It *is* all about the confidence, and doing some work on yourself -- be it physical, spiritual, or intellectual -- can amp that up considerably *if* you do it from *exactly* that position and not be expecting validation from your mate. Even if you were already "street-f*ckable", there's nothing like knowing you've *earned* your self-confidence back as opposed to chanting "I'm so special" self-esteem mantras in the face of the perceived evidence (negative or non-existent feedback from your mate).
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I think you know that the drunk sex is bad, it's not what you really want. You've told her you want more and the only way she's going to believe you is if you no longer accept less. That simply means say no to the sex you don't want.
It *is* all about the confidence, and doing some work on yourself -- be it physical, spiritual, or intellectual -- can amp that up considerably *if* you do it from *exactly* that position and not be expecting validation from your mate. Even if you were already "street-f*ckable", there's nothing like knowing you've *earned* your self-confidence back as opposed to chanting "I'm so special" self-esteem mantras in the face of the perceived evidence (negative or non-existent feedback from your mate).
Okay, I agree and disagree and here's why. It goes back to what I was saying about having only so much life energy and being willing to invest only so much in your marital relationship. If you start investing more in "yourself" as opposed to "your relationship", you will make yourself more "street-f*ckable" because it's as though you have stopped throwing money at a stock that hasn't paid dividends in some time and you are building up some ready cash supplies. For instance, if I spent an hour at the gym and bought myself a cute t-shirt instead of cooking my 2bx a special dinner and buying him a little present, I invested life energy in a way that made me more "street-f*ckable". Of course, I could walk into a biker bar carrying a pie and try to trade it for some c*ck but I would almost certainly generate confusion rather than desire.
It seems to me that StormChaser is probably already quite "streetf*ckable" and not lacking in confidence. He just needs to understand that sexual economics are very sensitive to merchandising and slapping an ugly red discount sticker on yourself won't help matters. For instance, if he wouldn't have to get a woman drunk in order to get laid in the Schnarchian bar he shouldn't "pay" that price for p*ssy in his marriage either. In fact, I would recommend "acting" like your LD spouse is some stranger in a bar when you are thinking about getting laid. If I went into a bar and some strange dude gave off the vibe my 2bx gave off when I was thinking about getting laid, I wouldn't have dreamed of approaching him. Every one of my feminine "seek someone reasonably 'safe' with whom to have sex" alarms would have sounded. I got sexually hurt in my marriage because I turned off those alarms when I said "I do."
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think you know that the drunk sex is bad, it's not what you really want. You've told her you want more and the only way she's going to believe you is if you no longer accept less. That simply means say no to the sex you don't want.
Can you do that?
It is difficult due to the fact that I've been starved for so long, then comes the opportunity to have not only sex, but mind blowing no restrictive sex. Everything goes. Yet its alcohol induced.
In the past, this wasn't a problem because the "going out" sex was usually peppered with in between sex. It was an added bonus.
Its hard drawing a line in the sand and enforcing boundaries - I have been more vocal in my concerns, but as everyone here knows, actions are louder than words.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
My best advice to you, Storm, is to create some emotional distance between you and your W. Find things outside the M that interest you and fulfill you in other ways. Work on making yourself happy, finding out what it is you are passionate about (other than your family and sex). STOP pursuing her. You are only turning her off and devaluing yourself in her eyes (and in turn, losing respect for yourself).
I'm glad you responded, Corri. I actually have the No More Mr Nice Guy book and I'm a part of the forum there - what you say does make good sense and is emphasized repeatedly over there.
Quote:
She is in the position of power in the R, and I bet you she doesn't want to BE there... hence her LDness.
Which I find odd, you'd think with her position of power, she'd be MORE sexual. But I do agree, as much as I think I'm the alpha male here, I probably give off a vibe of insecurity and I'm sure she picks up on it.
