I have been thinking of the words AS and R2C told me regarding proper validation. The main point being that I listen and not tell her anything/give input. I also recall that I need to put aside my feelings (at least that is what I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong please) and try to see things from her point of view.
It's hard. It's harder than not telling her like it is and how her actions contributed to this. It's hard not calling her a hypocrite and throw it in her face about what she lied about leading up to BD. It's hard to not tell her that if the roles were reversed, I would be out on the street living in a cardboard box. But I also know that telling her those things has not done any good before and it will not do any good in the future. It's vindictive, it serves no purpose, and has made our sitch worse. So my only other choice is to put aside my feelings and work on empathizing with her. I am trying to do so. I am trying to convince myself that she is not lying about working on finding a new place and job and so on even though I have a suspicion that she is going to move in with OM2 as soon as she leaves. I am trying to convince myself that if what she has been saying turns out to be a lie, that I do not go after her and berate and put her down. I am trying to convince myself to be a better man.
I need to start believing and putting those things into action. I need to let go some of my reservations and let time and trust sort all of this out. I need to let go of some of these negative feelings. All it has done was cause more damage between us. She does not deserve that. She does not deserve to have her day ruined because I had an outburst/tantrum. If I truly loved her, I would show her as much love as detached person should. I say that I still truly, deeply love her. Not because she is the mother of my child, but because she has done so much for me. I mean, should I work on letting some of the bad stuff caused by her from the last year and a half go? Or should I work on letting ALL of it go?
I don't think I used this term to describe my feelings, but I feel like I am still holding a grudge. I know I shouldn't. I know I need to stop. I need to accept that some things in life are not fair and that I have to make peace with that.
I need to stop because it has caused so much pain and damage to her and my daughter. I really don't want to cause anymore hurt. They both deserve better. They need better. It's the only way things will get better for all of us.
Has anyone here been a jerk/a-hole to their WS leading up to BD? How long until the guilt of your actions no longer weighed you down? When did you forgive yourself?
It is important to let it all go. You do not have to forget. Just forgive her. You will feel much different afterwards. Forgive yourself. You know better now.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
[some really, really good stuff in here Phoenix. My favorite portion was this:
Originally Posted by Phoenix9
I don't think I used this term to describe my feelings, but I feel like I am still holding a grudge. I know I shouldn't. I know I need to stop. I need to accept that some things in life are not fair and that I have to make peace with that.
I'm experiencing this as well. Every time I have this feeling I repeat to myself, "And this is one of those times in life that Yail might not get what she wants".
Because really, who am I to get everything I want in life? No better or worse than any other human on this planet. We're going through a really big loss, but just because we want something doesn't mean we get it. It's a really tough lesson to practice.
Keep practicing it. I think it might help you with your grudge-like feelings. Your awareness on this is impressive.
Has anyone here been a jerk/a-hole to their WS leading up to BD? How long until the guilt of your actions no longer weighed you down? When did you forgive yourself?
Pretty sure I was worse than you by a long shot buddy. R2C is right. At some point you have to let go of what you did wrong and what she did wrong.
It's part of moving on, pain wise. Right now, you're still "carrying-on" with your W marriage wise but you can let go of that hurt if you try.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
The main point being that I listen and not tell her anything/give input. I also recall that I need to put aside my feelings (at least that is what I recall. Correct me if I'm wrong please) and try to see things from her point of view.
Yes that is correct. I just posted this in another thread, but a lot of LBS's think that since they didn't share feelings before BD that they should start doing it after BD, that it's a worthy 180. But a two way sharing of feelings is what should happen in a healthy relationship, and you're not in one right now. So your job is to listen and validate. You don't reciprocate by sharing your feelings with her, because when you do that she thinks "oh he's just trying to make this all about himself as usual."
As far as trying to see things from her point of view, that's not necessarily what validating means. In Retrouvaille we learned you shouldn't say things like "I know exactly how you feel." Because you really don't and she actually might resent you for saying that. All you're doing is acknowledging that her feelings are hers and they are legitimate whether you understand them or not. This is why so many LBS's struggle with validating, because they don't AGREE with what their WAS is feeling. But validation isn't putting a stamp of approval on what she's feeling, it's merely accepting that her feelings are real to her.
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I mean, should I work on letting some of the bad stuff caused by her from the last year and a half go? Or should I work on letting ALL of it go?
Forgiveness is for you, you can forgive someone without ever telling them. It's basically letting go of your need for retribution or revenge or "making things right" and just accepting that it happened, it may not be fair but you're moving past it. Now forgetting is another matter completely. You can forgive someone for their behavior while also being mindful that you will not let it happen again. I forgave my XW for all she put me through, but would I remarry her? No because I haven't forgotten the kind of person that she is now.
I keep telling myself that I have forgiven my WW, but I still harbor some angry feelings. However, my anger seems to be going down bit by bit daily. The reality of the formal split is beginning to hit her. She is expressing concern and worry of her lifestyle, how she is going to pay bills, apartment, etc. after she moves out. I tell myself that me expressing my anger is not going to help matters and will just make her pain worse. I can't nor do I want to do that anymore. She may have messed up and continue to do so (in my eyes), but she is a good, caring person.
