8:00 a.m. Mass with OS, then Sunday school for him—the usual, for a Sunday. Now I’m at a Starbucks down the street from our parish, having coffee and doing this, and just getting out instead out sticking around the parish hall and hearing / watching a video about marriage. No thanks, not right now.
Mass was full of spiritual headshots for me today. I really like the parish—it’s more traditional / conservative, and we have really great priests.
Our presider today was on the money with his homily. For Catholics, today is the Feast of the Epiphany—an appearance, a revelation, a manifestation of Christ, and the 3 Magi come to give him the gifts.
It also hurts because last Sunday was The Feast of the Holy Family, and this weekend is the Epiphany—so a perfect time for a BDing.
Our priest in his homily hit me between the eyes—he talked about how the grass isn’t always greener, and that if it is greener, we shouldn’t mess up someone else’s lawn. The idea that we are responsible for our own happiness. It hit me square in the face, and my eyes started to tear up, and I said under my breath ‘Thank you, Father.’
I know that this could very well apply to me, given my postings from yesterday. But I also know that it could very well apply to W. The grass of leaving me (to be by herself, to be with OM, if he exists, or whatever), may not always be greener.
Going to Mass kinda hurts right now—but having a H / W with 5 kids sit down in the pew in front of me and OS hurts. I shouldn’t, but I also do look at other woman at church—I find a sense of spirituality / devotion attractive.
And then, in light of these sentences above, I can’t help but wonder where I went wrong. I prayed so hard for a woman to share my life and faith with—and both of those things seem very much in peril right now. Where did I go wrong? This still doesn’t seem real—that I have her parenting proposal still in my jacket from Friday night’s BDing.
I almost lost it during Communion at Mass—the Communion hymn was ‘Greensleeves / What Child Is This?’ I’ve NEVER liked that song, and I’ve also found it sad, but today it especially hit. I think about YS, and how he is so sweet, so loving, so innocent in all this, and my heart breaks for him. I was crying, but trying to keep it from OS (he was reading until we went in Communion line), and as he went in front of her in the line when it was our turn, my body chest was shaking and tears were going down my face as I heard ‘This, This is Christ the King...’. I’m tearing up right now.
And to cap it all off, the St. Michael the Archangel prayer always hits me hard recently, but especially the last few weeks.
Well......literally just a few minutes ago, our pastor (whom I respect very deeply and received Communion from this morning) just came in to the coffee shop and he saw me and recognized me. He went over to say Hi, and I started to ask him for prayers but the tears just came. He asked if there was anything he could pray for....and, between tears as he clasped my hand, I said my family, and then I just leveled with him and told him that my W wants to leave. He said he will pray for us, and he recommended to me to do or say whatever I need to to convince her to stay. Talk about timing.
YS woke up for a couple of feedings last night—I heard W say to YS that she hopes to go to bed because she is so tired. I just think of ‘grass is always greener...’—that this will NOT get easier in the event we split, but I’m not gonna tell her that.
Today will probably be grocery, taking down Christmas decorations. I hope it will involve me holding YS and watching football while W and OS do that. In the event that W and OS go out for something, I may take YS for a walk. Or maybe I’ll do that anyway.
I know this week I should have some preliminary conversations with a lawyer. I also need to prepare myself for things to get much, much darker—between us, but also within myself.
And I saw this in another post, but I need to not indulge that darkness, that resentment. Don’t let the bitterness win, and don’t demonize her.
But if this is a cry for help on her end—what do I make of this?
Stop thinking that your journey is ONLY for trying to save your M. Get out and get busy. I mean like jam pack your days with activities.
You will ride this rollercoaster for a while but the more you detach and GAL the better you will feel. I was initially posting all about my WW when I got here. Everyone was like, ST, good God man, you aren't doing anything beneficial, stop it stop it stop it and oh yeah, cut that friggin crap out!!!
