http://divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2748678&page=12I don't know what the URL is cadet I deleted the Www. So I hope this works.
Sandi, 25 and Own. Thank you for your words! I'm on my phone so I probably won't be able to address everything or close to it
I know THIS M is over but is he a lost cause? Is my hoping he will snap out of this a lost cause?
Sandi, I know I have to DTR. I really do not communicate with him with the exception of what I put here. I know me worrying about communication shows I haven't gotten close to DTR. When he's in the house I do pretty much what you say. I go about my plans and what I want to do with him here. But it is uncomfortable for me because I feel like he's judging me or using anything he can to fuel his feelings of negativity about me.
I know you all are so annoyed with me and over giving me advice. I appreciate all of your patience. I'm not ready to give up that this is going to be the life for me forever. That I will forever share my boys and my new baby 50/50 for all holidays etc. I am fighting against accepting that right now. This is not the life I want for us. That's where all my frustrations, fear, and anxiety comes from. I have to let it go. Trust me. I know all of this and I am actively working on trying to do so. Having to and wanting to are two completely different things that I'm trying to combine.
I stayed gone all weekend after I took the boys. We stayed at my moms. The boys went on the boat - I didn't invite H and he didn't ask to come. After my dads talk he didn't ask to do anything all weekend. Last night I got a text from asking if we ate. I told him the boys are on the boat and I wasn't with them. He asked if I was on my way home. I just said Yes. He asked if I wanted dinner. I told him, I'm good thanks. He said he would go somewhere if I wanted. I didn't reply. He then asked what I could have that was dairy free. He then named a restaurant there and asked if I wanted what I normally got. I said okay if you're going. I got home ate dinner on the couch watching TV where he was then retired to my room. My interaction wasn't someone that dropped the rope - I know.
Sandi I am in agreeement to do this if it's the only thing that will help me to stop crying and feeling the way I do when I'm alone... I will if it's the only thing you think can give me the possibility of this not being my life forever. If this can help him realize what he's doing or what he's losing.
I'm going to do what you're telling me. I'm struggling with accepting this as my life but I will act that way until it becomes second nature.
My dad told me H will come crawling back a day late and a dollar short. He said as he told him he will look at the boys and I and have to live with the regret of what he's done twice now for the rest of his life. That he will still be miserable and unhappy without me and it will take him getting away from me to see that I wasn't the one holding him back or causing his unhappiness. The C told H the same thing the last time we went. He said his demons will continue to follow him for the rest of his life with or without me. He said it's better to be with the Devil you know (me) then the one you don't (new R). He said you know T weakness and faults and you still chose her twice. That has to mean something.
So basically this is just more of the same. Same [censored] different day.
T3:
At least you realize it is the same. It is. Completely. Rinse and repeat.
You can move swiftly for a legal separation to protect your financial interests (assuming your state has that option). If not move for a separation contract. It does not have to be a divorce and you do not have to give up hope forever. You do need to follow Sandi's advice though and give up hope for now. You need to do that for you and your boys.
I took some heat for telling you that it didn't matter if there was an OW. I told you that because I sensed you still wouldn't let go and you were still creating all these boundaries you had no intention of following (all of the I'm done if this or that talk). You know there is an OW and you still don't want to let go. That is ok. Don't be shamed into doing something you don't want because of what anyone else says. Just please, stop drawing hard lines in the sand. Stop projecting the way you feel today across the rest of your life. Just take it day by day. Decide how you can behave today. I love the advice you've been giving on acting vs. reacting. Also, keep working on letting go of your control issues. I hope the snooping has come to an end. Given that you still want him in your lives despite the OW, anything you learn from this point on will just make that harder.
If you follow sandi's advice, your H is either going to snap out of his ridiculousness - or he won't. But you can bet that - if you follow her advice - you will be a helluva lot happier a helluva lot quicker.
T, I know you don't want it, but I think you'd be SO much better off if H just got out of your hair for a few weeks at a time. That's the only thing that helped me when H was gone. But it's like he could sense when I was about to really let go, and here he came, rolling up in his truck to "move more things." It was always something. Finally, I realized how seeing him always set me back. And that's one main reason I was prepared to move.
I really hope that you will lawyer up and get financial support, at the very least, in motion - stat. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells just because you're afraid he's going to stop financially supporting his boys. And please TRY not to worry so much about splitting the kids for holidays etc. I know that fear very well, and I know what I'm saying is easier said than done. But, honestly, our fear of those things is usually so much worse than what ends up being reality. Right now, there are a lot of emotions involved. That won't always be the case.
What they said^^^.
Also, when you envision your life negatively, seeing only a sea of empty nights & holidays splitting the kids ahead of you, STOP.
That's^^^ not realistic, it's catastrophic thinking and it's paralyzing you.
None of us would suggest DTR or moving forward if we thought you'd be better off staying in this situation.
And none of us said there's no hope for this man.
I obviously don't know the numbers,
but I do believe the chances for you to eventually reconcile are higher by you moving on
(*you can leave the 'door' unlocked but you do need to close it for now).
I believe that without a reconciliation, you'll have moved forward faster and in a financial safer way than if you keep doing the same old.
So either way you need to DTR...and please
please make sure you are protecting yourself & your boys and not being held hostage by financial fears.
We are all rooting for you
I hope you all know I'm going to do it. I've been working really hard to do so. I am a work in progress but I am getting better at letting go.
Is DTR me not giving a F about if I'm nice or not to him? Does DTR mean I'm not worried about being the person only a fool would leave?
He still continues to come to the house to stay over. I'm going to go by Sandis advice of just acting as if he's not there. Not that he's a guest or a neighbor.
Also on the OW topic. I'm not convinced it's physical. That's my wavering on the boundary. They text but haven't text since July 4 until today. He hasn't been talking to her other than that. There may be another OW because I can't see iPhone messages like the other girl at work I was worried about but there are a few phone calls between them recently for short amounts of time. I do believe he is interested in someone else.... I just don't know that it's physical. Yes he was with oW and her mom riding their motorcycles last week. I think he's intrigued by her but I don't know it's physical because he's at my house every night. I could. E very wrong and only time will tell of the truth not that it makes a huge difference now. My dad said there is someone else no doubt in his mind. He said there are chemical changes in the brain (as people have done research on) and that no man leaves his family with a newborn unless he thinks he has a better option.
I hope you all know I'm going to do it. I've been working really hard to do so. I am a work in progress but I am getting better at letting go.
^^this is not for the feint of heart.
Is DTR me not giving a F about if I'm nice or not to him? Does DTR mean I'm not worried about being the person only a fool would leave?
To ME...it's being civil, pleasant if possible but not with effort - and for sure not giving a f--- about what he's doing or if he is there.
An interesting GAL woman who knows she has value, IS a woman only a fool would leave.
There's a difference between knowing your worth/self respect b/c you know you deserve better,
and making an effort to validate/or speak in his love languages, to reconcile etc.
He still continues to come to the house to stay over. I'm going to go by Sandis advice of just acting as if he's not there. Not that he's a guest or a neighbor.
Also on the OW topic. I'm not convinced it's physical. That's my wavering on the boundary.
how much difference does this^^ make to you? He said he wants out & he acts like it.
They text but haven't text since July 4 until today. He hasn't been talking to her other than that. There may be another OW because I can't see iPhone messages like the other girl at work I was worried about but there are a few phone calls between them recently for short amounts of time. I do believe he is interested in someone else.... I just don't know that it's physical. Yes he was with oW and her mom riding their motorcycles last week. I think he's intrigued by her but I don't know it's physical because he's at my house every night. I could. E very wrong and only time will tell of the truth not that it makes a huge difference now. My dad said there is someone else no doubt in his mind. He said there are chemical changes in the brain (as people have done research on) and that no man leaves his family with a newborn unless he thinks he has a better option.
to me, this ^^^ is going to drive you nuts. $ucks out your energy...not sure it's productive at all.
So Decide how important the details are,
given the givens.
Sorry T3
T3, I think you need to accept that an affair is an affair. I have read and experienced first hand through my H that an EA is every bit, and perhaps more damaging, than a PA. With an EA it is all about fantasy and the feeling lingers until it is consummated or the fantasy is replaced. With a PA, it begins as fantasy and gets real much quicker. You are going to keep looking for the signs of which it is. You are going to keep your focus on him instead of you and the boys. Let it go. If a PA bothers you more than an EA, than accept it was a PA so you can get over it and won't endure a new round of heartache when you find out it has progressed to the physical.
You don't say anything about taking care of the legal end of your situation to protect you and the boys. Please take care of that while he is in a mood to be cooperative. Once that is sewed up, you can keep working on detaching and moving forward. First things first.
What everyone else said.
And to put it more bluntly:
Without taking ANY OTHER FACTOR whatsoever into account. Without dissecting all the ifs, what ifs, and maybes,
Is what you KNOW FIRSTHAND of how he is treating you ACCEPTABLE to you?
If it is not, then nothing else matters, Nothing about how he feels or why he feels or anything he says matters. If you don't like how you are being treated, for yourself, then what else is there to talk about?
Put it another way. If you knew for certain that he was living like a monk in a back room somewhere, but everything else was the same -- how he talks to you, how little he respects you, how unhelpful he is, his willingness to blame you for his feelings without considering his responsibility for yours, etc. -- would that be tolerable to you?
Can you respect someone who you believe will leave you and your very young children financially destitute for petty reasons that you can't even articulate? Do you want to trust your family to someone who could be that selfish and cruel?
If the answer is no, then dissecting other women is just a procrastination tactic for doing what you know you need to do to protect yourself and your children.
I'm sorry for the 2x4, T, But the single most helpful thing I heard when I was where you are now is: KNOW YOUR WORTH.
Every person who has read your story, and ESPECIALLY those of us who've been with you from the beginning, is VERY clear on your worth. I rate it super high. You are an amazing woman who has taken on incredible challenges and you make it sound easy. You've done stuff that would be demanding in a happy, supportive marriage and made it look like a sideshow while you're dealing with Mr. Snowflake. I bow to that. Never once have you whined about that at all. You are an amazing mom, too. You've done everything you can to keep your children in a loving, safe environment, you don't slack off on their care even when other obligations get in the way, you've kept their activities up and everything else even when you're this overwhelmed. You're amazing. Don't you deserve at least to be amazing without your "partner" throwing obstacles in your path? Imagine how you'd shine then!!
I know it hurts like a mother, and it's hard not to give his complaints credibility because you've worked so hard to save the marriage. You're in the dark of the tunnel right now. Keep moving forward. Have faith that there's not only light at the end, but a beautiful rainbow waiting for you too. Knowing your worth is fuel for your tank. Once you've got that clear in your head the rest of it will come a lot easier. Instead of wondering what the status is of all his other flirtations (and don't assume he's limiting himself to just one) invest some time getting acquainted with your own Worth. It will be time much, much better spent.
(((((T384))))) I'm so proud of you. You will get there.
T3
I realize you have another child now. And presently a more demanding AND soon a more promising/lucrative career.
These ^^ things are different from your first round of DBing.
But what would your past self, tell your present self to do now? What would your first DB round T3, the GAL T3 who was going to be - eventually - FINE if the m was over, tell you today?
Was the past DBing and detachment a truth you reached or an act as a tactic or did you believe it? Because I was only partly prepared for really ending my m a decade ago.
I certainly GAL big time and it helped immensely. I believed in my head I could be done and make it, but in my heart I believed he would come back.
Actually i still think my h will WANT To return -sometime- but I'm not sure when OR if he'll tell me, and given the givens, it's simply not feasible. Because he'll probably marry OW to show that blowing up our long time M wasn't a disastrous choice for HIM...
But maybe we can learn to be cordial b/c right now we cannot even text. Amazing.
Back to you.
My question really is - if your DB#1 self was ready to move forward if need be, what is different inside you, now?
I know there's another child and I know that makes it harder (though an additional blessing of course). But is there another fear? More self reflection and taking of blame?
I know that baby is newborn and you are exhausted and that's freaking HARD!
So you have to figure out how to at least act as if you are moving forward (fake it till you make it)
so that either way, you are alright. You do have parental support and a career plan.
That makes you more empowered than 90% of the women on the planet.
Dear sweet T3, this is a darn trying time for you. I ache for your struggle.
And I surely don't mean to minimize your pain. Dear God, I don't. I just want you to remind yourself that THIS is survivable and more...
your kids are healthy. You'll have money, in time...
you feel like a boxer punched in the face or gut and you went down, but not for the count.. You are getting back up on the ropes but it's okay to lean on those ropes
your parents are going to help you dig deep into your wells of resilience...and we will be here refilling the wells,
and you'll stand back up, dust yourself off, and take yourself out of this crazy punching ring.
No more punches to take.
((( )))
Great post 25, Maybell and Ownit!
T, my heart hurts when I read your posts. You are a strong woman even if you feel lost and extremely weak right now, you have an incredible strength in yourself.
An affair EA or PA is an affair, it has the same devastating effects, we are being replaced in their mind and heart and become the villain. Protecting yourself legally is a MUST, they don't care about anybody else than themselves.
Focus on the kids and yourself, he is in full MLC, it means he is totally focused on himself and doesn't care about anybody else and when you see a glimpse of caring, don't be fooled. most of the time it's just to look good as a father/husband to others, they liked to be in control of the situation, their move are usually calculated to their best interests only.
Don't expect anything from him, build a new life where he is not part of it anymore, because he might come back but he might not, but at least you won't have wasted your time waiting for him and put your life in hold. You are the only sane and reliable parent left for your kids, don't expect him to have an epiphany soon, he is totally into his OWN needs, look around, is he acting as a father right now? NO, he is acting as a guy who is placing his needs first, and won't mind cutting his family financially just to punish his wife without thinking it might have an impact on his own children. There is a name for that kind of person: j..k
Surround yourself with good friends, accept help from the people who love you, don't count on him anymore and start looking at the light at the end of the tunnel (see that strong independent woman with a successful career and 3 gorgeous kids) , have fun, laugh..
(((hugs)))
I don't really have much to add as I've been attempting to DTR now for almost 3 years and still have not been able to do so successfully, but I just wanted to chime in to say how very impressed I am with you and all you've managed to handle. At your age I didn't have even half of the strength you've shown to handle what life has dealt you.
I know they are just words from an outsider, but I know (for me at least) it's good to hear from others sometimes. To me, history shows that chances are good he will realize what he left and want back in. The question then will be are you willing to let him.
Keep moving forward and protect yourself and your boys. Things change constantly.
Ugh! Lost my post so will have to start over. I really do believe DTR is the best choice for you. I say, "choice" b/c it is a free decision you are making to walk forward, rather than remaining stuck in this mirey clay pit. It is extremely important that you work on your mental attitude and see this as a healthy step forward. You are going to make the biggest 180 ever! I'm going to be here, along with these other good folks, to help guide and support you.
T, your success will mostly depend upon your mindset. I realize your are at an all time low and all you can focus on is the status of your M. That's normal. It takes real effort to turn your face and stop watching your wayward H to see what he's doing, where he's going, and who is with him. I strongly encourage you to stop checking up on him. It only hurts you.
Also on the OW topic. I'm not convinced it's physical. That's my wavering on the boundary
Are you trying to get confirmation that it has gone physical? Now don't get mad at me for saying this........why do you need the evidence right now? At first, you wavered on whether or now there was a OW in the picture. Now, it's whether or now they have been physical. Would this make a difference in child custody, or divorce? IDK, and I would refer you to legal advice. I'm here just to help with the rest.
I don't see how it's healthy for you to be checking on him. How can a woman's ego not feel battered and bring anger, when she is looking at this stuff? For now, my suggestion is to lay that aside. I can't remember your boundary, but I think you pulling the plug hinged on there being an OW. Now, it hinges on the physical act of sex. Unless you need to get things moving to protect yourself financially & legally, then don't put that extra pressure on yourself. Again, please get legal advice.
My dad said there is someone else no doubt in his mind. He said there are chemical changes in the brain (as people have done research on) and that no man leaves his family with a newborn unless he thinks he has a better option.
Men can read other males, just like we women can read females. The women in my family "knew" when my ex DIL had an OM in her life. Her H didn't have a clue, but we knew.
I know THIS M is over but is he a lost cause? Is my hoping he will snap out of this a lost cause?
Yes, for now. You know how we put sentimental, but precious, items in a box to keep? We know it's there in that box, but we don't pull it out every day to exam. Until you get stronger, I'm asking you to try real hard to apply this to your stitch. It may sound ludicrous to you, but just try. Letting go of that rope, means that you don't give it power over your life. That much, you can control.
I hesitate in using the phrase, "snap out of it", b/c it gives the impression of a quick action. If he comes to his senses, I don't think it will be fast. It will be more like something that slowly seeps into his brain. I think your dad nailed it pretty close. By the time your H realizes what he's done, who knows where his stitch will stand. He could have another child by then, or be remarried. Those are barriers that get thrown in the road back home. In the meantime, let him go, b/c he is gone. No amount of loving is going to pull him out of the place he currently occupies.
I got home ate dinner on the couch watching TV where he was then retired to my room. My interaction wasn't someone that dropped the rope - I know.
You handled it well. It's about attitude. Were you sitting there "with him" and watching tv "with him"? Were you doing this b/c you wanted to be near him? Do you have tv in your bedroom?
Sandi I am in agreeement to do this if it's the only thing that will help me to stop crying and feeling the way I do when I'm alone... I will if it's the only thing you think can give me the possibility of this not being my life forever. If this can help him realize what he's doing or what he's losing.
I take this very seriously, T. Yes, I really believe it is the lifesaver you need to grab. In order for DTR to be successful, you have to come to terms with something...........that it is what's best for you at this time in your life. Do it for
you. Don't do it to get his eyes opened. The reason I say this is b/c you must break away from that mindset of doing some action to snap him out of it. You must stop worrying about what he thinks of your actions. Why? B/c it makes you a slave to that mindset, and it prevents you from attaining peace and happiness. DTR on the mindset you currently have, may feel like physical therapy.......but you will get better!
I'll start another post.
Hi all,
Seriously you guys are the best, thank you so much to each and every one of you for taking the time out of your lives to reach out to me. Each post warms my heart, even if it's not what I WANT to hear, it still does because I know you all care about me.
25- So my last round of DB, I think I had ACCEPTED it was over and that there was no hope and that he was with someone else and HAPPY. I think I always had hope he would regret his decision but that he had taken things so far that it wouldn't be in the near future of maybe that he would never even admit to me. I think the key word is I accepted what would be but I never stopped caring. I know I didn't truly detach completely because I was so happy when he tried to come back into my life and I was willing to take him back, with my stipulations.
I told myself before I wouldn't do this again. I also NEVER in a million years EVER thought this would happen again. Even my dad said - I would never wish for my daughter to go through that again, but H it made you a better husband... he said it to me the other day, although he told H when he first came back he would do it again, as time progressed he saw the changes in H and really never thought it would happen again.
My old self would say - are you kidding me? Doing this a second time, after a baby and after you begged to come back? What kind of MAN, FATHER, HUSBAND does it once, twice, while your wife is pregnant in school and working, and then when the baby is born?? The mighty side of me says F him! F him for doing this to the boys and I a SECOND time after he trampled me for almost 6 months last time. That's what my brain says, that's the way I want to feel.
But my heart, the weak part of me, says look at this man - I love him. i love the life we built together, our 3 beautiful boys, this property we purchased to build our dream home less than a year ago. He is lost, he wouldn't leave me for someone else, he must just being going through something. I must have really pushed him away like he said. Why did I do this? What is so wrong with me that he felt he had no choice but to give up? Am I so terrible that he can't stand to even attempt to make this M work because he hates me that much? How can he look at me holding our newborn son and look me in the eyes like he did the other night and say "I feel nothing for you, I don't have those feelings for you" I only feel that way about you as the mom of the boys but nothing more, not that way as my wife. Like God, what is so F-ing terrible about me that I deserve to hear that? Anyway, those are the feelings I struggle with every day... maybe if I would have done X instead of Y he would have never moved out. Maybe I did this and he;s not wayward or MLC and he just truly is done because of me and will be happier without me in his life.
