My wife and I have been married over 10 years and together for 17. I am 38 and she is 36. We have three children (9 yo son and twin 7yo daughters). We have had sexual problems prior to getting married that pretty much cut her off from wanting sex because of pain, etc. She and I pretty much stayed at home a lot with young children after we got married since within the first year of marriage she got pregnant. She was a stay at home wife/mother and I work at a great job and make good money. We have a nice house that is currently getting some patio addition done.
Fast forward to August 2017. We started hanging out at the neighbors house when the guy's son that is just a little younger than us invited us over. This guy's dad is an alcoholic. We started hanging out over there when his son built a fire pit and just wanted to hang out since he had a son my son's age. The neighbor's daughter also had a daughter that was my daughters' ages. We started to drink and my wife started to become more social. When she started drinking, she would start "dirty dancing" and just be flirtatious. This was very concerning to me and as the months went on, I thought maybe she had something for my neighbor's son who was single. I accused her of liking him and started snooping in her phone, phone bill, etc. Nothing really was found but for some reason I was determined in my mind that she was. This continued with other friends that went over there too.
My wife started to work out during this time and wanted to lose a lot of weight and look good. Started talking about tattoos (doesn't have any) and also plastic surgery (her nose or breasts).
Then she had a girlfriend of hers that started to hang out over there. This girlfriend is married and has two boys my kids ages. She is definitely in an unhappy marriage and my wife had told me that her friend was seeing another guy. This concerned me because my wife liked to start hanging out with her and go places and I didn't like that my wife was hanging out with a "friend" who is openly cheating on her husband.
The drinking go worse and worse for both of us. We were going over every weekend and getting drunk. Sometimes we would have fights. I started anti-depressants and the alcohol I think made me angry and yell and scream. She started going out with her girlfriend to bars. Sometimes not getting home until 2 or 3am and she would be passed out or vomiting when we got home. Now during this time, our sex life was much better as the alcohol did not make her feel pain as she used too. However, she still wasn't into it and told me that she did it for me. Well it is kind of hard to get excited to have sex with my wife knowing she was just doing it for me and most of the time just laid there.
I started to mention things like a threesome and she asked "oh yea? with who?". I mentioned her best friend who I did not like and still don't care for. I was drunk and not thinking but I did mention this maybe back in April or May 2018. During this same time, she was looking to go back to work and do something. She ended up getting a job through the school district and would start in August 2018. We went to a concert and she wanted to try weed for the first time with her best friend. It upset me because I can't do to drug testing for my job. She was about to start a new job and didn't know if there was drug testing.
The arguments got worse and during our 10 year anniversary in July 2018, we went away without kids. During this time, I drank a crap load the first night there and while we were doing things, I mentioned a threesome again. Not sure why but I did. This upset her and we dealt with the rest of the trip but it was not the best but not the worse time together.
August 2018, there was a blow up at the neighbor's house where the father and son got into a huge argument and a few days later, the neighbor quit drinking. He has not drank since then (good for him). Since he stopped drinking, we stopped hanging over there and my wife started to hang out even more with her "bestie". At this time, she also started frequenting bars, wanted to join a band as a singer. Said she like to go out to "escape" the kids and ust be social. I was worried since her best friend was always cheating and flirting that this was not a good idea.
Sometime in this time period she went out for drinks were her Zumba friends. She had three very potent margaritas at this mexican restaurant. She got a car ride home from her best friend even though she had contacted me before the third one asking if I would come get her. I needed my car the next day for work. We got into a huge argument and she walked away from the house. My neighbor's son and I look everywhere for 2 hours and couldn't find her. I finally had to call the sheriff and right after I got off the phone, she appeared. The sheriff came and talked to her and left. She was really drunk.
In September, we had a large argument after she stayed out late and we had a big fight. She swore nothing was going on with anyone and her best friend does have problems but it is not hers and not to worry. I am just paranoid and lack self confidence. I apologized to her in an email telling her that I love her and I will start to trust her and I would start to get help. I called and got into individual therapy. At this same time, I asked her to do marriage counseling but she said she wanted me to get individual help first.
