two steps forward, three steps back (burned)

[burned]

link to previous thread

[Ready2Change]

Most of us do not understand that time alone is a gift.

[Wanted1]

ST, you're yet another of the people who say they've seen this play out in real life. Before I got to DB, one of the first books I read was "Rebuilding" by Fisher & Alberti. I was totally floored when I got to the part that said "the dumper (WS) frequently comes back talking about reconciliation, right around the time the dumpee (LBS) is "making it," and the most common response is for the LBS to not take them back. Why? "I'm happy even without them, and they didn't seem to have changed much." Maybe AS is actually one of the authors. He won't admit it though. :P

Hahaha! No, never heard of it. I'm just coming from the angle of someone who has been here a long time and seen LBS's come back with updates, sometimes years after their last post and share that their WAS did eventually try to recon. I've also talked to quite a few people IRL that share similar stories. It happens a lot, but mostly it's YEARS later and that is the problem. I think if I told you "Burned, your W will truly repent of her actions and want to reconcile in 23.2 months" then you would probably wait, but all I can really tell you is she may want to in 2 years, or maybe 7 years, or maybe never. And what LBS is willing to wait 2 or 7 or 10 years just to see if -maybe- the WAS wants to recon? I can't imagine there are many. So we get over them and we move on and we build new lives for ourselves. Then when they do approach us, we're a new person with new interests and new goals and slotting them back into that can be very tough indeed. My whole spiel isn't that we should wait for them forever, it's just to say that the sad truth of it all is they will probably want to recon AFTER we don't want to anymore.

Judging by everything that I've learned on this forum, I think if that were the case, they wouldn't come back because we, as the LBS, waiting around and not believing that they are gone for good wouldn't create the necessary changes it takes to "move on" and "make it" that's probably required for most of the WW and WH to realize they screwed up and come out of the fog.

[Phoenix9]

Most of us do not understand that time alone is a gift.

This is not a joke when I say this, but understanding what you said takes time. I am just now getting that.

[SoTorn]

I am also just now feeling the "Time is a Gift" thing. I started school, have been working on myself physically and emotionally. Using the time wisely makes you feel the difference.

[burned]

W texted to ask when I'll transfer the money. I said as soon as the D is final. She pulled out her boundaries script, "That doesn't work for me." I said it's a division of property and I'm not making the transfer until the divorce decree is signed (not using that many words, of course, but that makes it easier to understand). She got all huffy and said some nonsense about alimony and taxes that I know is wrong because I did the research and figured it out. There was a little more back and forth, very short responses from me. Then she says "Well if it's going to be transferred anyway, what difference does it make?" Rather than parroting back the exact same question (because I do want to know), I just went on with my day.

So now she's all angry because I didn't do what she wants me to do. *Yawn.* Not once did she use the words "file" or "divorce" or whatever. And I did not relent.

1. I feel a bizarre sense of strength and calm. I like it.

LOL! Man these WAS's and their crazy talk. I responded by going to work out.

2. What is her angle? Someone please explain this to me because it makes no sense. She wants everything except the divorce. What other cake can she eat? Is it not clear to her that the M is over?

[Wanted1]

W texted to ask when I'll transfer the money. I said as soon as the D is final. She pulled out her boundaries script, "That doesn't work for me." I said it's a division of property and I'm not making the transfer until the divorce decree is signed (not using that many words, of course, but that makes it easier to understand). She got all huffy and said some nonsense about alimony and taxes that I know is wrong because I did the research and figured it out. There was a little more back and forth, very short responses from me. Then she says "Well if it's going to be transferred anyway, what difference does it make?" Rather than parroting back the exact same question (because I do want to know), I just went on with my day.

So now she's all angry because I didn't do what she wants me to do. *Yawn.* Not once did she use the words "file" or "divorce" or whatever. And I did not relent.

1. I feel a bizarre sense of strength and calm. I like it.

LOL! Man these WAS's and their crazy talk. I responded by going to work out.

2. What is her angle? Someone please explain this to me because it makes no sense. She wants everything except the divorce. What other cake can she eat? Is it not clear to her that the M is over?

Probably wants the money that she is claiming is the settlement now and then when she files she can go after more for the actual D settlement. My WW initially told me she doesn’t want any property settlement. That money wasn’t important to her. Boy, when I read her first proposal this past weekend she showed that she can perform 180s too. SMFH.....

[burned]

Oh that is DIRTY. I didn’t think of that. Wow that would be a new low for her. I suspect someone’s coaching her. OM?

These spouses are some kind of crazy.

Any other explanations? Control, fear, plan B stuff? Other than that I think you might have nailed it.

[TJT]

Now that R2C has officially lost me with the candy metaphor...

I just get a little pissy sometimes thinking (if it's true that the A is ongoing) that it stinks that she gets to be having a relationship and sex and someone to sleep next to, and I'm here just suffering alone.

