Just saw H tonight. We met and had a nice dinner. We had great positive conversation and joked around and had a nice time. Had to wait a while for a table so had quite long time to talk and catch. I think I did well in this time to be fun, friendly, positive and upbeat without giving too much information. On the walk back,nearing in on arriving to 'my' house H got very quiet.
I asked what he was thinking about. H started to talk cryptic like and seemed frustrated stumbling over his words. In the end he came out with talking about a friend of ours who I thought may be a possible OW to him.
He said he felt the need to talk to me about this as we had agreed to be honest with each other. He said they were v good friends and he didn't know what was between them but that he may want to find out. He said he'd not said anything too much to her yet but that there had been some 'conversations' about things. but he also said he didnt know how she felt for him and that it was all v stressful and confusing since they work together n he is kind of her boss and bc of our sitch. He said he feels that part of it may be that she helped him thru a tough emotional time (when he left me) and that may be what he feels but that he is thinking about finding out. Said he doesn't know what he is going to do but felt he promised to be honest with me so felt the need to tell me. Said he was thinking about maybe going for a few dinners or something to see how things go.
I did keep calm and talked about what he brought up. Don't know how well I did regarding DB as i was thrown off and things seemed to go out the window a bit.
I asked how would this be different from the dinners, movies and other time they spent together up until now. He said they have just been hanging out as friends.
I feel like they have been growing closer since before he even left me, but he assures me that is not the case. He even said he was a little annoyed that I saw this happening before him(last time we discussed R and possible OW I mentioned this and said I can see it happening, before I got DR) He said they just get along really well.
I said that if he did decide to do that I didn't see it as right bc we are still married and that that is a commitment I value. H said we are separated and he doesn't see us as married anymore so he feels it is ok. I said I would see it as an affair. (don't know if I should have said this in hindsight, it could sound a bit threatening?) H of course totally disagreed.
We discussed this further, probably too far as I had said my peace and should have left it at that. But got drawn in, at least I was calm and collected and honest.
H said he doesn't want to get divorced and then said you have to be separated a year anyway. So I asked where he found this information and he said a friend. H then became suspicious and asked why had I been to see a L? I said no. H said the only reason he would want a D is if he wanted to marry someone else and that is the last thing he wanted to do right now. H also said we have no kids, no house etc so had nothing to split or to worry about in that sense.
H said he is happy on his own even if that's not what I want to hear. H commented that he wanted to make sure he was ok on his own not just jump into another relationship. Said he has been on his own 5 months(he only moved out 3 months ago so I don't agree with this but said I didn't want to argue about time frames bc it doesn't matter)
H started to bring things up about how we, then said at least he felt he got married for the wrong reasons, etc and back to his story line. I tried to validate what he was saying and say that I do hear what he is telling me. I said I can see how he felt the way he did before we separated regarding the problems we were having. We didn't communicate about these problems until he was leaving. H said it was too late now, etc. he sees it as completely over. that's it, he wants to draw a line under it all.
He said he wanted to tell me how he felt about OW in case anything did evolve there as he felt it right to be honest. I had said about possibly speaking to her as we used to be friends and I thought we still were. He was very worried about this and asked me not to speak to her. Said he didn't know where things were going and they hadn't talked about this yet and didn't want me to say anything to her. He kept saying please don't say anything to her.
H said nobody at his work knows about this. I mentioned they might bc of comments made to me before he even left me. (prob shouldn't of said this, but don't know what came over me) H said about being worried he would get her fired. He asked me really worried like again to please don't tell people they work with his personal stuff and please don't go posting on facebook or anything comments to anyone about her or to her.
I said things we talk about are between you and me that I don't plan to tell friends our conversations. But that I would not lie to anyone and that I may speak to OW if I felt I needed to, but that I still would not discuss his and my conversations to her as that is btw us.
I feel this conversation went on way too long. H had to leave to catch train home and even as he stood in the door way was continuing to talk about things. I know I was part of this too as I engaged. I did not end things first and should have.
H ended by saying he doesn't want to hurt me anymore but knows either way I will probably still be hurt and he wants to make it the least he can. H also kept saying he thinks I am being very good about all of this. (he was worried I would be screaming at him) and that he had not made any decision about what he was going to do regarding OW as things were complicated (duh of course they are you fool!! you are married!) and again please don't say anything to anyone (also insinuated this included his family).
