Hello, I just spent a good 2-3 days reading some of the threads here and play by plays of peoples situation, i was inspired to post here bcause i have found this forum to be the most accurate and most enlightening in terms of dealing with my situation. Im going to try and keep this as short as i can
So I 41M and 41F have been together for 22 years, married for 12 pre Dday
My situation I would say is a combination of WW and MLC
So towards end of covid a lot of stress between the two of us built up, wife is a nurse so she had to work ICU and I work as a driver, we both worked tons of overtime throughout covid so very stressful. Compound this with spending 8 years trying to have a family with IVF and having little to no success. 2020 we decided to use egg donor for our last shot (her suggestion), come late 2021 and early 2022 we had 3 failures from our attempts. 2022 was the year we both turned 40 so a very important year, both her and I were feeling the impact of this milestone birthday mentally and she was vocal about this. during this year or 2 because of the stress of covid, ivf and mid life, i began to drink more than was healthy, never to the point of making me sick, but it became a way to cope with the stress.
IVF had taken a toll on us mentally and physically, so in 2022 I decided to pause it and plan 2 nice trips to exotic locations, one for each of our 40th birthdays, i also made a concerted effort to plan events, get togethers and excursions throughout the year to make up for lost time with lockdowns and focus on having a family.
During this year there were a lot of fights between us, many of them started from seemingly innocuous things of little importance. it got to the point where she would be verbally and physically abusive to me. I even had to call her parents at one time to come and talk to her after i left the house, after repeatedly being punched in the face. I became confused this year as i didnt feel any of this was normal. Throughout the year she would casually refer to a male colleague at work who would bust her chops about things like sports or whatever, at the time this seemed harmless to me. Things became weird early 2022 when the wife became hypersexual with me and started suggesting threesomes, this wracked my brain because i had a moral fight with myself trying to understand why she would ask this and i didnt feel comfortable with it due to my values.
Throughout this year i started having difficulty with sexual performance, a lot of it was affected by the endless cycle of fights then makeup, it became unbearable, she began having a higher sex drive. Also throughout this year i had 2 different fractures from back and tailbone so i had to deal with a lot of pain as well for at least 3 months for each issue. we had intimacy at least 1-2 times a week, so not really a dead bedroom. During this year the W would repeatedly tell me that if i didnt give her enough attention, she would get it elsewhere, she would also repeat if you ever decide to cheat on me, leave me first. I took my vows seriously and i would never even entertain this idea, I was a very loyal and loving and respectful husband, we did everything together as a couple, i would only go out with her and rarely see friends. Even my hobbies I included her in them.
Fast forward to post 2nd trip in late october, we come back and she starts become distant with me. It became overly obvious something was going on. She started posting more solo pictures of herself online and wanting to go out with female friends, who were all single, she had one friend who was a super bad abple (proud cheater, nymphomaniac, dating a married man). My wife also confided in this woman throughout the whole year.
I started digging and going into call logs as i paid for both phones, started seeing late night phone calls to a repeated number, i called this number, it was another guy. I confronted her, she said she wasnt talking to anyone else. I didnt believe her, so i recorded conversations in her vehicle, within a week and a half i found out she had a PA from this guy from work and was having an EA with a new guy who she was speaking to at night. I kicked her out of the house and sent her to parents home.
This was the hardest time of my life, the pain i went through was unlike anything i have ever felt before.
continued in next post for brevity post DDay
So at the beginning of 2023, i allowed her back into the home, as i knew she had the right to be in the home, much of this month was arguing and me voicing my anger, i know it probably wasnt the right thing to do but i felt like i needed to confront her. We decided to go to MC, which in hindsight was a mistake. the MC would be very upfront with her and i sensed she wasnt too pleased with confronting her actions. During this month it turns out she had booked an apartment and left the house during middle of MC process, at last MC session i asked her to promise me to work on things with me and not see anyone else, she agreed. We began going on dates and wed spend time together, including Easter weekend. I was under the assumption we were trying to reconnect and she seemed to be enjoying our dates as was I. This was a big mistake on my part.
Mid March we were becoming intimate and she drops the bomb on me that i have to use protection. I was floored. It turns out the EA from late in the year had now become physical. This felt like DDay 2, after this i stopped doing the date thing and began giving her an ultimatum. I told her either we sell the home and move on or you come back and work on our marriage. Throughout this time the blame shifting and gaslighting became rediculous.
Fast forward to end of May, one of our mutual friends was passing away at the hospital, I had used the 2-3 months previous to help her get her cancer treatment, in a way it had helped me heal and cut back on the alcohol which i was turning to to heal the pain and take the memories away. At her death bed the W decided she wanted to come back and work on our marriage. I accepted her back
This weekend she told me she ended it with the AP, apparently he called her a whore and said karma was going to get her (the irony). This dude had a daughter which he saw on weekends and was paying child support for because he had cheated on his ex wife. So this guy was definitely not a model man. He was the type that knew how to say what she wanted to hear. So i assumed that during this weekend she returned she had ended it with him, she showed me the messages and told me she blocked him. as a condition of working on our marriage i made it clear i wanted to go to Marriage Counselling and we both picked one we could agree on.
2.5 Weeks into her coming back she went to get things from her apartment. this day as i came home i got bombarded with pictures and messages from the AP, turns out he went to the apartment took pictures of her (non sexual) and sent them to me to try to sabotage our reconciliation. She had asked him to go to apartment to get his thingg, but didnt tell me he was going. This was like another stab in the heart for me. He also sent messages to me saying there was a 3rd guy she hadnt told me about also from work, it was another PA, so AP telling me about OM1 when i had only known about OM2. So she comes back home and im clearly angry, she grabs her bags, packs and goes back to apartment. She decides to come back a day later.
Just a note during this time i made a lot of changes, i cut back on drinking dramatically, so max 1-2 glasses of wine during dinner with her and that was it. I used the time she returned to plan things, wed go for coffee during our lunch breaks at work, go for ice cream regularly, lots of walks, watch sporting events, drive in movies, restaurants, cafes, and we had even gone out for our aniversary. I would drive her every day to subway for work. I was being very active and taking up old hobbies again like doing a full vegetable garden, etc.
So after she returns from apartment, she apologized and all seemed well, during this time we began seeing MC, if felt like the MC was trying to get us to both work on our relationship, to me it felt like an absolute cluster@!$#@! of rug sweeping. i hadnt even been able to mention how many affair partners there were.
1 month and 2 weeks into R we got into a big fight, the W went to a party with this friend who i call the devil, i got upset about it, we had an argument, she said something stupid to me so i went for a walk to cool down, i didnt take my house keys. I came back door was locked, her car was gone. I then get messages from AP saying what is it like to be with someone who doesnt love you.
Again another stab in the chest this was. 2 days later i check her phone and shes texting him asking if he misses making love to her. Again i fought with her. 3 days later and the last MC session, i brought all of this up, i broke into tears in front of MC and her and i was becoming tired of this. Later at night as we are having dinner, she tells me the OM2 from work that me and AP were becoming good friends, I said wtf yare you talking to him about our life, she says hes just a friend
a friend who she had a PA with for 9 months and works with her. I had had enough
I kicked her out of the house again.
to be continued in next post
So this was late July and i had had enough, i decided to book a trip back to my birth country, the place where my parents now live as retirees. I needed to get as far away from this as possible. during the 2 weeks between me kicking her out and the trip she asked me to come by, her excuse was that her parents liked having me over. I went for 4 days and slept over each day. During this time i was still stupidly looking for a glimmer of hope and/or closure. the 2nd day she tells me shes sorry, and shes afraid of me finding someone back home. she kisses me passionately before we go back to parents home after a walk. This felt more real than anything in the last 7 months. so as im downstairs with her parents, she goes and takes a shower, i end up going upstairs after and sleeping with her. I wake up after her, she goes downstairs to do laundry, i decide to check her phone. so on the phone shes sent messages to AP telling him to see if they can make things work and the same night before sending flirty messages. I confront her and tell her, do you really want to lose me forever, I tell her this trip im taking as a return flight but the next one will be one way.
So a day later we had planned a get together from when she had come back home, with mutual friends, a wine festival. We decide to go, have a good time, then go for pastries afterwards as 2 couples even though we really werent. At the table her phone rings, phone is facing up, i can see its the AP, she accidentally answers then hangs up, then turns phone upside down on table after 5-6 phone calls. Turns out the dude saw her friends instagram posts from the festival.
We go back to her parents home and i sleep over again, while im lying next to her, her smart watch is going off nonstop with messages from him, and i can see. wake up in the morning, shes going to drop me off at home and there are 2 dried roses on the cars windshield wiper. I Knew right away what this was. I got mad all the way home.
3 days later im getting on the plane and all i get from her are messages saying, if you step on that plane its over. I reapeatedly said, you are screwing someone else, spare me
So i spend 3 weeks back home, i felt the stress, anxiety and pain go away, i felt at home where my roots were and i was surrounded by tons of family, cousins, etc. I spend the time sightseeing, going to beautiful churches, hiking, etc. during this time i tell my real estate agent here to prepare a listing agreement, and asking her to sign it.
She signs it while im away, i come back and i pressure her to come and clean up her things, our house was a mess and it needed to be decluttered.
Every weekend i beg her to come and clean up, i didnt want to touch her things, because i knew shed complain. Every weekend, she always had plans, i had become impatient. During this time i began drinking, heavily, like really heavily. I was just so lost and frustrated that nothing was happening and it felt like everything was ending.
I still somehow had love for this woman and it was killing me inside.
So september my drinking got to the point where i had to go to hospital and get help, i passed out before nurse saw me in emergency, woke up with IV in my arm and valium in iv drip. The alcohol wasnt doing this to me, it was the severe withdrawal, So 1 day in emergency, 1 day in psych ward, surrounded by people trying to kill nurses and breaking things. I transitioned to a withdrawal/rehab centre for a week, to get supervised medication adn get off the alcohol with the help of medication and some structured recovery.
So once i entered hospital it has now been 6 months without a drink and i do not crave it, i associate it with negative thoughts and a deep dark place i was in.
continuing in next post
so it is now October of 2023, minimal contact with her and she only comes over to drop off our 2 cats, i like having them over as they had given me company, and at this time we are late into october and because of her delaying the cleaning its now hard to catch the fall market. During this time i keep pressuring her to destroy the embryos we still have frozen at the clinic so we can get our money back, as a live birth was guaranteed. it was a substantial amount of money and would help us pay for lawyers, mediation and accumulated debt from this situation. It takes her 2.5 months to finally sign the consent to destroy the embryos. On the day she signed and i signed the consent i tried calling her out of sympathy. It was a sad moment because we had spent 8 years trying to have children and this was the definitive end. turns out she was on the other line when i called, so clearly talking to AP. Imagine something so private and something so intimate between the two of us and she discusses it with someone she met on instagram from a year earlier.
That really pissed me off.
So in late november she comes by one day, i had ordered food that we both liked and i got things that she really liked, i would have eaten it myself, she was dropping off cats and i asked her if she wanted some. she then went to sofa and fell asleep in my arms.
This feeling kept tugging at my heart and i knew i shouldnt be doing this but it felt so natural and comfortable.
Fast forward to the new year aka 2024 and i became cold and hadnt let her in house since that last encounter, if she was dropping off cats or getting someting like letters id just say bye and wouldnt invite her in. My heart wanted to have her come in but i knew i had to be cold for my own sake. So a month ago we receive money back from IVF and i put a retainer on a lawyer and a mediator instantly. Now im just going straight through the process. Ive had enough of this and have told her repeatedly, i do not want to be in a marriage with 2 other people and i stood alone at the altar when we married. during this time i ask her to pick up the cats as i had forgotten about plans i had for ice fishing with my friends, she replies back with a message intended for AP, i get furious and i drive the cats to her apartment and drop them in lobby and wait at a distance for her to pick them up.
this to me was the instigator in wanting to push as hard and as fast as possible for not only a legal separation but also go the whole way and file for divorce after we have a mediated division of assets and liabliities.
A big part of me still loves her, and i think ive come to accept it, another part of me instinctually wants to protect her from her bad choices, but i think i have to let her make them and i need to move on with my life. I think if R is even suggested, id definitely remind her that she wont like the conditions that it will require for me to even entertain such an option.
I dont think id push myself through this much pain if seeing her not being able to be a mother had a major impact on her like it did, otherwise i dont think id be here at this point. But i feel like i must push on with my brain and ignore my heart.
sorry for the extreme length of this post, i will keep any updates more brief as i wish i had come here before and done a play by play as the other threads and gotten good advice instead of doing everything absolutely wrong.
Catman, let me be the first to say that I'm sorry you had to go through this. As was once said to me: sorry you're here but you're in the right place.
First of all, read the posts on boundaries and detachment. Like you, at one time I didn't know enough to recognize when my W was "crossing the line" in her treatment of me, and when a boundary was appropriate. We are taught as kids to stand up to bullies and bullying behavior, but we're never really taught that sometimes that behavior will come from people we love and who are supposed to love us. Boundaries are actions, not words, delivered in a firm and loving way.
Second of all, you'll see a lot on here about "getting a life", or GAL. Do it. Your comment about including your W in everything including your hobbies indicates this will be a big shift (or has been, since your post covers a lot of time). Do not sit and stew in your sitch. Reconnect with old friends, make new ones, pick up new hobbies, etc. This will help with detachment too. I like to spearfish and I'll tell you, when I'm 20 feet down in a kelp bed looking for white sea bass I am not thinking about my W or the decisions she made that contributed to the end of our MR.
Lastly, congrats on your sobriety. Keep it up.
A big part of me still loves her, and i think ive come to accept it, another part of me instinctually wants to protect her from her bad choices, but i think i have to let her make them and i need to move on with my life.
One final note: you did not break her, and you cannot fix her. Remember this.
Good Morning Catman19
Welcome to the boards.
I am including Cadet’s welcoming post for your reference. There are many links to a trove of useful information.
Have read Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis? It’ is an excellent resource, and a worthy read.
Some wise words from Wonka:
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I look forward to conversing with you.
DnJ
- - - -
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_the_divorce_remedy.htmA few other books by MWD:
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm And Michele's articles.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmOnce your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you for your kind words Maturin
Yeah on the GAL front it's been kind of difficult. Winter now takes away a lot of outdoor activities. Can't really play golf, can't do gardening (something the W later complained that I was taking time away from her for), I used to play rec soccer but now I have to be careful after backninjury. I've taken on a crypto mining project in my home, I fill in some free time with video games. Exercise is something I have to focus on, more for my mind. My job is fairly active as I walk betweenb10-15 km daily, I'm currently at ideal bmi, I've gotten my 30-40lb weight fluctuations under control and try andnfocus diet on protein heavy foods and fruit. I used to enjoy cooking a lot, I was the cook at home majority of the time, it tends to be harder to cook complex meals for one person. In terms of spending time with friends that also becomes difficult -nme and w, my brother and w, 2 friends and their wives were a friend group and we were the planners for events, kind of like the glue that held the group together, so getting together with friends with families becomes difficult. I am trying in any way I can however.
On the process front I'm seriously considering leaving thr country and taking a 5 year sabbatical back home to where my parents are, try a new life there and see how it goes, new scenery and options for leisure + a job offer I received when I last went there. I'm fully bilingual so this should help as well as being a dual citizen. This would also give me an opportunity to help out my father who has advanced Parkinsons and can no longer drive or do many things he could before, I'd be living rent free in my parents home until I get settled with a separate apartment. This would be a big move for me so I'm trying not to accumulate any new things right now and trying to minimize my possessions.
