another day, another thread, another burned

[Phoenix9]

B,

Throughout this hell that you have been dealing with, look back on what you have accomplished, and ask yourself:

"Am I working on being TRULY happier? Have I had those moments of TRUE happiness? Who cares what anyone else thinks?"

I am going to say yes. Why? Because we are similar in our mindset, feelings, and actions. I know I have my genuinely happy moments in between moments of chaos and sadness. And those moments feel great. There is no "yeah, but" feeling. It's just..."yeah".

You have those moments as well. Your GAL stuff you're doing. The fish sandwich experience. Moments of TRUE happiness.

Keep detaching, B. Your mindset should be:

She does not give a damn about your feelings. Anything that gives off the impression otherwise should ALWAYS be a red flag and a hidden motive behind it. ALWAYS.

TRUST NOTHING FROM HER.

You WILL be better off, whether it's with or without her. Period.

[burned]

From ballast’s thread:

92% of people are terrible at sticking to DB because they don't have the discipline that it takes not to backslide and pursue.

You mean people will go dark, not pursue for months, and then suddenly decide they want to profess their love again? Is that how it goes? To me that just sounds sort of...a waste.

I mean I do a lot of complaining here, but in real life I feel like I’ve been pretty consistent. No pursuit whatsoever since early October at the latest...Maybe someday it’ll pay off.

[Ready2Change]

Venting here is good.


Just for you to think about:

How much more attractive are you since BD? How do you know?

[burned]

Continuing a good discussion that started on Twofeet’s thread. Based on the YT video of the guy talking about this common scripted story arc. And by the fact that I’ve heard/read in other places how common it is (“Rebuilding” by Fisher & Alberti, “Grow Up” by Pittman, “The Solo Partner” by Deluca, “Getting Back Together” by Youngs & Goetz).

Since I got here I’ve wondered a couple of things:

1. What happens to the people who don’t DB? Like, how do the other 90% of people handle this kind of thing? Do they just say “F it” and move on? I know lots of divorced people, so there must be a story arc for them? Or,

2. Is there something unique about those of us who end up here? I mean, not only that we are the “dumpees” (as opposed to dumpers), not only that we want to save the M or at least the relationship, but also that there’s something about us that makes it difficult for us to let go and move on? In other words, is this forum the place where the extreme cases end up? Speaking only for myself, as a codependent and needy little guy (for now), it seems like other people just sort of deal with it without all the fuss because they’re just intrinsically better at it? Meaning they do the same stuff that DBers do but they didn’t need anyone to explain it to them. Not sure if that’s making sense. But then that leads into

3. Why are we so sure our grass is greener? We can make it greener but there are some truly spectacular people out there. What’s the likelihood that there’s someone whose grass is so green that mine can never be as green? Or, more likely, is that part of the WW mentality, like maybe a deficit in green-perception? And is it LBS fog to think that W is so great that she’d be snapped up by some neat dude? Because if they knew her and what she did, they’d run. So it’s almost like the WWs dump us because they can’t see how green we are, and we feel sad because we can’t see how brown and stinky their hearts are. But the main point I was getting at is that there have to be times when the LBS is really just junk no matter what, and the OM is really a catch. I guess maybe being here and DBing, and holding out hope and love for Ws who did what they did to us and left us, means that we ARE the better ones. And thinking that loser scumbag OM is a “catch” reflects my own lack of self-esteem. So maybe I just answered this part of the question.

Thoughts? BTW, I’m doing well today. Making progress on detachment, slowly but surely.

[AndrewP]

Hi there burned. I've seen your posts but tbh have never dipped my feet in and actually read them but this one caught my attention.

