
Last night was Wednesday which is our weekly date night...which we have continued thru this all. Nothing. She worked late. Came home and actually asked me "are you OK? You've felt very distant the last couple of days." I almost laughed out loud. I just said "yes. Just giving you space".
I'm trying hard to stop all "spying" on her....but it's hard. I just want the recon on if she has indeed stopped the affair. I see a text on the phone bill from her to him last night. UGH.
So I wake up this morning just pissed with her and myself! A big part of me just wants to be DONE with all of this drama. I'm so tired of it all. And now we have the Xmas weekend coming. The only member of my family around here is my adult daughter...who I will get to see. The rest will be her family. How bad would it be if I just say I don't want to be part of her family get together? Just very frustrated this morning and feel like I need to step up say something or do something.
Let me have it...talk me off the ledge, or push!
Last edited by job; 12/20/1801:33 PM. Reason: removed link for this thread
And now as soon as I typed the last message...she texts "it did feel nice to come to bed...". She had been sleeping on couch all week and did come into bed in the middle of the night last night. I'm guessing it's the guilt of reaching out to the AP last night....but I woke up angry. How do I react to THAt?
I have merged your two threads together since your original thread had not reached the 100 posting/reply limit. You can also change your subject line at any time within a thread.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi there. I'm younger, no kids, but your sitch sounds fairly similar to where mine was in May-July of this year. It was before I got here. I probably got here too late but you might have a better chance. Look through my threads to see what NOT to do, and stick to the advice you get here. Do it wholeheartedly and without delay, and you might be surprised at how things turn out.
Not sure if you have a copy of DR yet but if/when you do, you'll get to a part where she says that holding together a M when the other person is reluctant to end the A requires "courage, stamina, and blind determination." Hope you have it in you.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Been reading all the links provided and got educated on the "nice guy syndrome" or whatever Sandi calls it. I'm guilty. I look back at the last 4 communications from my W... 1. Can you pick up milk. 2. Can you stop by and pay that bill. 3. Can you go to (step sons) meeting at school tomorrow. 4. Can you drive (other step son) to concert.
NGS, or "nice guy syndrome" is from the book "No More Mister Nice Guy". It's one we frequently recommend as a companion book to DB and DR for the men who wind up here because many of them (us) are or were afflicted with NGS. The title of the book is misleading, it's not about quitting being nice to people. Rather, it's about how outwardly "nice" guys are often passive/aggressive in their behavior and wreck their relationships through covert contracts.
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I'm trying hard to stop all "spying" on her....but it's hard. I just want the recon on if she has indeed stopped the affair. I see a text on the phone bill from her to him last night. UGH.
If she's still in contact with OM then the A is not over. I don't care how insignificant the contact is, that's like a heroin addict saying "no I'm clean, I only did a little bit this time."
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So I wake up this morning just pissed with her and myself! A big part of me just wants to be DONE with all of this drama. I'm so tired of it all.
That's because you feel like you've lost control of your life and you are desperate to reassert control. DON'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW. This is a dangerous time for you, if you act rashly you will do things you regret. Take a long-term view. It's going to take months to sort this out, don't try to rush it. Give her time and space and focus on yourself. Get out. GAL.
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And now we have the Xmas weekend coming. The only member of my family around here is my adult daughter...who I will get to see. The rest will be her family. How bad would it be if I just say I don't want to be part of her family get together? Just very frustrated this morning and feel like I need to step up say something or do something.
This is just a suggestion- ask her to sit down and talk. Tell her that given where things are right now, you don't feel comfortable being around her family and you're thinking that maybe you should bow out of her family get-together and ask her how she would feel about that. Normally we would say just don't go, but your situation is different because your W has at least verbally said she's back in the M. It's unclear whether she really is all-in or not just yet, so you've got to tread carefully.
Thanks AnotherStander. All great points and what I needed to hear this morning. Especially the DON'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW advice. You may have saved me as I've had the phone in my hand many times today.
Another question for all: I know the rules of DB say "Do not spy on spouse". And I want to stop doing this badly and I actually had stopped for a couple of weeks until she said she ended the affair. I feel the need to have the recon on her activities. However, everytime I find something...my blood pressure and anxiety go up....and I have to talk myself in to not just giving up. Or worse, call her and angrily confront her like I used too. But, it's like a "tell" in poker...if I'm sure I know what cards she is holding...it helps me understand her actions. From past experience DB'rs...should I stop spying...or can it be useful knowledge??
I've already learned a bunch from your story and the posts...and the posts from others on your thread.
Glad to hear it. Unfortunately the point you're at now is the point I was at MUCH earlier in my sitch, long before I got to DB. So you won't find all of those details in my threads. They're in my head and I'd be happy to share them with you if/when things come up.
Piecing is when you've ALREADY reconciled. You're piecing your relationship back together. Before that you have to get to reconciliation. Before that there has to be a definitive end to the A. Before THAT you have to get to detachment. Before THAT you have to GAL. That's what it comes down to.
Things may or may not have turned out differently for me if I had gotten here sooner. Time will tell. Other advice sites out there take a stronger stance and will tell you that "I'm not sure" is WW-speak for "I want both and there's no reason I can't have both." A poster here named Zues said that "maybe" is the same as "no" or at least you should treat it as such because otherwise you're dumping resources where they won't make a difference.
I agree that if he isn't dead then he's still on her mind. The way I interpret my sitch, W got a new boyfriend and fell in love with him. She had already "broken up" with me in her heart. So she would have as much trouble detaching from him as I have had trouble detaching from her. It's HARD. And it was even harder when she was there. So if OM works with her or sees her regularly, you can bet that it's not easy for her to let go.
ESPECIALLY NOT when you're there saying (with words or actions), "Hey, choose me, I'm a good boy, I'll do what you want." She won't choose that. She already decided that that wasn't enough, or else there would not have been an A.
At this point, for your sake, I'm happy to tell you what I did and how I see it now, why I think it wasn't the best choice, etc. But listen to the advice from the pros, they know a LOT better and they've seen this play out so many times.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
everytime I find something...my blood pressure and anxiety go up....and I have to talk myself in to not just giving up. Or worse, call her and angrily confront her like I used too. But, it's like a "tell" in poker...if I'm sure I know what cards she is holding...it helps me understand her actions. From past experience DB'rs...should I stop spying...or can it be useful knowledge??
STOP SNOOPING. You will fill your head with your confusion and your heart with pain. You gain almost nothing by having intel and it sets you up to do impulsive things that could cause irreparable damage. SNOOPING = CONTROL = EXPECTATIONS = FAILURE.
STOP STOP STOP.
Stop it.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Don't snoop. It just hurts you. My WW still thinks I am going through her stuff. lol. I am not, because I already know she is having an A and its in the open now. I havent told OMW or her work though. Don't know if I will or not.