Quote:
And you inform her, precisely, of what you are doing.... i.e.,
"wife... I love you. But I'm not pursuing you anymore. I'm working on me, getting a life, finding my way. I have no intention of staying in a sexless marriage for the rest of my life. I'll hang in there as long as I can. I am a healthy, vibrant male, and I will be having sex, with someone, at some point in my future. I'd very much like for it to be with you."
Again, this is highly stressed in the NMMNG book.
Quote:
Period. End of discussion. Go about being you and recovering your sense of self. She won't believe you at first. Be kind, be caring, but completely DROP HER as the center of your universe. YOU are the center of your world. You have invited her to share it with you (currently you are begging and pleading that she share it with you... ewh, gross... huh?)... do NOT accept crap sex, drunk sex, or emotionless sex. If she does initiate at some point and it doesn't feel right to you... stop it. Tell her... 'no thanks.' Out of respect for yourself.
When she started this new job and the subsequent promotions, I did feel as if I lost being the center of attention, the main focus of the house. For the first time in her life, she feels valued elsewhere besides home, her opinion counts, people listen to her and she's in a position of superiority.
Quote:
Her desire is her problem. You've made it yours. She's going to have to figure it out on her own... and you are going to have to let her.
Thanks, I didn't see that.
Quote:
The one fear you need to overcome is her leaving you. No, it is not the desired outcome, but it wouldn't be the end of the world, either. <-- When you know that... and you do all that other stuff above... you will regain your manhood and place of leadership in your family. And lo and behold... she may be the one who starts worrying about YOU leaving her.
I thought long and hard about this and something popped into my head while I was laying down: I remember a time when her and I were dating (actually living together not married). We hit a rough spot and decided to take a break. I was devastated. All the furniture was hers, so when her family helped her move out, there was nothing but a wire stand with a TV. No kitchen furniture, no sofa, no bed, nothing. For a month I grieved, sitting in an empty place, wondering if I should commit suicide, all kinds of stupid thoughts going through my head. One day a coworker told me he was ditching some furniture - it was really nice stuff, too - so we brought it to the apartment and it actually looked pretty good. Then I decided to paint the walls, then found a cheap decent bedroom set, then someone else gave me their kitchen setup. By the time I was done, the apartment was completely changed to the way *I* wanted it. Well, I wind up running into her and we got to talking, she came back to the apartment and was completely amazed at what I had done.
We wound up getting back together obviously. But months later she confessed that she was incredibly hurt - not by our breakup, but by the fact that I managed to move on and completely turn the situation around. The fact that not only did I recover from the breakup, but that I got some balls and DIDN'T contact her and focused on myself made me more attractive in her eyes. (Finding some other womans clothing in the apartment probably helped as well).
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
But months later she confessed that she was incredibly hurt - not by our breakup, but by the fact that I managed to move on and completely turn the situation around. The fact that not only did I recover from the breakup, but that I got some balls and DIDN'T contact her and focused on myself made me more attractive in her eyes. (Finding some other womans clothing in the apartment probably helped as well).
Same here, except genders reversed, and I was almost ten years into the M when we separated. When I finally focused on ME, he decided he wanted to get back together. hmmm
So what is the conclusion we draw from this phenomenon? I think Corri is right in that you have to separate yourself more from the currently enmeshed R. The problem I have now is how do you do that and still stay IN the R/M? Since we have been back together, I find myself having a harder time not enmeshing with him again. Falling back into old patterns.
I don't have any real advice for you other than to say it is a very common problem and you are certainly not alone.
MJ, I do appreciate your perspective and the way you offer it with such a quirky twist. But you of all people should know hindsight is 20/20. When you decide to stay in M you are in, it just doesn't matter what you "street f*ckability" is. Plus, that is no measure really of sex in a long-term R. I'm sure if I stuck it out with the guy I dated when S, we would eventually have our own sexual problems as well. Granted, not as extreme as my current M, but no R can sustain that level of sexual responsiveness as it does in the first year or so. Apples and oranges.
Could it be that the HD partner has to come to some level of acceptance of that reality? That maybe sex once a month after a few cocktails is not the end of a M? That is doesn't mean as much as we like to think it does?