You will feel down for a bit. But you have no idea how good you are going to start feeling when you get to the point where you are truly only focusing on yourself. You are going to be GAL and one day you are going to wake up. You are going to take a step back and take count on your feelings and you WILL say to yourself "wow, I feel really good about myself today!" And the next day you will feel even better and the next day etc.
Implement what you are being advised to do. It's not a gimmick, it's not a joke, it's not a magic bullet to make WW see the light and come running back to you.
Qll of the information and feedback is for your sole benefit. You will be AMOAFWL and you will know this because you will feel it. You will feel the future of your life pulling you forward. You will no longer feel the past dragging you down.
When you get to the point where you are AMOAFWL, you will be a strong, single, confident man smashing through life with positivity and you will look at your relationship and be like "wow, that was not beneficial to me".
These little thoughts of what could have been will be brief and will not create any emotions.
But the ONLY way to get to that point is by DBing like a madman. The faster you detach, the more you keep yourself busy, the faster you will feel better. Remember, you are living for you. Be that better man and show your kids how a mature adult picks up and takes their life into their own hands.
You can do it.
Speaking of headshots, words for me to live by. I just go back and forth on whether W will be with me at the end of this, and whether or not I do want that. I just don’t know right now.
Just want to respond to your clarification on the damage being done that I mentioned in your 3rd thread. What I ment was she is resentful of you and the MR whether it was you or self imposed. You are waffling back and forth on if you find her attractive, in love, or want to try and make it work. Your MR is damaged or in a state of disrepair. If she said to you tonight hey Bo forget what I said ILY let's make it work. You can't tell me there isn't some residual damage or hurt. That's what I ment.
I just want to say that after communion in mass when you go to kneel and pray is when I usually tear up without fail. Reading about you in communion and talking to the priest at the coffee shop brings up my own emotions and makes me tear up. It's ok, God didn't do this to you. People do this not God. Read my thread around the time of my work trip/party. I was wondering to God what I did to deserve this. Another Stander posted a bit of a wakeup call that I think was what initially got the ball rolling towards detachment. I am not fully detached, but I am now starting that journey.
I wish there was a way to get to know ppl IRL. I would call you and others on here to talk, commiserate, or show support. Heck, I have friends in SoCal I haven't seen in a while so I would even fly down to Cali for a couple of days to lend my support.
Keep praying and keep fighting the fight. If it ends you end with the dignity knowing you didn't quit.
Last edited by Twofeet; 01/06/1910:22 PM.
H(37) W(35) D8, D5, S3 T20, M13 BD 8/31/18 EA Discovered 9/13/18 Mediation 10/3/18 W files for D 10/12/18 W moves out 11/10/18 EA confirmed 12/25/18 D Final 1/10/19
Thank you for the thoughts. I sometimes wonder how I’m doing with all this—I feel like I’m all over the map.
If W said to me tonight (unlikely as it is) ILY, pls forgive me let’s make this work, I’m gonna have to say: “ILY. You’ve given me a lot to think about.” And then I’d probably have to put together a list of what to work on / ‘demands’ from her.
But oh yeah I’d be hurt. She did this to me because she’s depressed or whatever? You can’t exactly walk back an ILYBINILWY, and everything else that has happened in the last 10-12 months.
I know she has / had things that she’s been upset about towards me in the past—certain personality traits, bad habits, and the whole non-birth-control stance on my part. But I’m not abusive or adulterous, into drugs / alcohol, I don’t gamble and not into p0rn. NGS traits—yeah, I have at least some.
Sorry to make you tear up or ‘trigger’ (I kinda hate that word, but can’t think of anything else). I have my flaws and faults and ‘what I have done and what I have failed to do,’ but at the end of the day I’m a flawed human being like her and I’m trying to work out some things myself (like I tried before). But this definitely does not feel godly or ‘of God,’ at all. I’ve been trying to offer this up in prayer.
With respect to calling others, I wonder if people can exchange numbers via a private message—I don’t know if that would violate any terms, and I’m not looking to get myself (or anyone else) banned or anything like that.
