What does your W want? Does she like working? Has she always wanted to be a SAHM? If she isn't really interested in being a SAHM, she may not be happy in that role. If she is unhappy, your SL isn't going to improve. She might be happier getting a different job that doesn't consume so much of her time.
I don't like the job description idea. You are partners in your family and in your household. It just wouldn't sit well with me to receive it, even if it were done in a lighthearted way. I'm sure she could craft one for you, too... How would it feel to receive that?
The most important thing, I think, is to first be sure that she is enthusiastic about being a SAHM.
As far as whether she wants it, I would say that yes, she definitely would prefer to not work, especially for this company, but the bigger question is whether she wants to not just "not work" per se, but to really embrace the role of SAHM. Not positive there and if we are not on the same page with the expectations of what that involves, I see conflict as the likely outcome.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
So, last night didn't go well. When my wife returned home at about 9:15, I had a bath ready (already bubbled and everything), cheese and crackers next to the tub and a good bottle of wine opened and poured (and I was in a robe with hers ready on the bed). She is off today, so I thought we could talk in the tub and she would want to relax after a long few days (plus, I deserve it after a tough three days as well).
Anyway, she walked in, checked her mail, then logged onto her work computer. She took a sip of wine and said she wasn't sure if she wanted to do a tub, did some other work while I waited in our family room, and emerged from the bedroom at about 10 with a toothbrush in her mouth and pjs on (never having even gone into the bathroom that has the tub (in our finished basement, long story). I said, "what is this, I have been waiting for you to do a tub, which is all ready?" and she said she was going to bed and I should do it without her. Not, "I'm really sorry, I know you did a lot to get everything ready, but I am really tired" or something along those lines.
Instead of just pouting, I went into the bedroom and told her that if she wanted to go to bed, fine, but that the way she handled it was really inconsiderate and why. She wasn't happy and had some comment back, but I felt really good that I said it. I didn't backpedal on anything (or take the bath) but drained it, cleaned up, and sat down to at least enjoy my glass of wine.
I am not only pleased I didn't fall into NMMNG, but that I think it was important to say as we head into a discussion about expectations if she stays at home.
Thoughts/suggestions?
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Um...hmmm....I kind of think you went too far the other way on NMMNG here. I mean, she didn't get home from work until after 9:00 and if I were you, I would have assumed she would have wanted to go straight to bed, and the fact that you were cranky at her because that is what she wanted would have royally pissed me off if I was her.
I think it was kind of an odd move, given how late she got home.
My thought was that she is not quitting her job, she is accepting a different job and in that job I will have expectations, such as truly partnering with me on improving the marriage and our sl, taking good care of herself by working out, becoming more active in the kids education, including spending more time at school, etc. I wasn't a wuss about it either, so thanks for all the NMMNG tips.
Just keep in mind, CB, that there is a clear difference between leading the relatioship and bossing/supervising: women, in general, want a husband who leads, not one who is "controlling." You are still partners and equals, not supervisor and subordinate, and if you try to put yourself in the role of your wife's "job manager" it will backfire on you, in my opinion.
I made the same sort of mistake when my wife first became a SAHM 17 years ago. A part of me resented the fact that she got to stay at home on an endless string of what to me were "days off," while I continued to bust my tail on a long-hour, high-stress job. So I started checking what she did, critiquing her day, and in essence, started picking up all of the same old domineering habits that my father had (and that my mother resented terribly). Wrong move on my part.
Nowadays, I treat my wife's ability to be a SAHM (if *she* so desires) as my gift to her. Stop. It doesn't come with subordinate strings. No covert contract. She's free to do with her days what she likes, and I don't micromanage it -- I trust her to do her job while I do mine. If something gets out of hand or some responsibility of hers doesn't get met *then* we'll talk about it, but the important thing there is to be part of the solution -- step in and help right the situation -- again, partners...not supervisor/subordinate.
