Here again part 9

[25yearsmlc]

I'll have to look into that 25. Thank you.

I'm really not thinking about the future because it overwhelms me right now.


Understood. Truly. All you "need" to do is deal with today/this week. My new mantra about things I cannot handle right now is, "that's for future 25 to worry about..."

The site I mention is a help - Just knowing others are in your boat, who happen to be witty.


Train- H said in the conversation there's nobody else. I said you can look at me and tell me you haven't been around town with another woman or been talking to someone. He said nope. I Just said I'm not stupid H and didn't say anything else.


I don't get this.^^ On one hand, you out and out ask him a question you know will not result in an admission.

And I thought you said you had proof. If so, what's with not telling him, and stopping the nonsense?

Why even ask him? What would his admitting "yes there IS an OW" do for you? And what are his continued denials doing?

If you have no solid proof, AND you also know he wants out of the marriage, I'm not clear on what difference it all makes now.

Especially since it's what he harps about all the time.


He told me that he only left because he couldn't be with me because of how I think of him as a liar and a cheater and that's how I really think of him.



yawn...is Ground Hog Day over yet?

He said I was calling him every day calling him a liar and a cheater. I didn't respond. Because I know that's so far from the truth.


I didn't want to get into the OW conversation besides but you did - and I'm not arguing about it.

I'm just confused by your insistence on discussing it or thinking about it now, with or without evidence. Please explain to me why it matters now.

This man is out the door. He is AWOL. He also lies, which you know for a fact.

I'm so sorry to be dense on this but What specifically are you fishing for?



-
If I see them out or get more evidence then I may change that.

to what end?

[25yearsmlc]

T3

this is what you wrote earlier




So I have confirmation of H and OW. It's the boss daughter. H said he was working today = lie. He is out with her on his motorcycle.

I also checked the phone bill after this and he was texting while in our home this weekend.

So yes he's not committed to our M or making strides, but the last we talked

he just needed space so he could figure out why he feels this way and that we would figure things out.

Him taking space didn't mean it was a bad thing he just needed some time to himself.



SO THEN a few days ago he said he wants out, is done, and is already moved out with some "visitation" and wants his family fix whenever he might later on...

T3, check out the ... site NOT b/c I'm harping on you for being a chump, but b/c you are too mired in the minutia right now to see straight. Not to mention you are exhausted.

Step back. Plan the next week/month or 90 days,

as if h is a possible, but unreliable babysitter whom you may be able to use, along with more reliable ones.

And take back your life.

[Train]

Now that you've let that cat out of the bag, my personal opinion is that it changes things. You have to be a lot stronger, a lot firmer and a lot more consistent with boundary setting and enforcement.

[T384]

I really enjoy how ...articulates herself. It's quite entertaining. She says mostly all of the things you wonderful people here have already told me over and over again.


I'm in a difficult/weird place. H still came here last night. I wasn't home. Didn't tell him of plans or anything. We don't typically hear from him all day. Last night he text me around 7 to tell me he had 30 more minutes before he would 'head my way' I responded 'no need to come by tonight, the boys aren't home right now anyway'. He never responded. He ended up going to my house around 830. He text me around 930 asking if the boys and I had dinner or if he should get something. I just said 'yes we've eaten' and didn't talk after that. I didn't come home with the kids until 1am ... we were st a friends house about an hour and. A half away from home. I came in showered the boys and put everyone to sleep. H came in to say goodnight to me and that was it. He left this morning to take the boys to get their haircut. Asked if I wanted to come I declined the invitation.

So legally as per the L I met with I cannot stop him from coming here. I can change the locks but he can change them right back. Even if he doesn't financially contribute this is still his house. So I've told him not to. One. He still does. Do I just keep saying no need for you to be here?

Side note : my dad and H are super close like I'm sure I've mentioned a million times. Throughout this entire process my dad hasn't said 2 words to H about what's going on. He said it wasn't worth it and wouldn't make a difference and I agreed. Well I guess my dad and H had an hour long conversation here last night. Well not a conversation. It was more my dad just getting everything off his chest. He said he feels better having laid it all out for H last night. He said H didn't say much besides yes okay and that there wasn't someone else. My dad basically just told him he was given the gift of a lifetime to come back into our lives. The grass isn't greener it's mowed differently. That he may be happy now and for a few years but that he will regret his decision for the rest of his life. He will forever change his relationship with his boys and that the happiness of this new life he thinks he's creating will fade. He told H not to come back last.time that he would do it again. Basically just a ton of stuff. He said he knows it doesn't make a difference but just wanted him to know all this family stuff is stopping. No more boat trips fishing trips with my family no more dinners hanging out watching sports. He said I love you H but I love my daughter more and my loyalty and our families loyalty is to her and the boys. We cannot support you in walking out on her a second time. You think my relationship with her mom is how you two will be ? You are very wrong. You are walking out on your family a second time with annewborn. All of these relationships will come to an end. You think everything g is going to be okay and life will continue on the way it was you just won't be married. You are very wrong about that. All the things we have done all the family outings we have done are because SHe has asked us all to include you for the sake of her family. Just remember that. He said he was very nice but very to the point of you are about to see what you're life is going to be like. The last few weeks are no clue of what it's going to be like that's not reality.