I’ll keep praying, and I’ll keep fighting—but I’m not totally sure what I’m fighting for, if that makes sense. I do know that if she wants out, I won’t make it easy for her to just up and leave, I know that—if that makes sense.
GAL: Took YS on a walk in his stroller to pick up some Rx from the nearby pharmacy, and watched some football with him.
Tbh, I’m struggling with detaching, I think. W and I are very silent towards each other when in the car, and I’m having trouble becoming comfortable with it. When we’re home, it’s better—she tries to make small talk at times, but I’m really not having it; otherwise, W pretty much only talks to me when she needs something from me. W and I used to be such good friends—always talking, making snarky comments about things, chatting about stuff. None of that now, and it’s been that way for a while. Some of it I’m sure has been me, trying to detach and DB—not really initiating conversation with her unless she starts it. I know I probably sound so wishy-washy—wahhh we don’t talk in the car, but when she makes small talk I’m not having any of it and inside I think she’s a fake. 2x4 me for that if I need it.
W is just something else, really......In our condo complex, we have storage in the parking garage, and the storage cubbies are above ground, above the parking spaces for our cars. This is where we keep extra stuff, including boxes for Christmas decorations, among other things (and taking down Christmas will be a thing for next weekend, but not this weekend). However, this conversation took place:
W, earlier this afternoon: I need you to go downstairs and get the storage bins out of the cubbies....
Me, not terribly interested in doing too much for a W who is trying to fire me from my vocation as husband: Why don’t you just go and use a step-stool to get the bins?
W: [launches into a spiel about how she’d have to climb up on the step-stool and her arms are much shorter than mine (which is true—she’s 5’5’’, I’m 6’1’’), and how unsafe it would be for her and this and that and the other]
I’m sure this will be a topic next weekend, but I’m not interested in helping her.
Making dinner:
W: Okay, so I’ll go feed YS and you’ll need to make dinner. And so you’ll need to [launches into list of steps—it’s not complicated, but I want it written down]
Me: I need you to please send me the recipe
W: What, you think that is too much to remember?
Me, again: I need you to please send me the recipe
Serving dinner (I’ve also NOT been serving her dinner—she needs to get her own food, but OS and I have food on our plates—probably not civil and probably uncharitable, but she wants to fire me as husband then she needs to do things for herself like she will need to do if she goes through with this)
W [holding YS]: Oh, so I’m going to have to get my own salad and my own dinner?
Me: [reaches to take YS]
And at dinner, W is going on and on and on about how she’ll have to get both kids together in the AM plus herself and get everyone out the door on time and it’s going to be hard and so much work and this and that and the other. (I leave for work super early, because I like to beat SoCal traffic, I often have early morning meetings and I like to take advantage of the peace and quiet to get stuff done).
The moral of these stories: What exactly does she expect will happen if her S / D progresses as planned? She’ll have to get the storage bins or whatever ON HER OWN, she’ll have to do dinner ON HER OWN especially if YS is hungry and no one else will be there to make dinner for her or watch the boys, she’ll have to SERVE HER OWN dinner, and take care of herself and the boys ON HER OWN. Common theme? All she talks about is how tired she is right now (and yes, I know breast-feeding and child-rearing is hard work)—but you know what else is tiring? Working 40 hours a week, taking care of kids, and having no help because of your intentional choices. THAT IS TIRING. That is also what I have had to do when she goes on work trips (she works late, works super-early, goes away for days, weeks and even months at a time, like how she wants to go for training in the fall after she tries to D me).
To pick back up on a topic from yesterday, and once again, 2x4 me for this if I truly deserve it—I’m not sure how much fight I have for this MR right now. She seems pretty dead-set on moving on, and one of my projects for the first part of this week is initial calls and meetings with a lawyer. I know, I know—believe nothing they say, and only about half of what they do. It feels hopeless, though, and I wonder if she is giving me the chance to just get out, too. I know some on this board have said that I still have quite a bit to work with, but I just don’t know. It feels kinda hopeless, and I’m not totally sure what I really want, except for a W who will love, honor and cherish me and not up and leave because of The Sadz.
