H has always been on the lower side of desire. When we first met in our mid twenties, he was happy to have sex once a week; I did a lot of initiating, always have; and there were times I was turned down. This wasn't any particular red flag to me because once a week was fine.
My female friends thought I had it great! Their SO's were always bothering them for sex--some first thing every morning. How great they thought it would be not to have to deal with that all the time!
Through the years, his desire waned more. We had 4 kids; he began to spend more and more time at the office. He was always tired, always scrambling for his business. We worked out a solution: if he could just get some sleep first, he'd be up to it. If I went to bed late, I could just wake him up some *special* way and I could have what I wanted.
That was okay for several years. It wasn't only me initiating; it was just that way most of the time. He confessed to me that he doesn't really think about sex. It's just never been important to him.
A few years ago I convinced him to go to a sex therapist with me, but we both found her to be a turn off and so we only went one unproductive time.
I also talked him into getting his testosterone checked in his early 40s. He went to the family practitioner who tested him and said he was on the very low side of normal. Nothing to worry about still in the normal range, especially on HMO. No need to look further into that, she told him.
It's at the point now where he no longer has low desire, he has NO desire. He has no answer to why. It isn't that he's not attracted to me. He isn't attracted to anybody. He's actually an unusually good looking man in fantastic shape, and a very nice dresser. Women are attracted to him, and from time to time I witness them coming on to him in subtle ways. It makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time, because they have no idea that their cleavage has no effect on him.
About 7 months ago, I initiated in the middle of the night, and he was virtually unresponsive. The equipment worked, but it was me on top doing all the work, and he barely lifted a hand or opened his eyes. He just didn't bother to be present. After that, I told myself I would not do that again. It had been getting more and more like that; that night was the last straw. He'd have to be the next initiator. He'd have to show me that he wanted it. In 7 months, he hasn't bothered.
I'm a person for whom physical and emotional intimacy are intertwined. Without any physical touch, I feel like a room-mate, or worse yet a housekeeper. I would be delighted with twice a week, but really even just once every two or three weeks would make me happy.
In therapy (his and ours) it's come out that he doesn't feel emotionally connected to me. I agree our connection is in trouble. For me, the lack of physical relationship really hurts my emotional one. Last night he said to me, "why do you keep bringing this back to sex? Sex is such a trivial part of the problem."
On the bright side, I ordered SSW yesterday; and I told H that the only thing I wanted for Valentines Day was for him to make an appt to see a Urologist to test his testosterone and talk about his LD/ND. We have good insurance now so he can go straight there without passing through the primary care phys. It took him a week to find time to make the appt, but he finally did.
Maybe his therapist is right (the therapist told him it was probably not a medical issue, thanks a lot); but if the problem has one of two solutions, which are either drawn out, expensive, and emotionally painful (therapy) or quick and paid for by insurance (a doctor visit and blood draw) then which one would you want to rule out first??
As we've tried to talk about this more in the last few weeks I've been shocked at how little regard he has for a sex life; it's as if he thinks my needs are shallow and bothersome. He thinks our problems are much bigger than this silly trivial thing. I'm trying to get through to him that the emotional component that's suffering in our marriage can--on my side at least--really be helped by the physical component. He says he hears what I'm saying . . . but hearing me is all he's doing.
Just found another chance to write to you. I'm sorry my message was so quick before. Weekends are tough because my hubby is home, he doesn't know I post here, and our computer is in the family room.
My hunch is that it's going to be hard for YOU to convince him that sex is important for each of you as individuals and for your marriage. I'm glad he is in therapy so that he is actively working on himself. Of course, the therapist has to be a good one. Have you tried couples therapy or sex therapy?
Please pick up Passionate Marriage and read that after you read the SSM and SSW books. Maybe your husband would consider reading the books too? They're easy to get through. Passionate Marriage is much more difficult and takes a long time to read, but I found the information so helpful. Not only did it help me feel strong, it helped me to articulate what I want in our marriage as well as note some things about myself that I never realized.
Again, welcome to the board.
I hope DanceQueen contributes to your thread soon. She has been down quite a road herself, and she knows how to guide us newbies into a productive mindset.
HI there Moonlocks....we're all sorry your find yourself here....but maybe there is hope....
