Persistent Endurance (Part 3)

[curtis7]

Link to Part 1:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2841771#Post2841771
Link to Part 2:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2842502#Post2842502

Summary to date:
W was unhappy in 2018 and probably a few years earlier about her lack of career advancement, responsibilities of being a mother and wife, and lack of connection in our MR. She became involved in an EA with a co-worker in August. She was going to an IC without my knowledge and came to the determination that I was the cause of her unhappiness. BD and IHS in November. I made all of the classic mistakes of begging, pleading, doing all the chores, etc. In November, she was seduced by a 25 year old pickup artist (OM1) at a downtown bar one night and had a PA a couple weeks later which evolved into a limerant relationship. W went deeply underground with her smartphone when I found out and confronted. She has experienced the highest of highs when OM contacts her and the lowest of lows when ignored. She has transferred the limerance to OM2/3 and then OM1 comes back into the fray. W has distanced herself from anyone of strong moral character and primarily interacts with a recently divorced woman that became her BFF last year. She has been turned on to a GGW lifestyle with sexting, going out more often, and trolling for and probably hooking up with guys on dating apps. She blatantly would text OM and divorced BFF for hours in front of me the last 2 months living together prior to physical separation. W bought her own house and moved out in early April. We have arranged 50/50 custody of our kids, S8 and D4, rotating every few days.

I would characterize myself of experiencing PTSD symptoms after BD/PA discovery for about 4 months. Way too much pursuit, pressure, and R talk. I became obsessed with snooping and trying to identify and over-analyze everything that went wrong in our MR that led us to this state. In doing so, I pushed her farther and farther away. I've heard just about every WW catch phrase from her along with way. She has re-written our MR history and focuses on all the negatives. I've been doing a much better job of GAL and detaching since late February. Contact right now is like a business relationship, mostly limited to co-parenting and logistics.

I continue to read self-help books and listen to podcasts daily. My MR is not making any progress, but I am personally thanks to the help I've received here. Long way to go and I'm still standing...

[curtis7]

C,
Why would you want to invite your W who is sleeping with other men to your birthday party?
If you don’t stop the cake eating you are going to be in for a vey long painful period of limbo.

No. It's OK to invite her to join you for the kids' bdays but not your own.

LH & AS, thanks for the 2x4. I don't need a WW around to spoil my 40th bday party. Although, I'm sure she would be quite fond of eating the cake.

[IHCLACS]

Curtis it hurts. It hurts to breath, it hurts to sleep, it hurts to eat, it hurts to think compulsively, it hurts to keep constantly looking for assessment, solutions, reasons, faults, blame, choices, decisions, actions, behaviors. You and I got to let it go bud. Focus on the present. Try not to think of anything but your surroundings, one minute, one hour, one day at a time. Try to be present, and avoid past and future thoughts, try to GAL, try to even temporary make yourself happy even uf if means partaking in distractions, but healthy pleasurable activities, and shift the focus on yourself and off of her.

You have not cheated. You are of moral value, self worth and charactor. That must mean something. Be strong.

[curtis7]

Been a little while since I posted, no major developments as I’m almost 3 weeks into physical S with WW. I thought I’d give a quick update on some interaction with her today. I was out of town for the weekend GAL. Returned home early this morning and picked up the kids from her house to go to an Easter service and celebration. It was my first time at her place and I stood at the door. She said I could come in. I took one step in and waited in the foyer for the kids to gather their stuff. I really had no interest going farther into a place my W likely uses to have sex with OM.

She texted in the afternoon asking if she could come over and ride her horse. I replied yes. Then, apparently just before she left she called from outside while I was cleaning inside and away from my phone. The call went to VM and she left without coming inside the house. The VM was about S8’s backpack and her wanting to borrow equipment to change the oil on her car (I’ve always done that for her BTW). She snipped that I wasn’t answering her calls or texts in the message in an annoyed tone. I didn’t appreciate that. I called her back layer and asked why she didn’t come in. She said she could read people and could tell that I was upset this morning when picking up the kids. She said I didn’t even look her in the eye. I told her I wasn’t comfortable going inside because it was my first time there and I had never been invited there. She said your kids are living there and you could come in to check it out. She said she felt weird about coming into our house too after separation and didn’t think I wanted her inside. I told her we should talk through those things when she feels that way. She said she wasn’t trying to be passive aggressive by leaving without coming in. She planned to come over again early evening for the oil change stuff and car jack.