My WW works with her OM, but long distance. My WW could detach from OM. WW hasnt confessed her love for him to me, but I know she loves him because I have heard her say it to him and him to her (snooping).
My WW is dead set on "Its over, I am not cheating because I kicked you to the curb for OM". WW's are nuts man. My WW won't do anything though. Says she wants D, but never does it. Says she wants out of the home, but never does it.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Got it. No more snooping! But what do I do with the intel I already know (her texting the OM last night)? If she continues to lie and tell me it's over and there have been NC...what do I say?
Got it. No more snooping! But what do I do with the intel I already know (her texting the OM last night)? If she continues to lie and tell me it's over and there have been NC...what do I say?
Are you reconciling? I don't think you are from what I read. Remember, don't believe what they say or do. Your WW is still wayward. So treat her accordingly. Detach, GAL, 180, NC.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
If she continues to lie and tell me it's over and there have been NC...what do I say?
Just say W we both know that you are not telling the truth. Don't tell her how you know. Warning: She is must likely gonna get very angry with you because she knows you know.
Warning: She is must likely gonna get very angry with you because she knows you know.
And she'll try to figure out how you found out. Then she'll lock down those sources, and blame you for being the absolute worst, most paranoid, most controlling, most privacy-invading jerkface that ever walked the face of the earth. She thinks you're harshing her buzz.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Plenty of good advice, but I'll reiterate this: she is not back in the marriage. Don't believe it for a second. I've been through the ups and downs and been lied to a hundred times. If she is still in contact with OM she is not committed. Read my threads, I've been off and on so many times with my W. I believed her, I didn't hold her feet to the fire. And look what it did for me: I'm still doing the same old stuff.
I'd just go to her family gathering if I was you. That's my opinion. Go make the best of it, but don't think it means she is yours again.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
^^^ she is NOT back in the marriage. Every statement and every action is SUSPECT. She is playing you for time, cake-eating, getting the best of both worlds without any of the trouble.
Turn it around. She has you as a backup in case OM falls through. Reality: OM should be the backup in case YOU fall through. You deserve better than sloppy seconds.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Again...I truly do appreciate the advice from those who have lived it before me.
burned - Is that bad or good?? What is my response when she gets angry? Just remain calm and stick to the script?
ovrrnbw - I don't believe she is back in the M. I've calmed since this morning...so I do plan to go to the family gathering. I enjoy her family and don't want to let her kids think anything is wrong at Christmastime.
Here's a scenario that I don't know how to respond to. Her family has a nearby vacation property and she frequently goes there to getaway with the girls. However, she has on more than one occasion...gone there and been picked up by the OM and taken to his place for the night. She admitted to this when she admitted the A. Since then I have told her that I can no longer enable her behavior by staying home with her kids while she goes away for the night. I know she's going to ask again. How do I best answer her request to stay home with the stepkids while she spends the night away?
Well, it's bad that she isn't all-in in the M but that's FOREVER far away from now, from where you're standing. Set that aside.
I'd say it's bad if she flips out at you and you take it seriously. Destroys how you feel about yourself. So learn to detach and grow some duck feathers so it rolls off you like water off a duck.
I'd also say it's bad to lose your source of intel. In my own sitch, I knew she "went back to him" (i.e., had never left him) because I tracked her to the motel. Brought it up in MC. Bye bye tracker. A week later OM's W finds out. Suddenly W is all lovey-dovey and seems to be wanting to R. Two weeks after that, BAM, she shuts it all down.
My very strong suspicion is that the final "BAM" was that OM split up with his W and my W was then free to move in for the kill. And because I don't have my intel sources, I'll never know. And on those painfully lonely nights, all I can do is wonder: did she leave me for him, or for nobody at all? Because the latter is far worse, in my book.
Last edited by burned; 12/20/1806:56 PM.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
I know she's going to ask again. How do I best answer her request to stay home with the stepkids while she spends the night away?
There is nothing you can do. You can't control her. The only person you can control is yourself. Now if her spending the night with him is a deal breaker for you then that is another story. Is it s deal breaker for you?
I don't think it's a deal breaker yet. But my point was enabling her behavior. If I refuse to stay home myself and watch her kids...then it makes it much more difficult on her to accomplish. Feels like I should say no based on avoiding the NGS and enabling her??
I don't think it's a deal breaker yet. But my point was enabling her behavior. If I refuse to stay home myself and watch her kids...then it makes it much more difficult on her to accomplish. Feels like I should say no based on avoiding the NGS and enabling her??
Just be sure that your motivation for "not enabling" isn't a way to control the outcome. It's not that you're not enabling her so that she will be more likely to come back. It's that you're not enabling her because you're a man who respects himself too much to let others take advantage of him that blatantly.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Thanks for the responses! Makes a lot of sense when you think of it those ways. I wanna go back to when my biggest worry was which QB to start on my fantasy team! This [censored]...
I am really sorry. Unfortunately your life is never going to be the same. The good news your actions will determine whether your life will be better or worse.
This is just a suggestion- ask her to sit down and talk. Tell her that given where things are right now, you don't feel comfortable being around her family and you're thinking that maybe you should bow out of her family get-together and ask her how she would feel about that. Normally we would say just don't go, but your situation is different because your W has at least verbally said she's back in the M. It's unclear whether she really is all-in or not just yet, so you've got to tread carefully.
I like this.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Got it. No more snooping! But what do I do with the intel I already know (her texting the OM last night)? If she continues to lie and tell me it's over and there have been NC...what do I say?
See my last post. There is more you need to learn to say.
Here is a question for you to think about:
Do you want to share your wife with another man?
If your answer is no. What choices do you have?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
^^^ she is NOT back in the marriage. Every statement and every action is SUSPECT. She is playing you for time, cake-eating, getting the best of both worlds without any of the trouble.
Turn it around. She has you as a backup in case OM falls through. Reality: OM should be the backup in case YOU fall through. You deserve better than sloppy seconds.
Agree.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Of course I don't want to share my wife with another man. That's why I'm reading everything I can on this site. Trying to do the right thing based on what I learn from it. It's so hard to get to the point where I'm not doing it to get her back...but doing it for me. That's gonna take some time.
Everything I read on here says remain calm, act instead of react...follow the "rules". But some of the responses make me feel like some are suggesting that I should deliver an ultimatum? Or simply just walk away?
Of course I don't want to share my wife with another man. That's why I'm reading everything I can on this site. Trying to do the right thing based on what I learn from it. It's so hard to get to the point where I'm not doing it to get her back...but doing it for me. That's gonna take some time.
Everything I read on here says remain calm, act instead of react...follow the "rules". But some of the responses make me feel like some are suggesting that I should deliver an ultimatum? Or simply just walk away?