One thing that stood out in your post to me was this part: "As we've tried to talk about this more in the last few weeks I've been shocked at how little regard he has for a sex life; it's as if he thinks my needs are shallow and bothersome. He thinks our problems are much bigger than this silly trivial thing."
If you read a lot of the posts here, you will find a common theme in them among the LD folks....and the thing is that, they don't understand why lack of sex is a problem, because FOR THEM, it is not a problem.
To HD people or to just average-level of desire people, lack of sex IS a problem. We (myself being HD) simply cannot understand at first glance HOW someone could see lack of sex and not see a problem there. But over time, with lots of reading and understanding, you can start to paint for yourself a picture of how the other side feels - the LD/ND side.
To put it as simply as possible, an LD/ND person does not see any significant value in sex. The release is just not that big of a deal, and the emotional connection isn't that big of a deal, either.
LD/ND people have their own reasons for being LD and those reasons can really make a difference in whether a couple can over come their problems or not.
For instance, a traumatic event within the marriage can cause LD. Having been molested as a child can cause LD. Or having low testosterone can cause LD. Each of these three "reasons" for LD will have different success rates for the married couple.
In your case, what you are describing sounds like just true and simple LD....and unfortunately, this is the hardest type of LD to deal with. Usually people who are just LD with no trauma or serious hormonal problm, and who have been LD with all their previous partners....well, these are the types of LD who are the least likely to really "get it" and realize that they need to step up to the plate.
For people with trauma, past sexual abuse, or a hormonal problem, then at least there is "something" to begin with...a place to start the healing from.
But for a truly LD/ND person, well, where do you start?
The answer to this question, one which I mentioned on Lucky's first thread down here, is this: the place to start is by the HD person realizing and understanding that there is nothing wrong with their spouse. There is nothing wrong with being LD/ND. Being LD/ND would not be an issue between two spouses who are both LD/ND...and therefore, the only real problem is that you two are not matched up in sex drives. But this doesn't mean that you are right and your H is "wrong". What it means is that you've got a long battle ahead of you....
I hope you do a lot of reading on this board...and get through SSW....and then let us know how you are doing!
Oh also Moolocks, can you describe for us what your H would say the problems you two have? You said that he feels that your problems are much bigger than simply lack of sex. Can you tell us what he thinks those bigger problems are? There is a chance here that if you and he can work out those "other" problems, the sex will improve along the way...
Here's what scares me. I asked him to see a therapist in November, because I felt that he is work-addicted and I told him maybe he needed to find out why he strived to fill every waking moment with productivity--what was it about idle time, or just relaxing, that scared him? What was he running from?
So he found himself a therapist. A couple weeks later I heard the first "I'm questioning everything." Maybe he was unhappy with our marriage before, somewhere deep down, but none of it came out until he started seeing the therapist. Now I feel like a grenade has gone off in the middle of our marriage. The therapist started him asking questions. For good or bad, I'm not sure.
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Have you tried couples therapy or sex therapy?
His therapist suggested that we get couples therapy, and so we've gone twice so far. It has been awful. The fellow clearly sympathizes with me, but at the same time says things like "some people just aren't meant to be married" (speaking of H) and "monogamy made sense 5000 years ago when people only lived to 40, but maybe not so much any more." And H just sits there and doesn't say anything. He is the one who brought me to the therapist, and I know he wants to make things work (or at least I really think he does.) I try to address the work addiction and the MLC, but it comes back to more of a 'he's-just-not-that-into-you-and how-does-that-make-you-feel' conversation. Then I spend the next three days crying and H says he doesn't know how he feels or why he feels the way he does.
So needless to say, I'm not too impressed with the therapists we've come across so far. We did try sex therapy about 5 years ago, but it was really awkward and we only went once.
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Please pick up Passionate Marriage and read that after you read the SSM and SSW books. Maybe your husband would consider reading the books too?
Oh also Moolocks, can you describe for us what your H would say the problems you two have? You said that he feels that your problems are much bigger than simply lack of sex. Can you tell us what he thinks those bigger problems are? There is a chance here that if you and he can work out those "other" problems, the sex will improve along the way...
DQ
He feels that we have lost our emotional conection. It makes me crazy, because I'm right here. He wants to connect. I want to connect. I'm reaching out--so connect with me already!