On the home and separation front, our home is going to be listed for sale in 3 weeks time, I should be able to get 300k in pocket if we get market value. Although 2 days ago the WW threw a wrench into plans, she told me she could arrange financing to buy me out, either she's making it up to cancel listing and delay or maybe she's got her AP to go together with her. If this is the case its completely wild, I told her before he's chasing you cause he knows you're getting money from house, as he sounds like a scammer from the little I know. This threw me off because I need concrete financing in order to entertain delaying the listing, otherwise it becomes a time wasting exercise. It's just the fact that after 1 year and 2 months now she comes up with something in the bottom of the ninth inning and tries calling an audible at the line. I really do think she's confused, I don't think she's gotten a lawyer or taken anything seriously, I think the status quo was perfectly fine for her, but it certainly wasn't for me.
I am so sorry that you are dealing with this situation. It is never easy, but, you have found a safe place to post/vent your frustrations.
As for your residence, move forward as you are doing. If your WW wants the place, she can go through the proper channels to purchase it, if she can afford it. You want a solid "sold" on the property so that you can move forward.
Continue moving forward, protect your assets and be prepared for wrenches to be tossed in from time to time. She is a very confused individual who does not have a clue as to what she is losing. Right now, she wants freedom to do whatever she wants, i.e., like a rebelling teen, who doesn't realize the consequences of her actions are going to come back and bite her later.
Unless she can offer you proof right now about the financing for the home...continue as you have been.
I know that this is difficult, but keep as much of your time focused on you and what you need to do to move forward. Come here to vent....we all have been where you are right now and some of the posters are going through the same type of stuff.
P.S. Be sure you document everything!
Thank you DnJ, yeah just order divorce busting, divorce remedy and healing from infidelity by Michelle, definitely looking forward to reading them and learning approaches that are counter to what I've been doing. May I also say reading a lot of Sandi's posts and her insight from her perspective on many of the threads has been a fascinating and awakening experience. I find this forum to be extremely intellectual and has a lot of emotional and personal maturity. It's refreshing when comparing to other forums where it's a one size fits all and a lot of acting without thoroughly considering a different approach, infidelity has to be one of the most complex things any BS and couple can go through
Good Morning Catman
My situation I would say is a combination of WW and MLC
After 22 years together, 12 married, such waywardness is quite the gut punch. Repeated gut punch, unfortunately.
Your W is going down a desperate and destructive path. One which, thankfully, you were not invited along.
Be her trajectory a crisis or life transition is hard to diagnose. 40 years is a milestone age which does bring about feelings and realizations of one’s life and their accolades and regrets. A period of finding acceptance of who and when you are. And also figuring out going forward the what, how, and who of your next stage of life.
For a person with unrealized unresolved last trauma(s) this time dredges up pains and torments that they do not understand. They will lash out at those around them, those they love, for they incorrectly assign blame not understanding nor realizing their hidden buried past. For a MLCer, blame and justification towards their spouse manifests as they struggle with their ceaseless inner torments. A person in crisis does not, cannot, yet know why or what they suffer from. It is a past significant trauma - usually traumas - which happened when they were young and unable to understand or cope with such. Therefore they buried it. And that which is buried alive comes back to haunt.
Around midlife, pressures of mortality, work, relationships, regrets, things not yet done, things unlikely to get done, all push. The years of unsuccessful IVF is some extreme pressure for sure. All this stir those long ago, unknown pains within. At midlife, those demons will no longer remain silent.
The crisis person becomes the opposite of who they once were. They partake in all manner of wild behaviour. They are running from their torment. They will spend, drink, do drugs, and so on. They are trying to recapture their youth, to make up for lost time. Of course, that is a fool’s errand, though they do not know that. And yes, they have affairs.
The mixed up hurt crisis person equates sex with happiness. Realize they have no joy in their now tormented life, and they are desperate to find it. And desperate people do desperate things.
Affairs are staggeringly common. The affair partner means nothing. They are a band-aid, a symptom of a deep problem within. The AP is being used, and is using the spouse. Two broken people trying to find something.
All this running is an attempt to quash their pain, and simultaneously to feel something. Their life is a dark consuming place. Horrible. Alas, such is a crisis.
No one can speed up their journey. In fact, any attempts usually prolongs it, or worst stall it. A crisis, once started, has to progress, at its speed and timeline until it is finished. If a crisis does get de-railed, or “ended” prematurely, it will re-start later and will be much worse the second go around.
Also, you do not want the responsibility of her path upon your shoulders. It’s why one should not manipulate their spouse’s path. We cannot see all ends.
A crisis is dark and consuming. Depression is ever present. And confusion is another hallmark of a crisis. The MLCer is driven to their behaviour. Their path, their decisions, everything is emotionally driven. Very little rational logical reasoned steps on their journey.
A MLCer goes back to the time of their trauma(s), the time of when they were emotionally stunted, and needs to grow up from then.
There is period of 18-24 months of before bomb drop when the MLCer is slowly slipping away. Weird unknown feelings stirring within. Then a trigger occurs. A death, a birth, wedding, graduation, etc; something that highlights for them their mortality. This triggering events starts the unravelling towards BD and the start of the running stage.
My XW days after BD was so happy and assured of her choice. A few days after BD, in a so very smug and absolutely confident manner, she told me that for months before BD she cried all the time I was at work and the kids were at school. She said she didn’t know what was going on. That she thought she was going crazy. Then she had her epiphany - that a crazy person wouldn’t realize that, so she wasn’t. And that was that. She blew up her world. Threw me away. Tossed aside our four kids like they were old clothes. And moved in with OM. That was 6 1/2 years ago.
MLC is a horrible thing! And glacially slow to progress.
Your W is painting a target upon you. Projecting and blaming you for her ills. Give lots of time and space. Get a life. Focus on you. These are your path. Keep moving forward.
You cannot control her or her path. You can only control you - your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
No R-talks and no pressure.
W needs to feel the loss of you and the relationship. To come to the point where she realizes that “hmmm, Catman hasn’t been bothering me for quite a while
and I’m still unhappy”. Then with some good fortune W might realize that “maybe Catman is not the cause of my unhappiness”. And with even more good fortune, W might look inward and start to do her much needed inner work. Or she’ll move on to OM4,5,6.
Running. They run from their pain. It takes years for them to tire and stop running. And some do not stop running, ever.
You, keep moving forward. Do your inner work. Become the best version of yourself. A man only a fool would leave.
Hope you have a great day.
D
Thank you DnJ, such an eloquent post and hit straight at the heart. I am sorry for what you went through, none of us deserve to be in this place but yet here we are trying to play the card game of life with the cards we are dealt.
The mixed up hurt crisis person equates sex with happiness. Realize they have no joy in their now tormented life, and they are desperate to find it. And desperate people do desperate things.
Yeah it was one one night stand followed by a long term physical affair with a man who was clearly using her for her body, and then an EA that became a PA as well and a full relationship while bouncing back and forth with me. It feels like a rebellious teenager acting out and trying to have one last hurrah and reliving lost youth, filling a self esteem deficit with superficial attention.
Affairs are staggeringly common. The affair partner means nothing. They are a band-aid, a symptom of a deep problem within. The AP is being used, and is using the spouse. Two broken people trying to find something.
Initially I thought what does he see in this guy but then realized it could be anyone, anyone who would tell her whatever she wanted to hear to fill her need for validating words and encouraging whatever it is she was saying or feeling, I realized I could never compete with this, no matter how hard I tried I had to be absolutely perfect and he was completely flawless in her eyes, despite multiple clear flaws that were visible even to me. It's as almost like she had to convince herself he was the perfect man and creating a false image of him or what she wanted him to be to feed her need
My XW days after BD was so happy and assured of her choice. A few days after BD, in a so very smug and absolutely confident manner, she told me that for months before BD she cried all the time I was at work and the kids were at school. She said she didn’t know what was going on. That she thought she was going crazy.
So many similarities, the same time period leading up to BD, endless fights literally about nothing, aggressive behaviour, then next day acted as if nothing happened, meanwhile I was completely broken down by the abuse, I even questioned her once if she had BPD, I even sometimes think she has some sort of NPD, maybe not fully but somewhere high on the spectrum. The more she asked of me to do for her the more I did and the more she wasn't satisfied, it was endless shifting of goalposts and brought me extreme exhaustion and demoralized me to no end. Later after BD she even repeated multiple times to me "I don't know what's wrong with me" . But she never tried to deal with outside of IC, and tbh the IC was our MC and she was terrible, almost like an enabler and master rugsweeper, focused on building our relationship without addressing the damage or the elephant in the room.
W needs to feel the loss of you and the relationship. To come to the point where she realizes that “hmmm, Catman hasn’t been bothering me for quite a while and I’m still unhappy”. Then with some good fortune W might realize that “maybe Catman is not the cause of my unhappiness”. And with even more good fortune, W might look inward and start to do her much needed inner work. Or she’ll move on to OM4,5,6.
I sense this might not end well for her but I can see her blowing all her money and continuously looking got answers in OM instead of looking inward. W will definitely feel my loss as I'm making a permanent move overseas and I will be gone like a ghost, not even a shadow will be left behind, I've held on for too long at the expense of my mental health and prolonging of decisiveness of my future
Hi Catman,
I just read your thread. I think you are doing well, and good job not drinking.
This is a great place for support. I was around your age when my sitch went down. That was about 15 years ago. It triggered my continuous focus on my personal growth.
My 2 cents:
1) Everything that works is counter intuitive. Everyone has a difference definition of "What works". Saving yourself, saving the marriage, making positive changes to your behavior....
2) Focus on your personal growth. I was enhailing 2-3 books a week. Always making positive change to my behavior.
3) Learn about and understand the differences between seduction and attraction. Make positve changes to the way you interact with all women (as well as men), and especially your W. Again, this is counter intuitve because we have lots of subconsious behaviors that may not be the best way to be.
4) Read the quotes threads I have created. Lots of collective wisdom.
Thank you R2C
Yeah I'm currently reading not just friends by Shirley glass, more to understand how affairs come to be through innocent friendships that quickly become more than just that. It's pretty how much everything started. Getting Michele's books and will work on those as well.
Yeah I understand a lot about who I am. We met when we were 18 so it was my first real relationship, I was never much of a sweet talker and would be considered the typical nice guy, somewhat shy as I have been all my life.
I guess I wasn't enough of a sweet talking player as I always tried to be authentic and always showed affection through my actions and words. She turned to 3 different guys that we are all Latino sweet talkers, she's obsessed with the culture because of their tendency to go after women, I know a few Latinos in their culture its a type of machismo but they are all fake and know how to play women to get what they want. Many if not most of them are cheaters and think nothing of it, but don't have any depth whatsoever
She has low self esteem so they know how to feed her ego. I'm old school and traditional, have strong faith and strong family values. I guess this was not attractive to her as she said I was traditional like her parents in a derogatory fashion. Even though her parents have been together for almost 50 years and have cared for each other through serious illnesses. I took pride in havjng those values because they stand the test of time.
I can go back and forth between having confidence and not depending how my life is going, although that's taken a massive hit lately. I guess I have to relearn all over how to attract women, even though my core values I definitely will not compromise because it makes me who I am and I am not actively seeking any relationship nor will I force it. I know my worth and living in a man's world I know there's very few who think the way I do and who don't sway my moral compass depending on where the wind blows.
So an update, she has agreed to initial intake consultation with mediator in 2 weeks time. Today she also sent me a text message saying she doesn't understand the investment stuff
She received regular letters for annual general meetings for companies and voting instructions for some board of directors and such, all from investments I made in her retirement plans from before. Normally I would do all of this stuff but I just told her to read the letters to understand. All of the letters are useless and no action has to be taken, but since one of the many things I used to do now is her responsibility I am not telling her anything, I am also not doing her taxes this year for the first time since married, it's her problem
If I wasn't required in the marriage I'm not required to do things she's now responsible for.
She's also going to have to provide all investment account details to mediator, again something she's no clue how to do but I have little sympathy
Home sale still approaches in 2.5 weeks so hopefully things continue on this path
I'm still emotionally struggling but am soldiering on, I still love her but I will no longer show her in any way nor do her any favors. I bought myself a package at a local yoga studio and booked my first lesson tomorrow. It's a great place to meet people but I'm going with intent on working on relaxation and mindfulness/breathing . Any interactions are a bonus
I will return to the gym and start my old routine, I'm fairly lean to begin with but will start working on getting muscular definition and building some muscle with my mostly protein heavy diet.
I was never much of a sweet talker and would be considered the typical nice guy, somewhat shy as I have been all my life.....I have to relearn all over how to attract women, even though my core values I definitely will not compromise because it makes me who I am...and I don't sway my moral compass depending on where the wind blows.
Good. Solidify your core values during this. You can learn/practice new ways of interacting without compromising your boundaries. Most of us here increased our distance from other women while we were married (protecting the relationship). From my research, I believe this decreased our SMV ect.
Glass was a good read. Check our the art of seduction. What I learned in that book helps give my lady what she needs in the R.
Thanks R2C, I will definitely look into that book, I'm taking myself a little out of my comfort zone and trying yoga tomorrow, mostly for my mental health but as it's female dominated activity it might make it easier to reinvigorate myself with the opposite sex. Definitely not looking or forcing anything until I find myself but for me it's a baby step
So WW texted me that when all is said and done we can still remain friends lmfao
Yeah I replied, I'm not your gay friend to talk about the guy you banged while married to me
Then block, yeah getting tired of dealing with a delusional teenage like brain
So yesterday I text the WW to tell her her tax forms are at home, she immediately replies by questioning why I have a charge on my credit card for yoga studio. I had forgotten she was still a secondary card holder on my credit card so she could see my purchases. I told her it was a gift card because she doesn't need to know what I'm doing.
Right away the texts start coming one after the other:
Is it for your girlfriend
I'm happy you found someone
I'm glad you moved on
I hope you have a family and are happy
All clearly sarcastic replies
She even made the leap to say I bought a fruit edible arrangement, I had made a purchase from a company called fruits and associates which has nothing to do with fruits
I find it mind-boggling that someone who's been with her AP for now over a year have the audacity to even show even a hint of jealousy at me potentially talking to someone
At this point this has to be a psychological issue. I've read on these forums this similar type of thing happening to others
Like we are seeing a mediator in a week to start the legal separation and home is going on sale a week later, yet she's still trying to hold on to me as some sort of possession. Like reality is hitting her in the face and she still doesn't get it. I don't know how you guys deal with this over a longer period of time than I have
Good Morning Catman
So WW texted me that when all is said and done we can still remain friends
Yep, a pretty common thing. It’s them trying to assuage their guilt and shame methinks.
My XW had similar lofty crazy ideas of us (her, OM, kids, me) all having drinks and barbecues on the deck once the dust settled. In my case, that sentiment of her’s didn’t last long, everyone - friends and family, were tossed aside as she ran to her shinny new life.
They say all kinds of things. Whatever they feel. Look to the actions.
For the most part: Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.
Yeah I replied, I'm not your gay friend to talk about the guy you banged while married to me
I’d recommend not poking the bear. You are in the midst of a divorce. No need to antagonize W and have her turn contentious in negotiations.
Also, it has an effect upon you. I get the feeling of such a truth dart. However, feelings are fleeting. Your action(s) will be long lasting. Look deep and be/do better. Be your best self.
Same for the yoga payment on your credit card. You don’t have to answer her.