During this time, she was very secretive on her phone, installed snapchat. She was always on the phone and hiding it and I got paranoid. I was begging for attention from her. She was always talking to other people to include her best friend. We hardly talked about anything except work, the kids or the house improvements.
In October 2018, I must have mentioned a threesome to her best friend who was always flirting with me and saying stuff like "can I f your wife?" and such. My wife said it upset her best friend and I told her I would apologize. My wife said it is ok to flirt and such with her but the threesome stuff needs to stop. Keep in mind, I don't like her best friend. Well I apologized to her since i made her uncomfortable and her friend told me that it didn't make her uncomfortable. Then I told her that my wife said we could flirt, whatever that meant. She stated that it meant whatever we wanted it to. Her best friend then told me how my wife told her how good I was in bed and how she always wanted to kiss me at my neighbor's house. She said every other guy would flirt back with her but me. She started flirting big time on text messages and saying how she was attracted to me and my wife. She drew me in and I started flirting back.
In early November, my wife said she was going out with her friend. This is the time when she was looking to join a band. She sent me texts saying that the one bar was not busy and they were going to another. I said have fun. I was trying to trust her. She came home at a reasonable time (before midnight). The next morning, I see on Facebook that her best friend was at a clock painting party until 10pm at night based on the pictures she was tagged in. I questioned her on who she was with. She said her friend. I showed her the post and looked at her phone. She was with one of the band guys that has told her she is pretty, and other crap. I was pissed. He lied to his girlfriend too. They quit talking because that guy wanted to be with his girlfriend and that ended. I think she was looking for emotional support.
I couldn't get in until the first week of November 2018 to an appointment. During this time, she and I were drinking more and more and fighting or arguing every once in a while but made up and such. One of my daughters in November 2018 had to go to the hospital for a week and it was a stressful time. My wife's best friend stayed the night right after we got back from the hospital with my daughter after drinking too much one night. I tried to do things with my wife not knowing she was there and my wife pretty much shut me down at like 5 in the morning. I went downstairs to get water and her friend woke up. I said morning to her and next thing you know we were making out. She gave me a bj and I was so shamed that I didn't go back up to our bedroom. I went to the basement to sleep the rest of the night and o get over my hangover as I drank a lot that night too but still not an excuse. I told her best friend the next day that it was a mistake. We shouldn't have done that. She asked why I felt so guilty. I was perplexed...I was like this is your best friend and my wife.
I started counseling but never told my counselor about what I did with her best friend in November 2018. My wife and I were up and down in December until one night we had an argument and I was so drunk that I don't recall that she tried to kill her self via car in the garage. She didn't follow through with it (supposedly my son heard us arguing and I thought she went to the neighbor's house to get away) He open the door to garage and asked mommy what she was doing. She turns car off and stops the suicidal thought.
In January 2019, her friend came over to our neighbor's house and we were drinking and playing pool. She ate some type of weed cookie as well. Next thing I know we were back at our house and a threesome took place between us. My wfie said she was surprised how easily I got into it with her best friend. But my wife wasn't upset, etc. Her best friend started sending pics of herself to me and my wife. My wife would send pics of her and me back to her.
Fast forward to a couple weeks later and the wife and her friend went out for the 3rd week in a row. They went to a Pampered Chef part and then went for drinks. It was right after our 17 years of being together. At midnight, I told her to be safe and don't stay out too late. At 1:37AM I looked and she had not been active on facebook for over an hour. She was always on phone. At 2AM, I tried calling her after 2 hours of inactivity. No answer from her or her friend. I knew where they were based on the snapchat last location of her best friend. The place closed at 2:30AM. I waited and then drove there to that location at about 2:50 and drove around the parking lot for 20 minutes. Never found the car. She was inactive for 3 hours. I was worried. Then at 3:16am I get a message saying they just left the very place I am at. I was angry. They were not there, I didn't see the car at all and I drove by every car in the lot. And the way they came home based on my wife's messages were not the way a normal person would have came home from that location.
