It's been a while since I've posted, but last summer these boards really helped me get a sense, I believe, of what is going on with my wife, and I will always be grateful for the insight and support gained here.
Overall, I have done pretty well at PMA and GAL. For several months now I have moved from "how do I get my marriage back" to "what is best for me?" and "how can I grow as a person?" I have done pretty well, despite the pain, and I can honestly say this separation has been one of the best things that has ever happned to me. I've learned so much about myself, love, and life in general.
Still, this week has been tough emotionally. It's an unexpected drop on the rollercoaster we're all on, so my sitch isn't any different. I'm feeling rather down at the moment. Perhaps it was having to move yet again to a new apartment (this time in the same complex) due to my dogs disturbing my old neighbors. Something about the instability of home right now really got to me. Where is home? I know where I live, but where is home?
Also, today I went to the house to check on our dogs, and I picked up a few more personal items. It hurt to see so much of my life thrown into boxes. I'm letting her have the big furniture, etc. and taking out a few mementos and personal things. Even unpacking a few neckties she bought me over the years made me unexpectedly cry.
I know I can't control her, etc and I feel immense empathy for what seems like a lot of pain she's going through. I feel regret for my own failures in the marriage, but I'm not beating myself up for a past I cannot change. I really do know that we can only live in the moment.
Here's what I've suddenly found myself asking this week. Does she really want the divorce? Do I? In December she asked for the divorce (via email! How's that!!!) I agreed, and for several weeks I really was at peace with that idea. Been married 11 years, together 18. No kids. We split finances in October when I decided I had had enough of her spending like crazy. So, all that's left is to decide on the house and the value of joint furniture.
Here's my issue. She's asked me a couple of times via email to give her a figure, and I've asked her a couple of times to do the same. Neither one of us is willing to go first, yet. What could this mean? Does it mean that I am not at peace with the divorce? Have I really put behind all desire for reconciliation? Or is this just a temporary mood swing that we all have at various points? I realize through therapy and my own reading how abandonment issues have shaped my life, so perhaps it's that old demon flaring up after I had kept it under control pretty well since the June separation.
What about her? I know the futility of asking that question without getting an answer straight from her, but this week I can't resist the temptation to wonder a bit. I had gotten very good at giving up trying to figure her out once I learned a great deal about MLC, but this week that temptation to wonder came back. She's not filed papers yet, and doesn't stay after me for a figure. She'll raise the issue, but then let it be for quite a while. Since December she's only asked a few times for a figure (I don't recall the exact total, but less than five times). She said in one brief phone conversation in late January that she was hoping we could get this done quickly, but her actions seem to suggest otherwise. Could she still be uncertain about the D?
Throughout the separation we've had minimal contact, and no relationship talks. She is simply running. After 18 years together, all I get is an email saying she wants a D and can't forget the past. Oh well. Can't control her, as we always say.
Thanks to anyone reading--it helps just typing this out--and to anyone able to offer support and/or insight. I hope you are able to find some comfort and joy on this painful journey.
Bruce, sorry you are still here. Not sure what advice to offer you.
My pastor told me the other day, when you are not sure, then pray. It will come to you. The praying he told me to do was rote prayer - like the rosary. Almost like meditating. Just empty your mind. Don't think about it directly. No analysis. Just feel it. Just wait for the feeling and it will come to you.
Maybe not in 10 minutes, maybe not in 10 hours or 10 days. Maybe it will take 10 months. But the answer will come to you. IF you are quiet and patient enough.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Thanks. I needed to be reminded about the importance of just being still and letting things unfold. So much of life is beyond our ability to see and/or control, that sometimes it's better to just let the feelings flow and not try to figure things out right this second. Make it a good day.
Here's my issue. She's asked me a couple of times via email to give her a figure, and I've asked her a couple of times to do the same. Neither one of us is willing to go first, yet. What could this mean? Does it mean that I am not at peace with the divorce? Have I really put behind all desire for reconciliation?
While I read bits and pieces, I have not read everything about your sitch, so if I miss anything, I plead ignorance.
My basic reaction is that if she is the one who wants to divorce, then she is the one who has to start the process. As for the more emotional aspects. My guess is those questions are somewhat rhetorical.
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Could she still be uncertain about the D?
Don;t ask her,. She will might give you answer! Again, this is her deal, she is the one who has to start it. The only caveat I have is that if it begins to negatively affect you (and I am thinking mainly financial here), then you have to decide what you want to do to protect yourself and your assets.
You do sound like you have your head screwed on pretty straight. And you have the right focus. As for her, you get that it is her gig and you have no control over that. Good luck.
Thanks. You helped me a lot last summer, and your recent post helped as well. I have been doing well overall with detachment and focusing on my own personal growth, but this week several things coalesced to produce feelings of sadness and loss that I hadn't felt in a while. No catastrophes, but a few things that created a very emotional few days. I feel better today. Just some more ups and downs on this rollercoaster, I suppose, and I am sure there will be more.
IMP, I also want to thank you for a post in the summer in which you told someone that a beautiful moment for you came when you put down the relationship books and started reading just on personal growth to focus on being the best person you can be. I am glad I read all the relationship books I did read this summer, but for the past three months or so I've focused on Buddhism and other literature about how to live a full, happy life. It has felt great to do so. You are a wise man, and I thank you deeply for your insights.
How did your fantasy football teams end up? I was 2-5 at one point but thanks to Tony Romo I ran off a five game winning streak and made the playoffs, where I promptly lost in the first round as Romo started to tank at that point.