Also I think... is he really wayward or is this just what he wants because last time he wouldn't come around when I was home, he wouldn't see me. He was terrible to me, stopped giving me money. Wouldn't even answer when I called. This time he offers me dinner, stays the night every night, etc. If he really thinking clearly and this is just what he wants???
SOrry that was long, but those are my raw feelings that I struggle with daily. Each day it gets less and less but they are still in the background.
Maybell - seriously thank you! I read your post so many times last night as I was laying in bed while all 3 of my precious boys were sleeping with me (by the way as if getting up with a baby multiple times a night isn't enough, my older two have to be all up next to me kicking and rolling!). I appreciate you and your words and so happy to see that either way there truly is light at the end of the tunnel. Even though I don't know you all IRL, it means a lot to know you think of me so highly. It saddens me as well that H cannot see me that way. Everyone in my life says they see all that I do and run the household on top of everything else and say they don't know how. My response is you do what you have to do. My physician (friend) I was with today knows a bit about what's going on without the details - she said how are you so fine? How are you so normal and happy and functioning? I said trust me you don't want to see me at night lol... Being busy keeps me sane.
And you're right, even if there wasn't an A which who knows if there is, THIS treatment is not okay. That's what my mom says to me, she doesn't know why I want to hold on to a man that is capable of treating me like this. My dad said god forbid you ever got sick could you ever count on him to be there during tough times? He told you he was unhappy when you were 8 months pregnant. He said I have known a lot of men in my life and I have never met anyone that would have the balls to tell their wife he was unhappy during her pregnancy.
Sky- thank you for your words as well. I am not counting on him for a THING. I am planning things I need without him. I have made arrangements for all childcare without him. I no longer ask him to watch the baby or do anything for me so I can complete my schoolwork. I make arrangemnts for soccer practice. For example, I got stuck at the office until 6p last night seeing a patient that I had to send to the hospital - I called and had a friend take the boys to practice and made arrangements for them to be picked up on the chance i didn't get home in time to pick them up. I did tell him I needed money for the house insurance and taxes but those are normal expenses.
Own- as far as the legal front, I've paid to consult with a few L. FL does not recognize legal separation so its just file for D or do nothing. I can file for temporary support should he stop paying but again that is 90-120 days prior to getting in front of a judge for a hearing. Those are emergency cases and would happen if he stopped paying then I would have to file for D and file for emergency support. Since I am not ready in this moment to file for D nor have the money for a 5000 retainer there's not much I can do in this moment in time until I'm ready to file or he serves me.
MM- Thank you for stopping by. It is very hard to let go of everything we once knew and the people we thought they were. My dad asks me all the time- what would you tell your friend if she told you this story. You would tell her that her H was an a-hole and to run as fast as she could. If she told you her H was leavnig for the reasons your H gives you - you would tell her hes full of sh!t. Easy to say until you're in the shoes though.
Sandi - as always, thank you. Thank you for taking the time to come back and explain the same thing to me 10 different ways. Yes the OW thing is an obsession for me. I am getting better at being LESS bothered by it but it eats me away to feel so REPLACED. The other thing is I am so pushed to get this AHA moment of I caught you because last time he hid it for months and then TRIEd to act like it just happened, I know it doesn't matter but my thought is you aren't going to lie and say it just happened again and that it wasn't WHY you left. BUT YES all of this is a mute point - CHECK.
Ya my dad said something similar, he said you can't see what I see but I know there is someone else. Men don't just up and decide to leave their families unless they're chasing something that they THINK is better. He wouldn't be leaving unless he had something he thought was a better option on the other end of the table. he said he can deny it all he wants, but we all know how this story went last time.
Ugh, makes me sick to think of him remarried or having another child, but what will be will be I suppose.
As far as the other night I was sitting on the couch because *I* wanted to. Yes I have a TV in my room but I didn't want to retreat to my room. I wanted to sit there with the baby and watch what was on. When I was done eating I went to my room because I wanted to. I said a few things to him because I wanted to not with expectations and when he was short I stopped talking sat there watched TV talked to the baby and got up when I was ready, not because I was agitated he was being a d!ck (what's new anyway).
Last night I got home and gave him the baby. I sat in my bathroom listening to music and let the baby cry with him for 30-45 minutes. I got my hair cut and colored also. I came out when I was ready. Bbay was still crying, I didn't offer to take him I went to the boys room and hung out with them. I went to my room when I was ready and he brought me the baby. I shut my door after he walked out even though it was only 9pm and we didn't exchange any words. Yes Im civil in front of the kids, but I am not your friend. I'm either your wife or just the mother of your children. I am not your buddy. I can be right in front of the kids but I don't need to talk to you or chat unless I want to which last night I didn't feel like it so I didn't. If that makes me cold and a bitch and someone thats unattractive to him then I guess that's what it will be. I don't know how to strike that balance just yet of detaching and still being that attractive person because I need to be free of him and away from him to help ME. Being around him brings me down and reminds of me why is this happening to my life so by me not interacting or participating in his life it helps to try and forget.
I struggle with if I do this then maybe he will see. But like my dad said, he didn't have the conversation wtih H to snap him out of it. He had it for him not for H. He needed toget the last 4 months of feelings off his chest. He said he didn't expect H to slap his forehead and say you know what HES RIGHT, what am I doing?? He said that will come, but not right now and not for awhile. He needs to hit rock bottom again.
DTR feels so hard, so hard to let go. I am getting there. I am better than yesterday, better than last week. Yes I;ll have some hang ups but I am putting a lot of effort to do so. I'm putting effort forth to essentially do nothing!
Whew - that was long, hope you guys are still with me! It was my first time responding on the computer so it's easier for me to try and address everyone, if I missed somebody I apologize, I do appreciate each and every one of you and your input, good or bad, 2x4 or hugs haha
It sounds like you're criticizing yourself a little, but to me, you sound so much stronger than you were even last week. Sometimes, there's strength in weakness and vulnerability. I think you have hit your bottom and you're about to start standing back up. And, honey, you're gonna shine, shine, shine!
Hugs!!!
I LOVE this post! You truly don't seem like the same woman from last week. I notice you used the word "mighty". That's interesting. If you get a chance, go to my latest post and read those thoughts about staying true to NC. You may recognize them from ... Something tells me you, 25 and I are all window shopping in the same stores.
T0
when you criticized yourself, I thought you were leading up to the realization that this is Not about you.
But you're not there yet. If I could change something, it would be the misguided but sincere belief that you drove him to this. I know you have trouble with detachment.
But I also now believe that your "itchy sweater" sensations about OW and your h's disconnect from you, was based on your sensing the shift in him. You did not cause the shift.
You are not responsible for your h steering the marriage into an iceberg. No amount of cajoling or "truly" loving him is going to right his ship.
He's his own captain. And not to make too much use of the metaphor, your job is to jump off the sinking ship with your boys and get the he11 to shore.
A guy who does this twice, and after buying a house and having another child
is someone who did not learn the lesson the first time.
If you read the ...site, or her book, you will see more clearly why & how you are buying into his narrative, which is simply BS.
We are all flawed. But men with lasting character don't leave women, twice, with newborns, b/c the woman is insufferably terrible.
I know You are hoping he has an internal earthquake & character transplant, and maybe he will, but
You are not the villain and he is not the hero.
((( )))
I LOVE this post! You truly don't seem like the same woman from last week. I notice you used the word "mighty". That's interesting. If you get a chance, go to my latest post and read those thoughts about staying true to NC. You may recognize them from
... Something tells me you, 25 and I are all window shopping in the same stores.
amen
That ... is a hero. Really.
Read the comments, T, it's eerily familiar.
T3,
I'd check into the separation issue a little more. In a quick search I found this:
In Florida, a spouse may request court adjudication of certain issues if there are children involved and the parents are living apart. These include the division of property, child custody and visitation rights, as well as the amount of any child support payments.
Maybell, the comments people post on the ... blog? If that's what you're referring to I believe many of them post here and/or there are so many people that get put through the same crap.
Do you all just think I should just file for D?
Ownit the L I spoke with stated that if I didn't want to file for divorce we could file for support/visitation/etc which is what I was talking about. She just said that it would take a minimum of 90-120 days to get a hearing.
I just have a burning thought/question... is he in a sane mindset and is just over this M? That he is rational, not in an A whether it be PA/EA and this is truly just what he wants which is why he thinks we can be friendly?
My dad said he didn't say much except he did say he wanted to keep the boats here this way we could all still go out as a family etc. My dad told him absolutely not.
I just wonder that because those of you who remember last time remember how terrible he was to me... wouldn't come to the house if I was here, wouldn't answer the phone if I called, etc.
I know my course is still the same... I'm just wondering.
I'm just rambling I know... I do have a reason for this post... I think
As you all know I do not text H... I haven't heard from him today, not surprising but no clue on if he is planning on coming here. He had been texting me when he was on his way home from work and used to ask if I wanted him to stay the night. The last week he has stopped asking and stopped telling me he is on his way and just shows up as he pleases at whatever time he pleases... I already have the boys showered, dinner fed, laundry done, and the baby just went down (he usually sleeps from 8-10:30 and then is awake until about 1230am his schedule is very confused), so he really comes here to shower and be on the couch. Long story short there is a soccer tournament this weekend. This is the first soccer event since he moved out. It will be pretty awkward with all the families there that we normally hang out with as couples/with the kids and nobody knows what's going on. Point being, do I ride with H to the tournament? It is about an hour away. I can load the car and pack everyone myself, I just have to get up super early and make sure everything is ready but I'm capable of doing it alone. However, I believe he will be coming here to stay the night if he continues coming here nightly as he has. Do I suggest we drive separate? Just not sure what I should be doing.
Also, next Saturday there is an international soccer match we bought tickets for back in March for the 5 of us... Do I tell H it isn't a good idea that he goes? It was going to be H, the boys, I and my dad. I can get rid of H's ticket (they were like 100/pp) so I imagine it won't be hard to find someone to go... just not sure how to handle these things?
These are not questions that someone who has DTR should be asking - I believe I know the answers .... I just know I am not going to like the outcome of them... he is going to start treating me like he did last time, being a huge you know what.
T3:
If it takes 90-120 days then I think you should be filing asap to get on the hearing schedule. Why wait and then have the delay. Your actions are about what you want. His actions are about what he wants. If you do not want a divorce, then I would not file for a divorce. If he wants to do that he can. I WOULD however IMMEDIATELY file to resolve the interim child custody and support.
I don't think you can read much into the monstering patterns. Mine was very nice to us the first few months of OW2. Now he is being distant and if there is any R discussion (and by that I mean me trying to get the separation contract out of him) he monsters. He was horrible the whole time with OW1. You are still looking at him too much, but then you already know that.
I would not go anywhere with him at this point.
I agree with your father, I don't think he would have walked out on you guys without the new woman waiting in the wings, especially given that it sounds like he still doesn't have a place to go much of the time.
Yes Im civil in front of the kids, but I am not your friend. I'm either your wife or just the mother of your children. I am not your buddy. I can be right in front of the kids but I don't need to talk to you or chat unless I want to which last night I didn't feel like it so I didn't. If that makes me cold and a bitch and someone thats unattractive to him then I guess that's what it will be.
Well.........I do believe I am seeing some rope sliding. It starts with this kind of right thinking, T.
I love him. i love the life we built together, our 3 beautiful boys, this property we purchased to build our dream home less than a year ago.
You love the life you had.....and what you thought was secure. You love the person who had the kind of character a man, H, and father
should have. And that is the person you have trouble letting go. That's the man you miss. That's who you want to come home. You may need to grieve for who he is used to be. ((T))
You talk about your old self and what she would have done. She's still there, but you keep telling her lies.
He is lost, he wouldn't leave me for someone else, he must just being going through something. I must have really pushed him away like he said. Why did I do this? What is so wrong with me that he felt he had no choice but to give up? Am I so terrible that he can't stand to even attempt to make this M work because he hates me that much?
This ^^^^^^^^^^ is destructive self talk. It is taking all the blame for his actions, and painting him to be some kind of innocent little boy who was mistreated by his big, bad W.
Maybe I did this and he;s not wayward or MLC and he just truly is done because of me and will be happier without me in his life.
If what you say were true.......then why the change in him? You know what I mean. Why did he wait till the worst possible time to walk out? Initially, I wanted to think it was pressure, or some deep hidden issue....like a split personality, or something. As for giving him a label of wayward, MLC, or WAH.........I am reminded of something Vanilla said. She said she believed in bad behavior. I think it sums this up very well. I mean, why his attitude and lack of interest in his own newborn son, or the other two, for that matter? This is not what a man of honor does, T, and I don't care how bad the W may have been.........an honorable man does not walk out on his 8 month pregnant W (carrying
his child) and his other young children! And every time you start taking all the blame for his behavior........I am going to tell you his character is not honorable. If you were so awful, there were other ways, decent ways, he could have handled the situation. I still agree with your dad 100%. Your H found a new pu$$y and his integrity went out the window. And even if there was no OW, would you want to have him back, knowing this could happened again at any time? An OW in the picture makes more sense about his behavior. It doesn't make it right, but makes sense. Otherwise, it's just creepy.
Yes the OW thing is an obsession for me. I am getting better at being LESS bothered by it but it eats me away to feel so REPLACED. The other thing is I am so pushed to get this AHA moment of I caught you because last time he hid it for months and then TRIEd to act like it just happened, I know it doesn't matter but my thought is you aren't going to lie and say it just happened again and that it wasn't WHY you left. BUT YES all of this is a mute point - CHECK.
I think it must be an obsession with all LBS, and I would probably be the same way. As an observer, however, I can see what it's doing to the LBS. If I recall correctly, how he was behaving was the obsession.......and you wondered if he was cheating.
I see LBH's wanting to punch OM's lights out, and they want their WW to know that they know about the OM. So, it's not unusual to have these feelings. But it doesn't solve anything. For whatever good feeling you might have in catching him, it wouldn't last. We know from the last time, it won't matter if he's caught.
So anyway, positive self talk and attitude will help in DTR. I know you have spunk! You just need to stop listening to your lies and let spunk rise. And as Train would say......shine baby shine. (What a great group of ladies you have, here. Loved reading their posts. As my granddaughter would say.....Yeah, Girl Power!)
I just have a burning thought/question... is he in a sane mindset and is just over this M? That he is rational, not in an A whether it be PA/EA and this is truly just what he wants which is why he thinks we can be friendly
This is impression management. He knows what his behavior looks like so if he can get you to play along the narrative will look like "we grew apart" not "I'm a massive a$$ who walked out on a postpartum wife and three small children."
Also possibly testing to see how much of his cushy life (boats, etc.) he gets to keep and how much he loses. My ex suggested he tag along to my family's annual beach trip and share a room with my younger brother (single at the time), just because he liked the trip.
Remember, NONE of this is about you.
I read your sitch and follow closely. I have so much to say, but really can't get it out.
I mentioned my ex began cheating when I ws pregnant and left me when she was 6 months old. He lied to me and said there was no OW. Just blamed it on me. I found out about OW 6 weeks after BD. I found out the cheating began when I was pregnant not until we were already divorced and they were engaged.
When a man leaves their wife and newborn child, there is clearly something wrong with THEM. Honestly, it's a sick thing to do. My dad and stepmother still want to kill him to this day for that and can barely look at him. I did what you did. I thought I must have been so horrible for him to do that.
Well, I began to realize it wasn't me. It's him. I was just so devastated. We had our IVF baby, began our family, and he left. I thought my life was beginning and it felt like it was ending. I would have done anything to just come home. I couldn't envision life as a single mother sharing holidays.
But that's what happened. I survived it. I know it ws the best thing to happen if he wasn't going to change. I don't want who he is. He was never a good guy, that's where my sitch is different, but I mourned the death of the life I envisioned. It's difficult but it was no necessary.
I am not saying your sitch is going to end like mine. There was a poster who had her H cheat when she was pregnant with her first, they were headed towards divorce.....they reconciled and she just had her 3rd kid a few days ago.
My point being, you will be better than ok and better than although it may not seem like it now. But I can guarantee being with the man he is now, you will not be ok And that's on him. Not YOU.
Own, I am not quite ready to file for that today, I am meeting with a few other L just to feel out who I like and to get my name on everyone's list so it leaves H with little to choose from lol. I'm sure there's someone else but I just haven't found concrete proof - my dad said this is his second time around so he's probably just better at hiding it. And that he's nicer this time because he's done this before and knows what works and what doesn't.
Sandi- I am slowing letting the rope drop. I am going to get there. I don't want to make excuses for him... I just am trying to realize my side of the street and hearing him utter those words to me so much over the last 4 months that it's me starts to get in your head. But, like my dad and other family members have told me, no man with character or a conscience walks out on a family with a newborn baby. I read this article today that says once you get married its not about your happiness anymore, its you before me and we before I.
He did say I pushed him away, pressurign him to know if he was IN or OUT of the M and that I wasn't happy with the fact that he was TRYING but didn't know if it would work out... so that's where those thoughts come from.
As far as A, you're right, it doesn't make a difference really right now and obsessing about it makes what's going on about him. I guess knowing it was happening would make me feel better in a creepy way (it would hurt like heII too) but at least then I would KNOW it wasn't me... it was that he succumbed to his weakness and chose the easy alternative.
Maybell - I do believe what you're saying. I don't believe ANYTHING he does is for anyone but HIMSELF. If he does somethign that some people would read as a positive - I don't believe it --- I believe every move is calculated and he's only doing it because he wanted to. I really started believing that after this weekend when S9 asked him to come to pick out a fishing reel/rod set up and he declined. I was very say for S9 but we got it taken care of on our own and had a good time at that!
And yes, my friend said she knows H is just concerned with how everyone is going to look at him. SHe said that's why when soccer starts back up he's going to be feeling things out. She said he's the type of person that is so concerned about his image and doesn't want people to think badly of him. I won't share details but I won't protect him like I have been for months... My dad said I won't need to share anything but saying he moved out. He said people will make their own assumptions and judgments just on the fact that we have a newborn - he said need not to say anymore than that. Haha, my dad has a lot to say obviously... we are both talkers incase you all have noticed
Ginger - You're a tough cookie and it sounds like your dad is just as supportive as mine is. I appreciate you coming back and always reminding me that it's not just me. I get in my head a lot and let H get in my head. I know I have faults and I have things to work on but as I told that nasty girl up north who messaged me saying obviously something is wrong with you if he had to leave you twice and that I need to see that hes not the one that's wrong --- I replied that I know I have my faults but the difference is here I am standing here willing to work on myself to better myself, I didn't run away the moment things got tough and the moment we faced adversity. That was a few weeks ago, I have not replied to her since.
I know I'll survive and one day i will look back on this time as a distant bad memory.
T,
Your posts hurt my heart to read! I feel like ranting about what a special POS your H is, but that does no one any good, so I won't. ... I appreciate your willingness to share your emotions and rawness and your motivation to really work through this. You are a very special lady. I am drawn to your posts because of this.
When I read all of your fears, self doubt, and wondering "what is wrong with me?" "What does he think when he looks at me?" "Is there any hope he will come back?" It gets me because I said those exact words just 3 years ago. I felt, said, and thought all of them daily for a long, long time. I can see now, years later, that it was me that held me back and not H! It is your FEAR and not your REALITY that is hurting you. You WILL have a great life with or without him.