Then the dreaded January 29th day came just after that weekend. The message of a sad face with "I love you". I then messaged her what that meant. She said she was lost but she loved me. We went upstairs and she told me she was just confused. I asked if there was a guy. She said there was no one else. I broke down and finally came clean of what I did with her best friend. She left that night to be with a friend. We talked a little the next day but then she would get upset and say she was done. She said she was going to a girlfriends house on saturday to sunday. She said the drinking and yelling and screaming is what is making her not want to do this anymore with me.
My next appointment with my counselor on the 6 of Feb, I told her everything that had happen. Then that next Saturday, my wife mentioned she had met a guy back in mid-January. It started out as friends but she said she loves him after just a few weeks. I am so lost. I am heartbroken. She met this guy before I even told her about the bj.
Her parents talked to her and said she would quit talking to the guy and her best friend which were both bad influences. This past weekend we went on a date. She got really drunk. I stopped drinking on the 29th as the 28th was my last drink. In the middle of our date, she was texting people. I looked and saw it was her best friend and the guy who she had met. I was hurt. She asked him to pick her up at the bar we were at watching live music. I am hurt.
She came back the next day and told me she was sorry. She don't remember much of everything that happen. She had mentioned that he can't get it up all the time but she is ok with that because of their emotional connection. She complains that I just wanted or want sex all the time. We don't have an emotional connection. She then said that her individual therapist (who she has only went to one time) said that she needs to take care of herself. She told me that she wants to stay with me and the kids, get her master's and try marriage counseling. She don't think it is repairable. I asked her about the guy. She said that she is going to keep talking to him (possible see him from time to time). I need to decide if I can deal with that. I told ehr divorce is an option, or working through our marriage through counseling but without the affair is another option. I told her keeping him is a nonstarter. But I have not made any decisions or ultimatums at this point.
I think she is going through a midlife crisis because the kids are older and more independent. She has a job that doesn't make a lot of money. She has a lot of the signs:
hanging out with a party animal that concerns her husband
rewriting the history of us through "I don't know if I was ever happy" or I married you because I didn't think I would find anyone better
more critical of me and impatience with me and the kids
less interested in emotional or sexual intimacy with me but still improving her looks and talking about other ways to look better
"it's time to put her first"
she keeps saying she is confused and doesn't know what she wants. The "I love you but I am not in love with you"
She is secretive on the phone.
I am trying how to proceed to fix our marriage. I love her and I know this is not really her. This guy she is with is not anything of what she is interested in a guy. She admits this as much. It is an escape. But I can't repair my marriage if she is talking to him but willing to do marriage counseling. The marriage counseling does not start until the end of March. I don't know what to do. I want to keep our marriage and family together. I could threaten divorce but that may push her away. I told her I won't make a decision on what I want to do until after a couple therapy appointments that are int he next couple weeks. So no ultimatum right now. We are talking and not arguing.
We spoke at great lengths yesterday. She even said that most couples would just go right to divorce. But we always are able to talk and be open. I have to admit that I shut down emotionally and did n't realize she was looking for talk the past couple months or years. I think we can reconcile but I don't know how I can compete with the "puppy love" stage with this guy she has only known for a couple weeks. She said she is in love but I know she really isn't. What do I do?!?!?!
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
you have a long journey ahead of you. I hope you take time to think about the many unhealthy behaviors you have been engaged in. You need to save yourself and figure out how to live in a healthy way. I see you making lots of excuses like "the alcohol made me do this" or "I must have mentioned a threesome" or "she drew me in" or "the next thing you know we were making out". These statements are examples of you minimizing and making excuses for your behavior, or what we say around here, they are "BS". If you want someone else to be accountable, don't you think anyone could see how you can't even hold yourself accountable?