Its not an ultimatum. Its a boundary. Its not a boundary for your WW, its for you. Go read the boundaries thread. You don't need to repeat your boundaries over and over to your WW. Once is enough.
Detachment from them is their consequence for their behavior. Giving WW an ultimatum will not stop the A. You do have to make the decision if you want to end it or not. You have to decide when you are done.
If you are a model DB and WW keeps on going forever and ever, you have to decide when you have had enough. The final act of LRT is you ending your MR. That is when have made significant changes in yourself, you can recognize these changes and have consistently kept them up and nothing has changed between you and your WW.
I think a lot of people give themselves about a year. I think thats about accurate. I am going to actually take measure of everything in March if this even lasts until then. I was going to move out actually and asked WW to refi the house and buy me out. WW agreed and then waffled. So at this point I am going to continue DB and IHS.
If March comes around I will see if anything at all has changed, if I have bettered myself and been consistent on the DB and know that I am doing well and ok emotionally, I may initiate D.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
You've been here for 48 hours. It's not going to make any sense for a LONG time.
My advice, don't put too much thought into what you SHOULD do. But listen to what you SHOULDN'T do. Memorize Sandi's rules, literally.
ACTIONS, not words. An ultimatum is just words. Weak, needy. ACTIONS speak louder. You don't say "I'm leaving if you don't change." You just do an about-face, forward march. Metaphorically speaking, of course.
You do it by GAL, primarily. You do it by 180s. You do it by the way you "carry" yourself. Suddenly you feel great because you joined a gym and pounded the spit out of a punching bag. You get home, W says "blah blah blah I'm on my way to the cabin with my girls" and you think to yourself, "Meh, have fun. Only I know how to really please you, but suit yourself." Then you walk to the freezer and start eating the ice cream right out of the tub.
Last edited by burned; 12/20/1810:07 PM.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Ok. I read the boundaries thread. Trying to understand. So if she says she wants an overnight with the girls....would a good response be: That’s fine if you choose to stay away overnight. But you’ll need to find somewhere for your kid(s)to go...because I won’t be here to do it. Is that a correct boundary? Or not?
Partway there, I think. But it needs to be more “I” focused. It’s about what you will and won’t allow her to do to you. Break it down to the basics: “It hurts me when someone stabs me, and I don’t like cleaning up the blood. I’m asking you to not stab me. If you try to stab me, I will run the other way to protect myself.”
“It’s hard for me to make plans when I have to watch the kids. It’s important to me to spend time doing things I enjoy. From now on, please tell me at least a week in advance when you plan to go out with the girls. If I don’t have enough advanced warning, I’ll just have to hire a babysitter.”
I’m NOT a boundary expert but I think that’s how it goes. And obviously if you say something like that, prepare for some backlash. “WTF, you always watch the kids when I go out with the girls!” Possible response: “Well, W, I realized that I haven’t been doing enough things for myself, so...let’s figure out a solution that works for both of us.”
Always focus on “I.”
Edit: since you’re new here, you may not realize how bad@ss that comes across. She may be angry but she will respect it. Whatever she says after that, let it roll off your back. Go eat more ice cream and remind yourself that you’re a bad@ss. Not a jack@ss, mind you. Just an awesome guy who knows his own worth and doesn’t let a lying cheater define his worth.
Last edited by burned; 12/21/1812:20 AM.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Hey guys...I’m trying here. As you know, it’s a learn as you live situation. Doing my best here.
Tell me how you’d handle this... she came home tonight and started asking about the plans for the holiday weekend. Giving me choices as to the schedule. Then threw in “we’ll me relative doesn’t have her kids on Christmas Day...so I might go see her.” I simply said...if that’s how you want to spend Christmas Day. If she thinks it’s a good idea to be apart on Christmas Day...then I want her to dress in black and go play in nighttime traffic. But I struggle with the correct response.
If she goes thru with this...then it’s clearly time to move on.
If she goes thru with this...then it’s clearly time to move on.
That’s a decision based on an emotion and I am confident that you won’t feel the same way by the end of tomorrow.
Always remember that there’s not much you can do to make this better (not directly, at least), but there’s always something you can do to make it worse. It never hurts to wait a bit and think things through.
“If that’s how you want to spend Christmas” is a good ATTITUDE but when you say it that way it sounds kind of passive-aggressive. You might as well let out a big sigh and frown at her.
Next time, maybe, “OK, sounds good.” Smile, and go do something else. Message: I don’t control you, you can do whatever you want. But I’m living my life. You’re welcome to join me, but I’ll be happy whether or not you do. Use as few words as possible.
Circling back around: it IS clearly time to move on. Not literally, not yet. But in spirit. She’s already working on building her new life. Why aren’t you? The sooner she feels like you’re walking away, the better. You are a champion and you’re packing your bags because some other lady out there is gonna want a piece. You’re far too valuable to chase after someone who doesn’t want you.
Edit: you deserve extra credit for not taking that WW bait. Any response (including yours) is better than “Why, don’t you love me, don’t you want to be with me on Christmas?!” That’s what she was after, and that’s what she didn’t get. Be prepared for her to take it up a notch next time.
Last edited by burned; 12/21/1802:04 AM.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Tell me how you’d handle this... she came home tonight and started asking about the plans for the holiday weekend. Giving me choices as to the schedule.
H:"I am not sure. I will let you know my plans when I have decided"
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Then threw in “we’ll me relative doesn’t have her kids on Christmas Day...so I might go see her.”
H:"What time would you be leaving?"
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Sorry to hear of your sitch but you're at the right place, in the right hands.
DC, in my sitch, WW hasn't admitted openly she is involved in an A and I did some snooping in the beginning, which felt like crap. I used a location tracker, saw phone bills and later saw her installing apps after BD. I stopped it. People here helped me see my worth and I realized I was in a fog. I was asked if I knew more, would it change what I would be doing and my answer was no. I'd still be 180, detaching and GAL.
I think you're on the right track. Keep posting and asking questions. Also keep reading. I'm starting to branch away from marriage saving literature to self help and the power of self differentiation and self love. I discounted things early like how family of origin issues didn't apply to me right now but taking another look at it, it does. So I try to revisit posts and rethink things through. Burned also suggested I write stuff down outside of here to journal and help keep track of my progress. With a live in spouse I am a little reluctant to do that, for now, but it's a great idea I'm going to do soon. It can be a lot to take in. You have time. If you feel or think you need to say something important to her, feel free to come here first and share.
Snooping caused you to get angry because she lied to you, but more so because you want to believe her. Once you start to believe in the process and go through it, you will notice the change. Detach, believe nothing of what they say and 50 % of what they do. That change will have an effect on your sitch.