Yes - there can be some great conversations here about the how/why/whichness of it all

1. What happens to the people who don’t DB? Like, how do the other 90% of people handle this kind of thing? Do they just say “F it” and move on? I know lots of divorced people, so there must be a story arc for them? Or,

2. Is there something unique about those of us who end up here? I mean, not only that we are the “dumpees” (as opposed to dumpers), not only that we want to save the M or at least the relationship, but also that there’s something about us that makes it difficult for us to let go and move on? In other words, is this forum the place where the extreme cases end up? Speaking only for myself, as a codependent and needy little guy (for now), it seems like other people just sort of deal with it without all the fuss because they’re just intrinsically better at it? Meaning they do the same stuff that DBers do but they didn’t need anyone to explain it to them. Not sure if that’s making sense. But then that leads into

I think that most of those who end up here are "fixers" and are attracted by the premise of DB which is to save our marriages. The forum feeds in to the counseling which has helped a good number of people even if they haven't been quite as active in soliciting in the last year or so. What we have here is a small community of people who care deeply, who are looking for answers and looking to fix things. A number of them hang around and try to help or "fix" the newcomers who come in. For me I hang around because I have made some good friends here and this is a nice place to keep my diary.

I've participated and read other forums. It's really the community and the premise of a "system" I think that has people stay here. The people here tend to be more thoughtful and more devoted to their spouses along with more forgiving. As I wrote to someone probably around 2 years ago, by the time people end up here though our situations are usually so far down the rabbit hole that there is little chance of a turn-around. It does happen, but it is rare.

Other forums are less "blame the victim" or "fix the problem" - call it what you will. They focus on cutting the wayward spouse loose as quickly and painlessly as possible. They are much less common though as the common narrative in society is that reconciliation is the ideal goal rather than self-preservation.

You also have to consider that many who end up here are struggling with dealing with the sunk costs of in some cases like mine, decades long marriages, the cognitive dissonance of wanting one thing but having a separate reality and of course to my mind the key one of research bias where we are attracted to places that support our own pre-conceived notions of a desired outcome.

3. Why are we so sure our grass is greener? We can make it greener but there are some truly spectacular people out there. What’s the likelihood that there’s someone whose grass is so green that mine can never be as green? Or, more likely, is that part of the WW mentality, like maybe a deficit in green-perception? And is it LBS fog to think that W is so great that she’d be snapped up by some neat dude? Because if they knew her and what she did, they’d run. So it’s almost like the WWs dump us because they can’t see how green we are, and we feel sad because we can’t see how brown and stinky their hearts are. But the main point I was getting at is that there have to be times when the LBS is really just junk no matter what, and the OM is really a catch. I guess maybe being here and DBing, and holding out hope and love for Ws who did what they did to us and left us, means that we ARE the better ones. And thinking that loser scumbag OM is a “catch” reflects my own lack of self-esteem. So maybe I just answered this part of the question.

Thoughts? BTW, I’m doing well today. Making progress on detachment, slowly but surely.

I wrote to someone else just recently that my own perspective, perhaps based on my own situation is that a WW like my own are running to and not from. It's part of as you suggest the make-up of the community here of people who take responsibility who are often doing most of the adulting in a relationship to look within themselves for some possible defect that made them the cause of what happened. I adored my now ex-wife. But I also knew that she was no real prize. There certainly are a number of cases as you describe but those are more WAW situations I would think. And those do lend themselves to DB methods.

I'm glad to read that you are doing well. The roller-coaster of emotions can go on for a very long time.

[DC421]

Great discussion guys. I’ve thought about it a lot since finding this board and the active members who are so willing to help others. I think Andrew nailed it...we are fixers who still believe in fighting for our marriage despite the horrible acts of disrespect that have been done. Most don’t think that way.

On burned’s point 3: When it comes to the OM...it’s laughable in my case. I know him as I’ve met him numerous times when my w worked with him. He’s mid 40’s and still lives with his parents! His job is dead end. He recently had his car repossessed and has numerous judgements against him. I have no idea what my wife sees in him. She told me that I sometimes made her feel less than me....and he accepts her. Lol...yeah, I suppose he does. I sometimes feel sorry that she is caught in this lemerent state with such a loser. Part of me feels like I’m fighting to save her and her kids from how that story ends. I know it’s not healthy to compare...but c’mon man! My wife is a survivor...she’d be fine with or without me. But any fantasy she has of a life with THAT is comical. I know there are deeper reasons for all of it...but sometimes it makes me feel better to imagine how that goes.