It was especially challenging because even when I tried to hide it and play the part of accepting it, I just couldn't. He saw through it. He saw through it because I was doing it to win him back and not for me. You have to get to a point where you shift your mind and start making choices for you and not for the M. That is gone and over. I think for you this starts with laying firm boundaries, including a clear schedule for the kids. Minimize all interactions. If you are forced to have them, then you practice your acting skills for your own dignity (not for him and what he thinks) and then you exit situation!
I blamed myself, I felt that I wasn't good enough, and I couldn't even accept it was really happening. I was just like you. ... Now, in your thread, I keep reading the same questions and the same answers--thread after thread--and I see you just can't quite get there. It's okay. Please don't beat yourself up for that too. Go easy on yourself--lower expectations of him AND YOU. You will get there in time. It took me 8-9 mos of torturing myself to finally drop the rope, and even then, I don't know if it ever hit the ground.
Here is the thing tho, it is the best relief you can offer yourself. None of us--as much as we want to--can do that for you. It's the hardest thing you will ever do. But you can do it! Let him go, pretend he is never coming back, and somehow, some way, you WILL start your healing process.
I'm sorry--this was rushed--I just want to help you! XOXO
Blu
sometimes the hardest thing to do in life, is the healthiest, right thing to do.
((( T3 )))
I haven't heard from him today, not surprising but no clue on if he is planning on coming here. He had been texting me when he was on his way home from work and used to ask if I wanted him to stay the night. The last week he has stopped asking and stopped telling me he is on his way and just shows up as he pleases at whatever time he pleases
Short response: He's the distancer. You're the pursuer. You've flipped the switch. You're now the distancer. No distancer wants to be the pursuer, so he's going to pull allllll kinds of manipulative tricks to turn you into the pursuer again. The easiest trick in the book is to not contact you. It would usually make you (a pursuer) chase him. DO NOT fall for that silly nonsense. Stay the course and watch how HE becomes the pursuer in time ....
Point being, do I ride with H to the tournament?
We're DTR, remember? Make your plans to get you and the kids to the tournament, whether that's with friends or family. Don't factor in H. And if H mentions the tournament - or y'all riding together - at the last minute, just tell him you and the boys already have plans to ride with others. Easy. And perfect.
Do I suggest we drive separate?
No. You just either A. have a friend show up and pack up their car with everything ... including the kids ... and leave, or B. wake up early, pack up your car .... including the kids ... and leave. If H gets up and participates and you don't mind if he rides along, then let him ride along. You don't wake his sorry a$s up, though, and you don't remind him about what time he will need to be up or anything like that. Basically to you, he's an annoying fly on the wall, and you treat him as such.
Also, next Saturday there is an international soccer match we bought tickets for back in March for the 5 of us... Do I tell H it isn't a good idea that he goes?
Do you have the tickets? If so, then no. You don't tell him a thing. You just assume he's not going because he's up someone else's a$s and surely he wouldn't expect to go with you since he's out courting a woman and her family instead of his wife and her family. Don't give his sorry a$s a ticket, and don't even mention it to him. If, in the 11th hour, he shows up at the house, have the guest there that has taken his spot and act surprised that your H would even THINK that he was still invited because, well, why WOULD he be? He has checked out of the family. He has fired you as his W. So NO. HE DOESN'T GET A FREAKING $100 TICKET TO WATCH SOCCER. IN FACT, HE DOESN'T GET AN ESCORTED WALK TO THE FRONT D@MN DOOR!
Sorry for yelling. But that deserved emphasis.
the comments people post on the... blog? If that's what you're referring to I believe many of them post here and/or there are so many people that get put through the same crap
The ... is fab. I like to read her now, even though H and I are back together. BUT (and though I can appreciate the sentiment from others suggesting you read her site), you REALLY have to be "ready" for that reading. You're probably not there yet. It took me a longgggg time. But when you ARE ready, you will know, and you will appreciate it and find it, well, humorous. And possibly helpful. And empowering.
PS I will only call your H a sorry a$s while he's abandoning his W and children. If he ever turns his life around, I will not consider him a sorry a$s anymore.
Just needed to say that before I have to deal with somebody giving me a hard time.
Train's
hit on 2 things I want to reiterate
your h did fire you from the wife job. I'm so sorry as I KNOW that hurts to hear. Believe me it was only a month or so ago that I could hear that and not feel a gut punch. It still hurts, but less.
So what's with all the "should I do X"???? Nope...
(I acknowledge the increased hassle of not having him around...but the thing is, you don't have him around now - and when you start to wonder these things about including him so you can get help - totally understandable - you are forgetting he's not reliable! You are hoping he will revert back, if only for the day...but dear God that day will $uck for you.
He's not who he was...remember?)
his statement that he feels nothing for you other than the mother of his children was cruel. Period. Yes you can say "but is he clueless?? Maybe that feeling is only Temporary??" .
But...so?? It was horrible of him to say.
Last, ...Train has a great point about when to be ready for it. The name itself turned me off but someone told me it was hilarious, and that tempted me so much I had to look. And I have laughed when i really needed to, while also having realizations.
And yes, something clicked in me when I realized how much heavy lifting I had done for so long, to convince myself that the few scraps he threw me, were enough to overcome the massive evidence that he simply was not as interested in our family or marriage - as he was in his tundra adventures or his exit affair with the OW...
and even though my ego is very sore from the bruises, and I was on my knees thinking I was so lacking for h to choose a place over me/our family, again (I gained 15 lbs!! I had suddenly hospitalized with seizures and was thus "needy"! I had been a shame & not run for the US Senate!" - yes an actual comment h made in total seriousness..)
.I'm embarrassed to say that I bought into his insanely high expectations of me and self servingly low ones of himself as a dad/husband...which was a recipe for my self esteem to erode a whole lot...
I mostly see him differently now... and I feel better. My detachment has moved forward. I'm not blaming myself nearly as much. I'm throwing his choices back to his shoulders...
and That is why I mention the site
but I'm not you.
One thing at a time...
I love every word of that ^^^, 25.
Ditto what everyone above has said, and I personally want to reiterate one thing in particular
H DOES NOT GET A FREAKING $100 TICKET TO FUN.
Heck, I'm not that far away.
I'LL COME DOWN, PAY THE $100, PACK YOUR CAR AND BOYS, AND WE'LL ALL GO!
(((((((T))))))))
^^^ Now that sounds like a plan!
Haha Leah that sounds like a great idea to me
25 - everything seems cloudy to me. I think because I'm overwhelmed. I believe H was the man I needed. But I don't know what happens that he turns into this person
Everyone that knows us says he will regret it and that you don't put your own happiness ahead of the kids and you don't leave when you have a newborn.
I'm feeling super discouraged today. H still continues to text with boss daughter. Now he's talking on the phone an hour a day with an ex from prior to we met. She lives far away but they never talk and haven't seen each other since before we met 13 years ago. She's divorced with 3 kids... I just think what great advice he's getting from all these people that don't know me us or our family. They only know the lies he tells. He's so easily influenced and just looks to People like this to make him feel justified in his decision. Same crap as last time...
I am struggling with my feelings and like if what I'm doing is the right course of action.
He continues to remove himself further and further away as I have distanced myself. He went from at least asking about my day asking about the baby and thanking me when I would have the kids call him to stone cold silence. Like not a word. No communication AT ALL. it's like he's a mute in the house and when he's not here there is no text communication. It's now where he won't even call my phone to talk to the boys. He sent me a text last night 'have boys call if awake'
Like he can't even make full sentences.
I just feel like I'm pushing him further away.
Today is one of my down days. I recognize that.... trying to handle it and switch it around. The office is slow today so too much time to think.
T3,
Sorry, by its 2x4 time. From this post, you are:
1. not dropping the rope;
2. continuing to snoop;
3. continuing to compare yesterday to today.
The snooping is going to kill you. You are also using it to mind read. Perhaps he is discussing banana bread recipes with these women. You really don't know.
What you know is that he doesn't want to be married to you now. He is using your house as a flop house. He is not being an acceptable parent.
When I have read about your life, I want to be one of your kids. You get out and do more than anyone I've heard of despite working on your degree, working, having a newborn, having three young kids.
You have a kicka$$ life except you keep letting this loser get you down. Sorry, but now he is a big fat loser.
You are being mopey and sad T3, not the fun-loving, life of the party you were before. Please stop caring about the person he is now and live that precious life. If the old H comes back, you can change your mind but that guy is not on the planet right now.
Ha Ownit, you can be one of my kids any day!
We rode the train into the city yesterday and we all managed to make it out of the house and made the 9am train surprisingly... we took the 945pm train home and it was raining. I was on the wrong side and was on the side for the southbound train. Didn't realize it til after the train had came to the station. If you can picture all of us running in the rain and me pushing the stroller. Quite entertaining for the by standees but the boys and I laughed once we were safely on the train lol
Like I said I know you all think I'm nuts but it really truly doesn't show to the outside unless it's my family that know what's going on. I have distanced myself from majority of my friends who don't know what's going on because I don't want to talk about it but my few very close friends are actively in my life and commend me for continuing on with my life. You guys and my parents are unfortunately the ones that take the brunt of it.
Not that I am excusing my actions. I just don't want this to come off as of how I am in real life.
Today was my last day in internal medicine. I told the dr I'm with not to tear up haha. He offered me a job !!!
but he said he knows my passion is intensive care but if I was interested in trying to let him persuade me he wanted the opportunity. I told him I'm always open to all offers so at least my day ended on a good note and he sent me home early.
I know the snooping is bad but it's almost like it hurts me more to not know. I have to know to remind myself of where he is at mentally emotionally etc.
I don't believe I'll ever be able to relate to how he just turns his switch off to caring about me and prefers to not have me in his life. Why am I the scape goat for all of his problems from his job the type of dad he is and the man he is. Why is it all my fault in his mind. I'm always the scapegoat and it [censored]
Oh and I got on H Snapchat today since he never uses it.... the girl he's been phone chatting with had sent him snap chats back in early June before he moved out of kissy faces and saying goodnight pictures of her in bed saying goodnight.
How many women are there
Oh, T.
Why are you bothering to snoop? IT DOESN"T MATTER. He's not treating you with respect and the silent treatment is mind games. Why do you want in on a guy who can behave like that to anybody? If he were a stranger you wouldn't even want to be friends with him, right? So why worry about what he's doing?
Here's another 2x4: He may never regret leaving you.
Because he's that shallow.
Karma may never come for him. He may never know what he's missed out on because he doesn't know to value it. It doesn't matter to what you need to do to take care of yourself and your boys.
In my business we talk about the Three Boxes. There's Your Box, The Other Person's Box, and God's Box. Whenever you start spinning, stop and ask yourself: whose box am I in? If you're snooping, you're in his box. You can't do anything about his box. The only box you can impact is your own. If it's not his box and you can't impact it, then it's God's Box (or the Higher Power's box, or the Universe's box, whatever). Spend your emotions on your box -- you'll sleep better and recover quicker.
Your Snowflake has his own agenda, same as he had last time. You can't know it because he doesn't want you to know it. That's his box. Let him have his box. As far as I can tell it's a smelly one he's used to dock under a bridge somewhere. Also it's tiny.
Congratulations on having a job offer! Congratulations on ROCKING IT like Wonder Woman and giving your boys all these great memories! You do an awesome job with your box.
Hi Maybell,
I guess I am a lot weaker than all of you. I just am given this [censored] sandwich that I'm supposed to eat and just not care about how he treats me, what he does, that he doesn't care about me, etc. I don't know how all of you guys just let it go and not snoop or not want to just scream at the top of your lungs.
I like to believe I am pretty mature and pretty level headed. I know I sometimes think pretty black and white but I would be lying if I said I didn't want to scream at him. I want to know what kind of a man does this a second time. What type of man conjures this story that his life is so terrible he has to walk out again and erase me from his life like last time.
I was starting to type a text asking him to not stay the night when I hear my dad talking to him on the phone. He called my dad to ask a question about the boys and ask about if they wanted him to bring them dinner tonight. Here we go... just like last time. Now he will call my dad so that he doesn't have to speak to me. What a re run of the same crappy movie all over again.
I don't think I'm meant to DB... I am not as good of a person as you all are to just let it go. I want to know what is so wrong with me that we have to go through this again.
In this moment, I feel like I have to file for D. My old self wouldn't ever put up with this a second time. My brain is screaming at me to stand up for myself and kick him to the curb. My heart is screaming at me to save my M and hurting that I have been replaced. Just like a piece of trash I have been thrown aside.
Ugh tomorrow will be a better day.
Hi Maybell,
I guess I am a lot weaker than all of you. I just am given this [censored] sandwich that I'm supposed to eat and just not care about how he treats me, what he does, that he doesn't care about me, etc.
This^^ is not true. I cared so much about how my h saw me and bought into his insanely high expectations that it left me reeling to see his indifference when I got so sick last fall. A light bulb went off but it was not "the spotlight". I had moments where I got confused again and backslid, and thought "this cannot be what h wants"...
but at some point you get too tired of the pain and T3, where the head goes, the heart will follow.
In the face of so many actions that mostly speak of h's desire to be done and finished and moving on, I accept that and I accept that only a fool would do this.
I do not have to understand the fool, thought I thought I did. Spent FAR too much time trying to do that. OMG so much wasted time! And self inflicted pain...
Nope, just need to understand ME and what I want. Plus, fact is, I cannot understand h. He's not operating with the same moral compass or narrative that I am. Neither is your h. Period. Don't put a rational spin on irrational behavior.
I don't know how all of you guys just let it go and not snoop or not want to just scream at the top of your lungs.
I've not snooped b/c it would be too painful. besides, enough others do it for me.
"just let it go"??
I've awakened sick to my stomach from nightmares, many times. Oh and I "stopped" being in menopause (sorry if that is TMI) so my body is telling me something earth shattering has happened to my life. Don't assume we don't all feel a deep blow to the heart and a gut punch...I know I do. I do meditate on that free app (Insight timer) on my iPhone and I do pray a lot.
I try to turn it all over to God b/c honestly, it's too much turmoil for me to handle alone. I think out the "turning it over" and I say it and I hear it. Seems like it sinks in more.
But there are 2 things I found out about ^^this pain.
First, the pain can be so great that you numb yourself (even without booze, I mean).
How? Not positive but it seems like you just shut down and turn off pain sources for self defense . Zero snooping...and I mean, zero. If there's no financial/legal point to it, then endless wondering is endless suffering.
And Somehow it begins to hurt less. Noticeably less, and I have to assume it's a self protection mode, and or God, saying "enough". At least for now.
Second, I can step back sometimes and look objectively at the actions of my h.
They're just lousy selfish really ODD choices. Cliched too. Dishonesty, selfishness, and some lunacy thrown in. No thanks. Really, no thanks. Takes a lot of self forgiveness to be able to look at our warts/flaws and say "even so, I deserve better" and know that it is true.
When I step back to look, NOT at what he said/says once upon a time or what we once we had, or what I thought we were going to have/do, or believed we planned together. I mean, look at what is real now.
SEE the lousy crap for what it is, and say "THIS is Not okay. In fact, it's crazy bad".
-
In my ditch,
YES T3, it feels like being replaced. It IS being replaced positionally (at least right now) And really fast...it's painful and embarrassing - though I think he's the one to be embarrassed, frankly,
And it's nutty as he11 behavior.
To the point where I find myself thinking, "Wow, Good riddance to lunacy. I won't stoop. I will do NO "scorned ex -still married -wife" yelling or posting. I will stay dignified and let him go down in flames.
In your case, who cheats (or has "wildly inappropriate" r's with OWs) on a pregnant wife or leaves her with a newborn baby and 2 other sons? Who does this a second time?
Not a guy you can be with now, That's who. Step back and think about whether you want to play the "Pick ME!" game for the rest of your life.
Because I have a feeling that unless he has an earthquake within, you won't feel safe with him again.
No sign of earthquake in sight. I'm so sorry.
--Here we go... just like last time. Now he will call my dad so that he doesn't have to speak to me. What a re run of the same crappy movie all over again.
Sorry
I don't think I'm meant to DB... I am not as good of a person as you all are to just let it go. I want to know what is so wrong with me that we have to go through this again.
whatever your warts and all, he's been acting like a jerk to you. And at a terribly vulnerable time for you & your little ones. You did not force him to leave the home with a newborn, you did not force him to buy pricey items for himself, you did not force him to lie to you.
[color:#3333FF]
we cannot all save our m's but we can save ourselves. That is DBing, and you are doing a great job at it.
[/color]
In this moment, I feel like I have to file for D. My old self wouldn't ever put up with this a second time. My brain is screaming at me to stand up for myself and kick him to the curb.
well you are in a doorway trying to choose which way to go.
My heart is screaming at me to save my M and hurting that I have been replaced. Just like a piece of trash I have been thrown aside.
Ugh tomorrow will be a better day.
yes it will be a better day. Remember this pain is not eternal or fatal. You will get past this & raise 3 great sons. And you will be happy again.
KARMA-- either your h will feel deep remorse and be haunted at some level, b/c he hurt the 4 people he should have loved the most, which would be karma #1
OR he's not able to put others ahead of himself or to be honest when it's "hard"...and
that means you won't be with that type of guy. You won't lose your soul a little at a time with that sick "wonder what he's doing now??" Feeling or modeling that for your sons.
you may even find a good solid man to help you raise your sons.
That's Karma #2.
karma #3 is all of the above.
I snooped like mad. I still occasionally get a bit twisted up about Mr. Fantastic's girlfriend. I DEFINITELY screamed at the top of my lungs. I did all the things you are doing. I just felt like I didn't have very many people around me reminding me that I didn't have to take all that. A few people told me I was letting him have his way without really any consequences and how much I rolled over and pined for a guy with no character has had repercussions in my career and my relationships with my children that I've had to grow out of. Maybe I'm being too pushy with you because of how I felt when I was going through this, and if I am, I'm sorry.
Here's what I'd say. Certainly it matters THAT he's cheating. It's not unimportant. The thing is, when you go down that road, you get yourself all twisted up in your place in his cheating, and the truth is, it's nothing to do with you. He does what he wants to do because he wants to. (When my ex was explaining his cheating in MC, I asked him how he could do such a thing and his answer was "I thought I'd do something for myself for once." As though OUR WHOLE LIFE wasn't about what he wanted to do... but I digress) So when you start worrying about what about you drove him to it, or whether you can ever get him back, and all those windy endless roads that line of thinking will take you down, you've missed the point. It's not to do with you.
I personally would love to see you file. Not because you've been replaced. But because of the peace that comes from cutting the cord and saying, "I'm done." It's not painless peace, but it's a space where you can think of the things you care about and what you want your life to look like. That's what dropping the rope feels like. Just a nice calm space where all that panic was. It's an incremental thing. You have to decide, in a moment where you're starting to get hung up on who he's talking to or why, to just... not. And redirect your thoughts to something more constructive. And then do it over and over again until one day you realize, you haven't cried or you haven't panicked, and you haven't checked your phone for the texts he didn't send. It's a place where you can observe him doing manipulative things like talking through your dad and just say, "Huh, the guy I thought I married wouldn't behave like that," rather than getting all hung up on why he's doing it and what it means and if there's any hope for the marriage.
You're NOT weak. You're amazing! This is some tough sh!t you're going through! So... get THROUGH it. Don't hang out here admiring the view. Rather than giving effort to why HE's doing what he's doing, observe how you're reacting and try to understand that. Your heart will have an easier time following your head once your focus is someplace constructive.
I'm so proud of you, T! (((((T384)))))
T,
You ARE one of us. You just don't remember it yet.
But the good news is: you're on your way. Without even realizing it. You're exactly where you need to be, girlfrannnn.
ALWAYS in your corner .....
what she said^^^.Your h feels
entitled to his choices and that is why he makes them. He felt regret during or after the first time, when he seemed to have gambled too much.
Time passed and life presented the joy (& responsibility of another child/ new home -so
he felt entitled to Gambling with his marriage and his enlarged family again.