Step back and give 24-48 hours before answering W. That gives you plenty of time for your feelings to extinguish and for you to decide what, if any, rational thought out response you’d give.
I told her it was a gift card because she doesn't need to know what I'm doing.
Right away the texts start coming one after the other:
Is it for your girlfriend
I'm happy you found someone
I'm glad you moved on
I hope you have a family and are happy
All clearly sarcastic replies
Personally, silence would be better than some “white” lie. Lying, of any color, is a heavy yoke upon you, and a troublesome burden as you struggle to keep it all straight. Besides, now she’s off on some tangent. Yes, sarcastic replies, which is all just more fodder and fuel for the fire. If she doesn’t need to know what you’re doing then just don’t respond. IMHO.
I find it mind-boggling that someone who's been with her AP for now over a year have the audacity to even show even a hint of jealousy at me potentially talking to someone
Yep. What a tormented mind.
Keep moving forward towards whole and healed.
D
My XW had similar lofty crazy ideas of us (her, OM, kids, me) all having drinks and barbecues on the deck once the dust settled. In my case, that sentiment of her’s didn’t last long, everyone - friends and family, were tossed aside as she ran to her shinny new life.
Yeah I feel like an outsider looking in now and it's amazing the lack of self awareness and entitlement. I don't let it bother me now and getting super healthy has helped dramatically with mental health, probably feeling a lot better then when she was here and we'd have stupid fights over nothing.
Personally, silence would be better than some “white” lie. Lying, of any color, is a heavy yoke upon you, and a troublesome burden as you struggle to keep it all straight. Besides, now she’s off on some tangent. Yes, sarcastic replies, which is all just more fodder and fuel for the fire. If she doesn’t need to know what you’re doing then just don’t respond. IMHO. smile
Yeah I'm keeping communication to a minimum, not antagonizing her as much as I can, I can see her becoming super vindictive and making things difficult. I am not in headspace yet to meet someone new and will likely only consider even minimum contact with someone new after the dust settles. I am big on faith and until it's dissolved I will stay true to myself. I don't want to give her any ammunition saying we're both with other people, I prefer to come out of with head held high. It's better to beat someone with values and morals than it is to be vengeful.
Yeah I'm keeping communication to a minimum, not antagonizing her as much as I can, I can see her becoming super vindictive and making things difficult. I am not in headspace yet to meet someone new and will likely only consider even minimum contact with someone new after the dust settles. I am big on faith and until it's dissolved I will stay true to myself. I don't want to give her any ammunition saying we're both with other people, I prefer to come out of with head held high. It's better to beat someone with values and morals than it is to be vengeful.
Good. Walk in the light. Take the high road.
Now, and I think you’ll be able to hear it, from my tag line:
Love the person, forgive the sin.
It is not about beating her; not with values or morals or anything. Live your values and morals, and find forgiveness. By the way, you aren’t forgiving her the person, you are forgiving the deeds, the transgressions against you. Finding the way to write paid in full upon whatever invoice your heart is holding. It’s a most worthy journey. One I believe you are upon.
D
So I had a little of what you called a relapse. Went for a few days without contact.
Last night decided to find out the dude who she's with his full name. Found him on Instagram and saw a post with her arm wearing a piece of jewelry he gave her, it kind of triggered me because the last time she came to the house she was wearing it and I had asked her if it was the wristband he gave her. She said no but it clearly was as it was in the picture. I know I shouldn't have done this but again we do things emotionally counterintuitive to what logic dictates but our hearts lead us down the wrong path. I firstly did it to find out his full name in case I needed to get what we call a peace bond, which is similar to a restraining order. I warned her multiple times that he is not to step foot on this property until it is sold and closed upon, I have ample harassment from him directly to me from before as a measure to get such an order and have lawyer on retainer for these types of things. To me my home is the last sanctuary that I have remaining, and a lot of sweat and tears went into it, I want to leave it unsullied and free of any more potential hurt. Going through his instagram and seeing posts from him showing he was hurt during those 2 months she had returned to me really hit me where the heart was, everything started flooding back in. It made me remember her telling me during those 2 months that she doesn't want to hurt anyone anymore but looking back it seemed as though only the man she had known for 6 months was what she was referring to. It's really hard looking back and wondering how you could spend more than 2 decades with someone and it all was usurped by someone completely new and to be thrown aside as not much more than an afterthought.
None of this has dampened my push for the legal separation, followed by divorce and home sale.
All of this said despite me going out more and working on myself, I feel like I am just masking the internal pain and the mental breakdowns are still there, seeing everything I had worked so hard for all coming to an end all at the same time is by far becoming the hardest and most difficult aspect of all of this for me. My love for her has not waned but I have also tried not enabling her behaviour. I have seen my doctor to book a psychiatrist to hopefully get some medication for the anxiety and a general health check via blood test and a heart test.
Thank you everyone in this group for all the words of wisdom, I have learned a great deal from the short time I have been here. Next week my focus is going to be on hitting the gym to regain focus and improve my overall health both physical and mental. I have made a go of my crypto side business and am now earning the equivalent of market rent for an apartment so that's giving me something to work on. I wish the best of luck to many of the new members here, the road we travel is not an easy one but God gives us obstacles to test our faith and make us stronger.
Has anyone had the WW spouse come to a realization during mediation process for legal separation of sale of house that they want to return to their marriage?
I'm pushing forward with the process, I've gotten bouts of jealousy from her end of a potential gf on my part even though that isn't the case, followed by asking where I am going when I told her to come pick up some of her things. Like it feels like the end is finally near, I haven't stopped my GAL process but it seems like she is not letting go of OM.
Like it still baffles me that she is in such a delusional state. Like the guy she is wjth his instagram he follows close to 700 people and 99 percent of them seem like either single girls or girls looking for attention. She's told me before that she's seen on his phone him asking girls for pictures, this BTW is how she met him. I feel like he's making a lot of false promises to her and brainwashing her to such a deep degree that she's blinding her to what type of dude he is.
Emotionally this part is so difficult and I'm having a really hard time realizing everything seems to be coming to an end and she is so enamored by him because he's a smooth talking player that she can't realize what she's losing. I really feel like she has to hit absolute rock bottom to come to that point, but I feel once the home is sold and separation complete that I won't have the mental energy to even entertain taking her back. I do not spend time with her nor see her in person because I cannot put myself through that knowing she's still with someone and it's only enabled her to continue. I feel like her recent jealousy still sees me as a possibility but I do not want this plan B feeling. If I had her come back and say I'm willing to work on things and do whatever it takes I might entertain it but definitely with Noone else in the picture, but I feel her fear of being alone is pushing her towards him likely with a lot of encouragement from him.
She’s upset because she’s losing her plan B. It really is that simple unfortunately.
If you aren’t ready for the divorce than don’t do it. There’s absolutely nothing saying you have to force one through and if you are doing trying to wake her up I don’t think I’ve seen it work once in the going on 4 years I’ve been here but that’s not to say it won’t but the odds aren’t exactly in your favor.
So you say she doesn’t realize what’s she’s losing. I’d encourage you to look within and see what needs to change on your end. She’s your wife and obviously knows you better than anyone or at least should and right now she’s not seeing it as you describe it. I’d encourage you to look at the marriage prior to B/D and have an honest conversation with yourself on where you could do better. I did that and it’s made a world of difference in my second marriage.
Yeah I'm doing the separation to protect my financial standing as I don't want her racking up debt as she's in complete delusion mode and finances to her are meaningless. Legal separation is usually followed by divorce, I am not doing it to push her to do anything I just can't tolerate the yo yo back and forth showing me affection while acting as if the other man isn't in the picture. I've wasted a year and 2 months digging endlessly for any hope. When we were together the last couple of years ivf was a major issue. That's completely done and gone, she would fight with me endlessly towards the end and I'd get defensive but a lot of that was because she was getting attention elsewhere, she reached out to female friends who are married saying she was having a hard time turning 40 so a lot of this is driven by a perfect combination of pressures. That along with 2 new jobs that introduced her to 2 affair partners and new work colleagues who are either single and promiscuous or divorced cheaters. Ilthe last year we were together I busted my ass planning everything for us. I have worked on all my flaws especially the drinking and the anxiety I have worked on a lot. My anxiety at the end was largely driven by her unwillingness to be grateful for the life we had and feeling of insecurity/low self esteem. I have no doubt I will be fine when this is all done, I'm not so sure about her, despite everything I have not let my emotions guide me as I am a thoughtful and measured person but she's all over the place right now, I can only imagine if she sees me with someone, it will break her likely based on how she's spoken to me or been ultra jealous since last January. I feel like if I don't push for the divorce I will not be able to live a proper life and I feel she needs to learn this lesson on her own, the dude has such a hold over her thinking and from what I've seen he's definitely using her, he's giving up nothing to be with her and she's probably a payday for him. Dude works as a mover, I saw an ad of him posting classifieds, he was asking for young girls to work clean. Who asks for young girls, older cleaners are better. He's the ultimate pig but she's going to have to learn this by herself. And I'm going to have to move on.
If I may ask, what’s changed in a week? You came here a week ago looking to save the marriage and now are fully accepting you’re getting a divorce.
You’ve only wasted the time if you don’t learn and grow from it.
You’re too focused on her and what her reactions will be to the divorce or seeing you with another woman.
You also just made and excuses and blamed her for your faults. (Anxiety/insecurity)
I’m not saying you’re wrong and she’s blameless and I’m not saying she’s justified in her behavior in any way shape or form.
Divorce busting is about working on yourself and saving yourself and the side effect to that is potentially saving your marriage. Even if you accepted you can’t be with her anymore, there is still work to do.
Thank you for your thoughts Joseph, while I did have hopes of saving the marriage, that squarely hinged on her putting in the effort and humbling herself, and of course without OM in the picture. I have worked on myself as much as I could, just waiting for some more outdoor activities to add to my routine, getting together with people as well. I still need cooperation from her in this process, be it agreeing on home sale price and mediation, she is of the type of person that needs to feel a loss to understand what she is doing and I have a strong feeling that will likely show up in the upcoming weeks. I had anxiety issues before I met her, but she exacerbated it with the emotional and mental abuse during the affairs, I'm generally a calm person and my anxiety only really is an issue when I'm being mistreated. As we have been together 22 years it's still not an easy process and is very difficult to let go but at the same time I have not forced the issue because although I still have slim hopes, I'm not seeing anything from her that would tell me to stop the process. I have a pretty clear road map of where my life is headed after divorce, be it financially, career wise and where I chose to restart my life location wise. My focus is not lost.
Whatever hopes I have/had of saving the marriage are dwindling by the day. If i don't move forward with what I have to do I will be wasting my own time and I've pretty much exhausted all other options already
Sorry if my grammar [censored] but the insecurity was an issue she was having, I know my worth and what I have to offer
I'm surrounded by cheaters so I know loyalty/integrity is something I will take pride in. She was insecure in her looks and needing to get endless attention to make herself feel good. My anxiety with her tended to be a bit driven by this insecurity and low self esteem as no matter what I did it was never adequate and I'd be told regularly during affairs that if she didn't get enough attention from me she'd get it elsewhere even though I gave all I could.
And in terms of her reactions to me, be it the jealousy or saying she's noticed I've moved on, a lot of that is due to the changes I've made for myself. I'm super healthy now and am living life for myself. It just feels like she's gonna wait for everything to be finalized to actually put in the work herself which she hasn't at all
So I opened up instagram on my desktop, I usually use my phone, I didn't realize her login info was saved.
Of course I probably shouldn't have done this but I logged in and saw their communication over a period of 2-3 months. It gave me the perspective of what someone going through a crisis looks like. She had way more fights with him than she did with me towards end. She was having the same problems she complained about with our relationship, lack of passion compared to beginning, feeling like he's distant from her, her having the same pattern of fighting then wanting to be intimate. Her saying he's not the same as when they first met, a lot of this type of stuff. Basically she was already getting bored of not having the rush of a new relationship, him using his daughter as a way to manipulate her. Much of what I already assumed. It actually made it hard for me to because it felt like she is completely broken, also a lot of the fights coincided with her being nice and affectionate to me. It also reinforced to me that it was absolutely nothing that I did wrong and this is an issue deep inside of her. I have abstrong feeling that if and when this one ends she's just gonna try and reach for the high of a new relationship. It's hard to know that she's surrounded by enablers instead of people pointing her in the right path
This however hasn't changed my goals and drive to make myself the best I can be, hitting the gym a lot harder and have a six pack for the first time in my life, socializing more, keeping myself busy.
I just have a very strong feeling she's going to hit rock bottom at this rate
Frankly I'm amazed at how long we even lasted together considering how quickly she went in love head over heels with him and now he's already tired of her fighting with him and playing games.
It was an amazing eye opening look into the mind of someone so deeply lost.
SI have abstrong feeling that if and when this one ends she's just gonna try and reach for the high of a new relationship...This however hasn't changed my goals and drive to make myself the best I can be, hitting the gym a lot harder and have a six pack for the first time in my life, socializing more, keeping myself busy.
So with all your new behaviors and skills, can you give her this feeling? If not, it is worth learning these skills.
I don't think I could give her this feeling ATM tbh, she still seems to be in a withdrawal type mode and until recently she was sending soulmate posts to him, she's still ironically in the mode where she thinks soul mates should fight for each other and not give up. So I don't want to give her any emotional or sexual vibes because she stills sees the so called problems we had. She actually came over last night to drop off our cats and she offered to help me clean the house on Sunday to prepare it for listing the following week, I did not ask her and she offered willingly. I do not want to give off the vibe that I still want her, I want her to chase me and to show her what type of man she is losing. I was calm throughout our brief conversation and she noticed my demeanor and physical appearance. She cried to me about everything and reiterated she never meant to hurt me. She said the most hurtful thing was me telling her a few days before that I don't think we should remain friends after this, as I had told her she has someone now to confide in and I don't want to be in this picture. She replied by saying she's not with anyone and that they don't talk anymore, although from the messages while it seems they broke up last last year, her messages still show she's still in communication. I'm focusing on myself but by doing so, I'm showing her the best side of me and what she's possibly losing.
I'm still in the mindset that if anything was to ever happen, I would need her to show she has really changed, I'm not getting that sense yet. But I feel mediation which starts tomorrow needs to proceed as well as house. Divorce is more final and permanent but that is only after legal separation. I feel like our home has lost any significance to our lives and it's likely best to rid ourselves of it. I'm carrying on with the plan as I see is best for me but I am not waiting or expecting anything from her part of things, as she still brought up things she found gave her excuses to seek out other men. I have none of that, I acknowledge I wasn't perfect and it was a hard year but I think she needs to continue seeing what she's losing and the best version of me is what I want her to see.
So an update. I spoke to her the other day at a coffee shop after mediation. I was in purely read between the lines mode, I saw her looking at a family with children and saw that she still is going through the problem of inability to have children. She mentioned to me she still harbors resentment towards me but doesn't know why. She said she's no longer with OM, I didn't ask directly, just said I don't want to be in an open marriage. I checked her Instagram and it turns out she's been blocked by him now. It feels like her resentment is from inability to blame anyone but herself for why her life is going the way it is going. Now she wants to buy time to see if she can buy me out, I know it's highly unlikely as for the amount she needs even with both our incomes we'd have a hard time getting approved. I see this as her buying time, I'm willing to give it to her as if house listing is delayed till April we should get more on the market anyways. It's annoying because the two friends she talked most about everything they both messed up their marriages and harbor endless resentment towards their exes and it feels like she's following in the blame everyone else strategy.