You don't like your W seeking another male's attention, yet, on multiple occasions, you were asking her to open your marriage to another woman. This is insane! You add a toxic friend, drug and alcohol abuse, well you see what happened. You ignore every major red flag.
Your W seems to understand things a bit. She knows she is confused - how can she not be with everything I wrote above. She knows drinking and yelling is horrible for you two. You want to label her as a MLC, not sure why, but what about your own issues? Your W is open to marriage counseling, but her IC is right: you both need to focus on yourselves and your own individual problems. You both need to get sober. You both have some habits that need work. The positive is that these things are all within your control!!!! You can change this!
As for the OM you put yourself in a tough spot. Why is it OK for you to go outside of the marriage but not her? Your actions are going to combat your words time and time again on this. Good luck, keep posting!
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
hanging out with a party animal that concerns her husband
rewriting the history of us through "I don't know if I was ever happy" or I married you because I didn't think I would find anyone better
more critical of me and impatience with me and the kids
less interested in emotional or sexual intimacy with me but still improving her looks and talking about other ways to look better
"it's time to put her first"
she keeps saying she is confused and doesn't know what she wants. The "I love you but I am not in love with you"
She is secretive on the phone.
Wow Anthony. First, Sorry you are here. However you have come to the right place. This place is a great place to get advice and support. Just realize that we are blunt, and we will call things like we see them. So buckle here goes.
What the heck are you thinking?!?!? Bad choices after bad choices. BJ from her BF? A threesome? Drinking to the point of getting black-out drunk?! And then making excuses for all of this behavior.
I'll be honest with you Anthony, I am way more concerned about your 3 kids than I am about your MR. Sorry to be blunt, but let's take score here:
- You and your wife are drunk all the time. - You parade other drunks in and out of of the house. - You have a BJ in the house with your 3 kids sleeping from your W's BF. - You have a threesome with your kids in the house. - You mention drugs many times, I assume some of this is done with the kids in the house. - Loud arguments about the above with the kids in the house, admitting that they have heard the arguments.
All of that sickens me to my core. Who is watching out for these kids? You are ruining their childhood. You are setting them up for lives of depression, and drug and alcohol abuse. The are seeing both parents being promiscuous. Which means they will parent children of their own before they are ready.
Then you post this list:
Quote
hanging out with a party animal that concerns her husband
rewriting the history of us through "I don't know if I was ever happy" or I married you because I didn't think I would find anyone better
more critical of me and impatience with me and the kids
less interested in emotional or sexual intimacy with me but still improving her looks and talking about other ways to look better
"it's time to put her first"
she keeps saying she is confused and doesn't know what she wants. The "I love you but I am not in love with you"
She is secretive on the phone.
Do you want me to list the behaviors you are exhibiting, and that list would just be FROM YOUR OWN WORDS!!! Sexting with her BF. BJ from her BF. Drinking to the point of passing out. Threesome. Mentioning threesomes. Oh, and worst of all, being a HORRIBLE father.
Anthony you have a lot of cleaning up to do. You have NO ROOM to talk about your W's behavior. You are not innocent here, not even close. So don't play the victim.
Now the MR advice.
This stuck out to me:
Quote
I accused her of liking him and started snooping in her phone, phone bill, etc. Nothing really was found but for some reason I was determined in my mind that she was. This continued with other friends that went over there too.
And it only got worse from there as far as your lack of self-esteem and confidence. Let me ask you, how many women do you think would find the above quote attractive? Whiny, snooping, accusatory? If you did that in your first month of dating your W would have run the other way faster than Usane Bolt.
You need to keep going to IC. YOu need to continue NOT drinking. You need to be a father to your 3 kids above all else. You need to stop all of the enabling behaviors (yes, doing the same things she is doing is ENABLING). You need to put those 3 precious kids first and stop making excuses for your own terrible choices.
Your W will either join you in that journey or she won't. But you need to straighten up, save yourself, and hopefully save those kids in the process.
