Finding the Balance then Tipping the Scale (TWO)

[Adam04]

Adam, it's time for some truth darts my man. FIGHT FOR YOUR KIDS. You have two sons, 6 and 11? They need their dad right now far more than they need their mom.

This is the best advise you have ever received. Ignore every other piece of advise you have ever been given before you ignore this one.

What is best for your kids is best for you.

Your relationship with your kids is the most important thing. Do not let anyone take this away from you.

You can handle it.

I respect everyone's support and advice given. I won't need to ignore anything. Taking it all to heart, especially this one.

I will make it work. I know I can.

Thank you so much for this.

W:"Bla bla bla you said bla bla"
H:"I decided my relationship with my kids is more important than....."

or


H:"I changed my mind"

Came home and told her the second. (I'll use the H: W: format a little bit for some of the flow of the convo)

I said "W, I changed my mind. I thought about it and I'm okay with whatever happens to us but I am not okay with only spending a couple of days with the boys out of the week, and I spoke to someone who went through this and said it was actually 2 days out of 2 weeks so I am definitely not okay with this."

W said, Yeah okay I wanted you to spend more time with them. So this means I will be paying you child support right since its 50/50?

I said "I think so but I don't know. I know when they were going to be with you, I would have paid X amount of dollars. Yeah I want 50/50, you good?"

W said Yeah, I'm good. I thought it was this XYZ amount since I looked online. SO this means when we D I wont be able to pay your share of this and that along with the child support."

I said "Oh okay, well when we get to that point we can figure out the financial stuff and I wanted to let you know so when we D we can see about being fair with splitting everything 50/50. I told her when it comes to that point our bills will be split and the lawyers will work out the agreement.

W "50/50 split?"

I said "yeah, yesterday we spoke on the mortgage and my car note, the new house, they will look at everything, our savings, retirement, stocks, and all that"

W" I think we should talk about that before we get lawyers involved and make some sort of agreement beforehand. I don't want this to get ugly. I think I need to speak to a lawyer about this."

( At this point she was getting a little emotional, worried, and frantic.)

I said, "I agree, please let me know when you do and I will see about getting one as well and we can have them coordinate."

W" Well my stocks I was going to use to fund the house and I worked hard for that I don't think you are entitled to that"

I said, "Okay, this is why we would want to get the lawyers involved, I don't know what will happen but I want what is fair for the kids. They will look at everything and let us know what is fair."

(That's the jest of the convo, summarizing below)

I made sure to not agree to anything. She left to go eat out with her sisters. Somewhere in that conversation I remember talking about our debts and assets, and savings. I told her I think everything gets looked at but I don't know what will be considered or omitted. I told her I'm sure we could make agreements through the lawyers.

She was upset like I was touching her savings, her retirement, -especially- her stock options. Sell of her stocks was going to the house and if she has to split that with me she said she would be in a bad financial spot. I told her I totally understand, I was looking at living in an apartment just yesterday and I broke it down how much money I would have left at the end of every month and I said I was okay with this financial aspect of it, and you know what she did? She didn't hear a word I said and I thought she would be like that. It was all about her. She even said these words "This is not what I was planning to happen"

This was tough because I understand the worry of having a place for the kids. She was callous because I was busting this bubble of hers.

I told her I would rather tell her now than wait til end of May and spring it on her. She said she appreciated it.

That's how the convo went down.

Next step is to look for a lawyer who will fight for me on the 50/50 custody.

Instead of moving out early, I plan to stay here now. I need to save up for paying a retainer up front. I think that is a realistic move and then looking at the apartments I drove out to on Christmas day by her place.

Keep it short and civil? No agreements unless through a lawyer? I'll say I need time to think about things.

Please keep the advice coming and any insight is greatly welcomed.

[Adam04]

Eat that oatmeal haha. I ate oatmeal everyday for almost 2 years straight during my weight loss journey. I would buy rolled oats in bulk from the health store and cook them up and put peanut butter in them, dab of honey. I wouldn't eat instant oats. Then i switched over to just eggs as oatmeal had run its course . Are you counting your macros?

lol the oatmeal will be part of my wakeup routine.

for the macros... naw, not that hard core, I have 2 brothers who are beasts working out in the gym all the time and several childhood friends in another town who compete in their local contests. It's important and am headed in that direction when I say balanced diet. I had gotten my body used to skipping lunch. I noticed I am sometimes craving something sweet so I need to look into the macro diet to help curb that. Once I meal prep. My bros meal prep and ration out their macros. Right now its getting into the routine over the last several months and sticking to the habit. If its something outside what I normally eat, it is then about portion control. Developing discipline over time. I don't know if I am that disciplined to look at it by numbers. I see salmon, olive oil, avocados, turkey, eggs, salads, veggies, nuts and I eat them in moderation.

[FlySolo]

Hi Adam

The signature lines disappear once you log in but I think it is R2C's or AS signature which says "What is right for my kids is right for me ".

If your W was being difficult, using the children to manipulate the sitch and spewing rubbish about you at every given opportunity, then my view would be 100% with AS. Fight. Fight like nothing else matters because nothing else does.