I'm beginning to become indifferent and seeing this continued behaviour is giving me a clear indication that she has not learned yet from any of her choices. I find it very likely she's probably looking for the next target of "passion" to fill in the void inside of her. The only positive sign I took from her was her saying she agrees with me that happiness is something one finds within oneself, but otherwise she seems very bitter and resentful towards me, a lot of that likely because the OM didn't go as she expected but as I predicted.
I'm starting to get to the point where I am feeling a lot better about myself and my future and I honestly don't think I can even consider any olive branch towards her if I don't see radical change, otherwise her same feelings towards me will surface again into impulsive behaviour
I heard this the other day, and thought some on the board could benifit:
PsycHacks- Your PRIME objective should be to become attractive. To become a man that women are attracted to. That's how you get your foot in the door, and the good news is, it's really good news, that most of the things that actually relate to female attraction, are things that you can learn and develop. These are things like, being physically fit knowing how to dress, learning the art of charming conversation, choosing a life mission, attaining success and picking up some game. These are things that women respond to. These are also all skills that you can learn and they all benefit you directly with the indirect benefit of making you more attractive to women. So whats the hold up?
I have my list of things. Each of us needs to have our unique list and continually work on it.
This is good:
just said I don't want to be in an open marriage
I see this as her buying time, I'm willing to give it to her
I think giving her time is not. Pulling away is attractive.
This is good:
I'm beginning to become indifferent
she seems very bitter and resentful towards me
Pulling away and giving her time and space will reduce the resentment.
I'm starting to get to the point where I am feeling a lot better about myself and my future and I honestly don't think I can even consider any olive branch towards her if I don't see radical change
YUP. Focus on you...until she is begging you to take her back...that is usually a long ways out in the future.
So I allowed her 2 more weeks to obtain a buyout offer. At first I didn't want to but financially it might actually be to my benefit. The market is typically better in April vs March and if she does manage to come up with a buyout we can avoid paying real estate salesperson fees which is likely to be $50k + or more. If the offer isn't good enough I just won't accept it, I still have no clue how she's going to get the money but I kind of don't care now.
Mediation is moving forward so that's a bonus and at least I get 2 more weeks of going hard on focus to gym and exercise routine I've been building up. Just bought myself some creatine and whey protein to go along with amino acid rich workout drink. I've cut down calories and control my intake now, protein and creatine is to build muscle strength, metabolism and probiotic health to go along with exercise. I'm finding it easier to reduce calorie intake along with removing any unhealthy or high carb foods. That includes anything fried, overly prepared meals, fatty goofs and focus on protein rich foods like fish and chicken and lots of greens/vegetables and fruits.
It's amazing how drastic dietary changes coupled with steady exercise can do for your mindset and overall feeling better.
I didn't really want to give her the 2 weeks but I've played out all the scenarios in my head and in the end I see a bigger benefit for myself and maybe more money in my pocket after we dispose of marital home. I only don't like the fact that it seems she's playing some sort of game with this but I have my lawyer ready for anything and mediation will be further along in 2 weeks so at least I can be sure it's done before final outcome of home decision
Maybe I'll get a couple of rounds of golf in during these 2 weeks as weather is allowing courses to open now here
Yeah so just found out through her login info she's already sleeping the next guy. Yeah time for scorched earth, I want to distance myself from this absolute train wreck now
I’m just going to say this real quick.
You are all over the place emotionally attempting to convince yourself you’re fine.
Do you have an councilors or therapist you can speak too?
I'm doing much better, these things are just giving me clarity and giving me a reason to extract myself from this situation as quickly as possible. I've let her drag this on longer than I'm comfortable with and now I realize and see I need to exit this situation before it taints me in any way. Think of it as a final kick in the butt. The fact I'm seeing her go deeper into the abyss makes it easier for me, no signs of self improvement or awareness on her part tells me the longer I'm anywhere near the situation the longer it will be for healing and self improvement. You can only do so much and keep a door open long enough, time to shut the door for good and follow through with the logistics of my self focused plan.
The fact I'm seeing her go deeper into the abyss makes it easier for me, no signs of self improvement or awareness on her part tells me the longer I'm anywhere near the situation the longer it will be for healing and self improvement.
You don't see self improvement or awareness on her part because she thinks you are the problem.
You can only do so much and keep a door open long enough, time to shut the door for good and follow through with the logistics of my self focused plan.
2-5 years minimum to see a turnaround. It will be the hardest thing you ever do in your life and require immense patience. It may be good to get out now if you don't have it in you.
I love the woman but I've worked on myself and allowed her space, DB intent is to let them work on their things by creating distance and indifference, but I see her doubling down on her behaviour, and I think for my health it's best to let her do this with no attachment in terms of legality of marriage and home. Otherwise I have to keep dealing with her on these fronts until it's complete. I think there comes a time when you have to leave for your own good as much as you want to see improvement, if there is no progress it's best to move on. I'm not in the mood to wait 2-5 years, I'm a patient person by nature but one has limits and I believe they have been exceeded. My plan of leaving the country now and starting fresh is the best option for me, both financially and mentally. One can only hold on for so long.
I love the woman but I've worked on myself and allowed her space, DB intent is to let them work on their things by creating distance and indifference, but I see her doubling down on her behaviour, and I think for my health it's best to let her do this with no attachment in terms of legality of marriage and home. Otherwise I have to keep dealing with her on these fronts until it's complete. I think there comes a time when you have to leave for your own good as much as you want to see improvement, if there is no progress it's best to move on. I'm not in the mood to wait 2-5 years, I'm a patient person by nature but one has limits and I believe they have been exceeded. My plan of leaving the country now and starting fresh is the best option for me, both financially and mentally. One can only hold on for so long.
Well you have been on this site for a month and are ready to give up so I guess the marriage didn't mean that much to you either so I suppose you can split amicably an both move on in life.
Ive been on the site for a month but this has been going on since 2021 and there was a lot of emotional and physical abuse during that period and I tolerated a lot more than any person should have. Being patient has not yielded any results, if anything it's given her the mentality of feeling enabled and having resentment towards me as in I'm in the picture still. At this point I believe for her to figure things out the consequences have to be meted and for my sake as well. The status quo hasn't helped so I think there comes a time for decisiveness
So I'm getting a little frustrated. Our mediator gave us a set of dates for 2hr mediation session to go through financial disclosures and begin drafting up an agreement, I asked her what time was best for her and I agreed on a time. I sent to mediator this request and she has not replied to mediator who asked her if that time works for her. Our house is to be listed for sale this Monday, she offered to help me clean up and prepare the home for sale, now she is ignoring my requests for this, I'm fine with this as I'll just end up doing it all myself as I expected. It feels again much like for the last many months that she isn't taking this seriously. I have my lawyer also on retainer, but I have wanted to avoid using her as I can't be blowing my brains out on the 500/hr legal fees to put pressure on her to get things done. Based on her messages to new dude, she's already talking to him about growing old with him and spending the rest of their lives together, she literally just met him
I sense she's in the cloud in the sky distraction mode again, as this is OM number 4 and her cycles of infatuation are going at a more accelerated pace now. Every time she goes through these phases nothing else in the world matters. I'd really like to avoid using my lawyer as I'll need her for rubber stamping the separation agreement stuff after mediation but I'm sensing I will have no choice as nothing is happening and she's just ignoring everything hoping the status quo continues.
On GAL front I've never felt better and I want to continue my new habits and new focus but I want to do it as far away from her train wreck as possible. I know I'm supposed to distance myself from her but this can be difficult when having to deal with a home sale and mediation where I need 100% cooperation and consent/signatures on her part. For me I feel the clock is ticking and I'm approaching 42, all of this started when I was 39 or so and it feels like she's holding me up from moving on and having a normal life. I don't believe in dating while separated and still legally married and I don't want to have any physical/legal attachments to her but I feel like she's doing the best she can to avoid dealing with things and keeping me around as her fall back while she tries man after man to see if she will find someone to replace me with. I do not want to feel like an object and although I've had hope up until recently although slim as it may be, I do not think I can see myself with her even if she changes her ways.
She has done absolutely nothing to change herself or look inwards, in fact I think keeping me around gives her someone to blame for anything that goes wrong. Without seeing progress from her part I feel I do not need this anchor keeping the ship that is my life from sailing to sunny shores.
Good Morning Catman
You are in control of your life and your choices. Do all that you can, know that you did all you could. Only you know when you reach that point.
Yeah so just found out through her login info she's already sleeping the next guy. Yeah time for scorched earth, I want to distance myself from this absolute train wreck now.
Yes, W is a train wreck. She on to OM number four. It’s obviously she is deeply hurt and desperately trying to fill that void inside her. And desperate people, do desperate things. She’s a lost soul.
However, time for scorched earth?!?
Within the wreckage lay the seeds to your future as well. How you act and behave matters. Burning it all down will affect you, just as will being kind and cordial and lovingly let go. Nurturing those seeds, like a phoenix rising from the ashes, is better than more destruction.
You are on two paths. One an emotional journey. Becoming healing, whole, and happy. The other is the business of separating and/or divorce. Treat the latter as a business deal gone sideways, for that is what it is.
While dealing with the business side, stay businesslike. Remove your emotions from the business decisions and actions you must take. Scorching the earth is not necessary to achieve separation. In fact, such a course would likely harm and impede things. And like I said, it will affect your emotional path. Harming and impeding your growth, healing, and happiness too.
So, less than the best course on both fronts.
I say fronts, for this is a battle. A war inside you. Find and make peace with the hand you’ve been dealt. Make going forward decisions based not upon emotions, for decisions based on emotions lead to regrets.
Realize doing nothing is doing something. I understand the feeling of needing to take some action or to be decisive. Yet, such is fleeting. Look to your logic and reason.
Look away from the train wreck. Focus on you and your life.
If you wish to list the house this Monday, then do so. Get it cleaned and list it. It doesn’t matter if W helps clean or not. Treat the task as an emotionless chore to get a martial asset liquidated. Do not paint your emotions upon it. Deal with your feelings, separately.
The idea is to make decisions and plans when you are calm and at peace. Give those plans a while to settle and revisit them a few times. Then, if the reasoning is still sound, implement them.
Interestingly, it’s a similar approach to our emotional path. Answers do present themselves when one is calm. Heat of the moment venting is a good and necessary release, yet seldom brings about the path to take. If anything, utilize your anger and frustration as fuel to self betterment. Sweating it out for example. Running, doing push ups, digging a garden, etc. Exercise and physical exertion is good, and brings about the very calm and clarity for those answers to seep in.
Hope you have a great Friday and weekend.
D
Than you DnJ, very kind words of wisdom. Yeah I think by scorched earth I'm referring to no more allowing her to dictate any terms or impose delays and distractions and me likely having to use lawyer to get things done. I must say I've been going now daily to hot yoga and it is by far the best possible exercise for dealing with this stuff. Between mind and body nothing compares.
Yeah I think my overall kindness has given her too much free reign to take advantage of me and I definitely have to go full business approach now
So an update. Although I didn't expect her to come and help clean up and prepare house, she did end up spending 6-7 hours helping me put finishing touches. There were some conversations but she's still defensive and still rewriting our marriage and telling me that I started arguments which is absurd but I don't bother arguing with her gaslighting. She still sounds confused and still puts out forced tears which I tend to no longer give any value to. I hinted that I'm not dumb and know what's going on without telling her how and immediately she asks if I'm talking to OM 3 about it, then she tells me he spoke to me which isn't the case. So basically she continues communicating with OM 3 while pursuing OM 4 lol. I think she likes keeping them all around as a form of a roster, I'm kind of glad I'm not part of this roster and I made it clear I am not lumping myself in with her lovers, BTW she still talks to OM 2 as "just a friend" (they work together). I basically read between the lines and see that this is her new lifestyle, having her male harem of dudes that she can jump from. She tried convincing me to get a place her after we sell but I reiterated I'm leaving and there will be no friendship. I honestly don't want to be associated with those other lovers and she pushes me to have that situation. The more time passes the more I realize I need as much physical and mental distance from her. My dignity comes above all now and I am not in the mood to debase myself for this woman. I honestly think that the only way she'll open her eyes is to lose me for good and for my own sake I think that is best as well. Mediation 2 hr session comes on Thursday and she finally agreed to appointment so that's a positive. One day at a time I guess is my strategy now and continued focus on my health and mental well being.
In an odd way I'm kind of glad she came only to remind me of the woman she is now and how little connection I'm having with her as the days go. It's a gentle and subtle reminder for me that I can do better than her and I'm not really losing anything. What once was is no longer there
There's a saying, once a good loving man finally gives up. You've lost him forever, I feel like I'm getting awfully close to this mindset
So she helped me on the weekend and because it delayed listing date by 1 day now I need her to sign an amendment for it and she's not responding to it.
She's either too busy love bombing her new supply or is purposely trying to control the situation. Seems like I have to be putting my lawyer to good use from now on for every little detail and purposeful delay
Good Morning Catman
Dealing with a spouse in emotional turmoil is like trying to herd cats. Letting your lawyer get the results certainly helps keep one’s sanity.
D
So she finally managed to sign amendment to listing and house is officially for sale. Although it took a little she ended up agreeing. Aside from that had to have a conversation to her about providing financial disclosure documents for our 2hr mediation session tomorrow. Conversation devolved rather quickly into her complaining she hasn't had enough time to get the stuff ready even though she's had almost 2 weeks to prepare them, although I prepared them today myself it didn't take me longer than an hour and a half. She wanted to postpone mediator appointment less than 24 hrs before scheduled time. I started getting upset and told her you have time for everything else but never any of your responsibilities and reminded her the mediator is taking money by the hour from our retainers, I told her and I know I shouldn't have that she has plenty of time for her lovers and she hung up. She then called back and asked me how she can prepare them, I already did her the favor of preparing all financial documents for accounts and debts with our joint names. Judging by how she's always got big time gaps on the messaging app showing she's likely with lover, I'm getting annoyed with her excuses. It really does feel like dealing with an immature child. I have a feeling every step of the way from hereon in is going to be like this.
She's so defensive of freshly minted new love interest that nothing else matters. I feel like I have to grab the bull by the horns and take control of the situation. The more interactions like these I have the more I realize I am making the right choices and I have to push on with my clear mind and determination to start my new life.
Side note she mentioned that one of my close friends' wife called her and she asked me if I told my friend anything. She's in super paranoid mode that any mutual friends know what she's up to. I know for certain my friend who I confided in with express promise of keeping it between us wouldn't tell his wife anything. It's amazing how worried she is about her reputation and her image, but doesn't see it as a sign of living an immoral life.
The more I communicate with her the more l think she has narcissistic personality disorder
Mirroring love interests character and likes
Love bombing with promises and future faking
Hooking them in with intimacy
Then commencing manipulation
Being up and down emotionally to demoralize her target
Keeping lovers around for supply of affection and attention
Protecting false image of self at all cost
Showing fake empathy to me, to make me feel sorry for her
Blame shifting and gaslighting me still after all this time
She's repeating the pattern with her lovers similarly to last year or 2 with me, now it seems she's doing it at an accelerated rate or in desperation to make sure she secures a good supply for when I'm gone
Some of this behaviour is similar to drug addicts, rationality out the door in search of the high, followed by periods of withdrawal when supply doesn't pan out as expected.
I seriously think the modern woman is incapable of self reflection, accountability and self improvement. They have been taught they can assume the characteristics of men of old but only mimic the bad behaviors but shirk accountability and taking ownership of their own mistakes. Her ignoring good friends and gravitating to enablers and validating friends shows me she's only doubling down.