Then again, I'm probably talking myself into a viewpoint that I don't truly believe in and am totally full of sh*t. But heck, I gotta get through the days too ya know. I think RJ might be the most grounded one on this issue. She has a "steady state" that I envy. Attitude adjustment may be in order for quite a few of us.
Your two scenarios are discussed at length in The Passion Trap. I can tell you, as a woman who repeatedly got caught in R power struggles, it was incredibly eye opening to me.
I realize it is the most recent book I've read, so it's spilling over into all the posts I make. However. I have to say, this 'phenomenon' happens in almost EVERY relationship, and it is the closest I've ever come to finding my shrink's advice in book form... so that is why I am so high on it.
If y'all think you did some head nodding during the reading of SSM... I think you'll do the same with The Passion Trap.
LFL, the distance, in TPT Book, is called creating Healthy Distance. There are a lot of other strategies in there, and many of them we have discussed here at length. But it goes a bit further in showing you why the strategies are important, and why they work... if you stick with them.
It also examines different personality types, and why some people tend to be chronic One Ups or One Downs in all their relationships...
Okay... let me climb down off my soap box here... ehh... ahhh... okay, there we go.
You'd think with her position of power, she'd be MORE sexual. But I do agree, as much as I think I'm the alpha male here, I probably give off a vibe of insecurity and I'm sure she picks up on it.
Wow... that is a guy thought if I ever heard one. Don't 'genderize' your wife. POWER is NOT an aphrodisiac... at least not to most people. Maybe if you are in non-emotional sexual encounters, or you are doing role playing and what not... but think about it... rape is an act of aggression... of POWER over another...
POWER has no business in the bedroom. It makes relating to one another on a vulnerable level completely unbalanced... truly... it just WON'T happen, unless someone forces it. It makes for horrible sex. (Again, unless you are role playing, etc., and then, it really isn't an imbalance because you've both agreed to it).
The kind of power you are referring to is sensing... the person in the R who determines whether there will even BE an R. The person who decides if they are going to emotionally engage or leave.
Can you even fathom the pressure on the person who is in this position? Would you want to be that person? Does that even sound like a healthy, balanced R to you? I personally want to be involved with someone who is equally vested in the R with me... not someone who I look to to RUN the R for me. Or not.
This women and power thing. My guess is that women (especially LD) have trouble GIVING up power, because this makes them vulnerable. Kind of like a guy has to make himself vulnerable to seek sex. When your vulnerable, often bad things happen. Would it be correct to say that a womens response to not liking the feeling of vulnerability is to eleiminate the vulnerability by taking charge, to seek POWER over everything. And like wise, the guys response is ofen to go into his cave and avoid vulnerable situations? Does this equate to a powerful women having a lot of insecuritites?
This women and power thing. My guess is that women (especially LD) have trouble GIVING up power, because this makes them vulnerable.
Hmmm... kind of. Especially if the R imbalance has gone on for a long time. In order to bring the R back towards balance... a One Down practices Healthy Distance, and a One Up practices Trial Closeness. The One Down experiences 'separation anxiety,' while the One Up experiences 'emotional engulfment.'
Quote:
When your vulnerable, often bad things happen. Would it be correct to say that a womens response to not liking the feeling of vulnerability is to eleiminate the vulnerability by taking charge, to seek POWER over everything. And like wise, the guys response is ofen to go into his cave and avoid vulnerable situations? Does this equate to a powerful women having a lot of insecuritites?
Depends on the personality type, situation, etc. I don't think your wife TOOK power. I think you gave it to her, and continue to give it to her because you will NOT, under any circumstance, leave the R. She has no healthy anxiety. She can dish out whatever the heck she wants, and you will TAKE IT, and she knows it.
For you, even though you will not leave the R, SHE doesn't have to know that. But you've allowed her to know that. You can do things that create healthy amounts of anxiety... but you don't do that.
You keep HER in the One Up position... which actually makes you the covert One Up. You have her paralyzed. And I wonder why you do that.