But your W is not like that. She sounds, strange as it might sound, decent. So the question you need to ask yourself is "what is best for my kids". If you honestly think that having two homes can work, then fight for that. I have seen it work and seen it work well. But, the logistics do add complexity and, as you have seen, the fight will add stress to the delicate balance you and your W seem to have developed as co-parents. But patience and the love for your kids will make it easy to manage the logistics and you and your W will regain the balance in time (like I said, I think you are both good people).

For people like us, you, me, your W my H, it is never about the money and it is never about the fight. It is about our kids. Your W was willing to lie so you didn't have to pay maintenance. You were willing to give up time with your children so they could stay in their home.

As for what happens when OM or OW enter the picture. Well, I like to think that my H and I know and respect the other enough to get past that. My H will always be my childrens father, whether he only sees them on the weekend or has them 50 pc of the time. I will always be there mother. We respect each other enough not to let someone else take on those roles. We are their parents. This will never change.

It is not how much time spent we spend with our children that makes us parents. Both of us would drop everything to be with them. When we are with them we are with them. At least one of us is at every school event. My H once refused to fly a plane because there was a lock down at D9's school and the school wouldn't release why. He would not take off until he knew she was safe. (Turns out there was a man seen with a knife in the school down the road. D9's school locked down as a precaution).

Again, ask yourself. What is right for my kids. What type of woman is my W. Ask yourself this question honestly because only you can answer it.

As an aside, my H was raised by a stepdad. His parents D when he was 11 and his stepdad moved in a year later. His biological dad was the kind of dad who would call up 10 mins before pick up and say he wasn't coming. My H has never considered his SD his dad even though he was around 100% of the time partly because his mum never encouraged him to. His SD is a good man (my kids consider him there grandad) but it was clear to him that he was not their dad - MIL raised the kids, she disciplined them, she gave them cuddles when they were sad and helped them through every minor and major decision. MIL made sure H knew who his dad was even going so far as to make excuses for him "he is stuck at work", "he isn't feeling very well". My H idolised his dad until he was well into his 20's (when the truth came out).

PS - you are not eating enough !!!

[Ready2Change]

Separate the divorce into different buckets.


1) Emotional-detach-set her free- no R talk
2) Parenting plan / parenting arrangement 50/50 no more no less.
3) Financial - Current assets
4) Financial - Child support (there are standard formulas)
5) other buckets as needed



Two lawyers in an adversarial fight will be very expensive and financially devistating for the family. This should be your last resort for things you can't agree on.
One lawyer to help mediate is better. If needed, ask W to recommend 3 and you will pick one.
Before that, You should do mediation. Same thing, have W recommend 3 and you pick one.
Before that, get written agreements on things you do agree on.

There is a thing called a balance sheet. Your stuff/ her stuff with the values. Some place on it you equalize.

Simple example: You only have two cars. W drives one. you drive one.

Option 1)
You keep one she keeps one. You both agree. Financial done.
Both agree to this in divorce paperwork. All done.

Option 2)
Someone thinks one car is 2X more valuable than the other. You both agree. You keep one she keeps one. The person keeping the more valuable car gets 50% of the difference in cash from the other to "equalize".

Both agree to this in divorce paperwork. One person writes the other a check. Check clears. All done.

Option 3)
There is a disagreement about the values of the cars.
One person assigns the value. The other picks if they want the car or the value.

Option 4) mediation.

Option 5) 1 lawyer

Option 6) 2 lawyers

Option 7) Ordered by a judge at hearing.





You both can have lawyers available for legal advise during this process, Just be aware they are in the game for your money.

[Adam04]

FS,

I woke up, read that and felt a flutter of feelings. I started to initially doubt myself and questioned what I had done. My insecurities and fear of the unknown was starting to emerge. Was I being too impulsive or am I reckless?

I thought maybe I should have given myself more time. Was this to build up more confidence to face the unknown or talk myself down and out of something?

I wasn't thinking about the convo I had with W, it was about the convo I had with my son. It's no longer about W and I, it's my continuous relationship with my children as their father. I was afraid I may have jumped the gun with him, S11...making promises too soon that I couldn't keep.

I don't know what the logistics will be over the summers and how they will be shuffled from her place, daycare, afterschool programs, to my place but one thing still remains is that I want more time with my kids and will fight for that. The biggest fear here is failure when it comes to my boys. I don't want for them to think I never fought for them or that they were never good enough.

Today I talked to W again about the finances, she was wanting to make some agreements before talking to lawyers. We discussed it and are on the same page that it's best for her to get legal advice for now to help ease her mind and 50/50 is the minimum. I told her once she gets the facts and if she has a plan, she can discuss it with me and I can run it by a lawyer too.

FS, my wife is a good person but for now she has joined the dark side. She offered to pay me back child support and the courts wouldn't have to know. She is willing to lie and do things for me. I am by the book, rigid like that to a fault. I told her I am not going to do anything under the table.

Yes, I am relying on caloric deficit for weight loss. Emotions have helped to drive this. As I am no longer an emotional wreck, I am stabilizing and I have to change up my game. I am beginning to eat a little more, but that's about it... oh and adding oatmeal.. ugh.