If this were any other time in your life, I suspect you'd say you know enough to know if there is an affair.
I'm not sure about the details you seek. Is it proof OF AN A, or all the details? Because other than an actual video of the penetration act (
gross), why bother?
(I'm asking, not belaboring the point that I would not).
Anyway, I send you strength and peace and comfort T3...
Somehow I just know that you will be alright, and that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Can't explain how I know, but I swear I do. We are all supporting you in getting there.
I'm acutely aware of how you feel in terms of being replaced, let alone so fast. It wounds deeply and draws blood.
I also understand the ceaseless internal questions of HOW and WHY we were so hurt, how and why someone can seem to change overnight, or maybe reveal their true selves or whatever...
I know the recriminations we have of ourselves - first for somehow causing this rejection, bringing it about ourselves, and then later, the regrets for not seeing our h's true selves earlier...
be gentle with yourself. We cannot know all the answers and we will not.
Reading about people who "just want to understand why" - now it just makes me sad.
My own son31 says "Mom, the reason 'why' is that dad is a selfish fraud. Stop wasting your life wondering why, mom. Dad is GONE!"
Hearing my own son^^say this so firmly^^^reminded me of
the Caroline Myss' quote,
endless wondering is endless suffering.
And it's self inflicted. You do not deserve endless suffering.
You deserve romantic love, deep loyalty, & easy laughter & abiding respect. You will create this in your new life, as will I.
Please know there is a light at the end of the tunnel, because there is. And we are all supporting you in making it there.
I wanted to chime in to say that I completely understand your statement "I know the snooping is bad but it's almost like it hurts me more to not know. I have to know to remind myself of where he is at mentally emotionally etc." I feel the exact same way. I snooped horribly when my H first left and unfortunately read some things I now wish I had never read. I can't un-see or un-know them and sometimes I think that holds me back.
Just based on the actions you take and the things you describe doing on a daily basis I would never say that you are not as strong as others. Just making it through the day with 3 young boys is a feat and you actually make it fun for them.
The advice you are getting here is so great. I am reading and taking everything in for myself as well. I hope you will continue to read and take things in as you can. Its such a long process.
I can completely empathize with how you feel and have definitely been there and had many of the exact thoughts. One thing my IC suggested to me was a "God" or "Universe" box. She knows how much I like to fix things, so she suggested this. I really have found it helpful since I am the kind of person who needs to physically do things. She suggested that when I have an issue/problem that I cannot fix (mostly in regards to H...) I write it down on a piece of paper and put it in my God box. This reminds me that I cannot control what others are doing, but it lets me do something by putting it in this box and giving control over to a higher power to deal with.
On my phone so bear with me
25 - your posts are so thoughtful and insightful. You really push me to dig deep and I can feel the pain you have worked through.
I don't know that he has high expectations of me he just wants to be done because he views me as the problem and source of his unhappiness. That if he eliminates me from his life he will be happy again.
Yes I have to remind myself there's no excuse to leave. My grandma said we all have our faults but it doesn't mean you just walk out. He said he is self absorbed and only worried about himself and his happiness.
I don't know why I struggle so much with him talking to these other women. ESPECIALLY the one from up north his mom got involved. They text constantly and she 100% supports his decision to leave. H is very easily influenced and I can't help but think she's helped him feel like leaving is ok and feeling justified in his decision.
But yes I have my faults but I'm still standing here in our home with our boys willing to look st myself and my contributions to become a better person.
I do hope karma comes around. My whole family tells me it' will but it's hard to see this coming full circle with where I am right now.
Maybell - thank you for your continued support and time to rewatch out to me. I do need to stop snooping.
H told his mom last night he was getting his own place. She said she didn't say anything. I said are you kidding?
This is why he's like this. He's her son and she's so afraid to upset him like last BD that she doesn't want to say anything. So me snooping is a way of preparing for what he's doing because I'm not ready to be the one to act. I'm going to see another L next week but I really don't think I'm THERE yet to file.
Train - thank you. I always always appreciate your support and advice.
I feel like you all are so strong and that I'm just not there yet to let go. Trust me I want to. I really really do. But hearing that he's actually getting his own place And telling his mom about it really put me back.
25 (again) haha - yes he feels entitled and justified. Like my C said he's built up this army of people who support him and tell him he's making the right decision which gets his head bigger and bigger. But my dad said he has no idea what reality is right now. I don't need details of the A. I just need to know for certain there is one. There are too many women he's talking to so
At this time I can say he's definitely at least taking inappropriately to women.
I know I want to know why and my dad said he probably doesn't know why. That I just have to know he's a weak man that gives up when there's adversity. That he walks out when things get tough.
MM- thank you for stopping by. We sound pretty similar in our actions/way we see things. Snooping is hard. I want to know and fix everything. I guess I will have to try this box idea. I have found myself talking to myself at times so that I don't explode or send a text I will regret. I'm really losing my mind talking to myself in the car on my long commute lol.
Our AC was on the fritz so H worked on it all night. We didn't exchange 2 words beyond me going out there asking if I needed to call the AC company.
Anyway he woke me up at 2am saying his eyes were blurry and thought he needed to go to the hospital. So I went out to the living room. I had some stuff in the house and flushed his eyes out, he was shaking and in a lot of pain and was throwing up. I stayed out there with him for at least an hour until his vision was back to normal and he wasn't sick... I gave him medicine put wash clothes on his back and told him everything would be okay. It made me sad for him. Sad that this is his life that he can't see that my care for him is unconditional. That he can drag me through the mud and at the end of the day if you need help I would still do that for you ... I was half tempted to tell him to call one of the you know what's he talks to. But anyway I asked him if he needed anything else and went back t my room and haven't talked since. I didn't cling on to anything I was just simply there to help him because I'm sure he got something in his eyes from fixing the AC.
Anyway that's where I'm at... I don't even know. In denial? Sad? Angry? Frustrated? Big time denial is for sure where I'm at.
Hey T3,
I always felt that you and I were similiar in that we both obsess about our sitches.
It's over a month now since W moved away and I feel myself getting stronger and stronger. Yes, it still hurts but I catch myself singing in the car now. Or I catch myself smiling at other people and they ask me why I seem so chipper. HUGE changes for me.
You are at the worst part of the journey right now. I was actually a little surprised I didn't completely fall apart when W left.
Sometimes you just have to say screw it and surrender to what is your reality. Once I did that, I felt such relief. Yes, I still get down and I miss W and D like crazy. But I dont have any control over that so I let it wash over me and then move on with my day.
T3, it gets better. If it has gotten better for me, it will get better for you.
Also, I used to snoop back in the day and started to become an obsession. Once I stopped, my anxiety/depression got so much better.
Look, your H is an ass. He's done this before and he's done it again right as we were ready to give birth. What that tells me is that this really doesn't have much to do with you. It's him. He has issues and I feel confident he would have done this to any woman he was married to.
You can't fix him. You have to surrender that he is broken and unless he realizes this, nothing is going to change. That only way to allow him the opportunity to realize he's broken is to completely and totally leave him alone (aside from parenting discussions). That's exactly what I did and now W is miserable and texting me wanting to fix things.
Stop snooping. Accept that the H you once knew is gone and will not be back for a long time. Surrender to the fact your kids might not grow up with both their parents together. I know you dont want that but it is your reality, accept it. This is currently your life, T3. The good news is that it won't be your life forever. Open your palm and let him go.
As soon as you can do these things ^^^, you will start to feel relief.
Hang in there.
endless wondering is endless suffering.
And it's self inflicted. You do not deserve endless suffering.
Very wise words! Not to lessen what your H has done, but from where I can see.....you are currently your own worst enemy. Seriously, T! A lot of your suffering seems to be self inflicted. You wrestle with your feelings. (I know you are venting, btw, and this is just me responding to your venting thoughts). May I ask what better alternative you think would be successful? I mean, when you start saying you are concerned you are pushing him further away...........what does your mind tell you to do? Something similar to what you were doing before the baby was born.....and even later? You pursued, was his friend, gave him sex, played house, went on family outings.......and it did not stop him from this quest he has undertaken.
You are trying to sort through the sh't mind of a wayward, and even worse........you take the fall for him. You ask why you are always his scape goat. Maybe b/c you are willing to bear his sins for him? If I remember correctly, that was the symbolic purpose for scape goats. Maybe I just want to make you a little angry, b/c I had rather see you mad than watch you act like a goat.
.
Sweetheart, you will never be able to figure out his mindset. Heck,
he can't even figure it out........so what makes you think
you can? The difference here is that he repeats the same action, as previously, which is to make everything that's wrong about him.....
your fault. It's your fault he is cruel to you. It is your fault that he's not being a better father, and that he doesn't behave like a M man. It's all your fault, T. You ran him off.
Now, is that what you really believe? I don't buy it for a second. You are smarter than to believe all that b.s. Every wayward I have known IRL, and read about, blame their spouse! I think it must be in the wayward DNA.....or something, but it is definitely a pattern waywards follow. Do you know why they blame everything on their LBS? B/c in their minds, it justifies their actions. It's part of their demonizing and demoralizing work they do, hoping people can't smell their sh't as badly. If he can make you (of all people) believe his b.s., then that's a gold star for him. Every time you go into trying to rationalize what made a good man go bad, you end up in the same place.........which is, it must be your fault, b/c that's the only thing that makes sense to you. Listen T, sometimes people lose their moral compass. It may go deeper for some......and their actions/behavior may be worse than others. It is still wayward behavior. He chose to be a dishonorable man.
There are several things that waywards all have in common. Just to name a few: It is usually a surprise to the LBS that things were that bad in the R; waywards have a hidden agenda before they leave the MR (which means they have engaged in an A, or they have their eyes on someone, or they just want to sleep around); they exit the MR in a dishonorable fashion; they blame the LBS for their problems; they try to hide their "other" life until an acceptable time......so that people don't see them for the scum they really are; they pay for their selfish happiness at the expense of their family; they don't want to save their M; and they live in a fantasy world; and they love, love, love....cake. There are other things, too, but I think your H fits the bill.
Unfortunately, this is not an exceptional stitch, other than it being
your stitch. What I mean to say is that your WH is not different than any other ordinary WS. I really wanted him to be an exception, he is like every other wayward I have ever known and read about on this board. No matter how many times you compare this last betrayal to the previous betrayal, it still equals the same answer........wayward husband.
Stop blaming yourself. Stop trying to prove he is in an A. Stop holding your breath to see of he comes back. Drop the rope and stop making his behavior the center of your thoughts.
((T))
T3...
((( )))
my dear young mama friend,
Re OW...the sad truth is, you know the sad truth. Enough of it anyhow.
as for the rest, I believe some of a previous post bears repeating...
I'm acutely aware of how you feel in terms of being replaced, let alone so fast. It wounds deeply and it draws blood.
It's not real on his end, but it hurts a LOT now. You believe You are the obstacle to HIS happiness? You believe you must be removed so HE can be happy NOW??
If you believe that ^^, if you believe that you "made" him miserable enough for long enough so he HAD to lie and be with other women (inappropriately at best)
and he HAD to buy shiny new pricey objects, and lie about them, and collude with others about how miserable he is, so he can get their "buy in" to leave and still feel like a good guy,
when the truth is that he's become a selfish fraud,
then slap yourself in the face and say "That's not the truth!" Because it ain't.
You are gas lighting yourself.
(((T3)))
Just here for support, but I had to comment on this
Like my C said he's built up this army of people who support him and tell him he's making the right decision which gets his head bigger and bigger.
I identify with this so much. H did this, too, but with a male friend he made the first time he left me. He's a nice guy, but can't manage a healthy relationship of his own and likes to go out on the town and chat up women. When we reconciled, this friend would pout if I was with them. He wanted H single again, and H saw it and it became an inside joke between us.
This friend would barely say two words to me. I'd try to talk to him, but he had no interest in getting to know me. H joked "Well, you're with me so he's got no use for you!" Yeah, great.
Late last year, I'd see some texts H sent to him after we had an argument. "Oh, Cadence and I had another argument. It's resolved but it's just a matter of time until the next one!"
I asked him about that; if it was wise to be confiding about our struggles with the friend who wants him single. He'd insist it was fine, and I'd be surprised how supportive this guy was and that he knew we had something special.
And guess who is probably thrilled he has H back? This friend treated me as if I were temporary, and H made that come true.
I saw it happening, but I couldn't stop it. H thought I was jealous or wanted him not to have friends, but it wasn't that. This guy was clearly not a friend of OURS.
I had to accept that H knew what he was doing. And it's a matter of the chicken or the egg. I can't say this guy influenced him to leave as much as H set it up to have support to make the decision to leave. I feel like it's a bit of both.
But, like some posters have said, it goes in the God box. The same with you. You don't know if your H was innocent, and these people are influencing him and he can't see it, or if he actively wanted to build a support system of people who would influence him away from your M.
Sorry for the derail, but I thought it might help you put that in context. I know you're aggravated about these people he talks to.
T3- you are effectively a single parent without a partner.
Your h wants to be a part time dad and a single man.
^^^That is what the evidence says. That is what HE says he wants, (no feelings for you, nice). And that is how he behaves.
We will not ever understand their reasons. Ever...
Your H does not know the real answers. What answers could he possibly have that are "good"??
Who could admit that maybe they are fundamentally flawed? Maybe their inner struggle to change & act selflessly in a consistent manner needed of all parents, has failed?
Who could admit that in fact, THEY are more important than their families are?
Who could admit that justifying lies comes easily b/c hey, it's not really a lie if you deserve the thing about which you are "lying"? OR "just don't look at it that way.."
AND OR lying is okay b/c their spouse will "overreact" to the truth, or worse, b/c they don't want you to be hurt.
(See? Lying is noble!)
Reading about people who "just want to understand why" - OMG now it just makes me sad. That was me...Big time!
Now I feel like I spent 2 years in mental prison asking unanswerable questions, giving my h far more space in my heart/head than he gave to our entire family.
His painful tears at Retrovaille bought him a DECADE of marriage and family life and that was me clinging to the day long remorse he felt. Thinking it meant so much more...
and I was not fully being around for my kids (or myself) b/c I was so preoccupied not believing what was in front of me - OMG the regrets!!
That is why I keep harping on the issue.
Please let go of the need to know why, and deal with what is in front of you.
You are not the villain or the loser.
I'm not saying you must file for D this month.
I'm saying you must protect yourself legally/financially, (get a strategy)
and you must DROP THE ROPE and start not giving a $hit about your h. He's gone.
Your h is not a special unicorn. I wanted him to be...but he's not. Read Sandi's post...
If your h ever really deeply "Gets it" regarding the pain he has inflicted on the 4 people who loved him the most, AND IF he decides he wants to change, AND if he seems able to do that work to re-establish trust, YOU WILL KNOW
There won't be guess work b/c that would mean, by definition, it's not happening.
In this regard, your situation is simple. Gross, fetal position painful, appalling and horrific, but not complex.
So stop the wondering.
And you will begin to have it, when you drop the rope and let your h crash by himself.
You are an amazing woman to have dealt so well with this $hitty hand.
You deserve so much better than this. I can't wait for when you realize it!
((( )))
T,
You have the best supporters/advice here, so I may not have much to add, but I will try :-) You mentioned that you are weaker than the rest of us or that you are not able to DB. My goodness that gets me in the gut! If you only knew how wrong you are!!!
When my H DB me and then left me for OW, I could not even bring myself to make an account or post at all! Even though I read here every day and tried to take it all in, I just didn't have the strength or courage to do it. In fact if you read my sitch you will see that I failed at DB for a long, long time. I was just like you in that I ruminated about H and what he was doing every day, I snooped (but there wasn't much hidden because it was in front of me), and I spun in circles for a LONG time. Even though I read here and logically understood he was running from our life, I still completely blamed myself. I felt like a complete failure. I couldn't accept my reality, that he could really do this, and that he would never come back. I was a skeletal, anxious, depressed, shell of a person! But I am not that way now, I am stronger than ever.
So that was years ago and a lot has changed. I can tell you without a doubt that I was wrong and that you are wrong. Our Hs are different, but there are many similarities. Now I have asked all the questions and I have the answers (in my sitch anyhow). So pleease trust me when I say, this is not about you and this is not your fault! This is about his inability to cope when life has obstacles and that he is wayward and running to any quick fix to superficially feel better. He has to try and blame you for his unhappiness because that is the only way he can justify his chitty behaviors! He will look and hold on to any reason to blame you because then he doesn't have to look at himself. He will rally anyone that buys into this BS so he can further justify his choices. He is far, far gone right now. There is nothing you can do to bring him back. Different players, same script.
So no you cannot change him or make him see the truth, you know that. But what you can do is take away all his ammunition and give him nothing. You turn all focus off of him and back on to you. Let him go (you have no choice anyhow because he has left). Let him go off on his own and he will feel the natural consequence of these choices and sadly for him, there will not be any light at the end of his tunnel. My H now describes that as the darkest time of his life (even though he had OW right there swooning over him and flattering him). It is quite simply stated that "we are all responsible for our own happiness and no one else." He is responsible for his and you for yours.
T, you are so much stronger than you know. Just the fact that you continue to post here and share your vulnerabilities, take the 2*4s again and again, and then you get up each day and keep trying, is pretty amazing! I couldn't even do that! You are living and honest and authentic life and that is what is so admirable about you. He is a selfish, arrogant, wayward, and as long as he knows you are there and waiting, he will continue to walk all over you.
You may not see it yet, but you are on your way. You are gonna rise above this arse-hat and have a beautiful life. The strong T knows that he is not making you unhappy either. He doesn't get that power. This is about you and your perspective. You are your own worst enemy. Once you feel strong enough to drop the rope and start healing (and you will get there), then you will learn that you really don't need (or want) this guy. Try and have some patience with yourself, this takes time, so please try and hold your head up and show yourself more kindness.
Blu
Hi Thornton,
Thanks for checking in on me! I totally get what you're saying. You know today I thought to myself while I was grocery shopping (I only had the baby so I had time to let my mind wander lol), anyway I thought to myself the way I am acting and listening but not doing what I'm told is similar to H. Everyone that cares about him has told him how he's messing his life up, he needs to think about what he's doing etc etc. But he continues to go the opposite direction.
Much like you lovely people continue to tell me this is my reality and i need to let go and I haven't yet. I know it's not totally the same but I can see when it's not what you WANT to do you fight against it, much like what H is doing. I don't think I'm fighting against the advice though, I really want to do it and I feel like I am getting there slowly. I just want him to feel the gravity of his decisions and none of that will happen while hes so present in our lives.
I was thinking how he woke me up last night and I took care of him, he will never have that from me again and I don't know that he gets that. Not that it's my concern to worry about.
This morning he woke up and asked me to look at his eyes, they looked pretty bad. I asked him if he wanted me to make him an appointment. So I did and I drove him there. He laid on the couch like he was at deaths door and I got all the kids ready took care of the dogs and loaded everyone up and drove him there. He did thank me. I dropped him off at the house, he offered to come with me to pick up my computer but I declined his invitation. I came home to a package at the door. He said it was for a guy friend at work. S6 caught him texting and sending a picture of it and said it was to a girls name XXX (boss daughter). I sat and pondered confronting him. I haven't yet because I'm not sure that I should. I know hes lying, hes been lying for months. It's not about that, I think it's just about disrespecting the boys and I in our home and disrespecting everything i have done for him in the last 24 hours, but he's been disrespecting everything I've done for him the last 13 years so why does what I did last night and today matter? I know the answer to this is to say nothing and work toward getting him out of the house so that these communications he has with other women won't be under the roof of our family home. That's how I know I'm getting better because I didn't even cry about it I had a short moment of anger sitting here wanting to go out there and then it left me and I've decided - well that's sad for him that he's ordering thigns for other women and dumb enough to have them sent here. Wow he must really think I'm dumb, if he only knew.