I will keep you and your kids in my prayers. But stop the bad behaviors and start doing the RIGHT things.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I agree that I have had a lot of issues with drinking. I want to make some things clear. I have not done drugs and no drugs have entered my house. My wife has done some with her friend at the neighbor's house.
Also, the drunk being blacked out is not me. My wife has come home many times passed out. One time passed out in the mudroom at 230 in the morning laying on a puppy pad that was pissed and crapped on. She has been the one being drunk at bars and staying out till 3am. I stay at home and drink beer but never to the point of vomiting or passing out. Most of the arguments have been with kids away or at neighbors house while they sleep (I have video cameras in case there is any movement or noise and can run over at a drop of a dime). I was always the one to go over if they woke up while she just partied and drank. My priority was always father first, "party person" second. The arguments were about staying out late and or passing out or vomiting all over the floor of our bed or bathroom.
I agree that I need to make changes. I have stopped drinking but the wife has not. I have stopped talking to her best friend at all costs. She just started talking to her again. She is still seeing this guy and leaving me and the kids to be with him. she has spent the night with him three times in the past two weeks. My kids keep asking me where she is. I don't have the heart to tell them when she does leave.
Like I said, I know I was messed up. I was drinking too much. I have stopped. She said she got drunk this past weekend on our "date" because I bored her and made her drink. I admit I was nervous as we did not talk at all the past couple weeks and didn't know what to say. So I talked about her master's and such. Evidently that drove her to drink heavily. Like 4 kentucky mules and one long island. Then had that guy pick her up. I was sober the whole time. She don't remember anything she said to me that night.
Again, I am not making excuses. I know I have to fix me. But I don't think she realizes she has a problem at all. I have probably left other details out such as her sending naked pics to supposedly just her best friend that showed up on my computer screen from when she moved the pictures from her phone. She sent a pic of her tits (shirt still one) to my 60+ year old neighbor saying "boobies" These were why snooping started because of how her behavior changed. Not saying I was innocent at all. I am in IC and am starting to go weekly. I hope we can resolve and be back to where we were before the partying started in Aug 2017. It was not sustainable and I kept pleading to stop going over but I then would give in and drink and hang over there since she wanted to. Before Aug 2017, I hardly drank. I know I have to take care of me and I am taking care of my three kids, even when she just leaves and stays the night at another man's house.
Anthony, that post is still too centered on her. What I am trying to tell you is to OWN your stuff, and leave HER stuff to her. She will either get on board or she won't. But your three kids need the stability of one sane parent. Be that. They need an unmovable rock, be that. Shield them from their mom's insanity as much as possible, but be the one that is there, prioritizing them, making them feel loved and cared for.
We had a poster whose wife was very similar to yours. He hasn't posted in a while. I will try to find he threads, but he is someone you should look to for inspiration and for someone to emulate. He was his kids rock. He ended up D'd despite not being what he wanted, but he saved himself and his kids from his W's insanity.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hi Anthony, I'm glad you found the DB board, b/c the people here can give you lots of support if you post often. I am so sorry to hear about your young family and how your MR has spiraled to this point.
Quote
My wife started to work out during this time and wanted to lose a lot of weight and look good. Started talking about tattoos (doesn't have any) and also plastic surgery (her nose or breasts).
Sometimes these type of actions are seen in women who are going through MLC, but it's not necessarily a determining factor. IMHO, something triggers a MLC......like the death of a close family member, for example. Whatever was not dealt with (or healed) in their younger years, throws them into a crisis when they are triggered by some tragedy. (That's a very rough & short explanation.)
Just by reading your story, it seems the problems were fueled by alcohol. Before you both started hanging out with the neighbor, did she have a history of alcohol or drug use? When she's not drinking, is she a person who is easily influenced by another person?