I think I'm at the point mentally where I think if the opportunity arises and I can start a friendship with the right woman I feel ready for this, every day that passes just reinforces that she's looking for bits and pieces of things she had with me but I have the whole package and I'm sure someone will appreciate that.
Remember guys men like us are rare, bad boys and short flings are easy to find for women and serve as coping mechanisms but a value oriented family man with strong beliefs and moral compass are rare and we are worth more than to be manipulated and treated like objects.
Good luck to everyone else going through this. It does get better, for every door that closes a new one opens
Good Morning Catman
I’m glad she signed the amendment. Crisis folks have the attention span of a gnat. They’ll miss and flake out on appointments, birthdays, and all kinds of special and important events.
Keep your expectations dialled to zero - that includes both positive and negative expectations - and keep moving forward while just dealing with whatever occurs.
While she’s involved in an affair(s), your best course is the last resort technique. Lots of time and space. Completely pulling back. Just focus on you and your path/life. Maybe she notices, maybe she feels the loss, hits rock bottom, and decides to sincerely change; or maybe not. However, you will heal and be ok.
Everyone requires a certain level of understanding and rationalizing before they can/will let go. It’s perfectly normal. And it’s also quite normal and common to get attracted/addicted to the drama. To utilize that drama, the hot mess, to justify our path. Start to shift away from that. Justify your life and decisions based upon you, not with what’s going on around you.
That shift will likely not alter your current course too much. However, it will alter the unpinning of why. Shifts the rationalizing from why/what she’s doing to why/what you’re doing. And that fosters letting go/dropping the rope. As well as sincere permanent wanted changes of self.
The more I communicate with her the more l think she has narcissistic personality disorder
Mirroring love interests character and likes
Love bombing with promises and future faking
Hooking them in with intimacy
Then commencing manipulation
Being up and down emotionally to demoralize her target
Keeping lovers around for supply of affection and attention
Protecting false image of self at all cost
Showing fake empathy to me, to make me feel sorry for her
Blame shifting and gaslighting me still after all this time
Yep. I agree. And likely some of these are more temporary or responsive in nature, rather than a permanent manifestation of new behaviour.
Now, how about you. Dig into you and your underpinnings and beliefs. Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. Discard or alter that which does not serve. Know thy self.
Live and move forward based more upon your values and convictions and less because of what she’s doing/done. (Like I said, it a perspective thing and will pay handsomely in future dividends.)
Some of this behaviour is similar to drug addicts, rationality out the door in search of the high, followed by periods of withdrawal when supply doesn't pan out as expected.
Absolutely.
We LBS also experience withdrawal. It’s such a painful experience. With the loss of such romantic love one’s brain screams for that chemical release that once flowed so freely. Such withdrawal is likened to a heroin addiction.
Snooping, phone logs, old pictures, social media, texting, phone calls, finding reasons to interact, and on and on, all efforts to try to find our next fix to prevent our heartache and pain. Withdrawal is one of the worse experiences in life. Totally understandable why/how we don’t/won’t normally embrace it “cold turkey”.
Keep working/walking through the anger and grief. Use that gift of time well.
D
Thank you dnj, your words of wisdom are always spot on and much appreciated. I must admit this board has been a godsend for me, seeing other people go through the same trials and tribulations and putting the bigger perspective into the forefront. Almost as good as therapy.
Yeah I'm starting to detach emotionally and I really don't care much about what she does anymore, I just need some cooperation for the legal and logistical stuff I'll have to deal with soon
Sorry for repetitive posts, just trying to get out all the inner turmoil.
So today we had a long 1.5 hr mediator session putting together all of our financial disclosures. It's pretty much wrapped up with just pension valuations to come in then we can finally get a concrete agreement to send to lawyers.
I drove to her apartment to get her to sign her part of pension valuation forms and I told her to bring my favorite kitty downstairs. The poor little guy was comfortable in my arms but he was shaking uncontrollably, likely a little cold but perhaps some sort of intuition. These creatures have a weird sixth sense. We sat down at a table in lobby and signed each other's forms, these being all that remains to get agreement together. Spousal support was an option for me to receive but I opted out. She asked me when signing papers if I wanted that but I said money doesn't matter to me and that I would trade all of it just to be happy.
It was a bittersweet moment and potentially one of the last times we meet in person. The interactions were cordial and even gentle laughter like the good old times.
I came home and real estate agent who is also my next door neighbor told me to expect offers on our house likely next week and we should have it sold by end of month.
It really hit me like a ton of bricks
Nothing pulls at your heart more than knowing almost a quarter of a century of your life with someone is coming to an end. Acceptance being the most difficult part of this process, but also an understanding that I cannot put myself through any more pain, any hopes that might have been present before have suddenly vanish and an overwhelming sadness has taken over. It's even hard for me to type this out and express my feelings in words.
Thank you all for your kind words and giving me a platform to express that which sometimes we feel obliged to keep inside.
Good Morning Catman
It really hit me like a ton of bricks
(((Hug)))
There are a significant moments like that during the process. Moments of stark emotional realization and clarity.
Intellectually one knows, yet it takes some time to emotionally understand it. The process of grief. Some of one’s journey is still shrouded in denial, other parts in anger or bargaining, yet for other bits one is lost in depression.
Acceptance being the most difficult part of this process
Eventually, bit by bit, the various facets traverse through the stages of grief and become accepted. Finding acceptance is quite difficult, yet in and of itself acceptance is, next to denial, the easiest stage. Most of my efforts and struggles were in the depression stage.
Bargaining was a weird stage. Hanging on to the last thread of the old normal. When that thread is cut, when one realizes that, has that moment of emotional clarity, feels it, well the letting go of the old usually is the herald of the depression stage. Those moments hit like a ton of bricks.
By the way, the stages of grief are not linear. One usually, overall, processes the stages - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance - in order. However, we exist in all stages simultaneously. Different facets of our situation in different stages based upon our emotions of that particular facet. Therefore, depending on what facet bubbles to the surface, we move from one stage to another, and back again. Eventually, all facets do become accepted, and we exit grief.
hopes that might have been present before have suddenly vanish and an overwhelming sadness has taken over.
(((Hug)))
Another hug for you. Been there man.
Letting go the old normal and entering more of depression. Perfect healthy progress. Don’t rush it. Listen to what your grief is teaching you. Time is your companion, not an adversary on this journey. Grow and become.
Stay strong man.
D
Sorry for repetitive posts, just trying to get out all the inner turmoil.
We all need a place. Here people understand from personal experience. Journaling or to yourself isn't enough. Who in our close circles could we lay all this on?
So today we had a long 1.5 hr mediator session putting together all of our financial disclosures. It's pretty much wrapped up with just pension valuations to come in then we can finally get a concrete agreement to send to lawyers.
After each mediator session, I felt like throwing up. Each concrete step she drove toward finalizing is crushing. Oh, I can remain calm, cool, and collected during. We both have the ability to do what needs to be done in a crisis and feel later. Both by nature and military officer training and experience. After each I needed several days to regain equilibrium.
It really hit me like a ton of bricks
Nothing pulls at your heart more than knowing almost a quarter of a century of your life with someone is coming to an end. Acceptance being the most difficult part of this process, but also an understanding that I cannot put myself through any more pain, any hopes that might have been present before have suddenly vanish and an overwhelming sadness has taken over. It's even hard for me to type this out and express my feelings in words.
There aren't really words. Just questions that won't really be answered. This makes it hard to accept. We like answered questions. Why do so many decide to toss 20+ years of foundation? Why do they not see repairing and building on that foundation is the right and good option? Do they not see the grass is not greener? As a Marine friend put it to me, "G, whenever I have trouble with my wife, I see it is a "choose your hard" ." He saw his parents go through 3 and 4 marriages which did not make them happier. And if you are a Christian like me and my WW, how is this OK when marriage is a covenant of God's? I have difficulty letting go of these questions. Even though I know the questions don't make any difference in what I need to do. These questions are all about the other person. Who am I and what do I want, sans W, is the focus now. The other questions are pain so draw me in, but I think cheeseless tunnels.
g
Thanks grok and dnj, yeah I'm grounded on Christian values as well and sometimes I question God's plan for me but also realize that he closes and opens doors for us. My vows and my morals were and remain my guiding principles in my life. As regard to mediation process, I have been the one driving the bus along with every other aspect like selling the home. I am doing this not because I want to but because I know I need to, I've exhausted all of my efforts on trying to fix things and I see her continuing to cope with her inner trauma by going deeper into the darkness, looking for solutions in external sources rather than searching deep inside. She has tried to delay anything she could as of late but I am no longer allowing her to dictate a path for me which is a path I have to pave on my own.
When this all ends I will no longer communicate with her, for my own wellbeing and to allow her to finally see the consequences of her decisions and to realize the grass isn't greener. I'd think by now being on the 4th man that I know of in 2 years would have taught her this lesson but apparently she has avoided going to school.
I know ultimately I will be fine as I have mentally prepared my future path out in detail now I just need the cards to fall into place. I suspect her new guy everything is fresh and fun and I'm just the dude who takes care of the hard things be it financial, or legal. I am leaning more in the direction of exiting country and starting completely from scratch and I think I need to return to my roots to find myself fully again. From where we come sometimes we must return
Hi C. I've been following your situation and just now have some time to chime in. I admire the stamina it takes to be at the point in the process you're at (and I may soon be). Thanks for continuing to share as you go along. Thinking about the growing count of affair partners - ugh. As I just said in another post, my observation is that most affairs carry their own "punishment" for one or both people: guilt, shame, embarrassment, and more. I hope you can shift your perspective away from thoughts of her actions with other partners. Keep up the good work towards your other goals. I'm looking forward to reading along as you move forward and achieve as many as possible. Let us know how we can help from afar. Best, MrP
Thank you Mr. P. Yeah the journey sometimes although we think it's coming to an end is just sometimes the first chapter in the 2nd book that is our new life
Yeah so I just saw some communication from her OM 3 and she basically cheated on him with OM 4. SHe basically Ddid exactly to him what she did to me, unable to be loyal to anyone. Funny thing is he acknowledged that finding and being with her was his karma for going after a married woman.
Yeah this behaviour of monkey branching is definitely narcissistic personality disorder. She's treating people like disposable objects for her own gratification and love bombing her new targets with promises of grandiose futures.
I'm glad I have distanced myself as much as possible outside of business only
This is a completely broken person
Just a little update from my situation. The house is still for sale and the market hasn't been ideal to sell, I'm not ready to sell the home while leaving too much money on the table while simultaneously I mentally feel I need to sell it quickly to move on even though I'm still battling my thoughts and feelings. I have not texted or called her in 1 week and a half, I don't even check the chat log so she doesn't see if I even have looked. I feel I must do this to start getting used to what life will be like. I noticed in her social media now she has deleted all photos of me, which is fine and expected. My takeaway is that she is likely deep into OM4 relationship seriousness and is blocking out everything. This Easter weekend has been difficult for me as I spent last years Easter the whole weekend with her when we were trying to see if we could make things work, we were still living separate at the time. I've used the whole weekend to continue my alternating gym day/yoga day routine and continue on my no processed food, no unhealthy food, lots of water, lots of fruit, vitamins, supplements diet. I have begun seeing noticeable changes in my physical appearance and it has improved my mental state.
When I get negative thoughts and begin feeling emotional I will embrace it, put on sad music but use it to workout and burn off the negative energy to the point of exhaustion. I have started updating my wardrobe as much of my clothes doesn't fit now and I'm converting over to more tight fitting clothing to match my new physique.
I spent Easter Sunday with my brothers family as his son is my godson and as is tradition for us we give Easter gifts to our God kids. The STBXW is also the godmother to the boy but I highly doubt she bought anything for him and I didn't ask because I already knew the answer. I called to wish her parents a happy Easter and it seems they spent it alone. It's almost as if she's isolating from everyone who cares about her and focusing on her new enabler friends and new lover and completely ignoring everything and anyone in life. It feels like if I am to complete the separation and home sale it's best to do it while she's in this delusional fantasy state of mind.
I do have a feeling that when inevitably OM 4 doesn't work out and divorce and home are dealt with she will come back with temperature checks and weaseling her way back, for this reason I think it is best that I make the final decision on whether I leave this country permanently and seek a life back to the homeland. This will give me an opportunity to fully move forward and explore a new life while not giving her any opportunity to reach out to me.
As much as my heart is still fighting me I understand that I cannot live in this constant state of limbo between heart and mind. It's an exhausting battle that will serve me no purpose going forward. It feels like I am living in a country that no longer gives me the desire to continue here and despite me doing the GAL more it feels like I am going through the motions and it might be best that I start anew in a new scenery surrounded by family and a strong support system.
People who do not walk in our shoes will truly never understand what it is like. The only place I've been able to find comfort and understanding has been on this forum and it has helped me a great deal. Thank you all and hope your Easter weekend was kind to you
Just as I finished this message I got 2 phone calls from her. I did not answer them, I feel the minute I do it will bring me back to the emotional fight again. She asked if I was working via text afterwards but I feel although my heart wants to reply as deep down inside I do miss her but I think she just wants something from me. She asked me if I could keep the cats her for this week, likely because she's probably going on another trip with new guy but I will not reply or simply say home is for sale and I cannot have them here. It's also possible she wants to use the cats as an excuse to come over and see me, as all of the other times she has cried to me. This feels highly suspect to me.
Good Morning Catman
Employe the 24-48 hour rule when conversing with W. Give yourself 24-48 hours before responding to ensure your emotions have settled and you compose and respond from your intellect and reason rather than emotions/heartstrings/anger.
Some times, maybe a lot of times, there is no need for a response. If there are no questions, as in she is just baiting or temp checking, no response required. And you need not respond to all questions either.
As for the cats: Whose are they? Pet’s usually do not have custody arrangements. The pets are split up, or one party relinquishes their claim and allows the animals to remain together. If the cats are W’s, as I suspect they are, let her figure out her problem regarding how to provide care when she wants to go away with OM4. Accountability for her choices. Let her feel it.
Her problems are not your’s to solve.
It is also quite likely she is trying to pull you back in. Just ensuring you are placed upon the shelf.
You are correct, contact with her, especially if such contact runs counter to what she wants or expects it to, will lead to fighting. Remain dim/dark. Utilize 24-48 hours.
If you decide to reply. Be kind and cordial. Not need to toss gas on the fire. Tell (text) her you are busy and cannot take her cats. That’s it. When she bemoans “then what am going to do with them”, leave it alone. By the way, she’s using text, replying with text gives you more time to consider responses when she does a quick about face.
Be the grey rock when dealing with her and her mess. Focus on you and your life.
D
Thanks dnj, yeah I think she just wanted an excuse to come over or not have to deal with cleaning litter and feeding them so it could free time up for her new dude. I simply replied I cannot have them here as house is still for sale and I can't ensure they don't run our the door Kept it simple. Any other communications I have with her regarding the sale I have asked my real estate agent/neighbour to communicate the plan or any changes directly to her to keep me from having to do so
As much as my heart is still fighting me I understand that I cannot live in this constant state of limbo between heart and mind.
Why?
Cannot? Really? It’s impossible? Word choice colors your reality. If you say, and therefore reinforce, something is a “cannot be done” your mind will make it so.
It's an exhausting battle…
Yes it is.
And it’s a difficult one.
Not impossible.
Embrace limbo.