On a funny note, my dad finds it hilarious that H is laid up like he's dying. he keeps texting me that it's Karma starting lol. H supposedly had a work event at a big bar downtown that he has to miss. Poor guy.
Hi Sandi - I guess the reason why I take the blame is because he is behaving differently then he was last BD. Last BD he was DEFINITELY wayward.. wouldn't come around call text or have anything to do with me, wouldn't even look at me. This time he is sleeping on the couch, brought me dinner last night. Very up and down. He also told my dad he still wants to keep the boat here so that we can still go out as a family and maintain the family unit for the boys. To me I don't know that that is wayward I look at that as just someone who is done and has thought this decision through and feels this is right for him and wants to make the best of it. So I think that's were my struggle and blaming myself comes in as if he's so willing to maintain the family unit but just doesn't feel anything for me but wants to keep the family traditions up if that makes sense. Last time I remember asking him early after BD to do something together for the kids and he flat out refused. He spent hours working on the air conditioner last night, last BD he would have never done that. My dad said he thinks he just wised up from last time and learned what didn't work.
But yes all that you're saying about waywards DOES sound like him. He is delusional to think that everythign is going to be the same and we just won't be married. I don't know that he can even picture what life is going to look like. I mean hes telling others hes getting his own place but can't even have that conversation with me. My dad told me last night when I was upset that he is about to get a really big dose of reality here soon. He only thinks about today, he doesn't think about the big picture like I do.
I feel as though I haven't made much progress. I feel stuck. I feel like he is further away as I've stated. I know things are about to get worse. Tomorrow I am going to have to tell him he is not coming with us to soccer. I know that is going to get the ball rolling of him not paying and him sticking it to me. I am not ready for that but I know it's what I have to do. I have allowed him to continue to do what is convenient for him and he has not had to bend at the knee for anythign since he left. My dad told me why would he want to come back? why would he want to fix things? His life is better, he comes here whenever he wants, talks to whatever girls he wants, doesn't have to answer to anybody. He's living a fantasy right now, why would he want to trade that in. It is so very true.
Cadence - I'm sorry to hear about your H's friend. I really can't stand people like that but I also have to remind myself that ultimately my H (and your H) are grown men that SHOULD be capable of knowing right from wrong and being able to say now. i find myself wanting to place some blame or 50/50 blame on these people that make him feel justified because I know that H is a very weak person. Just like your H with that friend he will speak to whomever is goign to tell him what he wants to hear because he doesn't want to be questioned. Hence the only people he is talking to about it that are pushing him towards D are people that live 1000 miles away and haven't seen him since before we met 14 years ago. God forbid he actually talks to his friends that live here and that know us both and our family.
25- I know I am wasting time sitting here wondering what snaps in him that he all the sudden does this. I truly believe it's him being influenced by this other free life he wants to lead. the boss and her daughter and the guys at work all ride motorcycles - he wants to be like them and be free. They are all single or going through a divorce. its quite creepy actually.
it's funny you say that about lying becasue when I confronted him about the motorcycle he said I knew you would say no and be mad so I mind as well just do it anyway. I said you ASSUME, and it's because you don't know how to handle it the right way. I know I deserve better and I think that if you told me I wouldn't have to share my kids 50/50 I would be okay. My kids are everything to me and I don't want to miss out on their lives for a second, I don't want them doing things with him and another woman that we used to do. I know I have to let that go and I can't control it. It needs to go in the God box, but damn it really really is something I am struggling with.
I just want to know he's going to be sorry again one day, I want to know one day he will see what he gambled and lost. I know I can't hold my life waiting for that day.
I am going to DTR, I am getting there, I know it will happen, I can feel it getting closer each day... i find myself less upset, wanting to react less, etc. I am not saying I won't have bad days because I just had one yesterday but I can feel the change in me.
I wish we could post pictures here so you all could see my sweet boys and the baby with these huge smiles he has on his face. That's what keeps me going, but makes me sad at the same time that he's walking away from that. It's his loss. He will miss out on so many milestones of our son.
Hi Blu - Thanks as always for stopping by. Everything you describe is EXACTLy how I feel. THank god for my boys because they make me get up every morning put on my big girl pants and get on with the day. I don't want to look back and regret missing out on this time in their lives especially the baby, I will never get that time back so I won't let him take that from me.
Everyone thinks the pressure of buying the property getting ready to build the house and the baby coming got to him. That he got this new group of people at work that have freedom and no responsibilities and here I am this pregnant wife working and in school that isn't a whole lot of fun to be around. I had hyperemesis until the end of my pregnancy and only gained 4 lbs so I know I wasn't fun to be around.
I know you say you don't have a lot to add, but boy you really do. Last time he said it was the darkest time of his life as well and that he would never jeopardize his family ever again no matter how tough things got. I don't feel I need to say anything to him anymore. I have apologized for my faults and attempted to right them to no avail... i will not apologize anymore because it just fuels him further. I don't feel he will see what he is doing for a very long time. Last time it took things ending with OW and him being alone (because he cannot be alone, he doesn't know how to be, which is how I know he is romantically involved with someone because he doesn't know how to be alone).
I do know that I deserve better. I;ve thought a lot about that today just watching him lay and sleep on the couch all day while I take care of everything. I think about when I was pregnant that he never lifted a hand to help me or didn't go out of his way to treat me with the kindness I have given him today. Then my mind starts spinning that he is so capable of treating these other women with kindness but he wouldn't pull me out of a fire if he were a bystander. It hurts, I acknowledge that feeling and it [censored]. I try to remind myself that is within him and not a reflection of me.
What man can say that they treat their wife the way he has and I still wake up in the middle of the night to take care of him not to win points but just because that is who I am and that's what he used to love about me.
I'm ready to get to the point of telling him to F off. I made my work schedule and unfortunately will be gone alot from the boys starting in August but I need to for financial purposes so that I am not relying on him 100% I will not be working full time becasue of school but still will be gone a good bit. Makes me more angry at him that I'll be missing the baby more and more. Our plan was that i wouldn't go back to work after the baby and would be at home wtih him and focus on school. Just have to pinch myself and remind myself that's the past and not how it is now.
I am the person a fool would leave. I know it. I know that he will not have with these women what he had with me and our boys. He is looking for something he is never going to find. He doesn't know how to maintain happiness. His happiness is only external.
And by the way, thank you to each and everyone of you for lifting me up and thinking so highly of me. It means a lot and it makes me feel good about myself when I don't feel that way. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Reading how you feel about me is heartwarming and lifts my spirits. I know my posts are probably frustrating to read and pretty much say the same thing over and over but it is just me being honest about my day to day feelings and struggles because I feel that is the best way to help me is by putting it all out there. It is therapeutic to write it out because as I'm writing it I am starting to see that some of the things sound ludicrous.
Hey T! You sound good. I love to read these stable posts where your anxiety isn't in charge, because I know that you're doing well and aren't torturing yourself with your own thoughts.
I just want him to feel the gravity of his decisions and none of that will happen while hes so present in our lives.
Don't we all wish that could happen? But you're fighting a losing battle here, T, because this is in the god/universe box. You're trying to control the uncontrollable. Try as we might, we can't make someone else think positively of us or see our value, especially if they are in a state of mind not to want to see those things.
Your H could feel the gravity of his decisions while he's present, but more likely, he won't. Human nature is that it takes time and a sense of loss to look back and start second guessing ourselves.
Your H is a particular case, because his WH mind sees anything to do with you as something that is oppressing him and taking away his freedom as a man. Essentially, you've been scapegoated. As a former stepparent, one of the worst things about the role is how eager people are to treat you like an object and scapegoat you for any difficulties in the family. It's hard to know that people view you as causing something that you know in your heart isn't your fault.
Your H is not open to seeing you for you. In order to follow through with what he's bound and determined to do, he needs to see you as oppressive and controlling, and you have no power to change it. The one thing that might change it is you letting go and stop the urge to change his opinion of you. Live in the total absence of control (aside from setting healthy boundaries for yourself, of course! But boundaries don't try to control someone else, they're about what we will and will not accept for ourselves, and what we will do if boundaries are crossed.)
I just want to know he's going to be sorry again one day, I want to know one day he will see what he gambled and lost.
I have a feeling it will come. No man walks away from a family right after a baby is born and maintains a feeling that his actions were right long-term. Right now, he wants that to be right, so he needs someone cast in the enemy role, and that's where you come in.
Also, as a former stepmom, I can tell you that his life is not going to be without sorrow, challenges, and regrets. I know your oldest is very clear with his dad about his hurt. He will continue to do that because of his personality and it will be a major stress on any relationship H has. (Of course you'd never try to foster these feelings in your children. It's best for them to have a good relationship with their dad.)
Everyone thinks the pressure of buying the property getting ready to build the house and the baby coming got to him.
These are classic MLC triggers. We don't know for sure that he's in a MLC, but it's possible.
So you might be able to understand/stop blaming yourself, an MLC is all about repressed issues coming to the surface to force the person to deal with them. An MLCer is reacting to that feeling and trying to shape their life to get away from the repressed issues, not understanding that they are inside of them and won't go away. So they look for escapes.
I find H's relationship with his mom to be interesting. The way he seems to regress after BD in terms of his mom, and how she seems reluctant to speak up to him. Did he have to caretake his mom's emotions when he was young? I ask, because his relationship with his mom seems odd and because that will really mess a person up, and when the repressed emotions come up, they're going to be incredibly angry at anyone they feel is emotionally or financially dependent on them. It's going to feel like a vise, squeezing out their freedom and life's essence. And they're going to want to get away from those feelings.
If I'm right, then this would be happening to any woman H had built a life with, unfortunately. I may be totally wrong, though, as the above is just speculation because I don't know your H's story.
I'm ready to get to the point of telling him to F off.
I hope you mean that figuratively. Put on your professional T384 demeanor, because H is a distant stranger to you now. You will treat him like you do your patients: you'll be cordial, but keep up an appropriate professional boundary. Due to H's choices, the two of you are in a professional environment now, where you share the project of raising your three boys.
What man can say that they treat their wife the way he has and I still wake up in the middle of the night to take care of him not to win points but just because that is who I am and that's what he used to love about me.
You should be proud of your integrity, T. Don't look to him to validate you here. You did an amazingly kind thing, and even if he doesn't show it, he saw it, too.
I am the person a fool would leave. I know it.
I'd like to see more evidence that you do. You are so tough on yourself and you hurt yourself. I'd like to see you treating yourself like you would a treasured friend. If a friend was struggling, you'd listen, you'd understand that her emotions will fluctuate, you'd validate her, and you'd tell her all the reasons she's an amazing person.
Be your own best friend.
Hi Cadence,
My anxiety is still here but I'm trying to curb it before it gets crazy lol
Well I did it! I loaded the truck up last night and was as organized as possible. Gosh I really feel like this was the best morning ever getting out of the house with all 3 kids and not having H's help (normally he does help). This was our first event since he moved out. Anyway I packed the tent coolers bags laid all our clothes out the night before woke up early to feed the baby and the boys got up like a dream ate breakfast and we were ready to go. H comes up from the couch and says 'do I have time to shower' I said I will send you the address it's best we drive separately and walked out the door. My dad sent me a text that he was proud of me for doing everything on my own and what a joke H is that he can't even get himself ready in time let alone help with any of our 3 children. I won't lie, doign it all alone sucked... one of the dads on the team knows about it, he is a L and has advised me on some things as well as referred me to everyone I am seeing. i carried everything alone and left the baby in the car with the boys and he helped me set up the tent. I got back to the car to see the baby had a poop explosion in his car seat all the way up to his shoulders, I changed him in the car got a new outfit etc and then he puked all over both of us. We went to the bathroom to clean up, no soap and no paper towels so I washed my shirt in the sink and sat and dried in under the hand dryer. I swear I thought I was being punked lol. H strolled up after the game started, made his rounds talking to all the parents, Mr. Social. Everything turned out okay though.. he brought me a Fiji water, said he researched that it is the best water for you. He also stopped and got me an Icee and got the boys one too. I just thanked him and continued on with my conversation. The dad that's a L, is nice to H, but obviously is very upset he's doing this. Anyway he got a little dig in and I had to chuckle to myself. We were talking about how his daughters were at this concert and the wife of the singer they said was so rude. I said what does she have to be mad about, she has the world at her finger tips. He goes you know, some people just dont realize what they have, they are too worried with what they think they don't have instead of looking at what's right in front of them. I said ya you're right and smiled.
Anyway, one of the families we hang out with invited us over to swim, cook out, and have some drinks. I am sitting in my room debating on if I should go or not. They know nothing.... the boys want me to go. So I have no clue what I am going to do. I'll probably go and have a good time and come home and go about my business.
So on the boundary discussion ... he doesn't know I know about these women. I thought about giving up the snapchat thing and saying while you are in this home do not disrespect us by engaging in conversation with other women. If he says he doesn't I thought abotu saying well maybe you should tell X that she shouldn't be sending you pictures of her in her bed with a sports bra on and walk away.
I'm not convinced this is the best move but I am putting it outt there for advice, etc.
IRT his mother, they have always had a strange relationship. I don't have enough time to delve into it completely but long story short she is like a child. We always joke about it. She sees disney movies alone and lives in a fantasy land. H and his father never had a good relationship growing up. his dad is a glass is half empty kind of guy. He didn't go on family vacations a lot if he was angry and just is pretty negative. When I first met him he told me don't waste your time with H he never finishes anything he starts. I felt bad that his dad would say that at dinner in front of him. H said his dad has never told him he's proud of him and they dont say ILY. H moved out at age 15 to the girl H's mom had talk to him the nasty one that said all those things to be about how he deserves better etc. He lived with her she was like 25 at the time (I think she's 10 years older than he). His dad never supported any of his sports or endeavors because he didn't like what H was interested in. H older brother and his dad are close. He played baseball growing up which his dad loved so he always participated in his brothers activities. As far as his mom, she lives in la la land. My parents said that;s the only way she can stand to live with her husband. She does not live in reality and never wants to deal with trouble or issues. My dad said she would be the one on the battle field to line up last and let everyone take the fall before her.
I'm not sure how their relationship was when he was younger as far as her expectations of him and what he had to do. I know she took him to his sports events and was very involved but involved in what SHE wanted. For example, the boys when they were younger were picking out a DVD to watch in the car for a long trip, she persuaded them to pick a different movie because it was something she wanted to watch. She's not malicious just very out of touch with reality. She calls me and knows how bad everything is and wants to talk to me about her garden or bowling, etc. She's always been like that, I can remember telling my mom I can't talk to her on the phone becasue the boys would be screaming in the background and I would tell her I had to go and she would continue on about her pool filter or her cable box, etc. She told my grandma she almost lost H last BD and she won't risk that again. She held his feet to the fire last time that she wouldn't have a relationship with him if he did this and he cut her off and ended up apologizing and making things right before he even tried to come back home last time. I feel that made a big difference...
this time he knows he won't have consequences, there relationship will continue on. He told her he was getting his own place and she said she didn't say anything. She told me, 'what was I going to say, he deserves to be happy'
My grandma and her were very close, my grandma came down kind of hard on her and said you know H needs you to be a parent and not a friend. Sometimes tough love is needed, his decision is going ot affect everyone, it won't be everything the same and just he and T won't be married. Everything is going to chagne whether you guys want to see that or not. She said oh no he told me he will bring the boys up for 2 weeks every summer and they will still spend the week with us every time we come down. My grandma said she told her you cannot believe that is the truth...
Anyway, I don't know if that helps explain her better. They don't have much of a relationship as far as honesty, I've always said their relationship is very superficial. He always used to joke and say oh my mom is calling I;m not answering I'll never get off the phone with her, she needs a hobby and needs to get out of the house she's so bored all the time. She lets my dad control her life and doesn't know how to stand up to him to be happy (she wants to move down here he refuses, they live 1000miles away).
I know I was kind to take care of him, it wasn't hard for me, it actually made me feel sorry for him that he thinks there's better out there for him. But that is who I am, I won't let him take that from me. Now once I get served with D papers I may have irrigated his eyes with something that wasn't saline
You need to stop comparing notes to how he's doing this time from last time. Does it matter? Really.......does it matter? It gets you nowhere! It is you putting stumbling blocks in your own path.
agreed. Not sure why there's any comparison other than "oh, so he did it twice"...
means he did not learn the REAL lessons from the first torturous ordeal.
And to me, having a 3rd child and buying a house - means even more that it Means nothing about you.
Also, fwiw, I get a tad irked about the "stress of a new BEAUTIFUL home and another WANTED child" b/c it's just not what adults call nightmares they have to flee...
he wasn't in combat or fighting brain cancer or caring for a dying parent.
(I mean, Geez...YOU were the pregnant one and the one in school!)
Christ, I moved each time I was pregnant, including a move to Alaska, and to Texas from the east coast. I Was working and m to a DOCTOR (I like putting that in all caps). Means he was AWOL for raising the kids, etc.
But in your situation, other than it's the second time and it's not about you, -
That's all I can glean from the 2 events.
((( )))
I guess I'm comparing it because he's being different this time... He is still staying over at the house which he wouldn't dare even see me last time and hes still paying for everything which last time he wouldn't give me any money so it makes me think ... is this just really what he wants and he's in a sane mindset and really thought this through?
That's why I compare, I know the outcome is the same but it makes me worry he's not a wayward and there's no fog it's just that he has stopped loving me and wants to be amicable.
Last night he told me he wanted to be honest with me that he wanted to get his own place. That he's been telling me how he feels and I just don't listen and don't want to hear it. I said I was sorry he felt that way and I hear what he's saying. I said I can hear what you're saying and respect your decision but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. He said he has no feelings for me and he's just done. That me bringing up the flowers he brought just made him realize that it's going to be like this for the rest of his life and that anything is going to spark those emotions in me because of the past and he can't live that way. That he can't fix my insecurities and it's always giong to be something with me, theres always going to be stress in my life that's going to make him miserable whether it's me being in school, having the baby, etc. I am always going to have an excuse for everything. I didn't really say much to that. He said after 3 years I should be over it, and I said I will not take blame where it's not due, that I hadn't brought up anything since we R and that his behavior had changed a lot and I was talking to him about my concerns. He said that I kept having to talk about it and kept having to push him and I pushed him away. I said I was8-9 months pregnant with a husband that couldn't commit, he said I told you I just needed time, and I said well what about what I needed? I lost 15 lbs while pregnant and asked you to just show me you cared, I said you didn't ocne text or call to check on me ever, he said well we were talking during the day, I said only if I initiated, if not I didn't hear from you. He said well I don't know what to say, I'm just done I don't have those feelings for you anymore. We don't have to be enemies, we can be friends. I've been happier these last few weeks just being nothing but civil with you. I said well H the life you are living now is far from your reality and he said I know that. I just left it at that I'm not asking anything from you. He said I know that you think I'm a scumbag and that's how you're always going to think of me. Somebody can't live their life unhappy and after going through this with you so many times somebody can only take so much until they realize this is how it's always going to be, this is just what you're giong to do and how things will be with us and I Don't want to do it anymore.
I just said okay, I don't want you to be miserable and unhappy and I don't want to be either. I said I don't want to be with you the way you are now either. I said I'm not asking you to mvoe back home or kiss me or tell me you love me. He said good because I don't feel that way. I'm tired of people telling me what to do that I should do this or I should do that, nobody is in my shoes, they don't know what its like to live my life in this house. I said well I'm sorry you feel that way you're an adult and you can make your own choices as you clearly have been doing. I'm just asking you to think long and hard about this road you are going down... He said I have and I'm not being influenced by anyone I'm making my own decisions and not talkign to anyone about it. I know you guys all think I'm this and I'm that and that i have someone else in my lives that shows how little you think of me.