R2C,

Thank you for helping me separate that. Makes it easier to look at and digest.

I'm going to look for these worksheets and use this format with W so that we can tackle this together, not immediately.

This is what I plan to do. Not bring it up until she does. Once she talks about it, I will have researched these worksheets and kinda have gotten an idea what to separate or not. I think once we approach this ( brain fart on a good word here) reasonably, amicably, and fairly, I will feel better. It should help her feel better too.


Thank you so much for the support and advice everyone.

[Adam04]

I felt that vomit inducing fear this morning when it comes to the unknown and my boys. There is tremendous fear there of the uncertainty. I looked for after school programs and so far nothing helpful. I saw places like tae twon do that was out of the way. Calling their future schools may be easier. If there was a fear of losing W, it pales in comparison to this for my sons. There was/is grief and sadness but this is different.

I just want everything to work out with :

Kids before and after school programs

Having enough time before and after work to drop them off and pick them up

Summer programs

What to do when I need to work overtime and who can I rely on besides these programs.

I also need to make sure I get approved at the apartments close by W house.

I don’t want to fail. I need to let the initial worries of not knowing subside.

Plan to consult with another lawyer or two and find out more about this new city , schools, and what they have to offer so I don’t feel this worry.

[FlySolo]

Hi Adam,

I know the fear can be paralysing. Go find out the facts first. Most schools now recognise there is a large percentage of children whose parents both work. Other options:

Childminders: I don't know if they would be called the same thing over there, but these are people (normally mums) who look after small groups (around 5) of children from the same school after school. They have to be registered with the appropriate authority, complete weekly forms etc and are checked against the appropriate registers, The school should be able to recommend some.

Before and after school clubs: Breakfast and afternoon clubs that take the kids to school and pick them up. They do homework with them, arts and crafts and play games. They will also feed them breakfast and a light supper. Again, the school should be able to recommend one or two.

Nanny: Picks the children up and looks after them until you get home. Will do light housework, washing for the kids, feed the children, do home work with them etc. Pricey, but you might be able to find one who can work with your childcare schedule - e.g. on for one week, off for another. I know someone who nanny shares - i.e. she has her for one week, and then she goes to another family for the other week. You can go google agencies etc which will be able to help you out.

Aupair: Someone who lives with you and helps look after the children. They normally get paid an allowance (here it's around £100 per week) plus room and board. this might be a bit harder due to the visa restrictions over there. The au pair thing is s 'cultural exchange' which means their primary goal is to experience a new culture - so what you get is normally young girls (19-25) looking to live in a different country with no training and no experience. I've had four, two who were brilliant and two who were a nightmare. It is a cr@p shoot, I would never do it again, and I don't think it's right for you, but thought I'd mention it. Also, I know someone who got an aupair through a charity at her church - someone who was looking to go to school but couldn't afford college and to put a roof over her head. That might be an option.

You've told me (and others here) not to let the fear take hold of you. Acknowledge it, understand it's source, then get up and do something about it. You are a good dad and you will find a way.

FS

[Adam04]

Hey FS,

Thanks for the support and list. The reason why I posted that here was to help address the fear.

For many things, they stem back to our childhood experiences and for me, I grew up in a broken home shuffled from place to place sometimes 2-3 times a year. My step dad was rarely in my mothers life, but when he was, we uprooted because of him, when he wasn't (because he was physically abusive) my mother kept moving to run until he was locked up for 30 years. When he was released it brought panick back for everyone.

I've always known children to live under one roof with the mother in a split home, never saw men step up to have 50/50 until I came here.

I thought if they were in one home I would have certain freedom as their dad to visit when I wanted but in seeing the visitation calendar ( and words here especially ) and knowing my wife gave no chance to recon for the kids, I can not take her on her word. I need something in place for the minimal 50/50.

I will make it work. Need to put thought into it and prepare. I knew of individuals who would live in, there is one lady who helped raise relatives kids and she did that for about 100 week. Live in. I saw other individual people and knew some who went into their own business from my kids daycare but they are not in the area I'll be moving to and I feel like I need to trust these people who are listed through the school. I saw that through the ISD after school program list.

Over time it will get better. I know this. It's in the beginning so the feelings surge but over time they will be manageable and once things become a little more concrete, I'll know how to handle the day to day.

[AnotherStander]

Adam, she may get a wakeup call when she talks to a lawyer. Sounds like she thinks that because she has been making more money than you then she deserves more in a D settlement, but that is not how it works at all. If she had her stocks prior to the M then they would not be part of the settlement, but anything she acquired after the M is subject to being split.

Also I'm curious if there's been any talk of mediation? That's a way to settle everything without paying huge lawyer bills and battling it out in court. It sounds like the two of you are amenable to settling things peacefully but are just not sure what is "fair". A mediator can definitely help with that.

[Adam04]

Hi AS,

Yes, we both agree to work together and want to know what's fair. Once she gathers her facts and presents them to me and I verify through my own consult, we can establish what's fair based on those facts through mediation. We both agreed we didn't want two lawyers trying to battle each other out.