It's good that you are reading a lot of the info here. It's invaluable, really pay attention to what Sandi said About respect and the WW.
-Burned, that's two lols you got from me in this thread... I like how that boundary rolled off the tongue.
-R2C, great example because for me it's got impact, not a weak nut boundary. And many cases, less is best or least is beast?
H 49 , W 47 T 23, M 17 S11, S5 BD: 7/18 IHS: 7/18 - 3/19 Physically Separated: 3/19-4/19 Piecing: 4/19 - Current
You need to be respected there. If there´s no respect there´s nothing forward that, there´s no future MR. Set some boundaries, those are for you. You control yourself. W is ww, set her free. Once you set a boundary you must stick to it, get it? Stepping back shows weakness and those days are over for DC.
I want to start of this morning with sending all of you a huge THANK YOU! Finding this board, and those who are on it...has been a game changer for me. The simple feeling of being "not the only one" has completely changed my look at life thru this process and time. So, just know that your words are making a difference...a BIG difference. Thank you!!
I got a little too caught up in all of it yesterday...trying to figure it ALL out in one day. Breathing better today! Inhale...LET. Exhale...GO. Woke up calm this morning after a good nights sleep.
So here's my plan for the holiday weekend...and one question. Keep busy and work on GAL when possible. I have a little work to do tomorrow, a little shopping too. I have an old friend in town who I plan to meet up with at least once. Watch some football on Sunday (hopefully cash big in my Fantasy League, wish me luck!) My daughter and her friend will be coming over for dinner on Sunday (W can join if she wants). Breakfast/lunch with a friend on Monday. I will attend the family Christmas with my wife on Monday evening and have a good time whether I do or not!
As we discussed last night, Tuesday becomes the bump in the road. Remember, the W said "my family member doesn't have any kids on Christmas, so I may go see her." We all know what she's up to. So that leads to my question:
I have read and re-read the boundaries thread, and I still am struggling to get it. Is my response to W's statement a place for a boundary? Or is the suggested - "ok, have fun" response the best? Keep in mind there may be some child care request in order for her to leave. So would "OK, I have a chance to attend a Christmas Party with a friend...so that gives me a chance to go" be a better response. It would put the possbile burden of child care back on her...and make me feel stronger that the doormat I've been in the past #NGS.
Or is this the time to call her out respectfully saying "we both know you are lying and know exactly what you are trying to do here. You're free to do whatever you want, but I won't be here to watch (kid) today." and walk away.
As you can tell...I'm finding it hard understanding WHEN to use the rules/180s and WHEN to enforce a boundary.
I think where you are confused is that a boundary is something you put down and then YOU do something if she crosses it. For instance like a fence to keep people off of your property.
Or in this case I will not be in a relationship with you when you are in one with someone else.
None of this needs to be SAID.
Actions speak louder than words, so by your actions she will get the message. You can say it ONCE if you really feel the need to but have NO EXPECTATIONS that she will do anything other than spew venom at you.
A 180 is doing something differently than what you always do, like saying something and expecting/hoping she will change.
Better to keep mouth shut and let her wonder what is up with you.
You indicated that a affair is not a deal breaker so I think it's best to put the boundary on the back burner right now until you get your feet wet.
W: My friend doesn't have any kids so I am going to visit her. DC: Ok. Sounds like fun. W: can you watch the kids for me? DC; Sorry I have plans. W: Doing what? DC: hanging with some new friends I met
You've been getting some great advice, but I wanted to go back to this from a few pages ago:
Originally Posted by DC421
Another question for all: I know the rules of DB say "Do not spy on spouse". And I want to stop doing this badly and I actually had stopped for a couple of weeks until she said she ended the affair. I feel the need to have the recon on her activities. However, everytime I find something...my blood pressure and anxiety go up....and I have to talk myself in to not just giving up. Or worse, call her and angrily confront her like I used too. But, it's like a "tell" in poker...if I'm sure I know what cards she is holding...it helps me understand her actions. From past experience DB'rs...should I stop spying...or can it be useful knowledge??
OK so several people said not to snoop. The thing about snooping is when you snoop you get little snippets of info that can be hard to interpret. For example, maybe OM texts your W and says "I'm sorry for everything, I really want to see you again" and she replies "stop it, I never want to hear from you again and I am blocking your number." You look on your phone log and see she sent a message to OM. You think she's contacting him again, and you lay awake at night spinning a thousand different scenarios on why she contacted him, what she said, etc. You don't have the whole picture so snooping just gives you little pieces you don't know what to make of.
That said, when your spouse has been engaging in an affair and comes clean and says they're back in the M, they've blown all trust that you may have had and it is on THEM to rebuild that trust. How do they do that? 100% transparency on phone, email, social media, etc. First of all if your spouse admits to an affair you should absolutely not dismiss it, welcome them back with open arms and pretend it never happened. Because if you do, I guarantee it will happen again and probably soon. You should lay down boundaries. NO weekend outings without your consent, NO sneaking off for 4 hours to go shopping or whatever, NO secret phone texting. When I say 100% transparency on phone and such, I mean she gives you all her passwords and if you ask to see her phone she hands it over for your review. Is that snooping? No, it is her being on probation for violating a very basic agreement in a marriage, that you will not F around on your spouse.
So where do you stand? Your W admits to an A, and says she wants to work on the M. Well what work has she done? NONE AT ALL. Here's my advice to you- sit down with her and tell her that you've given it a lot of thought, that you no longer trust her, and that if she wants to work on things like she says, then she needs to start by handing over her phone so you can see what she's been up to (and hold your hand out for it). If she gets mad and refuses, well that tells you how "committed" she is to working on things, right? And you know where you stand and can start treating her like the WAS she is. If she hands it over, then take it and go through her texts and FB messages and such. That is the MINIMUM she should be willing to do to regain your trust.
Edit to add- many spouses who take back a cheater have also insisted the cheater send a message to the OP telling them they want no contact with them ever again, and then delete their contact info and block them on social media, and do it all in the presence of the cheated-on spouse. If this sounds like it would embarrass her, well yeah, shame is part of what a cheater needs to suffer as a consequence of their actions. You can't treat cheating lightly.
Thanks for the answers and advice. I think I'm starting to understand the difference a bit better. Still nice and calm today...leaving work now and hoping to stay strong, keep up the 180s and make it a great holiday weekend with or without her!