When she came over, she came inside and was receiving texts from OM2 when I was standing there talking to her. She stopped what she was doing to reply to him. I had enough of that and felt it was time to establish a boundary. We then had the following conversation over the next few minutes where I remained calm and confident:
H: “I would appreciate it if you not text him while you are in this house.” (She became upset and started to walk away.)
W: “I’m not allowed to text in this house?”
H: “That’s not what I said, I don’t appreciate you texting other men in front of me.”
W: “You’re paranoid, there is no other guy.”
H: “Really? You were texting other men for the last month that you were living here.”
W: “It wasn’t another guy, it was BFF.” (I saw OMs initials on her screen when she was standing next to me)
H: “What about the guy texting you pictures of his truck last week when I was saying goodbye to the kids in your car?”
W: “He’s just a friend.”
H: “Okay, yes, a friend.”
W: “Your obviously getting advice from somewhere because all of your responses since I moved are careful, diplomatic, and short. The messages are business like.”
H: “I’m trying not to be overly critical and judgmental as that was one of my shortcomings in the past.”
W: “It’s okay to have an opinion on things.”
H: “That makes sense.” (She was annoyed by this response as it was diplomatic too.)
H: “Tell me more about how you feel we should interact.”
W: “We’re parents and need to communicate about the kids.
H: “Yes, we are and that’s about all we communicate about since you moved out.”
H: “If you ever want to talk about anything I’m here to listen.”
W: “I don’t talk with anyone. You and I have never been chatty. I don’t feel the need to share my day with people.”
W: “I have a lot going on right now.”
H: “I understand, perhaps we can talk about house visits to address the awkwardness when you settle in more.”
W: “Okay.”
H: “Later.”
W: “Bye.”

I know there is always room for improvement and this probably crossed too deep into R talk. Hopefully it was worth it and she respects my boundary.

[LH19]

C,

Bad exchange dude. Just put a sign in front of your house that flashes " I'm plan B." If you ever want to talk about anything I'm here to listen? What if she wants to talk about the other men? You are not her therapist or her emotional tampon.

Ok weak boundary set. What are the consequences if/ when she breaks it?

You are new to this so you are going to make mistakes, just try to minimize them.

[curtis7]

Ok weak boundary set. What are the consequences if/ when she breaks it?

The consequence is that I ask her to leave my house.

Her response to my validation over the past few weeks was interesting. Do WW’s typically shutdown most conversation when their statements are met with validation? It’s literally down to kid talks only and nothing else of substance. Is this to be expected for a while until she feels a void and wants to open up more or will this disconnection continue to grow?

I ask because I wasn’t a great conversationalist prior to BD. Improving that was one of my 180s, but it is gone completely since she moved out.

I’ve reached 100 posts!! The saying is right that things have to get worse before they get better. I went back and read all of the posts on my threads since joining and I see very few positive signs in my R, mostly deterioration. I need to continue applying the principles properly and working on myself. The latter I feel I’ve done a good job on. Not losing hope and praying my next 100 posts contain more positive results.

[LH19]

C,

I hope you are ready to enforce it.

You can’t develop a connection with her while she is sleeping with other men. She is going to have to hit rock bottom for you to reconnect.

[SteveLW]

Ok weak boundary set. What are the consequences if/ when she breaks it?

The consequence is that I ask her to leave my house.

Her response to my validation over the past few weeks was interesting. Do WW’s typically shutdown most conversation when their statements are met with validation? It’s literally down to kid talks only and nothing else of substance. Is this to be expected for a while until she feels a void and wants to open up more or will this disconnection continue to grow?

I ask because I wasn’t a great conversationalist prior to BD. Improving that was one of my 180s, but it is gone completely since she moved out.

I’ve reached 100 posts!! The saying is right that things have to get worse before they get better. I went back and read all of the posts on my threads since joining and I see very few positive signs in my R, mostly deterioration. I need to continue applying the principles properly and working on myself. The latter I feel I’ve done a good job on. Not losing hope and praying my next 100 posts contain more positive results.