You need to get away from the house. You are way to available for her. She cannot feel your absence if you are there. Dont feel bad about waffling or wanting desperately to feel the love of your old W. Also, do not dwell on the mistakes you made in the past.
You cannot change the past. If you feel bad about the past, acknowledge your mistakes, ask for forgiveness and never repeat those mistakes again.
Also, welcome to being human. Everyone makes mistakes and makes bad decisions. It happens.
You cant fight for your marriage when the other spouse is not also fighting. You will just dig yourself deeper into depression doing that.
Be a ghost man. You put yourself in an extremely difficult situation where you end up wanting to give into the acts of service love language.
You can only benefit from acts of service when in an active loving M.
She is manipulating the holy crap out of you. She dropped BD, makes you feel like a failure and then expects you to just complete her honey do list?
Do not do anything for the sole benefit of her or to please her. Why would you want to give to someone who is not appreciative of the giving? Why continue to run around at her direction when she has taken you for granted?
You are going to get stuck smack in the middle of feeling horrible all the time if you keep this up.
My WW was complaining the other day how I haven't been helping her etc. I told her "I am not here for your convenience, I am not your friend that's here to jump at every opportunity to help you."
I am not her friend, I am her husband. But she doesn't want me as her H. So why in the world would I keep up the acts of service for someone who would treat me like I dont matter anymore?
Go read the boundaries post. Also sit down and plan two weeks of GAL, part of it alone and part with the kid. I am either out all night, every night, with friends, alone or with my kids. I come home after WW is in bed.
M:16 T:21 H(me) 38 WW: 38 S11 D16 D19 Red Flags of A: March 2018 ILYBNILWY: August 4, 2018 Moved out of MBR: September 24, 2018 BD/Confirmation of A: October 31, 2018 D Filed: March 27, 2019
The grass of leaving me (to be by herself, to be with OM, if he exists, or whatever), may not always be greener.
Here's the thing, she doesn't want you right now. So yes, if S or D happens then for her the grass WILL be greener because all she wants is "not you" and that is what she will get. I think a lot of LBS's think that the WAS just needs a quick wake-up call and she will see the folly of her ways. No, it never works that way. She has a lengthy process to go through that will take many long months or maybe even years, and it likely will not even start until after S. Her views about you will eventually change but for now they are set and they will not change soon.
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And then, in light of these sentences above, I can’t help but wonder where I went wrong.
I think you know that and are working on it. I think what you're really asking is why did it happen to you? But it's not just you. It happened to you, to me, to hundreds of others posting here every day, to thousands and tens of thousands that don't post here. We're not being punished anymore than someone who has cancer is being punished. This is life, bad things happen and the measure of who we are is not what we're like when things are perfect, it's what we do when the bad things happen.
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YS woke up for a couple of feedings last night—I heard W say to YS that she hopes to go to bed because she is so tired. I just think of ‘grass is always greener...’—that this will NOT get easier in the event we split, but I’m not gonna tell her that.
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And at dinner, W is going on and on and on about how she’ll have to get both kids together in the AM plus herself and get everyone out the door on time and it’s going to be hard and so much work and this and that and the other. (I leave for work super early, because I like to beat SoCal traffic, I often have early morning meetings and I like to take advantage of the peace and quiet to get stuff done).
Do you not help with the nighttime feedings and getting the kids ready in the morning? I kind of get the impression that you are trying to punish her and "teach her a lesson" in every way you can think of, but this is all probably backfiring on you. DB'ing is showing her what she will be MISSING. IE, if she gets up at 2am and you tell her "I've got this, why don't you go back to sleep" well THAT is showing her something she will be missing after S. But if she gets up every time and you never help, and she gets up in the morning and takes care of the kids and you are already gone because you don't want to be inconvenienced with some bad traffic, what are you showing her that she would miss? Nothing it sounds like.