Touched on this in another thread...but wanted to put it here too. Last night I was home with w and kids. In discussing the weekend plans I told her which night my daughter was coming to dinner, when I had to go to office and a meet up I’m having with a friend. Her response: “thanks for checking with me”! Lol. This led to “well then I don’t feel bad when I ditch you on Xmas day to go see family”. My response: “you should go. I’ve been invited to a party (which I have) and probably won’t be home anyway”. She quickly asked a rapid series of questions about party... who? When? Where? Etc. I answered and walked away. She recovered her questioning with “that’s good, you should hang out with them more anyway”. The advice I got here worked nicely. Not because it put her in a tailspin....but how it made me feel. More in control of me no matter how she feels. More confident and more GAL! Small steps...one in front of the other.
Also, I found myself caring less about what she was doing or saying. Feeling less of the initial desperation of the BD and more of the disgust of “how could you do this to me. I deserve better”. Small shift, but noticeable in myself.
There are many stages of emotions you will go through. Just expect to feel content one moment, anger another, sadness another.
Keep up the GAL.
That being said you dont need to explain to her the what, where, who IMHO. She isnt actively trying to R with you, just said the words.
Next time just keep it to a short "I have plans" .
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
I'll not support thy progeny whilst you are in the throngs of another man! Eschew females, acquire currency! OK hopefull that made you laugh...
R2C and Burned are doing awesome in here.
Quote
Then threw in “we’ll me relative doesn’t have her kids on Christmas Day...so I might go see her.”
Translation: "I'm going out ho'ing" or to see OM.
You should say "Have fun" or "Enjoy your day". Water off a duck's back.
Quote
I told her which night my daughter was coming to dinner, when I had to go to office and a meet up I’m having with a friend.
Say less. "I'm going out".
Quote
She quickly asked a rapid series of questions about party... who? When? Where? Etc. I answered and walked away.
Say less. Are you getting the whole story from her? But she gets it from you?
I'm reading AnotherStander's post and here are my thoughts: Go read my threads if you'd like to see how "taking it easy" on the WW works out. You have to be honest, and it's hard. If she doesn't want to "do the work" her saying she wants to be in MR is empty BS anyways and you'll be stuck on the roller coaster. This is where you set the boundaries, and it's where I really didn't enforce them.
1. Transparency: you can't trust her, she needs to rebuild trust. If she can't do everything in her power to do this, then you don't have anything. I didn't force the issue here and we didn't didn't rebuild much. 2. Counseling: Don't let her off the hook. If she doesn't want to go and work on your healing and MR healing, then this stuff won't work. 3. No Contact with OM: Kinda goes with the transparency thing. Though she may go back to him anyways, and since the OM is usually a bum he'll take her back - or he never wanted all that much from her anyways. 4. Treatment: My W treated me like garbage, was mad at my family, mad at me. If she is doing this, she isn't all in with you.
You keep these type of things in mind, if she isn't fitting the bill on any one of them, she is not into fixing this with you. So you just pull back and stay detached, stay calm, and don't play like you are in a MR if she isn't hitting these points (or whatever points you have).
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Another decent 24 hours of DB’ing and successful 180s. Spent most of the day yesterday GAL. Out of house...shopping, errands, work, etc. Then quiet night at home with w and kid last night. Kept to the plan of saying less, doing less, being less engaged. We did watch a couple of movies and laughed and enjoyed. I just tried to be the best version of me all night...while not being completely engaged with her. Example: normally I would make dinner for us...tonight I made myself a single dinner and didnt ask or make anything else. Only thing that really happened was when she was on phone during movie...she said “just so you know, I’m texting my girlfriend about a Xmas gift”. Translation: “I’m texting OM”. Anyway...I actually shushed her “shhhhhh” giving movie my undivided attention. All the while thinking “if you need to text that f’ing loser who’s responding from his moms basement...go for it. By next Christmas I’ll be here in my great house watching movie next to someone who would never stoop to the level you have!” I catch myself thinking how sad that my mind has gone that direction...but then I realize that it’s good that I’m beginning to believe that my story continues to be good with or without her.
That’s all for now....I’ll be watching football all day. I’ve got some serious cash on the line today - wish me luck! Then my daughter and friend coming for dinner tonight. Lots of good stuff to keep me busy and gal today!
You are pretty early in the process so I just want to comment on your post above.
DBing is not about being mean, cold, vindictive it's about being indifferent.
You didn't make dinner for her but yet you watched a couple movies with her. That seems counterproductive to me. Now if you didn't make her dinner because you were grabbing a bite to eat because you were headed out early to GAL that would be different.
Now if one of her complaints is that you are rude, shushing her during the movie is just more of the same behavior.
If you know for a fact she is still talking to OM I would not be watching movies with her I would be out with friends or family or dong something OM my own when she is home.
I'll add to R2C's post by saying that when you are angry, you are allowing another person's action to upset you. Given her history, she is going to keep upsetting you. She likes that you're upset because she knows you still care. When a woman, or man really, wants to be wanted and you are just totally indifferent to them they hate that.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Just to be clear...there was no anger or rudeness. I was being or at least appearing happy and content. Just wasn’t as engaged with her as I had in the past. I made myself dinner...I watched movies...she joined me and I was indifferent to it. I know I’m very early in this process...but I am feeling a shift in myself. Small but noticeable shift away.
Holiday has been quiet. I feel I’ve done a good job of focusing on myself and making the best out of each day. Last night was her family Xmas. I participated as I normally would...just focused on having fun and appearing happy and confident. It was a fun night. Of course if you read this thread you know that today she is going to see family without me. I’ve done a great job (I think) of giving her the “have fun” response each time she asks if it’s ok. I have a Christmas party to attend later too. I paused numerous times over the past days to come back here and read the rules again and again. It has certainly helped me work on me...my confidence is way up with myself, self esteem is growing and I feel more in charge of myself than I have in a while. I’m really starting to see how the 180s are not to win her back...but to self improve.
Now, with her “elsewhere” today it is hard for me to not feel a lot of emotions. I’m assuming she will be seeing OM at some point. And it just angers me to sit back and say nothing. I so badly want to call her....or better yet...show up and tell her it’s over and have a nice life with that moron! These emotions as this day got closer has me not liking her much. I feel a little more annoyed by her presence every day. When my first marriage was ending...I would hate the sound of the garage door opening...it raised my blood pressure because I knew she was home. I now find myself happy to be home without her (even on Xmas!) today. I’m starting to just think that maybe I don’t want her back. I’ll be honest, that thought makes me sad. But as I’ve worked thru this holiday all I keep thinking is how her selfish, poor choices have ruined so much! I just want to lock the door and tell her to stay away. Just doesn’t feel like healthy emotions but I can’t stop it. She simply doesn’t deserve me. And I certainly don’t deserve to be sh** upon by her behavior. It just hurts me to feel this way toward her...I just never thought this would happen to us. Ok...pity party over!