R2C is totally right about the above. I go back to that thinking a lot, burned - A LOT - because it seems so unfair. But take a step back and look at your W's new thing as if you're a completely independent party to it. Would you envy it then? I doubt it because you will then be able to see how unhealthy and meaningless it really is once that limerance goes away (or once ish simply hits the fan and neither of them have the years of loyalty to each other to bank on).

Real love and commitment takes years to build upon and makes sacrifices. They have done neither at this point. It's easy to feel giddy and have sex and blah blah blah. It always fades and without that strong foundation what will be left then?

It frustrates the heck out of me to know that my H and OW have tons of people around them enabling their relationship. But that doesn't make it any less of a train wreck!

I'm stuck in the pain because the pain comes from the things that end the pain. Does that make any sense at all? And I'm angry at myself for letting it all happen.

Yes, it all makes perfect sense. Focus on how much more quickly you can get through those periods (I think by the time of my response you already have, so that's progress).

She stopped loving me, "cheated" on me which is just a fancy way of saying "kept me around for the money while she started a relationship with her new boyfriend." Strung me along even after I found out about it. And I let her.

1) She didn't stop loving you. Recognize even with the things you did wrong, this is not about your worth as a person.

2) No matter WHAT you did wrong, unless you really were abusive to the point of her being scared, it does not justify her running off with another person. Trust me, in these situations they will say anything. My H literally told his parents that I just didn't tell him he did a good job enough. Really? THAT'S why he cheated on me and suddenly wants to leave the entire life we've built? No. And if he felt it was really that bad, guess what? He could have left me BEFORE he had a convenient little hooha praising his farts.

Think of the specific behaviors that you don't like. Don't think of labels of who you are as a person. You can change a LOT of behaviors if you're mindful of them, hold yourself accountable for them (ask others to help you too if they notice it), etc. But make sure you're specific about what exactly it is you do that makes you SEEM emotionally abusive, or SEEM dependent, etc. We act certain ways for certain reasons - find those reasons and fix that. You do not have to BE those things.

I'd like to prove her wrong. I'd like to make the changes and see them stick. But she's so far out the door.

What does the former have to do with the latter here? If you want to make the changes you need to want to make them for YOU first, not just for her. Sure, let her be the reason you realized these things, but ultimately if you improve yourself it will still benefit YOU.

Look burned... reality is, you can't know all these things that you're making up, and it doesn't matter right now! Only you matter right now!

It's entirely possible that the abrupt and definite change of tone that happened in early August right as I was starting to participate here, was just her decision to be done, rather than something related to the A. Maybe she was telling the truth when she said the A is over.

It is entirely possible. It doesn't make the fact that she cheated on you any less hurtful or wrong, and personally I don't think anything you've done outweighs THAT, unless you're really not being fully honest. Only you are going to be able to determine that AND determine what you need to do to come to grips with your reality. But it will likely take you a lot more time to see things clearly, too. Be honest with yourself but also be fair.

More likely she will move on. You don't go back to a guy like the guy I was. Just too much damage to be worth considering.

If you're still the guy you were when she was with you, you haven't put in the work. So more likely, if you continue to put in the work like it seems you are, YOU will move on, and she can make a decision to benefit from that or not.

The key is that you have to want to change, period. If someone came to you right now and said 100% she is not coming back, does that mean you're not going to try to improve? I hope you realize that even if you don't get your W back (or she chooses not to benefit from the new and improved you) you will make the next woman so much happier if you've put in this work.

And do you think your W can say that? Is SHE going to IC? Is SHE working on herself or just trying to escape reality? She may seem "ahead" of you now but if she doesn't do the maintenance on her car and then breaks down in the middle of the road while you've been working hard to get yours in the best shape possible, you'll be passing her someday. IF she decides to do the work too, maybe she'll catch up and wave and exchange some pleasantries at a stop light... at which time you can choose how to respond to that.

[TJT]

Oh that is DIRTY. I didn’t think of that.

It would be dirty and I obviously can't say for sure that that wouldn't be the case. However... I honestly don't think it sounds that way. To me it just sounds like she's asking for money now for something she wants now (not sure if there's anything legitimate she would NEED, but since she didn't really provide a reason as to why exactly that "didn't work" for her, I do agree she's fishing for something.

But we have to be careful not to give them too much credit, either, and if she was trying to be manipulative I would think she would have had a better "reason" planned than just asking you straight up. Again, could be wrong. That's jut my gut reaction, FWIW.

Any other explanations? Control, fear, plan B stuff? Other than that I think you might have nailed it.

Lol... "other than that"... You just acknowledged that it literally could be a whole host of other things.

I think the other important thing to note here is that yes, while some people can become extremely vindictive for no reason in Ds, people also do a lot of things, as we all know, that say a lot more about THEM than us. To your point, it could definitely be control or fear or whatever, and she may NOT actually be trying to screw you over tenfold. Again maybe she is... but don't torture yourself (or put yourself into a deeper spiral) but jumping to conclusions.

Be smart and protect yourself but don't let her control your sanity.