The other negative influence is her BFF. Does your W have any other close female friends who have been a positive influence in her life? How long were they friends, before BFF started hanging out at the neighbor's? Were you shocked when your W said you could flirt with her BFF? IMO, it's very rare for a W to tell her H he can flirt with another woman. Three things come to mind, for why she might tell you. 1) B/c she and BFF were already talking a threesome. 2) To catch you doing something.....in case she wanted leverage in the near future. 3) To deflect her own bad behavior (sleeping with OM, etc.)
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I started to mention things like a threesome
Have you and your W ever discussed dabbling in the swinger lifestyle? I'm asking b/c whenever thoughts plants seeds, it will likely sprout into a real scenario. In your sitch, you have already experienced unfaithfulness, and opening your M to include another person during sexual intimacy. IDK if there have been other occasions in the past. I am not here to reprimand you. I only want to help you see how these actions have consequences. Your W has admitted to being very confused. Whenever a woman is participating in sexual activities with anyone other than her spouse........it is going to cause mixed/confused feelings. The consequences have just started, and you will have to find the strength to deal with it as it comes. I tend to make my posts too long, so I won't continue on with that subject at the moment.
I encourage you to read Divorce Remedy. Read the links that Cadet has provided in his post. Take time to think about your core values, b/c you need to know where you draw the line. You need to know what you stand for and what you will fight against. Take a personal evaluation of yourself as a man, a H, and as a father. Dig deep until it hurts,,,,,and then dig some more. Are you the kind of man you want your son to become? Are you the kind of man you want your little girls will marry some day? We encourage people to become the very best version of themselves. Don't try to become a house husband, thinking you will score brownie points with your W.......know what I mean? Don't focus on that type of stuff. Focus on what is the right thing to do for your kids, and becoming a man of honor they will respect. ((hugs))
I congratulate you for making the decision to stop drinking. I hate that things happened while under the influence, that might lead to the finality of the M. However, you are setting an example for your W by having the courage to not drink and keep your head clear. I hope she will follow suit. Do you have a supporter IRL, who can talk you off the ledge, so to speak?
I have a question about the pain she experiences when having sex. Has this been diagnosed by a physician?
Okay, I said I was going to shorten this, so I'll go for now. Keep reading and posting.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hey Sandi, the sexual pain was diagnosed and she went through so many therapies. It was so bad that she just desynthesized sex. The drinking helped her get over the anxiety. She still says she can't feel anything down there but did it for me. We both did not have any real history of drinking or drugs prior to the partying across the street. The BFF came along after we started going over to his house and she admits she didn't like her BFF at first. However, they could talk about anything without judgment.
She has no really other close friends which is why she probably gravitated to this guy when I broke that news. I was not the most emotionally supportive the last few years. I have always helped around the house for years and will continue to do that to keep my kids in a normal routine. They are my priority. She says she is willing to do the marriage counseling. Being a stay at home wife/mother and then kids no longer need her (first year of full time school for all) and the issues we had when the girls were babies (PTSD - almost lost the identical twin girls). Then she got this job that she was not planning and it is not a lot of money and she just wasn't happy where she is in life. I don't know if those are triggers but something points to a midlife crisis based on everything she has been doing.
I know I can't make her change her mind. I can only focus on myself and fix me and be there for the kids. I read the dos and don'ts and have struggled with some of them. We are in separate bedrooms right now but we have always been open and have communicated. We just spoke a little yesterday. We will send messages back and forth. I hope she really is interested in marriage counseling and we are both in IC.
I am hoping between the IC and MC, we can repair and be stronger. Just don't know how we can if she is still talking to the other guy and when I "bored" her, she just left me in a middle of a date to be with him. The next day she was apologetic and kissing butt of no divorce.
She told me last night that she is going to start talking to her BFF again. I am ok with that for now as it is more contact with her BFF than that guy but both people really need to be gone. I begged for months prior that my wife quit hanging out with BFF because she was toxic. I still do not know why I ever started flirting with her except I was begging for attention and her BFF was giving me the attention my wife wasn't.