Validation will be met with a variety of responses. However, when a spouse is looking for a way out, they will blame EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. Including validation. Look, with validating it is a darned if you do and darned if you don't. If you don't validate then you don't understand her feelings. If you do you've been coached and are being clinical. So here is where it turns on its head.........

Validate her FOR YOU. Not for her. Detachment is very simple. Detachment is not reacting emotionally to what she says or does.

Her response to my validation over the past few weeks was interesting. Do WW’s typically shutdown most conversation when their statements are met with validation? It’s literally down to kid talks only and nothing else of substance. Is this to be expected for a while until she feels a void and wants to open up more or will this disconnection continue to grow?

I ask because I wasn’t a great conversationalist prior to BD. Improving that was one of my 180s, but it is gone completely since she moved out.

This is NOT detachment. This is the opposite of detachment.

So validate her FOR YOU. Not for her. Whether she likes it. Whether she doesn't. The validation is so you a) do not get in a tit-for-tat with her and b) it prevents you from saying things you shouldn't say.

Talking ONLY about the kids is perfect for your sitch right now. In fact, I'd suggest it. Certainly worrying about who she is texting is not detachment, I don't care where she is. Let her go to get her back.

You got this man.

[AnotherStander]

When she came over, she came inside and was receiving texts from OM2 when I was standing there talking to her. She stopped what she was doing to reply to him. I had enough of that and felt it was time to establish a boundary. We then had the following conversation over the next few minutes where I remained calm and confident:

I agree with LH that it's a weak, undefined, hard to enforce boundary. If you're going to have a boundary about texting then just make it texting in general, not specifically OM because then you've got to snoop over her shoulder to see WHO she's texting (and that is not DB'ing). So if you're having a convo with her and she starts texting, just tell her "I would appreciate it if you would wait until we're finished to text."

W: “You’re paranoid, there is no other guy.”
H: “Really? You were texting other men for the last month that you were living here.”
W: “It wasn’t another guy, it was BFF.” (I saw OMs initials on her screen when she was standing next to me)
H: “What about the guy texting you pictures of his truck last week when I was saying goodbye to the kids in your car?”
W: “He’s just a friend.”
H: “Okay, yes, a friend.”

If you know this for a fact then just reply "We both know that's not true" and then walk away. Don't get drawn into "he said/ she said" conversations with her. But if you know then why talk about it. There's no point. Don't bring it up.

H: “Tell me more about how you feel we should interact.”
W: “We’re parents and need to communicate about the kids.
H:“Yes, we are and that’s about all we communicate about since you moved out.”

She is 100% right, your convos should ONLY be about the kids.

H: “If you ever want to talk about anything I’m here to listen."

Don't invite her to talk. If she talks then listen and validate. If she doesn't then just discuss the kids and that's it. When you say things like this it's just pressure, and right now she wants zero pressure. I'm not saying be cold/ rude/ indifferent. LOVINGLY detach. The idea is to keep the road home paved and smooth, but you don't throw a winch on her bumper and try to drag her down the road.

[curtis7]

Validation will be met with a variety of responses. However, when a spouse is looking for a way out, they will blame EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. Including validation. Look, with validating it is a darned if you do and darned if you don't. If you don't validate then you don't understand her feelings. If you do you've been coached and are being clinical. So here is where it turns on its head.........

Detachment is very simple. Detachment is not reacting emotionally to what she says or does.

So validate her FOR YOU. Not for her. Whether she likes it. Whether she doesn't. The validation is so you a) do not get in a tit-for-tat with her and b) it prevents you from saying things you shouldn't say.

Steve,

Understood, in my case and where she’s at, validation prevents the escalation of conversations by keeping my emotions out of it. It keeps me from being drawn into talks that will likely turn south and be steps in the wrong direction from detachment.

Question for you, I’ve been reading many sitches recently and recall reading a post from you on a hypothetical for a LBH ready to give up along the lines of what if a few months from now W ended the A, then a few months later she started to work on the MR, and within a year the two of you were back together. I can’t find it now, does this ring a bell and do you have a link to the post?