I know it does nothing I know family shouldn't get involved. I didn't ask my dad to do this. He is a big part of our family and he and my H are or we're pretty much best friends. I know he's not in. A place to absorb anything but I know it was important for my dad to get his feelings out. If it causes more harm so be it.

So I need to figure out how to enforce these boundaries. I'm going to take the boys out for the day after they get home from haircuts. I won't invite H but if he tries to come?? Just say I don't think that's a good idea? I suck at this. Last time it was easier because he was never around and never wanted to spend time with the kids if I was there

[cadence]

{quote]I'm going to take the boys out for the day after they get home from haircuts. I won't invite H but if he tries to come?? Just say I don't think that's a good idea? I suck at this.[/quote]

You know this. Calm, cool, and collected boundary setting.

"No thank you. Have a great afternoon."

or

"I don't think that's a good idea."

or

"We talked about this already. You made a choice and things will change as a result of that choice. We'll see you soon. Bye."

[Ginger1]

Your dad laid everything out beautifully. What he said is exactly what it should look like.

How do you enforce these boundaries? Well, you set up a parenting schedule you both can agree on. he has his time with the boys and you have yours. And it's not at his whim. Present him with a schedule that works for you and offer him to make adjustments where needed. This will let him really know what life is going to be like. No more family time with you, the kids and your dad. Just him and the kids in his allotted time. Having to arrange work and OW to see his kids properly and care for them on his own.

It is the reality of divorce. he needs a taste of it.

Out of curiosity, when this happened the first time, why did your dad feel he was going to do it again?

[T384]

Thanks ladies. He didn't ask to come. He asked S9 where we were going and S9 asked if he wanted to come but he declined.


Ginger- my dad said that because he saidvleopards don't change their spots. He said things would be great and then life responsibilities and reality would set in and H would always be tempted by the easier option. H told him he se again. He learned the grass wasn't greener and he would spend his life making it up to us.

[25yearsmlc]

T3

glad you got something out of ... Yes it's similar to what we hear here, except it's a lot of very witty 2 x 4's.


I'm fine with your dad's comments as long as you realize it'll change nothing.
Your h has been down this road before. He gambled before, and almost lost the most important things in life, a loyal partner, loving children, a home and future...

and he's throwing it away b/c something INSIDE him which you cannot fix, is still broken.

He wants someone else to fix him, which is ultimately impossible. Since you "failed" - -which annoys him greatly - and which he resents - he needs another person to make him feel good about himself, but will not admit this...

At some point the new R will also end (OR he will stay & be miserable in the new R, just to avoid having to admit blowing up your family for nothing. That's some karma).

Sure, I like to think years from now your h will recall your dad's words. Maybe at divided holiday times or when he's single again or when he sees you with your new man in a r in which you are treated well, without emotionally sucktacular games played,

OR he can pull the MIA 'dad' who misses out on 90% of the efforts of raising kids, but who shows up at public reward times (i.e. public achievements & celebrations) , to play the role of a loving involved "father".

Good news! These ^^ are problems for future T3 to cope with. Not today's T3.

TODAY my question is, what is the purpose or role of said "boundaries"? You have already said he comes and goes as he pleases. You seem to be saying you have no power/options.

What's your L say about your rights and options?

What is your goal?

[T384]

Hi 25 - my dad and I both know it won't change anything. My dad just wanted to get some of it off his chest because he's so heavily involved in our lives.

So my goal - well I am here because I don't want a D... I don't say to save my M because I don't want THIS man. He is broken. I want the man I committed myself to, the man I married, the man he's been since we R.

My goal is for my boys to grow up in an intact family.

I am fearful ... scared... anxious... really really feel like this IS it... that because this is the second time. There is NO coming back for him. His actions are speaking so loud.

I feel everything I do just pushes him further away. I was gone with the boys all day. He was out looking st houses while we were gone (he doesn't know I know that). He came home and I had the boys getting in the car as he pulled up. I offered for them to stay home with their dad for the night. He said no they can go with you they'll have more fun. I didn't acknowledge. He said see ya later T and closed the door and we left for the night. We're going to stay at my moms tonight I've tried to make myself very scarce around him. We've probably exchanged 20 words in the last week if that.

Like I said L said I cannot force him to not come here ... he can come and go as he pleases. Also IF I have asked him to stay the night to help with the baby (like I did last month) it defeats the purpose of now asking him not to stay.

My dad said the same.... yes he's not really helping here but he is coming here like I asked. However we had agreed it would only be 2 days a week on mondays and Wednesday evenings. It's now turned into almost every night UNLESS he has other plans. I don't take it as a positive sign he's staying more. He doesn't even keep a toothbrush here or wash his clothes here.

We don't communicate about anything there's no discussions of plans he just comes and goes. I never know if he's coming here or not. The last two nights he did text me he was on his way but prior to that he would just show up.