Humor is such an important part of all facets of life...good and bad. So sometimes making fun of the OM isn’t terrible...just not out loud to w. Anyone else look at the OM and just chuckle and scratch your head?

I’m doing good today too. Spent last night at home with w and kids. After just a week of reading here...I feel myself simply caring less about what she does and says. She told me she is going to visit family without me on Xmas day. I simply said “ok. I was invited to a party so I’ll probably be gone anyway”. I meant it and it felt good. Then at one point while we were both in the kitchen she said “I haven’t spoke to him at all”. I ignored the comment and acted like I didn’t hear her and walked away. Again, felt good to not get sucked in. Right or wrong...both felt like small steps for me moving forward.

Thoughts?

[SoTorn]

The OM in my case is only a step up in regards to his job and how much money he makes. But he is 20 years my senior so of course he is going to be near retirement and further along in his career. Other than that OM is not anywhere near as good looking as I am. Thats not bragging its just a truthful fact. OM has zero integrity because he is married and cheated on his wife and kids as well. I have met OM and honestly he seems like Mr. NGS. I don't know if my WW was looking for someone to just do whatever she wants or what but it seems like that. WW is a very controlling person. She likes to be in control of everything and then complains about nobody helping.

[burned]

Then at one point while we were both in the kitchen she said “I haven’t spoke to him at all”.

pants on fire!

I ignored the comment and acted like I didn’t hear her and walked away.

Nicely done.

[burned]

Merry Christmas to all of my friends here. I have my ups and downs but I thank you all for the kind and patient guidance you’ve given me over the last several months. The rest of this post is just journaling.

It’s the ultimate irony. I was the “withdrawer” during the M. then I became the pursuer. Then I disengaged, hardcore. This is my self-imposed solitary confinement. I was led to believe I had no other option, so I went with it. I have no intention to backslide. Self-discipline was never my strong suit but this is a completely different dimension. I guess I should be proud? She didn’t want me in her life, and I didn’t want her to leave. So I “left” and that’s that.

Things have not gotten better. (...yet?) Every day she feels more and more gone. I know she was gone before, but I managed to put off FEELING it for a long time. Now it’s getting to me. I think the remaining pieces of the fantasy are starting to fall apart. This is happening, it has happened, and W will only exist in the past. A couple days ago that was an exciting thought, knowing that there’s a better future ahead. Today it just hurts.

My understanding is that I’m doing the best I can do and that there are no other options that are likely to help me recover, one way or the other. That’s what I’ve had to tell myself multiple times today. It was MY choice to stop taking the bait, to stop responding to temp checks, to stop the pursuit, to present a courageous face to the world when really all I want to do is vomit until I can’t breathe. I could have just kept on doing what I was doing. I’m tempted to think that things might have turned out better if I had been more responsive to her, if I had been more cooperative, if I had tried to stay friends. I know that wrong but it FEELS wrong to have done it the way I did. So when I get those doubts, based on how I feel, as against what wiser people than me have told me, I have to consciously set them aside and remind myself that this is “the worst option, except for all the others” (paraphrasing Churchill).

Because today all I really wanted was a “merry Christmas” temp check text message. Something to show me that she hasn’t completely erased me. Something to remind me that we once mattered to each other. Instead I got nothing. Dead silence. And I keep forgetting that I brought this on myself. By choice. Because I’m worth far more than some throwaway meaningless text message from an ex.

So, that’s where I’m at tonight. Not trying to be a negative Nancy on what should be a happy night. I just have no one else to talk to, really. So I’m here talking to myself. Let this be a record of my current thought processes: “Most WASes eventually look back.” Yeah, but mine probably won’t. “There are lots of recon stories.” Yeah, but I’m not a DB ninja like them, and I already did so much damage. “You won’t want her back.” Yeah, but it would be nice to at least have the option. “You’ll be better off without her.” Hmm. Maybe.

[Bo562]

Dude, you deserve better.

Like all of us here.

I can’t convince you otherwise, but whatever you did, you did not ‘bring this upon’ yourself. At the end of the day, we don’t deserve this.

You deserve better, and you matter, and you will be better off some day.

(((Hugs)))