Also, it is essential that you keep making vital contributions to the management of the household -- cleaning, cooking, bill paying, and so forth. You can't just dust off your hands of it, tell her "You got it, now!", and focus solely on your own career (a trap many men fall into). The truth is: no one likes to do laundry and clean toilets, so everyone needs to chip in and do that stuff and spread the discomfort. If, instead, you make her feel like she's been reduced to your maid and cook, with your daily inspection to occur when you come in the door each evening --> how loved, cherished, and taken care of is she going to feel? Not.
If you honestly think that without your daily supervision, she will just sit around in her PJ's all day, eating bon-bons snd watching Oprah, then don't make the offer. You have to be able to trust her, and trust that BOTH of you will continue to contribute to the family in your own way.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Thanks DQ. You may be right but my thought was that she was going to be able to sleep in and it wasn't like I set up a ten-mile training run, but I understand your point and appreciate it.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I made the same sort of mistake when my wife first became a SAHM 17 years ago. A part of me resented the fact that she got to stay at home on an endless string of what to me were "days off," while I continued to bust my tail on a long-hour, high-stress job. So I started checking what she did, critiquing her day, and in essence, started picking up all of the same old domineering habits that my father had (and that my mother resented terribly). Wrong move on my part.
Nowadays, I treat my wife's ability to be a SAHM (if *she* so desires) as my gift to her. Stop. It doesn't come with subordinate strings. No covert contract. She's free to do with her days what she likes, and I don't micromanage it -- I trust her to do her job while I do mine. If something gets out of hand or some responsibility of hers doesn't get met *then* we'll talk about it, but the important thing there is to be part of the solution -- step in and help right the situation -- again, partners...not supervisor/subordinate. [quote=Bagheera]
B: Thanks and I hear what you are saying, I really do. I think my instincts were telling me that you are correct on this and that is why I posted my thoughts on the board to begin with because deep down I knew this to be true. My question to you though is whether the reason you are able to view it now as a gift and your wife as your partner is because you have made so much progress in other areas and those resentments are gone? I still struggle with the resentments and lack of trust that things will really improve and I think that leads me to try to micromanage a situation like this, which ends up sabotaging it anyway. Is there a suggestion you would have for how to reasonably convey expectations, but then let it go? Or do you think it is better just to present it as a gift for her to take and deal with issues later as they arise?
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
My question to you though is whether the reason you are able to view it now as a gift and your wife as your partner is because you have made so much progress in other areas and those resentments are gone? I still struggle with the resentments and lack of trust that things will really improve and I think that leads me to try to micromanage a situation like this, which ends up sabotaging it anyway. Is there a suggestion you would have for how to reasonably convey expectations, but then let it go? Or do you think it is better just to present it as a gift for her to take and deal with issues later as they arise?
You put your finger on the answer --> you recognize that trying to control and manage your spouse's behavior ultimately sabotages what you'd like to achieve, because your spouse will quite naturally fight and rebel against your efforts at control (regardless of whether your intent is in their best interest or not). It's human nature...YOU'D react the same way to a wife trying to control YOU.
I have found that two of the hardest lessons in changing a bad relationship into a good one are:
(1) The only person you can ever change is YOURSELF.
(2) In order to get something (from your partner), your best approach is often to stop grabbing for it, relax, and let it come to you (if it will).
So far, we've been asking you to step up to the plate and take risks, pursue your wife, be more assertive, stick your neck out and take a chance at rejection...over and over again. And we applaud your efforts -- well done.
Now, the second and harder part is to respond appropriately when the rejections occur --> I *still* suck at this much of the time. When the Integrated Man's wife passes up the romantic bubble-bath idea, he's able to be understanding ("She's had a long, hard day, and at this stage of our recovery, she is most likely to see it as *pressure* to perform, rather than relaxing."), and is able to see it more as HER lost opportunity to be with *him*, rather than the other way around ("Alright then. Your loss, babe."). You took a chance and offered an invitation, but she brushed it off, so you shrug and move on to other opportunities.
Ultimately, CB, that's ALL you can do: make changes to yourself, and offer her invitations to join you. The rest is up to her.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