In a way I almost feel relieved bc I am no longer wondering what is going on with them 2. But also besides their close friendship nothing has happened as of now. I have always said I would rather know one way or the other. I would have thought I'd be breaking down about now after this confession but I am not. I feel hurt but at least I know what I am dealing with.
I got thru the conversation but OMG I don't know what to do next!
Me-27 H-28 M-2.5 yrs T-8.5 yrs No kids B 1/09 S 2/09
Oh boy, hopeful, I'm sorry this is happening. From what I read, this is what I'm guessing is going on: He is having an affair, and has been for awhile (probably with that lady at work). He is trying to get things all nice before divorcing you. He has separated from you (making it "ok" to date in his mind), and has talked to others about divorce (knows you have to be separated a year). He told you about this OW in case you hear something from someone else. I'm sure OW wants to be more "open" now to see his commitment to her.
He's scared, though. He doesn't want anyone to know about his "secret". It is an affair.
I can give you advice based on my own experience as being the one that had the affair. The only way my H could have stopped me and had me work on the marriage at that point would be to tell me that if he found out I was having an affair while separated that he would tell my family and others. And, if he thought I was having an affair (like you do with your H), he would give me the choice : COme home and work on the marriage, or he would not lie to anyone and that means he would tell others what he believes to be going on. He would have also had to reassure me that there was help out there, and that there would be changes. He would have had to tell me that there was Retrouvaille, counselors, and books. Also, getting people from my church involved would have stopped me as well.
Right now he believes he doesn't love you, and until he realizes what is going on with himself (by reading books, etc.) he will continue to believe this. While being with the OW, those beginning "in love" feelings will kick in all the time and cause him to truly believe it more and more.
He cannot work on the marriage with you while being with an OW. That's the bottom line.
The other option would be to let him "play it out", have his cake and eat it too, and let his conscience hopefully prevail. Hope that he sees what this "relationship" with the OW really is, and see what he is missing without you. Problem is, if he is with the OW it could take a longgggg time to see those things. For me, it kind of happened this last way, and it took about 3 years off and on.
thank you WDID for your input. I appreciate the insight from your experience.
H had made it clear that he does not want to work on M so does not see that as a option.
H also thinks I need to stay married to him even if we are separated to stay in the country, so said to me if I need that he is happy to keep it like that. (I don't really think this is the only way.) I moved to this country to be with H and for his work and have now built a life for myself, have a good job, etc. He said our M is only a piece of paper.
He has said about being friends but that he doesn't know if that will work bc we are too close right now, things are too fresh and that we may need time apart before that can happen.
I haven't really decided what to do yet. I feel like I need to talk to H more about things and what is happening. I don't know if that is the right move tho.
Me-27 H-28 M-2.5 yrs T-8.5 yrs No kids B 1/09 S 2/09
I agree with WDID's analysis of your sitch. Yes, the gall of him to ask for your permission and promise (because that's what it is, let me do this and pls don't make a huge fuss) and then to say that he doesn't want the OW to get into trouble with work or with his family?!?
You are a better woman than me for keeping your cool, I'll tell you that.
I think your H needs a really really good IC right away. He is throwing himself into the deep end and he doesn't even know it! He thinks his life would be better after getting involved with OW because of all the endorphins! You saw it coming, you saw that they were getting too close, you kept close tabs but he still left.
You know, I did what WDID suggested exactly. But it didn't help in my sitch but your H is a different person, it might help you. I think your H doesn't really know what he wants, he is looking hard for happiness but at all the wrong places. See if you can get him some help before messing up his life even more.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
PM thanks for that, I will think about how I may be able to bring this up.
H was having some other problems as he left as well, things that happened in his childhood regarding his father leaving, and things about himself and issues with death and being alone. H came to me 4 weeks after he moved out(I hadn't seen him in that time) and started crying about how bad he felt and how hard things were. He said he thought about talking to someone (IC) about things but didnt know if he would. I tried to support that decision. But since that night when asked about it he says he decided not to and was doing better and didn't feel he needed that now. I don't know how to talk him into getting help.
H admits he always had a thing about not wanting to be alone and stated this is why after he left he made sure he was alone and not jumping into another relationship. but I said its only been 3 months 'alone' and all the while you had regular meetings(even if as friends) with OW. so when were you alone?
One of the main points he made when he left was that he wanted to be on his own for a while and be happy with himself.
when you say you did what WDID suggested is that the confronting suggestion?
gosh what a mess my head is in.
Last edited by hopeful_cb; 05/04/0903:13 PM.