Embracing limbo does require realizing or setting the demarcation of one’s limbo. Limbo is only your romantic life. Hobbies, work, gal, fun, vacations, friends, family, God kids, movies, restaurants, gardening, housework, redecorating, remodelling, painting, and so on - all NOT limbo!
I suppose embracing limbo is actually embracing that which is not in limbo. Well, embracing both I suppose.
At any rate, yes it is a battle. Though why? Who are the participants in this battle? One so them is you. So, who are you fighting?
Of course, you are fighting yourself. Heart vs mind.
Divorced, a new country, doesn’t resolve this battle within.
Look to your deeply held beliefs and convictions. Those biases and prejudices are from a lifetime of experiences and interactions. Some are golden and some are ugly. Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. Discard or alter that which does not, or no longer serves.
“That which you aspire to.” What do you aspire?
Whole, healed, peace, contentment, acceptance, forgiveness?
Do you believe such? Deep down?
Discover, categorize, and organize your convictions. Those tenets of your life. Ensure you are satisfied with them and your direction of your growth. Does it serve? Ensure it does (make it so) and listen/follow your beliefs.
Those deep values are very slow to change, unlike feelings and thoughts. It’s this slowness that makes such convictions excellent heading for life (once they are organized). The foundation that can weather life’s storms.
The battle is with yourself. Fighting begets fighting. Employ a different tact. Embrace instead of fight. Let your beliefs lead your heart and life to peace.
You can live in limbo. “Can” allows choice. “Cannot” removes choice. You have choice. Do or do not.
As much as my heart is still fighting me I understand that I cannot do not want to live in this constant state of limbo between heart and mind.
This view/wording is open to more/different possibilities and opportunities for resolution. One of which is looking to what specifically is it that you do not want. You’ll likely find a piece of paper doesn’t assuage that.
Embrace your golden opportunity.
Choice. Choosing limbo makes it not limbo. That will sound odd, until it doesn’t.
D
Hi Catman:
I can't really add much to what others have advised, but I wanted to chime in just to let you know that I get what you are going through. My story is not exactly like yours, but there are MANY similarities, right down to the rapid switching of affair partners, the suspicion that I am involved with someone else, etc. (She was on her second AP within a couple of months after ending with the first, as best as I can reckon).
Your W's behavior follows a classic pattern that I have read on this and other forums, in case after case. You seem to understand what you need to do for yourself, but also that quite a bit of this is about her, not you, and that you cannot control that.
There's a saying that gets thrown around a lot here. Perhaps you've heard it. "You didn't break her, therefore you cannot fix her."
I am ten months out from BD (in my case, she wanted the divorce, not me), and I understand how you feel. But I can tell you that things do get easier with the passage of time. I am unquestionably in a better place now than I was ten months ago, even five months ago. Every time I am tempted to wallow in the past, I turn my mind toward something I enjoy: a hobby, movies, music, whatever, or I go out. It works!
It sounds like you are doing well with moving your life in a new direction, a better direction. I hear what you are saying about health and fitness. You are ahead of me in that regard, but I am trying to do better for myself, and I have seen changes. I like looking down and seeing a smaller stomach than I've had since my 20s! A few days ago my sister commented on how good I looked.
Keep forging ahead. It's all about YOU and your happiness at this point. Do not worry about whether she ultimately "gets it" or not, or what she is going through. That's not your problem.
You're going to be fine.
Thank you for your kind words dnj and sunflyer. Yes while I say I cannot live in limbo I'm referring to getting closure on my situation. I know this will come, selling the home for me is the first step and finishing mediation the second. I am not letting my situation interfere with my goals and me being busy and active, I am no longer waiting on her for anything other than to sign any good offer we will receive and signing separation. My fitness and health is first and foremost right now. It's amazing how much physical activity can affect not only your appearance but your mood and confidence as well. I have almost become addicted to converting any negative energy I have into exercise and it no longer feels like a chore. The good weather is giving me something to look forward to as now I can do things like riding bike and playing golf with friends and such. A small part of me would actually be OK with keeping the house for myself, I'm short a bit on that front but who knows if some of my investments pan out its still maybe a possibility. Going back home is not so much to get away from things here but to give me a fresh start and take a risk albeit a small one, financially it is by far the best decision, I do not want to go backwards in quality of life as I would basically be working to pay rent and owning something will likely be out of the question. I've put a lot of thought into it and it's a hard decision not to make. I do have majority of my family back home and family is a huge thing for me, it gives me a foundation and allows me to cherish that which I have very little of here.
The battle of heart and mind will always be there. For me I do not make any decisions based solely on emotions as that has not served me well in the last year and a quarter but the battle will continue and I'm OK with that, this is the struggle of life. I have leaned on faith as much as I can and it has given me a sort of stoic strength, an impetus for perseverance and a catalyst to fight through anything that comes my way. I'm a simple man and I do not require extravagant lifestyle to meet my spiritual needs. Being humble in a materialistic world for me is important above all. I feel ready for any challenge that comes my way, I firmly believe that God gives us obstacles in life to test our faith and to make us stronger, and after the last year or so I feel like I have come a long way. Whether it be passed out in emergency from withdrawal, spending a week in rehab, fighting through severe depression and suicidal thoughts, I have learned to become an optimist and realize that I have gone through the worst.
I'll likely ever go through in my life and there's nowhere to go but up.
Well a couple of things happened today. I received an offer while at work, I will admit it brought tears to my eyes as I still cherished what this home means to me and the part of my life it plated. The offer was low and I wanted to sign back still much closer to our asking price and if they don't budge I'll likely reject it.
Here is where the problem comes in, she received an email with the offer and suggestion on what to do from real estate agent and a text message from me. She acknowledged my text message. Half an hour later I spoke to agent and chose a course of action. I communicated this with her, but the message remains unread and the offer is about to expire. So it seems she is either hoping this goes away, is too busy with her new infatuation, or wants to continue to have her cake and eat it too. Although the offer is probably gonna get rejected, this is setting the tone for this whole process and is showing me how little she cares about something that could potentially have legal ramifications.
These ramifications being if there is a good concrete offer and she is avoiding the situation I will have to consider a) going to lawyer and seeing next steps and or b) going to court and proving that she is rejecting or refusing to comply with the sale
I had a feeling this would happen and it is in line with her adolescent, irresponsible behaviour . The legal route was my last resort but it seems I'm going to have to dig into proceeds of the first steps of my new future to make her do the right thing.
Good Morning Catman
Congratulations on the offer. I understand it’s lower than asking, I suspect things will pick up going forward. Here, my locale, it is a bit early for the housing market as spring is just starting to poke out of the snow.
As for W, it’s pretty common to drag their feet. She’s done similar with the mediation process and with gathering of information too. You only control you. Keep walking your path, and do what you need to do.
Yes, you have become stronger, have come a long way and overcame many obstacles. Keep the faith and continue moving forward. Walk in the light.
D
So just an update. I've been going hard on the GAL front and trying to fill my schedule as much as possible. Am much more physically active and feels great doing yoga now daily along with pre bedtime 45 minute intense ab workout, got a nice six pack going and feel great about it. Things are still difficult emotionally but not playing as much of a factor. I have not so much as checked chat log with her for a month now. Today she called me while I was driving home from nephews confirmation dinner, I accidentally answered phone via car not realizing it was her, she asks me about pension valuation paperwork, the same paperwork that I had sent into administrator 30 days ago and mediator told us could take 30-60 days. So she's basically too preoccupied in love bombing phase with new guy to do anything she should have done. Later on in the evening we get a better offer for the house. Which we spoke briefly about. As much as I tried to hold in the emotions, my voice broke while talking to her, before this she suggest we wait till fall to maybe get more money for it, I realized this would keep me in limbo longer, something she was OK with clearly because she sees physical separation as a free pass to continue on in this situation. I am not OK with this, so we ended up signing the agreement to sell the home. She suggested I don't need to leave the country because I had concerns over closing date as it was to close before we'd have separation agreement in place which would mean proceeds of sale would be held in trust by lawyers and would require I find a short term arrangement for myself. This problem was resolved as buyers were flexible with closing date and we agreed on end of June. So it seems the wheels are in motion and things are moving forward to a conclusion. Throughout phone conversation with her she kept saying I love this house. I said to her calmly it's only a house now and no longer a home. She said to me "I fell in love with the house the minute I saw it"
When I heard this I reminded her, "we" fell in love with the house, not sure why she said "i". I subtly reminded her that the home no longer has any meaning or value and I do not want any financial or legal ties to her, if any of these remained my dignity was being challenged and I want to begin living my life and I have a right to do so.
Despite these conversations it has been a really difficult wave of emotions hitting me head on but I feel it is something I must do and battle through, for my own sake and for the sake of the life I deserve to have going forward. Thanks to whomever is listening and once again I've gained so much valuable insight and wisdom from these forums that have helped me get through many of these moments.
Good Morning Catman
Glad to hear the buyers could adjust the closing date to align with your needs.
I agree, STBXW does not have her paperwork as a top priority.
Yes, emotions are very much like waves, rising and ebbing. It’s wonderful being passed where/when the waves crash over and engulf one. It’s now, allowing and exploring your feelings rather than drowning in them. The journey towards acceptance. Keep moving forward.
Hope you’re having a great day.
D
So things are moving along. WW continues to be unreliable, made a committment to be here this saturday to help box up things and separate what we have to get rid of and pick what she needs to keep. I am only looking to keep my own possessions, as in collectibles, books, my computer and my clothing and such, I have offered her everything else, I want to do a full cleanse of anything that we owned together. She then tells me she has plans this satuday, not surprising to me at all, when she falls head over heels with one of the OMs its her typical pattern, which is why things have taken longer than necessary to resolve.
The more i see this the more i feel the nudge to push forward with a completely new life. I handed in my long term leave (5 years) form at work and it was approved, i moved 5 weeks i had of vacation that i will tack into the 5 weeks preceding the closing of the home. Next week I am going to renew my passport and once i have it ready I will book my one way ticket back to my home country, i have already began making provisions for when i get there. I now have the time to take care of clearing the home, shipping some clothing and things i will need, giving things that are mine away to people that I know, people that have supported me through this time and were there for me when I was in a dark place. While this gives me some clarity and gives me set dates, it is a hard pill to swallow. My heart is torn but my mind is pushing me forward into starting a new life and leaving all of my old baggage behind.
I dont think she fulls understands that i will no longer be in her life in any form whatsoever, 5000km away, new phone number, no address to find me. She has taken for granted my presence in her life while she lives her narcissistic ego driven existence. But that is all coming to an end soon and a new chapter of my life shall start.
So just a general question which can garner probably a simple or complex answer. Throughout the last few months as the process of separation has moved forward and home sale as well, she has gently tried to open up to me and incould sense she was doing this with caution as she was likely getting a temperature check on how I was reacting. Mind you while she did this I would check her messaging dialogues to see where her head was at and if she was carrying on with the same behaviours with OM. I tried being courteous and subtly reminding her that happiness is something that we find within ourselves and looking for it in external sources is not a solution nor does it bring us closer to happiness in the first place. One recurring thing in these conversations was always her suggestion that we somehow remain friends after this is done. Every time I made it abundantly clear that I cannot be friends with the woman that I loved for more than half my life while she's in serious relationships with other men. I do not want to be her shoulder to cry on about the results of her poor choices and bad coping strategy.
A small part of me wants to leave the door open in the future for that being a possibility but only if I see dramatic change and purposeful betterment of herself. I don't want to straddle this fence too haphazardly.
For anyone whos gone to the stage of divorce what has been the most effective approach. Mind you we do not have kids together so there is no need for any further communication. For me its less about knowing how her life choices are going and more to make sure she is ok and not completely destroyed. I believe in karma but it is not something i desire on her, i did towards OM3 because he tried sabotaging reconciliation and he ended up getting a healthy serving of it. This concern for her remains mostly because of the 8 grueling years of failed IVF and coming to the conclusion she couldnt be a mother and I think that coupled with turning 40 created a perfect storm for her having a full blown crisis of which she is coping in the worst way possible.
In terms of healing I feel it is best that at least until I get grounded in Europe once I leave here I should not communicate with her in anyway as me focusing on my new job and reconnecting with family will be a much needed change for me first. I do have a sense that for the last year and a half reality has yet to fully hit her in the face and although I've pushed to move things forward and warned her last year the next flight I take will be one way, it seems by her behaviour she never saw this as a legitimate possibility, likely because she's also living in a blind fog of infatuation from om3 to OM . When I actually am gone, house is officially no longer ours, and legal separation documents are signed and finalized I have a strong sense she will feel the reality of everything being over and losing me forever and I suspect a nervous/mental breakdown is extremely possible. There is no way someone can delay coping with so many things happening simultaneously in the real world that they can hide or run anymore.
I feel like in a catch 22 as in i dont want her life to completely fall apart and even if being together is no longet a ppssibility i dont want her to come out of this destroyed for the rest of her life but i also dont want to expend unneccessary emotional energy when ill be likely still dealing with the emotional reality check that is uprooting my whole life, career, home, end of marriage
Her reaction to all of this could all be projection based on how i am feeling and how reality is starting to hit me of everything happening and maybe transposing my emotional state into her mindset is likely an impossible task, as i dont even think she knows where she is mentally outside of the infatuation fog.
So just a general question which can garner probably a simple or complex answer.
Not sure I understand the question-Is it leave the door open or not?
Why make any decision at this point?
Keep living your life and don’t waste time-life is short
I guess my question is should i refuse her request to have any friendship after divorce is final or leave that as a slight possibility in the future depending on her behaviour
I'll stick with my previous answer.
Have you read the pursuit and distance thread?
Stop pursuing, let her pursue you, you are a prize!
Im definitely not pursuing her. She just left house took a whole bunch of useless stuff from my house, considering shes living in a condo and she has a storage unit, shes going to fill up storage unit with stuff shell never go through and sort, much like she still has stuff at her parents. So shes going to carry all her baggage like a gypsie, and the more she takes the more i can make her stay stuck with memories of things we owned together and im quite easily a minimalist that will only store necessities in brothers garage in a corner and will be free of any attachments. And considering I’ll be 5000km away across the ocean with a new phone number she wont even have a way to pursue me. I am just debating whether i should even leave the door open to future communication. I think that is only even a possibility for me if she ever realizes she [censored] up and changes and thats not to even physically let her into my life again.
Funny thing i got a fresh haircut and hair dye to get rid of greys this week and I came home to her here ready to sort things and i purposely came home in tight fitting workout clothes from my pilates class and i could see her checking me out but I pretended not to notice. Sure feels empowering and for me a subtle way to remind her what shes losing as I’m in the best shape of my life by a mile and by being indifferent I’m letting her see how little I care about whats left here and looking forward to move away. Shes still in the fog with new guy so its a great way to pawn off all the useless [censored] to her and to get cooperation.
See the difference between men and women most of the time is a man will typically be alone and will take all the hurt and pain he is forced to endure and will take an emotional hit in the beginning and then redirect the energy to bettering themselves and improving any lacking areas. A woman will cope by using external affection and validation to feel good and put off the reckoning of the reality of the situation to when the damage is done.
Im going to let her experience this first hand without any influence. Best way to make someone value what you were while living by the seat of their pants of emotional rollercoaster is to fully extract yourself from their life.
I must admit I'm glad i came on this board, the GAL approach really should be the only approach. Not only do you set yourself up for success going forward but you also make the straying partner feel your loss, both physically and emotionally.
I guess my question is should i refuse her request to have any friendahip after divorce is final or leave that as a slight possibility in the future depending on her behaviour
If she brings up being friends after divorce I'd respond with something short. Like: "That's not a possibility for me."
