So about 18 months ago my wife declared that she no longer wanted to married "like this". She was referring to years of control, manipulation and emotional abuse by me. She said that any physical interactions between us (intimacy) were over.
I begged her to get into couples counseling with me, but she said she needed to be on her own, to heal and to understand the pain she was going through and would not prioritize the marriage.
Months went by, I continued to ask...and was denied. I continued to work, doing the things I hadn't done for her, help with the house, the kids, the laundry, the dishes, the lunches...I wanted her to know I had changed. The biggest thing of course were my responses to her.
In July of last year she finally said she wanted to meet with her counselor where she dropped the bomb of having an affair (her 2nd one in 4 years). She said she wanted to give our marriage a shot. But she didn't let on that she was still talking with this OM and had also started an EA with another guy. Both men were from her high school past.
We began seeing a couples counselor who was really experienced with narcissism and control. I knew she'd feel validated and I would have to own my junk.
She finally ended speaking with her affair partners in October 2018 but asked for a separation. We can't afford a separation. She works part time, I work full time. We have kids 5, 7 and 8.
I have tried EVERYTHING, well except this method of detachment, GAL and trying to do things without drawing attention to myself, my changes and our future. It has only been 1 week.
She still presses me for a separation BUT really we don't have the means to do it. She wants to stay with a mutual friend a few days a week, but I refuse to leave our house, mostly because I don't want to break our kids' hearts more than once. If she doesn't love me, THEN DIVORCE ME. We have been doing this for 18 months already.
I am triggered by her phone every time it goes off. She is triggered by everything I do, even though she will tell me over and over I have changed. But she says that "she can't heal in this environment" so she needs to get out. But I notice that she's not trying very hard to get a full time job. She doesn't mind that I still provide the roof over our families' head and most of what we enjoy. I feel taken for granted BIG TIME.
But I must be clear...I want the dream. I want the marriage that lasts a lifetime. I don't want my kids to grow up in a broken home, visiting mom and dad in their apartments.
Any feedback you have would be appreciated. I have detached now for a week (I know, not long) and it has gotten worse. I have stopped initiating any I love you's or affection. I have pulled away and started digging in to my home projects and fitness. All she can say is, "Is there something wrong?"
Feeling hopeless and yet I understand the purpose of this is also to prepare myself for a happy life with ME. I am enough. I can get through this.
Appreciate you all.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
si, what you're going through is very typical. many of us have been there. Likely you're dealing with a wayward wife. she is wanting to di what she wants but still cake eat. IE have other men but still have all the advantages and security of being married to you. Having other men but still being shielded from scrutiny from her children.
When a WW says they want their own place, it isn't to heal. It isn't to work on the marriage. It isn't even to find themselves. The only reason a WW wants their own place is to sleep with other people. I'm telling you that so you can understand her mindset right now.
I'm sure after the As you began 'paying attention" after years of not. You took her for granted which is why you feel she is now taking you for granted. Shoe is on the other foot. But also, we LBH's off WWs pay attention not always just to change but also to control. Are you snooping on her? Trying to look at her phone? Keeping tabs on where she goes? Ask yourself, is that really the way you want to live?
So yes you need to detach. You need to get a life. You need to continue to work on yourself (180s). But you also need to let her go to get her back. You need to stop all pressure and pursuit. You need to focus on yourself and your kids.
Remember, it takes two to make a marriage, only one to make a divorce. They choice to stay married isn't yours to make. So stop trying to control that.
You're right 1 week is a drop in the ocean in relation to your sitch. Yes it's a good sign she is asking what's wrong, my WW asked the same thing when I started detaching well. Most WWs will start to feel the loss of control. That's a good thing. So keep it up but make sure it isn't mean or angry. Just detached. Pleased. Present. Upbeat. But not reactionary to anything she says or does, both positive or negative.
Good luck, are you religious at all? If so rededicate yourself back to religion. If not, it might be a good place to start with GAL.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks a bunch for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I'm the kind of person that can not eat sweets for a year, so surely I can stick to some healthy boundaries, and apply some self love. This has been going on for so long now (18 months) that I'm not missing the contact as much as I used to.
I still long for the togetherness and wholeness of our family.
I suspect my wife is caught between a rock and a hard place while enjoying her cake though. She would have to tell the kids what is happening. She can't financially stand on her own. And if she were to have another affair, that would have nothing to do with my abuse to her. That pattern isn't happening anymore, our CC would confirm that.
For now, it's a GAL time. Back in great shape. Pressing into Jesus. Take on new projects at work. Love on my kids.
We have a counseling appt tomorrow - she'll claim I'm being controlling by not moving out to do "nesting" at the house. We actually still sleep in the same bed. I'm cordial, we watch some of the same shows. And when I want to go to sleep, I do. No questions about affairs (past or suspected). She is hanging out with GF who are recently divorced, likes to go drinking but comes back to the safety of our house.
She even puts up new decorations and re-arranges the house (which is confusing AF for someone that wants to separate).
Thanks again for the feedback!!