Me-27 H-28 M-2.5 yrs T-8.5 yrs No kids B 1/09 S 2/09
Your H saying that he was alone is really a misnomer. He was NOT alone. He can't be alone, that is why he is seeking another relationship. He is looking for something and he thinks he can find it in another R. He cannot, it would only be another distraction from his real problems. That is why an very very good counsellor is essential to true recovery.
Men doesn't like to ask for help because in their culture it means that they are 'failures'. If you can get over that thinking, maybe he will go to a counsellor. You know your H best, think about what kind of language would help him get over this preconception.
He is not 'happy with himself', that much is clear. Don't let him say it to you but you don't need to buy into it. If he was truly 'happy with himself' then you don't look for it outside of marriage with another person whose career that you may or maynot wreck. Your man is confused. He is thinking with his pants, not his logic. Accept it for now. He is looking for an escape from his pain and potential OW makes him feel good right now. That is why you are DB'ing, to make him feel good and not to blow up at him, right?
Well, he is used to your kind of 'high' as any marriage would come down from the excitment of first love so you are at a disadvantage.
What you need to do is to push out the old memories of an unhappy M with new images of you and him happy together. So I would suggest, plan something that is not serious, something fun. Don't know if he would go out with you, can you make up an excuse to have some fun together??
If you push those negative images out of his head, you will have a shot.
Yes, I did what WDID said in regards to confrontation. My H called my bluff, he left me, he went to see a IC (thank goodness) and he still won't come back and continues on A with OW. So now I am waiting for the endorphins to calm down and for him to come out of his fog and stop thinking with his pants. It's a slow hard slog. But who said Marriage was easy? I certainly don't think so, only WAS think so, apparently.
Me:39 H:40 S:9 D:7 First Bomb ONS:June 07 Second Bomb OW: March 08 Separated: March 08 M:15 yrs T:18 yrs H deep into A with OW Achieved ACCEPTANCE May 30, 09
I think I see your points in what you have said. Thanks you for your strong and clear words. This has given me some perspective and knocked me out of thinking about the shock and to begin looking at what action can I take to improve things.
I think I need to have a discussion with H regarding IC. Does anyone have tips on how to pick a good one that follows similar philosophy to DR? I don't live in US and last time I tried to search for an IC that did anything like solution oriented and pro-marriage work in my area I couldn't find anything.
I also feel further discussion is needed regarding what H is doing or has done. Is this just me being too focused on unanswered questions? should I do this? From what I read in DR it says not to bring up R talk or OW. But I feel like what was said last night left me with so many questions and many things unclear.
I think finding a way to do something fun together is a great idea. I am thinking about how to propose this. Should I go about it in a completely just as friends lets do something fun sort of way? maybe that part doesn't matter. I don't know if he will agree to going out with me, I think he wouldn't if I put it to him as a 'date.'
Last night we did have a really good time talking and joking around and had a nice dinner but then the fun factor disappeared when he brought up R & OW talk (obviously!) I hope that doesn't overshadow the fun we actually did have when we were together.
I need to brainstorm ideas of fun things I can propose that will not seem too serious and without any pressure. I won't know if he'll agree to go unless I try.
Me-27 H-28 M-2.5 yrs T-8.5 yrs No kids B 1/09 S 2/09
Ok, so I did see H on Wed, didn't expect to at all but when I checked phone at end of work day he had made several attempts to contact and left txt msgs saying can he come round tonight and help me with computer.
So after arranging a time(I had plans right after work & didn't cancel) he did come over.
It was all very pleasant, upbeat and friendly. We chatted had a look at some house stuff and then he asked if I wanted to grab a bite to eat with him so I did. We chatted more and went for a short walk after.
I didn't bring up our R or OW, so I guess that made it go well. I find it really hard to just talk to H like nothing is going on?? Is this the right thing to do?
I did ask him before we said our good bye's if he would like to do something fun sometime, and he said yes that would be good. We didn't set a day to do that yet tho.
Why would he even bother(or want) to come round and see me as he is 'dating' OW?
Me-27 H-28 M-2.5 yrs T-8.5 yrs No kids B 1/09 S 2/09
Why would he bother to come around and see you while dating the OW?
Probably to feel less guilty. As long as W is fine, he is fine. He is also having his cake, and eating it,too. He has a girlfriend and a wife, and wife seems "ok". I wouldn't do anything that'a like a date with your H as long as he is with the OW (eating out, taking walks, etc.). He's not feeling any of the consequences of losing you. That's just my opinion, though, it may not be DB principles.