Quick question: my w just sent me a text asking about being intimate tonight. I have no idea how to respond. I’m not interested in being with her right now...as I’m assuming she is with the OM today. Gross! I just can’t decide how to respond. I want to say “considering who you are most likely with right now...no”. Or...”until you’re ready to really start being honest with me...no”. Help. I’m at a loss on this one.
Think Admiral Akbar in Star Wars: “It’s a trap!” Brush up on your WW control tactics.
No need to put the guilt on her. You’re not angry, cold, vindictive. You just don’t care if she does or doesn’t want to get with you. If you don’t want to, keep it simple: “No thanks.” Walk away and leave it to her if she wants to wonder why. You’re out being yourself. You’re not sloppy seconds.
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
Thanks guys! I simply didn’t respond. I’m really struggling with not calling her out on her behaviors and choices. She’ll come home acting like all is ok. I just want to say “how stupid do you think I am”? Just feel like I’m gonna snap. Ugh.
DC - that feeling is why people here talk about patience, discipline, “marathon not sprint,” “hardest thing you’ve ever done,” etc.
You’re here because, at least initially, you love this woman and want to preserve the relationship you currently have with her, or create a new one under the best possible circumstances.
If that’s still your goal, never act on emotion. If there comes a time to discuss with her how her behaviors made you feel, it can be done. By that point, time will have diluted some of the feelings, and ideally you’ll have professional guidance.
You are not there yet. If you feel like you’re making such dramatic progress after only a week (and admittedly you’re older and have already been through a previous D, so that may count in your favor), ask yourself: why are there dozens of us hanging around here, 6-24 months after BD, who haven’t made that kind of progress yet?
My hunch is that your emotions are misleading you. I’m not saying this to put you down or discourage you. Some people do very well very quickly, and you may be one of them. But try to maintain a healthy dose of skepticism. Think about your expectations of yourself. Consider the opposite of anything you think is “certain” and ask yourself if the opposite is equally (or even more) plausible.
That way, when you hit the almost unavoidable setback, tomorrow or a year from now, you’ll already have prepared yourself to some degree.
Other than that...vent here, or write it in your journal, or go out back and shoot some beer bottles. Clear your mind BEFORE you interact with her. Rinse well for best results. Something like that. :P
H: 35 W: 33 M: 11 T: 13
4/10/18: I discovered A and confronted ("BD1") 6/23/18: I moved out 8/31/18: MC ends ("BD2")
To be clear on a couple of points. I do want to figure out a way to rebuild our relationship. I'm just finding myself experiencing numerous emotions toward her the farther down the road I get. Anger, disgust, betrayal, dislike...which I have never felt before. But then sometimes I stop and look at her...or make eye contact and I'm drawn toward her again. Like I said previously...negative feelings toward her make me sad. I guess all of this goes to your point of patience and discipline? Are these negative emotions just part of the process? Normal?
I must have sounded a bit cocky in previous posts...because I do NOT feel like I've made much progress in the 2 months since BD. I feel like I'm good at following the rules and using the instuctions/advice that I have found on this board. For that fact, I'm very grateful to have found this site and the generous members who are so helpful. But progress, not really. I"m brand new to this...and learning something every day. But I continue to feel lost and alone as I work thru this every day. I go back and read the rules...and it gives me guidance even though I don't understand it all. As I have posted...when sticking to the rules...it has make a noticeable shift in my attitude...at least temporarily, at times. Again, I'm good at rules...even when I'm not sure of the effect of them. I have confidence that someone has fine tuned these rules after numerous studies and experience.
One moment I feel more in control...then anger or betrayal takes over and I nearly lose control. That when I come here to get swift advice not to react. It has certainly saved me from myself more than once. Thanks for that.
My biggest struggle currently is knowing that she is continuing the A and continuing to not be honest with me. Cake eating as I've seen it called on here. I struggle to not say anything to her as my pride wants me to let it be known that I'm aware of her continued betrayal...and I'm not so ignorant that I'm actually falling for her lies. It's hard to follow the rules when it allows her to think she is fooling me. She's not.
Things I didn't realize before finding this board: Gal is crucial (and more dfficult than is sounds), temp checks (never would have caught this before). and Sandi's descriptions of a WW (putting it in a whole new perspective)...and more.
To be clear on a couple of points. I do want to figure out a way to rebuild our relationship.
DC,
Just to be clear, this can't happen while your W is in an affair.
You really only have two choices right now. You ignore the A and you GAL like a madman and you show your W what she will be missing and maybe she decides that is a life she wants to continue be apart of right now.
You decide you love and value yourself too much to share your W with another man and you ask her to move out and you offer her to pack her $hit. If she refuses to move out then you serve her with D papers.
Newbies typically don't have the b@lls yet for number 2 so they go with number 1 but it fails 90% because they continue to pursue and have difficulty GALING.
To be clear on a couple of points. I do want to figure out a way to rebuild our relationship.
DC,
Just to be clear, this can't happen while your W is in an affair.
You really only have two choices right now. You ignore the A and you GAL like a madman and you show your W what she will be missing and maybe she decides that is a life she wants to continue be apart of right now.
You decide you love and value yourself too much to share your W with another man and you ask her to move out and you offer her to pack her $hit. If she refuses to move out then you serve her with D papers.
Newbies typically don't have the b@lls yet for number 2 so they go with number 1 but it fails 90% because they continue to pursue and have difficulty GALING.
GAL is very hard with IHS. I have struggled in this area. I am no longer pursuing but yes I did pursue several times after I started DB. Right now my biggest hurdle is deciding if I want to move out. When I started feeling like moving out I started questioning if it was the right decision and if it was just emotional. As of now I am still leaning toward moving out because I feel the same about it.
Obviously I still care about my WW, but she hurt me so badly. I am no longer drawn to her when I see her. I look at her and when I do I get the feeling of "God I need to get away from this person I no longer know". I don't think my WW is going to move out. My WW is cake eating like a madwoman.
I know I will be fine on my own. I really just don't want to put the kids through me leaving and I don't feel like I should be the one leaving, but if she doesn't leave what am I going to do? Live IHS for years and years? I don't think so. My WW invited me out twice this last weekend. I declined both, which really seemed to surprise her to the point where she even said "Going out to eat with me isnt going to hurt anything". Um yeah WW, going out to eat with you is going to hurt me emotionally because of how you are acting, so, no thanks.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
Short story: Wife admitted to a 1 year affair a couple of months ago. Said she didn't know what she wanted to do...and asked for time and space.
What brought this admission from her? Were you having a relationship discussion or had you suspected an affair?
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Things at home were actually going along fine...even though I know whe continues to see the A partner. Fast forward to now... wife tells me that she has ended the affair for good and wants to work on marriage. She has since gone into complete silence toward me. Asking for time to grieve and for me to leave her alone while she copes with this.
Again, did you confront her about working on the MR?