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
si, yep, my W was very similar to that as well. If the nesting issue comes up simply say "I will not stand in your way if you want to leave, but I won't support a "nesting" situation." My W had a plan to get a job, get her own place, and get a D. She never followed through. If you want to have the togetherness and wholeness you have to let her waywardness run its course. It could do so soon, or it could take another 18 months or more.
Just keep DBing.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks so much for confirming that Steve. My counselor agrees to...I shouldn't have to move out. The downside is that she'll see me as controlling, but I'm not going to let her call all the shots NOR to I want to leave my house or kids. This is her decision not to work.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
So about 18 months ago my wife declared that she no longer wanted to married "like this". She was referring to years of control, manipulation and emotional abuse by me. She said that any physical interactions between us (intimacy) were over.
So for years you were controlling, manipulative and abusing her emotionally. And you acknowledge you were doing this. It sounds like you've stopped which is great, but here's the thing- what assurance does she have that it won't happen again, that you won't fall right back into old habits if she decides to give the M another chance? This is her dilemma. She's been through a lot and even though you've changed, she doesn't BELIEVE your changes yet. She needs TIME for that, and a lot of it. Try and have some sympathy for what she is going through.
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I begged her to get into couples counseling with me, but she said she needed to be on her own, to heal and to understand the pain she was going through and would not prioritize the marriage.
She needs to be in IC, not MC. Is she?
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I continued to work, doing the things I hadn't done for her, help with the house, the kids, the laundry, the dishes, the lunches...I wanted her to know I had changed.
This is all beta behavior and not the "change" she is looking for. It's not unusual for LBS's to do this thinking it will help, but really you're talking about being a great maid, which is cool in a healthy relationship, but obviously it's not something that's going to attract her back.
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I have tried EVERYTHING
You haven't tried the one thing that works better than anything else- TIME.
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She still presses me for a separation BUT really we don't have the means to do it.
What do you mean "presses" you? Your attitude should be that if she wants to leave then she's welcome to leave. But don't help her (or block her), it's her responsibility.
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She wants to stay with a mutual friend a few days a week, but I refuse to leave our house, mostly because I don't want to break our kids' hearts more than once.
Are you blocking her somehow? If she wants to go stay with someone then let her. But don't leave yourself.
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If she doesn't love me, THEN DIVORCE ME.
This is not a black-and-white issue. She's confused and in turmoil and you need to give her time and space to sort it out. Don't pressure her to stay, don't pressure her to leave, don't pressure her to D, don't pressure her to reconcile. REMOVE ALL PRESSURE.
Thanks so much AnotherStander. Your advice is well received. She believes to some degree in the changes but has overwhelming fear of my past patterns, facial expressions, old reactions, etc. Which I completely understand as I was emotionally and mentally abused growing up. I do NOT for any reason think she should simply get over it OR that forgiveness means one forgets.
The sticking point currently is that she feels blocked by me not cooperating to join her in moving out for 50/50 time at home. We meet with the counselor again tomorrow. She has been in IC for 18 months (along with her affairs) and we just started CC about 5 months ago.
I am planning to stand my ground with not moving out, not that it's not cooperating.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
The sticking point currently is that she feels blocked by me not cooperating to join her in moving out for 50/50 time at home.
That's called a "nesting arrangement" and most of us here are not big fans of it. A couple of people here have tried it due to financial difficulties though. My attitude about that is if you don't want to do it then stick to your guns. Be polite but firm, tell her it's a non-negotiable point and you are not leaving the house. If she wants to leave then that's on her to figure out how to make it work.
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She has been in IC for 18 months (along with her affairs) and we just started CC about 5 months ago.
Glad she is in IC. If CC doesn't go well then consider terminating it. Generally a WAS just goes to CC so they can cross it off their list of "Things I Tried To Save The M But That Just Proved It Was Already Over". In other words they are just looking for excuses to end the M, so if the counselor says something like "well maybe you should separate" then the WAS will jump all over it and say "see, the counselor recommended it so it must be right."
Yes. Totally glad to hear that nesting isn't the preferred arrangement here nor is leaving the MBR. I'm not the one that wants the space or needs the space, so I'll stay here in my space. I really appreciate the encouragement to communicate that in a healthy way.
Our couples counselor actually kept hearing her say she needed separation but do nothing about it. aka. EATING LOTS OF CAKE. He didn't tell me this but I could see him calling her bluff and asking her to draw up a plan to separate; financially, logistically, etc. She doesn't have one. I'm not going to shoulder the blame for her plan not being complete.
Her IC is fully supporting her (which an IC should) but she also leads an emotionally abusive women's group. My wife sometimes comes home to talk about the other husbands who won't even acknowledge they were abusive, who are still manipulating their wives for sex and are downright nasty.
The ingredients I haven't added to my situation are patience and time. I'm just now (thanks to this group) understanding the strength and need to GAL, and being confident to validate my W, but not be a pushover.
H46 W38 M12 T15 D8,S7,S5
11/12/17 "I don't want to be married like this" A began 7/12/18 Confessed A 10/1/19 EA still happening with 2 4/23/19 "I want a D, but I want to stay until I find a job"