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Today will probably be grocery, taking down Christmas decorations. I hope it will involve me holding YS and watching football while W and OS do that.
So again, you leave her to do all the work? What's she going to miss?
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W and I are very silent towards each other when in the car, and I’m having trouble becoming comfortable with it. When we’re home, it’s better—she tries to make small talk at times, but I’m really not having it
Sounds like there is a lot of bitterness and resentment between the two of you. This is NOT loving detachment. Read Sandi's rules, that is your roadmap on how to behave. There is NOTHING in Sandi's rules about being cold and indifferent.
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She’ll have to get the storage bins or whatever ON HER OWN, she’ll have to do dinner ON HER OWN
It sounds like you don't give her much credit for being able to function on her own. You might be surprised at just how capable she is.
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especially if YS is hungry and no one else will be there to make dinner for her or watch the boys, she’ll have to SERVE HER OWN dinner, and take care of herself and the boys ON HER OWN.
Only when she has the kids. On the days you have the kids she won't have to worry about it at all. That's probably what she's thinking, that she'll have a lot more freedom then she has now.
Here's the thing, she doesn't want you right now. So yes, if S or D happens then for her the grass WILL be greener because all she wants is "not you" and that is what she will get. I think a lot of LBS's think that the WAS just needs a quick wake-up call and she will see the folly of her ways. No, it never works that way. She has a lengthy process to go through that will take many long months or maybe even years, and it likely will not even start until after S. Her views about you will eventually change but for now they are set and they will not change soon.
You are correct about that—she’s effectively fired me as H, and I need to remember that.
Do you not help with the nighttime feedings and getting the kids ready in the morning? I kind of get the impression that you are trying to punish her and "teach her a lesson" in every way you can think of, but this is all probably backfiring on you. DB'ing is showing her what she will be MISSING. IE, if she gets up at 2am and you tell her "I've got this, why don't you go back to sleep" well THAT is showing her something she will be missing after S. But if she gets up every time and you never help, and she gets up in the morning and takes care of the kids and you are already gone because you don't want to be inconvenienced with some bad traffic, what are you showing her that she would miss? Nothing it sounds like.
I do help with nighttime, where I can. YS breast-feeds and it’s really difficult for him to take a bottle, otherwise I would. Could I try it—well, that might entail lots of screaming / carrying on from YS (at least at first), and that would not help anyone. She’s asked me that when she is around that she feeds him. In that respect, I carry out her wishes. What I do at night is diaper-change, and if he won’t go back to sleep, I have often stayed up with him and walked him around the house to help him get back to sleep.
I help pick up the boys from school / daycare, and when she goes away on work trips, I’m responsible for everyone. Part of my thinking with respect to getting to school early is that I try to get as much done early as I can so I can be more present to everyone later on, when I get home, in the evening.
Sounds like there is a lot of bitterness and resentment between the two of you. This is NOT loving detachment. Read Sandi's rules, that is your roadmap on how to behave. There is NOTHING in Sandi's rules about being cold and indifferent.
Yeah.....I need to look at that again. I’ve been trying to detach, but I’m not doing it correctly. What I’ve been trying to do is not start conversations unless she does—or did I misunderstand that piece of advice? This is in reference to the 37 rules, correct? I know I’ve been struggling with showing her happiness / contentment, and that is defintiely something I need to be more intentional about.
It sounds like you don't give her much credit for being able to function on her own. You might be surprised at just how capable she is.
She can be plenty capable—one of the things that originally attracted me to her. What I’m struggling with right now is why she wants things from me when she’s trying to fire me as H. She does love being on her own for work trips—but that is ON HER OWN, no me, no OS—that’s it. She also made a big deal about wanting me to stay home for 3.5 weeks on paid paternity leave, which I did. Once again, for me, it’s the disconnect—she wanted me around, but even after that time period, she floated the S / D back in mid-October (not even a week after I went back to work).
Thanks, A/S. You have given me a lot to think about, and I mean that.