Did you have anything to say about her wanting to be left alone to grieve over OM?
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I understand the emotions she is feeling as I believe she was in a very limerent relationship. What do I do now?
Well, the thing to have done would be to state what you will need from her, in order for you to heal after her affair and all that went with it (deceit, betrayal, lies, infidelity, etc.). The way your post reads, it's as if she (the cheater) was telling you how things were going to be.....instead of you (the betrayed) telling her the requirements needed to reconcile the MR.
Coming off an affair, the cheater will go through withdrawals......if there is zero contact with AP of any type. If she is trying to recover from her waywardness, then she doesn't want to feel your presence smothering her. However, for you to just sit back and let her call the shots......doesn't work in the M's favor. She doesn't get to "go silent" on you. It's unacceptable.
And now, she has suddenly texted you (while she's been gone somewhere) wanting to know if there will be sex tonight (or last night, whichever the case). I'm probably too late with my advice about the sex, but please put this under you cap for later. Whenever the WW "suddenly" wants to change something...….or suddenly acts differently......…….watch out! You have to ask yourself why she gives you the silent treatment for a couple of weeks, and leaves for the weekend to be with someone else.....and out of the blue ask you if there will be any sex. Doesn't this seems a wacky? she as sleeping with OM, you need to tell her you want to see the results of a STD and pregnancy test before you have unprotected sex with her. I mean, be smart! Why did she and AP suddenly break up?
As for your up and down emotions, it's not uncommon. Just don't react or make decisions out of your emotions.
If I understood you correctly, it seems more important to you to know if she is still contacting AP. Is that correct? If you found out that she was still contacting him, what would be your next step? Don't say any words to her that you aren't ready to backup with actions.
I'll add more, once I hear back from you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Sandi...Thanks for chiming in here. Appreciate it. I've reads LOTS of your posts/threads and have learned a bunch.
I'll try to answer your questions to move this along...
I suspected an affair with a co worker and confronted her. She admitted to it. She immediately quit that job and asked for time and space to decide what she wanted to do. After being a emotional wreck for the 1st 2 weeks...I stopped and realized I can't control her...and I'm a big boy that needs to take care of himself. I started doing some of the 180's without even know what they were. The BD happened 2 months ago.
I've been practicing the rules/180's since....and even more since I discovered this board about a month ago. We did see a marriage counselor 2 times in November...and we are both willing to do more of it. However, I feel that it's a waste of time and money unless she commits to ending the affair.
We have been very civil thru the whole thing...no fighting, no one would no the difference. We even went on a weeks vacation that had already been planned/purchased. We agreed to NO relationship talk while on vacation...and we both admitted we had a great time and it was a reminder of how good things were between us not that long ago.
However, almost immediately after the trip...she was back to her old tricks. Telling me she was out with girls...when I knen she was with OM. Following the trip I told her I can't be with her physically/sexually if she continues to see him...its just such a turn off. I also told her I will no longer stay home with her kids while she continues to disrespect and lie to me about where she is. There have been no overnights away but she still finds ways to see the OM in small doses...just a lot less than it was previously.
After I put those couple of lines in the sand...she said she went to talk to him and told him it was over. This is when she said she needed more time and space to grieve that loss. I validated her feeling on this...and continued to step back. She says she needed to end the A because she felt we would both regret if we don't try everything to fix the m. But I know she has contacted him at least once...and I assume she was with him for the afternoon yesterday. I've quit spying. BTW, there as no sex last night.
My mistake was posting "go silent" in the thread...she just was more withdrawn for a few days. Silent treatment was not part of our lives. We actually have been acting happy and "normal" around each other for the past 2 weeks...and made it thru Christmas with a couple of good family events spent together.
I agree that she shouldn't be calling the shots. This is where I struggle. If I follow the rules...then there is no r talk unless she starts it? There has been no r talk for the past week at least. I have started reading some of the books on NGS...but i do struggle here.
I guess I need to be ready for when she does bring it up? Obviously, my number one "need" would be ending the affair and being transparent to answer any questions going forward...followed by mc. I need to work on my needs as I've been so stuck on just the affair portion of this all...and just following the rules/advice. I guess I need to think about the next step.
I get not speaking up based on emotions, but boy is that hard sometimes.
As I said before, as I work thru all of this and turn my focus to me...she becomes less and less appealing to me. But I remember when our marriage was good not that long ago. I know we will never get that back...but I'm not ready to give up yet.
You did good by not responding. When in doubt, DO NOT RESPOND.
I was at a nightclub standing in line for a drink. Small talk with the attractive woman in line. At some point, she asked "Will you buy me a drink?" My immediate response was "After you buy me one." This woman was testing me. Did I pass the test?
Your woman is testing you. Pass the test.
If you need words: H:"W, it is going take more than a random text from you for me to even conciser being intimate with you."
Please do not send this. It is how you should be thinking.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Wife had a meltdown last night. She came to me and asked "how are we?". Lots of thoughts quickly went thru my mind as I processed how to answer that properly. She said she was feeling better about things and reminded me that she had ended the affair. I calmly validated her feeling better...but I did tell her that I don't believe she has fully ended the affair. She asked why...I said I don't think she really ended it. She may have told him she needed to end it...but it wasn't over IMO. SHe asked why I felt that way. I told her I know she has communicated with him at least once recently...she admitted to that saying it was a single response to his reaching out (yeah? so what?). She was adamant that she didn't see him on Christmas day. She has typically admitted to it after the fact in the past. But I don't believe her and I continued to tell her as much.
I explained to her that I'm being very patient...taking care of myself...and what I need to see from her before we discuss any kind of future. Explaining real transparency regarding the affair...real proof and time before physical in future...and a trained counselor to help us deal with her affair...and REMORSE. I went on to tell that I don't belive that she realizes how much damage her choice has caused...the pain, the destruction, the betrayal.
She was defensive and tried to place some of the blame of her actions on me. I explained that I understand that she felt our marriage wasn't the best...adding that plenty of couples have issues that they can work on....and most don't cheat. I explained that I'm willing to work on marriage and try to save it...but I've seen zero signs from her that she feels the same...and until then I will focus on myself...me getting better no matter how our story ends. She pointed out how much better things have been at home, how great our recent vacation was, how we enjoyed family time over Christmas. I validated...but pointed out that none of that matters as long as she is in A. It was getting late and I ended the convo. It was unresolved...but enough had been said. She went to sleep on couch, I went to bed.
This all started when she said my attitude lately has been poor...saying "your mr. independent act is pushing me away". SHe claims that she's been trying to move closer to me...as she feels herself coming out of the fog of the A...and I'm pushing her away. Even almost threatening that my new found independence would keep her going back to A. I simply said...you're an adult who can make her own decisions...and so am I. We both know we have to live with our choices.