Then walk away.
Remember, the more you engage with her the more damage you do. Be scarce. Be mysterious. As Cadet alluded to, the more you stay distant, the more she will wonder why.
Answer honestly. I'd guess that you don't know how you'll feel after a divorce is finalized. Feelings change along the way, including yours. You may not want to be friends. It may be best for you to move on and heal. Or you might not care whether you're friends. Do you know?
Good Morning Catman
You do not need to make a firm decision about the future. Looks like you are trying to decide black or white.
It’s ok, and possible, to love someone and yet not like them. If/when STBXW brings up future friendship say/think along the lines of:
My friends don’t treat me this way.
It answers the present moment of friendship with how she is currently behaving. And informs her (and you) of your boundary on such disrespectful behaviour.
Yes, the door is therefore open a crack. You might close it later. Or you might not. Leave the future to unveil itself as it will. Deal with the present moments.
D
Yeah the only way the door stays open even a Crack is if there is dramatic change and remorse for everything she put me through and the behaviours she continues destroying her entire life with. That being said I am not letting any of this phase me in my direction and decision making. I'm exactly 2 months away from leaving the country for good, separation agreement should be in place before house sale closes firm and then I can take care of the divorce remotely as needed. I've made it clear I don't keep friends in my life that do even a fraction of what she has done to me, I truly do think Noone of this has hit her reality yet, she truly needs to lose me physically, emotionally, legally, all ties cut to actually realize what she is losing. Seeing her communication with OM4 has shown me her true self and any words she says to me are hollow, also seeing this has made it easier for me to realize there is no willingness or effort to work on herself or any of her behaviours. I am perfectly fine not having any communications with her in the future but the only slim chance is nothing less than a complete reformation of herself, I do not see this happening until she is on OM 5, OM 7, and so on. She will have to learn first hand that a man like me is rarer than any broken soul she gets attention from.
Answer honestly. I'd guess that you don't know how you'll feel after a divorce is finalized. Feelings change along the way, including yours. You may not want to be friends. It may be best for you to move on and heal. Or you might not care whether you're friends. Do you know?
The friend zone is the last place most LBHs want to be with their XW. Even the ones that think that's what they want are miserable when that's what ends up happening.
Besides, "I hope we can still be friends" is just something that WAWs say to cushion the blow. Very few of them really mean it. Better to say the expectation up front that you do not want that.
I sense the wanting to be friends is less of her wanting to cushion things and more about having a source of emotional comfort having me in her life. In narcissism speak this is called keeping supply around, I truly sense she knows what shes losing because she hasn't been able to replicate it elsewhere, and in her moments of honesty has said as such and told me she really [censored] up. I don't feel a need to have her in my life in any manner but I also understand that when everything is done and I'm in a new environment those feelings might change, but not in anyway to have her entire my life in any meaningful way. I have purposely not sought out a new partner and have worked on myself first and made sure all ties and attachments with her are cut before I even open my heart to someone new. I have taught myself to not have any hate towards her and still pray for her well being as im a person of strong faith, but I also understand I cannot have her influence in my life. I guess striking a proper balance is the key for me, but being in a different country and surrounded by family with a new life ahead of me will put me in an ideal situation to succeed.
Just some musings and getting stuff off my chest here
For those who went and finalized divorce, how were the 1-2 months leading up to the finalizing of everything?
When was the peak of emotional torment and height of depression?
I know I cannot and should not turn back in any way, everything that i am doing is for the best outcome for my wellbeing but when does the stress and bitterness finally wear off?
I feel like im putting so many things on my shoulder all at the same time but i also know the band aid must be ripped off. It feels like an accumulation of everything is collecting all at once, i know i will feel somewhat better when im at least surrounded by family in a new environment and everything is done, but what did you guys find worked best to get into a proper state of mind to get over the final hurdle?
Physically and socially ive kept as busy as possible under the circumstances but my mental state seems to be all over the place.
Sorry if im all over the place, sometimes its just hard to get my thoughts down in a concise and cogent manner.
That being said i came across a relevant quote that struck me when thinking of the waywards and mlcs
Happiness is like a butterfly, the more you chase it, the more it will elude, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder
This quote really hit me because the year I found out she was having affairs, we went to a butterfly sanctuary in Aruba and i have a picture of her with a butterfly on her shoulder. It reminded me that she is chssing happiness when the happiness she is chasing is something that she had and could never replicate. Sometimes the life you have can give you all the happiness you desire if you chose to live in the moment and time
Hello Catman
For those who went and finalized divorce, how were the 1-2 months leading up to the finalizing of everything?
When was the peak of emotional torment and height of depression?
I went from BD to divorced in two months. BD is a grand announcement at T-Day supper where W throws away the kids and me. Three hours later she’s gone to live with OM.
At bomb drop, utter shock, I was dumbfounded. Completely stunned. Days of “WTF happened? What am I going to do?”
Couple of days post BD, I cancelled credit cards. About a week in I saw a L regarding my will. Turns out, I couldn’t legally do anything when situation was/is such a state of flux. However, speaking with L, I recieved information about remortgaging, my best case scenario, as well as my worst case, and the likely case. Found out what is mandatory in a settlement and what is negotiable. (Information is power.)
My emotional torment continued until I received an email from my L during the kid’s Christmas concert (2 months after BD) that STBXW had signed the agreement. There was so much uncertainty until then: Could I keep the house?; Where would I and the kids live?; What about my pension? How much alimony any I going to have to pay? She has zero income so I would receive zero child support; and so on.
Once the settlement was signed, things were more settled. The agreement still had a one year cool down period before it could be send to the courts to be finalized. So, a bit of nail biting for the next while too. XW jumped the gun and forwarded the agreement on month elven. She even paid the court costs.
Once the legal/business side dust settled so did the emotional torment regarding living and providing for me and the kids. Certainty brought peace and financial security/protection.
Counterintuitively, embracing uncertainty for my emotional healing path brought peace. Unlike the business side, the emotional side required letting go of my ego, the need to be right or know or predict or have answers, etc. It truly was: Answers will/do present themselves when one is calm.
I found forgiveness for XW two months into my situation. Forgiveness for myself took about six months more. (Oh, her poisonous words were difficult to transmute.
)
Anyhow, after a hellish nightmare in which XW was being eternally tortured and licked in flame, I bolted awake. At 2:00am, I fell to the floor, in total darkness, on my knees, and begged God to forgive her for she doesn’t deserve such a fate. Oh my, the hubris! Me, a mere mortal, telling God who should be forgiven.
In that moment, I realized I had forgiven XW. I gave her and her path to God. He is much much more wise than I. He will know what she deserves.
I also realized, I do not know enough to judge her. I cannot see all ends. Heck, if I had her upbringing, perhaps I’d be lost in a horrible crisis. I’d like to think not, however that’s my ego talking. That need to be right and in control. Set that side, and I can see how fortunate I truly was and are.
Still, XW is not given a free pass. Forgiveness is not that. Forgiveness sets you free. Free from needing retribution or retaliation. It writes paid in full on whatever invoice your heart is holding. It lets one unburden that heavy yoke of holding a grudge. And believe me, grudges are heavy! You forgive and still hold one accountable for their actions.
My depression? Oh my goodness.
My grief had very little anger. At first, I was full on in denial. So much happened, it was so unbelievable. Then word choice realization and revelation - me thinking and saying unbelievable makes it so. So, I was dumbfounded rather than it was unbelievable.
I found being accurate in thought and heart is very important to progressing and healing well. I worked to keep my heart soft and squishy. I did not want a hardened heart.
I did have bargaining. lol. Such a strange landscape. The stuff we promise God and ourselves to just have things go back to how there were. Ah, bargaining, the last vestige of the old normal. The harbinger of depression.
Depression is when one finally realizes the old normal is dead and gone. Depression take time. I spent a long time in depression. And then one day, one moment, it starts to be over. There is no warning, no bells or trumpet, it just happens. Depression will take as long as it takes, and will not be done one second sooner.
Of course, like all stages of grief, the delimitation is rather nebulous. I floated back and forth, in and out of depression for a while, before I realized I was much more over being depressed than being depressed.
I can still recall walking my dogs. It was another bland, gray, day. Another chore. Trudge trudge. But no. I heard something.
I heard a bird singing!
Oh my God! And yes, God! Thank you!
Bird song. I hadn’t realized how gray
the my world had become. You’ll likely notice the strikethrough in the previous sentence. The world was still the same, my view changed.
Along with hearing birds again - and by the way it was months and months of not hearing them - color! The world exploded in color! Green leaves. Brown bark. Blue sky. White clouds.
Holy cow! I had forgotten.
Depression is dark and black. And I walked my way in it and through it. My best advice, and what I did, figure out your heading. What you believe in. Not feelings, not thoughts. Your convictions, your values. Those beliefs are slow to change and therefore make excellent headings, once they are organized. After all, we all have prejudices and ego and such to purge/let go of.
Like I said, it takes as long as it takes. I was working. Commuting two hours. Looking after the kids. Paying the bills. Buying food. Buying cars. Helping with university tuitions. All solo.
Working to be a lighthouse. A living example for my kids. Having many open honest discussions with them. By the way, they seemed to get through their depression faster than I.
Was there a high point of depression? No. Not really. That’s the depression part. You sink into depression, and then it’s flat. Same same. Day after day. It feels unending. Of course, it isn’t. Although it feels differently. Ha, feelings are fleeting. Let them flit.
Without some high point, or summit, one has no reference where they are in their depression. It’s just flat. No idea of how far left to traverse. Except, one day less to go than yesterday.
when does the stress and bitterness finally wear off?
When you find forgiveness.
There are different forms of acceptance. One could find a resigned acceptance of their lot in life. You get through your grief, yet still kind of resent where you now are.
I like a forgiving acceptance. Finding a peace and contentment with the hand you’ve be dealt. Nothing is so bad that it couldn’t be worse. I used to remind myself of that back when slogging through the mess. It’s quite uplifting in a weird sort of way. lol.
Sure, my present path is not what I had planned. Yet, I’d not give it up. There is a golden opportunity in all this. An opportunity few people, thankfully, ever get. And even fewer truly embrace.
what did you guys find worked best to get into a proper state of mind to get over the final hurdle?
Letting go.
Not defining the hurdle.
Ha, I’ve got a lot of inner zen.
Remember, embrace the uncertainty.
When you make things a hurdle or problem, you set yourself and the stage that way. You now have to solve or overcome it. And fighting begets fighting. Hurdles and struggles, fight back.
Instead, come at things sideways. Certainly solve the business stuff. Then let go, let it wash over you, find your inner self, your convictions, and follow them. Regardless of the pressures of society or social media or well meaning friends.
An example: For better and for worse, til death do us part. We all likely said that in our vows. Or something like that. What does that mean to you? And be careful, us humans have a near infinite capacity to reason our way around things, especially things we don’t like.
To me, the meaning is pretty clear. So, I am being single. And plan to remain so. Not dating. Not looking. And not a widely held viewpoint either. Lots of folks have tried to help me see the light. “Life too short. You should have fun. And so on.”
Yes, life is short. So live it well! And fun/happiness comes from inside.
Of course, that’s me. You need to find your path. Your convictions.
Sometimes the life you have can give you all the happiness you desire if you chose to live in the moment and time.
Look who’s all zen-like. Well done. (Drop the sometimes by the way. It just is.)
D
Thanks dnj, yeah im finding myself going through the different stages of grief and depression at a quicker rate now.
I too found myself asking God to help her and ive only asked of one thing from God for myself and that’s the strength to get through this and to be kind to others even though its easier sometimes to go back into my shell
I think whats made this extremely difficult for me is the fact we had a reconciliation attempt, she’s said things to me like shes sorry she hurt me, during R she said thank you multiple times for fighting for us, told me she loved me. Then after failed R shes had moments of opening up to me and apologizing somewhat sincerely but then gone back to chasing her other life. The thing that showed me i needed to put an end to this was when she started saying to me she thinks no one will want her, when it clearly seemed things weren’t going well with OM3 and i realized she was making me the shoulder to cry on when her poor life choices weren't working out.
All this back and forth has messed up my healing process, top it off with her delaying and delaying every step of the business end of separation, house sale, etc. Like she clearly wants another lifestyle but she wanted to keep me there on a short leash and this turned everything into a complete cluster*.
I had to start putting an end to the pendulum stuff because i knew she was reverting to the same pattern of keeping me as a backup like she did before our R attempt.
Ive studied so much about narcissisim and npd and during marriage something always felt off. Like arguments out of the blue followed by normal days like nothing happened the day after, verbal abuse followed by demand to initiate sex right after. It felt like torture.
I so feel some closure now in seeing that she likely has npd, like basically you are an object to them and seen as just a source of supply and nothing you do can fix them, it is who they are for life. They go through idealization, devaluation, discard cycles with partners, and seeing her do this with om3 going onto om4 and the patterns repeated like clockwork, I realized I had to end this for my own sake.
I guess for me now focusing on the light at the end of the tunnel gives me somewhat of a vision of the future and new life I'd like to have and at least these thoughts are dominating more than the thoughts of what was.
In the end the only way she'll ever properly value me is not having me in her life and the only way I'll regain a closer semblance to my full self is to do the same
The days aren't easy to get through but I'm only 1.5 months away from it all being finished so I guess I have to remain steadfast on that.
Thank you for your experience recap it gives a good perspective from someone who's gone through the whole thing, although all our experiences aren't exactly the same, the self care and personal work required is as close as it can get.
So an update.
2 days ago, i send her 2 messages
first one is "I need you to bring the big luggage so i can start packing"
second message "Can you use the actuary the mediator recommended to get your pensiion valuation because we arent going to get it on time and separation agreement wont be readiy by house closing"
STBXW Replies : "From now on dont send me these messages. Its been a year and a half since we split up. Please only message me if its in regards to the house or finalizing the divorce. If you are having a hard time please reach out to a friend or your conselor. Thank you"
Now this message seems heavily coached, and i wouldnt be suprised if shes been playing the victim card to new guy and he had a hand in crafting this message for her. Like this is how you deal with your troublesome ex.
This kind of stuff is infuriating to me. Ive been trying to get her to either work on marriage or sell the house last year and since march of last year ive been trying to sell the house so i can move on. Ive had agreement papers thrown in my face to sell house. Ive had 3 month delay on destroying embryos. Delays on mediation documentation, now shes delaying taking her things from the house. At this point house closes by end of June and shes barely taken anything from the home. Im now considering getting the lawyer involved as its becoming ridiculous that i feel im dealing with a child.
Shes skiritng her responsibilities and if this house isnt clear by closing we are liable to being sued by buyers.
Just the sheer audacity to send a message like that to me.
So an update.
2 days ago, i send her 2 messages
first one is "I need you to bring the big luggage so i can start packing"
second message "Can you use the actuary the mediator recommended to get your pensiion valuation because we arent going to get it on time and separation agreement wont be readiy by house closing"
STBXW Replies : "From now on dont send me these messages. Its been a year and a half since we split up. Please only message me if its in regards to the house or finalizing the divorce. If you are having a hard time please reach out to a friend or your conselor. Thank you"
Now this message seems heavily coached, and i wouldnt be suprised if shes been playing the victim card to new guy and he had a hand in crafting this message for her. Like this is how you deal with your troublesome ex.