I said I haven't said anything about that in a long time, he said ya but you did befoer that's how we got here you think I would be involved with someone from work, you're always going to worry about someone from work for the rest of my life and I can't live like that. I quit my job because of you because of the flowers and then I realized it wasn't worth losing my job over that I shouldn't feel that way in a marriage and its like a spark went off that I'm done because I don't want to feel this way, I want to be happy.
He ended the conversation with continuing to tell me he doesn't have those feelings for me anymore, he doesn't look at me and want to do the things a husband does. I just said okay, I'm not asking for those things. Feelings change, I understand that, the way you felt months ago isn't how you feel today and the way you feel tomorrow may not be how you felt the day before. I get it. I got off the phone and didn't come home til late with the kids, I took them swimming and to a BBQ at a friends... he didn't even acknowledge me when I came in and was very very cold and miserable looking.
I have to keep reminding myself it's about him. I feel I did my best to curb the conversation and not retaliate to all of his details of why this happened and how he doesn't have feelings for me. I didn't cry or yell or plead to change his mind and I ended the conversation first with I have to go.
Like I told H, I am willing to take blame where it's due but not where it's not. I said there are things I would have done differently, like when I was pregnant I had a lot going on and yes I should have curbed some of the conversations but I was panicking. I said that wasn't really a fair time to say we gave it a shot to work on thigns with school work pregnant and then a newborn. That was when he said I would always have an excuse. I said we both could have done things differently and I wanted to be able to rest my head on my pillow and be able to look at my boys and tell them I did everything I could.
Oh, and he told me we need to sell the house and the property, that it's too expensive, he doesn't know how he's going to make the payment next month since I'm not working. That we need to liquidate our assets (vehicles, boats) but didn't mention the motorcycle. I had to bite my tongue on that one. He wants to get rid of what's important to the boys and I and not the things he likes.
I just said I wasn't making any moves on selling anything at this time.
He said that he was tired of working so hard and killing himself. That he had plans to retire when he's 50 and wants to just go fishing everyday.
I didn't say anything but laugh on the inside. He won't be retiring at 50 paying for 3 young boys to grow up in 2 separate homes. My dad said he is delusional, he has no idea what he is getting himself into and that the happiness and life he is chasing is the life that he already has and doesn't realize it. The job offer I just got would put the 2 of us making insane money with our combined income. We would have life, from a financial standpoint, knocked. If he serves me with D papers or gets his own place, I will file and wrap this up before I take a new job making good money. I know he can take me back to court to re-evaluate what he has to pay but even if he just has to pay a lot for a short amount of time I'm good with that.
My dad keeps telling me my pain is temporary and his will be for the rest of his life, that karma will come around.
T384
Oh my...well, as for the prior post about what he said/what you said/then he said/then you said/
it has ALL been said before. Literally. No need to rehash things, which should be abundantly clear to you now.
What else is there to hear that you have not heard several times already?
Have you seen the L? Please do NOT begin or sign a contract for a new job yet. Get his credit report to see what else is out there that your name might be on.
Please learn from my mistakes. Do NOT believe/assume or wait until he "sees the light" "does the right thing" & "is less angry" at ME. Believe me, his anger levels are going to grow and there will be animosity for some time.
My h told his L that he'd "rather be a pauper than pay me a cent." Do you know how insane that sounds? Not just unfair and ironic and narcissistic, but insane...
My h is now 60. After 38 years of working on his career
very hard, usually by putting our family/marriage on the back burner and only once thanking me for that (which I recall clearly, b/c it was literally only one time)
he now SAYS he is "retired" so he can avoid paying me a fraction of his earnings temporarily,
which he admitted openly to our s31, (because I guess h does not know how he sounds...)
and which is false anyhow, btw, and provable....
But even if it were true, that's crazy for H in the long run, financially and relationally AND it's just great timing.
Oh, so now our kids are all grown and out of the house (I raised them, you're welcome) and
they have little to no contact with him. H's choice.
Let ^^that sink in...
also, my h is not doing unheard of things, btw, & neither is your h.
Evidently, in my h's eyes, truly, HE is the hero and I am the villain. Sound familiar?
Please stop taking ANY blame for your h's choice to lie. Work on you b/c you want to, do not do or say anymore to appease him or feed his delusions.
When you say you are "willing to own" your part, he hears you agreeing with him. YOU are the problem, not him!! You said so!
Yes it is absolutely delusional. But that does not mean your h will see that and return, slapping his forehead saying he "gets it now!" It means your h is delusional.
When your h says he is tired of being told he "should" do this or that (i.e. "the right thing", "man up", "be an adult" "don't lie", "don't cheat", "don't leave your wife and 3 sons" types of things) you need to ask yourself
do you want to live with a man who needs to be told ^^^these things? And resents it?
What a whiny baby.
My H seems to have a new family on the tundra, which he's inserted into. So maybe he will invest himself in OW's family and I'll have to chalk that up to "guess he learned a lesson" and isn't the same old absentee taker.
Yes I have to just eat that $h1t cake and so do my kids.
That bothers me of course. But What are my options? S31 says his "dad is gone/dead" and while that makes me sad, it's kind of worse that s31 saw it before I did.
Legally, I say "b1tch betta gimme my money", which is one of my fav new mantras
and I am trying to embrace the reality that I do not have to keep dancing to get h to "feel content" with wherever he is in life, to appease the endless restlessness or deflect from his passive aggressive remarks.
H is not my problem anymore. If I had chosen to move to Alaska, again, my life would $uck. It $ucks less now and it improves the more I detach from him and seek out my own life. I feel a sense of urgency to LIVE MY LIFE now. No more limbo or being stuck "waiting" for h to make us the priority.
If we had remained married as he is now and has been for the past X years, I'd always have those "itchy sweater" feelings that YOU have had, and not quite be able to put a finger on why...
While H was the priority in our family (not proud of that, but it's true) WE were only an option for h.If I were in your shoes, I'd get my $$$ together and move forward with as PMA as possible.
The happier you are (or pretend to be!!) the more vindication you will feel and at the moment, that probably seems important. You do not want to fuel your h's image of the "always sad unsatisfied w". Even when totally justified, don't feed it.
FYI I think I'm nearly detached AND yet I very much want vindication!! I very often fake it till I make it.
So Sorry you are still going through this, and I hope you will move forward now.
((( )))
ps
make sure his life insurance/family health insurance premiums are paid up.
H canceled the one I bought when h was deployed. I had been paying for it and had been the whole time. It cost him nothing to have it.
Why?
Just b/c I guess...
T,
Have you seen those old Charlie Brown clips where whenever the adults talk there is only a trumpet sound? "Whaaaaah waaah whaaaahhhh!!!!" That is all I hear when your H starts talking. I mean really, he is not saying anything 1. new, or 2. of any substance. I wish there was a way you could remove his platform for this? "waaah, T I'm done, wahhh waaaahhhh wwaaahhhh." I mean, I could barely focus on the words you typed because it's all apart of the same. I wonder if the more he says these things, the more he convinces himself? Or anyone?
I doubt it. What I do know is the script sounds so much like everything he has already been saying AND a lot like the other waywards on this board. In fact, when my H left he said a lot of the same, "wahhh whaaah waaaaaaaahhhhhhh." It broke my heart because it hurts to hear it and it hurt over again each time! I should not have allowed so much of that. I let him hurt me by listening to that BS. I am no ones emotional punching bag nor to be blamed for his own unhappiness.
The thing is, part of dropping the rope includes removing the platform. I mean of course you are not going to initiate any R talk (don't do that), but what about when he starts up? How about a super quick validation and then an escape method? I mean who has time for all this anyhow??? You have far more important things that deserve your attention right now. You have 3 kiddos, school, and your own GAL!
Here, let's practice, T:
(ring ring)
H: T, we need to talk. Waaahhhh whhaaah wah.
T: I hear you. I am sorry you feel that way.
H: Wah wah
T: I think I understand what you mean. I have been listening to this for several months. This is difficult.
H: Waaaaahhhhhhhhh
T: H, I do hear you. I am sorry you see things that way. This isn't a good time for me right now. I am not going to agree to that now. I also need to go because I am taking the boys to GAL. I also could use more time to think and process all of this. Please reply to my email regarding a clear and consistent schedule for the boys. That is the most important thing right now. Good Bye H.
(hang up or leave house or just EXIT convo)
Thoughts?
Blu
Have you seen those old Charlie Brown clips where whenever the adults talk there is only a trumpet sound? "Whaaaaah waaah whaaaahhhh!!!!" That is all I hear when your H starts talking.
O.M.G. I kid you not: this is EXACTLY what popped into my head when I read the paragraph of his "he saids"!!!!!! All I kept thinking was: STOP validating him, T! Stop with the 'I'm-sorry-you-feel-that-way' crap! Just hold up your hand and make the motion like someone talking and look at H and said: "Dude. I see you talking, but all I hear is wahhhwahhwahh." I mean SERIOUSLY. Tell him you've heard it all before! Like, just a couple weeks ago. It's time he sh!ts or gets off the freaking pot. Buh-bye. Bye, Felicia. Won't leave the lights on for ya.
Sheesh. Talk about grand pronouncements.
T, I'd honestly stop questioning everything you're saying or not saying. Stop DBing. OR attempting to. Start back at the beginning.
And as an aside, do what you want about mentioning that you know about OW when you know H is texting her inside the family home. But I made it very clear to my H that that was not going to happen in front of me and my children in our marital home. And believe it or not, H stopped texting her while he was here. (Of course, I had smashed his phone with a meat tenderizer when I first found out about OW, so he knew I meant business. New, shiny phone be d@mned!)
Hang in there, lil mama.
PS You KILLED this weekend! Pat yourself on the back for me. Fist bumps and woman power and all that jazz. You're Wonder Woman, and I want to be YOU when I grow up! Go, T!!!!!
ps
**I wish I had said "BRAVO" for the weekend victory at the soccer event.
So WELL DONE. Truly. It's By far better than I could have pulled off with 3 kids, ever. Let alone with a newborn. I mean it.
What else are you doing - along with your school, and work, taking care of the kids & the insanity of your DB/h?? So Are you *finally* writing that great novel or learning to speak Chinese? (Come on, T3, you're making the rest of look bad!)
And as for the he said/what you said
yeah, it's all wahhhhh
wahhhh I'm Not happy YET/AGAIN/EVER/YOU'RE THE OBSTACLE TO MY JOY" from him.
+ a few more "sorry for MY parts" from you, (which he hears as your admission that his choices are okay...)
FTR I'm not sure I could say "sorry you feel that way" again, with a straight face.
I might play it on a tape you have already made on your phone, while you are on your way out the door to GAL
or a sign you can hold up when he begins to blather on...and you have things to do.
You know, Multi task...
Haha thank you ladies,
What's really funny is after I wrote that and submitted it I was annoyed just re reading it. I felt like why. Did I just waste my time and theirs reading this GARBAGE and even more so why did I engage in this conversation for as long as I did.
I will say this though he started saying you know your dad and I talked and he said everything would be fine we would all be grown adults and do things for the boys but it's pretty odd he had it made in his mind I had someone else. I can only imagine how you're telling everyone that even though you haven't mentioned it in in awhile.
I said H -- that is not how life is going to be and I know for a fact that's not what my dad said. He was being nice as was I because we were both hoping you would get your sh!t together and that this was just a little mini freak out you were having. I also said you know why my dad says you have someone else it's not because of me. He said it's because he's a man and what HUSBAND AND FATHER would leave a Newborn? I said there is absolutely no excuse. It's not like I'm a drug addict, a cheater, or like my dad said I don't have the whole squad of the Harlem globe trotters lined up LOL so really there is no excuse for what you're doing.
But ya like I said... I read that post and was annoyed with myself. Story of my life. I definitely feel better. I don't know why I felt the need to validate because I guess I'm just further fueling his fire. I happily took his money last night while he had his sourpuss on and said thanks with a big smile and went out the door.
So ya moral of the story is I will do more of STFU less talk more action.
Plus as you all know he's making more than enough to cover our expenses. I have the login to his payroll account ... I mean really with everything I know, if he knew , he would have a heart attack. I just haven't shown ANY of my cards, yet
Which is why I haven't mentioned OW and the texting. I'm going to let it simmer for a bit because I don't want to do it out of emotion. Plus he can continue to dig himself a deeper hole.
And 25 I'm protecting myself as best I can with fair legal advice. That's the main reason I'm not showing my cards. I'm letting him think I'm as dumb as he thinks I am. I mean to this day he doesn't think I check the phone records. He really thinks I'm dumb. My dad said it's like leading the animal to the slaughter house. I can't tip him off until I have everything ready to go.
And thanks Train for the kind words. I felt great this weekend. I did have a small cry yesterday but it was short and I was alone. The crying is spacing out to every few days and not asking very long which is a huge improvement haha.
I did remind him To not feel he's needed at the house. He was more than welcome to come by see the boys and be on his way. Let's see if he follows my advice this week.
What a huge leap forward you've taken! I loved hearing that you were annoyed with yourself reading back how that conversation went. Sometimes we just need to step outside of ourselves to change our attitudes.
You're on your way now, T. Way to go!!!!
BTW, it's still ok to grieve. Just don't let it get in the way of your happiness.
Have you seen those old Charlie Brown clips where whenever the adults talk there is only a trumpet sound? "Whaaaaah waaah whaaaahhhh!!!!" That is all I hear when your H starts talking.
O.M.G. I kid you not: this is EXACTLY what popped into my head when I read the paragraph of his "he saids"!!!!!! All I kept thinking was: STOP validating him, T! Stop with the 'I'm-sorry-you-feel-that-way' crap! Just hold up your hand and make the motion like someone talking and look at H and said: "Dude. I see you talking, but all I hear is wahhhwahhwahh." I mean SERIOUSLY. Tell him you've heard it all before! Like, just a couple weeks ago. It's time he sh!ts or gets off the freaking pot. Buh-bye. Bye, Felicia. Won't leave the lights on for ya.
Sheesh. Talk about grand pronouncements.
I have been giggling about this Charlie Brown horn all day. lol. T, even when I think back to my dark days after BD, I still have some sweet memories and good humor in the ways I coped. My BFF and I took several road trips, we would have Friday night dinners and our own crazy dance (wine) parties, and sometimes we just let ourselves laugh at what a chit-show my life was turning out to be (on the surface anyhow)! I never thought I would, but now I totally, cherish those moments and bursts of relief that I had in that time. I miss some of them actually. I hope you can create some of those for yourself now too--here on the boards and in your RL.
Whahhhh wah.
Blu
I do have a lot of good memories mixed in with the bad from last time. I remember doing a lot of kayaking with the boys and my friends and getting stuck in the rain with a shark swimming by us and feeling like we were on an episode of survivor haha.
his mom has been reaching out to my family a lot and she's in la la land. She doesn't want to acknowledge what he's doing and sends pictures of her paintings and talks about her problems to both my mom and my grandma. My grandma had a talk with her today just saying you know what he's doing. I can't watch him do this to my granddaughter and her boys a second time and talk with you about painting. His mom said her and H don't talk about it that he wants to get his own place and deserves to be happy. My grandma told her he needs guidance from his family, he needs a role model or a shoulder from his family because everyone that talks to him that he's close with is still my family at the end of the day. She said she he needs his mom and have the hard talks with him and not pretend everything is going to be okay
She said she knows she's going to lose her grandchildren in the sense of it won't be like it is now and she's going to lose all her relationships with my family and she was crying but she said she just couldn't stand up to him. She didn't want to risk upsetting him and losing her relationship with him. My grandma said she told his mom maybe his brother or dad could reach out to him. Just to have someone to listen. She said they both knew he left but don't want to get involved.
I told my grandma just to drop it. Just stop talking to her, if she texts be brief. My grandma said she told her the gloves are going to be coming off soon because I'm not going to be how I've been to him. My grandma is old school and doesn't take any nonsense. H mom was then texting my mom about her paintings etc and my mom just gave a short reply. She then started texting my dad about how her and her sister got in a fight and she was really upset and just had been saying a lot of prayers etc.
I don't know what the point of this other than his family is delusional. There is way too much cake eating going on and it's time for things to be how they're going to be... sometimes I feel like I'm being punked. Is this real life??? Haha
I'm so sick of his moods one day he wants to have dinner the next he walks by as if I'm invisible. I did tell him last night I didn't want to be with him.
I feel so stuck. Like I can't change the locks I
Can't kick him out. So I tell him not to come he still strolls in at 9pm sits on the couch on his phone all night and there's nothing I can legally do about it until I file for D and we get to an agreement on the possessions house etc. he can not pay for anything and still come here because it's his house too. The law here [censored]. It's a big [censored] sandwich.
T, even when I think back to my dark days after BD, I still have some sweet memories and good humor in the ways I coped. My BFF and I took several road trips, we would have Friday night dinners and our own crazy dance (wine) parties, and sometimes we just let ourselves laugh at what a chit-show my life was turning out to be (on the surface anyhow)! I never thought I would, but now I totally, cherish those moments and bursts of relief that I had in that time. I miss some of them actually. I hope you can create some of those for yourself now too--here on the boards and in your RL.
Yes, yes and yes. SO MUCH YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
T, I'm confused about the living arrangements. He moved out, right? To the NEW boss' house? And he's wahwahwahing to you about getting his own place?
I mean, tell him not to show up at the house. Literally SAY: "I don't WANT you here. We don't NEED you here."
You haven't tried to be that blunt yet, have you?
I was thinking you said you're afraid of being bold because he will yank finances. So which one is it? You don't want to stir the pot and pi$s him off? Or the laws are crappy there? Because those are two wildly different things.
T3
Well, yes of course we use comedy as a tool (oh I'm doing a stand up comedy set "dedicated to my stbx" soon, btw). And thank GOD!
Well, your h's family is putting the FUN back in dysFUNctional but hey,
they're NOT fun.
The mom is pathetically weak, which my MIL was too. She called ZERO times when h left me and our 2 d's back a decade ago. She'd only reach out when h was here, which is to say - reach out to HIM... Nice.
When she died, our then d21 spoke and mentioned how she didn't really know her paternal grandmother but that she "hoped" she could learn more about her even now after passing away.
I $hit you not, H and his brother were "really surprised" that my kids did not feel they knew her. What??
How would they? MIL literally never reached out and she visited us once in 22 years - so we had to go see her on the east coast (all 5 of us had to fly to her, never her flying to see us, even on our dime. Nope, she'd "have to leave her dogs". She missed our kids graduations and they were her only grandkids...).
Anyhow, yeah, h's family is not the type to say much real stuff to each other.
And his mom was, per HER childhood bff, "always weak". H's Godmother, was the only one to say "H, you're being selfish")
So yeah, my MIL was useless, and who knows what FIL said... What do you do with that?
Nothing...expect nothing useful from them.
And please don't read into his background or why he does what he does and the shortcomings of his childhood and baggage he hasn't worked out and blah blah blah
he's the father of your kids and he's failing you and the boys. Again.
Still, I do appreciate your insight about his family.
As for YOUR poor family listening to his "sad case" mama's problems, wow, OMG, geez...
THIS^^ is a new one for me here, and that is saying a lot.
Both -
The laws suck and me pissing him off will cut the finances and he can still come
Here.
Basically L said- he can stop paying and not pay child support and still come to the home and see the kids. I cannot force him to leave even IF he doesn't financially contribute. I cannot stop him from seeing thekids even if they are not fed or clothed because he won't give money he can still see them.
So if he stops paying I have to file an emergency hearing for emergency support. Emergency is a joke of a word because it takes a minimum of 90-120 days to get in front of anyone and even then t may have to go to a judge to get any type of financial order. So I risk 4 months of NO support at all. AND. He can still come here. I can change the locks but he can change them too. She said it goes both ways.