This is and isn't similar to last time. The main difference is last time he wouldn't be in the house if I was here. So if it plays out like last time he will stop giving me money if I piss him off. I can't afford that right now.

So my dad said I just need to eat the [censored] sandwich I'm being given and just let him come here and let him keep paying everything. So that's why I've made myself scarce. Didn't go home til 1 last night and saw him maybe 5 minutes total today. Tomorrow I'm taking the boys on the boat so we will be gone all day and don't be home til late. Then he will be at work all week so I won't have to worry about anything until next weekend. S9 has a soccer tournament. This will be our first time around all the parents since H left. I'm a little anxious about how this is going to go because I'm not sure if I should let him drive with us. It's out of town and would be nice to have his help with the tent and coolers but I know the other dads would help me. Not sure what I'll do

[sandi2]

I'm just catching up on the latest. I agree 100% with the things your dad told your H. Will you support what your dad said, by not allowing your H to join in the family's activities? By "family activities", I mean anything that involves you and the boys, or you and your relatives. He has to see that he doesn't get the best of both worlds. From this point forward, "family activities" will mean him and the boys without you and/or your relatives. That's how it works when divorce hits a family unit. Like most waywards, he clings to a fantasy of what he thinks it will be like in the future. He'll leave his new love interest just long enough to run over to your house and play family? Not if you are the smart woman I believe you are! As someone pointed out........now that he knows you are aware of the OW, it changes everything. Speaking as a former wayward spouse, I don't know how to stress the importance of this enough.

Among one of the first hurdles you'll face along these lines, will be if/when one of the kids invite him to join whatever plans you've made. Knowing the state you've been in for a while, I see it confusing you about the best way to handle it. You need to talk to the boys and tell them not to be asking daddy to join in the activities that you (or your side of the family) plan, don't ask him to stay for dinner, or to spend the night.......or anything. Tell them that you will not be attending the activities that daddy plans to do with them. Maybe some of these ladies can share how to have the talk......but you cannot allow your wayward H to partake in your family (which includes you with the boys, and/or your relatives) activities. I so relate to the things your father said to WH. I hope you will support your father's words, and not get all confused about where you need to draw the line on WH and your family activities. He failed to read the memo of how things change when he drops his current W and exchanges for another model.

Although some may think this sounds punitive, that's not it at all. (Although not intended, who cares if he feels as if he's being punished?) You have nearly lost your mind, worrying over what he may think and feel. We are talking reality of divorce, here! I have witnessed some wonderful couples who divorced and maintained a friendly (but detached) connection. Even in those cases, they did not share boating trips, or a Saturday afternoon "as a family". The only time they showed up for the same event were weddings, funerals, graduations, hospital emergencies, and maybe sports. Even then...... they stayed on their side of the street, if you know what I mean. There were no shared holidays, traditions, birthday parties,, etc. Each parent had their own party with their side of the family for the kids. No more shared vacations or weekend outings. That's crazy. Things like adultery, divorce, and remarriages end these things being shared like the family unit they once were,

(Sorry, sweetheart, I'm truly not trying to see how harsh I can be). I know your heart is broken. I also know you have been vulnerable for several months. You are far from being stupid, you are just vulnerable).

WH doesn't get to cherry pick the parts he wants.......and show up for the fun stuff and playing "One Big Happy Family with the W and Kids". He has made his choice, and it had nothing to do with what's best for the kids. How dare him! It had everything to do with what he wanted. I don't know how you stopped yourself from slapping his face. (Loved your response, btw). Anyway, you've already tried that "family activity" route with him, and he came and went whenever "he" wanted......and still ended badly. Well, the law may say he can come and go where the house is concerned......but I bet it doesn't say you have to let him tag along for whatever you have planned for the boys away from the house, or whatever event your relatives have. Listen, he will try to make you feel guilty about the kids, b/c that's how waywards operate. Please, don't succumb to him trying to make you believe you can, or should, continue acting like a family and doing things together with the kids. It is only his selfishness talking. The audacity! He deserves the rude awakening that lays in store for him. Not only that, but he needs the rude awakening. He doesn't want it.....but he needs it. There may be just a little window of time for him to get a tiny preview of the new life he's bought by sacrificing this family. Indeed, he thinks he will get to continue doing just like he's done since you were first aware something was up with him. And I am not saying this to get your hopes up. I am saying this for your own good (God, I sound like a mother!) and it will be for his own good, b/c he is messed up! Wasn't it the daughter of his boss (or similar) the first time? That's just too creepy, and if I was your mother, I would be saying just what I written.

You may not realize it, but I gave him more slack than just about anyone I remember on the board. You wanted the M to work so badly, and when one thing failed I would come back with "okay, then try such & such to see if you get better results". I hoped upon hope he would come to his senses. As an older lady once told my heartbroken daughter, "Honey, when they have a new pu$$y, they have no common sense".

Please.....PLEASE.....follow what your father laid out to your wayward H.