I am working on forgiving myself. I think the part that I am struggling with is the fact that I had such a great thing with her only to neglect and ultimately lost it. The good memories I hcreated with her are the things that I reflect on constantly and sorely miss. Now I'm not sure my feelings are a byproduct of a lack of intimacy or intimate physical contact. Or it also could be that I am still not experiencing the things I should expect when I am dating right now and that I am getting impatient of getting to that point. Or if it's just between GAL sessions I have moments of loneliness and my mind begins to drift back to our sitch.
Whatever it is, I do know that I am still a bit wistful of our relationship that was. That's the key word: [b]was[\b].
Yail, thank you. I think once we start to accept that not everything in life is fair, the sooner we can work on improving ourselves. We were taught to work on the things we do have control of: ourselves. Everything outside of us is not in our control and is an exercise in futility.
Practice definitely makes perfect.
Journaling:
Work is coming to an end. I pick up D5 from her Granddad (WW's dad). He is just realizing the extent of the sitch and seeing what WW and I have been going through. He asks about me and how I'm feeling (to WW). She tells him (at least I think she does) that I am very happy.
I go clubbing tomorrow night. I have my clothes laid out for the event. I am also going to make a major change to my appearance. I am going to shave my head. I am already bald. The hair in the back does not look good on me. It's time to let that go as well.
Speed dating event Monday. I'm excited for that. Going forward I am going to slow it down a little bit and try to work on my social skills (RotG Day 7) in public environments (coffee shops, bookstores, shopping malls, etc.). It's all a part of my growth.
I booked a trip to Vancouver, BC to take with D5 the first weekend in May. WW will be out of town attending a class and I took that Friday off to watch D5. I decided to make it special and take D5 on a road trip that she has been dying to take since our trip to Leavenworth last Thanksgiving.
I'm feeling good overall. Yes, I do have moments in which my mind starts to wander towards "I'm sad and I need pity" territory but I know that will not do me any good and it certainly is not attractive behavior. I force myself to think positively. I think of the good things I have done in the last few months and it reminds me that all of these changes I have gone through are a result of my positive mental mindset.
The social growth continues. I went clubbing/dancing for the first time time last Friday. I went with my uncle (in law), his GF, and her three other friends. We went to a nightclub where most of the music they play are hits from the late 80s/90s. Upon arrival, I go right to the bar and order myself a non-alcoholic drink. I needed something to boost my energy (Red Bull), but I also wanted to work on my body language skills. One such skill is having the drink hang at your side and leave your torso exposed. Apparently vulnerability is an attractive trait. Our group made their way to the dance floor and started dancing. Five of them were in a circle and I was the odd man out. Not knowing what to do, I sidled to one of my uncle's friends and started dancing...not with her, but alongside the group. It felt a little awkward at first, but as the evening progressed I was able to be a part of the group dancing. Between dancing, I went outside and chatted with some women who were taking part in a bachelorette party. One of the ladies asked me if I was named "Eric". One of the challenges for the bride to be was to find someone named "Eric". I said I was not, but I told them I can pretend to be. They laughed and told me that if I am to be called "Eric" I was supposed to buy the bride to be a drink. I bought her a drink, toasted to her marriage and made my way back to the dance floor where i danced alongside my group for another hour before heading home. Lot of fun.
Quiet rest of my weekend. I have three nights and two full days with D5 and that is unfortunately not going to change anytime soon. I miss her. I miss my family. But I know I can't have that right now. Not with the way things are.
I went to another speed dating event last night. I hit it off with one of the women before the start of the event and chatted with her quite a bit. Lots of flirting, her touching my arm, etc. Felt good. Did the event and ended up with the woman I started off with. More talking, more flirting and light touching. I asked for her number and texted her my contact details along with me asking her to get together at a later time for dinner and/or drinks. I get my results from my speed dating thing and was informed that I matched with the woman who I was talking to. So...yay. I just emailed her letting her know of my availability for this week and weekend and left it at that. No response from her yet. And that's ok. I'm getting good practice.
Planning a quieter evening tonight. I'm going to lift and maybe putter about town for a bit before heading home early and going to bed. Wednesday and Thursday look to be the same. I'm trying to find social events to go to, but they are mostly in the city and I don't want to continue to go back and forth attending to them. Maybe I'll find something as interesting here?
I seem to be getting along better with my WW. I keep telling myself that it does not mean anything and as far as we're concerned, we're still moving forward with the legal separation. Though I cannot help but think in the back of my mind that there still may yet be hope of us getting back together. I keep telling myself to snap out of it and that it is just a fantasy, but it's a though that still lingers. I tell myself that there is no way I would ever take her back the way she is now. She needs to change for me to even consider it.
And I am also feeling that even though I claimed I was fully detached from WW, I don't think I am. I don't feel like I am. Maybe it's going take more time?
You sound like you are moving in the right direction Phoenix. Much better than a few months ago. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. You will eventually get to where you need to be. Just keep putting yourself out there. (((HUGS)))