It's why I feel so STUCK. Florida is no fault. I have told him as I did last night we don't need him here. He moved out June 15 to his boss. Took his bags and went. Then started coming around twice a week to stay the night and help with the baby because of my school and I told him he needed to be in charge those two nights. Well it's now turned into being here 95% of the nights (I didn't ask) and him sitting on the couch and not offering to help. He just strolled in at 10 pm... he text me asking if I needed anything or wanted him to grab me dairy free dinner. I replied no but that he needed to get dog food. He comes in and tries to say goodnight to the boys and I told him he needed to take the baby who was crying. I told him not to come here to stay the night so if he's not going to listen then he can take the baby so I can go to sleep.
I originally didn't say anything about him coming here every night after he first left because I thought ok maybe he's making an effort toward the M and I didn't want to push him away but after last week he told me nothing has changed I realized that's not the case. So I don't know what he's doing here and why he doesn't stay at the boss house like he was. He doesn't leave even a tooth brush here or even do laundry. He brings a back pack and keeps everything in there and leaves nothing here.
I'm tired and rambling I hope what I said makes sense.
I feel damned if I do damned if I don't. I don't really mind him being here as much when he comes home at 10 because I don't have to interact with him. But it also is like this isn't a hotel and I believe he's coming here to put on this show that he's 'doing the right thing' not walking out on us that he's just done with the M but is being a father and painting the picture of how great he is to whomever he's involved himself with.
So ya I haven't been that bold ... I have said I don't need you here and you being here isn't working for me. You can come by and take the boys and we can set days up to provide consistency for the boys. But that's as far as I've gone. I've also sent texts when it's late like 9 and he's not here saying don't worry about coming by boys are sleeping.
I'll just say this:
He has the balls to tell you he doesn't like you. He doesn't look at you in the way a H should look at a W. He doesn't want to be with you. You don't make him happy. Etc etc etc.
And you're not doing one thing to keep him OUT of that house.
T, this is going to sound harsh, but it needs to be said:
It's no wonder he has no respect for you.
well,
as for being ;legally stuck, all you know is that the sooner you begin the process, the sooner you can get something in writing.
I had been hospitalized and my L said the "average time" was 90-120 days, so I expected it to go faster, but that's pretty much what it was. (Yeah, I know)...
I lived in my sisters' basement with my dog, for those 4 months, and my d's came for Christmas, sleeping on the floor.
God, I can barely think about that ^^ without wanting to either cry, feel shame, or slap my h's face off...
As for WHY your h is there, & who he is trying to impress or whatever, hey, do you want to spend your energy on that brain screw?
I seriously doubt he knows. Image management, staying connected to the boys, coping with his own guilt, who knows?
MY question is, is it helping you, or making you spin more? Answer that without thinking about what your h's reaction...
So sorry you're here...but try to step back and see the big picture.
(I know it helps me to take the long view, when I get mired in what's going on right now.)
You know *big picture*, you'll be alright, and you'll get through this. But for now, it $ucks.
I get it, I really truly do.
The challenge is to balance the need to be "in the moment" for the boys and to get through the day
and to remind yourself when you get bogged down in the crazy stuff of the day & the pain of your h there in your face but far off in his own world of """NOT knowing"""""
and a baby who needs changing and other sons who want time with you (and "where's dad???") and homework due, and money concerns and all the spinning about your h
that's when you need to literally take a slow deep breath
and remind yourself that you are in great shape.
B/c unlike 90% of the women on our planet, you will have shelter, you will have food, you & your children will have health care (no one will "draft" your sons to join their rebel army and you are in a safe neighborhood) and you will have a job you derive meaning from & you have family who care about you, around you...
Without your h, you will Not have that itchy sweater feeling around your h wondering every few years, or what the heck is happening with him... and In time, T3, you will be at peace. I just know this.
I so wish you could be at peace now.
((( )))
Yeah, the "Chats" in which he blathers on about how he does NOT care and does NOT feel how he should and does NOT want to stay and wants YOU to shoulder the blame for making him feel blah blah blah
all need to STOP.
You're his w and the mother of his children and he wants out. Okay, so go. Why not tell him to "stop whining and get the he11 out"?
Just asking
Ya because I've let him walk all over me since March. The only time I stood up to him he respected my boundary which was when he went out one night and said he wasn't going to come home and I said if you don't come home then don't ever come back here. He came home that night.
Since then he's pretty much done what he's wanted. My. Parents want me to keep things this way. They don't want me to add more stress of him not contributing financially... my dad has the kids a lot so he doesn't have the means to pick up everything H is taking care of and my mom has all her own bills.
I just don't know if I'm ready to cut off my nose to spite my face. My dad said H is never coming back. He's done with me. He's checked out and he's never coming back. And my dad knows him... so if that's the case why risk putting financial stress on myself and instead let him pay so I can continue focusing on the kids and school.
I don't know ... I said talking with a friend I don't know what to do. I don't want a divorce but I don't want him the way he is. I don't see anything changing and I see me getting a D. So if this is what it's going to be and he's taken so much from me already why put more stress on myself of having to work more hours to get by ?
I'm sure that makes me sound weak. It's not that I don't want to piss him off in fear of hurting my chances with him. It's that I don't want to piss him off to put financial stress on myself. I have enough going on in my life I cannot afford to rid my schooling or my boys happiness and I know me losing his financial contributions would take me away from my school because I would have to work and it would take me away from the kids. I just feel like I'm in a no win situation.
I am NOT this person to be this way living like this. Last time I worked two jobs and did it on my own. But I wasn't in school full time and I didn't have a new baby. I don't want to be gone 5-6 days a weeek and miss out on this time that I will never get back. It [censored]. I don't know what is the right decision. I really don't have the 5k retainer right now
Hey 25 sorry I missed your posts
I just bring up his family etc as well venting and insight but at the end of the day H is a big boy and capable of being his own man. Many people are dealt shitty hands and still don't walk down the path they witnessed in their childhood. It's a decision he has made. He was given so much here with my family. He had nothing when he met me... which infuriates my parents even more. Yes he's a hard worker but the home we own, all of our assets, everything all started as gifts from my parents. Eh anyway enough of that.
I'm so tired of talking about X Y Z. I get sick just reading what I'm writing. I go back and wish the edit button was there so I could delete half of the things I say. It's disgusting. I'm pining away for a man that threw me away with our newborn. What does that say about me? I don't like who I am right now. I don't like that I've become so weak. I don't like that I'm dependent financially on a man. He acts this way because he feels entitled and he feels like he holds all the cards.
You know I applied for grad school during last BD because of BD. I never wanted to rely on a man financially. We were back together before school started and I went because I wanted to protect myself if anything happened again. I didn't have to go back but boy am I glad I did.
But ya I'm doing a lot of thinking of why am I this way. Why I let a man say such hurtful things and don't stand up for myself. I just don't know what the hell is wrong with me. Who knows.
I'm listening to my baby scream out there... I made H take him. I hate this. I hate hearing him upset. I know if I take him he will go right to sleep. This isn't for the faint of heart. I wouldn't wish this on my own worst enemy... eh well maybe I would on H haha
T:
You are in a catch 22 that is not going to improve with time.
At any point in this process he could stop paying for things and disappear.
No matter from which point you start it will take 90-120 days, so why are you waiting.
He is NOT going to get nicer and more cooperative the longer this goes on.
When you have a job and income you will get less in support. Yes he can seek to modify later, but that takes time and money.
You can put on your charm and give him the choice, does he want to come to an agreement (which you can present to the court) or does he want to battle in court. That you are just taking this step to protect everyone and to make things clear to cut out the potential for conflict between the two of you.
I also live in a no fault state (as do most folks these days). My H is the only one on the note and we are both on the deed. I told him to leave. He said he wasn't leaving and it was his house, blah, blah, blah. I told him I would get a kick out order to have him removed. He ran out of the house like a scared chicken saying he had to work an overnight shift (which he had never done before). I drove to her house, took pictures of his car outside. They saw the flash and I saw them inside. He had blocked my phone so I emailed him and told him to come out. When he did I told him I wanted the key and garage remote (he had already shown up once in the house when we were out claiming he wanted to start over).
My point, there is law and then there is reality. If you tell him to get the h*ll out and don't come back, he will probably do it. First try to be charming and get him to agree to pay you a specific amount of support and agree on certain visitation (FL probably has a standard for the non-custodial parent). If you have a contract he will be less likely not to pay in the 90-120 day period and that hearing should be cheaper and easier because of the agreement.
I think you are afraid of pushing him further away. Too late for that. Train's tough love approach will serve you better than being nice or weak at this point.
The only thing I have going for me now is that my H is scared to death of me (and I set the mortgage to pay after he gets paid--no money in my account and I don't pay it--guess who takes the credit hit).
T, you're not "like" anything. You are a new mom who had perfectly reasonable (and admirable) goals and expectations. And your H pulled the rug right out from under you. So the very FIRST thing you can do to start getting back to YOU is to realize that this current person is NOT you. And she is also *not your fault*.
The only thing standing between "this" you and the real you is fear. It's literally in every sentence you write. And - holy crap! - can we all understand why!!!
Here's the rub: that which we resist persists. The more you fear your H leaving and yanking finances, the more that fear will hang around and scare you and influence every decision you make.
I understand it well. I was crippled with fear that H would pull income, and I knew he would because he did after BD1. My L kept telling me to play nice with H, and even L thought H was a dummy for paying me so handsomely while he was in an active A and I had kicked him out of the house and changed the locks. We knew it would come to an end, but L advised me to keep squirreling it away so that once H *did* pull his income - and you better believe he did! - I'd be able to pay a couple bills. You may not remember, but I stopped paying mortgage, based on L's advice, and decided to wait in the house until we were foreclosed on and the courts/bank evicted me. And I knew I'd have at least 30 days to vacate then.
Shew. These situations blow, T. If I "stay here" too long, I, frankly, begin to remember too much, and it brings up feelings I don't want to have anymore. But my point is this: I finally had to release my fear because I finally came to the realization that at the end of the day, like OwnIt says, I had no control over if or when H was going to financially contribute. I thought I was controlling it by being nice, but I was kidding myself.
You, too, are lying to yourself if you believe that you playing nice is why H is contributing. He could stop at any time. And he's already proven he is a big enough butthole to do it. I know you don't want to tick him off because he may stop paying sooner than later, and that will throw all your plans into a tailspin, and I get that - I do. But you're doing it at the expense of your heart, confidence and spirit ... and then you're asking why you're being "this girl." You're being "this girl" because the one thing you're hanging onto is the very thing that is beating you down into her.
And, T, you're only delaying the inevitable.
I'll give you a bit of advice, but I'd be interested in others' opinions on it:
Perhaps the first thing you can try is a sit-down with H. Be cordial but firm and emotionless. Have a plan worked out and *on paper* that works for you and the boys: specifically, visitation and finances. Present it to H and tell him you truly hope that you guys can be amicable and agree on a temporary arrangement. And tell him that, after giving it more thought, you've realized that maybe he's right, after all: maybe y'all *can* be that awesome, little post-D family - mask your eyerolls when you say this, please - but to be that sweet, little post-D, picket-fence family, he'll need to put his money where his mouth is - literally - and support you and the kids until you get through school. Or at least until you have your own revised plan for school/work and are on your feet. And tell him that what you're offering is probably a helluva lot nicer than it's going to be if/when you have to hire Ls. Remind him, also, how expensive that is. I mean, lay it on THICK, sister. Make him think you're doing HIM a favor. And, I mean, since he wants away from you sooooooo bad .... and since he's sooooooo "done" every other day ...... then surely he will welcome you releasing him to his own whims and fancies while you hold down every ounce of responsibility in the home and family you both created?
And, T, we all hear you loud and clear: it stinks, and nobody wants the kind of responsibility you are shouldering right now. I remember being a single mom of just two young girls when I was working FT and in college FT. It's hard. But, T, it *can* be done. You *can* do it. I know you don't want to. But you CAN. And you will CRUSH it. And you will realize that you're capable of things you never knew you could do. And you will be so proud of yourself. And then you will be the real T, and you won't ever again let your H or ANY man get away with treating you this way.
I promise you have it in you. Just release him. Release your fear. Embrace this new reality. Talk to your professors. Talk to people at work. Talk to your family. Talk to friends. Where there's a will, there's a way!
***
Question: pretend for a moment your H has already left, and he has stopped paying you or is paying you a less-than-manageable amount. Detail for us here what your plan of action would be. What would you have to do to stay in school, pay your bills and manage your family? What are some creative ways you could possibly juggle all three things?
You really think he is the kind of guy who will cut off finances to you and his 3 kids, including his newborn baby?
Sorry to be blunt, then you better open up an account, put your some of your joint money in it, and walk, don't run.
I am sorry, I know you want to save this M, but you need to save yourself and your kids first.
You are NOT weak. What you are experiencing is love for someone else but it does appear as if Train's advice might be your best option at this time.
But it [censored]. If I was in your position I would do what Train said. I may be in that same situation but I seem to be getting more positive interactions (not just words, but actions) from W. You are dealing with a lot of open disrespect towards you and while you may have fear and hurt at the end of the day you may be better off doing what Train said and MAYBE H will recognize he is being an [censored] and try to be better (at which point you of course need to wait and see him being better on a consistent basis)
On a different level: I work on a college campus. If you end up in a very negative financial situation a lot of universities waive tuition for homeless students and have other accommodations for financial hardship. As a professor myself if the texts are too expensive come talk to us. We often have an extra copy or will get it for you. There may be extensions on assignments. Not all of us will work with you but a lot of us understand these situations. In fact, ironically I have helped a ton of female students get out of abusive and hostile relationships by accommodating their schedule. I say ironically, because turns out I was not an ideal H either.
But please whatever happens don't sell your own dream short in pursuing that degree. That is something you work hard for and will have earned. (And here is where I get sad because I recognize I didn't tell my own W this about her dreams of pursuing a PhD and focusing too much on making the financial picture work. I thought she can do it later.)
Just some other things to think about -
1. Can you plan for a worst case scenario if H does cut off support? Visit your bank and find out if you qualify for a loan of some sort. It sounds like it's just a matter of time until you have a well-paying job, so the security of knowing there is a source of funds to carry you through if you need it might help you be less fearful. You may also be able to get a loan for retaining an attorney. Another place to query is women's organizations in your area. I do think that H is emotionally abusive (and potentially financially abusive) to you, and with a newborn and your schooling, I'm wondering if there may be some funding or legal help for you through organizations that assist women in tough situations.
2. I don't agree with your parents that you should be twisting yourself in knots and putting up with whatever H wants to throw your way in order to have him not yank support. I feel like it's torturous for you, because you aren't able to make empowered decisions. It is a matter of time until you don't have to worry about finances, so you just need a stop gap in order to not have to rely on keeping H happy with you.
3. On H's end, there may be more to his coming home late and sleeping there. Hey may be reluctant to follow through on leaving and sleeping elsewhere due to what that would mean for custody. Also, I think he thinks it keeps you holding on/happy with him if he's there and not sleeping elsewhere. If H is looking to buy a home, he is likely applying for financing, and child support payments might inhibit that process. So he may be playing a game where he's "technically" home, and paying money, but as soon as he gets a place he may cut you off. What I'm certain that he doesn't want is for you to file for child support, because it's a dose of reality and may inhibit his ability to buy a home.
Really think about that last one. H also knows you have a well-paying job in your future, so it is to his benefit to drag this out and not have you file. That may be driving his behavior. I do also think there is an element of controlling you, here. If he's there every night, he knows what you're doing, he ensures that you can't exactly move on with your romantic life, and he holds onto a connection with you.
I am with OwnIt in thinking that there is zero reason for you not to start the 90-120 day process for support and custody arrangements now. I don't think playing nicely is going to get you anywhere, given that he has a history of cutting you off financially, and I think the current situation is very advantageous to him and not so much for you (outside of finances, but you can think outside of the box there so you're not relying upon his good graces.)
T, having a bit of knowledge of how you view situations, I personally think what holds you back is fear. Fear of being cut off financially, certainly, but I've addressed that in the points above. I also think you fear permanency, given your emotional thinking regarding H purchasing a home (how he was really "done" if he did that.) If you file for support, then it's permanent and you and H are divorcing and that's it. In reality with only logical thinking, that's not necessarily so. It means you would not be shielding H from the direct consequences of his decisions, which is perhaps the best thing for him to start re-thinking his choices. The best thing about it is that you'd be showing via your actions that you accept his decision and aren't trying to control him: you're letting him go, just like he wanted.
You really think he is the kind of guy who will cut off finances to you and his 3 kids, including his newborn baby?
Sorry to be blunt, then you better open up an account, put your some of your joint money in it, and walk, don't run.
I am sorry, I know you want to save this M, but you need to save yourself and your kids first.
I think he did it last time. T, you are entitled to half of what's in the bank (and if I had not had seizures I would have done what I'm saying) so TAKE OUT HALF and maybe some extra for the kids -ask the L about that.
Store up funds.
He's OUT T3 and in my heart of hearts I think you are trying to figure out a way to increase the odds of him waking up and returning.
Honey, I wish I could get you to see 2 things.
1) He's so not worth it, so unreliable;
and
2) IF IF IF he has some awakening it will NOT be b/c you played nice and let him have his cake.
Just the opposite. This is a no brainer to ME, it's merely about timing
T3
the advice you are getting is consistent, from different sources and ages.
Get the money and if that means filing now, which I think it does, then file.
He can wake up and smell the diapers LATER.
Now it's survival mode and he's NOT your life line. He has a plan, which Cadence points out well. So now you need one.
What I'm certain that he doesn't want is for you to file for child support, because it's a dose of reality and may inhibit his ability to buy a home. Really think about that ....
Yes. Please really think about that.
He can wake up and smell the diapers LATER.
LOL! YES!
These folks are on the money, T. (No pun intended.) And here's the thing: whether your H is going to start questioning his choices and reconsider his decisions or you are going to begin naturally moving on and feeling better, the way you will get there is *EXACTLY THE SAME*. You can stay where you are and twist and spin. But if that's what you decide to do, then your H isn't going to budge ... he's likely just going to get worse ... and you will continue holding yourself and your happiness hostage.
Your H is not paying any consequences for his poor choices. You are already paying the most painful consequences for his choices. You're learning to live with that pain, and it isn't as bad as it used to be. The only real card H has left is the financial one. YOU are holding all the cards after that, T.
That's why I compare, I know the outcome is the same but it makes me worry he's not a wayward and there's no fog it's just that he has stopped loving me and wants to be amicable.
Would you respond differently, if you knew the latter was the case?
or if the "fog" means he doesn't want to look like the villain?
What if he has some (limited) insight & concern about how others might see him, and thus must do image management...
and or has internally justified poor behavior before, so he's moving along that "struggle" much faster, to arrive at the place where YOU gave him NO CHOICE...?
What if what you are interpreting as confusion on his end, is not confusion so much as implementing a plan that requires a bit of social finesse to avoid looking bad in other's sight...
Would that change anything?
You're not really hearing his words to you b/c they are too painful. And so unkind, yet he feels the need to repeat them.
You tell yourself to believe nothing they say and only half of what they do..
but sometimes that advice just dulls the pain and slows the reaction time.
'Protect yourself asap. Trust your gut.
Hi Train-- Yes I am in fear. Fear of losing financial support, fear of missing out on my kids lives, fear of missing out on the baby, fear of being away from them, fear of H never being my H again, the list goes on.
I just feel like this time the advice is semi different. I felt like you guys had hope that things would turn around this time that's not the case. I think that makes me more crappy feeling. More wanting to run in the other direction in my mind.