This kind of stuff is infuriating to me. Ive been trying to get her to either work on marriage or sell the house last year and since march of last year ive been trying to sell the house so i can move on. Ive had agreement papers thrown in my face to sell house. Ive had 3 month delay on destroying embryos. Delays on mediation documentation, now shes delaying taking her things from the house. At this point house closes by end of June and shes barely taken anything from the home. Im now considering getting the lawyer involved as its becoming ridiculous that i feel im dealing with a child.
Shes skiritng her responsibilities and if this house isnt clear by closing we are liable to being sued by buyers.
Just the sheer audacity to send a message like that to me.
She probably is being coached by someone...
Doesn't really matter though , in the long run.
The analogy that I've always used is that the WAS anger is like the boosters on the Space Shuttle...
You know, they have the auxiliary fuel tanks strapped to their side during take off, and once they get to a cruising altitude the tanks drop off...and the flight gets much smoother..
Anger is much the same....
Anger is severe whenever there is a "push away" from the spouse...
She needs much more fuel to push away from you, her old life, her demons in her head....
She needs more fuel to justify getting a Divorce, which i'm certain at some point, she swore she would never do....
She
needs you to be this person to justify her decision to leave...
She
needs you to react the same way that she pictures you in her head....
She
needs you to be that person so that she can look at said friends and say...see ??
Because how dare you be different ?
How dare you not be the person that she has described ??
As far as her belongings ?
She knows the dates, she knows the deal....
You can't fix or change it for her.
It's either out by the date ....or it's in a dumpster before the date.
A former wise poster here gave me some great advice a while back....
Every time they hit you with a load of bullschidt....
Hit them back with a load of reality...Stay your course, because that is who
you want to be...
Not because that's who she made you into....
Good Morning Catman
Yes, W is dragging her feet. She’s not embracing responsibility. Not really new, is it?
Her response to your two messages is likely coached. Oh well. Doesn’t matter. Gives her someone else to blame (other than you and especially herself
) when/if things go awry. The whole not embracing responsibility theme she’s got going on.
You asked. She responded. And not too favourably for getting things done.
First off, go buy yourself some new luggage. I’m guessing your separation agreement doesn’t spell out who owns the luggage. If she has it, let it be her’s. Don’t sweat the small stuff, you got enough on your plate.
The house is sold. Closes end of June.
“Can you use the actuary the mediator recommended to get your pension valuation because we arent going to get it on time and separation agreement wont be ready by house closing”
Yes, time is ticking by. I’d speak with your lawyer about a couple of things.
If her not providing documentation is going to derail the house sale or the separation process. Also get legal proceedings started to ensure she complies if required. See what needs to happen to ensure the sale.
It does sound like the house sale is happening regardless.
if this house isn't clear by closing we are liable to being sued by buyers.
W might get her act together. Or might show up on hour elven with OM and a bunch of his friends and toss her stuff in the pack of some pick-up trucks. Or she might completely flake out. Speak with your L and see how these scenarios affect you, legally. Can you be sued? What are your options if so?
I’d run this idea by your lawyer, and if ok be prepared to do so. A week before closing (or even now if L says it’s ok), rent a storage shed. Move her stuff into it. Pay the storage rent for one month past the closing date. Have L send her the key and a letter telling her where her stuff is. Wash your hands of her stuff and her irresponsibly towards the sale.
D
Yeah I'm basically communicating with lawyer now and seeing what my options are. The luggage thing doesn't bother me its a minor trade considering im letting her take all the electronics and furniture. My biggest concern isnifnseparation isnt done by junen28th the proceeds of home sale get held in trust and it delays my one way trip. I sense she is trying tonexert whatever control she thinks she has over me or is purposely trying to frustrate me to get a reaction. All this does for me tbh is to be more resolved in taking the path ive decided to take
The more her mask slips off the more i know im making the right choice
Sidenote : just picked up book meditations, based on the writings of marcus aurelius
Great book so far, teaches one to take on stoicism traits and focus on ones self
Hey Catman. I am just catching up on many other situations. I recommend leveraging your attorney at this point. As others say and you seem to recognize, the luggage isn't a worthwhile hill to die on. The pension valuation is a different and more significant matter, much like the house. I'm not sure about your location, but the legal divorce process in my state starts to eliminate opportunities for any party to drag their feet for too long. They want most divorces done in under a year, drive couples to mediation (including having independent appraisers and actuaries involved if necessary) early in the process, and judges expect a draft settlement well before one year from the filing date. Let the process take over here to get these things done and shift the pressure to your W so that you no longer need to reach out to her. Maybe I'm misunderstanding where things are at in your situation and need to re-read the thread.
I'd also add that her response to your text is odd. I don't see you reaching out to her for comfort or contact. You were trying to conduct business (aside from the luggage request perhaps). Turning things over to let the D process run its course has been one of the best actions for me and gotten my W to see 1) problems still happen for her when I'm less involved and 2) the reality of what divorce is likely to bring is less rosy than the fantasy.
Best wishes on all of this. Meditations is great BTW!
Thanks mr P
Yeah im approaching the finish line and ive already consulted lawyer, mediator, real estate lawyer and even if stuff is not done on time i can do it all from across the ocean. For me now its more to cut all ties and get money from home sale. I have the legal leverage rn, juet avoiding using lawyer too much if not necessary. Trying my best to be civil and project what she might do so i can act accordingly. I gave myself 5 weeks vacation preceding closing of house so if she doesnt do things as she needs to im capable of dealing with the logistics with plenty of time. I am just not in the mood to be doing her responsibilities for her. Pension valuation i can pay out of pocket for her valiation through actuary if need be but i dont want to give her any copouts or do any of the lifting for her.
Her text response imo is purely her showing her new man that shes a victim
I can read her like a book now and i still have access to one of her social media accounts which she has no clue about, which is helping me read the situation better.
Shes just trying to manipulate as much as she can and her mask slips a lot more easily now. It seems to me she wants to exert control still even at this stage.
STBXW Replies : "From now on dont send me these messages. Its been a year and a half since we split up. Please only message me if its in regards to the house or finalizing the divorce. If you are having a hard time please reach out to a friend or your conselor. Thank you"
Filter heavily. I translate messages like that to this:
STBXW Replies : "
From now on dont send me these messages. Its been a year and a half since we split up. Please only message me if its in regards to the house or finalizing the divorce.
If you are having a hard time please reach out to a friend or your conselor. Thank you"[/quote]
Every message you send should start like:
"To help ensure the divorce is finalized on time" then add the specifices such as " , XY and Z are needed"
"To help ensure the house sells by " then add the specifices.
One of the best things I learned was this :
"If I don't hear back from you by "this date" I will do "this action".
as well as giving two choices:
"To help ensure the house sells on time, I have boxed up your things. Let me know what day you would like to pick them up and I will leave them on the porch. If I don't hear from you by next friday, I will donate them to goodwill. Regards, CatMan"
Has anyone ever considered how big of a roll personality disorders play in these situations. Like all of the stories seem the same here, build up a good life, everything seems fine for a while, hit a rough patch in the relationship and the person bails for reasons that dont seem logical or worthy of breaking up a marriage and family. Is it just possible that we are all empathetic people dealing with Cluster B personality disordered spouses?
Is it just maybe possible while the DB strategy is great, working on yourself is great and improves ones own life, but if you are dealing with someone who sees the world in a self driven identity and perception of the world and relationships that maybe we are fighting against something that is changing us to be something for someone. While we are forgetting that we deserve happiness, respect, affection and compassion. Like at what point do we stop bending over backwards and dedicating our lives to someone who doesnt share the same values as us and lives their life with one goal and one sole purpose - to use others for their own personal gain without adequate compromise and selflessness.
Like all of these stories seem like we are dealing with either Bipolar or Narcissistic Personalities and we are trying to force someone to be something they cannot be, a personality disorder makes someone who they are this way for life, while we can conform and contort to please them, they dont see reality as we do - with empathy and kindness. Could it just be that tbey try to conform to what theyve been taught and what they see as being normal and approved by society, but they are really not being themselves and pretending to be someone they are not, and eventually they get tired of faking the characteristics that make us good human beings, and they give up and do what they feel and what they want to make themselves happy. No matter if its at someone elses expense and even at the expense of their lifelong well being. These people are disorderly and they sometimes need a trigger to be who they are, be it mid life, post partum, social media, bad friends and enablers.
I think sometimes we are not meant to be with people who dont love us as we deserve to be loved.
I haven't came here and posted in awhile because the board is nothing like it use to be but I popped in and saw your post and thought I would give you my thoughts on what I have learned.
Has anyone ever considered how big of a roll personality disorders play in these situations.
This is a typical response from a LBS. If a LBS diagnosis the WS with a disorder, MLC etc. it makes them less liable for the breakdown of the marriage which makes it easier cope.
Like all of the stories seem the same here, build up a good life, everything seems fine for a while, hit a rough patch in the relationship and the person bails for reasons that don't seem logical or worthy of breaking up a marriage and family.
You see the thing is because you don't want the D no answer would satisfy you. The simple answer is she lost respect, attraction and desire for you. She doesn't want to live her remaining years with someone she doesn't respect and desire.
Is it just possible that we are all empathetic people dealing with Cluster B personality disordered spouses?
Possible but highly unlikely.
Is it just maybe possible while the DB strategy is great, working on yourself is great and improves ones own life, but if you are dealing with someone who sees the world in a self driven identity and perception of the world and relationships that maybe we are fighting against something that is changing us to be something for someone.
You should never change for anyone. Your goal is to become the best person you can possibly be and that will attract the right people to you.
While we are forgetting that we deserve happiness, respect, affection and compassion.
100%. You will know you have reached your destination when you get to a point where you will not settle for less.
Like at what point do we stop bending over backwards and dedicating our lives to someone who doesn't share the same values as us and lives their life with one goal and one sole purpose - to use others for their own personal gain without adequate compromise and selflessness.
That point should have started at bomb drop.
Like all of these stories seem like we are dealing with either Bipolar or Narcissistic Personalities and we are trying to force someone to be something they cannot be, a personality disorder makes someone who they are this way for life, while we can conform and contort to please them, they dont see reality as we do - with empathy and kindness.
You should never try to force anyone to be something they are not. If you do this than you have plenty to work on in the near future.
Could it just be that they try to conform to what they've been taught and what they see as being normal and approved by society, but they are really not being themselves and pretending to be someone they are not, and eventually they get tired of faking the characteristics that make us good human beings, and they give up and do what they feel and what they want to make themselves happy.
Your STBX wants to feel loved and desired like most human beings do and for whatever reason she was not feeling that with you. I am not necessarily saying that this is all your fault I am just trying to get you to see reality.
I think sometimes we are not meant to be with people who dont love us as we deserve to be loved.
100%. You will truly understand this even better once you heal, move forward and find it in the future. It takes time but you eventually get there if you are open to it.
Thanks boat. I am not voiding myself of any responsibility for breakdown of marriage, perdonality are legitilate things that affect how people perceive normal relationships. During relationship i constantly and repeatedly asked myself if this was normal, if the endless abuse followed by pretending as if nothing had happened the next day. The impossible to meet demand for more attention, to a point where any more eas physically impossible. To then seeing her go through the npd cycles of relationships in real time with new partners, the love bombing (idealization), abnotmal mirroring, future faking, followed by having arguments when their target shows any faults, the impossible task of showing any form of empathy or accountability, the blame shifting and smear campaigns of ex partner, the enabling friends, not being able to keep friends long term and finding new ones constantly who validate them
I looked up many psychologist papers on npd and clinically diagnosed npd psychologists listing all the traits and behaviours of someone with npd and they match down to every single trait then im pretty sure i am not imagining what i experienced. While many of us have narcissistic traits and it is a spectrum, the personality disorder is the way the person sees the world.
Until you live through each and every trait of this disorder you never truly understand how destructive the behaviour actually is.
There are people who go through crisis and haveba difficult time and make bad choices. Many end up having some sort of self awareness. But one cannot dismiss such behaviour as typical as it is not.
Its hard to detach ones self from the reality that approaches us day by day. Watching my home get emptied of furniture or any small item brings back memories of moments. Something as simple as looking out on my back patio, no longer seeing the table and canopy where i vividly remember making our weekend breakfasts and enjoying the tree cover and bird chirping as we would enjoy the moments of m serenity after unwinding from a long week. Or fixing together a dinner, setting up the candle lights and mosquito torches, putting on some soft dinner music and enjoying each others company at the twilight of the day. Sitting on the lawn chairs by the firepite enjoying the warmth of the burning wood while sitting under the hanging lights and just enjoying the simple pleasures of life. Seeing the living room furniture gone, the place where everyone gathered for opening christmas presents and sitting together and watching a movie until half the audience would fall asleep covered in warm blankets. No longer seeing a dinner table that would always be full of abundance and good laughs, people singing happy birthday, enjoying a day long prepared meal.
Now walking around the home and hearing an echo of what once was a vibrant, life filled, warm inviting environment, seeing it reduced to an empty shell, a vessel of what once was and can never be again. Watching the grass grow tall, the weeds overgrown, the perennials beginning to bloom, with noone to enjoy the sweet fragrance of the season that is to come, to see the flowers vibrant colours opening for a sign of hope and life. Only to sit there with no audience and no appreciation for the gift of the beginning of a new life for the year.
These are all things that you never appreciate fully until you realize they are disappearing from your mind and your life, like a blurred landscape in the rear view mirror of your car that is your life, slowly moving away from the distance as you continue your path in the opposite direction, except with the understanding that you will never be able to visit the place you have just left. It becomes a memory once vivid and real but now vague and foggy.
Many of these things can describe the struggles and battles we have to fight in this life, sometimes we feel we have someone there to get us through them, but in the end we have only ourselves and God to aid us in this journey. Hopefully as we drive away from this life we find a sunset past the horizon and see a new light for a new life that is destined for our journey. One must stay steadfast and continue this path with an open mind and an open heart and use the experience from the place we are leaving behind to chart a new destiny.
Good Morning Catman
These are all things that you never appreciate fully until you realize they are disappearing from your mind and your life, like a blurred landscape in the rear view mirror of your car that is your life, slowly moving away from the distance as you continue your path in the opposite direction, except with the understanding that you will never be able to visit the place you have just left. It becomes a memory once vivid and real but now vague and foggy.
Yes, we often don’t feel we fully appreciate it until we lose it. Ah, feelings. Let them flit.
One’s immutable past lives on in their memory. Yes, it does get somewhat foggier, although I wonder how clear and fog-free folks see their present moments too. Our life, our cars, the rear view mirror is tiny compared to the front facing windshield. It’s perfectly fine and normal to gaze in the mirror and upon one’s life and loss; just don’t get mired in it.
The windshield is full of wonder. Be present and live in the current moment. While planning to the future. Around a corner or over a hill is something new and not yet explored. Be there. Live it. And look back fondly every now and then.
Living in the future, one is anxious. Living in the past, one is depressed. Living in the present, one is calm and at peace.
It’s odd how much I thought, I felt, I was loosing back then. True, I have lost some things. W’s company and companionship for example. Yet, lots remained, and I’ve gained. On the whole, much more positive and better, than loss and negative. And for a long while, I felt much like it would be opposite.
Life’s windshield, life’s progress. We do accumulate present moments, better when we are more present in them. These moments become our ever growing immutable past. Appended on what we already have. Slowly, more and more better “new” times take their place in that rear view mirror. Altering that landscape. Part of the process of acceptance, of becoming whole and healed.
Have a great day my friend.
D
Thanks for kind words
Continuing thread in part 2 as this one has become long:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2949883&#Post2949883