Sorry to hear of your sitch. Sounds like you've really done some great work on yourself and reclaiming your own self and space, even though there is still great deal of loss. It's so hard when the LBS has no clue what is going on inside for their partner. It sounds like you've had quite a bit of success with yourself in giving things room and taking care of yourself. I understand the desire to want to ask her directly about things, but I'd be inclined to steer around this one. Keep doing the things that have been working to strengthen you as a person. You sound like a caring and thoughtful fellow who is just doing his best to navigate through a very painful and difficult path. Sorry I don't have any other words of wisdom to say, but I want to give you some support by hearing you.
Creflo Dollar wrote: "When I was a child, and chose my teammates, I would say, eenie, meenie, miney, mo...." But this is different. You are speaking marriage. Therefore, go to your Secret Place and listen to that inner voice. I would make a list of advantages and disadvantages for divorce. Plus, please keep in mind that a divorce is final. If you're asking us for advice, perhaps you're not ready yet?
At this time, I am happy that you are more at peace. Yes, it's not easy, but miracles happen.
Thanks Tia. Your point about me asking for advice as a sign that I may not be as ready as I thought I was has really inspired me to reflect on this some more. I am more at peace than a few days ago, but am still feeling uncertain about whether what I'm feeling is a temporary and "normal" part of losing a marriage, or holding on for something because there remains a part of me that still believes in our relationship. The D was her idea, and when she asked for it I was at a point where I felt that continuing to hold out for some willingness from her to work on our challenges was now pointless.
I still haven't seen any behavior change since she asked for the D. two months ago; let me add that we don't live together, and haven't for nearly eight months. She's not indicated a willingness to talk about the R, or go to counseling, etc. I haven't asked her to do either of those, however. All summer and fall I signaled a willingness to talk whenever she wanted, and she never took the offer.
She doesn't seem to be running headlong into the D, however. So, that has me wondering if I and she really do want this. At the same time, I am fully aware that there could be other explanations for what is (not) happening here. I learned this summer about seeing what we want to see in life, and how that often leads to incorrect answers, so maybe this is another case of that. Ah, the tangled emotional and intellectual webs we can weave out of these situations!
Thanks for your reply. We separated in June. After reading books by Michele and a ton of other people, and reading these boards, and going to therapy, I realized a lot about myself, love, relationships, MLC, and life.
First, I see many of my own failures. I learned very early on not to ignore my own role in this problem. I was guilty of not articulating my emotional needs in ways that she could understand, of not understanding her emotional needs in ways that I should have, of taking the relationship for granted, not adjusting well to changes at work, and then blaming her for those problems. I have wondered if I was dealing with a type of depression. I was lethargic, constantly tired. We became roommates with little contact beyond talking about the logistical matters of the day. It was a slow drip of drifting apart. I have many failures that I didn't see before or tried to rationalize away in a need to be "right," as men often have. Believe me, I have learned that there is no objective reality, only emotional needs that we are in tune with or not.
I also see patterns of control, emotional manipulation (if you love, me, you will do as I wish) and criticism from her that destroy/inhibit connection and problems in the way I dealt with that criticism. I see ways in which she withdrew rather than try different approaches with me as I was dealing with some of my problems (as Michele writes so well about). She didn't clearly articulate some things I feel should have been made clearer, such as what she meant by love and what she needed from me to show love. (Here, too, it's two sides of the coin, as I could have been better in trying to draw her out).
I see issues from her childhood, and mine, that affected our relationship--her lack of self esteem, and my issues with abandonment. I also see how some of her anxieties and issues from childhood set off some of my issues from youth.
Then throw in the MLC angle. I had never known anyone to experience MLC, but after reading about it I am convinced this is also at work here. She spoke from the script in many ways during the past several months, and her actions before and after the separation (new car, sudden, intense interest in exercise, new clothes, new music, concern over wrinkles on her face, talk about running out of time in life, obsession with counting calories and a sudden change toward health food, boredom with job, etc.)
So, we separated at her suggestion. I left the house. I didn't fight it, perhaps deep inside at the time I knew something had to change for me as well. I gave her space for several months, just as she had asked, but every once in a while indicated a willingness to talk. We had a few brief conversations and email exchanges, but no long, sustained talks about the R. She is aware of my going to therapy, and some of the reading I've done, but I've only told her the tip of the iceberg about what I feel I've learned. I followed the advice of "no talks about R," and she never came to me with what she was working on in therapy or any reflection she had done about our R. Pretty much a wall of silence.
I don't feel she ever wanted to really try to work it through. In a fit of MLC rage, a side of her I hadn't seen while married but saw a few times after the separation, she asked for a D. I agreed, for at that point I had grown frustrated with not even getting a hint of willingness to talk or try anything. Now we are in limbo, with neither one of us pushing things forward. I'm not pushing the D; I'm just doing the GAL thing, and doing it pretty well I must say. I haven't seen anything from her yet. She could be working on it, however, and I just can't see it. As I said in my original post, I wonder if I am really at peace with this. We've been together more than 15 years. I wonder if she is as well. I don't know, of course, and so I am trying to resist the urge to guess what might be in her heart.
I know that I will be fine, and that I have used this crisis creatively to learn a great deal. Truthfully, it is one of the best things that has happened to me. I cannot control her, as we all say, but I can control my response to this. I am a better person for having gone through this and learned from it things I wish I had learned a long time ago. But I won't live in the past; better to learn them now than never at all. Life goes forward. We can't change where we've been, only where we go.