My plan was actually I'm taking out a large student loan. To have the money as a back up for L and bills. I am not telling H this and will not use the money unless absolutely necessary but it will give me some breathing room and I'll be able to focus on the boys and school. It won't be enough to float everything for more than a couple
Months but it will bat least get me through that time. Also if worse comes to worse I'll stop paying the house. Not something I want to do to hurt my credit but if that's what I have to do I will.
I'm not sure if I believe me being nice is why he's paying but I thin me being a bitch will push him to not pay. His mood is just that. His mood. One day he's nice bringing me Fiji water from the store asking to have dinner. The next he can't even look at me and MY mood and my behavior is consistently the same it's his that changes on a daily basis.
So my main fear - me pushing all this permanent stuff means we are done. FOREVER. My feat is he's. It wayward and he just truly doesn't love me and doesn't want to be with me ever. That he sees me so horribly that he can't bear to be with me and would rather not see his kids everyday than be here with me. Thathe cant see that things won't or aren't the way he says they are (me living in the past, thinking he's a cheater, that he will never change etc etc).
I get into this mode every time after I talk to a L because I see this terrible road I'm about to go down and I want to take a UTurn. It's about to get really ugly once this legal road starts not that it's not ugly now but a whole new type of ugly trucking my boys between two homes etc. right now they get to be in their home every night and that's what they want.
Ugh the L I am meeting with next week is 1000 just for a consultation eeek! I may be canceling that because I thought it went toward the 5000 retainer but it doesn't. I used some quick calculators online of what H might have to pay for child support and if we split close to 50/50 he will have to pay me what he's paying now (per the calculator) and if he does like 30/70 he would have to pay me double what he's contributing now. That doesn't include alimony, etc. my dad said it's going to be a huge wake up call because he is so delusional he thinks he's going to go live this great life making all this money now and just be rid of me.
And I'm not sure I could tell him we will be a great happy family after this. He knows I don't believe that... I'm just not sure that would even be worth saying because I believe he will see through what I'm saying.
Oh geez I didn't even realize there was a second page when I just replied to Trains post, thank you everyone!
Ginger- we have kept separate accounts since last BD, we have a joint account we use for bills but we both just put money in there as needed.
Hi Tobias- thanks for stopping by. Unfortunately my professors do not care, suck it up butter cup. But I will not let this stop me from graduating. I have 5 months left! I wish more professors were as understanding as you.
Cadence and 25 - yes he did that last time but I have a separate account and he makes all the money now anyway and pays majority of all household bills so that's it an issue. Fortunately and unfortunately.
I acknowledged the fear in my previous post to train and what you said Cadence is unfortunately spot on. I fear the permanence. I think I look at last time and just think can't you stop this before it gets too far and it's forever and I can't ever forgive you. Before you do so much damage you won't or can't come back. Besides the financial fear. That's the other fear.
And 25 he's not worth it right now but he was .. the other man was.
Ugh. I am getting there you guys. .. I know I suck at this. I feel like a kid at toys r us kicking and screaming being drug out of the store.
AFTER doing what's best for the kids my concern is what's going to save my M. I need to get out of that mindset. I feel like I'm getting there and getting better and closer toward it then something happens (talking to L was the case today) and I'm back worrying about how to get H to wake up.
I feel like everyone here doesn't think he will ever wake up. It stings. I know the truth stings.
I am not going to file for D as of this moment. But I am going to file for financial and custody support. If it is recommended by the next L I meet with. I'm trying to get as many opinions and insight as possible.
Sandi- if I knew the latter was the case That he just doesn't love me I would probably not have hung on like I am just hoping he was in a fog and that was the reason for his behavior and words and that there was HOPE he might come out of it.
Hope this all makes sense. I've had a terrible migraine since yesterday and am just getting home from school. Going to bed early tonight if the baby lets me.
I just feel like this time the advice is semi different. I felt like you guys had hope that things would turn around this time that's not the case. I think that makes me more crappy feeling. More wanting to run in the other direction in my mind.
The advice is semi-different. As Sandi2 so eloquently discussed, this is a WH, not a WAH. He's resentful and blames you for his unhappiness. And I think of most of us sense that if your H is to come around, it will take time.
The advice you are getting is about you now. An H who does not respect you and thinks you are trying to control him needs to see a shift, where you are no longer a doormat and that you care for yourself more than you care about keeping him happy with you. Why? Because those are the actions of a woman who knows her worth, T, and that's what we're trying to get across to you.
T, you have significant abandonment fears that are making this so incredibly painful for you. It's a painful situation in general, but you are putting yourself in a constant spin cycle because you're trying to see "what it all means", usually with you speculating with some statements that indicate that you think H defines your value or your worth. That's entirely unnecessary and very untrue, T.
The advice you are getting is different simply because it adapts to what is happening in real time. Not because anyone is saying anything about the chances of this working out longer term.
I fear the permanence. I think I look at last time and just think can't you stop this before it gets too far and it's forever and I can't ever forgive you. Before you do so much damage you won't or can't come back. Besides the financial fear. That's the other fear.
Here's that abandonment fear in action.
You have no control over another person, T. You can't "stop this" because it involved another person; thinking that you can is leading you to allow boundaries to be crossed.
There is no forever, T. You are on a site with so many stories. However, those who do have successful Rs with WH/WWs have one thing in common: they accepted that their S wanted to go and they opened up the door and let them do that. They did it in a way that showed the wayward that they knew their worth. Those that didn't get to the point of the S physically leaving all had elements of the WH/WW experiencing consequences and learning what they were going to lose. And the R that last involve piecing, and a LBS that GAL, and didn't let the wayward back easily.
All of the advice you're getting adhere to the themes in the above paragraph. We're still trying to do what is best for you and give this the best shot of it turning around, but we're all pretty clear that the answer - if there is one - is about you setting boundaries and realizing your worth.
It's about facing your fears and dropping the rope. And those things also happen to set you up for a happy life without H, should he not have an epiphany down the road.
No one's given up T, and things that look permanent and scary to you aren't necessarily that. You've got numerous women posting in this very thread who are proof to the contrary.
Do not pay $1,000 for a consultation. I am in a specialty area of the law where salaries are much higher than family law. I do not ever charge a consultation fee. It is the opportunity for the lawyer and the client to see if the fit is right.
no one charges that much for a CONSULT fee and they sure as heck would use it toward the retainer.
Insane and unacceptable so there, you have 2 L's saying it's time to keep shopping for another L.
I spoke to 2 for free (not that long, less than or 1/2 an hour)
and I paid one $125 for a phone call of about 30 minutes (a father's rights guy who annoyed me a lot, and
finally, I paid $300 for an hour consult in which I had most of my more technical legal questions answered, and he was the senior partner.
That's who I hired, though it's his senior associate handling the case (I have the choice to use the senior partner, but that costs more. They do confer so in a way I get 2 opinions for less than If I'd paid them both...or so I think).
Again - keep shopping
[quote=T384]Oh geez I didn't even realize there was a second page when I just replied to Trains post, thank you everyone!
Ginger- we have kept separate accounts since last BD, we have a joint account we use for bills but we both just put money in there as needed.
I acknowledged the fear in my previous post to train and what you said Cadence is unfortunately spot on. I fear the permanence.
I think I look at last time and just think can't you stop this before it gets too far and it's forever and I can't ever forgive you. Before you do so much damage you won't or can't come back.
if that^^^ "too much damage" has not already happened (and I think your fears prevent you from seeing the full extent of the wounds, - see Blu's thread sometime -)
you somehow think that scrambling to keep him & "save the m" and not dropping the rope, helps you or the m cause.
And I DO NOT GET THAT^^^. Dropping the rope helps you more than anything you have done, to save the m OR to leave it & move forward.
The movie Swingers has a part you should read
Check this out
From Swingers the Movie
Mike:
Okay, so what if I don't want to give up on her?
Rob:
You don't call.
Mike:
But you said I don't call if I wanted to give up on her.
Rob:
Right.
Mike:
So I don't call either way?
Rob:
Right.
Mike:
So what's the difference?
Rob:
There is no difference right now. See, Mike, the only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. But you can't do anything to make her want to come back. In fact, you can only do stuff to make her not want to come back.
Mike:
So the only difference is if I forget about her or just pretend to forget about her?
Rob:
Right.
Mike:
Well that [censored].
Rob:
Yeah, it [censored].
Mike:
So it's just like a retroactive decision, then? I mean I could, like, forget about her and then when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her?
Rob:
Right. Although probably more likely the opposite.
Mike:
What do you mean?
Rob:
I mean at first you're going to pretend to forget about her, you'll not call her, I don't know, whatever... but then eventually, you really will forget about her.
Mike:
Well what if she comes back first?
Rob:
Mmmm... see, that's the thing, is somehow they know not to come back until you really forget.
Mike:
There's the rub.
Rob:
There's the rub.
T3
start hearing us, or your head will hurt from beating it against the wall.
I mean that as kindly as i can.
you have so much fear, you won't let go and you are in your own way
I hear you guys ... do you not think to him it looks like I'm letting go??
I don't call or text. If he texts about kids I respond. He got packages delivered I didnt bother sending him a text they were here. He comes in the house doesn't acknowledge me only asks a question about the baby I answer and say nothing more. No goodnight etc. I don't ask about his day where he is who he's with why he's coming in here at 10pm etc etc. that's a big change from what it had been.
I know I still have A lot To do and my words here and my feelings I know I haven't dropped the rope but posting here saves me from doing things IRL...
Short of making a schedule and getting the ball rolling on legal aspects in regard to H I don't think there's much more behavior I can change from an outside perspective. Now it's what's in my head I really have to work on.
Okay I apologize in advance for saying something that in the short term, will hurt. But hand to God, I think you need to hear this...
Yes you are getting different advice than last time from some of us. Especially the vets who have had some experience with recons, recons that fail, lousy piecing, but who all support trying to save marriages.
But this is the 2nd time around. AND you have a new baby, a new home, you're in school and your h's timing could not be worse. Oh and He began this crap During a pregnancy...
and the suckdom of that ^^^reality is so heavy, so surreal, you don't think you can wrap your brain around it...you don't think your heart can take this blow, so you resist mightily. So much fear...I'm deeply sorry.
But yeah, the advice you are getting is going to be different than last time b/c there was a last time, and
it's like you want to skim over that^^ cruel reality. Which I totally understand...
Then you ask us questions as if this is the first time he's ever been absent or nasty or dishonest.
Or you ask us why we don't think he'll wake up, or regret it, or if he's gone too far or why we don't speak with more hope, or why he does not act X way or why isn't he doing what he did LAST TIME....
For me It's partly b/c it's not the first time...
That's a big factor in the advice given. And you are not hearing it b/c, of course, it's so ugly and painful. Been there, done that. It is truly horrific, and I think I've got some PTSD from it, truly. I pity the first guy I date...I'll apologize in advance to him!
I just think you are prolonging the agony, And not protecting yourself enough.
Finally
whatever actual chance exists of your h smacking his forehead with massive realizations
and saying "OMG!! I'm making the (2nd) biggest mistake of my life and I'm going to lose my kids and T3 and my self respect and blow up a family for nothing!!! I've deeply hurt the 4 people who loved me the most!
Geez, I better overcome this -and change my mindset, & my mood weirdness, & my behaviors - oh those - and I commit to doing a TON of work on ME, over a LOT of time to prove and earn my wife's trust back, never whining about how long it takes, and I need/want/will work to be a great, consistent present h and dad..."'
is NOT MORE likely b/c you won't move forward in your life or show him what he's losing.
Change ^^that. I know you can.
But I don't have other ways to say this. I'm rooting for you.
((( )))
I hear you guys ... do you not think to him it looks like I'm letting go??
well, not internally at least. Based on questions about whether he'll come back and how you cannot believe he'd do this again, where's the hope? How do I react to him or what to say if he says 'hello', "what if he does not text/come home/calls OW in the house/texts/rides his bike/lies about X", etc etc.
I don't call or text. If he texts about kids I respond. He got packages delivered I didnt bother sending him a text they were here. He comes in the house doesn't acknowledge me only asks a question about the baby I answer and say nothing more. No goodnight etc. I don't ask about his day where he is who he's with why he's coming in here at 10pm etc etc. that's a big change from what it had been.
This is all good^^^^. Just Make sure you keep at it, please
I know I still have A lot To do and my words here and my feelings I know I haven't dropped the rope but posting here saves me from doing things IRL...
understood
Short of making a schedule and getting the ball rolling on legal aspects in regard to H I don't think there's much more behavior I can change from an outside perspective. Now it's what's in my head I really have to work on.
yes it is. You will get there. FWIW, I also truly believe that "where the head goes, the heart will follow"
let that happen.
You will be alright down the road. I don't know how long that road is but I do think you can control more of this than you realize.
Hang in there!
I just feel like this time the advice is semi different. I felt like you guys had hope that things would turn around this time that's not the case.
The advice is different because the circumstances are different. Your attitude and outlook are different. You are a new mom. Your spirit is, frankly, very weak right now. You are beaten down. You are showing signs of being exhausted and emotional. (UNDERSTANDABLY SO!) It's not that our advice is different per se. You are just in a different place with your M, and we are giving you the advice you need to hear for now. We are not telling you there's no hope. We are telling you that the *only way there's hope* is if you do what we're advising. And that involves a big, healthy dose of tough love from you to your H ... and from us to you.
So my main fear - me pushing all this permanent stuff means we are done. FOREVER.
How 'bout I'm not even going to dignify that ridiculous comment with a response? Because cadence has only been over this with you a dozen times. I swear if I read "done" or "forever" in your threads one more time, I'm going to snap. Please stop with that nonsense.
That he sees me so horribly that he can't bear to be with me and would rather not see his kids everyday than be here with me. Thathe cant see that things won't or aren't the way he says they are (me living in the past, thinking he's a cheater, that he will never change etc etc).
Channeling Blu: WahWahWahhhhWahhhhWahWah
It's about to get really ugly once this legal road starts not that it's not ugly now but a whole new type of ugly trucking my boys between two homes etc. right now they get to be in their home every night and that's what they want.
Yeah. You're right: it already IS really ugly. Your H is buying flowers for other women on Valentine's Day. He's shaving his manhood. He's buying a motorcycle. He's deciding what he's going to sell - NOT THE MOTORCYCLE! - to fund his life without you. He wanted to work instead of attend the birth of his son. He tells you to your face that you're nothing to him anymore. He is having packages for another woman delivered to your door. He's sleeping while you handle y'all's three boys AND your school/work load.
Please drop the fear about splitting the kids. It just doesn't often come to fruition the way we fear. Once the dust settles, even among divorced partners, things usually end up being better than you imagine. Just trust me on that.
And I'm not sure I could tell him we will be a great happy family after this. He knows I don't believe that... I'm just not sure that would even be worth saying because I believe he will see through what I'm saying.
It's clear you didn't pick up on my approval that you say this to H with sarcasm in your voice. (Just mask the actual physical eyerolls.)
T,
I don't think for one second he thinks you are dropping the rope. If you want to scare the living sh*t out of him and do something positive for yourself, don't say one word to him and go file for custody and support. That will send the message loud and clear. When he freaks out and comes to you, smile and tell him that you are happy to work out an agreement to save you all money on lawyer fees now that there are two households to pay for. Doing that might stop his house purchase in its tracks, but if I understand correctly you wouldn't be crying salty tears about that.
My best friend is the head of the family law section for the FL bar. Give me some area where you are located and I'll see if I can get some lawyer recs for you.
Hi Cadence - sorry I missed your post last night,
Yes, he believes it is ME that has caused all of this. That he came back, tried his best, and it still wasn’t good enough for me. That when I found out about the flowers, his answer wasn’t good enough. That we had to discuss it for an hour and it still wasn’t good enough. When in reality, as the C told him, he didn’t reassure me in the way I needed to. And instead of showing me after our conversation he didn’t mean anything by it, his behavior became more strange and questionable, that he wasn’t doing anything to earn my trust. H’s defense was what the hell do I do? I go to work and come home, when do I have time for anything else. I don’t need another woman in my life, another headache, I have enough of that already.
I don’t know why I am this way, and if I could change it, harness it, embrace it and move forward I would. C said I have PTSD component and that last time H lied to me so much that even when he answers me with the truth the first time if I don’t believe it I have to keep asking the same question because when I ask the 10th time it might be a difference answer like last BD.
But yes, I know he doesn’t respect me, if he did we wouldn’t be here in the first place. He didn’t respect me or our unborn baby enough to not BD when I was 32 weeks pregnant. I know there is no ‘forever’ but that’s how my brain sees it. I know it’s not so black and white. I mean when I say I know, my brain knows that that is the rational truth but for some reason I don’t let it sink into my situation. Trying to figure out how I can ‘know’ all of these things, when I read them they make sense and I totally agree but yet here I am…
I’ve let him go as far as his freedom, no questioning where he is, his plans, who he talks to, there really is little to no interaction. He has text me the last two nights to let me know he’s leaving work and asks if I need anything, I wait a bit and write a short no, we’re good. I’m sure he can sense, like Ownit said, that I haven’t dropped the rope because I am still letting him come here. But my dad is really on my you know what about not pushing that issue, he wants me to just leave it be, move forward, take legal action, and just let him dig his own hole. So I’m torn.
He has no consequences, yet. He wants to sell OUR boats, the boats the boys go fishing on, but not a word about his motorcycle. He’s sooooo broke, yet just had a 2500 off road suspension for his truck delivered to our house yesterday, the freight delivery alone was probably more than some of our monthly expenses. He also had his steroid injections (which is a few hundred bucks) delivered to our house too. You’d think he would at least be smart enough to have it sent elsewhere.
But anyway, yes I appreciate you all. I know I am annoying, frustrating, pathetic, all of the above. I listen to the advice I give others and just want to apply all of that to my sitch. I’ve got to get in my own head and figure out why I know this stuff, I know what I need to do, it all makes sense, yet for some reason I’m not there yet. Why can’t I make myself just do it and get there and not look back. I know it’s fear and hope, I need to get rid of both of those feelings so that they don’t drive my everyday moves.
25 – it is a VERY cruel reality. Like why am I not worth enough to not put through this again. Why can’t you respect me enough to not add to my plate of crap. Why did you have to take away from this time with our precious newborn son… blah blah blah, you guys have heard it all before.
Like you said, I know I have PTSD from it.. it truly suks.
Train – so how do I make myself feel better… I have no desire to do much of anything if I’m being completely honest, when I do things I’m forcing myself, I’m sure it will get better in time but I am so overwhelmed and inundated with school crap I don’t have time to do much of anything, TBH I shouldn’t even be posting here as much but it’s the only thing helping keep my sanity in the moment. I have gone to the gym a few times but frankly I’m exhausted, the baby is still up multiple times in the middle of the night and still has his fussy period from 11p-1a. Between going to school, doing papers, logging patients, exams, kids, soccer, house, bills, etc. I am hanging on… I am supposed to be going out with a few moms from the boy’s school (nobody knows anything) and I’m dreading going, but I’m going to make myself go tomorrow night.
Okay so no more done or forever – I can’t make promises but I will try to pay extra attention to using those words.
Ha, I know you meant lay it on THICK with the conversation, but I’m not even sure I’m in the place to even have that conversation in this moment, maybe in a few days it will be so. I am toying with filing for custody and support without having a conversation with him. What do you think about that? Does a conversation need to be had or should I just file without talking? Point being, like I told my dad, I don’t trust him and he hasn’t given me a reason to at this point. So I’m not sure his ‘word’ about a schedule and finances would mean anything and would just delay the action of getting something in writing. I also believe I’ll be met with excuses about how he cannot afford X Y Z which really isn’t my problem..
Ownit –can you email me? I would be super appreciative of some well known recommendations… I haven’t met anyone I really ‘like’ yet. I want a pit bull LOL. I am on the east coast south of Jacksonville by a couple hours. East of Orlando, if that helps?
My dad says I want him to buy a house because then it’s half mine??
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2751984#Post2751984