I've been trying harder in the last week to figure out what his emotional needs are, and trying to meet them. I've also been cleaning out the whole house (I'm traditionally the disorganized one here) and spending more time asking him about his day. In the past--since his work addiction--I haven't particularly wanted to ask about his day. I think I did withdraw to some extent. I'm angry that he works and works and works until there is nothing left for me. However, I'm laying that aside for now because I'm in emergency mode.
His theraist told him that he thought the lack of desire was most likely related to what he's going through now. Maybe a little bit, but this is by no means a new problem. At least he's seeing a doctor to rule out hormonal issues this week. He'll do that for me. I just don't get why he won't make the 8 inch journey from his side of the bed to mine.
I'm afraid your couples therapist doesn't sound "pro marriage," like Michele Weiner Davis and Schnarch and others are. That scares me a bit.
The 8 inches between you two in bed could be filled with all kinds of tough-to-penetrate-sh*t like resentment, "not wanting to want," childhood issues (abandonment, abuse), shame... As soon as the issues are identified, it MIGHT be much easier for you two to cross the chasm.
One horrifying question I hate to ask: Is there any reason for you to suspect an affair?
It's good that he is "questioning everything." Don't be too afraid of that, because it could mean that he is now ready to figure out who he is so that he can become his very best self. Growth HURTS, but it is a marvelous thing.
Read, read, read. And post, post, post. It will get you through the tough days!
I'm afraid your couples therapist doesn't sound "pro marriage," like Michele Weiner Davis and Schnarch and others are. That scares me a bit.
It's very scary. He says things like, 'When I listen to you two, sometimes I don't know if I should be mediating a separation or getting you two to marry eachother again' and 'I'm not sure you ever had a marriage.' We absolutely had a marriage, and I think those are really dangerous things to say when one partner is wobbling. H wants to reconnect, he just doesn't know how, plus he's work-addicted (again IMHO)and in an MLC. I feel like in therapy we're just dredging things up and then being told maybe we shouldn't be married because we're not compatible. We do have differences, but that doesn't mean we can't have a partnership.
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The 8 inches between you two in bed could be filled with all kinds of tough-to-penetrate-sh*t like resentment, "not wanting to want," childhood issues (abandonment, abuse), shame... As soon as the issues are identified, it MIGHT be much easier for you two to cross the chasm.
Sigh . . . yes. I have wondered all of this. He's Catholic, filled with sexual guilt? Spent too much time with priests as a young boy with no father? Married to his mother in spirit (he grew up as the little man of the house)? Maybe even homosexual and too Catholic to admit it?
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One horrifying question I hate to ask: Is there any reason for you to suspect an affair?
I've learned in my 43 years that pigs can occasionally fly, and every now and then, it snows in hell. But I'd have to say no, unless we can say his mistress is his job. He needs to be constantly productive, even at home. His therapist pointed out to him (thanks a lot) that we don't have fun together anymore because H couldn't remember the last time we'd gone out and had fun. (my response to that is we have 4 kids, and can't have fun unless we have time, and if he can't ever sit down and stop working or doing chores, there is no opportunity!) Anyway, I managed to arrange for us to spend several hours together alone Sunday to go out to lunch and shop for new family room chairs. Fine, he said reluctantly (no doubt envisioning how this would eat up his day.) But he wanted me to drive, so that he could bring work in the car. Gahhh.
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It's good that he is "questioning everything." Don't be too afraid of that, because it could mean that he is now ready to figure out who he is so that he can become his very best self. Growth HURTS, but it is a marvelous thing.
To update, I emailed H this morning and told him I thought that our MC is doing more harm than good. I haven't heard back if he agrees yet.
However, a friend called me today with some kids'-school related business. I had to apologize for not being on top of it because I'm been really distracted. She wanted to know if I was ok, and since she is a therapist herself, she saw right through my feeble "fine" and asked what she could do to help me.
I have not told a single person about this, aside from the MC and my posts, but I broke down and told her about the therapist we're seeing and what's been going on. She agreed that the current MC's approach is not what we need at all; she knows him from years ago and was surprised by the things he's said to us. She knows another therapist who has a totally different attitude, one who is committed to helping marriages rather than just helping individuals who are unhappy in marriages (i.e. there's the door if you want out.)
She's going to call that therapist and see if she's taking patients, then get back to me later today.