I don't know if I handled any of it correctly, but I was able to voice my needs...something I struggle with at times (NGS!).
I told her I know she has communicated with him at least once recently...she admitted to that saying it was a single response to his reaching out (yeah? so what?). She was adamant that she didn't see him on Christmas day. She has typically admitted to it after the fact in the past. But I don't believe her and I continued to tell her as much.
What do you mean she would typically admit to it in the past? She would say yes I was with OM? What was your response when she would admit to it?
Originally Posted by DC421
I explained to her that I'm being very patient...taking care of myself...and what I need to see from her before we discuss any kind of future.
Way too much talking. Never say things like I am being patient, I will always be here for you etc.
Originally Posted by DC421
Explaining real transparency regarding the affair...real proof and time before physical in future...and a trained counselor to help us deal with her affair...and REMORSE.
What was her response to this?????
Originally Posted by DC421
She was defensive and tried to place some of the blame of her actions on me. I explained that I understand that she felt our marriage wasn't the best...adding that plenty of couples have issues that they can work on....and most don't cheat.
That's actually not true. I have read that over 70% of marriages have had at least one indiscretion.
Originally Posted by DC421
I explained that I'm willing to work on marriage and try to save it...but I've seen zero signs from her that she feels the same...and until then I will focus on myself...me getting better no matter how our story ends.
It sounds to me at least verbally she is willing to work on the marriage.
Originally Posted by DC421
She pointed out how much better things have been at home, how great our recent vacation was, how we enjoyed family time over Christmas. I validated...but pointed out that none of that matters as long as she is in A.
Very true!
Originally Posted by DC421
claims that she's been trying to move closer to me...as she feels herself coming out of the fog of the A...and I'm pushing her away. Even almost threatening that my new found independence would keep her going back to A.
Red flag city. Looks like she is going to blame you for the continued affair.
Originally Posted by DC421
I simply said...you're an adult who can make her own decisions...and so am I. We both know we have to live with our choices.
Too much talking.
Originally Posted by DC421
I don't know if I handled any of it correctly, but I was able to voice my needs...something I struggle with at times (NGS!).
Look until you know the affair is over and she gives you full transparency,she sends a no contact letter to OM and you get into counseling these convos are useless and are even doing more damage. Heck shes trying to use it to make an excuse to continue her affair.
I suspected an affair with a co worker and confronted her. She admitted to it. She immediately quit that job and asked for time and space to decide what she wanted to do.
Before this A, had she ever been guilty of what is seen as inappropriate behavior for a married woman?
Was she getting pressure to quit that job? Is she currently working anywhere else?
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After I put those couple of lines in the sand...she said she went to talk to him and told him it was over. This is when she said she needed more time and space to grieve that loss. I validated her feeling on this...and continued to step back. She says she needed to end the A because she felt we would both regret if we don't try everything to fix the m. But I know she has contacted him at least once...and I assume she was with him for the afternoon yesterday. I've quit spying. BTW, there as no sex last night.
I am trying to find out what or who prompted her to end the A. The WW won't simply end her A b/c she has been caught.
The sentence in bold, is nothing more than WW b.s.
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Following the trip I told her I can't be with her physically/sexually if she continues to see him...its just such a turn off. I also told her I will no longer stay home with her kids while she continues to disrespect and lie to me about where she is.
This was before she texted to see if there would be any sex, right? You told her there would be no sex if she continued seeing him, and she goes out and sends you a TM to see if there would be any sex that night.
There is something I want you to remember when dealing a WW. Don't expect honorable results from a dishonorable person.
At the core of the wayward W is a heart filled with resentment and disrespect. She does not respect her H as a man, much less as a husband. That is where the problem really started in the MR, and until her resentment and disrespect is addressed and resolved.....she's not going to feel differently about him.
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I agree that she shouldn't be calling the shots. This is where I struggle. If I follow the rules...then there is no r talk unless she starts it?
If you will tell me which rule, I'll be happy to explain further.
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I guess I need to be ready for when she does bring it up? Obviously, my number one "need" would be ending the affair and being transparent to answer any questions going forward...followed by mc. I need to work on my needs as I've been so stuck on just the affair portion of this all...and just following the rules/advice. I guess I need to think about the next step.
Yes, I suggest you get ready. However, I really think it is too early to really expect a true reconciliation on her part. Plus, it will be rare to see a WW (who is still contacting OM) to care about her H's needs. She's still wayward. Just b/c you had a nice little vacation, and the two of you had "normal" evenings together…...doesn't mean a thing. Nothing has changed in her. Even if the A ends, it doesn't mean your M is automatically fixed or saved. Many times, the WW will move on to OM#2. I don't think your W will approach you with a humble heart, wanting to atone for the pain she's caused. Instead, I think she'll hold out for separate sleeping arrangements; more personal space/time; playing "happy couple/family" when it's convenient for her; and basically continue to benefit from being legally M to you. But, that's JMHO. My point here is that your WW has not changed. I believe it's like a process the WW has to go through to recover from that wayward mindset and behavior. She needs a supervised plan. (But don't tell her she needs a supervised plan!) Don't go repeating to her what has been stated to you,
Whenever you are talking to your WW. Don't tell her you need to see certain emotions in her. WW's have been known to be great actresses. So, don't tell her you need to see remorse or humility. Here's the thing, if and when she gets serious about saving her M...….then you will see her anguish, remorse, etc.
Don't take her back too quickly. She needs to work for her position as a W to you. Understand my wording here. She doesn't "want" to work to get you back....but she needs to do it. She has a lot to process and overcome.
I hope I didn't butcher this post too badly. I actually got off into more stuff and decided it would probably be more confusing than helpful, so I deleted it. That's my problem, trying to cover too much at once.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This interaction with W is just a learning experience. Here is my 2 cents:
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I explained....Explaining..... I went on to tell....... I explained......adding that..... I explained...but pointed out that ...I don't know if I handled any of it correctly, but I was able to voice my needs...something I struggle with at times (NGS!).
I always believe less is more.
Originally Posted by DC421
Wife had a meltdown last night. She came to me and asked "how are we?".
H:Long pause looking her dead in the eyes, then "I am not sure." Then shut up, maintain eye contact until she breaks eye contact.
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She said she was feeling better about things and reminded me that she had ended the affair. I calmly validated her feeling better...but I did tell her that I don't believe she has fully ended the affair.
Better is: "I don't believe you" Then shut up, maintain eye contact until she breaks eye contact.
As far as remorse, I believe that is what you are LOOKING FOR, not what you should be telling her you are looking for. Do the police put up a sign that says they have a speed trap 1 mile up the road?
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Last edited by Cadet; 12/28/1804:51 PM. Reason: Link
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
